So in those relationships, if you do come to that place where it blows up and it's coming to a place of separation, that's not failure, that's not unbiblical, that's not unforgiveness. Sometimes that separation is exactly what it takes to hold the unity in the bond of peace.
Well, hello again, and welcome back to the Trim the Wick podcast. I'm Dan.
And I'm Becky.
And we are with you again this week, and we are going to dive in because we've got a lot this week.
We do.
And there's, The idea of being able to solve conflict is an idea that a lot of people think that is just kind of abstract. Like you're just supposed to. As long as you can just grin and bear it, you're good to go.
We're just going to live with these things hanging over our heads in all of our relationships that we're never going to completely resolve all the way. They're just going to sit there and it's, just something we all live with. Right.
Yeah. I mean, that's what we're supposed to just do. I think the verse and the Bible, it says that, you should carry every burden that you get piled.
On top of you in every relationship you have. You should be walking on eggshells.
Yeah, I think that's in, somewhere in the book, of not actually written by God.
That's the one.
That's the one. So welcome, back and, kind of get into it this week because we want to do a quick recap of last week as we continue our series.
We've got a problem.
We do have a problem. It's because we're different people and we fight and we argue and we have all kinds of things. So we want to get into it this week because, there's a lot here, and there's also, a little bit of recapping because we've been in this series now, this is week three of our series. We've got a problem dealing with conflict and being able to reconcile conflict. And the first week we dealt with ourselves. Right.
That's right. We handled the internal conflict first and decided if this thing that we were feeling towards somebody else was actually worth approaching them about, or if the conflict was really within ourselves and it was something that we needed to surrender to God.
And then if we decide that, yes, this is something that we need to talk to the other person about, we actually need to confront the other person about, we kind of talked about this last week is that there's a little bit of a process that we really should be doing before we step into this conflicts resolution moment or this argument or whatever we're getting into right now.
Right. That our heart needs to be right before we ever go talk to them. Right. We need to approach them desiring to reconcile, not desiring to put them in their place.
Right.
And with a heart that's already decided to forgive them.
Exactly. And, you know, we talked about that. We need to be truthful.
Right. So that means when we go to them, we need to be real about that we're hurt. We need to be real about what caused the hurt.
Well, and we also need to make sure that the other party knows what happened.
Right. Because sometimes they had no clue that they hurt you.
Exactly. And, you're kind of coming out of left field, and they're like, oh, wow, I really had no idea.
Right. So we talked about approaching that without accusation.
Exactly. And then the other thing is, is then we need to listen to the other party, the other person, and listen without filters. Listening without having assumptions.
Right.
We want truthfulness, and we want it to be out in the open of what's causing this.
As we're sharing what our side is openly, we need to receive what their side is.
Exactly. And then the goal is having a heart of forgiveness and being able to say, okay, I can forgive you completely. Talk about how important forgiveness is. Forgiveness is so important for you because you're the one that's carrying all the burden of this. You're the one that's carrying the hurt. So you being able to forgive the other person is huge, and it helps you kind of lift that burden off your shoulders.
It frees you.
Exactly. That is great. And when that happens, you rejoice, you come together. You've gained a brother, a sister, you have reconciled and can move on like it never happened.
Right. So your work relationship is now no longer a tense work relationship.
Yep.
Your family relationship is more loving than it was before. You know, your friendships, you can go on and enjoy the friendship.
Yeah, exactly. Life is good, and you can go on. But, honey, sweetie, darlin'you, know, there are times when you can't come together.
Yeah. There are times when it just. The disagreement is the disagreement. Huh? Huh?
Yeah. And so what do you do? Because I think this is the situation where people are afraid to get into conflict or afraid to even try to resolve a conflict because they're afraid it's gonna blow up.
Right.
And then what do you do? Because everybody thinks of it as it is the nuclear scenario.
Right.
And how are you ever gonna show your face or how are you ever gonna see this person again? And this is where I think so many people get caught up in why they don't seek reconciliation is because they're afraid of what happens if it blows up.
Right. So. And a lot of that fear is based on not believing that they're going to be heard fully.
Right.
You know, let's be honest. Sometimes it's from past experience with the person that you're having a problem with.
