As scary as it was, I just went out and asked. Admittedly, one of them was a really simple and easy ask. Pretty much sent an email, gave them some samples, and they were like, oh yeah, we'd love to have you. And that was it. The other one took me nearly a year. I really tried and I'm still in the process of asking a couple more and it's hard work, but you have to just kind of push yourself and just go for it. And what's the worst that could happen? They can say no, but at least you've tried. I'm
Becca Pountney, wedding business, marketing expert, speaker, and blogger. And you're listening to the wedding pros who are ready to grow podcast. I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level. If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what you love, then you're in the right place.
Let's get going with today's episode. Today I'm chatting with Krissy Quinton, founder of Primrose Cakes and owner of the Baking Business Lounge. Krissy has been making cakes since 2016 and is now helping newer cake makers get everything together to launch their own businesses. From environmental health inspections to food hygiene certificates, she's got you covered.
When Krissy contacted me earlier this year about the Food Standard Agency's new guidance for using flours on cakes, I decided it was a great opportunity to get her on the podcast to share her story. Krissy, welcome to the podcast! Hello, thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. I'm really interested to get into some of this guidelines and guidance later on in the episode. But before then, on my podcast, I always like to take people back to the start.
So I'd love to hear a little bit about your own journey. Take us back to pre your business. What were you doing in life? What was going on work wise? And how did you start making cakes in the first place?
Well, I actually started my life or my first career was a teacher. I've actually just given that up this year. So I was a teacher for 13 years. And when I first started teaching catering lessons, I realized that I could make a mean cake. So that's how I started. obsession suddenly started, realizing that then I had a massive interest in cake decorating.
So I went right in there with all the cake decorating magazines, with all the freebies, and just went to town, basically, giving away cake to family and friends, and getting so much good feedback that I was like, I think this is for me at no point at that stage.
Did I think I'm going to quit teaching, but I just kind of ran it alongside, but I was actually a hobby baker for a good five years before I then realized that, okay, I've got to register if I want to do this fully and become legit and start charging and become an actual cake business. So yeah, it took a little while to sort of become a business and take that plunge.
And then, yeah, 2016, my daughter was About six months old, my first child, and just thought, that's it, I'm going to do it, I'm going to register. And I happened to know an EHO, asked him for some advice and said, you know, what does it actually take to do it? And he's like, actually, it's really easy, you're a low risk business, so we wouldn't, you know, give you a really horrible inspection as such, but obviously you need one. And yeah, just went for it. So that's how it sort of started.
Okay. So you did it alongside your teaching career for quite a long time. I love the fact you say you're just teaching catering lessons and you realize you can make an amazing cake. I can tell you, I have a reputation. for making the worst cakes in the world. I am so bad at baking and you make it sound really easy, but actually there's a huge amount of skill involved, especially when it comes to the like decorating side of things.
Have you ever had any formal training or have you taught yourself along the way?
No, all self taught. So it might've just, it was just a recipe that I was teaching the students at the time. And just, Yeah, it just worked. And then from then on, it was all about sort of YouTube tutorials, things like that. All those magazines would have a tutorial in there, or I'd just play around pretty much. Since then, I mean, since I started a business, I have paid for people to teach me certain aspects, but I've never done an official qualification or a course on it.
No, but you make an amazing cake. I've seen some of your cakes online and they are beautifully decorated. And I can tell you that no amount of YouTube videos or magazines that I read would ever allow me to create a cake that good. So you've clearly got a bit of a skill. So you decided to go proper into the business after hobby baking and If I'm right, did you start with celebration cakes and how did you get your first customers?
Yes, celebration cakes was definitely one of those things all about the birthdays and the kids birthdays. I was inundated with kids birthdays, typical character cakes, all that sort of thing. But what also really hit off was doing smash cakes for photographers. So when they're having their first birthdays, I was the cake creator for about two different photographers. So because of that, I really had to be registered.
So did your first customers mostly come from word of mouth? Was it people locally to you? Was it people passing on your information or were you doing any paid advertising at that time?
