Success story: James & his return to running

: today's success story, James and his return to running. to the podcast helping you overcome your proximal hamstring tendinopathy. This podcast is designed to help you understand this condition, learn the most effective evidence-based treatments and of course, bust the widespread misconceptions. My name is Brody Sharp. I'm an online physiotherapist, recreational athlete, creator of the Run Smarter series and a chronic proximal hamstring tendinopathy battler. Whether you are an athlete or not, this podcast will educate and empower you in taking the right steps to overcome this horrible condition. So let's give you the right knowledge along with practical takeaways in today's lesson. Hey today I have a success story that's a little bit different. I have a client of mine, his name's James, and we talked through his journey and his journey through online physio. And it's a nice take because it's kind of delving into the end stage rehab and how effective it can be if implemented properly, how to break out of like stage one, stage two of rehab and into those more successful end stage. Steps and so it was nice I thought it would be really cool to include James was really well spoken and he's done his research as well into PHT rehab and so it was really insightful I'm really happy we did this and I know you guys will enjoy as well so let's take it away. James welcome to the podcast thanks for joining us today. Pleasure to be here Brody. Yeah absolutely for those who. don't know you, which won't be a lot. Um, how, how are you been as a runner in the past and sort of what type of runner would you say you have been in the past or several years? Yeah. So I, I'm 29 years old at the moment and I've been running probably for about a good eight years or so. And before I started running, I, I had quite a good base from team sports like you know, Australian football and, and soccer. And like many runners, I, I started doing short runs when I wasn't training as much. I started doing those runs by myself. And after those short runs, then it was half marathons and then it became marathons. Um, and I've, I've done about six marathons all up in that, in that period of time. So nothing too serious. I've only ever really been a weekend warrior and, uh, it's still my main outlet running for stress relief and to get a good hit of endorphins. Um, and before my PhD, uh, I'd never really had any running injuries except for very minor niggles here and there. Um, and as running became a habit for me over the years, I became less and less mindful about my running. So what I mean by that is when I ran, I almost kind of began to feel like I wasn't really running at all because I was so used to it. I was, I just got into this habit and it was a rhythm. And when I look back over the years, um, I was consistently doing the same distance, same speed, same time, um, pretty much two days on one day off for years. And I'd increase my running slightly sometimes if I was training for a marathon, you know, in the lead up to it. Um, but I didn't really properly train for marathons. I just sort of wing them. No, so no strength training over the years, which is a point to which we'll probably return. Um, and, uh, so that's sort of my history, I'd say in terms of, of running and we can, we can come to my experience last year in, in lockdown in 2020 and, um, the diagnosis of my PhD, I suppose. Yeah. When you said that you were, you were quite stagnant with your routine and doing the same thing over and over for a couple of years, like you said that running was a bit of a stress relief for you. So were you happy with that routine or did you just become complacent and not really wanting to strive for more? You know, I actually, I actually was content with just that amount of running because it gave me everything I needed. It was, it was before work and it was in the morning and I'd probably run for. say about a 10K or so and do it very slowly and I'd feel great after it. And I just became so addicted to it. I feel good at work. It really helped with stress relief and I noticed that I was in good shape. So I felt quite healthy. So it wasn't until my injury that I started to become unhappy about my running. Yeah. Okay. And so what kind of happened at the time of you developing this PhD? Was there any change in training loads or, um, any, any differences in your routine? Uh, it's funny. Yeah. A lot of people describe PhD as, as coming on from a sudden increase in speed or doing heels all of a sudden, and it just exceeding what your body is capable of at the time, but I feel as though mine was more of a slow burn and it's something that came on gradually and sort of. crept up on me and how it kind of happened was last year in lockdown in 2020 in Melbourne, it was quite a long lockdown and my routines at the time probably didn't help my underlying weakening of my attendance because I was very busy at the time. I have an office job but at the time, like most people in Melbourne, I was working from home. And so there were no boundaries between work and life. And my routine was to get up. Go for that 10K run in the morning, get out. Cause I think at the time we had, we had about a one hour or so period that we're allowed outside to exercise. You remember, cause you're also, I do remember. Yes. Um, and then come back, sit at my desk at home, work there and just sit there. Sometimes for 12 or 14 hours at a