Filmed On Location: What TV Tells Us About Who We Are

Chris Rock was my husband. I'm Khalil Gibrad Muhammed and I'm Ben Austin. We're two best friends, one black, one white. I'm a historian and I'm a journalist. And this is some of my best friends are. Some of my best friends are dot dot dot. In this show, we wrestle with the challenges and the absurdities of a deeply divided and unequal country. And in this episode we are talking

about two of our favorite television shows right now. They tell us so much about how places themselves, like cities, play a huge part in how we understand the divisions in our country and how we might come together. They give us so much joy and we want you to enjoy them too. Man, TV as knowledge. I like this Kalila Entertainment. We got it before we get started. I just wanted to let you know this episode has some strong language. Just a fair warning, but stick around something

not only what's up, Kalila, How you doing. I'm good, man, I'm good. Loved what you just said about TV shows, you know where they're set, being like a character in itself and being so important to the actual story. Yeah, to how we understand, like you know, who we are and our neighbors and even what informs how we think about the world. And I love movies like that. I love TV shows like that. I love books like that.

But I'm thinking about TV shows that are set in a certain place and how there's a pleasure when you're familiar with the place to see to see the familiar. And you know, we have both seen Abbot Elementary set in Philadelphia, in an elementary school there. Oh man, it's great, And just like recognizing the flavors of Philadelphia with the attitudes and the food, the food, like the aspects of

a place. Yes, and a show that friends turned me onto a couple of years ago, The Ozarks and I was very slow to watch it, but oh my god, I'm like totally immersed in this other world that I've never been to, never thought about going to, and the place is so much a part of what makes that show work. Yeah, and so that's another idea, like you're actually using that show to travel summer you've never been

in to learn about it. That's right. And sometimes of course you're you're learning things that actually don't aren't very representative of it, are No. No, there's this danger of like a Hollywood version of a place where it's a total caricature and it's misleading. And then there are all shows that were like are very organic and made by

local artists and it's it's the real real. And actually that's a good point because if you think about it, when you don't actually know a place very well, you can't actually evaluate what's going on, what are the interventions, what are the writers trying to tell us about this place that we didn't already know? Boom, And that's why we're here today because we're going to talk about two Chicago TV shows. Yep, So we're going to talk about

HBO Max's original series called south Side. It is a comedy send up of this predatory lending furniture place called Rent to Own, and we learned so much about so many different types of Chicago INDs and also just like the crazy stuff that happens in a city when folks are trying to get their hustle on. And in the second part of the show, we're going to talk about a TV show called The Bear, which is on x Hulu.

I love that show and it's actually sort of setting a kind of ambiguous near North side of Chicago inside an Italian beef shop. And as a guest today, this is amazing. We have on Jay Nicole Brooks, who is an actor on the South Side. She's not on The Bear, but she's an amazing Chicago an amazing Chicago actor, writer,

intellectual creator, playwright. Yes, and she and I actually met several years ago when I finished my book about Cabrini Green, you know, this public housing development on the near North side of Chicago known for its infamy, because she was writing a play about Jane Byrne, Chicago's mayor, who moves into Cabrini Green into an apartment in nineteen eighty one, and I had a whole chapter in my book about that, and so here she and I are getting together and

like chopping up, like how we each came at this story from like, you know, a narrative nonfiction way, from a totally like fictional theatrical way, and you know, we just totally hit it off because we doing the same work. And how Chicago matters so much to the stories that you tell from very different approaches. Yeah, that the meaning of the place is so significant. So let's just jump in with Jane Nicole Brooks and ye, because she's amazing. I love it. Let's do it. Well, Hello, it's great

to see you. It's great to have you on. Likewise, I'm so so happy to be here and kick it what y'all? Thank you. You are the bomb dignity. But I'm not sure what to call you for this interview. I mean, I know your name is Jane Nicole Brooks, but what do you go by? It depends on the situation. You know, if you are like a white person that owns a corporation and I owe you money, is probably Dianna. If you are in the arts as Jaye Nicole Brooks, and if you're friends, you can call me Slick, So

please call me slick. All right, Slick, I like that we are gonna art by playing a clip from the HBO comedy The South Side, from a little moment that you're in one of the episodes, Alixander, good night. Can I help me? Olivia? I'm a pa oh. I thought thea were usually kind of on the you know, fresh out of college, kind of a younger reconde. Okay, well I'm a late blooman, get off my dinner, getting off your dick, and I'm off of it. Can I help you? So? Uh? Slick?

