PHT Warm-Ups/Yoga/Post-Op Instructions/Pain in Multiple Areas

: Before we start the show, just letting you know, this is a sneak peek of a exclusive episode that is released alongside the PHT membership. This is what members receive, and you can join it also right now with the link in the show notes. I start off by sharing what members have posted, their wins and successes for the week, and also answer their questions that have come in for that week. This episode was recorded about three months ago. And there are tons more episodes like this that you can listen to if you do sign up as a member. So enjoy. On today's episode, we have another PhD membership Q&A. Welcome to the podcast helping you overcome your proximal hamstring tendinopathy. This podcast is designed to help you understand this condition, learn the most effective evidence-based treatments and of course, bust the widespread misconceptions. My name is Brodie Sharp. online physiotherapist, recreational athlete, creator of the Run Smarter series, and a chronic proximal hamstring tendinopathy battler. Whether you are an athlete or not, this podcast will educate and empower you in taking the right steps to overcome this horrible condition. So let's give you the right knowledge along with practical takeaways in today's lesson. Welcome back everyone. I have returned back from travels and, um, was traveling to Western Australia for two weeks and had a wedding to attend and my newborn four and a half months now trying to travel with her was a whole new challenge and a whole bunch of other challenges because she caught COVID and my partner caught COVID and, you know, it was a challenging time, but we still managed to have fun and do what we normally would in. given healthier circumstances, but back now, and we've got a lot of activity in the Slack community that I wanted to share. I think, you know, I might continue sticking to this similar format of sharing people's wins and insights and those sorts of things before diving into the questions, which we'll get to in a second. But I want to start off with Georgie, and I know a lot of you have listened to her already. I have wanted... I wanted to do these because these podcast episodes last forever, but the Slack posts only last 33 months. And so for those people listening to this in a year's time, I think sharing these sort of videos are nice. So some of you may have already heard Georgie's story and Georgie, if you're listening to this, you might want to skip past if you don't like hearing your own voice. I know it took a while for me to get over that being a podcast up, but I... jumped on a chat with Georgie and her story is like just really compelling. Um, very, it's, it's definitely worth a share. And so I encouraged her. I'm like, you know, share on the Slack community. I know you see the benefit in reading everyone's posts, help be that. For someone else and took a while, but she managed to get to it and the positivity and response for everyone in the community was just so great. And, um, so thank you, Georgie for doing that. And also thank you for allowing me to share it. to the podcast. So I'll share that clip now. And yeah, Georgie, you can skip through it if you want to. And this people that have the problems rather than people that have recovered from the problems. I have struggled with this probably on and off for the last eight years I would say and never really either taken it seriously or ever got away with it or you know children and other circumstances have sort of become either more important or as I say I sort of probably just sort of managed it through luck and I hit a bit of a rock bottom in about March this year and that was when I stumbled across this podcast and it's been pretty life changing and I'm really grateful. I then listened, I think I listened to every single episode, but also I think Jen's story of her chronic pain journey came out and I was rather shocked to recognise many of my own traits in there as someone who considers themselves not to be at risk of this and highly aware I am a physiotherapist, I should know better. I found it very interesting and after chatting to some friends, was able to admit that my pain had become very context driven and I was sort of lame on other people, but I felt with the circumstances where my injury and discomfort was getting worse. And so being able to admit that, vocalize it, identify it, and sort of put it to the side and sort of readjust what was important for me was a massive, massive turning point. And I really, really didn't see that one coming. But I think also I wanted to share that for me, I went from being able to, well, not being able to do anything. When I say anything, lying in bed still seemed to be aggravating. Sitting was an absolute no. Walking hurt, going to work, everything. Cleaning, housework, farming, physioing, everything that I needed to do every day was an aggravating factor. And I could not see a way out. And so I sort of started from the bottom up really, started with my feet and with the sort of podcast and with Brodie's guidance just prioritized three very simple things and I think my turning point was consistency, not missing a day and protecting that time really for myself. And the next big change for me before I reintroduced running was lifting weights and I had put that off I think since having children it had been something that I had struggled with and because I do a lot of manual work I sort of thought well you know I do that every day but how wrong I was. I needed to define it and as Brodie has said, you've got to write it down, you've got to be strict, you've got to have it in the plan, it can't just be something that's let to chance. So once I started being able to get into the position of a deadlift and deadlift, then I started running and it felt strange but even with, I think I've been running for what I would call running for probably about five weeks. But I just wanted people to know that in that space of time, so from March and April this year when I was nothing I could do and it was still getting worse I would say into May and now we're in the beginning of November and I'm feeling stronger. I can take my shoe off, I think for the first time in two, three years I can pull my welly off. Don't underestimate how much of a relief that is. Picking the kids up off the floor, all the things that were just everyday grind are suddenly almost comfortable and actually feel like they're a good exercise to do now. So that's my sort of story, my quick wins. I also bought a saddle chair which I got again on Facebook marketplace for about £10. Absolutely changed my life. I don't need it but I have it there. I don't always sit on it, the children like to play with it. And I did get off Amazon a very expensive cushion for about 70 pounds, which actually did really help me. And there was a point when I went to carry around with me, um, like a sort of kid with a booster seat and, um, everyone was very embarrassed by me as I turned up to dinner party with my little booster seat, but it worked for me. Um, and so, yeah, I just wanted to share that. Thanks once again, Georgie. Uh, we also have a few other, uh, insights and wins coming in from the Slack community. So, uh, let's go with Sabina. who also said that she read Georgie's message as well, or listened to it and said that Georgie shared her story and pointed out that we have a huge bias in these therapy groups. Successfully healed people will leave the group and you won't hear back from them. So it is like a bit of a skewed sort of sample size when you do run into these communities. We feel like nobody gets out of this injury, which is not true. So here is my success story. I am a long-term patient. because I did train many months with PHT and it took me another year before getting the right treatment. I think Jordi sort of explained it was quite similar circumstances for her as well. Since then, I have finished two marathons successfully and still had pain in the hamstrings and not to dare to run fast, but had a great experience and really enjoyed it. Last week, I ran my second marathon and could run at a pace I wanted to and anticipated. I feel my hamstrings, but the pain is between a one and a three, never above. This is just to let you know that not to give up. I had times last year I could not sit for five minutes. My most important learnings are my strength training, that my strength training I still do twice a week and an Excel spreadsheet where I write my training and pain levels. This helped immensely. I wanted to share some learnings about less expected triggers of a flare up and I wanted to be aware of. Number one was sitting, sometimes the duration, sometimes the type of chair, either too hard or with an incline. Sitting on a train or a car was often worse. So trying to identify and point out what elements of sitting was irritating more than others. The other thing that Sabina put was yoga, pegging out the washing. So constantly bending over seemed to be troublesome. Doing running drills, so a bit more speed work and was somehow causing a flare up. Running on the beach was an insight for her and also sightseeing, which included a lot of walking and sitting. So she mentions that in one of the podcasts, Brody shared the flare up plan. There's an episode there on how to, on a flare up plan. I found this very useful and have a go-to plan in cases if I need. So thanks for sharing both of those posts Sabina. We had Said as well who said, I want to share my success story. Thanks to Brody's Rehab, I went on vacation that included two flights of over five hours. Wouldn't have thought I could tolerate that again after being stuck, being unable to sit for more than five to 10 minutes in late 2021. But just stick to good rehab principles and anything can happen. Thanks for sharing that mate. Nice and quick, concise and lot of positivity there and congratulations on the flight as well. Janine also put massive win last week was the last lot of races I'd entered in the hope that I'd be better in time. It was a night and a dawn five-mile with less than 12 hours to recover. Taking on board everything Brody said about needing to not enter races I gave away the evening run and treated the dawn run as a really nice slow social run chatting with a friend. and a few random strangers. I ran the continuous five miles, stopped for a couple of selfies, but zero walking. Best run since February. Biggest change is two gym sessions per week that has a range of weight-based stuff, but always includes deadlifts and Nordic hip dips at home. I can run provided I keep my pace where it needs to be, and this is absolutely huge. I won't be tackling hills anytime soon or up in my distance, but it is still absolutely the most hope I've had for months. I love reading these and I hope all of you in the community are enjoying reading these as well. If you do have any wins, I know over the next couple of weeks people will have wins. Probably posting about it isn't on the forefront of people's minds, but hopefully listening to these episodes you're prompted to be like, oh, what was the next? the last week that I did, or some wins or insights that I had, and then just post away because we can already tell and see people's responses to how beneficial these posts are. Thanks everyone for posting, and thanks everyone for posting their podcast questions because we have our