No paid advertising. I did create a Facebook page. Not that I was confident enough to spread it around in like the selling pages or anything. But yeah, I think it was word of mouth mainly, sort of friends, friends started inquiring. You know, my friend would say, Oh, Krissy makes a cake, you know, for you. She'll do that for the birthday of whoever. And yeah, that's it. Word of mouth and it still is now. is, is the big thing for me.
And at what point did weddings enter the equation? Because there's quite a big difference between making a cake for a child's birthday or a cake for someone to smash up in a photo shoot to the pressure of creating this cake for someone's wedding day. So at what point did that kind of start for you?
So my first ever wedding cake that I made was 2000 and I want to say 17, it might be 18. I've got to think back now. But that was for a friend and colleague. I didn't really have the confidence to do them because I knew there was a lot more pressure. That scared me. And that was quite a simple cake as well. But as time passed, As that confidence sort of built up, I was like, yeah, this is something I really like to do.
I decided that for 2020, I want it to be weddings only because that is just where my passion was starting to lie. And as you can probably imagine, 2020 came and destroyed the whole industry, basically. So I ended up spending that year. Just working on my business, my branding and my marketing just to make sure that I was ready for the following year to then just be right. No more novelty cakes, no more birthdays. I just want to do the weddings and work with venues and other suppliers.
And so now you're basically fully wedding cakes when it comes to the cake side of your business. Where do you find that most of your work comes from now?
I actually get quite a good lot of traffic through my website. So Google's working for me at the moment, touch wood it stays, but also still that word of mouth. So I'm now starting to get the cycle of the sisters or the bridesmaids of a wedding cake, of a wedding that I've done a cake for. And now being a recommended supplier for two venues as well is really helpful because it's like building up that reputation. And yeah, I've got quite a decent amount of sort of followers on like Instagram.
I get a few inquiries through there. So they just sort of the main points for me.
Now, I know that there'll be a lot of cake makers listening that are desperate to get recommended at venues. So I always like to ask people about their processes because I don't think there is a one size fits all when it comes to how you get recommended by venues. And I find the best way for us all to learn is to find out everyone's different experiences. So if you're willing to share, I'd love to know that the two venues that you're recommended at, how did you manage to get on their list?
I asked as scary as it was. I just went out and asked. Admittedly, one of them was a really simple and easy ask, pretty much sent an email, gave them some samples and they were like, Oh yeah, we'd love to have you. And that was it. The other one took me nearly a year. Wow. I really tried. And I sort of left the gap did a wedding fair there and then asked again and still nothing happened to do another wedding fair sort of those few months later. And they then asked me.
So that it was a completely different story and I'm still in the process of asking a couple more and it's hard work But you have to just kind of push yourself and just go for it and what's the worst that could happen? They can say no, but at least you've tried.
Yeah, absolutely I always say that you might get a no but you're no further back than you were and if you don't ask you might never Get a yes either. So you might as well ask and put yourself out there and The thing is you say, Oh, I just did a simple ask for the first one, but actually you didn't. You did more than that because you did send them samples and you made an effort.
I'm sure there was a bit of relationship building going on there as well, because I always say people tend to not just want a cold email from anyone saying, can you be, can I be on your recommended supply list? But actually when we go above and beyond, go to a wedding fair. supply them with some cake, give them some samples and be a nice person, it's going to help us along the way. So I'm sure that's been your experience as well.
So when you look back over your career in cakes so far, what would you say have been some of the biggest successes, some of the things you're most proud of along the way?
Well, I'll mention the suppliers list again, because that I never, ever thought that would be a thing for me. I think the other thing is that I'm now fully self employed with it. There was always an element of that dream, but going from being employed to self employed is such a big jump. It's, it's a very scary gap, and I'm so proud of myself for doing that this year.
There's a few other sort of other circumstances and reasons of why, but yeah, that just, it made me feel like I've actually built my business up so much that I can rely on that now. She's amazing. And I just, I think, cause I just love working with those couples and other suppliers. I get, I've got quite a good network in the area. It just feels good. Feels like a really good community.
