Hi. This is Malayan Vervier and this is Kim Azarelli. We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose. And you're listening to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio. Welcome to the special edition of Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose. During these difficult times, we're bringing you conversations with leaders who are using their power for purpose.
We're talking to experts who can help us gain a perspective on the impact of the coronavirus as well share tips, tactics, resources, and some inspiration. Today I'm joined by Dr Katherine hersch Passek at the Department of Psychology at Temple University and a senior fellow in the Brookings Institute. Her research examines the development of early language literacy and the role of play in learning. Thanks so much for joining me. It
is a pleasure to be here. Well, you are a very bright person on a day that is very difficult, and we appreciate that you. Well, I think we have to put a little bit of sunshine here because it could be a long time, you know, So I think we're in hunker down kind of thing. Well, uh, absolutely, I think everybody is trying to do whatever they can to adjust to this new normal. And you know, one of the things that we want to talk to you
about today is how we deal with the children. Um. You know, parenting, we know is tough on an easy day, let alone in the middle of a crisis. So how should parents talk to their kids about coronavirus? Well, great, great question, and obviously that depends it on the edge of the child, um, But mostly I think it's it's to be straightforward without creating panic. Now those don't sound
like they go together, so give me a moment to explain. Um. The first is that even our youngest children, even our three year olds and four year old, they know that something's up. Why your mom and at home all the time? Why can I not go to the park. Why is the park closed? Why are the museums closed? Why do I not have swim lessons on Thursday? So they not might not know it's Thursday, but they're pretty confused as
to what's happening. And I think what we want to do is rather calmly and you know, as truthly as you can be with a little person to say one of a lot of things have changed right now and we're just trying out a new schedule, you know. But the important thing is you, my dear, are safe and sound, and we are going to have a good time, okay. And that's reassuring two kids that you'll be there and you're going to take care of me. I feel like that's a good good thing to say to adults too.
We're gonna happen. Actually, it really is. I Mean what we're seeing everywhere is how arise in anxiety that is almost untold and unchecked. And I will admit to you that I kind of feel the same way. Yeah, of course, you know. I mean it's got us all quite anxious. So I think, um learning how to deal with our own anxiety. So we are constantly tuned into the news, and so that our children aren't constantly tuned into the news. It's just better off if they don't see it. Let's
make sure they don't see the news. Obviously, if they're sixteen, they've already known what's going on. They're probably on Twitter and they're probably seeing the reports and they know what's happening. And I think there we want to be very clear with them about what makes a difference. You know, this is something where we have the scientific beat it. Right. There are places like Germany and South Korea that are doing a really good job and they have come out
with tests and we're getting it too. Yeah, and so you will be protected here and right now. That's what we're doing. We're creating our own safety zone. Yeah. That that that's great advice. And I think I can really see that also in the children that are that we've seen that just to have that sense of calmness from the parents. I mean, as you say, they can sense anxiety so easily. So I think that that what you're
saying makes so much sense. And then we can talk to ourselves and use the same uh, use the same logic logic on ourselves. So that gets to one other point I just wanted to mention, which is we're all used to more order than we have right now. Um if I gotta remember a time when there was ever less order so we have right now. So I think thinking about with your child, so your child doesn't feel like they have new agency, think about what would you
like to do tomorrow? Yeah, you know, should we do something to create a band and then next we'll go on a walk outdoors. UM. Yesterday I met six ft apart, but I met my granddaughter UM and her mommy. And even though I stayed six ft apart, we both put on our boots because it was pouring in Philadelphia, and we went out to find puddles, and my four and
a half year old and I went puddle jumping. So now you know, and we made a plan earlier in the day, we're going to meet it through a colractical pedal jumping and you know what yet, Blast, And I just wanted to mention today as you do this schedule, UM, grandparents are really helpful human beings. So let me just give you an example of that. Not because I'm a grandparent, but because honestly, we have a great group of people.
So let's talk it through. Most people have to still do zoom meetings, and I know about you guys, but having a zoom meeting business meeting that's important going on on my computer with little kids around, it feels like task impossible, and so I think it's a great idea. When my kids say, Mom, I need you to come in and there are free tours of twenty five hundreds of the most famous museums in the world are all
online right now. That's incredible. I can go to the Berliner Orchestra and listen to the Berlin Symphony Orchestra with my kids and point out the instruments. Is that great. I can take geographic tours by going on Google Maps and finding out I wonder what French cafes look like, learn a new language. Notice all the things I'm doing as a grandparent that I can do virtually with my kids. And there's also Cosmo Kids that we can do together.
