Picture this. You've dedicated your life to performing, You've spent countless thousands of hours in dance classes, sessions with vocal coaches, doing scriptwork, and finally, finally you win Australian theatre's most prestigious award. What do you do next, Well, if you're Elise McCann, you do what's totally illogical and start a
tech company. Elise is one of Australia's top performers. She's a singer, a dancer, an actor and a producer and now she's also the co founder of wellness app hey Lemonade, which delivers three minute pep talks from famous Australian voices, which she started with fellow entertainer Lucy Durak. So how does she hold together more jobs than you can count
on one hand? Well, I can tell you right now that Alice thinks a lot about how she works, and after having researched her ways of working prior to our chat, I went into this interview thinking I was about to meet my kindred spirit of productivity nerdiness. My name is doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of Behavioral Science Consultancy Inventium and this is how I work a show about how to help you do your
best work. Now, the obvious question I had for a lease to start with is how does an award winning musical theater star end up starting a tech company.
It was a product of naivety.
I think Lucy Jreck and I had obviously been friends for many years. We actually met in a dance class back when I was seventeen or something like that. Lucy was in the cast of Mum and Bea. I was studying at NAIDA and I was watching her on stage night and I just remember thinking she was amazing. And we met in this dance class and we became friends,
and we've stayed friends over the years. And you know, we'd often go for walks because I love a walk any time I can kind of multitask, including exercise and talking to someone. And during COVID, we both obviously had been the arts had been hit hugely, and Loose and
I particularly were going through some tough times. Loose had been playing Princess Fiona in Shrek the Musical, and I was living in New York and I was working with Sarah Jessica Parker's production company and just it was having a great time over there, and then COVID happened and we came back and everything disappeared. And both of us we're really resilient, optimistic people, but I think that we had that thing where you started to think, Wow, I
don't know what the next chapter will look like. When you can't envision what's going to happen next, there is a different sense of kind of you know, stress or a little bit of doubt that comes in. And so we both actually did some meditation apps. There was this amazing Deepak Chopra meditation program that was going around and we both had ended up doing it, and both of us had a similar experience where we felt like we
weren't doing it right. Loose was always you know, like changing Teddy her son's nappy whilst trying to do the listen to the meditation because she just never had time on her own, and she's like, ah, I can't do this with my eyes closed. I can't stick for twenty minutes. And I was the same. I was always like, my brain is constantly thinking ahead, you know, I produced as well as act, and my brain's always thinking of the
next spot fire. And I was finding it really hard to turn my brain off, and I was like, am I doing this right? Like I don't know if I'm doing this right? And often, yeah, sometimes we didn't like the voice of the person.
And so there were a whole bunch of things.
And we went for a walk and we're having a chat and Loose was like, this is what I need, a chat with a friend and I was like, yes.
We should make that.
And we just naively were like, great, let's let's let's see if there's an if anything like that is out there. And so we looked all, you know, across the app stores and we couldn't find anything. And we thought, oh, we'll just make it. And so because neither of us had ever done anything like this, we just thought it'll be fine. And I think that's actually what made it happen.
Two things.
One not having any concept really of what was involved. And both of us are very asque culture people. We're very like yes and you say yes before you say no, and you figure out how to do it, rather than you know, stopping something before you figure out how.
To do it.
And so we just said about trying and that and also I think the fact that yeah, yeah, we just didn't know how hard it would be.
I remember going on a walk with one of your other co founders, the other Lucy Lucy Cochrane, Yes, and she was telling me, Yeah, she was telling me how you got a meeting with Alan Joyce, which blew my mind. Can you tell me how like we get in the room, how two performers who've just started this tech company but it hasn't yet launched, getting meeting with Alan Joyce to do work at Quantas.
Yes, Yes, it's ridiculous and phenomenal. We've been very lucky we have.
We've had we're able to be in the room with Alan Joyce and Rob Marcalino, who was the head of people in HR at Quantas. We've also done the same with We did the same with Craig Drummond at Medibank, and with Jean Pratt and the team USY. We've been so lucky to get into amazing rooms. And part of that, honestly, one, we have some amazing business mentors and investors that you know, people in that world and believe in us in the product.
