Madeleine Albright on Women, Foreign Policy and the Role of Technology

where women are critical to driving both economic and social progress. Now, let's get started with the conversation between Milan and Madeline Albright, the first woman to be the U S Secretary of State. We'll hear how Secretary Albright first got the job, what it's like to be the only woman in a room with male leaders, and how tech is changing women's lives, plus her advice for any woman who wants to make her voice heard, and stick around after the conversation for

our top takeaways. We'll be back after this break. Yeah mm hmmm. Secretary, all right, we are absolutely thrilled to have you with us today. We all know that you're an extraordinary leader in the area of global affairs and foreign policy, but I know personally you're an extraordinary advocate for women's leadership, women's political participation. You chair the National Endowment for Democracy. You really put your own power and

your own experience to promote women's leadership. Maybe you could tell us how you do that and why you do that, well, ambassador or uh, we do do that to each other. Um. I'm delighted to be here and to have the opportunity to talk about all this. And I have to say that it is clear to me that when women are out there and we're all working hard, we do it together, not against each other. And I think that is a very important part. I am so grateful for all the

things that happened. And I know I'm not supposed to say I was lucky, but basically I did manage to have my credentials together at a time that people were looking for the one woman. Uh, and so I was able to kind of parlay one thing to another. But I have to say that one of the best things, and you and I will agree on this, is that we had an opportunity to work for and with the Clintons, who believed in the fact that women should be able to pursue careers and have a chance to show what

we can do together. So I'm very grateful to them. And what what is it that you do at n d I to promote women's political participation. Well, let me explain a little bit, UM. Actually, what is interesting. We're about to celebrate our thirty fifth anniversary the nationally. What happened was President Reagan was in London speaking at Parliament and he was saying that democracies were not real good

about explaining themselves visa e. Communism. So he came back to the United States and he started the Endowment for Democracy, which has four institutes, Democrats and Republicans, Business and Labor. UH. And I was the original vice chair, democratically put into place by Fiat. UH. But what happened is we were trying to really figure out what we needed to do.

And one of the things that we have concentrated on more than anything else is how to support women women candidates UM in all over the world UH and UM. And we are working on that now in a number of countries, explaining how the nuts and bolts of democracy work and how societies are better off when women are

politically empowered. I have to say that, UM. When I became secretary, I was the first one to put women's issues central to American foreign policy, and not just because I'm a feminist, but I will do believe that women that societies are better off when women are economically and politically empowered. And then Secretary Clinton took it to a whole with you, a whole other level, but that was

the part of it. Something that we're doing now with the United Nations UM is to explain that even when we were able to support women, there still is a lot of harassment and very dangerous and so with the U n UM we have started something called not the Cost is to really show that we need to support women as they are being harassed for running for office. And so it's not just a matter of getting people to run, but to be supportive. And it does make a huge difference. In n D I is very much

the center of that, you know it. It really is difficult for women in politics. And I remember a woman UH in Africa saying to me, you know, she she wanted to run for the parliament. She said, they say to you, well, if you have a family, why aren't you with the family. And if you don't have a family, there's something wrong with you. So she said, either way

you can't win. Uh. But when you were Ambassador to the United Nations for the United States, and I know that when you arrived at the u N there weren't too many female ambassadors, but being that you were representing the United States, you were in a very strong position of leadership. How did you support the few other UH women ambassadors? Let me just say it was one of them.

There were a hundred and eighties three countries with the u N when I was there, UM, and it was one of the first times I didn't have to cook lunch myself. So I asked my assistant to invite the other women to the residents so that we could I could meet them and I out there and there are six other women out of a hundred and three There was Canada, Philippines, Kazakhstan, Trinidad, Tobago, Jamaica, Liechtenstein and me.

