"Tote Bags" w/ Doreen St. Félix

Hey everybody, it's say I'm here with a quick little announcement, and that is that we are doing Stridia Lab live back in New York City on Wednesday, April sixteenth at the Bellhouse. Couldn't be more excited. It's a special editions we're calling it Lesbio Lab, and we're discussing lesbian topics with some of our incredible guests, including Sydney Washington, Andrew Longshu, and Natalie Rodter Lateman. So the lineups to die for. I haven't been back in New York in a few months,

Wow, you're up here and you say those words.

I mean, can you believe it live from New York City?

Even for anyone who doesn't know. I mean, people don't realize because it comes out once a week. People don't know that we haven't been together in studio in like four months at this point. Well, when were you in La? Don't fact check me. It's been a while. I'm sorry to debunk you. Okay, we were in La together in February. It's now April that's what five months? Close, close, that's almost five months. If you're round up, that's five months.

Different because when we were there, we're still like, we're not like home.

I'll be the first to say it. These days, one month feels like a year. Oh my gosh, whatever. They care, But to me there, that's true. No, it actually is true.

I literally like, what is going on at all times?

I know? Can we we have to debut your big theory about turning thirty versus twenty sixteen on main on the main feed? Okay, is this the time for this is the time? Okay, go okay.

Ever since literally the day I turned thirty, I have had seemingly one health issue after the next. And that has been five years of consistently like being like, Okay, well this is gonna be my year. Something horrible happens.

Yeah, And then that's like.

How in twenty sixteen when Trump was elected, You're like, Okay, this is the worst thing that's ever going to happen, and then horrible things kept happening after that in a way that you're like, oh, I'm actually just at the beginning of a free fall, and I don't know where I'm going to land.

This is one of your most genius theories that twenty sixteen is when America turned thirty.

And it was also one of those things where I didn't want to believe it because I don't want to know most people that's like, oh, blurg, I'm thirty and my back hurts.

Yeah, like the American populist during the Pussy March or Women's March. Sorry, sorry about it. I just thought pussy, Yeah, don't you think that. Sorry not to be anti woman. No, No, the Women's March was America collectively being like blurg. It was a.

Blurg, and it was like I was thirty now and now, and then it just kept and now they're like fuck, I'm thirty now.

Like it's like yeah, totally.

They just keep the suffering keeps happening, and I don't know where we're going to land forty. But did you come out like I do have a fantasy that thirty is like a transitional I completely agree where you're losing your youth slowly, but then you do settle.

I think forties, as I've always said. One time, I read an Amy Polar quote that I think was fake and AI generated, but it really stuck with me.

You have to you have to take away the authenticity from the meaning that gave you.

I can. It's sort of like it's spiritually true to me. And I've brought it up many times on this podcast. If you felt it, it's true. So she said, you know, your twenties are for figuring out what you're not, your thirties are for figuring out what you are, and then in your forties you say this is who I am. Well, and so I think that America will hit forty soon. Hopefully, you have to hope it'll be a kind of jut appatoel.

Based on the time that it's taken for us to turn thirty. I don't know we'll be alive.

Yeah, no, it definitely will be hundreds of years. Unfortunately, we won't be alive anymore.

Yeah, but that's too okay.

Our children will be alive. We're probably not gonna have kids that come on, you know, it's funny, nephew, Oh my god, that's true. O. Niece and nephews will be absolutely eighty yeah, they'll be eighty yeah. Do you think our nieces and nephews will like make a difference.

Sure.

I was thinking about this recently. I was like, actually with my niece yesterday, and I was like, what are your politics going to be when you grow up? There's no way to know, There's.

No way to know, you have you can guess a little bit based on you know, socioeconomic backg Right, she is.

A white girl growing up in Brooklyn. That could go either way. What if she's part of the downtown scene.

You mean she's the news, the new Ault, right, Well, you have to almost respect.

That then totally. No, I would definitely be supportive if she was the new Dasha.

I'd be like, damn, she's kind of yeah cool.