first one coming in from Alex who says, what is a good pre-run warmup routine while tackling PHT? but do these put a high load on the hamstring? Is it enough to simply walk at a fast pace before breaking into a jog? Let's start with warmups just in general. If someone's not injured, there is something to be, while there's not a lot of research to support stretching warmups like dynamic or static warmups as something that can reduce your risk of injury. increase running performance or increase your recovery. What we tend to fall back on is just do what feels good for you. Cause I know some people can do some warm up routines, do some stretches, some leg swings, static or dynamic and feel so much better when they run. Their mechanics feels more fluent, their stride feels more fluent, but I also know a lot of runners that just feel indifferent. I know I feel indifferent when I go for a short or a slow run. compared to stretching versus non-stretching. Some weeks might be different, some weeks I might be having like heavy gym workouts and I sort of feel a little bit stiff. I usually prefer a quick little stretch here and there and I feel better for my run, the start of my run after doing those. So make that conscious decision, but just know that I'm not doing it to reduce my risk of injury or increase my running performance just because it feels better. But that's just one side of things. When it comes to... the PHT specific stuff, I think that there are things you can do. I think I might've mentioned this on a Q&A, maybe at the first episode, but some tendons respond quite well, have an analgesic effect when doing some slow heavy loading or some isometrics. So loading up the tendon and holding that position, such as a long lever bridge, whether that be like double leg or single leg, holding it for 15 seconds. 10 to 20 seconds in that given ballpark range. If you do that once or twice, 10 feels a lot better. And when you go for a run, it's warmed up, it's experienced that analgesic effect and it can carry over into the running. So, PHT specific, you might wanna do those long lever bridges, you might even wanna do one or two sets of deadlifts or whatever you find is beneficial. But I guess that's only for clients who start a run and have like a one out of 10 symptoms at the start of the run, they want to get that down to zero, that could definitely be right up your alley. But if you don't really get symptoms during the run, and it's just the symptoms that elevate after the run, which is quite common, or the next morning, then those type of exercises may not be as beneficial. stretching kind of routine will definitely change if you go from a slow easy jog and you're upping your running or you've now progressed your running so that once or twice a week you're doing some sort of sprinting sessions or hill sprints or strides or those sorts of things. If you would have planned to do quite an explosive fast effort you do need to do some warm-ups. You do need probably do some stretches but the warm-up active warm up would be more beneficial and that could just be starting off as in an easy effort, like start off slow and gradually pick up the pace and then get into your interval session. That would just be a sufficient warm up, that's what I would do. If I was doing say one kilometre efforts, my first kilometre or my first say 30 to 60 seconds would be really slow. And then throughout my first kilometer, I just gradually accelerate, so that by the end of that kilometer, I have reached the effort or pace that I want to achieve during my one kilometer repeats, and then I'd get into those repeats. So just bear that in mind. Alex, based on your question, you're mentioning like butt kicks and high knees. Does that put too much load on the high hamstring? The butt flicks, no. I guess they would if you're not used to it. It is very low load, but very fast load. If you are doing high knees, you're looking at a bit of compression through the tendon or like stretch through the tendon, which should be fine if you're used to it. It's relatively low load, but it's fast load. Similar with the hamstring kind of butt kicks. you are activating your hamstring under low load. Like I say, it's like the weight of your moving tibia and foot, but it's very fast. So you can do those things quite slow. See what you're comfortable with. If you are used to doing them, they should be perfectly safe. I just don't want someone saying they're perfectly safe and not doing any of them. And all of a sudden doing these really fast dynamic type of things that they're not used to in it, just irritate them a little bit. So perfectly safe to do. If you're unsure of how you would go with them, just do some gentle knee, high knees, do some gentle butt kicks. And if it goes relatively well, then you can do them a bit faster. Thank you, Alex. Let's move on to Janine who asks, I've cut out yoga completely, the stretching irritated things, and it gives me more time to do other stuff, but I quite like a weekly yoga session. would love some advice on stretching and PHT. Really feels like it doesn't want to be overstretched, but would really value your view on yoga and stretch classes when these, and if these help or hinder. Okay, let's talk about stretching. Because there's been like a huge shift in people's understanding of stretching. Initially, it was encouraged to stretch. If you went to a physio 10 years ago, 15 years ago, say okay pain high hamstring just do these stretches should feel better. Made things feel better in the moment but didn't help things in the long term because you know when you stretch the hamstring and the high hamstring is irritated the tendons irritated it kind of feels like this good sort of soreness and you're like oh yeah it's finally targeting the area and I kind of feel some relief after doing it but that relief might only be for a minute or so. But if you overstretch and stretch beyond its capacity to tolerate stretching, it just stays irritated. It doesn't do anything for the longterm. Like week over week, this doesn't get better. That's where the strengthening comes into it. Raising the capacity and raising your tolerance by doing deadlifts and hamstring curls and those sorts of things and being quite progressive with them. That's the longterm solution. But then we caught on to stretching as not being effective and potentially causing some irritation if overdone. And so people have really shifted into the opposite side of the spectrum and being very fearful to stretch and avoiding stretching altogether. And, you know, things are calmed down, things get better pain subsides, but then their fear of bending over to pick something up or to stretch or go back to yoga is incredibly fearful for them. So we've got these. two sides of the spectrum and the right answer is somewhere in the middle. Janine, for your question, if stretching, well, I guess for other people, if stretching isn't your goal, if you don't wanna get back to yoga classes, you still should do some stretching but just enough to function daily, pick something up off the floor, getting in and out of a car, getting off the floor, playing with kids and whatever you need to do for function, you shouldn't be fearful to do those things. You need to find what you can tolerate. If you can't tolerate a lot of stretching right now because you've avoided for such a long period of time, then gradually introduce it and find what you can tolerate. It's similar to running, it's similar to deadlifting, it's similar to squatting. These things can be overdone and can irritate things if done too much. But if we try and find what you can tolerate, train within that zone and then progress. then you'll see an improvement. That's what we wanna do with your stretching. We wanna eventually, well, hopefully everyone has a goal to get to the point to tolerate stretching for daily function. But we then go another step forward if your goal is then to want to stretch in something like a yoga class or a stretching class. So the answer is all about finding what you can now currently tolerate. It is perfectly safe to stretch. similar as it's perfectly safe to deadlift. We just need to try and find the right balance and allow your body the time to adapt to the stretching and do so accordingly. And we do that just based on symptoms, like everything else. We do a little bit of stretching, see what symptoms are like during, see what symptoms are like after, the next day, see if symptoms are improving week by week and just build up that tolerance. And so... I wouldn't really recommend if you haven't done a yoga class or you haven't done a lot of stretching to then attend a yoga class because that might be a big jump compared to what you can tolerate. But there are some really good five minutes, 10 minutes YouTube videos that you can follow that just follow a yoga routine. There might be some stretches in there that don't really involve a lot of the hamstrings so you can focus on those or modify ones that do involve the hamstring. You might want to build out that 10 minute. yoga YouTube video to then 20 minutes, 30 minutes, and then we sort of start to um, bridge the gap to an actual yoga class. And then you might want to transition into a yoga class if symptoms are fine. But if there's a lot of hamstring stuff in there, maybe come up with some modifications. So if there's, you know, if you're sitting on the floor, I don't know much about yoga, but, um, if you're sitting on the floor and you're doing like legs are out straight and you have to bend forward. maybe putting a block under your pelvis to elevate that and have less of a stretch on the hamstrings might be some modifications for the first couple of weeks but we're all trying to find out what you can tolerate and progressing towards your goals. Don't be fearful to stretch, always just start off with what you can tolerate and have a plan to build up from there. Thanks for your question Janine. We have two coming in from Rusa who is a new member to the community, so welcome, and thanks for posting your questions. She asks, those who have had surgery and still chronic pain versus those who haven't, is the rehab similar? So surgery versus those who haven't had surgery. This one was a bit of a tough one to answer. I would definitely say 100%, you need to follow the post-operative restrictions or guidelines that's provided by your surgeon. We say that because every surgery is slightly different. Everyone has, I'm assuming that if you have had surgery, that does mean that you've had some sort of damage or tear or something that's prompted the surgery and every tear is different. Therefore, every approach to surgery is slightly different. They have different attachments, they have different graphs that they might use, slightly different approaches in terms of. what they might cut through to then get to the hamstring. There might be complications in surgery. I'm not a surgeon. I don't know much about the surgeries themselves. So it's hard for me to say, but always your surgeon should provide you with some instructions on what the first couple of days look like, what the first week looks like, what the first... month looks like in terms of what you're able to return back to because it is slightly different from person to person. I have had people that have had surgery have been left a little bit in the dark, a little bit of less information for what I would like. Just not a lot of restrictions stuff is just like, oh, just pass them off to a PT and away you go with rehab. But I would highly encourage if you have had surgery or you are planning on getting surgery, ask your surgeon what are the post-operative instructions, guidelines, restrictions and timeframes and those sorts of things really have that laid out at least for the first four weeks and make sure that they are providing you with those. But beyond that, beyond the post-operative sort of healing phase, I would say rehab is pretty much similar. only because we want to try and restore strength function capacity. That's what we do in rehab. And that's what you should do post-operative anyway. You should find out what the limitations are. You should find out what your functional movements are like, restoring those functional movements, what your strength is like, building up any sort of weak areas with your strength. If you do have like say reattachment surgery and you've got this anchor point, That should be really strong. Once you've passed the healing phase, which hard to say, it might take a few months before you can actually get full union or full healing, but you should be able to start some strengthening within a month or so. And by month four, month five, month six, it should really look, you should be strength training similar to what you would if you hadn't had surgery. But what I would say is, if the surgery itself was fairly extensive, if you've had some complications or if you've had a lot of chronic issues before the operation and you hadn't really built out a lot of strength before the operation, we'd treat things a little bit more conservatively. And by that I mean we'd progress your strength a little bit slower, progress your deadlifts a little bit slower, we'd reintroduce say sitting or lunging or bending. still introduce those things and still be progressive with those things, but we'd just be a little bit more patient, take a little bit more time based on the circumstances and the reality that is the surgery. That's my best answer, Rusar, I hope that helps. And I know a lot of these are sort of retrospective, you probably can't go back to your surgeon and ask what were the post-op instructions, but hopefully if someone's planning on having surgery in the future, maybe that's something that's helpful for them. Rusar, you also ask, First symptoms was a sore foot, then super tight adductor, then side glute pain, and then PHT. Any clues about that? You continue to say for five years, my question has been, which is the chicken, which is the egg, and does it even matter? I really enjoyed this question. I enjoyed sort of writing out a bit of a template of what may contribute. So if someone has had a foot issue, then a doctor issue, then a hip issue, and then PhD has all developed in quite quick succession, say over a couple of months. It could all be related. And there are a few things that sort of spring to my mind that I would suspect. One of them is potentially just chronic over training because we know that these pains for the most part, if it is just purely mechanical, it is due to either overtraining or under recovering. So theoretically, you could be training for a marathon and the ramp up to that marathon is just too quick. You're training for a marathon in say three months when you should really be taking 10 months. That chronic overtraining can lead to a sore foot, can lead to a tight adductor, can lead to hip issues, can lead to PHT. So That's one thing I'd look at the global sort of training or what was happening at that time and seeing if you're just doing too much. But the other side of that equation is under recovering because you can get overloaded or overuse injuries if you keep your training the same, but your recovery is inadequate. So poor sleep would be probably the biggest one, nutrition, those sorts of things. Are you fueling your body enough? for the output that it has? Or if you're getting the adequate downtime, are you getting the necessary recuperation phase or is it the body just always in overdrive and being overloaded? So that would be my first thing. What is the global training process? Is there an overtraining component? Is there an under recovery component? And maybe that has led to a whole bunch of different things popping up. But then the other thing might be compensation because when you're injured, you move differently, you run differently, you might negotiate life outside of running differently. And then that can cause pressures and things on other areas. So let's say like if you move differently, if I had low back pain, which, you know, with a newborn I did have in the first couple of weeks, very hard for me to straighten up completely, really start to ache. around my neck, around my shoulders, just because I couldn't really stand properly. So I was moving differently throughout space and that was really taking a toll on other areas of my body. Some people run differently. If they're injured or if they're in pain or maybe they've got an injury but they're running symptom free but this injury is on the back of their mind, sometimes they're a bit more cautious to land, sometimes they'll change how they contact the ground, sometimes they'll be a bit more stiff. their core will be a little bit more activated, they're not as loose and fluent as they once were, that puts extra load on other areas. And so that could be a difference. You could sit differently. How many times do people have PHT and they avoid sitting on one side of their sit bone and put a lot of pressure on their other sit bone because they essentially just tilt themselves to the side and then the other side starts