But two, because Louisa and I have worked in the entertainment industry, Lucy Jurak and I've worked in the entertainment industry for so long. We know really interesting different groups of people from when they come to see the show.
And I think there is like, and I don't want to say it too loud in case the magic wears off, but I think there's like some little bit of luck magic that we have where someone has seen you on Stay and they think, oh wow, that's kind of a bit cool, and so they want to meet you, and so they let you come into the room. And I think often we'll you know, we get in the room where it happens for Hamilton reference if anyone loves a musical.
And decided thank you, thank you too.
And so you know, we've been we've been very dedicated to make sure that if we get in the room, we're really prepared, because you don't want to squander that opportunity, because as you said, it's like it's so rare. But thankfully, you know, these wonderful people who've been intrigued by us and then have been able to kind of hear about our product and have liked it, and so now we're getting to yeah, develop branches of it for them.
How did you prepare for the meeting with Alan.
We basically wrote a script and we we then we then allocated out the script, and then we used what we use for our when we learn scripts for TV shows or for acting, and we use this thing called line learner. So we both together recorded the script into line learner and then you can mute the other person.
Because Lucy has been living in Melbourne and I live in Sydney most of the time, so we're not always in the same city, and so we just like rehearse with the other person in our ear but using line learner, just so that we kind of had our script and our pitch down, and we put together a whole presentation.
And decks and slides.
And I love graphics and I love color anything that kind of helps my brain catalog things, and so we made up a huge deck and a huge slide, and we did some mock pitches. We did some mock pittures with Lucy Cochran and with one of our investors, and.
Then we just kind of gave it a go and it went really well. Go figure, I'd love that.
You wrote a script and you learned the script. How like, where do you even start to with the script writing process for a business? Meeting.
Yeah, I know, it sounds so silly.
We basically wanted to have had every We wanted to know everything that we wanted to say and find a way to say it as condensedly as possible. And so we thought, let's write that out and then just refine it, refine it, refine it, refine it, and make sure it was under ten minutes, because we did know how much time we'd have with him, and so we thought, okay, if we can make this under ten minutes, then we also have time to field questions, to just banter back
and forth. But worst case, if they're just going to come in and sit and give us nothing, we know that we can get in and get out. And so so that's what we did. Yeah, we kind of wrote everything that we'd ever want to say, which is what I used to do with essays as a teenager because I'm such a nerd, And then I'd write everything I wanted and then you'd just you know, whittle it back to the bare bones. And in doing so, because Louse and I obviously like learned scripts all the time. Our
brains are quite good at learning scripts. And so then when someone asks you a question, if it kind of ties into a section of the script that you were going to talk about. You can kind of respond that way but still make it really natural. And I think that that helped us because I don't know if they know that we made a script. If you're listening, Alan,
there was no script, this didn't happen. But yeah, so I don't know if I don't think they realized that we were, you know, essentially giving them a script, but we did.
Yeah, what's your process for learning?
As for me, it's repetition, but actually you know what, No, it's it's a compilation of repetition, so just saying it a few times, but it's actually connecting it with normally if you're doing in it as an actor, connecting it with like an intention of the character, and thinking about it as listening to what the other person was saying. So we always try and if someone asks a question, think of it as what would I say? How would
I respond to that question? And really think as you would as a human because we respond to questions all the time, so why would we not do it the same way when you're doing a script. So in terms of this, we we tried to like have each other kind of jumping just towards the end of someone's thoughts. So it felt like it continued on and we had little moments where we'd always script it, even for some
forward loose to jump in. Like that was your section where we talk about the difference between meditation and motivation applications, and we talked about how the meditation field is crowded and there are you know, a number of apps on the market and they're wonderful what they do, but it requires consistent practice and sometimes many people are even triggered by motivational you know, the words meditation or motivation, and like Lucy would jump in and go and sometimes people
are triggered by the words motivation or meditation.
I was like, yeah, so we just.