How important do you think outdoor play is in this moment? Is that? Is that because there are a lot of kids who can't get access to outdoor play right now? You know, it's very important if indeed it's safe to go outdoors. And what I mean by that is some people live in very dense environments where you'll just make the streets super crowded in a way that makes it rather hard to keep the six foot distance on New
York facing that right now. Lot of people live in apartments and what are You're supposed to be two sidewalk patches away from anybody else? You know what I mean? It's difficult and for kids, I think even even more difficult. So we can create games around that. And going out and getting some freshure really helps. Uh. If you have a rooftop, go up and take a peek, you know,
or go at times that are less congested than other times. Um. If you happen to live in an area where you have a backyard, I think it's a great time to visit the backyard. Is there any walking trails? Find a walking trail in New York go along the river. Well, you've us great ideas for some indoor fun too, with the different museums and orchestras and and games. Um. What about kids who won't have a play date. How do you feel about social interaction with other children if they
don't have access to that? Well, you know, we do have access, and that's how we have to change our and came to be more positive. Um. I don't see any reason why kids can't see their friends on FaceTime, and I think it's a really good idea for them to do that. And you know, you can even get together multiple friends. You could do. You know, if you're in middle school and you want to do a yoga class together with your friends, do it right? You want to play a game together, Go do it. You could
play pictionary. That also sounds like fun. I think I want to hate with you. Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean you can place your rade. Come on over. I'm suggesting actually right now, that you create a Zoom where everyone can play game, where you can leave games. I think that would be really fun. Oh my god, that would be a great idea. We should do it. I'll tell you what. Tell your listeners to look at Cathie in Row one because we are tweeting out the good
advice that we get. And since we're in this for the long run, I will promise you that maybe we will put up a Zoom site and actually do activities that you can all join in on for like twenty minutes and at least you'll get it live. That would be fantastic. Give us the website. Yeah it's um, it's Kathie and row one is our Twitter. Okay, great, k A H Y and r O one. We'll be back after this break. So, UM, let's talk about school for a minute, because I know parents are very concerned about
keeping their kids school work on track. Right, you have some tips for that? Um, there are a lot of activities that are being put forth. Sometimes the schools themselves have remote learning that's going on. When the school doesn't have remote learning, there's a lot of activities that can help you. Just allow your kids to be learning while they're having a black and let me tell you that that's not so hard to do. I'm going to just give you a couple of examples. UM So, let's do
math and science. But would you believe that building block structures is actually really important for pretty schoolers who are going to learn later math. It's called spatial learning, spacial relational learning. Um I do a couple of towers. Here's
a good way to occupy kid time. And if you have blocks in the house, arrange them in like six different ways, going from pretty easy one block on top of another to a little bit harder the one block on top of another is rotated, to something that goes all the way to maybe using seven or ten blocks, and challenge your child to see if your child can actually recreate what you just did. Well, believe it or not. When they're doing matt they're turning and rotating and use
and have a discussion with them later. Oh did you put the red on top of the green, the blue, next to the to the orange. You're using spatial terms like next to one, top of through around in which are spatial terms which help young children learn various skills that are going to be important in math. Look to do another easy way. You can draw a group of
shapes and just put them on the floor. Just cut them out and put them on the floor and see if the kids can do a jumping game to get to all the triubles, to get all the circles, to get all their ectangles. Yeah. I feel like that would be great for adults too. So these are fun. These are so fun. I have to tell you as you get older. One of my absolute favorites if you have like a family of four around, is uh create a
human scramble, which is a game like scrabble. Okay, now each of you has like especially get more people in book. You're not allowed you pick up letters and then you'll have to move in many different directions to see how many words it can create. Amazing, isn't it fun? Yes? And that's a winter game, right. We can act out the stories they read. Gosh knows, they read these stories so many times over and over and over and then there's some beautiful experiments on the web that are wonderful
science experiments. We did one not long ago where um, we just put some colored water um in a glass and then we put a piece of celery in and we wanted to see how long would it taken till the color went all the way up the salary. And then we came onto the web to try to look at all the scientific explanations for it. You know. Another easy one is to take water and put it in bottles, but put it at different heights and then blow the top and see if you can get a musical instrument
out of it. I love it. I mean, my point is only that while they sound hard, they're really pretty easy, and you can create a day with some of these activities. And then don't forget it's important for you to have downtime too, because homeschooling is really hard, especially when you're carrying another full time job more than one kid. And what do you suggest in terms of I mean that whole dynamic is really really difficult, especially for single parents.