getting sore because They're now on a firm surface for long periods of time, just putting direct pressure purely on the unaffected side. How many people get plantar fasciitis? The I see this quite often, people get PhD sitting hurts, they go to a sit stand desk, they stand so much that they start getting plantar fasciitis. That's another compensation that occurs just purely based on our habits and our changes in how we negotiate life based on that injury. So it's another thing that probably could happen, maybe not in your circumstances, Rusar, I'm not sure what other circumstances, but I digress. So we're looking at the global presentation, over training, under recovery. We're looking at maybe if there's any compensations that might be present, but we're also looking at pain sensitivity. And this is another one, another one of my interests. If everything could go, well, you could be training well, you could be like sensible with your progressions, sensible with everything else, but for whatever reason, and there are a number of reasons, the nervous system could be really hypervigilant, really wired up, really sensitive, and you could ramp up the pain sensitivity, and then all of a sudden, all these random pains start popping up. There seems to be some research that diet can play a role. A high carb diet can heighten the... pain sensitivity or at least doing a low carb diet can desensitize the pain system. There is some research to support that. Lack of sleep can increase pain sensitivity, increased stress, fear, worry. A high emotional state can definitely spark pain sensitivity. Um, your immune system can boost up, um, just as a slight tangent. I know. say just went traveling and both my partner Megan, my daughter Mackenzie both caught COVID. I kept doing the rat tests and I was negative but I did have this really random tib post tendon pain that lasted a day and I was really worried about it. I hadn't done anything. I actually hadn't ran, done any strength exercises. sure my sleep was affected because there's a three hour time zone difference. Sure. I was under a lot of stress because I had a crying baby and I had a sick partner and, um, it was a pretty chaotic, uh, drive to the accommodation with Mackenzie screaming the whole time. Um, I can't even remember what day it was actually. I'll take that back because only it was several days after I started getting this foot pain, but I just had this random foot pain and got really worried about it. And then the next day didn't do anything about it, but the next day, completely gone, completely, um, did not come back. And part of me was thinking, okay, I found out down the track that, okay, Megan had COVID, Mackenzie had COVID. I was negative, but maybe my immune system was kicking up was, was in defense mode because if Mackenzie had. COVID, I was definitely getting some dosage. I had her saliva on my face for like 25% of the day. So that's, you know, part of being a dad, but my immune system was probably kickstarting something. I know every time I have a booster or like a flu shot and my immune system naturally as it's designed to do kicks into gear, I get random pains. I had PHT pain, which I haven't had in years, come up for a day when I had one of my COVID boosters. And maybe that was the case. So anyway, if people are saying, I had this foot pain, then this calf pain, then this hip pain, then this back pain, then the shoulder pain, I'm thinking, okay, is there something to do with their pain sensitivity, something to do with their immune system, their fear, anxiety, diet, sleep? Is there something that's really just ramping up this nervous system? And lastly, Risa, you say, okay. which is the chicken, which is the egg, does it even matter? I would slightly lean more towards the, it doesn't matter. We can't know for sure. Like I can never know for sure if that random foot pain was my immune system kicking up and my nervous system just really being sensitive. I have no idea. I have suspicions, but you don't really know. And it's probably not worth a lot of time and energy and effort spent on trying to think about where this comes from. Um, sure, we do want to address what's there. If there is a foot pain that is causing compensations and leading to hip issues. Um, we don't really need to know what comes first. We need to address the foot issue. And we also need to address the hip issue and we need to address the lower back and PhD and whatever we have, we need to address all those things and make sure your rehab is adequate, but trying to wrap your brain around what came first and why, and all those sorts of things. Um, you're never going to know. And I don't think it's worth the time and energy. Cause I know a lot of people are quite fearful and hyperfixate on what the cause might be. They might see a physiotherapist and says, Oh, it's because you've got one leg longer than the other, or, you know, your core isn't activating or your glutes aren't switching on and all of these really fearful narratives. Um, I just don't think it's a lot of time and energy that should be spent on cause you're never going to know. And. It's probably less likely that it is a leg length discrepancy issue or a core or glutes non-activating issue. Just get everything nice and strong. Address what's in front of you. It's a bit, you've got a clearer mind. You've got a path forward rather than focusing on the past. You sort of got a path forward that's a bit more proactive and I think that's always a better place to be. So thank you everyone. Again, thanks for all your insights, sharing all your positivity and thanks for all your questions. I'll catch you in a couple of weeks with our next episode. Knowledge is power.