Tech journalist Peter Wells on how to automate your job

What I found when I was trying to automate those tasks that I was talking about in my old job. The first thing I did was like look up conferences and people speaking about that exact issue, because I realized that, like, if I'm seeing this as a total pain in my day, that I'm spending way too much of my day doing this, someone else much smarter than me has already thought of that and has probably come up with solutions. So rather than try to rebuild from scratch, I'm going to find

Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics you used by the world's most successful people to get so much out of their day.

I'm your host, doctor Amantha Iver.

I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. Before we get to you today's show, I just want to do a call out for listener questions, so as you might have noticed if you're a regular listener of How I Work, that I am now dedicating a few episodes to answering questions that might be on your mind about the world.

Of work and productivity.

So if anything's on your mind that you would like me to cover, please send it through to Amantha at Inventium dot com dot au and my email is always in the show notes as well.

So let's get onto today's guest. Who is Peter Wells.

Now, if you've been listening to How I Work for the last few weeks, you might recognize Peter from.

The Meta podcast.

So Peter recently had me as a guest on one of his podcasts, which is a podcast all about podcasters.

So I actually replayed that episode.

On How I Work, and I'm a big fan of what Peter does with Meta. So when Peter is not hosting that podcast, he is a technology journalist for the Sydney Morning Herald and has been for many many years, where he writes about tech and podcasts, and he also now recently launched a daily tech podcast called The Help Desk, which is well worth checking out.

So I must say I'm a huge.

Fan of tech journalists because I feel like I'm in for a really geeky kind of chat, which I love.

And there were lots of great tips.

That I got from Peter, especially around thinking about.

Automating your job.

So Peter has a really interesting advice around this, which actually inspired me to think about what more of my own job I could automate. So on that note, let's head to Peter to hear about how he works. Peter, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

We've been reviewing technology for many, many years, and I've got to say I love talking to tech reporters because I feel like they've got the best advice. So I want to know what your favorite gadgets that you've been using in twenty twenty. So no pressure, no pressure, and they don't have to have been released in twenty twenty. That's the rules of the game, so just stuff that you're using.

I honestly think that the best bit of tech that's come out in the last couple of years has been the Airpod's pro. So the original AirPods were great, but the pro their magic. It blows my mind every time I put them in and turn on the little noise canceling thing.

No, tiny, little earbuds that have no.

Kind of seal around the ear should knock out the sound of the world around you as well as they do.

And it just boggles my.

Mind every time you get really jaded after a certain time as a tech reporter or a journalist, when you get sent all of these things to play with and you know, you have to sit through our long presentations about how this new gadget's going to change the world and change how you see the world, and then you spend five minutes with it and go, eh, that's all right, I guess. But for me, the Airpod's pro was still that kind of like I don't know. I open them

Is that fun? Just being sent free gadgets? I feel like that would be living the dream.

Oh totally.

Back when I was writing a weekly column tech column for SMH, companies would actually just send me stuff without even telling me that they were going to so like I would just there was just this constant stream of like brown boxes arriving on my doorstep and it was like Christmas. Every day. I'm like, I wonder what's in this? And yeah, so that was really really fun. I'm happy for people to continue to do that.

If you're listening, Oh my goodness, how do I get a job as a tech reporter, Peter? You me?

It took a hell of long time.

Oh gosh, that tell me one other gud Because I've got a pair of epop pros and I love them. But I feel like with my AirPods, and this is a running joke with my friends that I would speak to quite regularly, that there's always just that moment of hang on, hang on, wait, wait for the air pods to connect. How the AirPods aren't working? Oh, why aren't they sinking? Let me call you back.

Yeah, yeah, I.

Feel like there's that moment that would be my one complaint with any like the air AirPods or the airpop pros.

I find Oh no, totally.

And so I mean, I don't make a hell of a lot of phone calls these days, so I never did.

I guess I'm much more of a text and a chat kind of person.

But yeah, when I was at work, when I had like the full time desk job, I would always just have one of the earbuds in the whole time, so that I'd never had that issue of waiting.

That's a great idea. I like that, And then the other one can be charging and then you can swap it out and you.

Can still hear everyone in the office.

And yeah, yeah, it's just a nice way of kind of keeping involved but also having just background noise.

And yeah, tell me some other gadgets that you're a fan of.

I think anything that helps me get through my day a little bit more is always something that I love, and me.

I really love.

I've got a house full of Google Assistant devices, and you know, some of my friends are use Alexa instead.

I really like Google's interface.

