Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm one of your celebrity mentors, Cheryl Burke, and today I'm joined by a powerhouse of women for a conversation on a topic I know we all have a lot to say about, so please help me. Welcome fellow celebrity mentors. Kelly ben Simone, Alexia Napola, Hi.
Ladies, him Cheryl, Hi Kelly.
It's been so long, Alexia especially.
Yes, last time I saw you you were dancing with one of my friends, William Levy. We went out to LA and you guys obviously were my favorite couple and you should have taken the trophy.
Right yeah, I think. I mean, people were drooling over that guy. But how are you doing?
And over you two, by the way, because you're an amazing dancer. You've always been favorite dancer, by the way, amazing.
Thanks so much. Where are you, Kelly?
I'm doing better, so much better.
You know, you and I have kind of been through a lot together and I'm just feeling like, emotionally so much stronger. But you know, with any kind of like you know, unraveling of anything, it's it's twofold. It's emotional and transactional and so there was just a lot of money things I had to take care of which I was not happy with, which actually made me more angry than just not being together.
Right right, I hear you. I mean this is just the rollercoaster of emotions. I'm sure.
Just wasting money is just not my thing.
It's a lesson learned, never a waste.
Twenty twenty five is going to be such a good year.
Though, It's going to be amazing.
Are you talking about the relationship you're in with your fiance?
Yes, I am done.
Okay, this summer.
So Cheryl has been so great.
We started doing this podcast together the very beginning, and Cheryl taught me a lot about how to navigate but also how to treat myself.
And you know, we're just we've.
Been through similar situations. I'm so excited.
I feel like a lot of us women have been through situations like that.
Yeah, it's just not talked about as much.
Right, And I think it's so much better, at least for me. You know, I think talking about it, especially to somebody like Cheryl that's gone through it, or other of our friends or women that I've gone through it, it's that it's so much more relatable and they get it. You know, sometimes your friends that haven't been in these situations don't get it, and it's you know, and it's
really hard. So it's great that you've had Cheryl. And I don't know if you have any any other friends, but I know for me, my friends me, everything new for use just been you. Well I'm just kidding.
I'm kidding.
Oh no, because you know what, Kelly's only friend, that's it.
You know, Well, I'm sure you give her good advice. By the way, I was also reading. I started following you, Cheryl, and I started reading like your interviews and your podcasts and listening to them, and I'm loving them. I'm joining them, and I'm also learning a lot through because I'm also going through my own journey. But yeah, so it's great to have you now also, you know, as as my friend and as my place and tell you took.
I just need to follow my own advice. That's the hard part.
Well, that's what happens to me, Cheryl. I give great advice and then I'll apply it to myself. All my friends come to me for advice and they're like, what about you.
I always told Cheryl that she's the adult in the room and she's teaching me and mentoring.
Only you knew what I did. Though, when you weren't with me, I'd be like, wait a second, are you been to a hypocrite or don't? Okay, do as I do exactly exactly? That is that true?
Saying that is true?
That's my therapist. I'm like, how messed up is your life? My therapist for the last fifteen years? Let's talk about you? Okay.
Well, my mom was a great psychiatrist and she gave great like couple's therapy, and she had been to words five times, so I was like, my mom, Like, she divorced five times. I'm like, how can you? And she would make everyone stay together and she was so good at it, and yet in her life she was a mess.
Let's see if Dennis Dennis Petrano, if he has also gone through many divorces. I'm hoping he has, because then he'll really be able to relate.
Well, I feel like we've only gone through one, right, us three, I've only got to one?
Yeah, only one for now?
Well, me me the same because my second one, my husband, we never filed for divorce and he unfortunately passed away. So I was technically a widow.
That's the one I met, I met, that's the one you met her. I'm so sorry.
Yeah, because he was a great man and so technically, you know, we never filed for divorce or anything. We're great friends, work together, and unfortunately, you know that happens. And my third husband now, which is Todd, I'm still married to him and I'm still trying to stay married. Let's see what the well, let's see what no. I mean, we're both trying to, you know, to make it.
Takes work, it works right, like it's it's always a work in progress, like it's never too comfortable, you know it is.
And I just think it's easier. I just think it's easier. And I think a lot of people that's why they're creating like so quickly, because it's just easier to walk away. It takes so much work on both sides and so much effort that, you know, sometimes I think people just don't want to try so hard anymore.