Yeah.
Sometimes past experience tells you, man, this person is really rigid in how they approach things. This person doesn't hear other people's sides of stories. And so if I tell them that I'm hurt or if I tell them that there's an issue here, there is no common ground for us to find.
Yeah.
And I already am aware that if I let them know there's a problem, it's probably going to be a problem that's cemented permanently and we can't get past it.
Right. Here's the thing, is that, in all of this, this reconciliation process, this, dealing with conflict, it helps both parties being able to have that burden lifted off your shoulders. So even if it, you know, you think sometimes it's a no win scenario, like no matter what I do, they're gonna be mad at me, or no matter what I do, it's not gonna be resolved. So I'm just not even gonna bother with it, I'm not even gonna talk about it.
The problem is then that's stored away in your mind and it's a burden that you actually will carry with you. And after years and years and years of this, you start getting really callous and things that are easily solved. You won't deal with them at all. You start just shutting down and it starts affecting your relationships that you want to keep having.
Right.
Because you're not dealing with these other things well.
And I think there is this ideal that sometimes gets stuck in our heads that if we can't have full reconciliation, we're unwilling to risk coming to some form of resolution of the problem. And resolution and reconciliation are two different things.
Right.
Reconciliation is restoring it back to a full relationship. We're back to unity and walking together in oneness. Not everything can be reconciled.
Correct.
But every conflict can come to a resolution.
Yes.
It can be resolved in a way that, insofar as it's able to benefits both parties. Yes. but very often resolution instead of reconciliation leaves you with not the ideal that you were looking for.
Right.
Leaves you with some uncomfortable feelings, maybe some regrets, maybe some sadness, maybe some, change that you're gonna have to walk into, and you're a little afraid of what that's gonna look like. So. Yeah, for all those reasons, a lot of times people will look at a conflict and go, I'm not even gonna attempt to confront this conflict because I'm projecting what the outcome is gonna be, and I don't like the resolution that I can kind of forecast.
Right.
Like you're saying that still leaving it unresolved, leaves it unresolved, leaves you carrying it around.
Well, and, again, that's the thing, is that nothing is just hidden away. We think that if we just. Oh, I'm not gonna acknowledge it anymore or I'm not going to bring it up or whatever, that I'm just gonna hide it away. You continue to carry it with you.
Right.
And I think what we're learning and why you're seeing such a. A huge thing nowadays of people looking back at, well, I didn't solve this in my past, or I had this issue in my past, and I never dealt with it. And now, ten years later, I'm dealing with it.
but now I'm dealing with it in a different relationship that it's bringing all kinds of other things up in. Yeah.
Right. So this is why we wanted to. To do this series, is because we wanted to help people see that even in a situation where it cannot be reconciled, you can still resolve it, still forgive, and move on. And I think one of the stories that best explains this is Barnabas and Paul, right?
I mean, these are two guys who. They're faithful believers, right? Yeah.
I mean, they were partners, you know? I wouldn't say partners. They were partners in righteousness, right.
They were the power duo of the missions team, right. They were out there doing the do. They were facing all of the external conflict together. Right. They went into towns and they preached Jesus Christ, and they dealt with people that came against them, and they dealt with governments that came against them, and they were powerful in Christ, and they were. There was a bond between them.
Oh, yeah.
Of brothers. And this was an important relationship to both of them.
They were the original dynamic duel, Batman and Robin.
But they had a big falling out.
Well, it says that in acts that, they wanted to go on a missionary journey together.
Right. Paul was like, hey, you know, all those places that we were at, we've been hanging out here in Antioch for a while. We want to go back to all those places we had visited before and check up on them, see how they're doing.
And Barnabas was like, okay, Paul, great idea. let's gather everyone together to go on this. I'm going to go and. And I'm gonna talk to, John Mark and see if he wants to go with us.
And Paul was like, oh, no, no, no. John Mark, don't. Dude, he flaked on us.
What? But he's a good guy.
But he flaked on us. And, you know, flake on me once, shame on me. Or how's that go? Flake on me once, shame on you. Flake on me twice, shame on me.
So, yeah, so, basically, this is how the conversation probably didn't go, but this is how it breaks down as we read it in scripture, is that they have a disagreement over whether or not John Paul should go with him or John Paul.
It was not the pope, whether or not.
So they have a disagreement on whether John Mark should go with them. And Barnabas is like, mark should go with us. Paul's like, no, he shouldn't, because there's history there, and.
And I don't trust the guy.
Yeah. So now there's a disagreement between these two righteous guys, these two buddies, these two pals.
and it's not. Want to take a quick pulling away here. This is not a sin problem. Right. This is just a disagreement. They are coming at it from two different viewpoints, and there's not really a right or wrong viewpoint on this.
Right. And, you know what? Honestly, a lot of conflict are not sin problems. The majority of conflicts usually just happen because of different likes and dislikes or seeing things differently or even perceiving responsibilities differently. Majority of the conflict that you're gonna deal with is not a sin problem conflict.
Right. It's just a different personalities conflict. Barnabas got his name, you know, Barnabas the encourager.
Right?
He was an encourager. He was the guy that gives second chances and says, hey, you know what? Come up. Come alongside me, John Mark, if you come with us, I'm gonna mentor you. I'm gonna train you up. And, yeah, I know you flaked last time, but we're gonna do better this time. Right? And Paul was the hard hitting go getter that was like, I ain't got time for that. I need to know that the people that are with me
are with me 100% to 10%. And if we get thrown in jail, they gonna be right there for it.
Right. I can't have you flaking off if we're gonna be ending up in jail.
It was two different viewpoints.
Yeah.
And that's what we come up against in our workplaces. It's what we come against in our families. It's what we come up against. It's not conflict necessarily over, there's been sin committed against us. It's just we see things differently.
Yep. And this is the basis of their conflict.
Right.
The scriptures are clear that they had this conflict. They had a discussion about it.
Yeah. It says they sharply disagree.
Yeah.
And we've seen Paul's language in the scripture. Right. When he sharply disagrees, Duke can sharply disagree.
Yeah. And it's not the, toned down that you use usually hear from the pulpit.
No. He was a lawyer among lawyers, and he had firm grasp of the language, and he was going to cut you off at the knees with his words when he sharply disagreed.
So Paul goes, well, I'm not going to do this. He's not coming with us. And Paul kind of draws the line and Barnabas says, well, he is going with us. So now you have the situation where there's no reconciliation that's going to happen.
We are at an impasse now.
This is when it is blown up. This conflict now has reached that point where it's like, okay, where do we go from here?
where they went from here is Barnabas and John Mark boarded a ship and went in one direction. And Paul said, hey, Silas, you want to be my new partner? And they went off in another direction.
But wait a second. Isn't that wrong? I mean, shouldn't have they come to the conclusion that they should have worked this out and that, in the end they were doing it together?
Well, sometimes. Okay, so we are told to seek the unity of peace among the brethren. Right?
Yeah.
These are brothers. We've watched their missionary journey, and in this conflict, they are brothers. They loved each other. They had a common purpose. They love God, and they are called according to his purposes. Right.
Yeah.
They needed to seek unity in the bond of peace. The most unified thing they could do was come to a place where they were like, listen, we cannot continue forward.
Right.
Without one of us conceding something that we deeply believe is right. You know, Barnabas is going. I believe it is right for John Mark to come and be trained up, and I'm not willing to forfeit that. And Paul said, I believe it is right for him not to come with us because I don't think he's got what it takes where we're going.
Right.
They were not going to come to oneness on that. There was not going to be unity in that, so there was not going to be peace. The way that they chose to have unity in the bond of peace was for each one of them to do what was right from their position and to go forward into the mission field where they were called and with whom they were called. But to separate from one another.
Yep.
But there is nothing in the scripture that says that they no longer loved each other. No, there is nothing in the scripture. You don't find an account. And Paul was good at warning the brethren against people. Right. He said, this one's a wolf in sheep's clothing. This one, you know, beware of this one. They're out there doing this, that, and the other. You don't find Paul warning anybody against Barnabas, do you?
Well, he actually even talks, good about Barnabas and about John Mark in one of the letters to Timothy.
Right. So what we see is, yes, they separated their day to day working relationship on the mission field.
Right.
because they both had very, very strong convictions about what that day to day working relationship should look like. And they both had to be true to their own convictions. So they separated. But they separated in order to maintain the bond of peace between them.
Right.
I can love you, but I don't have to come to the same workplace as you.
Yeah.
I can care about you deeply and go, you know what? maybe we don't need to do that activity together anymore.
Yeah. Well, this makes me think of one of the examples in my own life. When I was working for a gentleman in, Fort Worth, I was hired under a certain thing. I was supposed to be able to be off on certain nights because of other responsibilities with the church and things that I was doing, and was constantly being told I needed to work late, I needed to work these nights. I confronted him and was basically saying, listen, I can't work these nights.
This was the hiring agreement. And he was like, well, I need you to work these nights. And believe it or not, it actually blew up to a point where we actually had a pretty heated discussion over the phone. I ended up having to go in the next day and I quit my job. And I gave him two weeks notice. And I told him, listen, this is not going to work for me anymore. I cannot do this under these
circumstances. Whatever. the other thing was, this was, ah, the owner of the business was a member of our church.
That's right. We saw him every week.
Let him know, hey, love you. As a brother. I don't want this to come, an issue between us moving forward, but I can't continue to do this. So I gave my two weeks and stepped aside and found another job. And I understand not everybody can do that on, that quick of a notice or that quick of a situation. But that is kind of how this is put into practice in the real world.
Right? These principles are, again, we've come to this conflict with a heart of forgiveness. We've come to this conflict with a heart of reconciliation. We're not coming to be right and put others in their place. We're coming to find a way forward that maintains unity and oneness as much as we possibly can.
Right.
And sometimes the. As much as we possibly can looks like, yeah, it's restored all the way. Sometimes the as much as we possibly can is, I have come to you with appropriate attitude.
Right.
I have listened to you without assumptions. We have come to a place where it is clear that there is not going to be a common ground reached.
Right.
And so the, way forward, the insofar as we are able to walk in peace, looks like us parting ways in an area, but us parting ways again with right attitudes towards one another without me going out and trash talking you to everybody that will listen, without me going onto all the social media accounts or if it's a business, you know, going on to all the reviews and just making sure that you're slammed in every corner so that not only do we break relationship in the day to day, but, you
know, I'm gonna harm your business. I'm not seeking to do harm as I'm walking out of this day to day that we have had at this point, right, when our relationships come to a place where there needs to be some form of a separation or some form of a walking away, we need to do that with the fruits of the spirit flowing through us.
Right? And this is where, again, and you're going to hear us say this so many times, this is, again, where you've got to rely on the Holy Spirit working through you and displaying the fruit through you. Situations where you don't want to be patient, you don't want to be caring, you don't want to have.
I don't want to be kind and.
Gentleness and have self control or show love. This is where the Holy Spirit takes over and you do supernatural things that in your carnal self, you wouldn't be doing.
So does that mean that when we have these discussions, we never raise our tone of voice, we never use strong language we never get frustrated and visibly angry.
No. see, here's the thing. This is where that struggle within and you're, still being, you're still hurting and you're still, you're wanting holy spirit to work through you in self control. This is an emotional moment because there is a relationship that's breaking down and it hurts. Yeah.
If we are being truthful in our communication with the other person, sometimes the truth is that we are frustrated. The truth is that we are angry. And that comes with vocal range and that comes with emotions. are not sin. We are told to be angry, but sin not.
Right.
Okay. So, being angry in a confrontation is not in and of itself sin. Where it becomes sin is when we start losing that self control and start lashing out and seeking to harm the other person.
Right.
So that's not the kind of blow up that we want to be part of.
No.
Again, insofar as it is up to us, we need to seek peaceable resolutions, even when those resolutions to our conflicts mean walking away from a situation.
Right. Well, and here's one of the other things that I think we need to also address on this, is that the vain arguments, oh my goodness, they're rampant, aren't they? Sometimes when you get in a situation and the other person just starts going off and going off and going off and going off. And there are times I know for myself where I kind of shut down. And just go, you know what? Now we've moved to the point where we're no longer trying to reconcile or trying to come to
an agreement or trying to. It has now gone to that level of vain argument.