Yeah, well I think it's the best industry to work in in the world. But I might be a little bit biased but I definitely think weddings are the place for us all to be working. Let's talk about that a little bit then because it is a massive jump to go from teaching to be on a, you know, a permanent wage. to suddenly going to being fully self employed. And I know it's a dream that lots of people have. It's a stage people want to get to, but there is an element of risk.
There is an element of taking that leap and it does feel scary for people. So how have you navigated that? How have you managed to kind of get through that? And looking back, do you have any regrets?
I have no regrets. I will quite happily say that. I think it's just, it got to a point in my cake business where I thought, you know what, if I stopped. My day job next month, would I be able to survive the next year? And it was a yes. Once I'd handed in my notice on my teaching job, which is quite a lengthy notice, it's a whole term, I was then able to pull in whatever business I wanted once I knew my leaving date.
So, and that's the one thing I would say is that it, it's really pushed me, knowing that I was leaving one job and having just, My self employment is that I can do what I like with my business. Now I can push as much as I want into it. I haven't got to worry about whether I'm working that day or whether I've got year 11 reports due that week. So I can't do a wedding that week, that sort of stuff that it just all disappeared. So I could just focus on business and that is all I do.
Yeah, exactly. And it is, it's so difficult because it is a big step and it is hard to lose that regular income, but it is a chicken and egg situation because when you've got a full time job, you don't have the time or energy to put into the business. So it kind of, it's hard to grow the business as big as the job, unless you give up the job first. So it is a really difficult decision to make.
And I know that financially, I'm sure you'd be You put some things in place, as you said, to make sure that you could survive. And as I always say to people, you can always go back. Like, I think we feel like it's this massive thing when we say goodbye to a permanent job and then become fully self employed. But ultimately, if we needed to, we can always go get a job again. Like we're not closing that door forever.
And I think I always say that to myself, even now, after all these years in business, if I have a moment where I think, What am I going to do if no one buys this? What am I going to do if everything falls apart tomorrow? I think, well, I could just go and get a job at the local supermarket if I absolutely had to. I really think that someone would take me on. So it kind of takes away that pressure of feeling like it's all or nothing. And actually there is, there is an in between.
We can always go back, but you know, hopefully. That won't be the case for you. It sounds like you have no regrets from leaving teaching and the only way is up. Now we talked about all the successes. We talked about the good things, but ultimately being in business isn't always rosy. We know that there are good times. There are bad times. When you look back over the last few years, what have been some of the biggest struggles for you in your business?
I suppose it's a bit like, well, one of the struggles at the moment is like the customer ghosting and just. I struggle with communication at the best of times, but it's, yeah, when you feel like you've got an order in line and then you hear nothing or someone might reply to you and say, no, you're not for me or too expensive, or I've gone somewhere else. That's fine. So you sort of, you have to really push aside.
Those strong feelings about that and move on to the next, but it is a difficult thing to do. And with the wedding industry, especially is that a lot of the orders, they all come at the same time. We obviously have a wedding season, so we have quiet spells in the winter, really busy spells in the summer. And it's making that balance work, isn't it? I think, but.
Yeah, planning ahead, thinking it through. I think the ghosting thing is a real challenge. And I think especially as kind of solopreneurs, small business owners, we do take it really personally when people either say no to us or just disappear off the face of the earth. And I think one thing I've learned, and I'm sure you're learning along the way, is that we have to just get a thicker skin and realize that it's not just It's not personal.
I'm writing a book at the moment, a wedding industry book. And literally just before we did this call, I've been writing a chapter on sales. And the last thing I wrote before we had this conversation was it's not a no until it's a no, because actually sometimes these people come back out of the woodwork. I've known people that have had conversations, really positive conversations about a cake or about flowers with a couple. They agree a prize. They send the paperwork over and that couple.
just disappears off the face of the earth, doesn't reply to them, and then suddenly six months later just reappears and it's like Are you still okay to do my wedding cake? So, you know, it's, it's not a no until it's a no. So we have to be consistent and keep asking the question.