time. And because we were in lockdown, I wasn't really going outside at all, except for that brief period in the morning. And so I would repeat that. over and over again each day. And then that was okay at first, and then I didn't really feel too much pain, but it wasn't sort of towards the end of 2020 that I started to get this sharp shooting pain, which was, I think it started in my glute area, and then it started to radiate all the way down the back of my leg, right down to my feet. And I noticed it the worst when I was sitting. prior to that sharp shooting issue arising, was there any tendon kind of stiffness or any, was it uneasy or uncomfortable with sitting for long periods of time, any kind of indication that the proximal hamstring tendon was starting to get a bit grumpy? It's funny, when I look back on it, I think that little niggles here and there, and it might've been something that started very, very gradually increasing with time, but little niggles here and there, I used to just discard them because wherever I had a niggle, whether it be my calf was tight or say maybe, you know, my quads felt sore, whatever it was, it tended to heal itself. And I think that looking back, when I first experienced some, it might've been a slight pain starting to shoot down. I probably It just over the months as I started to roll on it, just got worse and worse to the point where sitting trying to do my job, it was distracting me. I noticed that my performance was decreasing and it was quite stressful. Yeah. And what would your, your rehab journey be prior to reaching out to me for online physio, did you try and sort out some physio locally or did you Yeah. Sick other additional help. Yeah. I think it was overall as a journey of confusion. Yeah. Um, because I'm not a physio. I had no idea what it actually was. And when I first started noticing the pain being something that wasn't going away, I knew I needed to work on it, confront it. And I did what a lot of people do. I started Googling what it might be. And I chatted with other recreational runners too. and I seemed to join the dots that the rat or at least this is what I thought at the time that the radiating pain was probably my sciatic nerve and that the pain in my glute area I thought that might have been the piriformis muscle that might have been irritating the sciatic nerve and so I looked at how to initially I looked at how to relieve piriformis pain because I thought I found lots of information online about how you should be stretching the area and you should be foam rolling. And so I actually because I thought that was that was the issue I thought I'm going to get right on top of this as I bought an intense foam roller and I was stretching it daily. I even got a hockey ball and I started rolling on that. Because I thought that I was really isolating the piriformis muscle in that in that region. I thought I really get in there. And after weeks of trying that, that the pain wasn't going away. And by this stage, sitting was becoming worse and worse. And even in social contexts and car rides, it was, it was becoming stressful. So I started to become more and more frustrated with things because I thought, well, this isn't working. I probably need to see a specialist about this. And who'd you go sort out after that? Uh, I think, um, well, I came, I saw a GP initially, um, cause I thought I would just go to a doctor. Um, these pain, this pain's horrible and they prescribed me anti-inflammation. I took those for a few weeks. I think looking back on it now, I understand. Inflammation. I think too long, I shouldn't have taken them for that long. And I don't think I needed to, but I was just thinking that it was helping. Um, and the GP at the time said he thought that an ultrasound would be a good idea just to confirm the diagnosis first. And so I had an ultrasound early this year, 2021, and that indicated that actually nothing wrong with my piriformis and that it was my hamstring origins that looked like it had PhD. Um, And I can remember when that happened, I was sort of shocked because up until that time, I thought it was the period of formists and now it's something else. And I'd never heard of what PhD was. Uh, so I went to physio in Melbourne and then started researching the condition. That's how I found your podcasts. Both the overcoming PhD podcast and then the run smarter podcast. And so I started listening to those. Uh, and once I got. onto those, I just got hooked and I couldn't stop and I wanted to get on top of the condition and get better so I can get back to running as soon as I could. And then that's how I found you. Right. Okay. And you've illustrated the sitting became quite uncomfortable, starting to impact social interactions as well as work. Was it starting to impact outside of sitting as well, like your running? Absolutely. So at the very start of this year, I felt a bit confused and anxious. And because all of those techniques like the hockey ball and trying to stretch and foam rolling, they weren't working. The pain was getting worse and worse. I just thought I have to back off from the running. And so I took it right back to something that I've never really done before, at least in the last eight years, kilometers and really slow. Just something that was frustrating for me at the time. It was so hard because running was everything for me. I started taking up other things like exercise bike. I even tried reformer pilates, which