I mean basically, I'm playing that because we're gonna we want to get on your metaphorical dick here a little bit and and and talk to you at first about like who you are professionally, all the amazing stuff that you you've accomplished. Can you describe yourself as a Chicago actor and writer and creator? As far as my history here in Chicago, I'm born and raised here, and uh, I studied theater and performance and dance since I was fifteen. And though I've lived in Los Angeles and New York,

Chicago has always planned at home. And after years of being away and hustling all over, Chicago is pretty much the place where my acting career sort of took a pop and started climbing to places where I didn't quite know it would And it's been I don't know, it's been a beautiful joy in one of those places with Southside. So you've been on the Southside, What else have you been on? I'm also what we call a recurring character, a guest star recurring on Chicago Fire. I play well

currently like one of the highest ranking characters. I play DC Hills, So she's the deputy commissioner over the entire fire department. Right, all right, hey, pop um, you know I like I like telling people what to do because we know how black women in Chicago have risen to

the highest ranks of the Chicago Fire Department. Absolutely, and you know what, that role is actually inspired by actual individuals, So shout out to all of the black films and women that are first responders and then the fire department. So there's that. I've also played a cap on the first two seasons of The Shy. I played a character called Sergeant Clements. She was a sergeant in the police department. Yeah, we love that show. Well, I should say I love

The Shy. Just amazing don't speak for me. Yea, the acting, the storytelling, the writing, and another show with a lot of complexity about black people. I mean, I think that's one of the things that makes The Shy so interesting. Yes, you know, as an actor, I have my experiences. As a writer, I might have other thoughts as a creative, you know what I mean, Love it or not love it? Any of these shows that are set in Chicago, the ones I've been involved with, have really been a great

joy to work on. And it's just always funny to me how you know, Like we have our opinions about how they're done, and I got plenty of them, you know. So I'm a Chicago and I love my city. But I haven't lived in Chicago since I was twenty two years old. And one of the things that Ben and I talk a lot about is like what this city means to us as the shared place that helped us become the adults we are and the writers we are and the people who care deeply about you know, really

big questions. I'm curious for you though, since you have lived over the places, what is it about Chicago and your artistry that is so compelling? Oh sweet baby, mallord. Okay, first of all, you know, first of all, I think that when you are fortunate enough to be born and bred here, there's a certain pride that you grow up with. And I don't care what the industry is or what a category might be. It's like Chicago over everything everywhere, you know, And it's also like we're Midwestern and so

we're nice, tough guys. I think. I like that. Let me ask a related question, which is, you know, you're also a playwright and a screenwriter. I mean, so you're writing stories about Chicago. What are like the representations of Chicago that you're sort of like working against that you're trying to subvert. You know that these depictions of the city that are out there in TV and film and plays that you're like, I am going to show something

that's different or more complicated or other. Well, Ben, I definitely feel you know, I feel like you and I have so much in common, you know what I mean, like coming from some of the same parts of town and growing up in the same way. So I don't know if these are some of the things that you feel as a creator, but for me personally, I feel like there's so many other cities across the nation, and when it comes to home and TV and things like that,

we know their personalities. Yeah, And I feel like with the city of Chicago, when it's represented on screen, we don't always get a sense of the personality. And it's often because it's people that are creating it and don't know shit about the city. So what are they showing instead? Oh my god, they're showing Chicago and Toronto. And I get that that's a protos oial thing. I get it, but it's visually missing the grit and the gorgeous, fucked

up architecture. I know when I'm looking in New York, I know when I'm looking at la I know when I'm looking at Paris. But sometimes when I look at Chicago, is it a surface thing? Why set something in Chicago? What idea they're going at? And then like, how do you like use Chicago Differently? If you don't understand how this city came to be, you really won't get the nuance of it. So for me, I'm a history nerd, and I care about what was in existence before I

came along because that adversely affects my work. So sometimes in my work it might be like an Easter egg is just something you kind of see. And I know, as a writer and as a creator, I don't really give a fuck if you don't understand a Chicago joke. I don't give a fuck if you don't understand something that is uniquely Chicago, because I'm writing for Chicago's interesting, And if you are a good writer, I'm gonna just like leave it at this. If you're a good writer,

