It's the last call for going to Greece. That's right. This spring, myself, along with dance and movement therapist Orit Krug, will be co-leading a somatic therapy retreat for polyamorous folks on the mythical island of Crete from March 31st to April 3rd, 2025. If you've been feeling like your brain is on board with non-monogamy, but your emotions are having a hard time catching up. If you've been struggling to access feelings of joy, safety, or ease.
Or if you're just feeling isolated in your non-monogamy journey and just want to kick back in a hammock or go for a walk in nature with other insightful polyamorous people, please consider joining us. We have space for solo poly individuals, for couples, for... triads, and more, but this retreat is quite small, so it's application only. Go to multiamory.com slash retreat for more information on our sliding scale rates and how to apply. Again, that's multiamory.com.
And I hope I can see you in Greece. 100% the same all the time because we're people and we change all the time and our emotions are fickle and ever-changing and ever-moving and I think there has to be a part of you that's going to be aware of that and going to be okay with that and just know like as difficult as that is and as much as you want to keep people safe and yourself safe i mean god i want to keep myself safe through all this too
But I know that, like, I don't know. And that has to be okay, too. and you just kind of go along for the ride and move it in the manner that you can as much as you can and also know that like at the end of the day it's going to be okay. You just have to do it with as much integrity as possible and be true to yourself. Welcome to the Multiamory Podcast. I'm Jace. I'm Emily. And I'm Dedeker. We believe in looking to the future of relationships, not maintaining the status quo of the past.
Whether you're monogamous, polyamorous, swinging, casually dating, or if you just do relationships differently, we see you and we're here for you. On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we are back answering questions from you, our lovely listeners. Today, we're going to be discussing... some first polyamorous relationships, handling your partner's new relationship energy, and if it's possible to limit how much you feel emotionally for another person.
All great questions. Thank you to everybody who sent those in. If you're interested in learning more about our fundamental communication tools that we reference on this show all the time, you can check out our book, Multiamory Essential Tools for Modern Relationships. which covers our most used communication tools for all types of relationships. And you can find links to buy that at multiemory.com slash book or wherever you like to get books.
It'll be there. And if not, tell that store owner that they should carry it and then you can buy it. A quick disclaimer before we dive in today. We've spent a lot of time studying, reading, writing, thinking, talking about healthy relationship communication, but...
We are not perfect, we are not experts, and we are not mind readers. So our advice is based solely on the limited information that we have. Please take it with a grain of salt. Everybody's situation is unique. And of course, we encourage you to use your own judgment. Seek professional help if needed. And you should know that these questions have been edited for time and clarity. Let's jump into the very first question of the day. This question says, should slash can your first relationship?
be Polly. The context is, hi, I have recently gotten into my first relationship ever and my partner is Polly. All my friends are telling me that it's a bad idea and I should try being in a quote-unquote normal monogamous relationship first. Although I'm nervous, I really connect with having the freedom of connection.
I haven't tried it yet and think that this is a great idea slash learning experience and am willing to put in the work to deconstruct monoconditioning. P.S. Love your podcast. Thank you so much for doing what you do. Signed, Worry Wombat. Oh, Worry Wombat. I just want to touch you. I know those little cheeks. Clean away your square-shaped poop. That's wombats, right?
Do they have square poop? They have square poop, yeah. Weird. Is it because they have a trash compactor inside them and they're actually robots? Well, okay, you're partially right. That's what we're actually learning today, everyone. No, they poop little cube-shaped.
And I think the theory is that they're a very territorial species and like they use their feces to mark their territory. And they live in very rocky areas. And so the idea that if you have a square shaped poop, it's not going to roll down the hill. Yeah. So that's an evolutionary advantage? Apparently. To have square poop. Apparently. Wow. Wow. You learn something new every day.