Well, or it could be that like the one person wants to work, but then you can't force the other person to do the work either. And when that's the situation, there's nothing you can do other than put yourself first and walk away.
You know, yeah, that won't work. You definitely both.
You've had two relationships.
I only had one one like big relationship, one marriage.
And I it's.
Interesting because you know, I was like, well, howcome your you're single?
Like basically like to what's wrong with you? I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not single.
I'm just I'm just because I'm not in a relationship doesn't mean I had a single mindset, right, I'm looking.
For the right person, not any person.
That is true. But are you okay with like being alone? I think that that's mine. Oh yeah, yeah, well I think now you are right because you went through your journey.
But my freak, I love it. I love it too much. My therapist is worried about.
Me really because I know that's scary too. You so you have a lot of friends like you share all that I've been divorced, and they're so good being alone that they really and you know, they're also celibate like you by choice because they're just not going to they just don't want another relationship.
Weird.
But I'm kind of scared of that to sharel I'm not gonna lie because I feel like I'm just like I know there's a difference between being alone and being lonely. I would never be lonely because my life is very complete and I have so much going on in my life and I love my life, so I don't see it that way. But I've always seen myself like with someone, like my happiness doesn't depend on the person, but part of my happiness, like in my vision board, is being with someone and sharing my life.
I hear you, but you know there's going to be ebbs and flows, like with anything with money, with relationships, and I believe that it's never nothing's forever except you are you forever, like you're stuck with you for the rest of your life. You better like yourself. And I think when it comes to I want to find someone that makes me happy or those types of like statements are really it's I would I hope one day that And though I'm just saying this, it doesn't mean I'm
doing it, but like or practicing it. But the happiness does you complete you right like And I think until that really happens, then you start to attract the people that are healthy, that are aren't looking for toxic relationships, that are looking for no one to complete them because they've already completed themselves. Like there's nobody's going to fill that void for you.
I totally agree with that.
Yeah, I think that, like, you know, for me, like it's not that I you know, I've been lonely. I've just been alone, but I've also been raising two kids on my own, and so so now like even my you know, my youngest is still living with me, and you know, I I'm definitely looking to be with someone's special, definitely, and I've always been open to that. But you know, when you're a full time single parent, you don't think, you know, you're not like, Okay, I'll.
Just you know, dump my kids for some guy. It's not going to happen.
No, hopefully not.
I would never do that. No not you well, no, you haven't done it. So I don't think at this point in your life, you know, whoever comes to your life knows that your children are a priority and they're you know, you're a package, you know, And that's what men that date women with kids have to understand. And that can also be a problem in relationships.
You know.
I feel like women that come into relationships with no kids because they don't want then it could work again, it really depends on the person that you're dating, you know. Yeah, so it's very relative.
Should we bring in our guests, you guys, this is going to be exciting. He's a talker and I can't wait to have him on. So yeah, I know exactly how long you got folks. Okay, so today we're going to dive deep into the topic of divorce and ask all the questions that we wished we'd ask when we were going through it, or things you should be considering the second time around. Our guest today is a divorce attorney mediator and has the best TikTok feed full of
helpful information. This is very true. Please welcome Dennis the Toronto to the podcast. Welcome, Hi, how are you meet all of us? Have you heard I do Part two? Yes?
Well recently, yes, I've been. I've been kind of binging on it a little bit. So yeah, yeah for sure.
So I guess tell us about yourself first and then we'll just We've got tons of questions for you.
Okay. Ooh, I'm frightened now should I should I be intimidated? Fine? I will, I'm fine. I'm used to asking the questions,
but ill but I'll answer them too. So twenty five years practicing attorney, I've been doing predominantly divorced and family li litigation throughout that time frame, and probably say maybe about the past five years, just trying to take what I've learned from being a divorce and family low litigation attorney for twenty five years and try to like and all the stories I've heard and all the horror stories, and try to like rewind and say, like, how do
we look at the mistakes that are made in marriages and relationships that lead you to those divorces and those contentious you know, drawn out, knock down, drag out divorces, and rewind like what could we have done to avoid that from the start? Like what are the signs that we saw or maybe didn't see, should have seen that we could have fixed along the way to not end up in my office?
So right, right, But then also it's good for you to fand up in your office, right exactly?