And also the other thing I was writing about is the fact that it's not personal, that the actual phrase I wrote just before we spoke was, The CEO of Burger King doesn't cry on his sofa every time I decide to go to McDonald's, because I think sometimes we, as small business owners, we take it so personally and we think, oh, they've decided to go with that business instead of me. It must be something I did. It must be something I wore. It must be my prices.
It must be my brand, you know, and we beat ourselves up. But actually, As I just said, you know, in, in these bigger businesses, they don't have time to think about whether or not I've decided to go to McDonald's that day. And it's not because I hate Burger King or I hate their branding or I hate their prices. Sometimes it's just a personal choice in that moment to go somewhere else. So yeah, I absolutely hear you on those struggles.
And I think there's a lot of people who are probably struggling with similar things. So as well as your cake business, you now are trying to help other aspiring bakers to, as you call it, not be a hobby business anymore and actually register and be a proper business. And I do think you have some struggles in the baking industry that many of us don't have to cope with.
So just the thought of hearing words like hygiene certificates and EHO inspections, like freaks a whole lot of people out and puts them off. off. So if there are people listening that haven't got to that point of becoming a proper as it were baking business, have you got any reassurance for them that those processes aren't as difficult as they sound?
Yeah, I think you can, you can break it all down. So I, I've broke it down into sort of 10 steps. There's 10 sort of things that you need to do to start baking business, which you think, Oh my goodness, I've got 10 things to do, but actually One of them is just creating a name for yourself. The next one is getting your food hygiene certificate, which will only be, you know, a few hours work. So once that's done, you haven't got to do that for another few years.
So when you break it down, it's not like you've got to do these on a daily basis or a weekly basis. It's just to get set up. So once it's all out of the way, you're fine. And then you just got to update things every now and again. And that's it. Some things are scary. So yeah, having someone come in your home and inspect your kitchen, you might think, Oh my goodness, they're going to notice that bit of dust there, that little bit of crumb on the floor there.
And you do overwhelms you always, but they're not looking for that. They're just hoping, well, making sure that you are using the proper cleaning methods, that you're storing the food in the correct way, just like a shop or a cafe would. restaurant, all those sort of things. But it is ever so slightly more relaxed than that, because we are a low risk. We don't use things like raw meats and things like that, which are the high risk foods. So yeah, I just, I try and put it in such a way that it's.
It's not as daunting as you may think.
Yeah. And I think a lot of people stay in that place cause they feel like it's so daunting and therefore they put off doing it. But actually I imagine that when you get things in place and do it properly, there's a massive relief that you're no longer like running this dodgy enterprise that you shouldn't be doing.
Yeah, absolutely. And so yeah, a lot of people don't realize that even if you're doing something that's not very regular, that you do still need to have all the paperwork in place, you still have to be registered and have your hygiene certificates especially if you're serving the public. So yeah, if anyone wants any particular help with that, then you can find that information on my website or through me.
Amazing. I will of course put all of the links in the show notes for that as well. But if you're listening and you haven't done those things, stop being scared of it, stop being daunted, get it done because you'll feel so much better once you've got it done. Now, Krissy, one of the things you, when you initially reached out to me that you were talking about, was this new guidance from the Food Standards Agency around flowers and foliage on cakes.
Now, this is something that I didn't even know was a thing that was coming. So thank you for highlighting it and bringing it to my attention. But I believe that they are putting together some new guidelines and you've. been quite involved in that. So explain to me, how did you get involved in that and what are these guidelines aiming to do?
Yeah. So I've, I'm a massive floral person. I love using flowers on my cakes. It doesn't matter what type, but obviously fresh flowers are one of the high risk ones because of what might be inside and harmful. So it's always been a massive interest of mine. And I hate to see anyone doing it wrong, and I knew that this was something that I wanted to teach people. And it's not just cake makers, I can teach this to florists as well, because some florists do put flowers on cakes.