I should have covered this in our animal queendom episode. Yeah, that's for sure. What's the deal with wombats? Also, Worry Wombat, clearly we have some questions for you about your pooping habits and your territory protection habits. There you go. Yeah, maybe the territory protection is relevant to the question, I suppose. Boy, yeah, what a question. So your first relationship ever, I'm assuming just meaning like first...
romantic and probably sexual relationship ever. And it's with a person who's polyamorous already. Interesting about getting this advice from friends and family saying, actually, or I guess friends, not family, all my friends.
They're telling me it's a bad idea and I should try being in a normal relationship first. I'm just trying to think back to my first relationship when I was in high school and... I was 14 and I was dating somebody who was a little bit older than I was and thinking about what if I had the opportunity to date other people.
Because I remember in the middle of that relationship, when we had been together for like a year or so, and I still really liked him, but I also... kind of had a crush on the person I was doing a play with and we ended up kissing in the play like we weren't supposed to but we did like on closing night and he got really mad about it but I just like wanted to kiss him and so I did.
And I wonder if I had been in a polyamorous relationship and that was totally cool, what would my life have been like? Because clearly you still have a lot of ingrained... societal norms about monogamy and about the way that relationships should be, quote unquote. But if you start out with this being what you know, in terms of your experience. Like, wow, you'd be just an expert, you know, by the time you reach our age. Maybe. Okay, maybe. Maybe.
I don't know, starting early with monogamy doesn't make you an expert at monogamy. That's true. That's true. Okay, but I do think there is something to be said. I think the point you're trying to make being that, yeah, like maybe you develop certain skills sooner.
You know, maybe you unlearn things a little faster, learn new things a little bit faster. I have a very similar what if when I think about my younger years, because, yeah, my very first relationship, probably like two or three months in. I also developed a crush on somebody else. And he also had a crush on me. And then he kissed me in a movie theater. And then I was like, oh no.
Like, I have feelings for both these people. I have literally no models for what to do in this situation. I must be horrible and wrong because I thought that I... you know, was into my boyfriend that I thought that I was with, but now there's this other person. And like, yeah, it was very, very confusing. And I think that if it had been presented to me as an option, I probably would have tried to pursue it. Would I have pursued it well? I don't know, but I would have taken that bait.
You would have had the opportunity to. It's a trap. Yes. But I love that. I love that for both of us. Just this ideal, like, what if we had that opportunity. So I want to come back to this advice from the friends that you should try being in a, quote, normal monogamous relationship first. I think that...
I'm just going to come down on a side here. I'm not even going to play our little middle ground and I'm just going to say I disagree. I don't think that there is any inherent value in doing monogamy first. In fact, I might even say the opposite, that I think that if you're going to do monogamy, you should try not doing it first. In my sort of ideal world, I feel like monogamy is the, in a way, like stricter.
more intense choice. And so that's the one you should really go into with your eyes open versus non-monogamy. Now, all that said, I do think that...
What like the heart of what they might be getting at is I'm assuming they're coming from a place of not really understanding anything about polyamory. And to them, that seems difficult. It seems hard. It seems scary. And so what I. feel like they might be getting at is this sense of if it's your first relationship, you don't have a lot of other examples of what feels good, what's bad, what's being treated well, what's not being treated well.
And that's not to say that being in relationships always gives you the best examples of that, but at least it gives you a variety of things in your life to compare it to. And I think that's one of the reasons why... Very often people's first relationships can be very intense and emotional because everything is the most whatever.
that you've ever experienced right where it's like oh this is the most in love i've ever been this is the most these these two overlapping relationships also took place like when the first Lord of the Rings movies was dropping in theaters and it was like such an intense time.