I mean, look it is, but I think you know, Look I tell people people always say, you know, I do so much on TikTok and Instagram and stuff like that, And I've been doing videos for a long time about divorces. You know, a lot of the knocks and a lot of the guys especially, will say, oh, this guy just wants to get your money. It's like no, It's like, you.
Know, what, do you represent men more or women? Your clientele is the more ladies or men.
I find that it's been about fifty to fifty for the longest time, but probably over the past handful of years, I've probably been representing more women than men, you know. And I find for me it's it dovetails more nicely with the way I approach these cases, and really what I believe in in that, like you know my experiences, women tend to be more introspective, They tend to be more open to counseling, They tend to be more open
to listen to you. And I think that you know, as a professional in this space and wanting to help people you know, have a healthy, successful life, it just it just works better that sort of relationship.
Are you divorced?
No?
Are you married?
I am married? Okay, I am married to kids.
How long have you been married.
We've been married since two thousand and seven September one, two thousand and seven.
So okay.
How good is my math?
Here.
Uh so roughly about fourteen years.
Now, do you rep yourself if anything were to happen, or do you have colleagues that you would Oh?
Do you not?
Even would not use a divorce attorney? Maybe?
Now this is funny because I don't even have a prenup.
You know, this goes back, girls to what we were saying, like we could preach all we want.
When we first met. I didn't need a prenup. She did. So let's put at that very accomplished woman.
My wife. Yeah, so did you sign one?
No, no, we don't. We don't have a prenup.
Because it's their first marriage, right.
Right, right, right, right, we're beginners.
Well, I mean I had a prenup from the beginning.
Yeah.
I think it's funny because clients and even just really anybody, I think it's a good idea to have a prenup, and people are surprised about the reasons why I think you should have a prenup.
I think, why do you like prenups?
I think you should have a prep not for the conventional reasons why people typically do prenups. I think you should have a prenup because you have more disclosure, you have more open honesty. You're having tougher conversations before the marriage starts that many people are just not ready for. You know, people don't want to talk about, hey, what happens if we get divorced. People don't want to talk about how much debt do you have? Like where do you make? Where do you make your money?
Don't you think that that affects the couple as far as where the relationship is going to go. You know, like you said, there's a lot of disclosure, there's you know, there's honesty. You have to be transparent. It's uncomfortable. I'm being honest. I mean it's uncomfortable than the main things that like your you know, like oh you just like want my money?
And you know what else is uncomfortable childbirth, which I've never experienced, but like that is also I'm assuming super uncomfortable. So it's like we have to have these conversations regardless. Better to do it before you say, I do.
I think, Well, I feel like some couples today. I mean maybe I'm wrong, but baby, I think that people aren't getting married and couples like I have friends of mine, I'm gonna be honest, and they've been engaged and they are avoiding marriage because they don't want to sit down and work on a pre up.
Well that's their problem.
So I didn't have a preenup for my first marriage.
I did not have a prenup.
And you know, I don't feel like I don't, you know, I don't. I don't.
I didn't feel like I needed one because I was so young. But you know, if my when my daughters, you know, find you know, the love of their life, I'm definitely definitely going to make them get prenups.
But I did not. I did not have that. We're not because I was, you know, twenty six years old.
But you know, it's just a totally different world now than it was.
Then, Well tell them your story, your story.
I mean, I think that that's the dentists made that really good point that a prenup is kind of like what would happen if you get divorced, and so it's it's basically the same kind of it's a.
Contract, and so it's it's basically the same to kind of document you can speak to that. Why don't you tell us the difference?
Yeah, But I mean, here's the thing. I mean, I think I think, look, you know prenups. I'll get into what prenup is and and why it's important from a legal standpoint, but I think prenups I think are important because you need to choose. Look, successful marriages, in my opinion, start off with choosing well. The finances are necessarily part of it. How do you make your money? How do you spend your money? Are you you are? When you marry someone, you are extending this level of trust to
this individual. That Jesus if they can't talk to you about what their debts are or how they make their money, or or like you know, how many bills do they have or what their credit score is? I mean, listen, you're like trusting your soul, your heart with this person and they can't trust you to tell you what they make or like you know these things. There needs to be full disclosure. There needs to be because again, like I said,
successful long lasting marriages start with choosing well. And I think the prenup is a tool.
And open communication right right, that's it.
Yes, Yes, open communication from the get go on the things that are most you're right.
And vulnerable and transparency and all of it. Like, but don't you think before marrying somebody that these conversations, like it's common sense because if let's say you don't do it, your life is going to be a living. This person's going to be in your life no matter if whatever happened happened, like for the rest of your life, and that is forever, you know, like that, it's just a nightmare situation. Yeah, especially I can't speak to that, but ye, yes.
So Dennis, are you more likely or less likely to get divorced throughout the second time around if your marriage and if your first marriage ended in divorce?
Well, I think Look, we know second marriages fail to the tune of about seventy something percent. You know, the first marriages are roughly about fifty percent.
What about the third marriage?
Well, right, marriage, I don't I don't remember, right. I think it's going up. I think part of the reason is we're we're worried about the wrong things when our relationship fails. We're worried about the stigma associated with it. We're worried about the shame. We're worried about protecting our kids, We're worried about what our friends are saying about us, when really what we need to be worrying about is ourselves.
And getting to getting reacquainted with ourselves, taking the time to do that, taking the time to date, and no, you know know what you're looking for. I think we yes, right right away.
Cheryl doesn't agree with that, Dennis.
Isn't it also that when you get divorced after the first time and then you get married again, it's probably easier to get divorced the second time because you already know what's at stake.
We can just copy the prenup like we could just make another copy and just change the name.
That's a good point.
That's not good, that's I mean, Listen, I believe in, you know, I believe in divorce. I believe in you know, if things aren't working out. I definitely believe in making better choices for yourself and for your family one hundred percent. But I do also think that once you've done it, you're gonna do it again.
You know, Are you going to mean nothing's forever?
No?
I don't, Cheryl.
Maybe, I mean I think, look, I was always a proponent. Now this is a divorce lawyer who was always a proponent, who said, Hey, you gotta wait, you gotta take time. You really got to heal yourself. You got to get to know yourself. Yes, I'm still that's that's absolutely the
way I feel. However, or you know, I've been over the past year or so, I've been doing some podcasts talking with some people in this space, and one of the gentlemen who was divorced suggested, he said, I actually started dating early on, he said, but I just went out and went for a cup of coffee, and so typical just give. But listen, no, no, no, no, this this particular individual was is very introspective about it, different than most guys in these spaces because, believe me, I
get I totally understand where you're coming from. But his point was I needed to figure out what I was looking for, and part of rediscovering myself was knowing the type of person that I wanted to be with or did not want to be with. And he thought, and I think that's part of it.
This is the thing You're never going to get anything from anybody else, Like you need to figure out yourself, true, like you as the individual, because nobody is going to fill your cup up other than yourself. No one's gonna fill in a void. And that is just the way it is, right.
So I agree, can you to look and look and look, look, look like what do you You're never going to be satisfied because you haven't filled yourself up with anything other than looking for someone to fill it for you.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of men are do that kind of stuff, Sherul. They're like, okay, well you know what, I'm just gonna go look and as an excuse, you know, what's interesting.
Is just the recent dating. And you know it's interesting because the guys that I've been.
Dating, who are They're all like, very nice guys, but they all say the same thing to me. They're like, I'm not the same as him. You know, there are certain things I would never do, and kind of putting it into my head that you know, what I was doing was wrong and that they're so great and that I'm so bad, and I'm like, wait, a red flag. Oh no, that's a red flag, my friend gaslating me from my own experience.
Like yes, yeah, correct, that's exactly what's happening.
Because as I failed, now you're gonna make me worse about failing.
Flag red flag.
You can't walk away from those relationships feeling like you like you made a mistake, like you were to blame. You can't. You can't because you never I mean, the point is it's it's about not because I think it's societal in large part, and I think I do think to a certain degree it is specific to women in that they feel that sense of shame, that sense of responsibility for the failed relationships that in large part from my experience, guys don't really feel. They don't see it.
They don't get it in the same way.
I know it's because you don't want to get it. We'll all human like, really, it's all about self awareness, is what we're saying.
And also that they always talk about like a woman's everyone's like it was like a woman is already a woman's scorn, What about a man scorn?
No, they have it, but like do they ever take the time? I mean, I'm not talking generally obviously, Like there are men. I actually have met men that are very self aware that want to continue to evolve because no matter if you want to or not, weren't evolving, right,
And that's human nature. And if you say to me that if there's no shame when it comes to like any relationship, every female male, non binary, it doesn't matter, like we all have feelings, you're just the difference is is that we are saying it out loud to take the shame away. Because I believe when you say how you feel and you express it, especially whether it's podcasting, you're just talking to her friend, the shame does slowly
strip away. But for men, they just continue on. Not all men, Some men don't admit their feelings to themselves and just continue to numb. Whether that's date other women have sex with different women every single day, or maybe it's productivity that they're addicted to, you know, like it's just there's so much you can do to them.
That's like a certain personality trait and personality style. And then not all men are like that, no, because you know there are men that you know have a field marriage and you know they, yeah, they're upset about it. You know, they get better. I know, I feel like men need to have a woman more. Like we were talking about, like how Kelly and I want to like meet, you know, like that meet. In this case, I'm you know, I'm still with my husband, taught, but I'm just saying
that I would never be alone. I'm not just that kind of woman that I like to be in a relationship with a man, And so what I'm trying to say is that there's a lot of men, and I feel like men are needier that way that they need to once they're done with the relationship or with their marriage, they also need to go out and find a woman. Like they can't be alone. I feel like men have a harder time being alone with women.
But I have met men that could be alone too. It's rare, but it happens.
Right, I mean they can, but they have like ten women at the same time, so they may not have one woman, but they're like, you know, talking to ten different women, and you know, they're just like serial daters or whatever.
Yes, we're built differently, I guess.
Yeah, But I think that's right. I think when you say, I mean when you use the phrase self evaluate and evolve and improve self awareness, right, I think that's the piece that's missing to a certain degree with guys. And not all guys. Listen, there's no one size fits all with any of this. There is not. Everybody's their own individual and every relationship is its own thing. But I
think that's one of the things. The vast majority of the guys that I deal with, they seem to miss like and and when you say, like, hey, but what about this you could have done better? What about that you could have worked on? It's like, oh no, no, I'm always the bad guy. You know, what did you do wrong? What did whoa? Stop pointing to other people,
stop deflecting, stop being defensive, Like just step back. They always say, like there's a reason why you have two ears in one mouth, right, because you're supposed to do twice as much listening as you do talking. But I think a lot of times with guys, they're not good at that. And it's not every guy, but it's on average that's what I see. So like, just sit down, like shut up, just listen and like like digest it and like be self aware, right or self evaluated.
Go to it a meeting. You're gonna hear a bunch of men who are taking accountability because you have to. That's part of the program that I'm in as well, Like you have to take accountability for your addiction, right, that's the only way to get better and to be sober and take everything one day at a time. Until you first point the finger at yourself, there is no
way you know you're going down a slippery slope. So like, those are the types of men that when you know, I go to meetings like, there are men out there like that, and that's not It's the sexiest thing in the world when a man takes accountability, when anybody, I don't care what gender or non gender, it is the sexiest thing. It shows confidence, It shows stability, it shows security for me at least I think.
And when I have guys here like and complain like, oh, you know, there's no physical intimacy with my wife and this not happens like like, but you're not responsible, You're not like you're listening, You're not like you know, like, come on, man.
Do you think that that's one of the main causes and in the cases that you see, do you think it's one of the big factors why people go apart or there's you know, divorce.
Lack of physical intimacy, right.
Yeah, well lack of any obviously, any intimacy emotional or physical. But I feel like I have I know of people that have been married five six seven years. I mean they've been married for years and they haven't been intimate for five six seven years and they're okay with it.
I think that's okay.
That's a really good question, because in twenty five years of doing this, I think that's what I've gotten throughout no physical intimacy for years and people living in it. What I've been getting over say the past year to two years is people walking into my office and saying, we haven't had sex in five years. I can't live like that anymore.
I know, it's crazy. I hear these stories also because you know, I have a lot of friends, I own a beauty bar.
And historically I didn't hear that as much.
So DN when they come into your office, what's the what are the most important questions that people should ask considering a divorce, Like give us like three questions.
I mean I think, look, I think with divorce lawyers, you need to I would probably hang on from me. I would probably hang on is the lawyer, like like, look, there are specific questions you can ask, but like a lot of times people don't even know what questions they ask. I mean, you can ask like, hey, you know what's going to happen with the house and the event of a divorce, like what happens with my kids? What do I need to gather? What do I need to prove.
But I think it's more about asking, Like, it's more about preparing before you go into the office with the questions that you have off the top of your head and gauge what people's answers are, what the lawyer's answers are, you know, I feel like with lawyers, it's it's important
to have a full picture, right. So if you walk into to you know, work with a dentist, or have somebody do you know a medical procedure, or you walk in for anything, You're going to be analyzing what does the office look like, How does the staff speak to me, How do they treat me? How attentive are they when I talk to this lawyer, Like do they sound like they know what they're talking about? Because funny, when I first started practicing as a lawyer, I used to do consults,
right as you can imagine. And when I would do a consult, you know, I tell my boss, I've done three or four consults and nobody's hiring me. And then when I started doing it longer, everybody was hiring me. And I came to the conclusion that you don't need to be a lawyer to know when a lawyer's good. You don't need to have any specialized legal knowledge because when somebody's good at something, they exude confidence. You can see it, you can feel it. It's an energy. So you got to look for.
That and do they listen? Right?
So perfect example, I had a client that came into my office maybe about like I don't know, like maybe three or four years ago, and they said, you know I hired you. I said, because when I went into your competitor's office while I was talking to him, he was texting on his phone to say, Oh, hell no, you gotta be kidding, literally texting, And I'm disgusting. Not only is that not a lawyer you would want to hire,
but that's rude. It's just rude. Even if we were having a conversation at the coffee shop, I wouldn't be texting live.
I had a mediator. I hired a mediator to.
You know, organize my ex husband and I because you know, first of all, I didn't want my children.
So my biggest thing was the house.
Whatever money was not like I was just that that was what I was worried concerned about. I was very concerned about my kids and how things would be perceived for my kids and my youngest daughter. She went to they were they you know, they found out that that uh, my ex husband and I were getting divorced, and my and they went into talk to my youngest daughter and they said, you know, how are you And she goes, oh, you know your parents are getting divorced.
How are you?
And she goes, oh, my parents are separated, and she goes, everything's great and and they're like, no, no, no, you're your parents are getting divorced. And she's like, yeah, they're separated. They're not They're not getting divorced, so just they're separated. She didn't know the difference because she was young, but then later on she always says like, mom, I never even both of them are like I never even felt any of like the aftermath of a divorce because you
just like like literally just took over. Which was great for them, but really really bad for me. It was really really difficult for me.
It was really did or I did not go to therapy?
I were them your kids?
No, no, my kids did go to some therapy. But literally right after I like, was, you know, how am I going to make money? You know now that I you know, I'm going to be on my own with these two girls and they need to have education.
What am I going to do? And so I literally went on.
Housewives back when it was like, you know, totally different game, and it was it was probably it was probably one of the worst decisions that I had made. I mean, there was so many great things that happened from being a house.
I can help. Yeah, there was a.
Paycheck, but it was just I was not prepared emotionally for like.
This is different.
Like I talked to Cheryl and I like literally have cried in front of Cheryl, like I'm like, this is like how I'm feeling. And you know, she has a lot of empathy and she's you know, and Alexi and I don't know each other that well, but I can, you know, I just from hearing her story, I feel comfortable talking to her.
And obviously you're a lawyer, but you know, when I was.
On that show, I did not feel comfortable talking to them about anything.
It's hard. I'm on that show, Kelly, as you know, and it is hard.
There's just no camaraderie.
And they were, oh, you know, I've been lucky enough that I have a best friend online, but like when you did it, I felt like back in the day, right, Kelly, I felt the same because you know, our show started in twenty ten. I know year started before. But with that being said, back in the day, it was like everybody was so against each other. I think it's not a little better, it's still you still it will see that a lot awful. But I'm lucky enough that I
have my best friend on the show. So like I knew Lucky at her, I did not very lucky.
It had no I.
Literally knew Luan. Like for a second at from a party, I didn't knew no one. And so for me just going into that knowing that I needed to make money and knowing that I need to provide for my kids, and going into that after having a.
Mediator, it was just it was very stressful.
So I kind of I wish there was someone who can say, like men or women, like you're getting divorced, you know, here the here First of all, here are the questions to ask me, and then afterwards, like what are you going to do to start your new life?
Well, everyone's situation is very different, O Kelly. Yeah, everyone's situation is very different.
When does somebody hire a divorce attorney? Do you do this like when you're like still technically married before you've made the decision to separate, or or what is your advice?
I mean, I think, Look, you talked to a divorce lawyer as early on as you can. I think that's the most important thing, because you know, and I tell clients when they go into lawyers ze.