I've got one of the screen ones sitting in on my kitchen bench, and you know, when I'm making dinner for myself and it's just showing photos of my kids go by. And then in the morning, I start every morning by kind of making a cup of coffee and just saying good morning to the device. And by the way, always thank you for digital assistants, because when the robots rise up against us, they'll remember the ones who say thank you. And it's just also nice to do in

I think it was about two hundred bucks.

For the Google Home Hub is the one I use, but yeah, Amazon has a similar version if you prefer them. It's when technology can kind of step in and fill the gaps because my brain is always mushed most of the time and I have seven hundred things to try to remember. So anything I can offload to a gadget or a device and then know that it's there and I'm going to be able to remember it later.

They're the gadgets I really.

Love so with the Google Assistant because I actually I was given one for my birthday, which was a couple of months ago, and I feel like the person that gave it to me is often giving me tips on what to do, but I just wouldn't have known how to get the most out of it. Like even this morning, I was given the tip say to your Google Assistant, Hey Google, good morning, And then it told me all this stuff that was quite helpful. It told me about the weather, it told me some news headlines. It started

Absolutely, those kind of routines and so that they're all found under routines within the Google Home app on iOS or Android, So pop on in there. You'll find a bunch of stuff that you may not have thought about. And discoverability of features is always a trick when it

Okay, I'm still going to do that. I'm excited. I like the sound of your TV light setup. That's really cool. Yeah. I haven't gone down the smart lights route, yet, but maybe one day. How about software, Like, aside from the usual suspects, what do you find software or apps that help you work better and look help in any aspects of life? Really?

Yeah, I'm going to say, actually, when we were chatting last week, you mentioned to ever note and it was almost like you mentioned a friend who had passed away, like it was so sad to hear because I've just started a brand new business.

What I've found in the past is.

Humans always underestimate how long it takes to do anything, and I'm especially guilty of that. And so whenever I've changed roles, I've found that rescue time.

Are you familiar with that?

I am familiar with rescue time, but I imagine a lot of listeners are not so rescue time time tracking software, but can you maybe go into a bit of detailer and also around like what makes it different as well from other options out there.

Yeah, so rescue Time.

Why I really like it is, first of all, the free tier is pretty much good enough for most people. Unless you're in a team and you really want to understand where everyone is working, then rescue the free tier of rescue time is absolutely fine.

And I've used it over the years.

I've never really kind of stuck with it, but whenever I transition into a new role, I always started up because I always realized that whatever I'm trying to do takes way longer or maybe even shorter sometimes but rarely than I expect. And so what I love about Rescue Time it's just a very simple app that lives in the menu bar of your Mac or your PC, and just all it does is just quietly, silently track what you're spending your time in, and it does it in.

A really good way. I trust the privacy of this service.

It's been around forever, and you know, there are certain apps that could do the same kind of time tracking that I'd feel less comfortable giving it access to see where I was, what I was doing on my computer all day, whereas, yeah, risky your time. I've really trusted over the years. I think they're good people behind it. So the great thing about it is it's just really simple. It doesn't intrude, It doesn't make you have to remember to set a time or I don't have to think

That's really interesting using it to give you feedback and help you become more accurate in estimating how long a task takes. I yeah, I've never thought about using time tracking software that way. I did go through a Rescue time stage, I want to say, maybe six months ago. I would like just running some experiments at Inventium around time tracking, and I think I've never found a time tracking system that I've firstly got a lot of value out of and therefore like it hasn't changed my behavior

And I think, especially when everyone is working from home, you might not have the same kind of feedback that you would normally get in an office environment. I think a lot of people are struggling to get through the day and wonder did.

They actually accomplish anything? You know. It feels like that's.

Been a big concern for some of the friends I have. Yeah, just during these kind of isolation lockdown months of you know, did I really accomplish a lot?

Do I get? You know?

How much more effective am I when say the kids aren't at daycare versus when they are, Like, these are really fascinating things for me to at least track so that I can then look forward and figure out, well, you know, my daughter's going to be home that day, realistically, what can I get done. The other way I used it actually was when I first started out as a macadmin at a university. Again, it was a job i'd

And you know, I.

Gave myself, you know, a couple of weeks to not package anything, to give myself that eighty percent of the time back and figure out a way to automate that task. And you know, three weeks of hard work figuring out how to automate it, I was able to do that, and then suddenly I had eighty percent of my week freed up to do more interesting stuff and to yeah, to look at all the other sections of the job.

So for rescue time, I think that was the moment where I really really.

Fell in love with that app because it was like, Okay, you've actually given me eighty percent of my week back for the rest of my time in this role.

So yeah, that was incredibly valuable.

Yeah, that's amazing. I want to come back to automation, But first, what other software are you finding really helpful?

I guess the one thing I would mention is if this then that, which is.

