Andrea Jung on the Power of Women’s Networks

the first woman's CEO of Avon Products. She was also the first woman to be appointed to the board of directors of Apple, and sits on the boards of Uni, Lever and Wayfair. I first met Andrew when she was the CEO of Avon and I worked as a young lawyer there. I spoke with Andrea at Seneca Women's Forum at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and we talked about the power of women's networks, the opportunity we have right now to alleviate poverty, and the good news about women's

rise to leadership. Enjoy our conversation and stick around after the discussion for our top takeaways. In the past few years, Andrew Young decided to shift gears and really do something that I think is changing the world, which has become the CEO of GRIM America. So Andrew, welcome, Thank you. Great to be here. Hi, everybody want to be here. So let me bring us back to our Avon days.

And you should just know that the first time I ever saw Andrea, I called the other people in my office and I was like, I've just seen Andrew Young. She just walked by my door in the office. So this is like a major setting. So for me to be on the stage with her as a real privilege. So, Andrea, as a CEO of AVON, you really lad one of the largest women's networks in the world. And I don't know if everyone in this dience understands the model, but maybe you could talk a little bit about the model.

We still love of Avon absolutely, hear Kim. You know it's a It's been an incredible opportunity for me in my life to be involved with two organizations to social networks, if you would, Avon and German and they actually are extremely similar in in some dimensions. But just going back

to Avon, Avon was started in six um. This was thirty four years before women could vote and it was started by a very prescient a man who was an encyclopedia salesman, and he would go door to door with encyclopedias, and one year someone gave him some vials of perfume and said, why don't you just see if the women want a gift with purchase of perfume when they buy the encyclopedias. And he found out two things when he

went knocking door to door. Um, they said, number one, we really don't want the books, can we just get the perfume? And number two, they said, and could we possibly sell it? And that began something way ahead of its time. Heretical, if you would. In those days, women weren't working out of their own homes. But when people think of Avon is skincare and lipstick. Uh, we used to think about it as selling the beginnings of economic opportunity for women again before they could even vote in

the United States of America. And that took on, if you would, a movement that became millions of Avon ladies strong around the world. Um. But the concept of a network of women, which can be smaller, it can be large, is really one of the most powerful things I've had

The opportunity to see. I'll never forget one time. It was in two thousand eleven that I was with five thousand Avon representatives in Istanbul, Turkey, and one of the women got up on the stage, one of the Avon representatives who told the story to five thousand of her peers um again. She was forbidden for religious reasons by her husband to work. She actually didn't obey him, and when he would go off, she started to sell Avon. They there wasn't very very bad earthquake in the village

where she lived. They lost their home, they lost all their belongings, but she kept at it. She became the number one AVON representative in the country. Through her income, they were able to rebuild their lives in their home. And she proudly stood on stage with five thousand other women and said, I am the only woman in my town whose husband comes home to cook dinner for me.

And there were five thousand women on their feet. And it was the power not just of a network, but a movement, and that that really was and is the power of women's networks and opportunities for women to be not only self sufficient, but to have the confidence and really breakthrough amazing. I mean, Avon is really something special. And then what's amazing to me really is I remember also when we first learned about Muhammad Units in the

Nobel Piece Price. I remember you saying, you realize that Avon is the oldest micro lender in the world, right, And that was sort of a really interesting concept to think that Avon and Gramine had this incredible parallel life and mission. And yet here we are now, I don't know how many years later, and now you're the CEO of Grimey in America. Tell us about that transition and

how you're finding running another incredible network of women. Well, first of all, Um, I have the opportunity to be inspired by Mom and Eunice, and you're gonna have that amazing privilege this afternoon. But it was back right after he and the Green Bank won the Nobel Peace Prize. Uh And at that time I was working at Avon.

But I remember thinking that while we weren't in micro finance, and he certainly has been the visionary for and the father of micro finance in not just Bangladesh but around the entire world, but in a sense we were lending, um, you know, our first orders. We they were on credit to women, they didn't have to put any collateral down, and that's how we started all of our low income AVON representatives. So there was a similarity, if you would,

in the model. So then in two thousand and thirteen I had the chance to sit with Professor Unis, and first of all, who can say no to him? But second of all, I was really really deeply passionate not only about women's economic empowerment but the issues that are facing us in the United States. Um, and there were just some daunting facts that still are actually dizzying and take my breath away. One is that you know, there are forty three million people living in poverty in the

United States, and women are disproportionately disadvantaged. Uh as you heard, one out of three women is living in poverty and really needing opportunity for access to capital. But that remains elusive here in the United States. If it was difficult to get a loan before two thousand and eight and the huge global crisis financial crisis, if you were a woman in a minority trying to get alone, it was difficult enough, and after two thousand and eight became almost impossible.

So to have a program that actually started in two thousand eight, when all logic would say, why would you start a lending program with no collateral in the United States America in two thousand eight, UH and from a test, if you would a pilot in Jackson Heights, just one subway stop away, you know, just a waters away from the you know, Wall Street turmoil, began an opportunity to believe that when this target needed lending the most, we

would be there. And that's always been the Groomen philosophy. And so from five hundred members, I guess that first year in Queens and I think we had given out about a million dollars of loan capital in that first year. UH. To this this year marks the beginning of our our tenth year, and in our tenth year, we will have given out one one billion dollars of loan capital to UH one billion dollars two over one hundred thousand women in their families. So you know, over four hundred thousand

American lives have been impacted in just ten years. And the power, obviously is social capital. Gramen is all about networks. We give women in groups of five loans. My loan is different than your loan. You may want a flower shop, and I may run a small restaurant, but we get together. Our group is very important. We get together in centers every single week where there are twenty five to thirty

other entrepreneurs. And the peer mentorship and the peer training, and UM, the culture of discipline and responsibility that is part of the program has been an alchemy and a magic. Our repayment rate is over. So we have lent. We have done four hundred thousand loans. One billion dollars has been paid back and over because of the loyalty, the gratitude and the discipline that's been taught city after city.