Because I also at that point I would be so old that I wouldn't really know the ins and outs of the debates. I would just be like, she has a podcast, that's fun.

It's easier for me to think to fantasize about what their politics will be than it is for me to fantasize about what their view of our politics will be. Oh yeah, that's what really scares me is them being like, oh, you actually believe in this?

You know what they're gonna think about us. It's like when we watch a documentary about gay New York in like the eighties, and then there's like some old guy that's still wearing a leather choker. That's gonna be us.

Yeah, it's gonna hurt. Yeah, but that's okay. This is okay. I have two things I want to talk about.

Okay, but we have to bring in our guest. Yes, please do the honor. You know what. Actually, I'm about to get rid for this. I'm about to do something so humiliating, which is that I forgot to ask before the pod if it's Saint Felix or Salt Felik's because I've heard both.

Or two.

It's the second.

And I knew you were going to bring that up.

Okay, So I because I have said for years, I've said, say Felix and then sorry, but your boss David Remnick on air said Felix, and I said this man, say please welcome Duren San Felip's Hello, Hi, what's up?

Wait?

So you knew I was going to bring it up.

Yeah, okay, Because here's the thing. You have a French last name. I have it through slavery of course, and colonization, and it's like you're in America, so you anglicize it all the time to make it easier for people. And then you go to college and you learn you're supposed to reclaim your ancestry, but it's like too late to get people to start pronouncing your name the right way.

Oh, interesting, that's interesting. You never know which to get. How militants she's bringing a center left energy. This is happening.

I have noticed with Rihanna where people are like, well, actually it's Rihanna, but then it has but actually everyone's called her Rihanna forever. But now there's like this back and forth where now there's no way to say it right because everyone's like mad at the other half.

Because Rihanna sounds like the woke way to pronounce. You're like soft a yes, sounds midwestern exactly Rihanna.

Rihanna sounds and then.

You do Rhianna in your head, and then you're mad.

Yeah, don't go down that road.

I find that interesting. I was going to say, okay, now.

You have two things, say well, and now during is part of.

This and you're part of this, and that adds more pressure to it because they were sort of intro bits in my mind where they're not very good.

Let's start there one.

I guess I just want to come up and say I'm being targeted and my phone is dying so fast. As of yesterday, I have left the hotel room and I'm at fifty percent. What they do, that's what they do.

And now with the tariffs, your next phone's going to cause approximately five thousand dollars. So get ready, bitch, I'm scared. Okay.

The next topic is the I think I thought the Midwest trending thing was going to be over.

I thought that was sort of the Midwest was trending, the Midwest trending traveling.

Okay, I don't know if they wereright about that, New Yorker, but the Midwest, the Midwest is trending, and and before.

That, Ireland was trending. Yeah, which I can I can.

Really speak on.

Yeah, but now I feel like with Bonnie Bear having a new album, I actually think the West is continuing to trend. Yeah, and in a way where I'm like, wait, is this ever gonna Like I'm like confused by the Midwest trending and I don't know how to interact with it.

Duran, what do you think?

What do I think about the Midwest trending? What's fascinating because there's still so much I think debate about where the Midwest begins and where men's right. And then there's certain people like Chapel or Bony Bear who are like the saints of that idea. But it's like the Chicago question.

Yes, the Chicago question.

Is Chicago Midwest or not? I think? But I would so much rather debate this than like the Coastal Wars. You know, that was very like Obama era.

Yes, right, you're absolutely right. Obama era was New York versus LA, and Trump era is the Midwest Chicago like the extent.

Well, that's a really good point because the Midwest trending is like a town in Minnesota, like the idea of like riding a four wheeler on a farm, like exactly in a thermal whatever Rosen Island.

Yeah, for me growing up, that's what I thought the Midwest was you grew up in New York, right, I did. I grew up in Brooklyn and South.

Are you starstruck?

So so what are your politics now?

Study black flash?

Wow, I don't know why that hit me.

Okay, you know what's happening? Yeah, go okay.