you can really achieve the universal through the specific. So keep your ship laser focus and give me something that I actually can get behind and believe, because otherwise you're giving me procedural drama that I like being on. I like those shows because they pay well. But like you know, give us some nuance because we it's what's there. So if you understand the hyper segregation, it's going to filter

into your work. If you understand that, like we have gangster mayors and always have, it's going to go into the work or whatever, and gangster governors. We have had so many jailbird governors, you know. Well, speaking of keeping it real in terms of the nuances of Chicago. After the break, we're gonna come back and talk about this amazing show that you've been part of South Side. The show just dropped its third season, so when we come

back more on the south Side. So you are bringing up shows that feel like authentically Chicago and that are grappling with sort of all the hyper segregation and all the other issues of the city. And so we have this comedy that we want to talk about the South Side on HBO and it's set in Englewood and Englewood.

You and I have both written about Cabrini Green. Englewood is like the new Cabrini Green is sort of like a shorthand, and the way people think of Chicago a shorthand for like crime, segregation, mostly black neighborhood, to think about total separation, to think about like the scariest parts of the city. And this comedy is really like anything but that it does deal with poverty, segregation, crime policing, but in a way that sort of subverts all of

these unbiased but we want that, we want that. I'm extraordinarily proud of this team because they are not only writing about it, they film in these communities, They film on the West Side, they film all over the South Side, and they get into places where I've known other creative teams and crews where they're like, oh, we can't get the insurance, we don't feel safe there and it's not safe. And I'm like, well, why are these guys able to

do it? And I think it's because you have to forge a relationship with communities, and I've watched these guys do that. I'll tell you super quick anecdote. The first time I auditioned for Southside is an actor. I heard about the script and then I was like, all right, this is a comedy in Chicago is probably not going to make it past pilot because no one gives Chicago a chance. Like I'm like, Chicago has the funniest motherfuckers on the planet, yet we don't have comedies here, blah

blah blah. So I get the sides and I'm like, oh, this scene is kind of funny. I was like, damn, this scene is really funny. Yeah, damn, this seems real real. So I was like, you know what, is probably gonna go to a Hollywood big name, so fuck it. I don't care. I'm gonna show up and be a chice cargo as I can because I'm not gonna get it. So I showed up in do Rag my Jordan's I had on my my Bulls jersey and like, I just gave it to him. I was like, fuck it, I'm

not gonna get it. And they're probably gonna say, we don't understand your vernacular. And if you you thought it was gonna go to knee along, listen, if I ever in my lifetime lose a role to knee along, trust me, I'm getting that tattooed on my forehead. She lost the role to you. Come on, let's go, let's shout out to knee along. But my point of that story is that not only in that audition process with the director, writers, and a couple of producers, not only were they into

it and encouraged it. I booked the part and then I'm like, Okay, the network is going to say, now we got to change it, but it's Comedy Central. They don't give a fuck. So it was on Comedy Central, and then it got picked up by HBO initially, and then it got picked up by HBO. Max Yeah, and you get on the set and you're like, oh my god, they're gonna let me be my authentic self. They're gonna let Chicago be Chicago. And once you like sink into it and relax. The show just really flies because it's

honest to itself. It's not trying to write Chicago so that the entire world understands it. It's just what it is, and you just got to catch up to it. I just smile brightly because I think that's really dope and not always the case. Yeah, well, I love that you're speaking to this kind of authenticity about the way that the South Side is depicted in Inglewood, being this community that I was often written out is a dangerous place

that one should go to about. I don't know. Seven years ago, I was invited to the culinary school that was built as part of Kennedy King College there and it was the first time that I had actually done anything professionally in Inglewood, and I thought, this is amazing that there's this cooking school in this community that people think, you know, you should do everything in your power to avoid if you don't happen to live there. So you're

absolutely right. This community is way more rich and compelling than we often think about. But the show itself, which I just love, is to me like a cross between the Office and like The Odyssey, because every episode is an adventure that these guys have to overcome some set of obstacles, some set of challenges. All of the main characters come on, man, shout out to Homer. Okay, come on with the Year of Joy in my groove, y'all,

let me finish. So there's all these anti stereotypes and we just absolutely love this for what it does to make complex the brilliance of black people in that city. I'm gonna tell you something. As an actor, I'm like, if I don't get a chance to do another that that's set in Chicago, I still feel like I won.