So today we're in twelve markets. We've had ordinary supporters who are helping us accelerate into Miami, into Houston, obviously because we think the best way for communities to get back on their feet. Obviously the Extraordinary Relief UH and funds going for immediate relief are important, but on a sustainable basis, there's no better way to help the community than helping, you know, small businesses get back up on

their feet. So Gramine America will be there. And UM, I've seen the power again of now a hundred thousand women and it's not just a network, it's a movement. It's no different. So, so you're talking about women entrepreneurs

and the power for them to drive the economy. I'm gonna take you back to big corporate for a minute, because, um, while we see that women are starting business at five times the national average, we see this incredible movement, as you say, of women entrepreneurs, we still see that there's a glass ceiling, or as I like to refer to it, a thick layer of men. That is kind of that is kind of um, still a present, still very present.

So you've you've been those uh in those rooms, and you've you've been at the top of corporate America and you're one of the first really to break through. So so tell us what what's going on in the c suite and what lessons do we have women in the C suite? How can we get more women in there? Well, first of all, you know, you've you've said that I've broken through on a lot of firsts, and I just have this philosophy that I hope all of you there's probably so many people in this room who have been

the first. You can be the first, but better not be the last. Right, there's there's no way that we can be the last, and that that takes a lot of work. Um, that takes a huge amount of responsibility, and it is a privilege obviously to be the first woman in a boardroom or at Avon, there had been eight CEOs prior to myself, you know, in a very very women oriented category and business. But all eight were men before myself. And this was not unusual to the

cosmetics industry. Um, people you say say, well that's cosmetics. How about financial services? And even in cosmetics and even at Avon it took to the ninth CEO. Uh, I think it's a different time. Um. You know, it was zero percent when I became the CEO because three people out of five hundred rounded down to zero. That was the map. Six percent today of Fortune five companies and women are are breaking through. But you know, can I

I'm an optimist. I think when you look at the level below the C suite or the CEO jobs, the number of women who are in positions that could rise easily tomorrow into CEO positions is so vastly different than the era I grew up in. When I was you know, breaking through, women had maybe the HR job, maybe the pr job. There weren't CFOs and heads of the operations running the p n l's. That's very very different today.

So I think that the women in the layer, ready right underneath in the C suite, ready to become CEOs, is vastly different. So that makes me an optimist. UM. I think that there is no question that. I mean, the data is there, but also the business case has to be there. And I'll just use an example. I'm on the board of Mercedes Diamilard Mercedes Benz and here is obviously a a very very male dominated industry, obviously for decades and decades, not just Diamelar but all all

car companies. Um. And yet when you look at who are making the purchasing decisions of passenger cars, of the purchasing decisions for passenger cars are made by women. The model the color um. And so when you think about that, then you know it shouldn't be an uneven representation, but it needs to be an even representation of men and

women in the sweet suite in the boardroom. You know, UM, because it makes sense, and that's true of every single industry in one as crazy um to think of, but who would have thought if you had said to me, well, a woman, well head General Motors when I became the CEO of a VON, I would have said, that's going to take a long time. But look at Mary Borrow. If you had said to me, well, two of the four you know top counting firms are going to be run by women, even when I was a CEO, I

would have said, that's probably not likely. And here we are. So I think we have to take a moment to pause on some of the progress. I've certainly seen it over my decades. Um, but I guess to the point of everything that you all believe in at Seneca fast forward, we've got a fast forward, this and shatter, I think it's it's that moment. Though I do believe we're in an inflection point. I think the next five to ten

years is going to look a lot different. It is incumbent not just on women leaders, but the men and women at every level to make sure that, um, there's equal pay, that there are an equal number of candidates. A man may get the job, in my mind, but it should be that in the candidate pool there were an equal number of women and men in the best person should get the assignment. So I think there's small and large things that have to happen, but I am an optimist in hope that the next five years look

vastly different than the last fifteen. Well, obviously, we're so lucky to have Andrea here tonight, and for everything that you've done. We want to thank you as always because what you're doing and what you've done in the past, but what you're doing with Grimin, it's really changing lives. Stay tuned for our takeaways after this break. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Andrea Young, CEO of Grimin America. If you're interested in learning more about Germina America, go

to gramin America dot org. My top takeaways. First, we have the ability to solve the income crisis in this country by empowering women. As of today, approximately thirty eight million people live in poverty, but Germina America shows us that small loans and a network of support can allow women entrepreneurs to lift their families and their communities. Second,

women are a great investment. In a little over ten years, grammin America has given out over one point four billion dollars in loans to a dred and twenty thousand women entrepreneurs, and of those loans have been paid back. Third. When it comes to women's leadership, there's a reason to be optimistic. While there's still a lot of work to be done to get more women into CEO positions, there's an incredible number of women in the c suite ready to take

that top job. You're listening to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support from founding partner of PNGNG. Listen to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and please support this

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