that was before I knew it was PHT. For anyone who's been to reformer pilates, they'll know that... first thing the instructor tells you to do when you get in the room is a deep stretch through your glutes, which with hindsight was probably not helping my PhD. So yes, I backed right off and the two to three Ks was all I could manage in terms of running. I know that I was very weak because I wasn't doing any strength training at the time and I was still in pain. Yeah. And I guess at the time of reaching me and talking about, you know, your symptoms and everything that's happened, um, you seemed very knowledgeable. Obviously you've listened to the podcast and done a whole bunch of research yourself, and you're talking about like the stages of rehab and all this sort of thing, and so you're already off to a really good start doing all the research yourself, and I guess, was it the fact that, um, You were trying all these things and just not seeing the right results, which enticed you or, um, gave you the enough motivation to seek online physio. Yeah, I think, I think it was, I, I felt, I felt like at that point in time, when I started listening to your podcast, uh, I'd listened to it for a few weeks and I started to try some of the exercises, you know, like a stage one of, of the rehab, which is, it tends to be, I think is it. Um, how do they describe the, uh, what's the label for that kind of exercise? It's just like isometric holds. Yeah. I started those just body weight and I noticed I wasn't really progressing. I still had the pain. I hadn't started any weights yet, but it was just that stage one. And I was doing like, you know, the glute bridge, one leg, um, long lever, trying to do that, uh, just my body weight and that I just was, I was still in pain. Uh, And I think at that point in time, I hadn't, the penny hadn't really dropped yet that this is a really, this is a long-term thing and you're going to need to be patient with it. Um, so I thought this guy, Brody knows a lot about this condition. He's got this podcast, uh, and why not just speak to him? Yeah. It gets some additional help. That sounds, makes sense to me as well. And at the time we started working together, were you still doing those And were, was, were symptoms starting to, or continuing to increase or were they kind of stagnant at that stage? Uh, at that stage things, I definitely had pain and it was very stressful when I, when we first started working together, I'd started to, I think by that time I'd, I'd also worked out that I'm going to need to keep moving through these stages if I'm going to get anywhere. So I think by then I had signed up with a gym. to try and do, uh, I think I started with the hamstring curls just with weights. Uh, but by then I was, I still wasn't able to run like I wanted to. So I was, it might, by then it might have been, I might've built it up from two to three Ks, maybe up to four to five. And I was starting to progress that slowly. Yeah. And like, I did ask you in depth about like your symptoms and we did a couple of tests online, that sort of thing. And. Like even now I knew that a lot of your presentation was to do with the proximal hamstring tendon, but, um, highlighted that the overall symptoms weren't fitting the classic PhD, especially when you were talking about your sitting and how it would radiate down your leg all the way down to your foot. That's not really a classic sign and there might be some additional things going on. And so right off the bat, we knew that. starting some heavier PhD exercise would definitely help because we know that the hamstring tendon has, is involved in whatever particular way, how much it was involved would make sense once we start doing the rehab and seeing how you're responding. But from the get-go, we're like, and even to this day, like even the radiation down to the leg is not really determined, but. As we started working together and started implementing some strength and started implementing a few different things here and there, were there any key insights or bit of information or any breakthroughs that really helped accelerate your recovery? I think, yeah, I think there are probably three big things for me that, that looking back over that time when we were working together, that they were significant and they, they progressed me. in a meaningful way. And they're pretty simple. The first is, it was just stopping the stretching. And when I look back at, you know, going to pilates, and then initially thinking of piriformis, must stretch, that was, I think, as soon as I stopped stretching, I noticed I started to improve more. I think, secondly, understanding PHT, and it's, I'm coming at this from a sort of a lay person's perspective who doesn't, I don't have a physio background or have a medical background at all. So it was all very new to me how the kind of body works and the biomechanics and everything and your muscles and tendons and how tendons work and how they love load. I think understanding PHT, like investing the time to, for me it was listening to your podcasts and they're a great place to start. It wasn't until I actually understood the basic principles of a that tendons are not muscles, they respond very well to load if it's done right. I think it was when I started to, it became really visceral for me. I could be thinking about it all the time and actually have a deep understanding of my condition. That was when I started to notice