On the first season The South Side, my character was in an episode called The Day of the Jordans Drop and it's literally the you know, it's all about the Jordans and yeah, new a new version of the or Jordan's coming out. Hey, look, brou if it was any other day, we will pull over. I mean, but he them new Jordans is coming out, and we got to get back west and finished this all up before the hit sales out. Hey what if I told you there's a store near you right now that never sails out where?

Really I get stuff up trying and it's just such a Chicago hilarious episode. So it was just a lot of fucking fun to do it in this way. You had talked about how the specific can be universal, and certainly, like the three of us all had these roots not

just in Chicago but on the South Side. And so I watched this show and even as a white dude who grew up in the South Side, it just speaks to me and like all these like you know, arounds are popping right, Like they talk about the stuck up girls at Kenwood High School where we went to, you know, we went to Kenwood, and not just that I'm married my prom date, you know, like like I'm still married to this dug up girl from Keo who's amazing and wonderful, Danielle,

I love you. But they're all kinds of Chicago things like that. There's this one scene we're about to play a clip from where one of the characters is inside a Harold's Chicken Shack and he wants more of their famous Mile sauce, you know, which is like this mixture of tangy barbecue sauce, and the woman behind the bulletproof glass is refusing to give him more. Thank you, kind sir, Can I have five more mile sauces. I really loved the stuff. Hey Donovan, yo talk about he want five

mile sauces, five five law sauces. This is always you three piece of white No he happiness a day man. I love that clip. I have lived that experience inside Harold's no doubt. But there are all these other kinds of Chicago things, which is just amazing. There's an episode that uses the idea of DIBs, which is, you know, on a snowy day, when you clear the walk in front of your house, you start putting your furniture out there to make sure that nobody else parks in your spot.

It is totally Chicago gangster. And there are all these other Chicago things too. There's an episode on stepping, which is a kind of local dancing and house music, and and Khalil loves golf. I know that Khalil loves golf. Yeah, there's the scene of Jackson Park, which of course probably the most dangerous golf course in America. It's like literally the journey from I believe Whole number nine to Whole

number ten. You you cross a kind of a baby highway, and that's a that's a plot point in the show, and you know there's like there's like a riff on Italian Fiesta. Chance the rapper actually makes a really good joke about like how depressed he is. He's like, my favorite restaurants Italian Fiesta. I'm sad, to be honest, I hate my life. Why do I have to name tags on They both say currency exchange. My favorite restaurant is Italian Fiesta on the South Side. Love that place. Some

two words don't go together. Absolutely, one is Italian, one is Mexican. That's joke ever, but you know, so throwing that back on you, like national audience is listening to this and being like, I don't get all the references. Is there a butt to that? But I didn't grow

up in Queens and I catch all jokes. Yeah yeah, but I didn't grow up in Brooklyn, And you know what I mean, That's just what I feel about it, Or New Jersey and I'm watching the Sopranos or like absolutely which exit I don't fucking know shit about Jersey, Like you know what I mean? So like, I feel like, as a viewer, we are trained to accept the personalities of other cities, and so now I honestly feel like

Southside is taking a charge in training. And I say that lovingly and respectfully, but like really grabbing the viewer, like yoking them up and saying, catch up. This is Chicago, this is what we do. Yeah. And if you don't understand the Kimwood references and like, the show just doesn't care. And to me, the show does the best with clowning because if you're a true clown. I've set this so many times before. I mean it, A true clown doesn't do a joke for a setup. A clown just stays

in it. And if they happen to get the laugh, great, but the clown has to keep going. And that's the fucking difference you deliver the next joke. Yeah, you gotta keep going. Yeah, that's a beautifully put that. We learned something from that about how to Yeah. So I feel like Bob Newhart and you know, the creative team behind

south Side like both, well fucking done. And so when they invited me back the second season to be in this episode that's a take on Ferris Bueller's Day Off, which I grew up just like totally idolizing that movie, I was like, god, damn, I won again. I just grew up a nerd for that movie and knowing every line and all of it. So it was just a lot of fucking fun to do it. So in this episode, Brenda and Turner's Day Off, it is a total parody of the nineteen eighty six film Fairest Bueller's Day Off,

starring Matthew Broderick and your character Olivia. Like everyone in the film is trying to find Brenda, who is the fairest in this story. It's awesome. It's about black nerds. I just love that these guys are sitting around. It's white guys as black guys. They're on the set and out of nowhere, this conversation unfolds about a book called Web of Stars Saga One Quantum Tunnel, a story about Shakiare, a space miner stuck on a dead end rock. I mean,

come on, you can't make this stuff up. And they play this scene to the t and here's the clip. Let me just go ahead and dive in. I didn't like you, his subhuman identical doppelganger. I mean, he's evil, he's ugly, his girlfriend is deeply unhappy with his penis. Every fight he gets into he gets to quote greenshit unquote beat outible. A good villain is supposed to be the hero of his own story, but this guy's a disappointment to himself. I mean, it's catch phrases. Why am

I so whack Chicago over everything? All day? Those actors are just so genius and they all Chicago man, So I just gotta keep I'm gonna wave that flag. I don't care. I love that scene. When Kleil and I started talking about the show, this is the piece of it that he kept on coming back to. Yeah, and you know, because it's about black nerds, you identified, Yeah, it's it's about black nerves. It's okay, fine, I missed that, got it. I don't know how they got through that scene.

I mean, like, like seriously, those are comic geniuses who are talking about and that's why this scene is so perfect because it's for the black nerds. So it's like it's that hood shit and then it's that nerd shit, and it's all coming into one. Yeah. Yeah, So how did you see this episode? In conversation with that movie? She has to go and chase after the lead act. So in a way, it feels like the character Rooney

that's chasing after Ferris. It also feels like this completely made up character, which it is, and there was a

lot of freedom in that. But it's also Ferris's sister Olivia in this particular episode of Southside is pulling from a lot of the characters in the original movie, and I was a little intimidated by it, to be honest with you, and I just want to lean into this a little more because in whatever it is, like twenty something minutes, there's sort of like a scene for seeing, you know, recreation of Ferris Bueller's day off, but in

a sort of black context, a Chicago black context. Instead of going a Cubs game, they go to a Socks game, yes, as they should. Instead of going to the Art Institute, they go to the Disable Museum of African American History, which I love, absolutely love. There's just a beautiful scene there. It's like, you know, lyrical. Actually it's a silent moment

where they're just looking at the art. I love that because, first of all, I had the great pleasure of meeting Margaret Burrows, the founder of the DuSable Museum, when I was eight years old. You know, she was an educator and she also went to my grammar school and so like, I've known some of these heroes my entire life. So we grew up going to the Dussable Museum. I held hands with my first boyfriend on the field trip at the DuSable Museum. I know, shout out to you, Brian Daniels.

So those things are iconic, but you don't see it on film. Yeah, yeah, So seeing it in this episode it gives me a lot of pleasure and joy and I'm like, see how hard that was? Not? Yes, there's one more famous scene to shout out. So everyone listening to this who is of a certain generation remembers the famous scene and faris Bueller when he's not in school

that day. Of course. It's it's in the opening first quarter of the film, and his teacher is calling out his name and it's very monotone, Bueller Bueller, Bueller Bueller. So so there's there's a riff on that obviously in south In this episode of south Side, it's out a white Sox game. There's actually a sock full of French fries there. And she's also calling somebody's name who is Bulah with a you know, like like Bullah shoot Smith to school right next to my house, Bula Bulla, somebody

name last a woman's first names. Yeah, oh man, it's so so good. I was just gonna say one last thing about this. You know, you were talking about clowning, and you're talking about you know, Cleil, you were even talking about the shows that you think is like and South Side feels like the Simpsons, Like they're all of these personalities that are characters in and I'm of cells and they populate this world. It happens to be Englewood on the South Side of Chicago, and in all of

its details too, it really is that place. But it also feels like these humans who were like animated and alive and like you can connect with them in a way that you were saying, slick no matter where you're from or where you're connecting to this show. I think that that is so accurate. And on point one day, talking to their main director, Michael Blyden is just super smart and a nice guy. He actually described it as

such that it was like the Simpsons. Some of these characters appear and reappear, and they have you know, they come in different forms, and that to me, that feels like a creative team that's thoughtful because they're creating an ensemble. So you might see an actor in one season as one character and then they come back another season on

South Side and they're a completely different character. And it's the testament to uh, not only the skill set of the actor, but like the show doesn't take itself too seriously, but it also is like, I don't know, building this crazy multiverse, and I'm into it. So yeah, I think your dad, you're spot on, Ben. So we're gonna talk about another show set in Chicago. FXI show on Hulu called The Bear. We'll be right back after the break, all right, So we're gonna talk about The Bear here, guys.