So I remember I moved around a lot as a kid, and I remember like when I moved to Virginia, so my dad had gone to Duke and so he had like Duke gear, and so when we moved to Virginia, that's like much closer to North Carolina.

Obviously, don't bring up white lotus challenge.

But I saw like people in Duke merch and I was like, oh my god, like you know what Duke is. Like no one in Michigan or Indiana knew what they knew what it was, but they didn't like talk about it ever. Yeah, And so then like there's something happening here where I'm like, wait, you're from.

Brooklyn, And I'm like, right, I'm back. I mean.

I know that place for like a long time, like there's a.

Big part of my gosh. So I'm sort of realizing that.

Yeah, but you know, I don't identify with the native New Yorker mythology.

Really talk about that.

Well, because I grew up past the last stop on the L train, so I went to Manhattan maybe like every eight months. It was just not a part of my world at all. I feel like I grew up like in a strip mall suburb. That's what that part of Brooklyn is like. Sure, yeah, it's like weird Long Island, Like there was this really big park where the Mafia was like just sort of like ending its rain when I was a kid, and it's.

Like because you were born, they were like, we can't kill anymore.

I want to be good.

But it was this interesting time where like white flight was causing like a huge part of the population to leave, and then all these like black and also South Asian families were moving into Brooklyn and kind of like reshaping the space, like the literal space in their identity, and so there.

Was more local culture like New York New York Saturday Night exactly.

It's like New York, Like New York City felt as far to me as it might have felt to you.

Sure interesting, Yeah, I mean that is true. There was a very brief period in my life, as everyone knows where I live in New Jersey suburbs, of course, and I was technically speaking like forty five minutes from the city, but it was not something I considered home by any means. It's probably my cosmopolitan vie.

Do you think New Jersey will be trending.

Next this isn't it? I actually don't because I think New Jersey I think.

It trended in like two thousand eight. I think there was there was the indie rock.

It's also before that Bruce Springston. I think Bruce Springsteen trended too hard at his peak. And I think, like I also think there was something around Jersey Shore, Teresa Judais, like all these sort of like trashy New Jersey legends that actually became so big that it made people uncomfortable.

Yeah, but that changes so quickly. The fact that it is loaded, means it's coming back soon.

So maybe it'll come back in like the twenty thirties.

Well, it is like if we're doing Y two K, it's like just around the corner.

And also a lot of these figures are you know, like the situation for example, Yeah, who I tend to keep up with? Oh okay, he's sober now, And I feel like that fits into the whole like sober fascism thing that's happening with people.

What's that?

Well, people are just so intense and it's a morality thing.

Now I've I haven't heard it like quit so plainly, like.

You're not put it pretty offensively, I.

Guess, I mean because I know, yeah I have. I've like picked up on this on.

The internet where it's like a sober culture is like hard right now, Well.

There were steps. First was Cali sober, which was that you didn't drink alcohol, but you did every other drug known to man. Yeah, and now people are becoming addicted to sobriety, I think, And it's like becoming the entirety of their identity, don't.

You think there's also like a to bring it to a straight lab space gendered dynamic of like the feminine to be very essentialist. The feminine part of that is like mocktail culture, yes, and like mocktails being seventeen dollars and it's like Celery shrub and celt or whatever. And then the masculine side is like Huberman was that his name? The podcast the like Stanford podcast health Guy. Oh god, you guys.

Are my only podcast.

I don't know any but like it, like basically like people that are like almost like manisphere level like work out, take care of your body, raw meats, solar anus. Yes, so those are the two and which and I guess both of those are eclipsing the previous notion of sobriety, which was like aa sobriety right, Yeah, it's almost like being an alcoholic is beside the point when sobriety is a is a fascist lifestyle. That's such.

That's exactly what the pivot is because.

Yeah, it's no longer part of an addiction narrative, right WHOA.

Like for so many people, it's not necessarily that they had to overcome a dependency on alcoholics probably are not alcoholics. You do have to reach the calm out standard alcohol. Yeah, you got to earn it you know what I mean, and you know what the difference.