Because that was the film we were watching was when I went to see it for the third time was when this other guy kissed me in the movie theater. You saw Fellowship? Frodo and Sam were heading off into Mordor. And that's erotic too. I know. Seriously. Real, real love is in the air moments for sure. Oh my gosh. But to be serious though, I mean, it's like everything is the most intense relationship you've ever experienced because it literally is because there's no other.
frame of reference right this this is the first one and now that i think is not entirely true because as we've talked about on this show relationships are relationships and that we don't need to put relationships that are romantic and sexual in this like totally isolated bubble where they're somehow different inherently from everything else but that said they still are very intense relationships often and so
I think that a concern about, like if I were your friend and I didn't know much about non-monogamy and I said this, it'd probably be coming from a place of... I don't want you to be treated badly or to be taken advantage of because you don't know how this is supposed to go. So you're just going to take whatever they say.
for granted and i'm also coming from the place of assuming that your your friends also are you know not familiar with polyamory or non-monogamy and so in their mind it's like oh is it because this person wants to
cheat? Is it just that they don't want to commit to you? Like coming in with some of those fears makes sense. Maybe I'm projecting stuff onto your friends that isn't true, but at least that's kind of what's coming up for me is it's coming from a place of, I just don't want you to be treated badly and not know it.
because you don't have a frame of reference. And I don't think a monogamous relationship is going to fix that necessarily. I mean, the same thing could happen in a monogamous relationship because they're still learning. I mean, I think that... This person's saying, I think this is a great learning experience. I'm like, yeah, either way, whether it's wonderful or full of heartbreak, it will be a learning experience. For sure. And I will say...
I'm making an assumption here, but I'm assuming y'all are young people and young people aren't always... Maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe not. But if you are, I know for myself, I wasn't very good at relationships as a young person. I'd argue I'm still learning to be good at relationships now.
But as a young person, I mean, yeah, all you really know is the models that you've grown up with. You know your parents, perhaps, you know, like your friend's parents and you know your... models in terms of the movies that you've watched and the media that you've consumed and that's about it and so when you're trying to do a relationship yourself you're trying to take little bits of all of those models
And that can leave you with a lot of bullshit, unfortunately. And some of it's not always going to be great. And you try to like wade through that. And, you know, quite frankly, even if you're... partner is non-monogamous or polyamorous, they may not have great models either, and they may not necessarily be doing it in the most ethical way either. Maybe they're freaking rock stars at it at like 18. I don't know.
Good for them. But just know that there's always a lot to learn. And so do your own learning on the side without necessarily like just going to your partner. to figure out how to best be in this type of relationship. If you can, read the books, listen to the podcasts, try to do what you can of your own work.
as opposed to making somebody else do that work for you. Well, so you can come in with some of your own opinions and your own ideas and see how they go. And it might be like, actually, that's not what I wanted. But coming in, yeah, where you... are an equal co-creator of the way your relationship goes, I think is really important no matter what type of relationship you're in. I think it's fascinating. I'm really eager to see any data.
Either official data that comes out of studies and surveys or just anecdotal data that comes out of younger generations. maturing into adulthood in a world where maybe there's a little bit more discourse around non-monogamy or maybe more people are exposed to it earlier as a possible option. I don't know, to see how that turns out.
Right. Like I'm hopeful and optimistic and like positive about that, but I'm sure it's going to come with its own set of challenges. But yeah, I'm I do believe that children are our future. Yes. And they will lead the way. Yes. I'm right there with you, Dedegar, because I was just sitting here thinking we may, you know, this Generation Alpha or whatever is, you know, after them. Uh-huh.
They may truly be the first generation where they feel like they have a choice in what type of relationships they're going to be entering into. And how freaking awesome is that? Like, that's so cool. And that's something that the three of us didn't get. And had we, I really wonder what we would have chosen. And I wonder, like, where we would be now. And it's really cool to know that the kids of today maybe are going to become the leaders of tomorrow with this knowledge.
in them so deep i love it no i love it too i'm excited for them I feel like I do want to share that we've got a little bit of an inside joke, Dedeker and I, about that song. I believe the children are our future. I'm not surprised. Where Dedeker's like... It's not a belief. It's the literal truth. Like you don't, there's no stretch to believe that. It's just, yeah, it's not like, oh, I happen to believe. It's like, no, that's just a fact. That is, that is it.
Fine. Fine. No, so I always just try to really convey that it's a belief of mine. I have this deeply held belief. I know not everyone agrees, but I believe the children are our future. Well, I believe that wombats are our future and that square poop is our future. Definitely. We should get working on that. We should. Worry, wombat. I hope we didn't infantilize you too much. Right.
Goodness. We fully respect you whether you're a baby wombat, an adolescent wombat, a young adult wombat, an adult wombat, or an aged. Sagely Wombat, either way. Sagely Wombat is another good sign-off. That's a good one. That's a good Discord handle, Sagely Wombat. Yeah, hold on. Let me go change mine real quick.
But yeah, seriously, thank you. This is an awesome question. And I honestly wish, it seems like all of us wish we could go back and give that a try and have our first relationship be polyamorous and see how we would be different that way. So I would... I would just say your friends are worried about you and want to be sure you don't get hurt. But I don't think their advice of being in a monogamous relationship first is going to fix that. Sometimes you just got to take the plunge.
jace were you like totally monogamous in your first relationship i'm like what even counts as the first i just don't even know i feel like people have been falling all over you since you were like very young interesting it's an interesting perception with me that's my perception of you yes it's funny because he doesn't think that i feel like i've shared some stories stories that i'm not going to repeat on this podcast of like
Those glasses were really becoming, by the way. Your desirability. I had very big, very thick glasses. But anyway, yeah, thinking back, I do feel like I became... more fervently monogamous as i got older and was kind of more indoctrinated into that's what you should want i think there was always that assumption when i was younger but i think it was especially
during high school when I kind of went, went harder back into the Christianity stuff that that's where that really, I don't know, calcified or whatever of like really these, these kind of. ideas what actual love looks like or how that should show up things like that yeah i don't know i think just as a kid i was very like i felt things very intensely and so that made it
So I would instead just do the serial monogamy thing of just kind of like going through different three to six month long relationships. But it's like, oh, so intense. And then it ends because, I don't know, start feeling intense about somebody else or.
Because you feel less intense and whatever it is. Yeah, I think a lot of that was at play in my younger years. And now it's time to go on to our next question. But first, we're going to take a quick break to share with you some sponsors for this show. Really take a moment.
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How do you handle your partner being in a honeymoon phase with someone else? I'm not really new to polyamory, but I've never experienced a partner falling for someone new while we're together. I'm nervous about the honeymoon phase or NRE destabilizing me. I think that seeing my partner so amorous and horny for someone else and not getting that same degree of attention will be one of my biggest polyam challenges. And that is sent in by Hesitant Honey.
Hesitant honey. Yeah, that is a tough one. Sometimes I know for myself, I definitely feel a lot more stable. in relationships where I've already experienced a partner going through NRE with someone else and like we got through it and they're still there, right? And then the relationship has settled versus any time I've been dating someone where I haven't had that experience with them.
Because then it is this like, well, what's going to happen? You know, I know that for a lot of people and for myself included, there's this catastrophizing part of the brain that can treat it like your loved one is a werewolf.
and you're not sure when the next full moon is going to be, but when it happens, you don't know what's going to happen, right? They're not going to be themselves. They're going to be unrecognizable, and it's going to be horrible, and maybe they're going to rip your face off. Yeah. I mean, something worth noting there that you were talking about is the first time experiencing that with a particular partner. So that even if you had experienced this before with someone else.
that doesn't necessarily mean that this partner is going to react in the same way. So it's kind of like, even if you had experienced this before, if it weren't with this partner, you would still need to go through this kind of first time of seeing what they're like in this circumstance. Seeing how they handle that, how does your communication get affected by it? I guess what I'm trying to say is that a little bit of, I'll call it anticipation instead of nervousness.
I have just this sort of like, okay, I want to find out. I'm a little nervous, but just I want to see what this is like. I want to understand how we can get through this. I guess just to understand that that's going to be unique to this relationship too, to this particular person. you get to be part of developing what that communication looks like and seeing how that goes. But it is often a big challenge.
As a person who is currently sort of going through this with my partner, but from the other end, I'm the one who's entering into a new partnership. Having a lot of feelings of NRE, but also wanting to kind of be very present with my established partner at the same time. give him reassurance because I know that it's very challenging. It's not only like a new relationship for me, but a new non-monogamous paradigm for him. And so that's a lot of things at once.
And I would say some of the advice that I've been giving him is to really lean into the internal things that give you joy, that allow you to emotionally regulate, that... make you feel happy and secure that are not just external factors in another person. And I know that that can be really challenging because we're focusing kind of on the other person here in this moment. If you can first find some equilibrium within.
in whatever way that is for you. If that's like, I'm going to go volunteer, or I'm going to go work out, or I'm going to go take a yoga class or take a Spanish speaking class or whatever it is to try to make myself feel regulated without it needing to come from like the other person's validation and then once you've gotten to that point
I think if you are able to come to the relationship and come to the person and say like, hey, I'm having a moment of challenge right now. Like, this is a tangible thing that I need in this moment or that I would like in this moment. Maybe just for some cuddles or for some intimate energy, some sex or something tangible as opposed to kind of amorphous would be great.
And then also knowing that some of the work is going to have to be done on your end. It can't just completely come from the other person. I really like to recommend Martha Kaupi's tool that's in her book. So people can go check out our interview with her that we did. We've done a couple of interviews with her, but I'm specifically referencing episode 340.
Polyamory and Therapy with Martha Cowpey. She's a therapist and her book is full of fantastic tools for both therapists who work with non-monogamous people and non-monogamous people themselves. But she has this tool literally called How I Plan to Handle NRE. I think it's a great tool for this situation where it sounds like the question asker.
Their partner isn't in NRE currently. It's just kind of the specter of their partner being in NRE. That sounds scary. And basically, Martha Kaupi's tool is kind of a series of questions to help you create. essentially like your own guidelines for how you're going to handle NRE. And it includes things like what are the relationships, like not just the partners, but like the friendships and the family members that are important in your life that you want to stay in touch with.
How do you plan on still maintaining those relationships? Like, what are the values that you hold? How do you want your partner to feel about your relationship? How do you want your partner to feel about the fact that your relationship is polyamorous, right? So, like, I think it...
could be maybe a good exercise for both you and your partner to do individually and then come together and kind of talk about what came out of that. Because I think it is good to at least have a conversation where you can acknowledge both this is an anxiety and... This is a known phenomenon that people get into NRE and their judgment is clouded. They make weird decisions.
And that all falls on a spectrum from just like giving a little bit more attention to another partner all the way up to completely blowing up their life for the sake of the partner that they're an NRE with. Right. I think it can be helpful just to have that on the table, right? And just because you make a plan or your partner makes a plan, it doesn't mean that nothing will be uncomfortable or nothing will be challenging, but at least you've acknowledged it and we're not just...
It's not you just sitting there hoping that your partner will be good enough to you when they get an NRE, right? Yeah, it takes some agency. Yeah, yeah. And the other piece of this is I find it's really helpful for me. If I've had my own experiences of being an NRE with someone while also having an established relationship where I'm not an NRE, because it gives me a touch point to knowing.
OK, yeah, even when I had that chemical cocktail firing in my brain and like the amorousness and the horniness and like the excitement about this relationship, I know that I still loved. my existing partner or partners, right? And I was still invested in the relationship. And for me, it's helpful to just have the reminder of like, oh, I felt that way and it was okay. And my partner can feel that way too. And it can be okay.