So I think a lot of people are, of course using screen time as a way they have no choice being practical. How much screen time do you think is okay right now for school age children? Tat a beautiful yesterday there was was a piece by a former student of mine um in The Conversation, which is a wonderful publication that has some really really good advice. And my former student is a mother of a young child, and she thought, oh my god, the advice experts are giving.
It's really good and really interesting, but can sometimes be crazy if you're a parent on the grountain situa here and so she sent at the following chart and I just want to share it with your with your listeners, you know. So people say that to and under should have absolutely no digital media except FaceTime, But what are parents really doing forty two minutes? The experts say that two to five year old should have no more than
one hour daily. What are people doing two hours and thirty nine minutes the experts set it six to eight year old, Well, they don't really have a specific limit as long as the digital media doesn't interfere with their physical activity and sleep, and they're doing roughly three hours. We see a pattern here. So I say this only because you don't want to get to what's going on
with the thirteen year olds. And beyond, because they're using an average of seven to ten hours a day and that's not okay, Um, that's more than a full time job, right, and that's not healthy to be not social and it also means you're kind of zoom and out in front of the computer. Would I be a little easier on my times with Terence today, I sure would, and as
a mother of three I probably always was. But at the same time, remember that human interacts and human to human interaction is what's important, and our kids need to know we're there for them right now. So what are practical things parents can do to to interrupt that time? Because I know that's not easy and obviously times very addictive. So what can they do to create not create discord in the house in this moment, but at the same time,
you know, create a healthy boundary for their children. Yeah, well, I think that's a discussion you have to have with your children. I mean, they're even seeing, you know, brain differences for kids who are bonchred on screen time. Obviously in a short period of time that there's the coronavirus. Am I going to worry? No? But but I think what our children don't realize is that there are other alternatives, and that may be up to us. It's sort of
the day the computer broke. Like you do, if your iPhone broke and your computer broke, would you just sit there hopelessly? Of course you well maybe you would, but you wouldn't sit there hopelessly. You would come up with the kind of games like the shape Zone and the bottle blowing and put the color in the water, and the science experiments. And how fun would they be for our children to play, even a game like Simon says, you know, or those old clapping games or matching games
or I Spy with my yellow eye. You would not believe how many things are out there. And for those of us who were old enough to remember a childhood without computers and without smart screens, which by the way, is anyone over twelve years of age, okay, because remarkably the smartphone only came in in twenty seven, thirteen years of age. So you know, whould do this? We'll be back after this. My last question, which I usually ask people, is what gives you hope or optimism right now? But
I feel like this entire conversation was hopeful. Well, you know, my hope or optimism is really this. Human beings throughout history have been through tough periods, and there is no question that this is a tough period. It's a tough period for us, and it's a tough period for our kids. And I would argue that the demands were even greater now than ever before in history, because we have moved work home, and we have moved school home, and they are clashing right now in our living room, and that
is tough stuff. And the smaller the space, the more the intrusion is. But through those tough times, if we can find a way to respect one another and one another's needs, and that means our children respecting the time we need to. Like, if there's a time to put frozen on for the tenth time, it's probably when you have that important business meeting, right and at the same time, you don't want to hang on the computer beyond that
business meeting. Put a stop time, cook with your kids and figure out how to bring back very special family time. And the amazing thing you're going to find is as we play some of these games where our kid is learning too, and we're learning. Anything we're learning is the art, sometimes lost art of social interaction and here's my prediction
for beyond Corona Time, should we ever find it. I believe there's going to be a day when we're going to sit next to our child in a park bench and instead of both looking in our southphone, we're gonna look at each other side. Well, that is a very hopeful message for our listeners and for for all of us.
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