Okay, So first of all, it's good that people are sober, good for them. But there's also another dark element to all this, which is like, sobriety became commodified that so when something becomes commodified, you need more and more people to engage in it. The first round of people are actual recovering alcoholics who are the let's say target market. There's only a limited amount of those, so then you're going to other people, and now you have to find

I was listening to this podcast with a fitness guy on it, uh huh, which was random, and he got so uptight as soon as alcohol was mentioned, and like he was being like, so chill generally, and then as soon ascohol is brought up, he was like, I.

Never touched that stuff.

That stuff is horrible if you want to actually make games. And I was like, I hate this mindset, like it's like not everything has to be productive and perfection.

And also, I mean, I guess the other side of this is this idea that like all of your productivity is in making your body better. Yes, but that's like an actual moral work that you're doing by avoiding any kind of vice, as if you know, eating eight hundred calories a day and like hitting your protein macros isn't also advice. Yeah, and it's like really disturbing and upsetting

I know, the prison of optimization is really is really real, and it goes beyond any kind of like alcohol or anything. It's just like you have to accept that social life means sacrificing some part of your personal preferences for the group exactly, for anyone listening. We're now past talking about alcohol. I'm not implying people that don't drink me to suck it up and drink. Well.

It's yeah, we're talking about like body cause I feel like in gay world specifically, there's like that thing of like you like sexual you hang out people who are kind of your body type. But then there's this thing of like, well, but I want to hang out the people I get along with, and that those two don't necessarily.

But they're on G. Yeah, I want to hang out with my friends, but they're on G. So it is it's the famous problem. It's a really confusing issue. Yeah, no, it'sir and they're sort of like what are you doing? Like why are you eating that?

Like we're hanging out right exactly.

And it's like this weird thing that is in the way they're also also.

It's like everyone has these friends where you're like, okay, time to hang out here we fucking go like what is it going to be this time? Like, oh, you're you know, you're like fasting this week because you have this thing You're like not you know, you're you're not avoiding the sea train because you're at your horoscope Like.

Yeah, yeah, it's weird. And also it's such a it's an in your thirties thing. Yeah everyone right, I just turned thirty three. I mean you really roasted us two ago at that show.

George, Oh my god, yes, yes, yes, please place you can break the foork wall show.

Yeah, Jesus here Jesus. Do you guys do Jesus.

I grew up with more religion than you did.

Probably you didn't have very much religion.

I mean, I'm always like, okay, here's my thing with religion, because it was it was just religion was never traumatizing for me, Like it was always so casual and just like part of our culture, like I'm going to church for Easter, but I have not given any thought to what that means more broadly, or like how I feel about you, Like it just is like not a not something I never felt that like rub up against, like being gay or like anything. Like. It was just very casual.

How do you feel that's interesting? I there was a time in my life where you know, I became a lapsed Catholic, which means I was like.

A staunch atheist. I was like Richard Dawkins level in college. But you have to go through that phase.

You do, because you're just like rebelling as you do with anything else. And then after a while, I think I moved to a neighborhood with a lot of church ladies in it, and they would just wake up on Sunday looking so fab fascinator on, you know, just like matching all together, like walking really slow down the sidewalk. It was their runway. And it's like, I'm okay with this. Yeah, you know, the oppression, the repression not great. Yeah, It's

Totally just got to get there.

I've actually only ripen them once, but you know what I'm referencing, Yes, So I'm just kind of like people have their things at this point, and I'm willing to kind of have a more like micro vision of what it is that religion does for people as opposed to having the like haranguing you know, this.

Is I feel the same. Course, then sometimes you're reminded. It's like you can say that and then you're and then you hear some story of someone who is like I don't know, sent to convergent therapy or like oh god, I write right, of course that's bad.

Religion is a lot like YouTube, and of course it's anyone should use it.

It's fun, but it's like it does radicalize people. Twenty sixteen was America Turning thirty. A religion is a lot like YouTube. Should we do our first segment?