little things like, oh, okay, it might not be worthwhile actually sitting for 12 or 14 hours that day. You should... standing desk and mix it up and then slowly build up your sitting over time. Um, so I think understanding the PhD was, was a massive breakthrough for me as a whole. And I think the third thing is, is the importance of strength training. I think that's, that was probably the missing link for me. And over, especially over the eight year history I have eight years of, of never really stepping into a gym once. Um, but continually running throughout that period and that being everything, that'd be the only exercise I do essentially. I think moving forward, I would, I would leave out that missing link ever again. And, um, when I look back at my mindset over the eight years, I think because I'd never had any issues before I'd never before PhD, I, I would sort of bounce back very quickly, I could run marathons. Um, I didn't really see any point in going to the gym and getting bulky. Um, I just want it to be lightweight and nimble. And when I thought back to it, um, all the people who seem to be the best runners, when you look at their physiques, they, the really good runners seem to be stick thin. Uh, and, um, but since I've been to the gym after my PhD, I've actually been running faster than I ever did when I was a lazy runner and I've been recovering very well. So That's what I'd say in terms of insights or breakthroughs for me. Yeah. I guess that's where that, um, misconception is created because people look at these, um, top elite marathon runners and see how skinny they are. But like we need to keep in mind, some people are just very genetically gifted, um, with their slender body type. And not only are they really skinny, but they can produce a lot of power. Like their tendon efficiency is through the roof, which is why they're able to perform at such high levels. But when it comes to the research and you get the, um, sample sizes of like consistent characteristics, and then you get someone to do strength training. And then you get on the other side, you get the same people with the same baseline characteristics to do. Say body weight exercises or no strength training at all, and just continue with their running the ones that actually strength train and do so with heavier weights, always outperform and outperform endurance events like half marathons and marathons. And so it's good that you've had that experience and noticing that once you've started doing strength training, you're actually running better and your performance is improving. And I think it's also worth going back to that one of those realizations that you had around tendons love load and actually progressing, even though body weight exercises were still sore. And I think there's like a lot of people that do have PHT, they do their isometrics, they do their body weight exercises and they never really want to progress because that those exercises still quite so and they're quite scared to start applying some load. And obviously there's, that can create quite a fear because you think it might make things worse if you do so. And it might if you do it too much, but we're never gonna know if you do. Body weight exercise for several months over and over, over again, never really progressing, perhaps what we need to do is just test it out and just test out some way to see how you go. Cause like you mentioned, and like I've said on the podcast several times before, tendons love load and perhaps we might be under loading the tendons, just not adapting to the ideal optimal load that tendons currently going through. And so. Um, yeah, we're never going to know unless you start loading and seeing how it responds because maybe heavier is just what someone needs to tick them over the edge, which is probably something that you experienced in your head rehab. Would you agree? Absolutely. I think the, for some people, the body weight stage one might work. Um, for me, I, my own experience was that I didn't really notice much progression in it. My pain didn't. really improved just from the body weight. It wasn't until I got into a gym and got down onto the hamstring curl with a weight, you know, the one where you're kind of on your stomach and you just one leg at a time lifting it up sort of from your to almost meet your ankle to your back. That consistently was where I noticed a massive increase. And when I first you know, I first got on the machine and it was a bit painful. I thought, oh, Like you say, the pain sort of made me think, mm, not too sure about this. But because I hadn't done so much and I'd listened to your podcast and I understood that pain is okay initially. And once I got past that, I started to kind of push myself a little bit more but still sort of within safe bounds with those and the repetition of those hamstring curls with the weight. I suddenly noticed I'd wake up a day after I done weights and I felt much better than I did before I did the weights. It's a good insight as well. And like all the lessons that I've been trying to, um, illustrate to people through this podcast is exactly what, um, you're going through, like you're going through the apprehensions being like, Oh, it's causing pain. Should I continue? But then seeing what the response is like after that exercise and seeing you actually responding quite favorably. And then when you repeat that over several weeks, that becomes a lot easier. Were there any other exercises? strength exercises that you think had a profound impact on you in the gym? Um, I think so, uh, my own, and this might not work for everyone, but my own experience was that the starting with the hamstring curls with weight was a really good way to, it felt like almost warm up my tendons, um, get them slowly eased into it because it wasn't, there wasn't much hip flexion, introduce them to load. So I tended to do that at the start of a weight session. And that's still probably one of my favorite exercises, that hamstring curl one. But after a while, I think I started about 15 kilograms per leg, and then I slowly increased. So I got up to sort of 20, 25, and then even 30 kilograms per side, which I thought, okay, that's quite a decent bass to have. now it's time to introduce some hip flexion. So once I felt confident with that, I started moving into, you know, like squats, deadlifts, these are all very new for me. So I kind of was a little bit confused. And you were very helpful with giving me pointers on my form, because it was, it felt a bit foreign and an unusual movement because I've never done it before. But the deadlifts were great for it. Also sort of, you know, the split squats, arabesques were very good. And I also, and then, so it was sort of, I suppose that's really to be described as stage three, this sort of split squats, arabesques, that deadlift type exercise where you're introducing more hip flexion slowly and still feeling good, checking how you recover the next day. And then we started introducing kettlebell swings. And that's another one. I had no idea how to do them at first. Yep. Took a bit of practice. Looking back at some of my first videos of trying to do them. It's a good laugh. Um, and you helped me with my technique to become, I think we said more explosive and really drive up with my glutes and that was, it was after doing those particular exercises that. I wake up the next morning and I'd notice real fatigue in my glute muscles, which was something that I'd sort of almost never felt before. So I noticed that was a, that was a great exercise and I enjoy those ones in particular, but I think it's sort of all of them really. Uh, I don't think, yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't think there's just one. I think sort of the mix was really good. Yeah. I think it's worth not noting as well that whenever like through this online process, uh, you were just sending me videos of you doing these exercises and I was just commenting back and forth saying, Oh, how about try this? How about try that? Um, when you did start doing things like squats, things like deadlifts, things like kettlebell swings, we'd always start really light. We'd always start with, um, you know, either just, yeah, just really light weights that we to find out if your technique was okay first, because we want a good technique with these sort of exercises before we start applying the load. And so it's a very, um, a good tip or a cautious sort of tip for people to have if they decide to start progressing themselves and the kettlebell swings came after, you know, several weeks of doing the dead lifts themselves, because it's the same deadlift movement, but just with more power and yeah. once we started with the light kettlebell to see the technique was okay. Did you find that actually the heavier kettlebell made, made it a bit easier to kind of appreciate how to generate that, that force and that swing through the legs? Yeah, it did because, um, so for the benefit of listeners, I started with a very light kettlebell. I think that we said one that was about either 10 or 15 kilograms to begin with. And my form with that was so awkward. I. I wasn't driving up through my glutes. I was sort of just swinging it awkwardly and I wasn't really understanding it. But then when I, I think I've moved up to about a 20 kilogram kettlebell and that made a big difference. So it might've either, I don't know, it was increasing weight or it was just becoming more conscious about how I was moving my body and the biomechanics of it sort of just become, with a bit more thought and I started filming myself in the gym to try and just check that it's going okay. And I think with all of that, I think I got there in the end. This podcast is sponsored by the Run Smarter series. If you want to take your knowledge building to the next level, I have built out a proximal henshrink tendinopathy video course, which complements the podcast perfectly. Sometimes it's tough delivering concepts and exercises through an audio format. So the course brings a visual component full of rehab exercise examples. graphs and visual displays to enhance your understanding. Even if you sign up now, you'll have access to all current and future modules that I create. Sign up through my link in the show notes, then download the Run Smarter app, and you'll instantly have unlimited access to all the course resources on any device. And to say thanks for being a podcast listener, I want to give you a VIP offer. There will be a link in the show notes in every episode that will provide you 50% off the course price. Just click on the link and it will automatically apply your 50% discount. Yeah, nice. And currently, I'm speaking today, how's the rehab, I guess, prior to lockdown, as we just went in for the last week, but prior to that, what, what were you like in the gym, how's your running going? What's the symptoms like? Um, prior to