Again, provided I'm feeling like my partner's still like, you know, showing up in the relationship. As you've been talking, I've been thinking about this and trying to think through my own times of handling a partner being an NRE. I feel like I want to kind of go in a totally different direction with some advice for this. And that's that when I think about the times where I've been the most settled and the most calm and the least bothered by...
NRE that a partner would be feeling is, is it a time when I have something else other than relationships or sex on my mind that are fulfilling? And that could just be... I've been really craving time alone. And so I'm excited. I get to be excited too. Like, cool, you've got an exciting thing to do. I get time to do a project or play a game or have a game night with my friends or something else.
rather than it being about, oh, I'm dating and you're dating, and we're both experiencing NRE, which I've also been in that situation. And sometimes it can be more challenging, because one of the challenges in NRE... is that you've got all of these chemicals flooding your brain when you're with that person, and then you're kind of having withdrawal when you're not with that person.
And so it can then make it harder if you're not always on your dates with these other people at the same time, which is unlikely to happen, that then you're kind of like in an extra down.
phase while they're experiencing their NRE and that can lead to some mixed feelings because both of you are a little bit on a roller coaster of your feelings and so I might just throw it out there of if there's anything you can find for yourself where you're like stoked about having some of your own time about being able to take some of your energy that you normally would put toward this relationship.
And put it into something else during those times and kind of get some benefit out of that yourself. That's not just about trying to be equal or trying to do the same thing that they're doing. I found that for me, that's when I've been the most. at ease and calm and settled. In fact, I would say to the point where I think in Dedeker's last couple people that she's dated,
I felt a little bit like a little sad that I don't feel like she's experienced as much NRE in those relationships. I think one, because it was someone you'd known a long time. So it wasn't quite the same. Like, oh, wow, we just we just met each other. We're just connecting. And with the other one, I feel like you've kind of held yourself back a little bit.
And I think that can just happen depending on the relationship, too, or sometimes that NRE is stronger than others. Or maybe I'm just like really, really good at making you feel secure, like so secure you didn't even know I was an NRE. Damn, look at that shit. Damn. No, but... i mean i do think that that's part of it that i just want to touch on that slightly because
Because I feel like I'm trying to do that in this moment as well. Like, there's a lot of internal NRE happening, but for myself also, in order to, as Dedeker says...
keep your head in the clouds, put your feet on the ground, you have to temper that emotion to a degree. You have to be able to be like, no, I'm not going to let this get the best of me. I understand what it is, that it's just a lot of... chemicals and chemistry happening in my body and that at the end of the day is all that it is and it feels great and it's awesome but it also is just that and I can't let it get the best of me.
And I think that that knowledge will help a partner. And I do want to say like this person is talking about something that hasn't happened yet. And so be honest with your partner about that fear. And come up with a solution together if you can and come up with a way in which to figure out like, hey.
I'm worried about this. What can we do on a weekly basis, for instance, to help us come back together and feel secure within this relationship and come up with a plan, like Dedeker said? I think that's a great way to just sort of... headed off a little bit, head off the fear and make it work for you instead. And that you're approaching it as a team.
That it isn't just, oh, I've got to find some way to deal with this regardless of how my partner behaves. But that it's like, yeah, both of you need to show up and do your best that you can. All right, we have one more question to get to, but we're going to take another quick break to talk about some sponsors for this show. Again, take a moment, just give them a listen. We try to make the ads interesting for you. Tell some fun anecdotes in them.
And use our promo codes if you find them interesting, because that does directly help support our show. And of course... If you want access to ad-free episodes, early releases, and our amazing Discord community, go to multiamory.com slash join to sponsor us directly. Okay, question number three. Is it possible to limit the expansion of our feelings for others? Okay, big one here. My partner and I opened up last year our previously monogamous relationship of seven years.
we decided to go very slow and explore how far we want to take it. So we basically agreed on romantic exclusivity, allowing for a couple of dates a month with people outside of our area. and to compromise on stepping back if our feelings kept on growing. So far, it's been great. But it's also been easy because the people we've met live very far and other circumstances.
I've been questioning if it's realistic to think that it is possible to set boundaries on one's feelings, or even fair for the third person. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. especially from Emily as she has practiced various types of non-monogamous relationships from what I've gathered. Thank you so much. And this is from Baby Polly in Barcelona.
Why does Emily get credit for the non-monogamy CV? I don't know. I mean, look at me go. She's getting back into it. That's why. She's like a new card-carrying member again. She's a new woman. And also Barcelona. This is somebody from my land. So here we are. That's a fascinating question. I love it because I think that... Often, and I know that I've done this, in order to try to make a partner feel better about a situation, you may say to them like, hey.
you know, this relationship or a relationship that I'm going to get into is just going to be like a tertiary relationship or it's just going to be kind of friends with benefits thing or something. And it's really hard.
when you really connect with someone to realize, fuck, I want this person to be in my life in a really meaningful way. And then having to go back to a partner and say that to them can be extremely challenging because that's not... what you first relayed to them so ideally if you get into scenarios like this i think it's good to expect the unexpected expect that you're going to Not necessarily know how intense you're going to feel for a person.
I mean, sure, there are ways to limit it. You can limit your time with a person. You can limit the type of conversation you have with them. You can limit the amount of times that they spend the night. You can limit the fact that they maybe won't spend the night ever or that you'll only have sex with them with a partner present. There are limits that you can put on the relationship, of course. But if it is a free, open, communicative thing...
I think the sky is the limit. Yeah, I think the short answer to this is no, it's not really possible to limit where our feelings go. And often when we try to, it backfires. But I think of it like creating a garden. Okay. We're just like all about the metaphors today. We are. Yeah, I love it. Where, sure, can you create a garden where it is very difficult for a very particular type of plant to grow?
Yes, you can. And I think that's what Emily was speaking to with like, sure, you can limit your communication with somebody. You can limit how often you see them. You can limit how vulnerable. You get with them. You can limit whether or not you even have sex or what types of sexual contact you have. You can choose to date people that you don't actually like that much or you're not actually that attracted to. Like you can create.
An environment that maybe is more hostile towards feelings growing or intensifying, sure. But plants evolve to grow and people also evolve to bond with each other and connect with each other. And so there is just like a lot of force behind that. So I think it's the kind of thing where, like, I never want anyone to feel like you're just completely at the whim of Cupid's arrow.
And, you know, if you fall madly in love with someone, there's absolutely no way that you can control that. There's a seed of truth in that. But like, sure, yeah, you could be making choices that maybe make it harder for feelings to develop, but not impossible. I'm thinking a lot about the swinging community and the decades of community that's been built up around the idea of swinging, which a lot of what you're describing here fits that, right? It's often these...
particular limitations on the other partnerships. They're more like these little flings. There's certain limitations on developing feelings, stuff like that. And limitations on exchanging contact information. Right. There's various ways people come up with for kind of how to put those limits on those things. And I think that normally within the more polyamorous sphere.
that's looked down upon right that scene is like oh you're you're being bad to these other people that are involved and you're you're going to develop feelings and it's going to be bad and i think that that's just kind of a reactionary way of looking at it and There are people who've been part of the swinger community for a very long time and have had a lot of happiness with it and a lot of success with it. So I just want to first come in and say, like, I don't think that...
necessarily approaching something like this is bad or unethical. However, there are a lot of pitfalls to watch out for, kind of like what we've been talking about, where feelings do develop. And what I've found is that Of swingers that I've talked to, especially ones who've been doing it for a while with the same partner, like both of them are fairly experienced with it. Generally, a theme I've noticed is that somewhat...
Early on within the first few years of that, they kind of do away with the, we can't develop emotional connections with these people. And instead they accept.
there is going to be a certain amount of, yeah, these people become our friends. We become close with them. There is a important emotional, personal connection with these people. And that to try to limit that, just... kind of makes things shitty for everyone and then it's like throwing away the relationships that are the best ones and only keeping the not so great ones it just like i've seen a lot of swingers
move away from that and a little more into what poly people would look at and go ah that's more like what we're talking about but they may still mostly play together or they may still have certain aspects where it's like, no, we want to communicate clearly. Like I'm not looking for another relationship similar to my primary one. I want something that is a little more.
flirty friends with benefits type relationship, but that that can still be a relationship since every relationship we have is a relationship, right? Whether it's one that we call romantic and call a relationship or not. So I guess just something I would throw out there is one, like look into some of the resources from people that are knowledgeable in that community as well, where I think those sorts of.
restrictions are both more normal, but also I feel like a lot of swingers now are talking about how they don't need to be as strict as once was preached. And then also to just realize like feelings will happen. And so... doing that in a way that's ethical to the other people involved is important. And what I mean by that is, I will say I don't think it's necessarily bad if you go into a relationship with someone saying, hey,
My availability to you is limited. This is the amount of time, and I'm not interested in changing that. This is the amount of time I have to offer you. This is the type of relationship I want. And that they have their own agency to then accept that or not.
Right. And it might not always go great. They might not always love it. You know, there's, there's always going to be disappointment and hurt in relationships, but I don't think there's anything inherently like, oh, you're doing a wrong, bad, evil thing by doing that. As long as you're clear about it and they.
in their own full agency say yeah i want to do that with you because i've been on that receiving end of things and it's been great sometimes and then sometimes it's like no that's really not what i wanted and that doesn't always work out but that's okay because not all relationships work out
But I guess what I'm trying to throw out there is that while that's true, like understand that feelings are going to happen in some way or another, especially if you're dating good people because you want to be friends with good people. You want to be around good people.
that you connect with. And so like, that's gonna happen. So I might revisit that specific part about the developing feelings, even if you want to keep some of the limitations about amount of time or where they live or things like that. Yeah, I just want to throw out there like things change and they really can be altered from your initial idea of what the relationship is going to look like. And you can have all these intentions of, yeah.
this is what I expect for the relationship and tell the person that and tell your existing partner that and all of those things and things can still change. We have to be flexible in these configurations. It's not going to be 100% the same all the time because we're people and we change all the time. And our emotions are fickle and ever-changing and ever-moving. And I think there has to be a part of you that's going to be aware of that and going to be okay with that. And just know like...
As difficult as that is, and as much as you want to keep people safe and yourself safe, I mean, God, I want to keep myself safe through all this, too. But I know that, like, I don't know, and that has to be okay, too. And you just kind of go along for the ride and move it in the manner that you can as much as you can. And also know that, like, at the end of the day, it's going to be okay. You just have to do it with as much integrity as possible and be true to yourself.
Well, thank you, baby Polly in Barcelona. I appreciated that all these questions sort of had a theme of people, you know, maybe somewhat new to this or exploring some of these topics like... There's a lot of fundamental stuff and like fundamental challenges that we have to take on when we're deciding to love a little bit differently. So thank you to everybody who submitted your questions for this episode.
And our question of the week, which is going to be on our Instagram stories, is going to be, do you think that you can limit your feelings for another person to serve an existing relationship? Why or why not? Let us know. Really interested to see what people have to say about this one. And the best place to share your thoughts with other listeners is in the episode discussion channel in our Discord server, or you can post in our private Facebook group.
You can get access to these groups and join our exclusive community by going to multiamory.com slash join. In addition, you can share with us publicly on Instagram at multiamory underscore podcast. Multiamory is created and produced by Jason Lindgren, Dedeker Winston, and me, Emily Matlack. Our production assistants are Rachel Schennewark and Carson Collins. Our theme song is Forms I Know I Did by Josh and Anand from the Fractal Cave EP.
The full transcript is available on this episode's page on multiamory.com.