So what happened was, being the American I created a caucus and we called ourselves the G seven UH and UM. We agreed that we would always stay in touch and take take each other's telephone calls. So what happened all of a sudden one of the male ambassadors at the u N said, why would you be talking to Liechtenstein and I said, well, have yourself replaced by a woman, and I'll be very happy to take your call whenever

you want. But the thing that we did do we did become very good friends and supported each other in so many ways. But the interesting part is what we were able to do because at that stage we were dealing with the issues in Bosnia where women were being terrorized and raped and made into refugees, and so we lobbied to get women judges on the War Crimes Tribunal and we did manage to get two women judges. Later, we did a lot of things to do with HIV and AIDS and really did try to use our power

as the G seven. UM. Now there are many more women UH and UM. Also women ambassadors in Washington, but never enough, and women foreign ministers UM. But I think that we really need to keep pursuing that. By the way, I'm going to tell one other story about the u N. I think many people have heard me on this subject,

and I think we've all had this experience. You're in a meeting, you're the only woman in the room, and you decide that you're going to say something, and then you think, well, everybody will think it's stupid, so I won't say it, and then some man says it and everybody thinks it's brilliant, and you're really mad at yourself. And so that happened to me earlier my government career, before the Clinton administration. UM. And then I taught at Georgetown, and I try to explain to my students, UM that

they everybody had to learn to interrupt. Nobody was going to raise their hands in class. My classes are a bit of a zoo, but I really have said they have to do that. But the story is the following. I get to the United Nations. I am the only woman on the Security Council, and most of the meetings don't take place in that fancy room, but in a in a room in the back, and I sit down and people start talking about a subject and I thought, well, I don't know. I won't talk today until I figure

out if they like me or not. And then I saw the sign in front of me and said United States. And I thought, if I don't speak today, the voice of the United States will not be heard, and you've

got to speak. I don't know, So speaking of that, UM, I wonder when you assumed the position as the first female head of the eighth Department are foreign minister around the world, whether you felt it was any kind of super responsibility in a way beyond the responsibility of any Secretary of State, but being the first woman was that extra pressure? Was it? Well? First of all, I didn't

believe I'd ever be Secretary of State. What happened was Warren Christopher, who had been Secretary of State, made clear he was going to not be there for a second term. And so the period of the great mentioning started happening. Um, and my name was out there, and somebody said, well, a woman couldn't be Secretary of State because Arab countries

would not deal with it with an American woman. And so what happened was the Arab ambassadors at the u N got together and they put out a statement saying, we've had no problems dealing with Ambassador Albright. We wouldn't have any problems with Secretary Albright. Then what happened, Um, somebody at the White House, and I never I never want to know who said, yeah, mad Lane's on the list, but she's said can tear um. And so it was the quote that it was the quote in the post.

So I never thought I'd get to be Secretary of State, and I was thrilled to be. And I know as a fact that the only reason I was was because of Hillary. And the reason I know that is because President Clinton said so publicly when we were abroad one time we had this stick. We've often traveled together and I would introduce her and she would introduce him, and he actually said that during this period of the great mentioning, Hillary would come to him and say, why wouldn't you

name Madeline. She's closest to your views and expresses them better than anybody else. So and besides, it would make your mother happy. So that is how it happened. But partially, and I'm not just saying this because I'm sitting with you and Hillary is coming on, is that the partnership that we all had and the support that we have for each other, I think made a very, very big difference. The thing that happened one of my first trips AFTERTUALLY

was to the Gulf Cooperation from Council meeting. It was in Kuwait, and I'm sitting there with the other foreign ministers and they end up by saying, um, you know this was a great meeting. I said, well, perhaps you've noticed I'm not dressed exactly as my predecessors have been. And thank you very much. You've been very kind to me. And next time we'll talk about women's rights. And we did.

And I did feel that I was representing a great country and that I had a huge opportunity to show that we were able to do what we had to do. I did work hard, and I did believe that I had to deliver UH. And I think there were ad manages to it, but there was always the issue of how you go to a country and start a conversation and say what you have to, which mostly that what you have to has to do with human rights and

women's rights. So I'd be somewhere and I'd be nice and charming as best I could, and all of a sudden, I'd say, I've come a long way, so I must be frank. And so I really told it like it is. But there was a responsibility about being the first woman, There's no question. So you then succeeded UH to lead the way for two other women to be named Secretary of State in fairly short order, given a twenty years span.

UM and it was certainly a trailblazing, UM recognition that of the role that you started, and then others followed. And I understand, and maybe you could tell us if this is true, that your granddaughter was hearing you one night, Opine about this great role that you had played. So was she impressed? Um? What happened was my granddaughter, about eight years ago, when she was seven, said to her mother, so, what's the big deal about Grandma Mattie being Secretary State?

Only girls are secretary state, and so in her lifetime there had been cond and Hillary. Yeah, And since then, actually I have said, there are some little boys out there who have been impressed by the fact that a man can be secretary of state. Sort to we would really achieved something when we don't have to comment on the first anymore, when it can become normal. We're talking

here a lot today about technology and innovation. UM. Have you experienced, UM, the importance of technology in terms of advancing the kinds of things that you've been working on, particularly for women, No question, has made a huge difference. And I have been very interested in my role first with the National Democratic Institute about how democratizing technology really can be or should be UM in terms of allowing information to people and really connecting people in many ways.

I do think, and I talk about this all the time, is UH that technology has made it possible. I sometimes talk about the woman Kenyon Farmer who no longer has to walk miles to pay her bills. She can do it with her phone, which has changed the possibilities of her life, not only with her family, but the possibilities of having UH employment of a variety of different kinds.

And I think it really has made a difference UM and also UM in terms of women being able to create businesses UM, whether it's in India or the Middle East. And a lot of that does have to do with technology. There are upsides and downsides to technology. And one of the things I've talked about is and and this speaks to the larger things that are going on in the world. There are two mega trends out there. One is globalization UH and the other is technology. They both have positive

and downsides to them. So on globalization, I think most of us are a beneficiary areas of it, but it's faceless, and so people do want to know what their identities are. We all want to know ethnic, religious, linguistic and that's patriotic. But if my identity hates your identity, it's very dangerous. And nationalism and hypernationalism is very, very dangerous. The other is technology, which is positive for all the reasons that we've already spoken about, but it also has a downside.

It has disaggregated voices. Um, and I sometimes talk about Egypt on this is that people were summoned to Teri or square by social media. The issue is that they were all in their kind of echo chambers and only

listened to what they already knew. And God forbid I should say this, but I think the elections in Egypt were held too soon, um and so um, the Muslim Brotherhood was organized, the people in Chario Square were not, and the Muslim Brotherhood wins, and there were results from that, and so I think we need to understand the positives

and negatives of technology. And um. By the way, I use this line fairly frequently, and I always say it's completely plagiarized from Silicon Valley, but it explains so well what is going on. People are talking to their governments on twenty first century technology. The government's listened to them on twentieth century technology and provide nineteenth century responses. So there's no faith in institutions. UM, so where there's a lot And then I've just been at some seminars on

artificial intelligence. I do think that we have not fully understood the impact of technology on all our economies, and we need to grasp what artificial intelligence is going to do, um even more, and how we deal with that of

society's well. And I know one of the things troubling about AI is who's doing the inputting and where is the presence of women in this in this field, because what's going to come out is going to be essentially what was put in uh, and you won't have the kind of predominant or even fair representation like is in

this room. I do think that some of us are not by the way, my classmates are here, and I went to Wellesley at some time between the invention of the iPad and the discovery of fire, and uh, it should be true of you guys to um. But I do think that those of us and by the way, um, you know, so we know we talked talking awful lot about millennials. I'm a perennial, and so what we have to do is figure out how to use the technology

for the improvement of all of us. But it truly has become even a big foreign policy issue in terms of it being used for radicalization by violent extremists. Uh, what's happened in terms not just in the United States but around Europe and in terms of trying to change elections, um in a way that is truly interfering. So there's a lot that was not on the foreign policy issue that is now very much so. And I think people

need to understand very well. You and I are both at Georgetown, and I think we have talked about what the curriculum for people that are in the larger field of international affairs has to be. And uh, you know, it isn't just taking political science and history. What we have to do is understand health issues, UM issues to do with any kind of scientific thing. The world is

not flat, um. And I think there are any aspects of that curriculum that we have to work on so that people really are prepared to have the discussions about AI and global warming and all the various aspects that are going on and the health issues. It's a it's a growth industry and a field and it needs women. I really believe that in terms of moving forward to get something that we want in the twenty first century instead of the mess that's going on now. That, by

