Getting creative with a time limit - the new life of ABC Radio breakfast host Sammy J

When being funny is your job, how can you turn it on like a tap? And by the way, you only have an hour set aside to prep then it'll be filmed tomorrow and airs on TV soon after. And before any of this has happened, you've had to wake up at three thirty am, pack yourself some lunch, and ride your bike to work and host two and a half hours of breakfast radio. This is the new life of Sammy Jane, who were used to seeing on stages around the world next to a puppet, a purple puppet

Well.

At the moment in my life, I've got a job which I've never had before, so that gives me some inbuilt structure in that I have to turn up to a workplace or I will be fired, and that helps. But the specific turning out time is the sole point. Because I'm working in breakfast radio. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. Started last year at twenty twenty, I started hosting the breakfast Radio show which goes from five point thirty in

That's right, thank you, yes, because those guests are always delightful to manage. So you're getting up a quarter to four, how then do you think about the back half of your day? Because you're not really wanting to be up until midnight doing stuff or writing. So how does it work when you clock off? So to speak from breakfast radio? But you still got all these other commitments took me through that.

I'll go really micro right now.

Like two hours ago, I fell asleep sitting up at my desk and woke myself by snoring, and I'd accidentally typed something on the keyboard, which we all been marveled at, like it was my subconscious.

The word was ft like a million ease. That's not regular, but that's I.

As to your other guests amount that, I'm assuming you've had some like high profile like big hitters Forbes rich List, and.

They all have got their shit together. They know what's going on. So I'm not going to be one of those skits. I've got more. I'm coming seeking for help and advice.

Really, last year, I basically to answer that question, I didn't have a good sense of my schedule, and I was still working off and at five o'clock on any day, which meant I've been going.

For thirteen hours.

And I've also got two young kids, and so it was just completely unsustainable. So this year I did come in as a sort of goal driven guy. Maybe I was like, Okay, what do I want to get out of this year? And really the main thing for me is I want to stop working it about two o'clock each day, because that.

Would mean I'll have done about eight or nine hours and at two o'clock.

Bearing in mind that's sort of my mentally, that's my five or six o'clock in the evening. So if I don't switch up down, I'm simply not going to have time to unwind or see people before I have to get to bed at eight or eight thirty each night.

So that's my approach to the day. Now.

It's very much a work in progress because there's always things to do. Well, there's always more you can do, of course in life, and so really trying to focus hat on what's the job I have to do today and when is enough?

So how do you clock off at two in the afternoon, because everybody else in the world is like, hang on, no, no, no, We've still got half a work day.

Well, there's a bit of management of expectations, I think, because I'm generally I've always pride of myself, I'm being

Yes, that's an interesting rule, so don't expect a response after two.

Which it's very specific to my job.

Like obviously, I think the challenge for most people who are working hard, like everyone in the world, is the nighttime routine I reckon.

Like until last year, I was a night owl.

I performed at night, I worked at night on off and wrote things at night, So it would be getting into bed at one o'clock or something that would be my challenge it's the opposite. Now I'm productive in the morning because that's my current job. I think it's slightly lonely in that sense that even if I'm functioning, or I'm around, or I've been to meetings at three or four o'clock in the afternoon, people just go, okay, Sam, you see, that's fine. But mentally it's really can become

And how have you trained yourself to go from a night owl to essentially a morning person?

Like any job, you do jump into it.

So I trained myself simply by sitting the alarm, and it was as brutal as any early rises. No, I mean three point thirty that as an alarm is almost a late night rather than morning.

That's how someone.

But you know, it's a body clock thing, and it actually I've adjusted to it pretty well.

I have to be really careful. I think about my I.

Never drink during the week, for example, because I'll just get a headache the next day and that sort of thing. And I try and ride my bike into work, which sounds like I'm some sort of tony appt alpha male, which is not me. If anyone is picturing that, I'm a skinny bird like chicken man like struggling my way to work. But it means that I've built in some exercise to the day, for example. So it's all these little practical things that I've managed to make it work.

Do you have routines at night to help, I guess, train yourself that hang on even though a lot of the world might be out or being social right now, I need to get to bed in order to have enough sleep to wake up at an ungodly hour.

I think in terms of how my week breakdowns, and this includes the nights. It's very much basics for me, which I've never had to get my head around as much in the past, and I do now because as I just said, like otherwise, I know that it'll you know, there's nothing worse than being on radio and feeling hungover or exhausted or miserable.

So for me, it's the regular exercise thing.

It is getting to bed on time, and I, you know, try and routine wise, I'll physically I'll go down, I'll close the door, I'll have a shower, and prepare my bag for the next day, really practical things that I know I'm not going to want to think about the next day. I'll put a banana in my bag for like all that sort of stuff and the things that I just don't want my brain space to be taken up with in the morning.

And also just making sure I'm prepared. So on radio, you know, each day.

It is a show, I'm interviewing lots of different people and that sort of thing, and trying to be across the basic stories that we're planning to do the next day, all those little things that.

Just take a bit of pressure off the following morning. But yeah, it's nice.

At least I feel like every second week I might get to the end and be exhausted or something didn't go right. But at least I feel like I have a better checklist now than I ever had of what variables exist, so I can go Last week, I had a bad one a man, for I was just like from behind the whole time, I was not quite present, and I got to the end of the week and I thought, Okay, what happened this week? Well, I didn't run a bike once any day. I've got a bit lazy with that, so that's one factor.

I think.

I did have a beer one night, so that wouldn't have helped little specific things. And I also moved house, which I realized, Oh yeah.

That's that's pretty stressful.

That's pretty big.

And I think it was someone else who pointed that out to me.

I was like, oh, this is a really hard week, and they're like, yeah, but you just did I think, don't. They say moving house is like one of the most stressful thing you do in life. So yes, yes, I was getting too focused on my little checklist without realizing there was the biggest thing at play.

That's right, too worried about packing that banana. So tell me more about this checklist. So is this like an actual checklist or a metaphorical checklist?

Tell me about it.

Well, it's metaphorically that it's just a mental one now. But I found it super handy and I think it's something I should have paid.

Far more attention to in the past.

I don't know if this is the appropriate stage to wine the clock back and man through in our check because I don't want to, you know, drag it down a time walk too soon. But my whole career in life has been a self appointed comedian. I've done live shows, and I think my primary skill and my primary work has always been doing live shows. And what I've been

But I look back now and go, yeah, I reckon.

That stress slash low level anxiety and things has always been bubbling away down. I could have been far more proactive in addressing that. And I think that's what this little checklist does for me.

Now I'm able to go.

There will always be some stressful weeks or weeks were just feeling down on yourself because you didn't achieve what you wanted to and so on, but I'm able to go.

Okay, well, yep, look you die.

Look at your drinking, look at your exercise, Look you're planning, and most importantly for me, look at what things you said yes to that you should not.

And I think that's a big hangover.

From being a self employed artist for fifteen years, because I spent my whole life training myself to say yes to absolutely everything, because it's a famine or feast thing.

When you're at you do have to take the work.

I'm suddenly in a position where I have two stable jobs with my radio and my TV work, and it's a real challenge to learn to say no to requests because basically I'm now at the point where capacity wise, as per the day I just described to you, if I say yes to a gig or a job or something, it's really taking time away from my family and my ability.

To to not die, which is a goal. Who's another goal on my checklist? Did I die today?

No?

I'm going all right.

It's been a successful day, like you know, set the filelow. So with that, this idea is saying this and saying no. I once heard someone say that the number one productivity tip that they could give to anyone and is to say no more often. And I want to know, for someone that has not been used to saying no, what have you learned about how to say no? Well?

Oh, that is a great question, and I'm still learning.

I think the phrase over committed is a great phrase to use, not just because it's easy to say, but it's actually completely truthful, and because I have a huge habit, Amantha of if someone says, you know, text me or emails and says what you do this, and I will spend twenty minutes composing the reply and giving really specific, detailed analysis and an essay on why I would love to but here's why I can't. But maybe next time get back to me. Like I've just lost more time

To be able to do that.

But equally, I have to remind myself back to what we were talking about about.

I have a family and I need to see them and leave time for so.

I think honesty is great, but also as far as the advice and learning about saying no, you don't.

Have to be a completely open book.

It's that you're allowed to have a bit of personal reasons as to why you don't want to do something, and if you're not just known as a general asshole, then you can expect people to understand. I think I would. Sometimes my mind will go to the worst case scenario where they think that I'm a monster for saying no to something, when actually they might just go fair enough, you can't do it, They'll move on with their day.

Yeah, it's so easy to overthink, isn't it. I do like the idea of delegating saying no. That is very helpful something I do because I say no a lot because I used to be a yes person and that just got me into chaos in very busy days. But I have a templated response for saying no for some of the more common requests that I get, and I find that for me, that takes the emotion out of it and it makes me feel less stressed about saying no.

They adjusted though we're throwing one little personal line at the top, or do you make a point of not doing that, because then you start getting creative about it.

Then I start falling into your problem of like taking so long to respond that I should.

Have just done the time of bus What are the buzzwords in your template?

So firstly acknowledge that I'm flattered that they would think of me. Like, for example, something I say no to a lot is I get a lot of pitches for people wanting to be on the podcast or pr folk wanting to get their clients on the show, And so I certainly thank them for thinking of how I work, because that's lovely. I give a reason, which is that the schedule's full, which it generally is a few months in advance, and then I'll wish them luck with whatever

Yeah, And I see I've got like emails right now and you box with flags on them because I wanted to give it a week before I said no, And you've just clarify for me that that's who's.

That helping like it's it's it hangs over me, hangs over them. It's it's no good.

And it's funny because I reckon the slow no comes from you almost want to make it look as if it was a really tough decision. Should I say yes, should I say no? I'm stewing over it for a week. That's how big a decision it is. But that's not helping anyone. Now. I read that when you're presenting radio you started standing up. Why are you doing that?

When I started the job startup last year, and I just had a view in my mind. ABC Radio is in Australia, it's very well known, it's very well trusted and respected by some, and so it's got a certain mature and you know, intelligent sort of aura, and in my head that the presenters I always listened to on the were just mature people who were sitting down and just talking maturely about things. And I tried that for the first week and I was listening back, I could

You're with Sammy Jay and it just wasn't me.

And then I discovered there's a button on the desk in the studio, which it's like an arrow up and down. I don't know when it told me about it, but I was like, oh, I pushed it at the whole desk,

Have more fun when I want to have more fun and when it's appropriate.

And for me, it's purely just tapping into I think, what I what I already do, which is standing on stage talking to people. And when I was sitting, I was not embodying or accessing any part of that part of me. But standing up feels just more like what I do.

Now. That's not saying that what I do is a complete crap, but at least it's authentic crap.

At least. And you are you standing right now as we're recording Should I?

Should I stand now for a while and see.

Let's let's do that and see if I see.

I did the same thing you just point.

I realized that I'm doing a business podcast with them, all I should I should, That's right, Okay.

You need to be very serious now. Now that's interesting about this idea of being more you, particularly when you're someone that is used to adopting a character or a persona. So with the radio work, what were the steps that you took, aside from pressing a button to raise a desk, to be more you and get out of that ABC presenter persona.

It's the biggest question I have for myself at the moment, because it's an ongoing thing and the job came up unexpct for me.

I was asked to fill in.

Briefly, I didn't know that there was soon be an opening and sort of thing as radio people come and going radio constantly, and so it'll be me on the way out at some point.

But when I was.

Offered the role, I really was completely unsure, Like it wasn't something I jumped in straight away. I really I did the whole full waiting to say yes or no. I made them as we just discussed, But because my whole career has been spent yet Sammy Jay is a nickname and a character name like I've used it as a fictional character and in a musical comedy duo with Randy the puppett I've used it as myself when I MC events and things.

But it's this changeable thing.

But on radio, I think there's a metaphorical contract where where you're expected to bring yourself there. You can't just be up pretending to be someone all day, and you have to bring a bit of yourself into it. And that's been a big learning curve for me getting comfortable with that, and I think I am now much further along than I was when I started in the job. But it all comes back to complete fear for me, as perhaps it does for everyone in any job you did.

I was afraid of being shown up to be stupid or or.

Arrogant, or vulnerable or all the things that we don't like about ourselves. And when you're speaking every morning, five days a week to hundreds of thousands of people, that fear is intense. But like any job, it's now something which I can switch on at five point thirty and talk and not be too worried about what's coming out

What is that feedback loop like for yourself? Do you have a proces for reviewing or analyzing or critiquing your performance on radio?

There is a very structured process for that. At ABC.

There's internal air checks they call them, where you all gather together and listening back and then as a team you work on the show, and you're always coming up with new segments or discussing guests and things. So that's there, and I sort of trust that process pretty well because I still feel like I'm very much learning, I'm still very much the new kids, So there's never been a note given to me where I haven't agreed with it.

That actually helpful.

There's a more blunt feedback tool which is called the ratings, and in fact, you know, they actually just came out like an hour ago, so I think there's a whole now, Like in the paper later today, I will be mentioned with regards to my ratings and things. But having been through the TV and live work, you get fairly used to the up and down all that stuff as well, So not as affected by that as I think some people thought I would be.

