Instead of beginning the relationship with a prospective client by presenting a deck on why your agency is so amazing and why you should be invited to pitch, Blair encourages us to have the “Probative Conversation” from his Four Conversations sales model. LINKS "There Is No Credentials Meeting" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise" 2Bobs episode The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise book by Blair Enns...
Jun 18, 2025•31 min•Ep. 218
When it comes to positioning, David is still seeing creative firms failing to answer three essential questions in the proper sequence: category, specialization, and then secondary differentiators (or qualifying characteristics).
Jun 04, 2025•27 min•Ep. 217
Blair sees high price anchors everywhere—from buying a suit to ordering a burger. So what factors should creative firms keep in mind as they use anchoring in selling their service options? And when is the best time to present the anchor option within the sales conversation? Links “Anchor High” by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com
May 21, 2025•30 min•Ep. 216
Following up on the recent episode on whether you should be considering that offer to sell your firm, David provides four questions to get answered, two documents to sign, and a short list of materials that can help you take the lead in early conversations with a buyer. LINKS ”Should You Entertain That Acquisition Offer?”
May 07, 2025•24 min•Ep. 215
The more unexpected the metaphor, the more information it carries. Blair has four less-obvious metaphors to give you access to entire playbooks in just four words when selling your expertise. LINKS "The Power of a Metaphor" written by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com
Apr 23, 2025•26 min•Ep. 214
Ignoring any unexpected offers to buy your business that might come your way is not in your best interest. But neither is dating all opportunities in desperation. David has four things principals should consider, whether or not you are actively looking to sell your firm. Links “Should You Entertain That Offer?” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com 2Bobs London Meet-up on Thursday 8 May, 2025 at 2pm...
Apr 09, 2025•25 min•Ep. 213
Your clients are far more likely to talk to each other when you have vertical positioning. Blair has observed both good and bad things arising from this. Links “How to Ask for Referrals” 2Bobs episode
Mar 26, 2025•24 min•Ep. 212
As we are hearing about more firms that are closing during these challenging times, David offers some guidance to help cut through the confusion when our worst fears in our business become reality. Links "Facing an Existential Crisis" article by David for punctuation.com Rory Sutherland's LinkedIn post David's LinkedIn post...
Mar 12, 2025•29 min•Ep. 211
As Blair continues to encourage expert practice owners to price the client and not the service, he and David discuss the pros and cons of four levels of pricing authority they should be thinking about within their firm, instead of just assuming pricing responsibility automatically defaults to a specific role or job title. Links “Who Should Set Prices In Your Firm?” written by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com...
Feb 26, 2025•41 min•Ep. 210
David thinks principals should build their firms as if they were going to sell it while Blair’s advice is to run it as if you’ll never sell it. Being aware of options as your firm matures can give you the leverage you might need in negotiations. Links “Ten Reasons Firms Are Bought” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com
Feb 12, 2025•33 min•Ep. 209
Through the process of writing his latest book, Blair's thinking has evolved on whether or not firms should resist the urge to productize their services as they work to creatively meet the unique needs of each client.
Jan 29, 2025•36 min•Ep. 208
In Blair's experience, the most common reason a lead generation plan doesn’t get executed is it doesn’t recognize and leverage the strengths or motivations of the individuals executing. LINKS "The Best Lead Generation Plan" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation" 2Bobs episode...
Jan 15, 2025•25 min•Ep. 207
David describes the differences in what kind of people principals should hire during the early stage of their creative firm’s development when it’s all about “what we can afford,” the middle stage when it’s about “what we need,” and then the later days of an agency when it’s about “what we can learn.” LINKS “How Your Hiring Strategies Change” by David C. Baker for punctuation.com “The Problem of Standards” by David Maister...
Jan 01, 2025•26 min•Ep. 206
Blair borrows a concept from finance and fitness to help creative agencies find the balance between low risk and high risk pricing strategies.
Dec 18, 2024•26 min•Ep. 205
Blair interviews David about his new book, Selling Your Professional Services Firm: A Primer . LINKS Buy a copy of David's new book from him directly. Buy David's new book and audiobook on Amazon.