Kind of like it was so it sounds so silly now I'm saying about loud, but it really worked, and it meant that it came across. It meant that we knew that we we knew what we wanted to say, We knew that we had the language, and that we could just relax and we could just deliver it if that was all we were going to get the opportunity
to do. But otherwise, yeah, like I said, riff off it and so but we did we programmed in little moments to like jump in on each other, which is also I think useful because then you're not just trying to remember large blocks, like it becomes a conversation.
And that makes it way easier.
In terms of your career as an entertainer. And you know where I've seen you on stages is Miss Honey and Matilda, and you were amazing and you won a lot of awards for that role, such as the Helpman Award, which is like that's like the Oscars of Australian Theater, I guess exactly for people that don't know that those awards, like what happens after you win all those awards? Do you still have to audition for things?
That's a great question, and you know what, sometimes you do. Yes, definitely I still audition for things all the time. But you do sometimes have people just offer you things, and that's amazing, Like that's kind of where you go, this is the dream.
Oh my gosh.
You know, look, I actually quite like auditioning because I like getting to play a part that for me, I try and go in and think this is my part for these seven minutes, like this is me, this is my version, and hope you like it, basically, but it can often be the only time you ever really get to sing certain material or do a scene, you know, because unless you're the one person chosen for the role, you're not necessarily ever gonna sing that song or.
Do that scene. So I don't mind auditioning.
When you do have to audition, How do you prepare for an audition?
Honestly, it depends on the part, and it depends on the medium. So if you're auditioning for a musical, then you have to prepare three disciplines really, So if the show is a dance show, you might need to tap dance, or it might be more of a hip hop kind of show, or it might be a bit more of a classic Broadway show. So most of the time you want to make sure you're go into a dance class to kind of at least brush up if you haven't been a really diligent person who's always going to dance class,
which is what we should all be. But if you're not that person me, then you go to a dance class to try and brush up on that area. And then obviously you have to prepare your script and song. And often if you are going for a role, they often just give you material, so you kind of straight away go into learning the song from the show. But if you're maybe going in for ensemble or they don't really know where to put you, they will often ask
you to prepare your own song. So then you'll find in a song that sits in the right style of the show that's not from the show. You know, you try and find something by a similar composer or by that composer from something else, and you have to learn that you prepare it as like thirty two bar because they never want to have too much of it. And
then the same thing with your script. And I always try and I always try and learn the lines without trying to put any acting into it, just so like they're words, because otherwise if I find that if I'm learning them with a thought in my head of how I'm supposed to say it, then I can only say it that way, Whereas if I just learn them as words, then when someone gives me something, if I ask someone to read with me, if they give me something different,
I can respond differently. Because they're just words, They're not predetermined how they're delivered. So I try and do that, and I always try and have a friendly read with me live before the audition because or else the first time you actually do it with someone else is on the day and then it can throw you. So yes, there's lots of things for that and that. If you're
auditioning for a TV or film, then same thing. It's often just a script, but it's a different kind of medium because it's not as physical, so they're not going to see as much of your face or your body, and you have to you know, the cameras off are much closer, so you have to kind of really contain the acting. The thoughts are all the same, but you just have to remember that it's as if I was talking to someone just across from me, rather than projecting
to two thousand people. So you know, they're different skill sets, but yeah, there's different kind of things that you can do for each of them.
What about rejection, because I imagine you know, as someone in this industry, you would have had lots of rejection, so much like, how have your strategies for dealing with that and managing that changed over the years.
When I first started, I used to take it quite personally because I was young and I was still developing my thick skin, I think, and if I'm really honest, when I was little, younger, I was chubby, and I didn't feel very beautiful, and I always felt like I wasn't pretty enough, or I was too fat, or you know,
that was kind of the narrative i'd tell myself. And so there was a little of judgment on myself and a little bit of shame, like if I didn't get something or if I didn't go well, and over time I had to thankfully, part of that meant that then I was I looked a little bit older than my age when I first started out, and so that meant that then I actually got a foot in the door because I could cover roles that we're a bit older and a bit younger. And I think that's actually what
helped me get into the industry. So now I can reflect on that, I'm quite grateful, but at the time I didn't really understand it that way. But over the years, just because it happens so often, if you get one out of every ten things you go for, you are smashing it like it's it's hard, and often you don't get something and it's nothing to do with you. It's
about the balance, it's about the mix. It's that there's actually no male opposite that's also auditioned that's in the right age bracket, or that is you know, they're much taller than you, or it could be anything. You know, they've cast another role and there was only one option, and that person's blonde, So we need a brunette. Like it can be anything, and so it's so not about you, and it's not until you do it enough and enough that.
You kind of realize that.
And I think for me, I had to just kind of keep telling myself if I am not okay with the rejection, that I just shouldn't do it, and that's okay, Like you.
Don't have to do this job.
It's a choice, and if you want to do the job you have to. You have to get okay with someone saying no, and remember it's not about you, and focus. For me, I just focus on what is meant to be will be.
I want to know, with this kind of change in how you make decisions around deliberately doing things that excite you and make you happy, what does that look like now on a day to day basis when you're evaluating how to live your life.
Yeah, I mean, oh, I need to do it a little bit. I need to come back to it a little bit, to be honest, because recently I had have said yes to many things and I was feeling a little bit stretched, and I was like, ooh, I'm at capacity and that I think that can happen for a lot of people. And I think that happens for a lot of people in the business world and a lot of people in the enertainment world, because in the entertainment world,
we're ultimately always freelancers. You know, you work for a show, whether it's a TV show or a musical or a play, for a finite period of time, and so you're constantly moving from employer to employer, and so you don't ever have that sense of normalcy or stability of this is what every day looks like. And so because of that, you tend to say yes because you're like, I don't know what's going to come after this, so I should
say yes to what's happening now. And for me, I started making finding and creating ways to make my own work. So I, you know, started writing and I produce and we've you know, created this company, and that has been so powerful because that's given me another skill set and something that I have agency in and have control over. And so I don't feel like I have to say
yes to something in the entertainment world or anything. Actually, like I don't have to take a producing job if I don't want to do it, because I would actually rather make space to perform in that. Or I don't have to say yes to auditioning for that ad that's three thousand dollars and going to take me days and days of work to go in for it, and it's not worth my time because you know what, actually I can put my time and energy into this other thing
that I love. So having a variety of things I think is really has been really important for me and so useful. And I often like, if I ever get to talk to other actors or young actors, I'm often saying, find something else that gives you joy, because sometimes you'll burn out because as an actor, you give so much energy, and so you do sometimes deplete yourself of that energy. So you need something else that can kind of refill
your tank. And you know, one of my girlfriends, she'd created a company called Sojournal, and she basically designs itineraries for people. So because she loves travel, she knows all about different places in the world, and that's what she does when she's just like wanting to do something fun. And I have another friend that like learned to be
a vegan chef because that makes her feel fun. And so they're not jobs that they necessarily go and try and fulfill in a you know, every day, full time sense.
But it's something else.
That makes you feel like you have power, that you have agency, and that therefore you know and that makes you feel good. So then you don't rely on having to have someone else approve or validate you to work, which is what happens as an actor because you can't choose which jobs you get. Someone else decides. They decide if you get to audition, they decide if you get the part, They decide when that job is so because
you have no autonomy. There For me, it was really about creating something else that meant I had autonomy, and then it is now it is about saying, what is what excites me and what can I validly fit in in terms of time and is this time that is worth? Is this time that I'm going to carve out for
this worth that does it sustain me somehow? So recently I was asked to work on a development of a new TV show and I really really wanted to do that, and so even though I was completely full, I was like, I'm going to make time, and so I had to pull out as something else so I could do that. And then same thing, I was asked to do a development of a new musical, and same thing, I was like, Oh, I really want to do that because all you know, as an actor, you just want to create a role.
So I was like, great, I want to do that. So I need to change these hours, which means I'm going to work on this time on the weekend. And that's a valid sacrifice to make because that's important to me. But then someone else will ask you to do something and I'm like, you know what, that doesn't feel like it excites me, so that I'm not going to make space.
For sounds like there's so many things that you're juggling. And I know that you're a big fan of to do lists and maybe you've got quite the system. Can you talk me through your system for to do lists?
Yes?
So I have, like I love a list because there's so many different things going on, my brain needs to be aware of all these different projects. So I have like a master flow chart, and basically it's this big chart that has each of the different projects, and within each one of them, I have all of the elements that I need to do, and it might be broken down in terms of things I need to action, things that need to be chased up, things that are and I also then in terms of hay Lemon aid, I
break them down into sections. So this is creative, this is legal, this is content, this is marketing. So it's just really clear and easy for me to straight up go ooh, there's a lot of things happening in content right now.
I need to put some more time in that.
Oh that thing that's easy to delegate, great, and it just kind of gives me an overall view. And if I can also then tell that there's a whole bunch of things on my performance schedule. I need to rehearse for Barbra streisand I need to do that audition, I need to put down that tape, I need to you know, start preparing learning that script. So you can see there's a whole bunch of things. And because I can see
it all. I can see how much, I guess you know where the weight is going and maybe where I need to carve out more space for one thing and less for something else. And I've also use color a lot because my brain loves color, and it does it kind of.
Like helps me see somehow.
It helps.
I have a bit of a photographic memory when color is involved. So if something you know, I can kind of see the color and then somehow see all the things underneath. It sounds silly, but it works.
It doesn't sound silly at all. Tell me about how you manage your diary and how you chunk things, because again I know you think quite deeply about this.
I yes, I schedule. I schedule within an inch of its life.
So it started. I actually started when I was at.
High school because I was a super nerd. So anyone out there that's a nerd, I see, and I would. I knew that I had, you know, multiple subjects of exams, and I had them all back to back. For some reason, mine had all been scheduled back to back. So when I schedule now, I do the same thing I did then, which is I'm like okay, so I say I get up at six or six thirty, I'll try and either go for a walk or do some yoga and do life admin because there's something about having the life admin
feel at least clear in my brain. It's like having a clear desk. It makes me feel like I can conquer what's next. And then I schedule. Okay, so from nine to eleven, I'm going to do hay lemonade. Then from eleven thirty till this time, I'm going to work on this project. At three o'clock, I will always try. Between three and four, I try and sing or try and do you know, script work or whatever it might be.
Then I'll do another bit of hay lemonade, and then I try and do social work, like something social in the evening so that I feel connected. And I know it sounds like overly scheduled, but it's the only way I can a get through everything and b for me because there's so many projects, I don't have to have any one thing finished, or it's unlikely I'll ever have
any one thing finished. So if I've done a bit of something of each thing that day, then at least I feel like I'm maintaining and that kind of gives me a great sense of satisfaction, but also means that I'm making progress, Whereas if I try to do all of one thing, finish that, then move on to the next, it's just never going to happen. And then you're trying to particularly with performing, you're rushing it. So I have these big concerts coming up. I'm doing these barbarsteris and cons.
It's across the country. It's me Caroline O'Connor, Katie Noonan and Ryan Gonzalez, and we sing the score of Barbra Streisand and it's amazing. But her music is epic, and so you have to sing it in. So if I wait, I can easily just move that off the list because it doesn't feel like it's right now or it's urgent. But if I do that, then my voice isn't gonna have sung it in when it comes around to it, and doing it a week before three days before isn't
enough time. So it's better for me to go, I'm going to do an hour, one hour, or I'm gonna do just half an hour or And this is what I do.
When I'm learning a new show. I will schedule.
I'll go, Okay, I'm gonna do these two songs today, tomorrow's a break. I do those two songs the next day, then a break, than those two songs the next day, then have a break. Then the next day I will do all six of those songs, then start again the next week, and then I kind of work backwards, and I just always alter the order slightly, but make sure that you're building on something, because I feel like small bite sized chunks is achievable, whereas if it's just all one big thing too much.
I love the I'm wondering what happens.
When things go awright. Well, I think when things go awry.
Or when your motivation goes awry.
It happens all the time.
To be honest, almost daily things go awry, and so I almost daily don't stick to the schedule, and I have to be okay with that. But something about having a schedule means that then you also can the days it doesn't go awry, means that if I have to skip singing today or I have to skip working on that project today, I can because I did some yesterday and I know I've got it scheduled for some tomorrow. So it's it's about like for me, it's about having that sense of order that then can be have some
flexibility around it. And sometimes I definitely lose motivation, and that's when I also know that I am tired and probably a bit burnt out, and so then I will also try and just like clear things off the plate and like delegate if I can, and or just be okay that some days you just need to sit on your couch and watch YouTube clips of dogs. You know, that's what I have to do some days. And if that's what I do, that's okay, and I go cool.
I'll start again tomorrow. I think one of my superpowers and my downsides is that I get every things really quickly, and I think it's something I had to build up because of acting. But it's like I make a decision quickly, and if it's wrong, that feels so bad. I hate it, but at least I know and then I can like try something else. And it's the same with this. It's like if I don't get something, it sucks, but then I can try again tomorrow, or at least you know
where you stand. I rather know than like a oh maybe in any capacity. And that's how I feel about the schedule and about all of those elements like if I can't do it today, oh that sucks, but that's cool. I'll just start it again tomorrow. Just have to accept the given circumstances.
We will be back with at least soon talking about her slightly unusual system for capturing ideas and thoughts when she is on the go. If you'll look for more tips to improve the way that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving through the interesting research findings. You can sign up for that at Howiwork dot co.
That's how I work dot co. I know you've got a system for when you think of something on the go and you need to remember it, tell me what you do.
So I write myself text messages so I have a running text to myself. It's equals MC squared because my name is Elise and mccatn which is mcc and I actually had been It was because when I was in New York, I remember walking past his coffee place and they had a picture of Albert Einstein and e and then m with you know the two like sign and I was like, Ohm, sorry see and then the two and I was like, oh god, that's my initials. And
I was like, oh my gosh, that's like energy. That's like abb Einstein's whoa and my mind blew and I was.
Like, there says me, I feel seen. And it was just like this like weird moment.
And also I have a massive Mariahkarry obsession, so of course we all know the emancipation of MIMI is E equals MC squared, So I basically label myself equals MC squared. And it always gives me a giggle because then if I have to write something to myself, I can find it really easily. And it also just means everything is in one spot and I can come back to it really quickly. But it something about laughing, I think just it releases indoorphins, It releases tension, it releases stress, so
when my brain is on overdrive at least. Also, yeah, having like a fun name for my own text message love letter to myself is useful.
Do you, like, do you do anything with those messages, like, for example, do you have a system where you will go back over all the messages that you will send to equals MC squad during the day and then do something with them. Or is it more just a repository of things.
It's more a repository of things, to be honest. But to be honest, something about writing them down means that my brain doesn't need to remember them anymore. And then I often I do come back to them at the end of the day, but I often find that most of them have been actioned by that stage, and when they haven't, added them to the flow.
Shut.
But of course, but but it kind of it isn't most of the time for me, just about the brain not wasting energy on trying to remember something.
I am very lucky.
That I happen to be able to work quite quickly, and I am a great multitasker. I'm good at getting shit done. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear sorry, you can. Christ I stopped myself earlier, I couldn't this time. I'm really good at getting shit done. And and so if I but I get I holt, I get stopped or you know, I get stuck in that if I feel like I'm trying to hold onto too many things. So it's mostly just about getting them out and I think that that's you know, that works with stress, with
all kinds of things. Just getting it out means that you can come back to that later if you want to. I think I think it works with anger. I think it works with actually all of our emotions too, Like if you are really angry at someone or really hurt by something, I often will write that down, write down exactly what I want to say to that person, because then I don't have to hold it. Then I can actually let it go. And if I want to tell them, I've got it there so I don't have to hold
onto it to remember to tell them it's there. So it just I do that with everything, just like write it down some way so then you can let it go.
I know you're a big fan of emails in draft.
I am.
Tell me about that.
Okay, so most people think I'm nuts about this, but I if I have something that I want to if I need to action, or an email I need to send to someone, or information I need to convey to someone, I will start it in an email. And then if I you know, if I just have a thought like oh, that's right. Actually, you know what, let's make sure that we tell everyone that we're going to have this year subscription,
and let's tell them on the first of January. I'll go and write that in an email and you know, write the name of the person this is going to go to. But I'll pop it in an email and leave it in my drafts. And I do that with everything because so I actually have I just checked this morning, I have twenty six drafts in my email, which is actually not too bad, I thought, but draft emails, I
should say. But the reason I do that is because or else I'm going to write that down somewhere else to remember it and then have to come back and at some point translate that into an email. Whereas if I, you know, if I'm working through a problem or I'm you know, thinking about something we need to action down the track, if I have it in an email draft already, then half the work is done.
You just you get.
And also it's another reminder every time you go back to your drafts or something else happens, you're like, oh, yes, of course that have I actioned that yet, And you can just add to it and it's all same thing in the one place. And it's kind of like having little you know, flow tabs for each individual thing, but it saves me the time of you know, going back in and doing it later.
And I know that lots of people.
Say, carve at time to do one thing and you know that's what's going to make you most productive. But for me, I'm I'm yeah, the opposite. I'm the opposite in all of the things.
I think.
Now.
I know that one of your friends.
Gave you advice that is I think commonly given that you're the average of the five people that you spend the most time with, and I know that's something you've thought about. Can you tell me what, like, what changes have you made to your life after doubling down on that advice.
Yeah, it's so funny because, yeah, my friend said that to me years ago, years and years ago, like probably a decade ago, and I had remembered thinking, oh, wow, that's really cool. Yeah that's cool, and thinking about the people that I probably spent the most time with and feeling like, oh, they're awesome people.
I love that.
And it wasn't until I would say, probably three or four years ago, probably three years ago, probably no, probably four years ago, and then really enhanced with COVID, so almost three years ago that I was reminded of that that saying by this same friend and realized, oh, I needed to take action on this. And that was because I realized that I had as a people pleaser and I am out person I would, you know, I would
say that that's something. You know, I get energy from others, and so an extrovert, I guess you'd say, I would often give my time to lots of people. I would try and do catch ups with lots of people because you make a lot of friends in our industry, because you meet a lot of individual people and you get on really well. And I would try and catch up with all of those people. Everyone's like, let's catch up. You're like yeah, yeah, yeah, and you make all this time.
But I realized that actually a lot of those catch ups are actually work colleagues. They're not necessarily friends, and that's okay. And I realized that I actually needed to be more deliberate about when I give that time, because you talk for an hour about the biz or things, but actually you've not had really meaningful, engaged conversations and or not necessarily with someone that is refilling or reinvesting
in me. And I realized I need to it's up to me to stop putting my energy out there to everyone else and just giving that to everyone else if it's not also being replenished. And so I really deliberately were like, I don't have to be friends with everyone. I can be friendly, but I don't have to be best friends with everyone. That's okay, and so I'm going to focus on the people that inspire me and invest in me and motivate me, because that is you know,
then that's kind of refeeling, and that's cyclical. We kind of then support each other. And so I really deliberately did that, and I think COVID was helpful because we all were stuck at home and so we couldn't do all those catch ups and you know, someone's like, oh, let's have a phone call, let's have a zoom, and then you realize, actually that person never reaches out, and you're like, oh, that's okay. Well, then we're probably not
as important to each other. And that doesn't mean we can't be friendly, but we don't need each other in the same way. And so just being able to let go of that and then focus on the people that are important and that really give back has been really useful and friends and family. Community is really important to me. They are central to my life, feeling connected and feeling like there are people that I can share it with.
And I think because a point did come actually when I won The Helpman with Matilda and I'd won the Sydney Theater Award and I was playing this role that I loved, and I was like, Wow, this is everything I ever thought that I wanted. I've literally gotten all the things I've wanted and I have no one to share it with. And it was because I was so busy with work and with all of these you know, people that were friendly, but I hadn't I didn't have a partner at the time, and I, you know, wasn't
making time for my family. And I was like, wow, I really don't have that sense of anchoring community to share this with. And I was like, and it means nothing when that happens. So yeah, I made a concerted effort to start investing in those people that were going to give back to me.
How did you do that? I feel like that's easier said, that's done, And I can certainly relate to what you're saying. I feel like I'm an only child and so for me, friends the family that I choose absolutely, and so I take my friendships really really seriously. And I think over the last few years, I've been very reflective when I catch up with someone. Am I getting energized and energy from this person, or am I leaving feeling a bit deflated and like I gave so much of myself but
I'm not really kind of getting it back. I'm curious as to what that process is like for you.
Yeah, Like, that's a great question. And part of it was a mindset, but in actual tangible form, it was having to stop myself from doing a lot of reaching out because I would often move into a state of, oh, I need to make sure that person knows that I like them or I value them, or that person had said we should catch up, so I want it. I'm going to reach out to them. And I deliberately stopped myself from reaching out to anyone for a month. And
I know that sounds so silly. I mean, I did my partner and my family obviously, but otherwise I was like, I'm not going to reach out and initiate a catch up and I'm going to see who reaches out to me.
And it was.
Sobering to be honest, because that I think and obviously lots of people have lots of things going on in their lives and it's not definitive and it's not indicative of all ways of how important someone is. But it was about making space for people to come to me rather than always coming towards others. And that was kind
of what set me off. And then once I was able to go, Wow, that person's reached out and that person has been hey, I'm just going to check in, or that person or I feel like I'm missing that person. I haven't heard from them, but I really feel like I missed them. That was the what made me go, Okay, I need to reach out to them because that is giving me something. And so it was, Yeah, it's mostly about it was making space.
I love that idea of a thirty day.
We do it all the time, and that's the thing it was, because you know I do I did a thirty day meditation challenge, we do a thirty day detox, we do a thirty you know what I mean, like thirty days of November, like whatever it might be. It's like, yeah, just see what happens. I know, because people say it all the time. With acting, they say like, don't if you go forward too much, if you yell, if you press, people pull away. But if you kind of lean in, you know, or if you speak quieter, if you make
more space around you. If you're talking all the time, this is my fault. Then no one has space to talk. But if you leave space, someone else can talk. And it's the same with this.
It's like create space and see who can come in to your life.
Love that. I love that at least for people wanting to connect with you. What is the best way to do that.
I am terrible on Twitter and LinkedIn. I have them, but I don't use them a lot. I'm trying to use LinkedIn more. So welcome me to that field, guys, because I it's not the field you normally use as an actor, So welcome me there because I'm trying.
But I mostly use.
Instagram and probably Instagram the most, to be honest. So you can reach out of any of my socials or I've got a website you can reach out through.
Hay Lemonade. I would yeah, love to connect great.
I'll put all those handles in the show notes.
Elie. Thank you just been.
Such a joy. As I finished, has that time gone? It has because we're going to get kicked out of the studio. But as I said to you when I met you, when I was like reading over and doing research for the interview, I'm like, I think this is my kindred spirit that I'm about to meet. Oh my god, I feel it.
I feel it. I'm such a fan. So this has been such a joy and privilege.
Thank you, Mutual Joy, Thank you. One of my favorite takeouts from this interview was the fact that har and Lucy literally scripted out their meeting with Alan Joyce. I just think that's so cool, and it's made me really rethink how I approach sales meetings. I feel like, having had, oh gosh, a couple of decades worth of experience selling things and doing business development, I sometimes find myself getting lazy and not doing the preparation that I ideally should
be doing. So hearing Elise talk about all the work that went into their pitch with Alan Joyce has kind of reinvigorated me to go, Hmm, how can I be more disciplined to make sure I really maximize the time that I get to spend in front of people who might want to be buying the products and services that I'm offering. Thank you for sharing part of your day with me by listening to How I Work. If you're keen for more tips on how to work better, connect
with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of the WARRANGERI people part of the cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able to work and live on this beautiful land and I want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios.
The producer for this episode was
Liam Riordon, and thank you to Martin Nimba who did the audio mix and makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise.