There's a lot of factors sometimes to consider with people getting married the second time around. Yeah, I think, I think there's so much that we could be doing and I think we have to celebrate second marriages just as much as first marriages and as professionals. really embrace those people as well as our first time couples and that probably comes down in our ideal client work and I think it's something to not be forgotten.
I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger, and you're listening to the Wedding Pros Who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level. If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what you love, then you're in the right place.
Let's get going with today's episode. Today, I'm talking to Catherine Ramm, owner of Dorset Dried Flowers. Based in rural Dorset, Catherine is passionate about natural products and creating gorgeous dried floral displays that can last for years. Catherine recently came along to one of my networking nights and we got chatting all about her own recent wedding and what she learned being on the other side of the wedding planning.
At 51 with four children and even one recent grandchild and also living on a farm, she has a whole lot to say about her own planning experience. I cannot wait to dive into her story. Catherine, welcome to the podcast.
Hello, thank you for having me.
I'm very excited to have you. I know we've got a lot to talk about based on our conversation when we met down on the south coast. But before we get into that, I would love to just start by hearing a little bit about your journey into how you ended up. with the business that you've got today.
Oh my goodness. I think like many of us in the wedding industry, I sort of fell into it really. Literally, it was 2015. Unfortunately, I'd been running a business for about 20 years in network marketing and my marriage broke down and I was at home with four children. and didn't know how I was going to afford Christmas. So I thought, I've always been quite creative, I thought I'd make some dried fruit decorations, bizarrely, I don't know why, and sell them at local markets.
It went really well and I then thought in the spring, well, I've really enjoyed that and dried fruit sort of led me into dried flowers. So I started playing and taught myself floristry and built myself a dried flower business and dried flowers. There was obviously something, I had a real passion for them, because if we go back 30 years, I'd wanted them for my, my first wedding. So there was something that just sort of led me to, to create a dried flower business, which I absolutely love.
So literally fell into it.
I absolutely love that. You make it sound so simple. I just needed some money and then I decided to start making dry flowers. How did you go about finding your first client? So obviously your first product you were selling at the market, but what about when it came to weddings and those kind of clients? Where did you find those from?
I was really lucky. My first wedding client actually found me. I was selling some home decor on Etsy. And she actually found me on there and then worked out where I was away from Etsy and came to me and said, can you do my, do my wedding? She said, I'm in Edinburgh and I'm in Dorset. I don't know whether anyone knows how far it is between Edinburgh and Dorset, but it's quite a way. But the joy of dried flowers meant I could style her entire wedding.
And then I boxed it all up, everything from her bouquet to table decorations, to two full size floral chandeliers, and we boxed them. We palleted them. We wrapped them to within an inch of their lives and put them on a pallet on a lorry down here in Dorset. And it drove them to Edinburgh overnight. And they came off the other end, immaculate.
Wow, what a story to finding your first client. Shows the importance of, I always talk about this, visibility, because you obviously showed up, you were out there on Etsy, she liked to work, and she didn't care that you lived the opposite end of the United Kingdom. She wanted you and she was willing to pay for it.
Yes. And you know, when we're looking at ideal clients, she was my ideal client. She was an absolute dream to work with. And I mean, the reviews she gave me, even now she messages me and she says, I just can't believe how you just made my wedding. And it was great because she then installed it herself. They had a marquee again in a rural location in Scotland. So she was quite happy to install it herself. But yes, it was wonderful. But that was my, that was my first wedding.
And from there, I actually thought, well, that went quite well, really. I need, I need to look at this. And so just started letting people know. what I could do.
Amazing. And do you still serve as clients all over the country or are most of your weddings now down in Dorset?
A mixture of, of both really. I love doing the weddings where I can actually go and style there and there and then, so to speak. I mean, It was great that I could transport all my products to Edinburgh, and that is the joy of having dried flowers. But you're a bit in the lap of the gods, in a way, of hoping that they install them correctly, that the chandeliers aren't wonky, that sort of thing. So I'm a bit of a perfectionist.
You know, I quite like to go and do it all myself and know it's all just Just absolutely right. And again, I work with such lovely venues. It's just great to go and go and do venues. So I, I, it's about half and half that I do down in Dorset. And then there's some that I will go further afield and personally install. And then I've got other customers who are quite happy for me to do the work and ship it to them.
Fab. So a real diverse mix. Now, Catherine, when we met down in Dorset, you told me that you'd recently got married, which is very exciting. So congratulations. So you, you mentioned earlier in your story, your first marriage broke down, then you talked about starting the business. You're now married again. Tell us a little bit of the love story. How did you meet and how did you get engaged?
Oh my goodness. So yes, Got divorced in 2014, 2015, and then in 2017, actually in the December, my dad unfortunately died, which was really tragic, day before Christmas Eve. And I was picking up my horse food from the local farm shop, and got chatting to the farmer who knew me.
knew of my dad as well because they sort of had links with cattle and things and he could obviously see how distressed I was and kept chatting to me and I'd pop down every so often pick my horse feed up for the children's ponies and Chat to him and then February the 16th at 10 o'clock at night I was on my sofa watching television in my little cottage all the children were in bed and there was a knock at my door which Doesn't happen when you live in the countryside.
No one knocks on your door at 10 o'clock at night. And he was stood there saying, I hear you've never been to quite a famous pub in Dorset, just on the coast by us. And he said, I'm just nipping there for a drink. Would you like to come with me? And I didn't know how to say no. I just, I just panicked. So I said yes, and went for a drink with him. Really?
So that was yes, February 2018. And then Christmas 2021, I was doing a Christmas fair because I still quite like going out and selling the home decor and the fruits. And I was at a very beautiful, almost state, well, stately home in Dorset. And there was a very lovely lady there selling silver jewellery that I loved and I'd eyed up some rings of hers. And unbeknownst to me, my other half who came along to the event.
was whisked off by one of the girls who was helping me on the stall, and they picked my rings and he proposed on Christmas day.
Oh, I love that. That's so lovely. What a lovely story. And then when did you get married?
Well, I have to think about this because we actually got married twice. Once on the, once on the 7th of September, and then again on the 9th of September. So I made him do it twice. So we had a registry office on the 7th of September with just us and the children and my mum. And then what I, it's awful, some people will get upset if I say what I, what I feel is my real wedding was then on the Saturday where we had our celebrant and our huge event that yes, I masterminded and It was incredible.
So exciting. I can't wait to dig into that a little bit more in a minute. Now, Catherine, one of the reasons we're having this conversation is because we were having the conversation at the networking event. And you mentioned earlier about ideal client, your own ideal client, and we all talk about ideal clients. And if we're completely honest, I would say that your demographic wouldn't fit into most people's ideal client profile. So as we said, you're on your second marriage, you're at 51.
And I think often when people think of their ideal client, they think of, you know, some young blonde woman at 28 who works in the city. You know, everyone's got the same ideal client. And that's not right because there's all sorts of different people out there getting married. So what was some of your experiences when you first got engaged of working with suppliers, both negative and positive?
Oh my goodness. Yes. Do you know what? I think it's so different when you're 51. I mean, I was 20, I was 21 when I got married first time around, very young. And at 51, yes, definitely felt as if I was. Not anybody's ideal client, really. And actually probably the biggest thing with that was I felt I wasn't anyone's ideal client when it came to choosing my dress. The whole mutton dressed as lamb comes to mind. I was so worried about going and choosing a dress because.
I'm 51, and not 21 anymore, and I think I'm a couple of stone heavier than I was at 21 as well. So, so yes, that, that was quite unnerving. I think, I think one of the biggest things I learnt, certainly at my age, was how important it is to be kind. to everybody and I had really positive experiences and actually really negative experiences and my one takeaway is just be kind because I was probably as excited this time to get married as I was at 21 but a lot more confident.
in some areas of my life. But yes, in terms of trying wedding dresses, I'm totally unconfident. So yeah, everyone needs to be really kind, I think. That's an important message.
And why shouldn't you be just as excited to get married at 51 as you were at 21? Because it's no less important to you at 51 as it is in 21. In fact, it might be more important to you. So I definitely hear you loud and clear on that. So let's stick with the wedding dress experience then. What do you think? If people are listening, maybe they're even boutique owners, what could people have done to make that experience more positive and more enjoyable for you?
I actually think once I got there and got over my own issues, then actually my experiences were really positive, really positive. And I was made to feel really, really welcome. And certainly my age wasn't a problem. So I, yeah, I think I had a really, really positive experience.
I think the biggest thing that I learned from picking my dress was I had really fixed ideas and it was so I ended up totally wearing something that I never thought I'd wear in a million years, that I'm sure probably happens to everybody. But I've tried actually working now with a lot of bridal shop owners, because I had this idea in my head, I think we all do in a way when we're getting married, of what we want the vision to be.
I know I work a lot with people about what they have in their heads. And so I knew in my head what the dress I was going to wear, what I wanted in my hair, and how I wanted my bouquet to be. Now obviously I was really lucky that I could, because I work with dried flowers, I actually made a bouquet that I thought was what I wanted, and I took it with me. To my wedding dress, you know, looking around actually, no, I'd actually chosen my dress. That's right.
And when I went back for the fitting, I took a bouquet and you know what? It was totally wrong, totally wrong. And I think for me, it was great. I just, it was, it was too big now that I'd chosen a different style of dress. So actually with bride loan shop I'm suggesting to them that they have Some of my bouquets just as props, because I think it really, really helps.
Brides when they're trying to get that overall look of how the dress is going to look to have a bouquet That's maybe just the right shape so they can think yes That is the shape of one or actually no that doesn't work now with the dress and the same I make a lot of floral crowns for wedding dress owners and I just give them to them so that people have got something to put on their head if they're thinking about maybe they want a crown because they might find when they put that on
again it's not quite the look so it's just helping them build that whole picture.
I think that's such a great idea and if you are a boutique owner listening to this then definitely reach out to Catherine and talk to her about it because that's something that maybe isn't thought about but from Catherine's experience she can see that that's a definite. gap in the market. So do reach out to her and talk to that. Now, Catherine, a little bit earlier, you said about really, you just want people to be kind.
And that says to me that you had some less than kind experiences when you were planning your wedding. Is there anything that jumps out? Obviously don't name any names or businesses, but is there anything that jumps out to you that you just think? This was a really negative experience and here's how I would have done it differently.
I think I, I mean, I've been hearing a lot of recently about how much people take on board when they're planning a wedding and how much people read. And I know we've got really, really busy lives. You know, I've got my business, my now husband, you know, has a farm that I have to help him with. I've got four children, even though sort of two are grown up, we've got the grandchild, you know, life is hectic and we don't always. read everything. And we went along to register our wedding.
It's that appointment that you have to go to to do all the legal stuff. You have to take your passport and things. And I sort of flicked through the email and thought, right, we've got to be there at 12 o'clock. We need our passports. I need my decree absolute, which I had lost, so I had to go and get another one.
And so we just rocked up there, thought we were going to, I think I'd paid the 47 pounds, or what it was, thought we were just going to show our paperwork and that was going to be it and then they said right we've seen the passports and everything now we need to interview you and i was like what and the lady said yes we interview you separately and then you know we ask you such questions so she started with me and she started me asking questions and i said my other half
isn't going to be able to answer these I said, because I tell you now, he has absolutely no clue of my date of birth. Only because he's a man. He never remembers my birthday. If I was one of the cows in the yard with an ear tag, he'd know exactly what ear tag number I had in. But if you're talking about where my birthday is, he hasn't got a clue. Okay, so I'd already pre warned her. And then it came to the declaration at the end.
Oh first off I didn't fit in a very neat box as to what I actually did because she wanted to call me a florist and I said I'm not really a florist and yeah so I was trying to work out exactly what I was which she was sort of a bit stuffy about and then at the end I read the declaration and signed it and I said and he hasn't bought his glasses he's not going to be able to read that so I'd sort of tried to pre warn her anyway swapped over and I sat outside
this room thinking oh my goodness And basically she absolutely annihilated him. It was horrific. I could hear it outside. And eventually she opened the door and she said, Will you come in? And she said, This has been a complete farce. And I said, pardon? She said, well, he doesn't know. And I said, I did try and tell you he wouldn't know when your birth is. And I said to him, when did you say it was? He said, well, I said it was around May sometime. I mean, it's the last week of April.
That's close. That's not bad. And then she said, and he can't read the declaration. I said, I did tell you. And, you know, He actually really struggles with his reading, anyway, I think, you know, probably, he's probably an undiagnosed dyslexic, if I'm honest, so he really does struggle, and so I said, I can read it to him, and I read it to him, and He, he said, I don't understand what that means. And I, so I just condensed it and he said, okay, I understand what you're trying to say.
At the end of it, she just basically said, well, you're really lucky because if you behave like this next time, you won't be getting married. And I said, what? She said, if you behave like this at the registrar, registry office, you won't be getting married. Anyway, we, we walked out of there and I was so upset. So upset, and I spoke to a lot of registrars afterwards, and yeah, it really makes me upset even now. It was so horrific. We were, we were absolutely traumatized to be honest.
She just needed to be kind. She just needed to be kind. Yes, because at the end of it, she said, did you not read all the emails you've been sent? And I said, well, I sort of skimmed over them. And yeah, it, it was just, and to be told that if we behaved like that. on our wedding day, we could perhaps not be, you know, getting married was really, really upsetting. Really upsetting.
Yeah, it sounds like an absolutely awful experience and I think there's so much in that that you've just shared that wedding pros who are listening can learn from. I think the first one is to remember that not all of our couples fit in a box and therefore we need to be making sure our processes are accessible to everyone. I've got an amazing client who talks a lot about accessibility because you know, not all wedding venues are accessible for everyone.
Everyone is able to read a document or sit in a room for the length of time you require. And I think it's a real reminder to us all that we need to be thinking through our processes and not saying you have to be able to read this and actually be understanding that maybe someone might struggle to read that and have workarounds in place. I also think the point that you say about not reading emails and overwhelm.
It's so important for us to remember because I have a lot of discussions with wedding professionals who say, you know, my couples are just so stupid because they don't read the emails and I've said it a hundred times, but actually as you found Catherine being on the other side of it, you know, they are people and they have lives and they are overwhelmed. They've never planned a wedding before. They've got all of this information, legal information coming at them.
They've got questions being asked, left, right and center decisions to make and huge amounts of money to spend. And actually we, again, we just need to. give them time to process things and to remind them again and again and again of the information because you cannot assume that they pick it up first time. Do you think all of that's fair?
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think there's ways of talking to people. You know, I really, really do. My, my profession is actually, I'm, I'm a nurse originally. And, you know, so I understand the importance of, of talking to people in a way That makes people not feel stupid and is very kind and yeah, I just think there needs to be thought sometimes. in how we, how we speak, speak to people. And as I say, especially when we're overwhelmed.
Yeah, definitely. I think it's a really interesting experience for you having now been on the other side, because obviously you had this business and you're doing your flowers and you're doing your thing, but all of a sudden you've seen what it's like. to be that client, to be on the other side of the coin and to deal with different supplies and all of those things. Is there anything else you think you've learned for your own business now having recently walked through this experience?
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I've almost got a, got a list. Of things and actually it was, it was so valuable from a business point of view, apart from the fact that I absolutely loved getting married. There was, there was so much for me sort of, you know, from advising brides now, it's really helped me because I just say to them, make your ceremony your own, you know, don't, don't Except things can't, can't be done in a way.
If I look back to the comparisons to when I got married the first time, and I was 21, and my parents were very much organising my wedding, to doing it now, there were there's regrets that I have about my first wedding and it's probably because I wasn't strong enough. You know, I wanted dried flowers in my hair. I'd seen them at a wedding show back in 1993 and I was told it couldn't be done and I didn't question that.
Now, the florist probably couldn't do that but instead of saying there's someone I can recommend, she just told me I had to have. So I think now I'm a lot stronger, and I would say to brides, really, really stick to your guns if you want things done a certain way, or if you, yes, just, if you want to make it your own, and, and don't be Bullied's the wrong word, but I think we can all, we're trying not to upset people, aren't we? I mean, it's things like guest lists and things like that.
And I really much, I very much had to stick to my guns on some things, like people who said, can we bring our dogs to the wedding? No, sorry.
No dogs at my wedding, even though we live on a farm and they were actually quite off with us and refused to come to the wedding Because we didn't let them bring their dogs But I stuck to I stuck to my guns So I think you know advice for brides So when I'm talking to brides now because you know, it's like just cuz I'm a florist I tend to talk to them about The whole wedding experience. So I very much say to them, stick to their guns.
And just being really, really specific, I think there were a couple of things that maybe I could, having said you know, there are things that are non negotiable. I don't think I was strong enough sometimes to actually really pin people down to what I want. So although I've said You know, make it your own, I still think I could have tried harder to be just be more specific.
I think I had images in my head, but I also wonder whether that's the professional then not asking the right questions to make sure I gave the answers. Does that make sense? So for example, my photographer, we had someone that was doing the photographs, and I just don't think we had enough discussions. for me to really say exactly what I wanted, but maybe they didn't ask the questions enough for me to give those answers. Does that make sense?
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And again, that's a really interesting thought, isn't it? Is, are we expecting too much from our couples? Are we leaving it too open or are we asking enough of the right questions to make sure we're clear on the vision of their day? So yeah, that makes perfect sense. And. I think what you're saying, Catherine, is we all need to go and get married again because it's the perfect customer experience to understand how we need to run our own businesses.
Or if we don't want to get married again, maybe we just need to pay attention to more of our couples who have got married and speak to them and find out what their experiences were and do a bit of market research.
To improve all of our own businesses before we bring this discussion to a close, Catherine, I really want to talk to you a little bit about representation going right back to what we were talking about at the beginning about when you were getting a wedding dress and how you weren't sure if it was for you and you, you didn't feel like you fitted the mold. Do you think there's more that wedding professionals can be doing in terms of representing your demographic and showing you in their marketing?
Yes. I, yes, I think so. And to be honest, it's something that's really gone through my head recently, even down to should I sort of start some sort of membership or group for women of my age getting married a second time around? Because there's so many issues, even down to how you involve.
The children, so that there needs to be sort of, I was so lucky our celebrant on the Saturday who was a friend who, who did that ceremony, she actually said to me, shall we get all four children to be part of the ceremony, and they can all write a speech or a poem or whatever, of of their choice and they were all really up for that and actually it's one of them, oh you're gonna make me cry, it was one of the most precious, oh god I can't believe we're all emotional, one of the most
emotional things of our wedding to have. All four children just stand up with no, no direction from, from us as to what they were going to do. So I've got a, a 27-year-old, 24-year-old, a 21-year-old, and a 12-year-old. And so they all just came at it so differently, but the amount of love shown to me and to Jonathan. My husband was just incredible. So it's things like that, that sometimes that might not be quite so simple.
I'm very lucky to have a very good relationship, but you know, with people my age, there's a lot of factors sometimes to, to consider with people getting married the second time around. And our R Age and blended families. Yeah, I think, I think there's so much that we could, we could be doing.
And I think we have to celebrate second marriages just as much as first, first marriages and as, as professionals really embrace those people as well as our first time couples and that probably comes down in our ideal client work. And I think it's something to not be forgotten.
Yeah, 100 percent I hear you on that and I think you're so right. There's a huge niche there, there's a huge market and we need to not be putting on those stereotypes like, oh it's your second wedding so it'll be smaller, or it's your second wedding so you won't want to wear white. Like why, why is it for us to say those things to people? We should be keeping our mouths shut and we should be listening to what their hopes and dreams are for that day because that is for them.
The most important day and we should be there to support and encourage them. And I think to your points about all of those things that you talked about, about, you know, what a gift that celebrant gave you to even suggest the idea.
So as wedding pros, we should be doing more research and thinking more about, okay, well, if I do have a client and it says second marriage, what are the questions that may be different that I need to be asking them or the things I could be suggesting to them to make it better? And Catherine, I think you need to start some kind of blog or podcast. for the brides of that demographic getting married for the second time. I think that would be incredible.
And I think it's an area of the market that we definitely don't have. So I'd love to see what you do in that area as well.
I, I think definitely just to act as a support for people. Yeah. And, and to show them just what they can create the second time around. Ours was incredible. I know everyone says that their wedding was incredible, but ours was phenomenal. It's been well talked about, and it was huge, and I didn't wear white. I have to say, I did draw the line at not wearing white, but yes, I think it was as special as any. first wedding.
Of course it was, and why wouldn't it be? And I need to make sure I see some pictures of it. So send me some photos so I can see all about this incredible wedding that you're part of. Catherine, it's been so fun having this conversation. I've loved talking to you about it. Thank you for your honesty, your vulnerability, and for sharing your thoughts because I know people listening, this is going to really have made them. Think differently about how they approach their marketing going forward.
I always end the podcast with the same question. So I'm going to do the same for you now, Catherine, and that's this. What's one thing you wish you'd known sooner in your own wedding business?
Oh that. That's a really tricky one for me because to be honest, there is so much I wish I'd known. I think, like I said at the start, I sort of fell into the wedding industry, so didn't plan this in such a way. I think the biggest thing I wish I'd known is to really understand about the work I can do on who my ideal client is, because I think for me. With my dried flowers, I'm, I'm really quite niche.
I suppose we all think we are in some way, but when I work with my ideal client, It is just perfect. And so for me, it's been so important to learn how to really, really get to grips with who that ideal client was or is so that I can serve them. in the best possible way.
Fantastic advice and yeah, definitely something we should all be paying attention to. Catherine, it's been so lovely chatting to you. If people want to find out more about what you do, if they want to chat with you further, where's the best place for them to find you?
I tend to spend a lot of my time on Instagram. Obviously, it's very visual, so all my flowers are there. So I'm on Instagram at Dorset Dried Flowers and also the same name, Dorset Dried Flowers. on Facebook. My website is also dorsetdryflowers. co. uk. Come and talk to me. I love chatting about everything weddings. What I've learned, I could have talked for at least another half an hour on some of the things that you can learn when you're the bride as well. So yeah, come and find me.
Fabulous. I'll make sure that I link to all of those things in the show notes so people can reach out and find you. Catherine, thank you again for being here. It's been a pleasure. I love that conversation with Catherine. Isn't she fabulous? And such an important reminder to all of us to not get stuck in our rut and not Think about all these different parts of the wedding industry that we should be representing. We should be servicing and we should be talking too.
So my job and your job for today is to reflect on this conversation and think about all of the things Catherine said and how we can start being better, kinder and implementing her ideas into our business. I'll see you next time.