the lockdown, we're currently in, as I talked to you right now, uh, my running was, has improved dramatically. So I, on weekends, on a Sunday morning, I try to do a 20K and I've been able to, since we've been working together, I've probably run a good few of them, sort of five or six of those over a couple of months, which compared with how I was at the start of the year, compared with how I was end of last year is a massive achievement. And I think I need to just pause and feel very grateful that I've been able to progress to that stage. The other thing I'd say about my running at the moment, well, there's the distance, and I do that very slowly, I should say. So that's like an embarrassingly slow speed, but just making sure that it's short steps, nice cadence. My foot is hitting underneath my body rather than in front. So there's the long, short, easy, you know, I mean, long, but it's some distance, but very slow running. Then it also, I've started introducing a bit of speed into my running, which is something I've never done in the last eight years. So I started off very slow. Uh, and then I'll try, okay, I say, all right, for this next kilometer, I'm going to run a four minute, no, four minute chaos, something like that. Start with that, see how I feel. And after I did that a few times, it started to work quite well. And I started getting faster and faster, um, but not running. long distance, just keeping it short and warming up for a while. So really, really slow for the first say 15 minutes. And then I might do a few kilometres. So one fast and then two slow, one fast, two slow, something like that. And that's been a nice way to introduce the speed into my running. So I think now my running is more varied than it was in the past. It's not so one-dimensional. I wasn't just getting up, going in that 10k and then sitting. I'm getting up going for a really fast one on like a Monday and Tuesday might be rest. And then the Wednesday might be a bit more of a tempo and then I might have a rest or cross train for a day. I find the ellipticals been quite good with the cross training and then I might save up, have a break on Friday and then do a really long run on Sunday. And my recovery from all of those has been really good. I think in terms of running function, great. Yeah, massive improvement. And I think I'm, I'm probably in terms of function and speed and everything back to where I was originally. So at least if not faster, I think the speed I've never ran at those speeds before, so that's yeah, massive achievement. Yeah, absolutely. And it's, it's a huge achievement that it's good that you're taking a step back and recognizing because a lot of runners don't necessarily do that. But I think, um, It's worth also pointing out when, when people are runners and they have to rehab their injuries and we get them in the gym to start doing heavier stuff. And sometimes they might not like it. It's good to point out like the, the cherry on top is like, overall, you're going to become a better runner anyway. Even if you weren't injured, even when you overcome this injury, the back end of it, you're just going to be a better runner because you're going to be lifting heavier weights and that's what the research shows to improve running performance. So it's another entice out to get people to actually do it. Um, how about your sitting because we know that from the get-go, the radiating down all the way down to the foot isn't a real classic, um, presentation when it comes to PhD. So how have you noticed those symptoms, um, as the months have gone on? Yeah, it's, it's a great question. I think when I, when I reflect on my rehab, how it is at the moment, I, I've been thinking about it from progress from two angles. One's the running function. And that. Remarkably, that's very good at the moment. But the second angle is how I am with sitting and pain and how I am with work and is it uncomfortable. And unfortunately, from that angle, I still have sitting pain. It has improved since we, I think when we first started working together, I would last about an hour before I'd be in quite, pain that would sort of impede your concentration and would be would be really uncomfortable. Now I'm sitting a good few hours before I notice a pain come on. And so some of the strategies, I think that have contributed to that would be one, all of the strength work that we've done in terms of strengthening the tendon, making it thicker and a bit healthier. I also now have a sit-stand desk, which I use to not avoid sitting altogether, but just... slowly work up to it. So just give myself a break from sitting and go back and forth and try and slowly increase the sitting with time. And then also you and I tried what are known as nerve flossing exercises to help with that pain. And so potentially the, I do know from the past, from past experiences, nerve exercises do take like several weeks to know if there's any benefits. So it's extremely, has to be a very extremely slow and patient kind of process. But yeah, I'd agree. I think the combination of those things would be directly contributing to a slow improvement. But like you said, it is quite slow if only it improved just as well as like the running did. But yeah, I'm very curious to know how that progresses. throughout the next couple of weeks, the next couple of months to see how things go. But like I said, I'm still a little bit puzzled presentation-wise with those sorts of symptoms, but if it's tending in the right direction, then I'd say continue exactly what things are doing, how things have worked for you in the past. As we finish up today, is there anything you'd like to share regarding if someone is currently... going through PHT and is kind of at that end stage rehab, but they just can't kick it. They just can't get to that final point and really, yeah, I guess see their own breakthrough if they're a bit stagnant in that stage two phase. Yeah, I think it's, I think I have to say that for people who are in that stage, I know what it feels like. I can remember like it was yesterday I was having to limit myself to sort of running a 2K and psychologically that can, it is completely demoralizing, especially if you have a history of being quite a decent runner. And I think what I would say to your listeners is that the best thing you can do is to just trust in the process and understand that it's... is something that you're going to need to be patient about. And some people might recover quicker than others. But if you keep following the steps, you start at stage one or two, wherever you are, and slowly increase it with time and remain disciplined with it, it will work. And I think, I mean, I'm at stage three at the moment. And my next big goal is mastering stage four exercises, the plyometric ones. So I need to work out a good routine to do those. So I'm not completely out of the woods yet. And I don't think that someone with PhD will completely be able to forget about it for their whole life necessarily. But if you just keep up the discipline and slowly increasing it day by day, it will work in the end. And suddenly, after a number of months, you'll be in a position where you're noticing big changes when you look back. I also think it's good to point out the fact that you are trying different variety with your running as well, because that overall contributes to a bit more of resiliency. I think a lot of people, once they're returning to running and returned to a distance of running that they're happy with, they're just stuck in that same speed, um, stuck in that slow kind of conservative easy run and they're, they're not, they're too fearful to kind of push themselves, but if you push gradually enough, then the speed work actually becomes a part of your rehab. It almost becomes like an exercise. And as you start giving yourself that variety and your tendon and hamstrings start adapting to different speeds, it overall contributes to more resiliency. And if people want to really play it safe and really just keep to that same speed that they know they're happy with over and over and over again, it's just Creating just a real thin line for you to travel down. And anytime you like have to change terrain or change speed, if you go for a race or if you run with a friend and they pick up the pace slightly, it's only going to leave you to an increase in likelihood of flare up because your tendon just hasn't been exposed to that before. And so with you actively seeking out faster speeds that you haven't done, like you said, in like six years or the eight years that you've been a runner, it's. It's. Yeah, real testament to the goals that you're striving for and to try and have this overall goal for overall resiliency. So congratulations on that as well. Thank you very much, Brody. As we finish up, first of all, I want to say a big congrats to what you have been able to achieve. But also for the listeners to know that the... The particulars, like everyone's very different. Every tendon is completely different. Every stage of every tendon is very different. So what might work for James might not work particularly for another individual, but the principles are still there. So you're saying that you really benefit from say, prone hamstring curls at the start, and then really benefit from kettlebell swings. Um, all those little particulars might really be advantageous for someone, but then for others, it might not be. as responsive as you've once had. So the particulars might be different from the individuals, but the principles are still the same. The principles around the progression for loading and, you know, finding the right type of exercises for you and making sure that it's okay if there's a little bit of pain during, as long as there's no hangover effects, 24 hours afterwards. And just following those key principles that we talk about throughout the podcast is something that everyone's just try for and they should have a very, very similar response. And so, um, it's good to hear stories from you because you've kind of been there. You've been through the lessons that we teach in the podcast and you've seen the other side of it and it's like kind of proof that it is working. And so a big thanks, big thanks for all that you've achieved a big congratulations for you've achieved and thanks for coming on and sharing your story. That's a pleasure. Thanks for having me, Brody. Thanks once again for listening and taking control of your rehab. If you are a runner and love learning through the podcast format, then go ahead and check out the Run Smarter podcast, hosted by me. I'll include the link along with all the other links mentioned today in the show notes. So open up your device, click on the show description, and all the links will be there waiting for you. Congratulations on paving your way forward towards an empowering, pain-free future, and remember... Knowledge is power.