MAFS, finding success and comparisonitis - an interview with celebrant Kelly Hawes

Let's get going with today's episode. Today's guest is one of the loveliest people you could hope to meet in the wedding industry as a qualified celebrant. She's passionate about giving her couples a personalized ceremony that fits their personalities, and is always educating couples, wedding suppliers, and venues about why celebrate weddings are a great option. With numerous awards and a couple of TV appearances under her belt.

Kelly has built up a wonderful business and a great reputation in the industry. I just know you're gonna love hearing her story. Kelly, welcome to the podcast.

I'm going to sell this business, but I don't know what I'm going to do next. And that was it really, it was very much looking at myself and trying to decide who am I now that I'm not school run Mum , who am I? What do I enjoy doing the wedding industry? Always pulled me. And I've often said, I think that's because of my obsession with Say Yes to the dress . Uh, yeah, I just did lots of research to settle on what was going to suit me and the hours I wanted to work best.

And I found this word celebrant. I had no idea what it was, but it was when I was researching what a registrar kind of needs to be. And that was it, Becca, to be honest, um, I saw that, I thought I can do that. Got myself booked on a training course and literally haven't looked back since.

But we put together between us really a story which very much talks about their journey together. We celebrate who they are as individuals. We celebrate the love they feel for each other. Because I think love is shown and felt very differently by us all. And you know, I, I write a ceremony that really encompasses who they are. I put lots of modern touches in there, a little bit of fun as well. I really want to see their guests smiling and laughing throughout rather than

looking a bit somber because they're bored . Um, so yeah, basically that's it. I write the ceremony with the help of the couples and I deliver that on the day.

It can be totally secular. To be quite honest, there are no rules. I think most of my couples still want the structure that looks and feels every bit of a wedding. So many that you would expect. But if anyone said to me, I'm going to cartwheel down the aisle and I'm not gonna have any music, and. Oh, I could. And you know, Can you tell some jokes? Okay. . I think that's a big extreme, but it just goes some way of kind of showing anything is possible.

How did you take the leap to start that own business rather than just working for an employer?

The whole, the business package. Was was right. There was a great business mind behind it, but the way that my employer was doing everything to me was completely wrong. And I just thought, I can do this so much better by myself. And so I did . Becca: I love that. That is such an entrepreneurial mindset. Sometimes people say to me, How do I know if I'll be a good entrepreneur? How do I know if I should start my own business? And that's what I always say.

I say, If you are employed and you spend all your employment thinking, I could do this better, or why don't they do it like this? Or why don't they change the way they do this? It would be much more effective then actually. That's all you need as an attribute to be your own business owner.

And so many people I speak to who are now self-employed say that they were just, they couldn't go back to employment because they're such bad employees, because they wanna make all the changes and do everything in a better way, which is the beauty of being self employed. So you called it a proper business. I wanted to say that your celebrant business is a hundred percent a proper business. What do you mean by that?

Sorry. I was, I was going back to when I was first self-employed, I was a nail technician and, and that was really a lot more of a hobby around the children than a business. That's, that's what I was referring back to my celebrant business and I use like exclamation marks. I think because we're creative people, we kind of forget that it's a business. Um, yes, this, this is every bit a business as any other I've been involved with. But yeah, I was referring back to my nail technician days.

I. I didn't have any spreadsheets. I just, you know, went to, did the, the nails, took the money and, and didn't worry about whether I was actually making any money. . Becca: Well, you'd be surprised how many people start out in the wedding industry in exactly the same place though, because we find something we love and we enjoy doing it, and sometimes we forget, well actually I could make some money out of this and actually I deserve to be making some money out of this.

And I think it's also interesting to think about, well, what constitutes a. Business because sometimes when we love it, it doesn't feel like work for a start, also I think sometimes, and I know this is the position where you are in yourself, Kelly, that actually you don't wanna have this huge thing with lots of employees anymore because you're trying to strip back and have a less stressful life.

And so you feel like, Well, I'm not being a proper business owner because I'm not growing, but actually there's other ways to define success in your business. Oh, totally. Yeah. I, I completely agree with that. Um, I have got to the stage in life where I've got really lovely work life balance for me, that is a success. Yeah, it's, it's really important to find that when you're able to, I've, you know, I'm getting on a bit now, , so I've been there, done that. I've spent years where I've had.

Three jobs on the go at once because needs must. But I am really fortunate to have got to the place in life where I've got the work balance and I love what I do.