I think that's really interesting about the work that you do, that the feedback is so public, certainly with something as objective, if you like, as ratings, through to social media and the feedback loop there through all the work that you've been doing in your career. How have you learned not to let it just completely destroy you and self confidence? What are the strategies that you've learned over the years.

Gee, well, I mean I think back to the first like bad comedy review I get I got like years ago, and it does destroy you like anyone, likely in the normal workplace. Perhaps that's the equivalent of a workplace.

Review or something.

But having your name published in the newspapers, someone giving you two stars and saying, oh, it's just rubbish.

It can cripple you. But I think in the comedy and in the.

Arts or in general, they're the bits that make you, and they're the bits where and if you headed to any open mic comedy night or musicians night, you're going to find let's say ten performers in their early twenties, eight or nine of them will probably not continue that as a job. And I think part of that will be because of the feedback is the audience weren't kind to them more because they.

Had a bad review and it was a bit of fun.

But then they move on and get stable jobs, which I have so much respect for because I don't think we're built as humans to I don't really like the idea that we have to become hard in ourselves or become completely oblievi's to what people think in order to succeed, because I think that's just not a natural statement. We all want to be liked and we all want to be complimented rather than torn down. However, creatively, it took me a long time. I think success didn't come to

Out of your hands.

You're just trying to find the audience to share your sense of humor. And then to the extent that it is in your hands, I think that takes up ninety percent of your work because very much, for me, comedy has been a business and it's about really aggressively finding that audience and being clever about how you market yourself. And I don't say that with any synthesis and whatsoever. I'm just saying that most artists who have made a living have had to become by default business people in

That's why we edit things, but I probably won't edit that. So you make it sound really really simple, like don't try to expect that everyone will love you. Find your kind of crowd. But I imagine that that was a pretty hard lesson to learn, Like was there a turning point where you perhaps knew that intellectually but you then started to internalize that.

I think there was, and I think it was to do with maturity, As lame as that sounds, but I look back and my first gigs singing songs standing up

Hey, there, it's nearly time for a little ad break. But can I ask a favor of you? If you're enjoying how I work, I would be so grateful if you could hit pause on the show and pop into Apple podcasts or wherever you're listening to this from and leave a review. You can do this by scrolling to the bottom of the show notes and clinging on the stars or writing a comment. And aside from the warm, fuzzy feelings that this will give both you and me, it helps other people find out about how I work.

I think I've helped a lot of the moment with the weekly TV spot by two things, and that is why I write it with two co writers, so good friends, Chris but Donald and James Pender. So every Monday we get together online in different states and we talk about the news, we see what you know, what we find interesting, and what we find funny, and we throw things around.

To film it.

And so if I could take this week as an example, we're doing a Royal family yoga sketch and that was still being written while I was sitting in the makeup chair.

Like I was, there were talking through different moves like is in bred Corgi an appropriate yoga move? Who knows?

We'll find out that the regularity of that is so helpful, as I'm sure the listeners will appreciate. Like you know, there's nothing like a deadline, and you get to the point where you can't overthink it. Now I've had months before to write a show or we're going to show, and you know, still leave it to the final week. So that really helps. But I think, and I'm not the first person to say this, but just having something doubt is putting something on the page.

You can't edit a blank page.

And even if you write something that is just terrible, at least then you can look at it and ask yourself you think it's terrible and the instead about fixing it, So something is better than nothing.

I think always, what's collaboration been like with other writers and doing that virtually as opposed to face to face. How have you made virtual collaboration work for comedy writing?

Well, of course it came about just by necessity last year with COVID, So that was just something we were thrown into like everyone else. And it was tricky, and it's always tricky because, particularly comedy writing, to be in the same room and just to be able to know one of you has a line or burst do a performance, and there is such an energy and a rhythm to that that you cannot replicate on a screen. But we've learnt to get as close as we can. It certainly

What is the difference, do you think, because I find that a lot of our corporate clients at Inventium lamenting the fact that work will probably be some kind of hybrid mix where people work from home and work from the office and kind of split their time between the two. And they say, well, real, true collaboration can't really happen

I'm sort of disagreeing with myself, I guess in a way because, as I said, like some of our best work last year was done remotely. I think it's just more challenging because you do have to focus your mind and.

Your energy a little more. And I think it can all depend on the moment. Like right now.

Chatting to you, we're not in the same room, but I feel like this is a conversation which is based on words so I think it works perfectly. This it's it's if we're in the same room, it might almost affect us too much because where there's other cues and inputs that are mucking us up, you know, like.