And this is another show set in Chicago. It just finished its first season, and the premise of the show this guy Carmen. He comes back home to run the family's Italian beef shop. You know, carlimanbra Speedina. Can you start new shot in there from I need my fellow first, Jeff Carliman beef It had potentials. We have sister, but you could punch him, blanche him, freez him frying before

the beach. Right, Okay, his brother has died by suicide and his brother had run this Italian beef shop, and now Carmen is back in Chicago, this high end chef who was working in New York City, and now he wants to run the Italian beef place like it's like it's a Michelin Star restaurant. He doesn't exactly want to run it, but he has to run it. Carmi, the main character, aka the Bear that's his family nickname, is this really troubled soul. He's come from the highest end

of the cooking world. He's been to the top of the mountain, and he's basically had his butt kicked. His self esteem is at its slowest, and he finds himself inheriting the family business. And it's a shit show. They just got a C rating from the Board of Health, so they're they're barely making it. I mean, do you love this show as much as we do? I have such a this role reaction to this show because I

felt like it snatched my wig off. I was like, God, damn, I'm not even wearing one today, and this is snatching off the good place front. What is this short answer? Yes, it's a good goddamn show, all right. Usually I watched a show with a stank. I especially when it's in Chicago, because I'm like, how come Nane call me and I don't like that shit? No way, Um, I'm just kidding, but I absolutely love that show. That show is definitely written for me for so many different reasons. I have

worked in the restaurant world as a server. Oh wow. I'm definitely someone who grew up in kitchens. I come from three generations of cooks. Like I grew up in a household where you could not be in the kitchen with my mother unless you were talking about food or unless you were chopping. There was no like no, And I'm in the same way when I'm in the kitchen. Let's talk more about this sense of setting in city.

Doesn't matter that this show is set in Chicago, Like, you know, could it be set somewhere else or is that part of its meaning? You could argue that this show could be set in Philadelphia. M I see why you're picking Philly. It's like you can it's a it's a blue collar, tough town as cold as this. It's like you could swap out the Italian beef arguably for a Philly cheese steak. This that's just an example, but

the Italian beef is a superior sandwich. Okay, just for the record, Just for the record, And I understand why it's set in Chicago. Really, are you really are living and die in Chicago? Yeah? I think this show is very Chicago. I also if you just like look at it, like just take the pilot episode and you just step back from a technical standpoint, Yes, Like the character comes in, he has there's this expository information we don't know too much about. He has a challenge, he has to figure

the shit out. He goes through the bullshit with the team, and then at the end of the episode he's like, fuck it, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go against it. So like it's set up very neatly in terms of TV Land, but there's something about it that feels very Chicago. You know, what the fuck are you know the Kennedy chill the fuck out, Citer listen, Naperville, No fucking Cicero's in will met Now you gotta get on the That's right,

that's right, that's so we're hurry to see that motherfucker. Well, I know Ben has uh, I mean been being there and for him this is daily life. For me, it's you know it's just an occasional visit. But all these scenes of the elevated train, the l the skyscrapers off in the distance, this sense of like a grimy place. Uh. I personally love the interplay of like the old immigrant Italian heritage and the new kind of black and Latino presence in the kitchen, as this like mashup of old

and new. That's so interesting. Khalil talking about griminess and you even saying, you know, slick, that it might be Philly. Like to me, in this show, Chicago equals grit, grime, toughness, Right, there's this idea that they want to convey and you're right, like working class and sort of this kind of you know, low end food that people love. You know, it's not high end food. I don't think there's a single shot with sunshine in the entire show, Like it's either a

night shot or it's overcast. Like there's such sort of you know, grimness you know throughout the whole thing. You know is that there is an idea of Chicago. But of course, like I'll just compare it to the South Side,

Like there are no neighborhood shots. There's like Khalil, you were talking about things like the l and the lake and buildings, and sometimes we're traveling and then we're inside interiors or we're in alleys, but we're never in like a place, a community where people live, and certainly not with sunshine and you know, neighbors and things like that. I love that. To me, that is a very specific and smart idea because when I watch shows that are

set in like northern Europe, I love those. I love the Ship to set in Finland and Scotland because they're like these heavy blue overtone you know, it's great, it's not sunny. This show plays on this idea of the kitchen itself as a melting pot, as a place where culture comes together, and I think that's really really beautiful.