First finds for me back when you were called Engage Weddings, and there was another Facebook group that I also joined, and quite frankly, I, I honestly don't think I could have got anywhere without the support of all those other businesses that I was networking with. People like myself who had just started out and, and lots of other people that had been doing the weddings for years really helped me to grow to what I've now got. But it did take a good couple of years of networking before people.

Really started to recommend me, whether that was venues or other suppliers. So it's, it's, it's hard, but it's just a matter of keep going. Find the right people around you. Don't be afraid to ask. And never think that you are perfect. There's always room for improvement. There's always room for growth and development. Five years on, I'm still doing all those things.

But the reality is, That you do have to put in the hard work and you don't find the success instantly, but little by little, as you build and you look back over that journey, you can see how it's grown over time and how those little steps that you've put into place have had a big impact on your business. Now, you talked about being lucky, but I just wanna come back to that because I think it's interesting, isn't it?

Because you say, Oh, I couldn't have done it if I hadn't have found these groups, or These groups really helped. Which I'm sure is true, but there was something in you that went looking for that, that decided you needed to find that kind of community or even to take the step to join in with those kind of things. So if there's someone sitting there thinking, Oh, I'd like something like that for myself, what would you say to them?

Obviously when you're starting out, that's really difficult. Just tell as many people as possible who you are, what you do, reach right outside of your comfort zone. That's probably the hardest part, is to just really reach right outside of your comfort zone. Make yourself known to people that are also meeting those, those couples. So for me, That would likely be venues. Most couples are going to book their venue before they start looking for other suppliers.

So that was kind of where I just kept starting. I still find it a massive struggle getting in with venues. . So I don't know what the answer is to that other than just make a nuisance of yourself.

And you can have it the other way around. So definitely with venues keep persevering and just because it's a no now or a not yet, or even an ignoring you doesn't mean in six months time that won't change. Now, networking I know is something that you are really good at. You're really great at putting yourself out there. And like you said, you are still seeing that as an important part of your business. How do you think networking with other wedding professionals and venues. Impacted you.

Has it led to bookings? Have you got any examples of how that's worked out for you?

And I look at them like, Yes. And they're like, Oh, I, I know you or I follow you, or I've heard of you, and. I think that blows my mind all the time. But then I could also say the same that I know people by their business name more than their. Their actual names. Uh, so if they then turn around and say, Oh, I'm so and so from this cake business. Oh, right. Oh, I do know who you are.

. But yeah, the, the networking side of it, um, as, as I say, much as it does take a long time, it's had a massive impact on my business. I think it's also had a massive impact on my confidence, um, and also just that support network to have like-minded people around you.

All go through the same business problems and understand our day to day routines, our day to day problems, that in itself is worth its weight in gold to have, You know, here I am working at home on my own, and yet I regard all of these people as my colleagues that I can call upon if I've got a problem, and I think that really helps.

The other thing I think is interesting with networking is often you don't see the fruits of. Either for some time or. Ever because you don't know where that one conversation you've had at one networking night once or somewhere online has, like you said, ended up through friends of friends of friends of friends. What you wanna do in this industry, and I say it all the time, is you want to be the name that people think of when they say celebrant.

So if you're listening to this and you're a cake maker, every time I ask someone, What cake maker do you recommend? You want your name to be first on that list. And the only way to achieve that is. Being a nice person and being out there and sharing with people. And Kelly, a story I haven't told you yet. Actually, I was at the National Wedding Show a couple of weekends ago and I was talking to a supplier and I think they were a celebrant themselves, and I said, Oh.

And they said, Do you work with any other celebrants? I said, Yeah, I work with Kelly. I don't know if you've heard of her. She went, Oh, I've never met her, but I've heard of her everywhere. And it's exactly. Said, where, you know, people are talking about you, you've got stuff online and you don't quite know how far reaching that is. So network is so important and you've gotta keep doing it as well for exactly the reasons I've just said.

Now the other thing that I know you do and have done along your journey is invest in your self as well in your business. Um, whether that's through the training you did originally through being in my members club, why do you think that's an important part of being a business?

Even if I sit there thinking, I have done all this before, I can guarantee I will learn at least one more thing or one new way of thinking about something. So for me it is about keeping up with trends. It's about keeping up with how everyone else is working and just finding new ways of streamlining what you already. And sometimes, you know what, it's a kick up the bum to remind you to do some of these things that you know you should be doing.

Now, another thing that happens to me quite a lot in conversations is people say to me that I'm starting out in this and I just don't know where I'm ever gonna get any inquiries from. I just don't know where these people are gonna come from. So now as you look at your business as it is today, where do you find that most of your enquiries are coming from? Do you track where they're coming from and how does that picture look?

All sorts of places, so they never concentrate on just one thing. As I say, the recommendations comes from all sorts of networking or venues that I've worked at before or friends of friends of friends. I am in directories. You kind of get the odd one comes in direct from a direct directory, but I think sometimes that could be the first port of call and then they go off and research you forgetting. That, that's where they found you in the first place.

So yeah, I don't think there's any right or wrong places to be. Just show up. Even if, like, I, I use Instagram a lot more than I ever did, and I still have inquiries coming on Facebook, so I don't leave it dormant, but I'm not as sort, prolific working on there as I am on Instagram, but it is up to date. So I, I just think it's important to just try to be present. In lots of different places. But it doesn't mean you have to do them all because that's impossible.

. Becca: Yes. It's about being visible though, isn't it? Because I think again, sometimes we are naive. We start a business and we think, Great, I'll just put an Instagram post up and everyone will come running to me as actually we need to put ourselves in front of the right people in the right places. And I think it's interesting when you say, um, your couples say that they come from the internet. You're right. That probably.

Kind of true because I think couples don't just find you in one place and then inquire. If you're anything like me, when I'm looking into something, I might find someone on a directory, then I go and look at their Instagram page, then I go and look at their website. Then I might end up on their YouTube channel and you go round and round and actually you can't remember where you started that process.

And I think it's important that we realize that people are looking at us everywhere we go, isn't it? Because we don't quite know where they're coming from. So on that same track, if we've got someone starting out either as a celebrant or in the wedding industry in general, what advice would you give to them if they're sitting there today thinking, I feel like I'm never gonna be where Kelly's at. I feel like I'm never gonna have that work life balance.

I feel like I'm never gonna get the enquiries. I feel like I'm always gonna have to charge real discount rates to get people in. What piece of advice would you give to them? It's the million dollar question, isn't it? , I think. The first thing is don't be looking at me thinking you need to be like me because I've made that mistake and that's quite exhausting.

you, you need to persevere with everything you're doing and have confidence in yourself that the more I always kind of say this, the more mud you throw at the wall, eventually some of it will stick it. It's just that, just keep throwing it out there. Do not expect results overnight, but be true to who you are. Also, you know, just keep looking at improving everything you you can possibly do.

And it goes back to that sort of the way you've come across other businesses and how you've been treated poorly. Make sure you never do that in your business. Make sure you are there and quick to answer inquiries. You are helpful and you're not just. Selling, Selling, selling. I think you need to show your personality that goes as far as networking as it does to talking direct to couples. Yeah. It's just a matter of keep going, I think, and just try not to be negative to yourself.

I think we can be our own worst enemies. And here I am saying this and I. Still do all these things myself, as I say, five years in, I still have that self doubt. You still have wobbles, but I think part of that is because you care so much about what you're trying to do that, um, you can't, you can't always be positive, but you know, that's why you need to put yourself into check. Right. Come on, Kelly, We can do this, but try not to compare yourself to others.

Is probably the biggest lesson I've ever learned. . Yeah, And that is definitely the one that we're all having to remind ourselves. All of the time, because it's such an easy trap to fall into now. You talk about confidence and you talk about how your confidence has grown over the period of your business.

So first of all, Kelly, if people are wondering how on earth did that happen, tell us the story.

And I thought, Oh my gosh, this is groundbreaking. You know, pre covid people still didn't really know what a celebrant was. And so it was still very much about educating people. I thought this is fantastic for celebrants. And then I was like, I have to get myself on that show, . Um, so I wrote, I emailed. E4 and just put myself out there and I thought, What on earth am I doing? What am I letting myself in for?

But I, I, I think if you have those thoughts come across your mind, don't think about it. Just do it. And so I did. And then when I had, uh, a reply, an instant reply, I almost fell off my chair until I realized that actually what they'd sent me. An application as a singleton to go on and get married on the show Um, and I thought, Right, okay, I'm not giving up realize that actually it's not E4 I need to write to, I need to write to the production company.

And I did I found out who they were, wrote to them. I didn't hear anything and I thought, Oh, well, at least I tried. And you know, I think it was again, out of chance that when they did come to start the series, they'd found their venue. I happened to live very close to one of the venues that they were going to be using and. Again, I think I probably just came up on a Google search celebrants in Hertfordshire perhaps. And I got an email out the blue, Hey, have you heard of this show?

Were you looking for celebrants? And that was it. Um, I was offered, you know, to come on and do it. Am I free for the dates? Would I be prepared to do it? And, and that was it. And I think second time around, they probably just approached all the same people again. and, and yes, I snapped their hands off once again, . Becca: Well, it's very exciting to see your face on the tv, and I know that it's been exciting for you.

Just tell us a bit about what the experience of being on that show was like, What was it like being as part of that recording that's on TV right now? Lots of people have been watching it. What was it like? It's fascinating. There's lots of hanging around, uh, with not a lot happening. Lots of little meetings between producers, cameramen. I did, I did witness sort of rooms being decorated by florists and all the getting together, but generally I'm kind of.

Whisked out the way a little bit because they don't want me to meet anyone involved. I, I didn't get to meet the couple, I didn't get to meet their families before we're actually in that ceremony room. Uh, so kind of what you see when that couple walk in, that's the first time I'm seeing them too. So it was scary. really scary because normally I'm kind of. You know, you tell yourself, right? I'm the expert in the room. I know all about these two.

I know what I'm going to be saying, You know, and I know what to expect of them. And here I am. I've had to write something, so I know what I'm saying, but I've got no idea if it's relevant to the couple I'm about to see. And you are added to that. You are surrounded by camera people, sound people, and just all sorts going on in the background. But do you know what, when it came to. Okay, go there. I am celebrant doing celebranting. , not Kelly, thinking, Oh my God, I'm gonna be on the telly.

Like you said, don't think too much about it. If you send an email and it gets ignored, well you're no further back, but there's just a chance that the right person might come across it or we don't know what happened. They might have come across that email and then subconsciously remembered your name. We just don't know. If you're listening to this, don't think that this is how it works. You sit at home one day and someone brings you up and asks you to be on the tv. Often.

If you want something, you've gotta go after it yourself. And I think it's incredible that you've been on tv. I I get excited every time I see someone posting about it, and I know that you love talking about it too. So thank you for sharing.

Are you just looking to keep your business as it is, or is there a focus that's gonna change over the next couple of years. I am really happy with how business is going now, but let's face it, none of us ever know what's about to hit. We've learned a massive lesson with Covid next year for myself and many others I know has been very quiet compared to what we are used to. So I'm still not taking my foot off the gas. I'm still doing all the things I should be doing, but.

What I'm now able to do is to actually pick and choose a lot more than I ever used to, which couples I'm going to work with. I've nailed down the area that I'm willing to travel to. No longer am I going to fly all, all around the country chasing a job. So that for me is really exciting that I've, I've understood who I am, which couples make me happiest because I can't ever say that. I don't enjoy.

All of my weddings, but there are, it is become really apparent to me which ones I love the most and they're the couples I'm now chasing and anxious to fill my diary with. That's where my focus is now, is to just put out the right message to find my people.

People are just left, right center, working at weddings, doing their social media, doing their blogging, all of the other things. And so I have a little segment on this podcast that I like to call Wedding Pros. It's time to chill out. So, Kelly, when it's time for you to get away from the business, get away from the work, what do you like to do to just take your mind off?

I don't know if I feel a bit old, but I'm a member of the National Trust , and we love to go off on these walks. And also I found a love of history all of a sudden. Um, and we became members of the, uh, palaces. Uh, I can't think what it was now called, the Palaces membership. So I think there's five on there. So we've been doing that through the last few months. Um, that's been incredible actually.

And when we're not out and about in the outdoors, really, we do like to watch a bit of crime drama. Sort of detective stuff or CSI stuff. That's, that's my go to. And uh, of course I've been watching Married at First Sight . Becca: Of course you have. So there we go. There's Kelly's TV recommendations, a little bit of crime drama, or of course, if you haven't yet watched it, make sure you go watch Married at first, like Kelly, which episode are you in? If people wanna go and track it down.

Episode five.

Back. What's the one thing that you wish you'd known sooner?

And then, I don't know there was one, I watched something and there was just a way about her. I thought, Oh, but I'm not like that. And then, I don't know the penny clicked. I thought, No, I'm not like that. So actually, The couples that are looking to book her are not couples that are going to be looking for me. So I took myself off the stories , I'm not gonna keep following this, this. I mean, she's a wonderful celebrant. I don't know what she's doing these days. She's not in my area.

Yeah. I just took myself out of that situation and then focused on just being myself and realizing. , that, I am enough, . And there's, you know, it's about matching now couples to celebrants. And I think that's really important just to be who you are and that your right people will find you.

So sucked into comparing ourselves and looking at what other people are doing, that we actually lose sight and let go of what we're doing ourselves. Kelly, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you. I've loved getting to know you and watching your business grow and bloom over the last five years, and of course, ending up on the TV as well. If people wanna find out more about you, Kelly, where can they find.

I would love to see you there. I'll be back on next week's podcast. I'll see you then.