So what does that mean as you're still living together.
Let's put it this way. If you've ever had the idea cross your mind of divorce, if you've ever said it in a conversation in anger or otherwise, you should talk to a divorce lawyer behind you. Of course, of course people do it all the time, and I will tell you so. So I'll share a no story with you represented a a stay at home mom. You know, God, maybe about ten years ago. Now she's in the office. Oh he would never know I was here, blah blah blah.
Find out throughout the course of the litigation. Two years later. He talked to a lawyer eight months earlier than she did. So, so when you think that they haven't spoken with anybody, this is.
Part of the protect yourself first, like first.
Or you know what happens in New York and Dennis, you it is that.
What happens is that a lot of people they go and they talk to every single lawyer and so.
Then conflict them out. That's a that's a dirty trick, it really is.
Why can't you just like sit down with your partner before before going behind their back and having that conversation you know you're here encouraging its situation situational? Well, I mean that sounds like it's pretty bad. I mean, I feel like if you have to leave, you have to go see an attorney, and you know you can't you haven't had that conversation with your spouse. I think it's it's a betrayal. I honestly do. I mean, and for me,
I mean not a betrayal because it hasn't happened. But what I'm trying to say is if you feel the need that you have to go see an attorney before sitting down with your wife and having that conversation, just like you had it about their premium.
What if you can't have a conversation, well, stand up, No, No, I don't mean it literal like that. I don't mean it literal like what if you've already tried to the point where like you've gone a couple's therapy. But then let's say someone it's the act of infidelity. Right, let's just say that this is the situation.
Well, then you're ready for divorce and that's a deal breaker for you. But think that you both should know. And by the way, okay, you cheated on me, so you know we're going for divorce.
And for the person though who makes the most money has to sometimes, like I think, in California at least you have to almost hire the attorney for your spouse. Is that correct?
Well, in New York State, I mean, you know there is an attorneys space. Yeah, but again I think California may be the same. But I think, look, I think just just to your point, just to your point, if you're thinking about divorce and you're saying these things in conversations or it's crossing your life, you should absolutely talk to them about the problems first. Yeah. And if, like you said, if they're in a position where they're that person where it's like, hey, I'm gonna stonewall you or
i'm gonna place blame you. Try you get a professional involved. You maybe go to a marriage counselor not. Maybe probably go to a marriage counselor or someone you feel like you can trust and if and if they're because listen, in my experience, especially when the women that I represent, that marriage has been over four years before they.
Come into my office, it's usually like that.
So they've they've tried, and they've tried, and they've tried, and they've tried, and there have been conversations, or they get stonewall, or there's worse yet, there's domestic violence.
Like no, I feel like you should just tell the person. By the way, we're getting divorced and I'm going to an attorney. That's just me personally.
Do women or men hire first?
Like?
What are the stats?
They're like, I don't know the specific status women.
I've actually read women are the ones that file more than men.
I would probably say there's a couple of different things. Yes, Alexi, you one hundred percent right. Women file more than men to the tune of about sixty five seventy percent or so. But the funny part about it is most of those same women have given me signs throughout that the relationship has been over for years. I think a lot tis right.
Well, right, okay, So Dennis, let me ask you something does trial separation always equal divorce or do you see like people reconciling.
I see people reconciling more frequently midstream of divorce litigation than I do in trial separations. The trial separations I find is one partner knows they want to be divorced, and the only way they're going to get the other side to forgive the expression but play ball with the process to not make it long drawn out, is to say, oh, well, we may get back together again. It's just a trial separation. It's the only way they can sell it to them.
In fact, I had a conversation about that just today with one of my associates about a case that we have, and and you know, look, people do what they need to do because every situation is specific, it's its own thing. They do what they need to do to get through it. And Kelly, as you said, it's you know, these are tough processes. There's no perfect path or right answer. You just do the best you can to get through it.
You know, you want to try to get out, to come out on the other side with you know, your kids intact. Because I find with ladies that tends to be their focus, like more more than the guys like kids are everything or sure could be, and yourself only always comes second, unfortunately, but yourself too.
My dog comes first, so I get it.
I have three of my own, so I get it.
This is a great place for us to take a pause. So do you guys have any questions about divorce? Are you guys looking for advice now that your relationship or marriage is over? Call us or email us, follow us on socials. All the information will be in the show notes, so make sure to rate and review the podcast I Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.