Right. Where somebody's trying to be right.
They're just, someone's trying to win the day, you know, they, they just need to win the day, you know, sometimes it's just better to go, you know what? I'm not going to get involved in this. You don't need to tell them that because you're just going to get a mad, Madder. But you just shut it down and either try to change the subject, try to whatever, or just try to separate.
Yourself, sometimes just walk away.
And a lot of times that's what I do. I literally will just kind of say, oh, okay, well, you know, thank you for your time, and then just walk away.
And honestly, that's something that you have historically been much better at than I have been. That's a learned discipline in my life because truth is very, very important to me. And when somebody is really hammering in and trying to go. No, you know, I'm right. I'm right. I'm right. When they're very clearly wrong, my, flesh goes, oh, no, see, I'm good at this, right? I can delineate very clearly, point by point, in painful detail,
exactly where you're not correct. And I can leave you sliced by my words into ribbons, and I can walk away headheld high, knowing you have been corrected. And now, now we're going to do the resolution part of separating. But I've left you bloodied on the floor.
Right.
And it has been a discipline in my life to go, that's not the Holy Spirit. That is my flesh wanting to gain the upper hand. And I don't need that.
Right? And again, it's that thing of there's no winners unless you both win.
Right.
You know, when it comes to conflict or whatever there is that there is in this situation, there's no winners.
So in those relationships, if you do come to that place where it blows up and it's coming to a place of separation, that's not failure, that's not unbiblical, that's not unforgiveness. Sometimes that separation is exactly what it takes to hold the unity in the bond of peace.
Right? There's that thought that if you didn't come together completely, that it's a failure. And then someone is in sin, and someone. But as we see through Barnabas and Paul, neither one of them were in sin.
No, they just had a disagreement.
Neither one of them failed. They had a disagreement, and they still loved each other, and they moved on, and all was good.
They maintained unity, and they both. God was, because they didn't sit there in a violently tense relationship, that they just gutted it out with one another because they said, you know what? We will agree to disagree, but it means we can't work together anymore. They both went. And now the Lord was able to use both of them.
Right.
To train up two other people. Right now we've got Silas partnered with Paul. We've got John Mark partnered with Barnabas. So we're both now training other people up. And the work of the ministry, the mission of reconciliation, now has been multiplied because instead of staying and contending for their rightness, they said, you know what? I love you, brother, but we're gonna have to walk in different directions.
Yeah.
And it's okay.
It is okay. And I wish that we had more people who would see it that way, who wouldn't condemn the separation, because I do think that God can use both parties absolutely and so many times one ends up tearing down the other, and.
It should not be.
No. The last thing we wanted to talk about is, what do you do in the situation of a marriage? Because, you know, husbands and wives, believe it or not, they do have.
Conflict, but they always reconcile it, right?
Oh, yeah. Every time.
Every single time. Right back on the same page.
That's why people, you know, go crazy when the toothpaste is being squeezed from the middle and not the bottom, because every. Because every argument's reconciled, everything's good. So something simple like the toothpaste being squeezed differently, shouldn't cause a divorce. But we get there.
Here's the situation is that there's a difference between husband and wife than just your friends or your brothers and sisters in Christ because of that covenant relationship between the husband and the wife and God.
Yeah. There's their deeper responsibility to one another. There is a union that no other relationship in your life experiences.
Right.
Paul and Barnabas were one in the ministry. They were one in Christ as brothers in Christ. But they were not one flesh, right. Husband and wife. The scripture says the two become one. We, as married couples in a covenant relationship with God, are bound together tighter than any other relationship.
So when we're talking about a husband and wife coming together and having an argument or having a fight, and then they can't resolve it because of this covenant relationship, because of what they've chosen to do and what they've entered into with God, is that there's a higher responsibility to solve this conflict, not to just let it go, not to just put it away, to pull it out another day when the toothpaste is being squeezed differently, but it's to be
solved. We want to stress, because we want to say there's a difference between having arguments and disagreements and conflict and abuse or actual sin in the relationship.
Right? So when we're talking about that, the responsibility of married partners to seek reconciliation, not simply resolution and separation, we're talking about that deeper call in the context of a conflict, of a disagreement. We, can't decide where we're supposed to live. We can't decide what job we're supposed to have. We're having trouble coming to the same page about our parenting techniques.
Right?
Pick a conflict point. That's what we're talking about. We are not talking about one of the partners actively sinning against, the other. We're not talking about cheating, we're not talking about adultery, we're not talking about physical abuse. We're not talking about those things, because a partner who is sinning against their marital partner is actively breaking that covenant.
Right.
And so there's a whole different set of biblical principles that address that. We're gonna set those on a shelf for now.
Yeah.
And we may come back and do a podcast on that separately, but we want you guys to understand that's not what we're addressing here. We are in zero ways telling you that simply enduring an abusive relationship because you're married is the way you're supposed to handle that kind of, conflict. That's not we're saying. But back to what you were saying about marital conflict, where you can't come to reconciliation, where you're just on different pages.
Right.
What do we do there?
Well, this is where, again, I think the responsibility of the covenant relationship means you have to go the extra mile to work it out. You have to go the extra mile to solve, to the best of your ability. Now, does that mean you have to sit down one evening and get it all done before the next day?
No.
No, that's not. Because, number one, you would never get anything accomplished if that's what you were doing in your marriage, because trust me, you're going to have lots of conflict through the years. But what you need to do is you need to make sure that you are actively solving and seeking a resolution to that conflict. Now, sometimes that might mean getting a counselor involved,
right? Going to see a pastor who is trained in marital counseling, going and seeing a professional, a christian counselor, that can help you through that process, because some of these things are big, some of these conflicts are very big, and they need to be handled. and there are professional people go to school who know how to handle and help you through that process.
Right. Sometimes it takes that wise counsel outside of yourselves to help you through those steps that we've talked about. Sometimes in a marriage, the reason that you're having trouble coming to reconciliation or even any kind of resolution is that there isn't truthfulness being shared or there isn't listening and, hearing one another. And you need somebody to come in and help you recognize where those sticking points are, so that you can solve
them. And again, in the marriage relationship, it's important to work through those things in any relationship. But in the marriage relationship, because it is a covenant, because the two have become one, it is imperative that you go beyond, beyond to work it out and to come to a place where you are hearing each other and being one with each other.
Wow. So it's a lot.
We told him it was going to be a lot.
We did. And, we want to encourage you because Becky and I have been married for over 33 years, and we know there's going to be lots of conflict in your life. you are going to come across things that you would think were the simplest things, are going to cause conflict with other people, and being able to resolve those things properly, being able to reconcile those things effectively, are going to kind of change your world because it
lifts a huge burden off you. It helps you and your relationships with other people, because you're always honest with that other person. you're not hiding something. You're not on eggshells. You're not, you know, you're not walking around thinking, oh, should I say something? This or should I say, not say that? Because I don't want to trigger this. I don't want to trigger this. And me, you know, there's that. That mental game that you play when you're carrying something against another person.
You get to put down the self protective shield if you are walking in.
Resolved relationships and you don't have to wear a mask, and you can breathe.
A lot better without that covering your face, can't you?
Yes. Oh, we kind of learned about that in the last few years. But we want to just encourage you to use these principles that we've been teaching you guys over the last three episodes. You know, they're not a checklist. Everything's not going to go exactly as we said, provide guidance so that you can navigate through, you know, these situations.
People can be messy.
Yes. And it's not always. It's not always easy just living this thing called life.
It's not.
We want to thank you guys so much for hanging out with us. we would love to hear your comments, on this series because, we know that this is a hard hitting one. We know that this, affects everybody.
It does.
So we would love to hear your comments on that. we would also love, if this is really ministering to you and you're enjoying this, we would love for you to follow us on Instagram, rimthewicglobal and be a part of our community.
Absolutely. And, you know, through this series, if it has, brought to mind an instance where God has just really intervened in a conflict that you've had, share that testimony with us in the comments. You know, let's encourage one another with the fact that we can all come through these things.
That's all we got for you this week.
We'll see you next week.
All right. Love you. Bye.