Dec 04, 2024•41 min•Ep. 204
Blair interviews David on his recent article about the idea that expertise does involve supplying answers, eventually, but mainly expertise is about asking the right questions, first, and then offering a few answers after the truth surfaces. Links “Expertise Is Mainly About Asking Great Questions” by David C. Baker on Punctuation.com
Nov 20, 2024•24 min•Ep. 203
Blair shares how to determine whether or not we are the advantaged player the “polite battle for control” within the game of sales, and how we can get the odds of winning the sale to be more in our favor. Links “Assume an Advantaged Player” article by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com
Nov 06, 2024•22 min•Ep. 202
David interviews Blair about his new book , which lays out his proven framework B2B service providers can use to increase closing ratios and average proposal values. Links Order The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise by Blair Enns
Oct 23, 2024•31 min•Ep. 201
Blair and David reminisce about their podcasting journey since Blair first pitched the 2Bobs idea to David back in 2016, sharing what they've learned along the way, and what they might like to try with the podcast in the future.
Oct 09, 2024•30 min•Ep. 200
David unpacks six principles that can help creative firms benefit from delivering strategic guidance through their account managers. LINKS "Account Managers and Strategy" by David C. Baker at punctuation.com
Sep 25, 2024•24 min•Ep. 199
Blair sees four common behaviors when business owners are looking to get deals moving in times of economic decline, stagnation, or uncertainty that end up doing long term harm to their positioning and pricing. LINKS "Four Ways to Commodify Your Offering" by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com "Phase Your Client Engagements" 2Bobs episode...
Sep 11, 2024•30 min•Ep. 198
Every few years we’re told that we need to move on from using email newsletters as a part of our marketing platform. And David says that advice has always been wrong. Links David’s article on Punctuation.com (subscribe to his newsletter at the bottom of the page) “Email is the Most Consistent, Reliable Marketing Channel on the Web and I Can Prove It” by Rand Fishkin...
Aug 28, 2024•30 min•Ep. 197
David provides some clear examples of what is required for a firm to be successful at offering one service for many different verticals. Links “Strengthening a Weak Horizontal Positioning” by David C. Baker on punctuation.com
Aug 14, 2024•23 min•Ep. 196
Given these uncertain economic times we are in right now, Blair is asking if some creative firms might need to rethink the market they serve, looking at whether their positioning might be too broad, too narrow, or just wrong. LINKS "The Target Is Not the Market" by Blair Enns on winwithoutpitching.com
Jul 31, 2024•32 min•Ep. 195
David shares his decision-making framework that will help agency principals make better decisions during chaotic times like these. LINKS “Leading in a Chaotic World” article by David C. Baker on Punctuation.com
Jul 17, 2024•29 min•Ep. 194
Pricing is a prison cell of our own making. And it’s cultural. Blair has come up with a series of prompts as a creative exercise to help us all move into a realm of higher pricing. Links “Creating a Culture of Premium Pricing” by Blair Enns at WinWithoutPitching.com “Have we Hit Peak Strategy?” “Be the Client You Want to See in the World”...
Jul 03, 2024•31 min•Ep. 193
David wants agency principals to develop new business plans which delivers more new leads with less labor so their organizations can have more controllable growth, as well as increasing their likelihood for a successful exit when that time comes. Links 2Bobs episode: “The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation” NY Times article: “How a Self-Published Book Broke ‘All the Rules’ and Became a Best Seller”...
Jun 19, 2024•27 min•Ep. 192
Blair thinks too many design firms and other service providers are trying too hard to raise prices by presenting themselves as more “strategic.” Both he and David see these agencies losing more and more work to competitors moving to off-shore teams and AI centered services. Links Blair’s “What Is Strategy?” episode of the Ditching Hourly podcast with Jonathan Stark
Jun 05, 2024•24 min•Ep. 191
David definitely doesn’t want anyone to be like tech bros, but he has recognized a few things creative agencies might be able to learn from them.
May 22, 2024•21 min•Ep. 190
Blair has five steps creative agency leaders can take to turn their account managers, project managers, developers, engineers, and advisors into a source of instant scale to their sales efforts. LINKS “ Turning Your Delivery Team Into a Sales Team ” article by Blair on WinWithoutPitching.com
May 08, 2024•30 min•Ep. 189