For example, I'm wearing a man kin. He up, now that would distracting for it.

I want to co incident, so am I.

Put as far as from me as a comedy writer, being in the same room, there's just.

So much nuance. Even if you're pitching an idea. You might pitch an idea.

That is aligned that is not funny on the screen, not funny written on a page, but you need to see someone told physicalityly, for example, a yoga sketch if you're trying to come up with funny yoga moves.

But that's an example of this tangible thing. You can do it. We did do it.

But it's just hard, that's all. But I certainly also have been involved in you know, other business meetings or just chats where it's absolutely not affected in any way by the fact that you're on a screen. I would just argue that, yeah, it's I think I've learnt in practice that being in a room, it's right down to like you're in a room. Let's say there's a screen that's broken or something, or there's something on the floor that you will see at the same time and you

You closer together.

It's nothing to do with the work you're doing, but it's about just being more comfortable with each other.

So are there strategies that you've used or toyed around with to help improve virtual collaboration?

The really dull stuff, but the most important stuff is the punctuality thing. Because it's so easy online to say, oh, I'll be five minutes late, or just drop a message sorry, someone's at the door, all that sort of thing, and that can be so frustrating when you're trying to come together at the same time. And I'm as guilty as the next person. So I think this year, as writers, we're definitely trying to be far more punctual, which just

For each other.

I also, because I'm the script editor of the show, in that I have the final say on what words go to wear and everything. I'm trying to get better at drawing a line time wise on the conversations at times when we particularly as writers, there is always another idea that could be out there. It's never finished, it's never perfect. It ends up being whatever you did in the time you had. So I'm getting better at that's saying, Okay,

Great, you keep on working to make it better.

But I think that time structure for me is the key because I no longer live in the world I used to, which was I'm going to do a comedy festival show.

I've got three months to write it.

And I'll just mosey along at my own pace and i have a really reductive day, and then I'll have two days off and i'll have a sandwich and I'll get back to it. I don't have that luxury, and I think my writing is probably way better for it.

I want to ask about being funny, and how do you write your jokes and think about your jokes. I'm partly reluctant to because before we hit records, you're like, oh, I'm really this is fun doing a business podcast and not a humor or like comedy podcast. And I'm like, oh god, am I just about to ask you the exact same questions here asked on comedy podcasts.

A comedy podcast wouldn't ask you about how you write, you know, it would be are all about, you know.

Trying to be smart asses. Yeah, getting one ups on each other.

Because I'm really fascinated by the idea of how people can bring more levity and humor to work, particularly office work, where you don't necessarily think about that. So I feel like there's probably a lot that listeners can learn in terms of thinking about how you as a comedian. Right joke? So, can you tell me how do you write a joke? Are there certain ways, certain formulas or like go to tricks and stuff?

Well?

Well, okay, So I do feel like there are two questions here, because one is the workplace you would think, which is a whole different discussion. But I'll go first to my death creative side, since that's where the question ended in that that is the question you ask me, I should be from a politicians.

Look, it was probably like a triple Barreld.

Question, which yeah, no, but you're tricking that. I see what you're doing. You want me to do that? And there were okay.

So on the process of writing, sadly there is no simple answer because if there was, you know, we'd all be baking heaps of money from comedy and everyone would be doing it like it is hard and there's no consistent thing. But certainly for the weekly ABC TV spot that I do, I think, what is the world that would best reflect this? And who is the target that

A bit of there.

But he does press conferences in that style talking about federal politics and so there there are probably two targets. There's a little bit of a target of the Aussie macho sports culture that bubbles away, but eagerly it's still

The host in a sort of Kevin McLeod impression.

And we were talking about the Australian Budget House which the treasure was trying to build, so it was all about the flat rate, the flat tax rouf structure and the surplus room that couldn't be built and all this sort of stuff. So again Grand Designs was never the target of that joke. It was all within the world and using the language of that So I think that is as much as I can answer that question creatively.

I do want to get onto workplace humor, but I guess another way perhaps into understanding how you think about comedy. Let's just say I do a lot of keynote speaking, and I'm often thinking how can I inject more humor into this? So if I said, hey, Sammy, you just watch this ten minute section of this talk that I have to give to some big corporate and can you help me find some opportunities to inject humor? What would you be looking for? How would you be coaching me on that?

Oh? About fifteen thousand dollars? Sorry for me.

Comedy is always about surprise. It's about and Tim Ferguson writes about this in his book The Cheeky Monkey, which is all about sitcoms and comedy writing. But there's an argument that every time we laugh, it's basically a primeval sort of physical reaction. It's like we think we're about to die, but we're not so because so we laugh because it's a relief love, because something has broken in the matrix of what we expect. And that's been my

So I'm really thinking on my.

Feet here, But let's say you were presenting at a kitchen where conference, and I'm trying to think of what would rhyme with knife or forka matter if you were googling fork or knife or spoon.

Then you got me perfect.

You presently had a kitchen wear conference and you've got a very serious lde about the revenues and accounts that you're going through them, and then a picture of pig comes up and you go, oh, sorry, I was actually googling gifts for this, but.

I actually wrote pork his fk. Sorry, now that's lain.

However, However, then five minutes later another pig comes up. You're like, oh, sorry again, sorry, And that's the point people would laugh, because then they'll be like, oh, hang on, she's really doubling down here, like she's committing to the

And also using a callback strategy where you're going back to what you've introduced, got a laugh and sholve that come back to it to get that laugh.

Totally because you made the investments. Like it's like anything you want to like get the return.

You don't know, it's not a burden. If people laugh a little bit, you can milk it more.

But tell me how do you bring humor like into a staff meeting at ABC? That sounds so serious it is And well, it's all about the people you work with, of course, so I can you know my workplace here is.

It's pretty heightened in terms of it's all public. You know a lot of presenters who are having to deal with, particularly in the pandemics, really serious stuff, but it's also people who are passionate about their job. And any workplace that doesn't have laughter, I think has got a problem. Like the people humans laugh, and it's how we can and it's how you even in dire circumstances. It's how we unwind and blow off steam.

So for me, it's.

Always that the slight absurdities or someone will make a suggestion or a slip of the tongue and there's an obvious, unintended repercussion that you could sort of bring up. But the comedy involves risk, that's the thing. It involves you being a bit vulnerable and putting yourself out there. My first and really only like office wide workplace prank of joke here was we had the security passes all switched out at ABC because of part of it like a

But it gets so annoyed about being on the wrong.

It was like, is this guy a big face in my and so I saw that, and I think it was like fourth th in the morning, so I still was in my pre banana sort of don't care face, but I just took a big photo of my face and just sent it back to everyone at the ABC with the hashtag I Stand with Anthony, who was the name of this guy. And I must have had more attention and comments from that from stuff that I hate they have some actual work because because it was like

But it's funny, So just do it. I think you have to.

It's the bit of you that stops out of fear. Back to what I was saying about fear some time ago, it's that's the bit you just have to take a breath and go, look, you know what's the worst it can happen?

You know, how do you get over that fear of a joke failing?

Well, you fail enough that you just know that you survived. I think that's it.

It's it's back to the early gigs for me, where you know that I've done bad gigs. They'll do bad ones in future, but you know it's not the end of the world, and you know that at any given moment there are so many worst things happening in the world that someone not laughing at a crappy comedian's joke that you wake up the next day and your crack on. And I think the benefit of having a slight profile

Such a great way of looking at it. Now, Sammie, I am going to finish on time because I'm just going to ask you one more question, and that is for people that want to consume more of what you're doing, what are the best ways for listeners to do that if they.

Would like to listen to me five point thirty in the morning Melbourne time and dreg In might I have some listeners in Albuquerque in New Mexico, which is exciting. So it's wherever you may be five thirty am Melbourne time Monday to Friday can tune into the radio show, and that you can chine into that via the ABC website. So if you search for Sammy Joe ABC Radio, you'll find the official website and you can stream that from anywhere as to my comedy sketches. You can find those

Listen to the radio.

I just completely lost, like forgot the basic analog methods of consuming me Andmantha. But you can listen to the radio as well or TV. But online is really, let's be honest, that's where it's at.

That is where it's at. Sammy. I've loved chatting to you. This has just been an absolute delight. I wish you didn't have a staff meeting, but you do, and you need to get to that long time like a loser, that's right, You've got like a job and stuff to do. So Sammie, thank you so much for your time. I've just love chatting to you.

Thank you, Amantha. It's a genuine pleasure.

As I said, it's in the comedy world, it's it's not often you sort of just get to talk through your actual sort of you know work.

That is it for today's show. If you are enjoying How I Work, you might want to hit subscribe if you haven't already, because next week on the show, I have the CEO of car Sales, Cameron McIntyre, and we're going to be talking about how he keeps composed and cool under the pressure of leading a four point five billion dollar business. So hit subscribe and you will be alerted as to when new episodes drop. How I Work is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios.