If you've been listening to how I work in the last few months, you might have heard me mention that I've been working on a new book called time Wise.
Okay, that's an understatement.
I have been talking about time Wise at nauseam, and did I mention that it's out now wherever you get books?
Okay?
Anyway, I've just spent the last eighteen months going through the whole publishing process, from coming up with an idea for a book, to pitching it to a publisher, to getting a deal, to writing the book, to editing the book, and now finally to marketing the book. And I've had so many questions from my friends, clients, workmates about the whole process, so I thought i'd share what goes on
behind the scenes. And who better to interview than the amazing woman who commissioned my book time Wise for Penguin Random House, Izzy Yates. Izzy is the head of the publishing lab at Penguin Random House, and I.
Call her my book captain.
She's been in charge of guiding my new book all the way from my initial proposal to a finished product that is now in bookshops and online retailers. In my chat with Izzy, she breaks down everything from how the team at Penguin decide on the books that they publish, through to what goes on between an author producing the first draft of a book to polishing it to make it ready to go to print.
My name is doctor Amanthea Immer.
I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. And this is how I work a show about how to help you do your best work.
When I was offered a book deal with.
Penguin, I felt pretty bloody lucky and very very excited. Izzy, who commissioned my book, only works on ten to twelve books per year and I got to be one of those. I imagined that Izzy receives a lot of pictures.
And I wanted to know where do all these.
Book pictures that she receives come from that eventually feed into the select view that.
She decides to publish.
Well, they can come from a few different places, So some come to us through literary agents. Some of them might reach us directly. So you know, sometimes I'll have someone in my network who will be making an introduction to someone they know who's got a book idea, and then that starts the conversation that way. We do also, you know, have direct submissions through through our website. Most
publishers do that. They have submission guidelines on their websites so that anyone can put forward their manuscript or their proposal. And then you know, often I might spot someone who's doing interesting work that I think could be transferable to a book, and in that case, I'll get in touch with them and start a conversation about how we could collaborate together. So it's really there's a range of different routes, I suppose.
So when people reach out to you, like are they sending you an entire manuscript or book? Like, what do they actually send you?
Well, it differs actually depending on whether it's a fictional nonfiction book. Usually, so because I just work on nonfiction books, I'm generally just receiving a proposal. So whereas for a fiction book, it would be normal to expect the whole first draft of the manuscript to come through. For me, it would be a proposal document, and that might be somewhere between sort of ten and fifty pages, I suppose.
So it's you know, we're acquiring new projects based on the concept, based on that outline and what's in the proposal, but it's not until the book is actually signed that the author, if they're a non fiction author, will then go off and write the first draft. So we're not necessarily buying it with a whole book to look at.
Okay, And so you've got essentially ten to twelve slots if you like, in any given year, how many proposals and pitches do you think would you estimate that you're receiving that you need to narrow down to that ten to twelve?
You know, it's probably several a week that I'm thinking about coming from all those different places and then other ideas, So there's a really big sort of pool to narrow down essentially to get to those books that I'm going to publish each year.
Okay, So what makes for a really great pitch or proposal?
So I think, first of all, looking for a unique proposition, so something that's new or a fresh take on an existing idea or topic. I really am drawn to proposals that have an important message. I love working with authors who have a mission or a purpose, and working in nonfiction, you know, I'm very passionate about books that will educate or inspire or change thinking or behavior in some way, I'm certainly looking for something that's very timely, maybe you know,
connects to or contributes to the zeitgeist. It should ideally have a kind of clear and engaging voice coming through from the author, and quality content of course, so you know, a clearly structured proposal is always very, very helpful when a publisher is kind of considering that that project to
potentially take it forward. We want to be able to understand quickly what it's about, what makes it unique in the market, what its strengths and differences are, and of course understand who the author is and what they're about, and what we might expect working with them, and ideas for how we could sort of bring the book to market and make it a great success together.
I remember talking to a literary agent in America and talking about the American publishing market, and I remember he said, with nonfiction books, particularly business and self development kind of books, howablishers evaluate the I guess the strength of a proposal is the uniqueness of the idea multiplied by the size of the platform of the author. And I'm wondering in Australia, how important is that when you look at the author
or the writer that's behind the idea. How important is the size of their reach or platform or profile.
I would say it's definitely an important consideration, absolutely. You know, audience is increasingly becoming very important and something that we think about a lot as publishers. So someone who has gotten established online community or you know, a brand and perhaps a rich and influential network, all of those things are going to really help with the success of the proposal at that consideration stage. But as you say, and as you sort of hinted that with that quote, you know,
it's only one component of it. So while we will, you know, we consider consider that platform and that audience, it also needs to tick all the other boxes, I suppose, and we're also looking for that kind of spark and the idea and other factors that point to the potential
of the book. But what's increasingly proven to be the case and was really really exciting is the potential for books that respond to trends and to existing markets and established and identifiable markets that we can then really work with those authors in a collaborative way to produce the best book that that audience is going to really respond to and love.
It's been probably about a year I reckon since my book proposal hit your desk via my wonderful agent, Kathy, and I'm wondering if you can cast your mind back to receiving that proposal. It was not called time Wise then, I think it was called how They Work was the working title, And I'd love to know if you remember what your initial thoughts were when you received that proposal.
Yes, I remember it well because it just grabbed me immediately.
To be honest, this was.
I would actually kind of put your proposal up there as a bit of a gold standard, a manser as with everything else that you've done throughout the publishing process. But it was so well structured and clear, so you know, I remember that it opened with a really excellent overview that explained the concept but also what's unique about your book. You'd really thought about where it would sit in the market,
its strengthen, its points of difference. One of the things that blew me away, and certainly did with other people in my team was your marketing plan that you'd included, which was very, very comprehensive. It really showed that you'd thought in depth about, you know, how we could work
together to make the book a success. It really showed your passion and your commitment and your sort of your determination to use the resources you already have at your disposal in conjunction with what we would be doing, and just full of ideas. I think I got a really immediate sense of who you are and what you're about, and what you will hope to achieve with the book. And plus it you know, it had your warmth and
your energy on every page of it. So I just I read it and I thought, I would love to work with this person, and I think this would be a fascinating book, one that would have a lot of people.
That's lovely fakes, you see, I'm blushing. You can't say that though. Now it's all well and good for you to like the proposal, but then there's a whole internal sales process. Can you talk me through what happens when you get a proposal and you fall in love with it. What then happens then to actually get to the point where you're offering an author a publishing contract.
The publisher such as myself is the first port of call, and we're really right from the beginning, it's our job to be the champion for the book and for the author through the business. So the first the first step is to take proposal to what we call in at Penguin Random House are publishing meeting. So that's a meeting with everyone in the publishing department, publishing director, the other publishers, and commissioning editors and representatives of the editorial teams as well.
And what I will do is, as well as the proposal from the author, I will craft a memo which is my sort of personal pitch for the book as well, share both of those with everyone in my team, and then we'll come together to discuss discuss the book essentially and talk about you know, it's meriots and what we
see the potential as being. So I'm going in there to pitch it, and then if that goes well, then I will take the proposal forward to our acquisitions meeting, and that's a meeting with other representatives from the business, all the key stakeholders really, so people from sales and marketing and publicity, and again, you know, it's a pitching process and it's all about sort of getting everybody on board discussing the potential of the book, where we think
it could sit in the market, what we think the commercial potential will be and that's a pretty rigorous discussion and always really really good because we want to you know, put a lot of consideration into those decisions. They're important. And then at the end of that meeting, if everyone is really keen to go forward and proceed with the book, then it's a case of you know, putting together an offer to put to the author, to the agent and
hopefully securing a deal and moving to contracts. And then really at that point, you know, the publishing process begins, I suppose, and it's time to talk in more detail about getting going with the writing process with the author.
So with books that get to the publishing meeting, what percentage would make it to the next stage, which is the acquisitions meeting.
We have a good conversion rate from the publishing meeting to the acquisitions meeting. You know, everyone, every publisher has already been quite careful and rigorous in sort of thinking about which projects they're bringing forward to the publishing meeting, and needless to say, lots of lots of ideas and
proposals don't make it to that point. And then once we're at the acquisitions meeting, you know, we have about fifty to seventy percent conversion rate I think for books that have come to that meeting and that do end up being published by us.
So once you've got the contracts on it and the authors onboard, the actual writing of the book starts, so theoretically the main part of the process. So how does that work? How does that part of the process work, from the authors starting to write the book through to getting the proofs, which is the you know, essentially how the book will look in its printed form.
What happens Well, one.
Of the first things to say is that often that is quite a lengthy process in terms of time, and I think that's something that you know, people from outside of publishing might not necessarily be aware of it can it can be a year or two between you know, that that contractual stage and having the book ready to go to the printer. So it really depends on the book of course, and the author and you know, their their timeline for writing that first draft. Some are in a position to go away and do it in a
few months, some need a lot longer. So, but generally speaking, we work on a timeframe of sort of a year from the delivery of the manuscript, the first draft of the manuscript until publication, So add the writing time to that and that's you know, that's how you can end up with quite a number of months. So really again speaking for the sorts of projects that I work on, So after that contractual stage, then it's time to get cracking with the writing. And obviously planning is really really
a scent or in that. I always like to, you know, have a good sit down and conversation with the art author at that point because generally speaking we'll have a really strong outline of the book from the proposal. But it's important to you know, get a strong sense of what the content is going to be in the book before the writing begins. And also, you know, mapping out often a sort of deadline schedule can be very helpful.
We're thinking about sort of sixty to one hundred thousand words on average for a book of this kind, and you know that's a big project, it's a big writing undertaking. So what I found is it certainly helpsful for authors if we sort of break that down into smaller chunks. Naturally, chapters lend themselves well to that, and so we might make a plan for delivery and just establish some of
those key milestones. Some authors quite like to you know, perhaps their deliver doing a new chapter every fortnight, or you know, we'll have a check in three months in and we can see how it's all going with the writing. So that planning and that sort of coaching through is really helpful that I've found. And another thing that I do like to do is sort of request the first couple of chapters once they're ready, just the first draft, so that I can have a read of those and
get a sense of the voice and the content. And because course correction, you know, is obviously much more effective if it can happen at an earlier stage. So it's nice to check in once the writing has begun and see how it's all going. And then we'll always just sort of be in touch pretty frequently during that process, and you know, I can also be a bit of an accountability buddy and you know, help guide that writing
process along. And one of the things that I truly love about my job is the ability to do that sort of real collaboration with authors, and so a lot of the time, you know, I might be working with authors who this is their first book publishing experience, and perhaps they don't really come from a background of writing, even if they come from another field of content creation, and in that case it's really a sort of co creation process, and we'll be thinking a lot about, you know,
what's their content from other platforms that have been really successful, what's the mission and the purpose for this book, and how can we create a book that is going to be a really fantastic reflection of them and is going to really appeal to their audience. So in those cases, I get to be really quite heavily involved in that sort of content creation, and that's always a really fantastic experience.
I've learned through this process that there are two editing stages. So there's the structural edit and then there's the copy edit. If I've given that stage the correct name, And time Wise skipped over the structural edit. So I'm wondering if you can comment on why and maybe what actually happens during that stage. How big a process is it.
Yeah, so time Wise was fairly unusual in that regard, and that's all credit to you a month where it's because you already had such a fantastic structure in place with the book. It was already working very very well in your first draft that actually it didn't require a structural edit. But generally speaking, the structural edit is all about the book on a macro level, I suppose. So we're thinking about how it flows from beginning to end. Is it logical? Is all the content there that we want?
Is it in the right places? You know? Do we need to think about moving things around a little bit. Do we need more information in some places? Do we need more kind of color and story in other places?
So it's that big picture look at the book, So that happens first, and the feedback might take the form of a structural report, so it might be a set of notes that I would put together and perhaps some comments in the margin as well, So that when that structural edit is completed, it goes back to the author and they get the chance to obviously read it all through and make revisions to the manuscript based on that feedback. And then when the second draft comes in, that's when
the copy edit happens. And that's different because it's really more detailed and it's focused on what's happening on the line. Every single line of the manuscript will be read and
edited carefully. You know. Copy editors are incredibly skilled people with remarkable attention to detail, so they'll be going through and you know, scrutinizing I suppose the grammar and the spelling and making sure there's clarity where there needs to be and that's really sort of detailed, and because obviously at that point the structure should all be hanging in
place really nicely. So then that set of edits will go back to the author again for them to review and fix up any last last little things that they'd like to change, and then it's off to typesetting when we make it look like a book, which.
Is very exciting.
Now.
I must say that I've worked with several editors before, and the coffee editing stage I found quite amazing with Penguin and with Clive, the amazing Clive he is listening, who was my coffee editor. Although I feel like you were kind of like a co editor with Clive at that stage, I'm not sure how that relationship worked behind the scenes. Did you guys kind of tag team on that or did Clive do the main copy edit and then he then threw it to you for questions or how did that work?
Yeah, this is one of those things that can differ from book to book, but the way that we work at Penguin Random House is every book has the publisher or commissioning editor of course, and then a dedicated editor, and the editor is responsible for sort of project managing the book and also doing the close work on the text. And it is remarkable and editors are so so wonderful and very lucky to work with Clive and the other editors that we have because they are just highly skilled
and absolutely fantastic. So because for time wise, you know, there wasn't really that need for the separate structural edit, Clive and I sort of took it in turns to review the manuscript and you know, put our thoughts on there for you and provide our feedback. So you know, there are a few little minor structural things here and there, which I was focusing on the structural side of things more so, and Clive was focusing on the copy edit.
But it was very light. In fact, it was light on both because it was an excellent draft, ah.
Because it didn't feel light on the copy edit.
So to give listens an idea of just how thorough the process is, which I just I loved and probably what could have been a very tedious and boring process was made really quite joyous, like Clive is very funny and also excellent at his job, but just to give listen as an idea, Like I mean, Clive, when he was going through the manuscript would make comments like, you know,
you've used this term like in turn. I think was maybe a phrase that I use as a like at the beginning of sentences occasionally, you know, like twelve times in this manuscript, and that's possibly too often. So can we think of some alternative phrasing for that, like that kind of thing, And like you know in this paragraph you've used this, you know, maybe this adjective twice. So can we just find an alternative given we don't want
to repeat this word in the same paragraph. Just really small things like that, which I think when you focus through focus on all those things throughout a book just improves readability and just engaging this so much, which is stuff that I never really gave too much thought to with anything I'd written prior to time wise. But now even when I'm just writing, you know, seven hundred word articles with the various places that I write, I now I feel like I have Clive's words in my head,
going think of a different adjective there. Please, you don't call your readers, but.
I loved that.
Now, how do you decide when a book is finished and ready to be typeset? Like, because you can just keep on tinkering, How do you know when it's done?
I know it can be a bit hard to let go sometimes, I can imagine, but really it's you know, after that copy edit stage has been completed and the authors has responded to any queries and you know it's happy with all the changes that have been made, at that point, it should be ready to go off to typesetting, and so you know, we'll clean up the document, get everything in place, and the idea really after that is
when the pages come back from the type setter. It's all about just weeding out and identifying any small last errors that might be hiding in there somewhere, so that it's ready to go to the printer. After we've done that type setting, we're not really seeking to make any big, big changes to the book. So that's a great stage for the author. Firstly because you know, you get pages that start to look like a book and you can
see the design and everything, so that's really brilliant. But also because then you're kind of on the home stretch. It's just fixing up the last little bits and pieces. You know, the proofread will happen alongside the author review of the pages. But then we're just tidying up and getting it really, really polished and perfect before it goes to the printer. And then you can have a big sigh of relief.
Yes, yes, I have passed that sage to the process, so I've definitely had that side of Really.
We will be back soon with Izzy.
Talking about what goes in to designing the.
Front cover of a book.
If you're looking for more tips to improve the way that you work, I write a short, fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving through to interesting research findings. You can sign up for that at Howiwork dot code. That's how I work dot co. Now, the front cover of the book. People say you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but inevitably that often
happens when it comes to books. So how much involvement do authors get in the cover design?
Like?
How does that whole process work?
It's a fascinating process, and I can understand why people, you know, are interested in how it all happens, because, yeah, as you say, you know, we walk into a bookstore and you just see all those amazing covers and it's you know, often first contact that you have with the book, and it can be a really influential factor and to whether you decide to pick it up, whether you decide to buy it, not to mention all the kind of
design ingenuity that goes into it. So it's certainly a really fun part of the process, part of the publishing process, and it begins really quite a long time before the book the book is published as well, so you know, it could be nine months or a year before the release date of the book we start working on the cover, and generally speaking, the publisher will brief a designers on, you know, the vision for the cover, where the book obviously is going to sit in the market, and what
it's about, so they get a good understanding of what it is, any design inspiration and with as much information as we can pass on to them to sort of inspire that, the designer will then put together a range of different concepts and then they will be narrow down a little bit and then take into our covers meeting, so again we have representatives from those important parts of the business and we'll all get together and have a look at the concepts that we've got there and discussed
which are the strongest. You know, often there can be multiple stages involved in that. It's it's an important thing to get right, and it's also good to get, you know, input from the author, and we'll always consult the author as well, because you know, you might have ideas and suggestions that we can take into consideration, and of course it's important for you to love the book cover as well.
So it's it's the sort of process of whittling down and sometimes it can be really difficult because you've got a range of really fantastic designs and you have to narrow it down to just settle upon one. So it's a really collaborative process. And I do recall as well, Amantha, that you had put together your own sort of design
inspiration boards. It is really really great because obviously you have such a clear idea about your vision for the book as well, so that fed into the brief and the process as well, so it all went into it to help us come up with a really fantastic cover that we've.
Got, yes, which I love, And is that unusual?
So what I gave you goth many many months ago, now, I thought, well, I'll take it upon myself to put together. Basically, I guess it was like a mood board for the cover based on other book covers that I really liked, that we're in a similar genre and the elements that I liked. And then I emailed that to you and I said, hey, do you want to share this with
whoever was designing my cover? Is that like, is that an unusual thing to receive from an author or do A lot of authors that you work with have quite a clear vision for what they want in the cover that look like.
It varies quite a lot. I think understandably a lot of authors have, you know, kind of ideas or aspirations for their cover because you know, it's part of visualizing your book at the end of the day, isn't it. So I can really understand that it's not that common to sort of receive it in the way that you did.
But I like to ask my authors if they've got any particular ideas or sort of preferences with regard to their cover or if there are any books out there that they love the design of, just to get a
sense of what their taste is. But I think what is really kind of key and what is a great benefit of working with a publishing house is that we have the expertise to do that work and to create a cover that's going to be really successful, because you know, as opposed to perhaps if you're yourself publishing, then you're
responsible for all these different parts of the process. But it's really wonderful to have very skilled designers who have designed many book covers and to be able to bring all of that sort of inspiration and those suggestions together, but then really create something new out of it. That's really the goal. So that's sort of something that we are really thrilled to be able to offer.
Now we're recording this in March, and time Wise is coming out on the fifth of July, and tomorrow I have a meeting with the marketing and publicity people at Penguin, which I'm very excited for. So what goes into a marketing campaign for a book.
To be honest, the marketing process in a sense begins right at the beginning when we sign up the book. You know, as the publisher, I'm already thinking about how we can position the book in the market right from the beginning. It forms part of those initial decision making conversations, and then it's a I suppose it's a three stage process in terms of how we spread the message about
the book. So first of all, the publisher is sort of marketing the book internally to the different departments, so talking about the book to the sales and marketing and publicity teams. Then those guys are talking to the booksellers, so they're marketing the book to the booksellers who are going to be selling the book to the consumer. And then there's the marketing to the consumer as well, so all of those people need to be excited and informed
about the book. So there's kind of multiple things to think about there in terms of the marketing, and so all of this is informed by various meetings that we have. So we have a meeting called the positioning meeting where everyone gets together and talks in detail about what the
book is, and that then informs the campaign meeting. So the dedicated marketer and publicist will get together with sales representatives and start planning what's going to go into the campaign and they work really closely together to sort of cover all bases and then also collaboratively with the author. So hence why we're going to be having that meeting tomorrow. So you know, there's we talked about the cover. That's
obviously an important part of marketing. And then you know, one of the things that's that's maybe a bit unusual in terms of publishing is that actually marketing budgets are pretty small compared to other industries, so it's it's a case of working creatively and strategically to build awareness and buzz and obviously get word of mouth and anticipation going. So you know, the marketing will be thinking about that
long next to sort of run up to publication. Perhaps we'll be planning special things for a pre order campaign. There'll be planning of digital marketing, so programmatic social media. We will be you know, perhaps getting some proof copies of the books and advanced copies of the book made so they can go to media and go to key influencers,
all sorts of things. So there's a lot that goes into it, and that's why you know we have a dedicated, dedicated marketer to bring it all together and they will be as I said, starting to work on it months before publication.
And now when the book is out and released, how at Penguin do you judge if it was a success. Is that purely based on sales figures?
Certainly not. I mean they're sort of coming back to the decision making that happens at the acquisitions process. There are many reasons why we might sign up a book and want to publish it. Obviously we are thinking about the commercial potential of it, but you know, there could be other reasons. Perhaps it's about providing a platform to underrepresented voices, or investing in long term talent, or publishing a book that we really believe has a valuable contribution
to the public discourse. So as well as looking at sales figures, which naturally we do, you know, there are things like winning awards or you know, generating important conversations and media. All of those things are sort of success factors. You know, they indicate that the book has had an impact, made a difference and is contributing in some way.
So you've been immersed in my book time wise, definitely for the last few months, particularly with the editing process. I'd love to know because my producer said that when he was asking you about your working routines, that you've adopted some of the tips in my book, and I'd love to know, like which ones have had the biggest impact on the way that you work? Is he.
I have? And this is one of the great privileges that I have getting to work with authors like Yo Mantha, because I get it's amazing access to your ideas and to try out some of the things that I learn as a result, and obviously time wise is chock full of really fantastic, actionable things to try, and so yes,
I've definitely incorporated a few of them. I think one of the really great things in there is regarding chronotype and being aware I suppose of energy and focus throughout the day and trying to structure your working day in
a way that aligns with that. So I am a lark, so I'm more most alert in sort of those first couple of hours after I wake up, and so having that insight in that understanding has allowed me to try and structure my day so that I'm doing my deep work, perhaps my editing or creative work in the morning sort of nine till twelve, and then doing shallow work in the afternoon and then perhaps doing some rebound deep work sort of five or six pm as office quiet ands down.
And that's a real good kind of background structure that I've applied to my days and that really helps me to, you know, do that focused work that needs to happen and shape the day in a way that works better for me. And another sort of structure related point that I took from time Wise, which I think is a really really good one, is relating to you know, recognizing and accepting that the workday is finite. It's not possible to achieve the infinite numbers of number of things that
you would like to do. So one of the chaps in your book you talk about scheduling a highlight, So identifying a big or an important task that will be really satisfying to get done and scheduling it using my chronotype, scheduling during my peak energy time during the morning and really prioritizing that and then you know, at the end of the day you can look back and really feel
please that you've achieved that that highlight. And connecting in with that, I've certainly been trying to do more of the mono tasking and ordering the tasks on my to do list in a way that I don't move on to the next one until the current one is completed, because I think I'm certainly one of those people who has been guilty of thinking that I'm effectively multitasking, you know,
like a lot of people. I have a job that has lots of multiple competing priorities, but actually it's so satisfying to stick to one thing and resist the interruption to keep moving through the day. And then another one that I really love and that actually had been doing prior to reading. Time wise is relating to focus, and it's about using sound to get into a flow state.
So one of the things that I do is when I need to focus on deep work, such as editing or writing a picture, a creative brief, or perhaps I'm checking pages before they go to print, I use rain sounds as opposed to music, because obviously my work is very words based, so it's not so helpful to have lyrics going around. But I play rain sounds and have been doing that for such a long time now that my brain really associates that with getting into a focused
state and concentrating on a big task. And obviously it helps to tune out any background background noise. So that's something that I do. Even when it's pouring with rain outside and I'm inside listening to rain. Still I still proceed. But it's such a go to that I couldn't live without. And I think some of those things that we don't necessarily think about about how we can use our physical environment to create a state that's going to help us
to achieve our best work. That was a really eye opening thing for me when I was reading time wise.
Oh that's awesome. And finally enough, Yeah, there is a chapter on using music to almost get in to a work trats. But I heard a really interesting example recently.
A couple of weeks ago, I interviewed Brian Koppleman, who's the showrunner for Billion, and I'll be releasing that interview soon, and he was talking about when he writes scenes for Billions and also other TV shows and movies that he works on, he will write to a specific song and to kind of capture or bring to life a mood or an emotion that's pivot or pivotal to that scene, and quite often that song will actually make it into the Interbillions, which I found really interesting. I love that
as a process. Now for people that are wanting to connect with you in some way, is it or maybe they've got a great book idea, what is the best way to connect with you? And also the Penguin Submissions portal.
Yes, so our submissions process is set out on our website, so people can go to Penguin dot com dot au and it's all there. So definitely encourage people to do that. And I am also on LinkedIn as well if anyone would like to find me.
Fantastic Izzy, I have loved this chat. We've obviously had many chats and many many emails, but it's just been so cool to just take the time and hear all about what goes on behind the scenes. I'm just I'm so sure that listeners will find this so valuable, particularly those that have a book idea sitting in the back of their head and maybe they're feeling I'm a little bit more excited to go do something with that.
So thank you so much for your time.
I hope you.
Found this chat helpful if you've ever thought about writing a book or have just been curious about the process. Even though time Wise is my third book, I learned so much about the whole publishing process through working with the amazing team at Penguin, And if you're curious as to the end product that I created, you can get your hands on time wise wherever you get.
Your books from.
How I Work is produced by Inventing, with production support from Dead Set Studios.
The producer for this.
Episode Liam Riordan, and thank you tomt Nimba, who does the audio mix for every episode and makes everything sound so much better than it would have otherwise.
See you next time.