Software that kind of pulls together like it it runs in the background to kind of try to pull off that ever note idea of like the one spot to look for. Basically you can set up if this then that, And there's a couple of other similar software out there. Is that like ZPR Yeah, zebiers is is the kind of the more polished version.

I guess.

So I've just been using this then that for so long that that's where all my little formulas are so for instance, going back to Rescue Time each evening, where Rescue Time will send my report to Google Calendar, so I can.

See how I did that day.

And if I create something in to dost as you know, this is a task that I need to do today, then it will pop that into my Google calendar as a thirty minute chunk somewhere. But yeah, yeah, so little things like that. So again it's it's automation. Really, it's that same idea of like, I don't want to have to do the you know, input the same data into

That's really cool. And so for listeners that maybe haven't done much in the way of automation or haven't used Zapier or Zapier, is it zaper or Zapier, I.

Have no idea. I think it's no idea.

Yeah, I call it Zapier. But if they haven't used like software that essentially helps one application talk to another application. How should people be thinking about this in terms of automating some of the tasks and I guess regular things that they have to do.

I guess the first thing I would say is don't over complicate things. I even though I've been using this and that for almost a decade, I would imagine I only have like a couple of rules because you don't want to create an endless loop between applications.

So just think of, like, what is the one.

Or two things that you would love to see happening in whatever it is, whether it be to say, if you want to see your to do items as all day events in your calendar, then combine those two services and see.

If that works for you.

In terms of automation, though I would say more of it's not just like software like if this then that, or like I don't want to get too nerdy here, even though obviously.

No please get nerdy.

Well, I just think that, like, no matter what the role you're doing is, whether you're working as an academic, you know, I previously worked at a university as tech support, and a lot of my day was trying to help people automate their tasks and not using specific software, but just like saying, okay.

You need you know, if you.

Need to prep for a lecture that you're get, what are the things that you need to do all the time that you can just put into a bucket like whatever it is, whether it's just a note, tapp or a whatever, that you've got a list that you can just always refer back to, so you never have to have that mental energy of going through these tasks that.

You do every day. And so that's what I'd be looking for.

The other thing I would say, actually, and this is probably not the answer you would expect from it like a nerdy person, But what I found when I was trying to automate those tasks that I was talking about in my old job, the first thing I did was like look up conferences and people speaking about that exact issue, because I realized that, like, if I'm seeing this as a total pain in my day, that I'm spending way too much of my day doing this, someone else much

That actually be cool.

Here's how you do it, and between the pair of us, we would come up with this new system that would make both our lives easier. So I've never been afraid to kind of reach out to other people doing the similar job that I'm doing and just quiz them and like, what do you do? How do you use the you know, before we started recording, we were chatting about how we

I know how awful it is to lose audio, and.

So if I can share that and make someone's life a little bit easier than I'm more than happy to.

That's cool. And I like the idea of just googling how can I automate X? You know, whatever X is. I reckon, I'm actually going to do that for a few things in my life. I do want to talk about podcasting, and I am curious as to how you approach your podcast behind the scenes. So at the moment and You've got a podcast called Meta, which is an interview style podcast where you talk to quite high profile podcasters about podcasting, and that is how we originally connected.

Yeah?

Look, it's a tricky one.

If you've never recorded a podcast before, you may not understand just how much time and effort goes into it. Like, you know, I guess that forty minute show that you're listening to probably has about three or four hours of prep before it and maybe two three hours of post production after it, and so yeah, so again I made sure that I factored all of that in and before I started the Daily Show, I emailed the squeaz Do,

And what did they say? Did they say, yes, you are insane?

Some did, some did, but no, no, I mean the Squeeze. One of the reasons I keep mentioning them is that they were super supportive and just said, look, you know, the first couple of weeks will absolutely kill you, but once you get past that, you'll be okay. And so because of that, I made sure that we started actually rehearsing the Daily Show about three weeks before we went live with it. And so we weren't doing it every day,

Me?

Can I fit this into my day?

And so yeah, So it really was a lot of I guess pre production a lot more than say Meta, which I felt more comfortable with because it was more of a spin off of the column that I was already writing for SMH. So it just felt like a value add to the SMH column as opposed to the help disc which was its own giant thing.

With Meta, like you've had some great guests on Meta, How do you decide which podcasts to cover? How do you discover new podcasts?

A lot of the way I discover them is opening my email and seeing pictures. I get a lot of pictures each week of there are so many new podcasts coming out, and I wish just stop doing the interview one for a while, let me matter find its audience, and then you can go back to you some the amount of times I open on my email and it's like, oh, that person from that.

Radio show has launched a brand new show just.

Like yours anyway, but yees. So for me, I mean, I do love podcasts. That's that's why I make the show. That's why I wrote the column to begin with, and so I am always excited to find a new show that I love, so a lot of the time it's recommendations from friends things like that.

In terms of how I.

Structure the show, it's the same way I structured the column, which was when I first started, I had no idea what I was doing, and then finally I just hit me like, oh yeah, like podcasters are really good storytellers, Like that's why they do it, so shut up, let them talk and then pop their words into the paper. And that's been my theory when it comes to editing meta as well, is that as much as possible, I take all of my stuff out, like all of my

And what's your approach to interviewing people, because like my experience, so for context, you interviewed me on the show a

In terms of how I prep what I've found over the years is if I go into an interview either over prepared or underprepared, it tends to be an interview that I don't really enjoy after the fact. So what I tend to do now is a couple of days before I'm going to interview someone, I'll really deep dive into what their podcast is or what their background is, and I'll just open up the notes app in mac

Oh, that's right. I didn't ask the question. I just wrote it down, but I forgot to.

But most of the time that's fine because instead I asked a more interesting question because I let the conversation flow.

That's nice. I like that idea of not being over or underprepared. Yes, I feel like I could learn something from that. And I'm curious, because you must get pitched.

To a lot.

How how do you decide? Because I could definitely relate to that. I get pitches every single day of the week for how I work, and multiple times a day. Do you have any kind of quick rules of farmers to how you kind of at least give a quick no or a quick yes.

Even yeah, that's that's a really hard one, isn't it, Because you don't want to You don't want to send a no straight away, but then you also don't want to leave someone hanging. So I use just to go back to software for a second, I use Spark as my email client, which most most modern email clients these days have some kind of snooze function. And if it's

So, if you're going to pitch to me, please, first of all, have a trailer.

Second of all, have not just a trailer, but say if you're a discussion show like this one, then say, hey, I really love you to listen to the discussion we had with so and so, especially the seventeen minute mark. I feel, really, you know, boils down what I try to pull off on this show.

Like it's just a really great example of when myself and a guest click and so, you know, give me a call to action to help me kind of discover your show and discover what's great about your show.

I think that's very useful, just useful advice for people that are trying to pitch an idea anywhere, like to you know, to their boss, to client, a potential customer. Just make it easy for the person and obviously put yourself in their shoes, because I can imagine that, like gosh,

Well, the help desk, if you want to hear just ten minutes a day about technology, we'll do our best. It depends, it depends what you're after. So a good friend of mine writes a newsless called The Sizzle at the Sizzle dot Com tod au and it is the funniest look at technology that you will read. It's five bucks a month. It has a lot of swearing in it. If that will put you off, but it is. It is just beautifully acerbic writing about technology and companies, and yeah,

Any noteworthy Twitter accounts that you want to mention.

Oh gosh, all right.

I love John Syracusa is an American technology writer and reviewer. He's been doing a few year. I absolutely love his Twitter feed. I think it's one of the best. So that is at Syracusa. I'll send you the link so you can pop it in the show notes. But yeah,

What are your favorite podcasts at the moment, given that you sample so many.

The one I always I always mention as as just a gem that I don't think enough people listen to is Oer with Ross and Kerry, which is an indie show out of the States, and they look at various kind of fringe science and fringe you know, I don't want to go into it too much, but anyway, they will look at for instance, they did a study on scientology.

But they're the long investigations they've done.

But every week they'll do a great little one off show as well about I think the latest one was how would a scientist react to Donald Trump's reelection? Which is fascinating on many levels.

That's awesome. I'm so going to link to that in the show notes. And final question for you, Peter, if people want to consume more of what you're doing and producing in the world, what is the best way for listeners.

To do that?

Follow me on Twitter, I guess, or if you don't like Twitter, I promise the websites will be done by the time you give this, so that would be metapodcast.

Dot net and the Helpdesk podcast dot net.

Fantastic and your Twitter handle. I want to say, is at Peter Wells.

It is? It is. I'm very old and I got there.

Early, so well I got at Amantha, So there you go.

Oh no, it's nice.

Yeah, I know, I know. Well, Peter, it has been wonderful chatting. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Oh, thank you so much. I really really enjoyed the show. So thank you.

That is it for today's show. I hope you liked it.

It certainly inspired me to think about my whole processes for doing this podcast, which are really not that efficient. And yeah, literally, as a result of this interview, I've listened out every single step that I go through for this podcast, and I've thought about what can I automate, what can I delegate, and what do I still do myself. So it's a work in progress, but it's definitely getting better.

You so much.

So that is it for today's show and I will see you next time.