And I just reached out to the FSA late last year and just said, you know, have you actually got any official documents that can help me so that when I'm teaching people to do it, that I'm using the correct terminology and the right information, because I was just doing it based on my own knowledge and what I, my experience, I suppose. And that is when they come back to me and said we are actually writing some draft guidance at the moment specifically for it and it is called floristry and food.
And I was like, Oh, brilliant. So they sent me sort of a lengthy email. I think it was copy and pasted from it. And I was like, oh, brilliant. Thank you very much. And then a few weeks later, one of the policy advisors emailed me again and said, we'd love to have you read the draft document if you're available and we want feedback on it. And I was like, yes, please. I'm super excited about it. And yeah, and that's just what I did. And they were hoping to release this guidance.
in the spring, so around about March, April time. But the amount of feedback they got, so they called us stakeholders. There was several of us, I think there was florists and caterers and other cake makers as well. But the feedback they got from it, just, I think it was quite overwhelming for them. My feedback wasn't necessarily positive. There was a lot of work that needed to be done with the information they'd put inside and they just turned around and said, no, it's not ready yet.
We can't release that because of what people have said. So we're still waiting to hear, but they said they'd keep me updated. And I said, I'd be more than happy to help any other way. So.
Amazing. What an incredible insight to have gone and read that guidance before it's even published and it means that you can help all of us as well. So this is obviously important for people to know, not just for those who are making the cake, also for florists, as you said, but actually for venues, for wedding planners, for anyone involved should be paying attention to this because it is increasingly popular to see all sorts of flowers going on cakes. And I don't think that people always.
Considering the safety of that at all. So although the guidance isn't released, are there any kind of top line bits of advice or tips from that that you can share with my listeners?
Absolutely. So the first thing I always say is that if you are wanting to use fresh flowers or foliage on food, so it could be cake brownies. Sometimes there's some people do like the dessert platters and things like that is you need to know your flowers. So even if it's just a simple. Google search or physically asking a florist or just using a reputable florist that knows what flowers are what, that is the main thing you need to know.
And then using that reputable florist, if they are using organic flowers, that is always the sort of most recommended one for food. So they might not use that for the styling, that's fine. But if they have organic flowers for the cake, even better, just reduces that risk of the use of pesticides and things like that.
And then It's applying them to the cake that is another big issue because we don't want to just be sticking flower stems straight into the food because of that cross contamination risk. So we have to use specific things that are in food safe materials as well to stop that cross contamination. So things like the sap from the stems, it might be that the water they've been sitting in. is not suitable. Pollens, things like that.
So there are a lot of different types of flowers and foliage that carry toxins that if we were to consume as humans would make us poorly. Anywhere from just having a tummy ache, or actually being violently ill. So you have to sort of know what you're putting onto your capes.
So if we are a cake maker or even maybe a wedding planner and a couple comes to us and they've got this big vision, maybe they've seen it online somewhere that they want all these flowers on their cake and we're not sure whether or not that is okay or not, where's the best place for us to go to get help with that to make sure that we're advising them correctly?
Yeah. So I would. First of all, make sure that the cake maker is fully involved. So whoever's making that cake should be fully involved with what's going on it. And then I would then probably approach the florist. So how it works for me is I'm the cake maker, I am fully responsible. So I don't let anyone else put anything on my cakes because it's my responsibility. But I do work very closely with the florists to ensure that I know what they're giving me to put onto it. That makes sense.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So you're making sure, because ultimately it's your responsibility as the cake maker, that if someone eats your cake and they're ill because of something that's been put on it, that's your ultimate responsibility. So therefore, you're not letting anyone put anything on there unless you've checked it yourself first. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So if we are a wedding planner or a venue and a couple says to us, Oh, there's a cake in the corner.
Can you go and shove these flowers onto it? And the cake maker's not there. We shouldn't be doing that.
I wouldn't recommend it at all. I think as a cake maker, I am very much like that's my baby. So I don't want anyone touching it. And I do have a thing in my terms of conditions that says, if anyone puts anything on my cake when I, once I've delivered it and I'm done with it, it's then their responsibility because. I wasn't there. I wasn't informed. I can't do anything about that.
Yeah, I think that's really important. And again, if you're listening to this and you don't have a clause like that in your contract, it might be well worth listening to it. So at the moment, do we know when the expected date is for this guidance? Do you think it's going to be a lot of change for cake makers or is it more just helping them understand and have more knowledge?
So no date as yet. I spoke to them back a couple months ago. So back in. April, but yeah, I was hoping by the end of the year, that's where I see it. But yeah, and it's, it is a guidance. It's not a law. It's not a legislation, anything like that. They're not banning us from anything. It's, it's quite a soft bit of guidance. It's just to help us consider the risks of using certain flowers and foliage on our cakes. So it's, yeah, it's not like a harsh rule.
It's just to make you think a bit more carefully about what you're doing.
Amazing. So again, it's a little bit like what we were talking about earlier with the food hygiene certificates. It's not something to be scared of, it's not something that's daunting, it's actually just something that's designed to help you. So if you are listening to this and you're thinking, All this applies to me, then keep an eye out for that guidance coming out. Give Krissy a follow on Instagram.
I'm sure she'll be talking about it all over the place once it is released as well, and make sure you're on top of it because you want to just make sure you've got the knowledge, knowledge is power, and it's going to help you move forward. Super interesting, Krissy. Thank you so much for sharing that. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you as well. Once that is officially.
Now, as we bring this episode to an end, Krissy, I always end my podcast with the same question, and it's this, which is, what's one thing you personally wish you'd known sooner in your own business?
Oh, about branding and marketing, that is, that has been the biggest thing and the hardest, like, or the thing that I've worked the hardest on in my business over the last few years because I realized how important it is to have a brand and, and be consistent with it. Basically, it's really helped.
It really has helped you. So what, what changes did you implement? What have you done to your brand to make it work better?
So my current branding I've had since 2021. Now I've not changed anything about it. And that has just really, I put my business out there of what I wanted it to look like. So, I mean, I say I'm Luxury Wedding Cakes, and it's just the colours, the font, the copy, all of that. And that is what it is. And I don't think I'll really change it now. I think it will just always stick.
Amazing. Yeah. It's so, so important. Something that we often think of too late, but it's never too late to rebrand. It's never too late to change. If you don't like your brand, I always say, if you've got to a point where you feel embarrassed to show someone your website or feel embarrassed to show someone your business card, that's normally a sign that it's time for a rebrand to something that you're super proud of, which it sounds like you are really proud of your current business brand.
So that's where we want everyone to be. Krissy, it's been such a pleasure chatting to you. If people want to find out more about the future guidance or things about their baking business. Where's the best place for them to find you? And do you have any resources that may help them?
Yeah. So I'm on Instagram and I'm on Facebook. And I've got my website, which is where you will find my blog, which hopefully I can keep updating. And I've also got my free downloads on there as well. So the current one on there is seven toxic flowers and foliage. That should not be used on cakes. And it's got some popular ones that are used in the wedding industry and listed in there. So that's helpful. Hopefully.
Amazing. I will make sure that I link to that. That's well worth a download for anyone in cakes, in flowers. I think you need to give that a read. We don't want to be serving anyone any toxic flowers on their wedding day. So go and grab that. And I'll put all of the links in the show notes. Krissy, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking your time out to speak to us on today's podcast. I really enjoyed that conversation with Krissy.
I think it's fascinating to dive deep into some of these different areas. And although you may think it doesn't apply to you, actually, I think some of her tips apply to the wider industry. And if you're involved in the cake, in taking photos of the cake, in providing flowers for the cake, you should be on top of this guidance. So do look out for that. When it comes out, do go and follow Krissy on Instagram, as I'm sure she'll be talking about it everywhere. And I'll see you all next time.