We want to play a scene though, of like when culture comes together and then shit goes crazy, like like, because as much as we might romanticize the idea of a melting pot, these folks are not always getting along. There's you know, the Latino folks, there's black folks, there's you know, the white guys who are our Italian heritage, and all of their ethnic identities are really played up

to some degree in this show. So we're going to play a clip of Richie, the Italian cousin who was the best friend of the guy who died, who is just kind of like your asshole's asshole, but he's something fundamentally endearing about this guy. And then Sydney, who is this young black woman who is super well educated. She went to Culinary Institute of the Arts, and she comes into this kitchen and she's like, what is happening here?

Except she grew up eating that food and she thinks it's an amazing place and she wants to help to change it. So here's a scene from Richie and Sydney trying to figure each other out. You know, the restaurant could be good, like I know, you know that, Like it doesn't have to be a place where the food is shitty and where everybody acts shitty and feels shitty.

Like it could be a good legit spot. Okay, you know what, Sydney're getting a little aggressive, and I think maybe you should just pause and take a breath before you start driving. Man or woman. I'm not discriminating. It's dangerous to get behind the wheel when you're hysterical. It's so interesting, I mean, I love that you picked that clip Khalil of Richie and Sydney and like a sort of like a crux of attensions. You know, older, younger, white, Black.

He didn't even finish a technical school. She's you know, super well educated. Yeah, and you know those divisions in this setting which brings them together. That certainly doesn't have to be Chicago, you know, any city that has a diversity. How can we bring people who are different together? What's a place that can bring them together? And once they're together, shit, Like, there's all sorts of drama that's going to unfold and slick.

Maybe you can talk about this. This isn't a lot of ways a wider show than The South Side, of course, but there's this way that the Kitchen is written almost like a stage play, Like you could write a play that's set in the kitchen, and because it's a workplace, it brings all these different people together. How did you see that in terms of like racial dynamics and letting

them play out in this setting? In many ways, when I watched this, I was like, well, this is a little bit of a documentary because kitchens can be extraordinarily not just the kids and restaurants can be so segregated. You might see dishwashers that might be Latine or Latin X or Hispanic or whatever. You might see some cooks on the line that are mostly male and uh, you know a variety of ethnic and racisms such there aren't

very many women or films in the kitchen. Usually the chef de cuisine is you know, some really fucked up angry white dude. Uh. You know, you might come into the whole stand and see someone of color. You might see like, you know, I've also seen the kitchens where it's like you got you know, black folks in the back chopping things, but not on the floor. So like it's a it's a very hierarchical, very hierarchical. It's high. Yes,

everything is at play, the hierarchy, the patriarchy. Yeah. So in this show, I love that they're to me, they're just a band of misfits. That's really it is, like he returns to Misfit Island and he's trying to get them ready for the Macy's Parade and they just not you know, the Macy's Parade, right, right, But I love that he comes back to try to implement this French brigade, which is like a terrible idea. It's also like I

get the discipline of it, but it's problematic. And so you have this, uh, this young black woman who has gone to the CIA, so you know that she knows how to sharpen her knives and chop it up and make a stew And that's the Culinary Institute of America. It's not the Central Intelligence. No, it's not. So you have that, but then you also have the like she's basically coming in, she's saying like, we can do something

better and coming in with a better business model. I completely understand that, coming from a mother who managed and operated family owned businesses, so I understood how I got everything in this show. So it feels really really real to me. We have a question for you, So, um, if we can get you hired to write for season

two of The Bear, what would you do differently? I think the show does not take for granted that the audience is dumb and that you have to feed them pardoning you know, pardon the pun, but that you have to spoon feed them everything. And as a writer, that makes me happy. And so if you put me on season two as a writer, like the thing I would do differently is like become a writer and then put

myself in the cast. And that's what I wanted to try, right, I would do it like like in Rocky you know how how Nick his coach who's like this, you know, quintessential Irish guy turns out to be Jewish and like you know Rocky three or for something, that's what I

would do. It turns out that all these Italian guys are Jewish, and that's and then like it moves into like you know, Skokie and the synagogues and they start selling they start selling Italian beef on bagels, right, you know, like a little schnitzel, and like you know, I would like you love it? Yeah, so oh well, well, Slick, it has been amazing to have you on the show.