the way, is a diplomatic term of art. Un you know, um, you never stop. You're a force of nature and uh, it's hard to keep track of you, of any at any given time. Uh. And we also knew you're an author. And everybody has gotten your book today called fashion okay, a fascism of warning. And I wonder if you could tell us why you wrote it, and maybe people will get into the book that much faster when they live here. Well,

first of all, it has a very bland title. Um. But and some people think it's alarmist, and it's supposed to be. Uh. And the reason I wrote it, I actually was going to write it no matter who had gotten elected, because I felt very much that there were divisions in our society created some by technology and not a full understand ending of it. And I really speeded up the writing of it, um more after the election. And it is supposed to be I decided it had

to be historical. A lot of it is personal to me. I was born in Czechoslovakia in ninety seven, and the Nazis came in in nineteen thirty nine. Um, and a lot of people UH died as a result of fascism. Um. As it turns out, I learned thirty eight members of my family did, and so I think that so it was very personal, but also I thought it needed to

be put into historic context. So I begin with Mussolini, and then Hitler, and then I Franco, and then I talked about various places now in the world where I'm very worried by the dictatorial authoritarian leaders. Um and Um. The best quote in the book actually comes from Mussolini, and he said, if you pluck a chicken, one feather at a time, nobody notices. So there's a lot of feather plucking going on now. And you can't say those

words too quickly together. UM. You know. But I do think there is a warning about the kinds of things that are going on. And I have the part that I learned in writing the book is Mussolini, Hitler, and Franco came to power constitutionally. Mussolini there were complications with party politics in the end of World War One, and King Emmanuel turned power over to him. Hitler there were

various issues going on in Germany. UM, there's some as the result of the Versailles Treaty, some of um financial and the Weimar Republic wasn't strong, so von Hindenburg turned power over to Hitler. Then also in Spain there was a weak government that folded and the king there turned

it over to Franco. The countries that I write about now, starting with Orbon and Hungary and what's going on in Poland, and in the Philippines with Duterte, and Turkey with Air Douan and Chabeza Maduro in Venezuela, they were all elected and I think it's only and I do say the communism is also fascism. There they had revolutions, but all the other ones were people that were elected. And I think we need to understand what the conditions are that

create this. You know, we're all familiar with that of saying see something, say something. I have added something to that, which is do something. We cannot normalize what is going on UM. And my to do list really does include saying we it is very important for there to be freedom of the press. The press is not the enemy of the people. To have a judicial branch that is judicious. Uh. And UM to not think that leaders can be above

the law. UH. And then UM, I do think people need to run for office or support those that do. And then something that I think is actually hard to do, which is to talk with the people that we disagree with. UM. I don't like the word tolerance because it's tolerant put up with. I think we need to respect those views. UM. I don't want to be in an echo chamber. I

want to learn a lot. By the way, you should all be glad that you live here and not in Washington, because in Washington I listened to right wing radio as I drive, UM, and do a little yelling and a few hand gestures, and so it's possible that I'm dangerous. It may be the secret of lawn, you know. But then I don't think there's ever been a book or a speech that doesn't quote Robert Frost. So my quote is, Uh,

the older I get, the younger are my teachers. And I think we need to support those young people that marched because of part Green and all that. UM. That's it. Elacaly Well, Madams Secretary, We're glad you're a perennial and may you continue to lead and thank thank you. That's it, Elacaly. Stay tuned for our takeaways after this break. That was an incredible conversation with Madeline Albright. It's really worth checking

out our book Fascism A Warning. A couple of important takeaways. First, sometimes to make your voice heard, you have to learn to interrupt. Secretary Albright teaches at Georgetown and she insists that our students interrupt in class. Second, it's not just enough to speak up. Everyone knows the saying see something, say something, Secretary Albright ads, do something. Finally, we have

to talk with the people we disagree with. As Secretary Albright suggests, it's important that we try to respect other people's views. You're listening to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you by the Seneca Women podcast Network and i Heart Radio with support from founding partner P and G. Listen to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and please support this

podcast by telling your friends, subscribing, and rating us. For more information on Seneca Women, follow us on social media, Visit our website Seneca Women dot com. And check out the Seneca Women app free in the app Store. Have a great day wh