You know, your career is blooming at this time. You just close to play nineteen nineteen inspired by the poetry of Eviewing, and I know Ben got a chance to see the play, and so we're just super excited that you took some time out to join us when some of my best friends are today. We wish you all the best in your continued work time as a construct, and I'm glad I got to spend it with two

people whom I just adore. Thank you both, seriously. Yeah yeah, And you're talking about our aligned paths, me and you and sort of like imagining the city. I'm with you. Let's go, let's keep on doing it. Slick is raising arms and making these giant muscles, giant muscles. Let's go. Let's fucking go, man, Khalil. I feel like I'm not done talking about the Bear. I'm still thinking about it

in terms of Chicago. Well, that's what a great television does, right, keeps the conversation going, That's what a great podcast is. It's just a starter for conversation. But but you know, I'm thinking about as it's Chicago aspects, you know, watching it in this way, and I think it's different than Southside in a lot of ways. Okay, break it down to me. It feels like it's made by outsiders. And there are all these sort of like literal billboards and

I'm using literal correctly here. There'll be these billboards here that are like giant Chicago nests, things like lord, this like terrible drink that people drink here, Like signposts like remember this is Chicago, this is Chicago. This is Chicago. Here's the l here's the lake. It's all exteriors, like it gets a lot the Chicago things wrong, you know, and this is like the nippicky Chicago stuff. But also

like I'm okay with it. And I think I'm okay with it because because the intimacy of that, those kitchen scenes that we talked about, which in a way could be anywhere, but like the dynamics that happened there. Yeah, you know, I probably don't feel the same way you do about it. It's more outsider perspective and the way that they use all these symbols of Chicago. And I'll tell you why bring it? Why? Because yeah, because when we worked at Hyde Park Computers, a place where we

met when we were fourteen. Yeah, fourteen years old. You were my boss. Boom. That's right. We were in a place although it wasn't a kitchen, it was kind of like, what is happening on this television show? You are writing our next paycheck right here? Hyde Park Computer is the TV show, the sitcom. You had Ed the Irish Catholic John, the Jewish guy from New Jersey. You had Jeff, the Polish descended guy from the North Side, Abraham, the Mexican

American descended along with Jerry Man. Holy cow, you had black guy Aaron, you had Jeff who was Chinese American and who was from the University of Chicago. It was this crazy stew of people. All we wanted to make was the perfect computer store. We just wanted to make the best computers are Pole. You're right, but think about it,

we had our own French brigade of making computers back then. Yeah, and so in a way, the show actually makes me feel more like a Chicago because, unlike what most people think of this, you know, crazy segregated city, which it is true, there are these pockets of amazingness where people from all walks of life do live life together. They work together, they play together, they love together. And that's

what I love about both Southside and The Bear. Yeah you said it, and Slick said this so beautifully when she said you need to forge relationships with communities that these TV shows and that you can make the universal in the specific two things that are going to stay with me. Oh, I love it, oh Man. Yes. And you know, for the second season of The Bear, when it's said in a Jewish delicatessen becomes Manny's Delhi. I think we're gonna even develop these themes more, you know,

like when they have the matzo ball fight. I mean, this is gonna be amazing, all right. I'll want to look forward to that, all right, man, Love you, Love you. Some of My Best Friends Are is a production of Pushkin Industries. The show is written and hosted by me Khalil Dubron Muhammad and my best friend Ben Austin. It's produced by John Assanti and Lucy Sullivan. Our editor is Jasmine Morris, our engineer is Amanda ka Wang, and our

executive producer is Mia LaBelle. At Pushkin thanks to Leita Mulad, Julia Barton, Heather Faine, Carly Migliori, John Schnars, Greta Khne, and Jacob Weissberg. Our theme song, Little Lily, is by fellow chicagoan the brilliant Avery R. Young, from his album Tubman. You definitely want to check out his music at his website Avery R. Young dot com. You can find Pushkin on all social platforms at Pushkin Pods, and you can

sign up for our newsletter at pushkin dot fm. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you like to listen. And if you like our show, please give us a five star rating and a review and listen even if you don't like to give it a five star rating and a review, and please tell all of your best friends about it. Thank you,