Sorry, yeah, let's do it.

Our first segment is called straight Shooters, and in this segment we ask you a series of rapid fire questions to gauge your familiarity familiarity with in complicity and straight culture. The one it's just one thing or another thing, and you have to choose one, and you have to go with your gut. And the one rule is you can't ask any follow up questions about how the game works.

Wow, this is very strange.

Okay, Duren gin or aquamarine.

Aquamarine women, Right, that was a follow up Question's so word deducting points Durin women in Space or Numi Rapace.

Women in Space. Okay, but not for the reason you think. All right, I'm this.

Lord's Big comeback. Or Orange is the new Black, Oh.

Oh oh, or just the new flat shout out to Netflix, Russian Dressing or American Express Oh Russian dressing.

Okay, being a New York Times bestseller, or having committed crimes against a bank teller.

Oh oh, having committed crimes against the bank.

Teller starting a trade war? Or what was I made for?

What was I made for?

Okay? Ai slop or gay guy flop.

Gay guy flop?

Yeah yeah, okay, military spending or Jupiter ascending.

Jupiter ascending, Jupiter ascending?

Wow? Are you Jupiter ascending? Stand?

I don't know?

Was that the yes? Okay? What so are we doing our new grading system? Oh? Okay, so durine to fill you in. For years we rated guests from a scale of zero to one thousand doves, named after the Lady Gaga song one thousand Doves. But we recently.

Decided, what do zero one thousand blades of grasses of grass?

Okay, we can do our new ranking.

Well, then I'm gonna go ahead and say eight hundred and sixty two blades of grass.

Wow, good Jo, that's a really high. That's a really good score.

I felt like there was a sense of wonder yay. I liked the confusion. That felt nice.

You had a charisma and an on camera sort of charm that I think many people don't.

It's funny because I have such anxiety about being on camera. Really, the whole point of being a writer, So you can't don't have to be seen. I don't want to be seen. You know how people want to be.

Seen that yeah, I wish I didn't want to see. Sometimes you have to remember to put substance behind it.

Totally. No, it's I have to put a little note in my phone at substance.

Don't forget substance, have something else.

I have a new idea. Uh oh, okay, get ready. This is a new concept that I'm inventing.

I'm not ready. I just want to say, okay.

So obviously the dream is for everything you do to have substance. In today's fast paced media ecosystem, that's not sustainable. Right. Let's say you're a an LGBTQ plus creator. You know you're gonna have some things that are your body of work and some things that are like Instagram, Reils promo, whatever.

Wow, you're at least like you're you have like a two week band.

Yes, yeah, like I think so maybe it's like okay.

Okay, but substance Okay, I'm trying to think, like in the in the comedy sphere, so this would be like the thing, a thing that is actually like comedic has a point of.

View rather than catering to the algorithm.

Not catering algorithm, and not just like a picture. Or is it not that I can't tell what is more meaningful?

Honestly, I'm even like, Okay, let's say you're a is all digital content substanceless to begin with? I think yes.

I think anytime you're looking for fandom in the in the social media verse, which is what most people are doing now, it's substanceless. I think the only pure social media was when it was posting pics for your friends. Yeah, the washed out picks and two us, Yes, totally exactly.

But are we being resistant to the state of things?

Well, yeah, obviously conservatives are even.

Were my hat?

I mean to say, we are not like digital natives, right, yeah, but if you're a fifteen year old, imagine having this conversation. Yeah, they're like smart luod ites whatever, who are like the internet is bad for you. But there are other people who don't have like a value value system, or they don't apply value to the Internet because it is what it is. It's a sky.

Everything. We can't make technologically determinists. Okay, we can't. We can't say all social media. It can't be based on the medium, I guess is what you're saying.

But we can say that if you do two sponsored posts in a row, I'm actually not going to like the second because at that point I need something.

If you're doing a sponsored post that's not spreading positivity, that is doing ad copy.

If you're being like, please comment on my sponsored post so it gets more engagement, so I get I need ten percent. Yeah, okay, Well, I'm glad that's covered.

Maybe we should as a blanket say just like sixty forty sixty and we're still working on defining what and we're still working but the golden ratio they call it sixty forty. Yeah, okay, I think that's great. Doreen. Yes, what is your straight topic and what do you think is straight about it?

Okay? My straight topic is the toe bag?

Which one?

Before I say which one?

Okay?

Okay, I do want to shout out Amelia Petrarca. Oh, yes, Chapera, she was great, and she last year wrote this. I think you could call it like a treatise against the flaccid tote bag.

What I'm scared think about it.

You have a toe bag, it's on your shoulder. It should have things in it, right, Like the whole point of a toe bag is like I can't wear like my real bag right now. I'm also not gonna wear a backpack because I'm an adult. But I have like a lot of things with me, you know, like I have my tampons, I have my wallet, I have a bottle of water, I have a chopp salad. All this stuff in my toe bag and it signals life, right.

Oh yeah.

So the point of the toe back is not actually, to me, the surface of the toe back, So it says it's about the fact that you're like a person on the go, like you're a little harried, you're you're a messy, buond person and you just need to throw everything in the bag, right yeah.

Yeah.

And so when people carry a particular tote bag from a particular magazine, per se and there's nothing in it, to me, I'm like, that's like that that's like the straightness.

In it right, yeah, because you're just signaling you're not using it as a bag, You're using it as a graphic tea exactly. Yeah, yeah, no that yeah, And then it's you know what it is, the bag is wearing you.

You're not working exactly, and you're supposed to wear a bag totally.

You know.

Yeah, people don't know this anymore, are you guys? eBay people?

You know? Here's the thing. Thank you for asking first of all and giving me the platform to answer. I want so badly to.

Be an eBay person and everyone can be.

I My biggest shame is how I've had some successes with vintage shopping, but it's not in me, Like it stresses me out so much. I will make an amazing vintage purchase once a year and it will be all I talk about for months. As you know, yeah, are you an eBay person? It's like the idea that I would find a perfect leather jacket on eBay Like that seems to me more less likely of me becoming president.

Well it's well, say I order it, it comes to my house, I put it on, it doesn't fit.

Then what then I just have this jacket?

No?

Then I'm not all you basically this is a lifestyle though like this, the lifestyle of constant ordering and returning.

Yeah, is like to me, return I bought when I all right, take my special. Last week I bought three shirts, none of which I ended up wearing. They are now in a bag and I have to return all three of them, and I can feel the clock ticking. Honey, I am not making plans to keep those shirts.

But once you like permit yourself to return things that you buy online, like everything changes total Because and that happened for me last Wow, I had this moment where I was like, I'm actually going to get my money back. Wow, and I've reclaimed my time, everything, my power. It was amazing.

That's so amazing.

The reason why I brought it up is because one thing I love doing. I'm actually not shopping right now because it's the problem, but I love getting like old bags on eBay because the thing about a bag is like you actually really want it to be worn. You want it to stretch, be elastic, to be kind of weather.

Like purse, like a like a nice like a bag, not.

A r Metz bag. Not yet rebe If this podcast goes well, yeah, but that's it just relates to what I'm thinking where I'm like, Okay, you're just like wearing this toe bag. You're not actually using it because you're using it to signal something about like your liberalism and your politics, and you're forgetting the romance of the bag. Bags are so romantic, you know, it's like sex a bag.

Bags are sex.

Yeah, you know you're like ruffling through it. It has everything you want. You put it down, you pick it up. That's sex.

Okay, So here's what you're there's something in there.

Froyd did a whole thing about this.

And do you know what plane bag is. It's someone who is like a sex positivity influencer, but you can tell they don't have sex. It's someone who makes video front to camera videos that are like okay, so choosing the right butt podcast And then and you're like, have you ever had sex? Yeah? That's really tough.

Yeah, I think Okay, another reason why a bag is sex?

Yeah?

Yeah, there's like the whole thing of like, as a boy, you're like I was taught as a child like don't look at a woman's bag.

Yes, it's like how did it make you feel?

Well? Like I want to have sex with that?

Bag.

Well, there is something even when you see a woman opening the bag and going and you're like.

Oh, it's like it's really erotic.

It's very erotic. It's also I won't it's almost like breastfeeding.

I was just gonna say that. I was just gonna say.

Because here's the thing with breastfeeding, it's still weird space between private and public because of course you want to celebrate, like you do not ever want to what's the.

Word stigmatizigmatize it, yes, but.

You're also not going to be like taking a photo like smile, like taking a photo of a woman. So it's like this weird midway point where you're like, there are two there are three options private, public, empowered, and it is empowered.

One of the funnier empowered options I think in the past like fifteen years is the breastfeeding pod.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's so funny because it's like someone is walking in with their child and you're just like, yeah, girl, you're about to go breastfeed. But I also can't see it exactly.

Yeah, it's totally good.

That leans more towards shame to me, so like I'm going to the bathroom, but for breastfeeding.

Well, it's not shame. It's quiet luxury, quiet luxury. It's like you see someone wearing a gorgeous look from the Rows twenty one and you're and if you're a classy person, you're not going to stop them on the street and say is that the Row. You're just gonna sort of given them up and down and say I see you, Yes, exactly. And that's how I feel about breastfeedingastfeed.

You know, I did the Row.

No, it is not as good quality as people say it.

It's not. And the prices that you are paying shocking down payment prices.

No.

Literally, you're like, where's Klarna?

Do I Clarona my eggs? Or do I Karna my shoes? From the Row? I want to a really fabulous Fincher store downtown and there was a Row frock shapeless, which I like, Yeah, I was like, let me try it on. It was affordable for the Row. And I tried it on and I looked like I looked like death, Like I looked like, you know, depictions of death and ramantic death. I would never say that, No, like you know, death as like a black triangle, just like like motionless se Yeah, yeah, it just I don't.

Know, people pay a lot of money, don't like death.

But maybe I'm just like kind of a basic like femme girl, Like I do like feeling like the closer, like you know, demanding that I show off my waist or whatever, like oh that stuff. I like that stuff.

Yeah, I find the row is always to me just implied, like you just want to spend a lot of money on something.

Right, It's sort of like you have a fetish for spending money literally more so than for a specific.

Type yourself yourself. Yeah, but you're like a good person, You're a good shopper. Yeah, because you're deciding to spend three thousand dollars on a sweater as opposed to accruing a lot of fast fashion, and there's never a third option that you might just like not spend money on yourself at all and not be materialist.

Well, there's also something about the row being quiet luxury, where you're like, well, why why why so quiet?

What are you ashamed of? What do you hide? It? Totally like soft life?

Can we go there?

Wait?

What soft life? You guys know about stuff?

What's soft life?

I wonder if this is like a racialized thing, but in the past two years, I kept seeing posts and essays from people, you like black, like middle class, like well educated women who are like, I'm not doing a hard life anymore. I'm going to do soft life. So soft life means like I'm not going to be I'm not gonna have political opinions because you don't listen to me. I'm just gonna go to Miami.

I feel humiliated, first of all, that I've never heard about this.

This is so interesting. Maybe there's still a little segregation in the world. I'm interesting, but yeah, it's like it's completely taken over. Like some of the most like industrious, like exciting women I know are now.

Like in Miami.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess it's like black the black version of like trad wife culture.

Oh but it is also women. Yeah, Is it also men?

No, it's a very singular They probably are, but I haven't found them. But it's like, singularly it's about like the overworked black women.

It is a response. It is a response to like white people having signs that say listen to Black women being like no, thank you, I'm going to Miami as one.

Don't listen to me, like the ship that I say sometimes Sure, it's like.

I'm not, I mean, on this podcast. Yeah, we've always insulted so many communities.

Oh my gosh, I have no No, No.

You haven't. I'm just bags. Yeah, I wait, I'm sorry. Go ahead, I go back to the toe. I want to go back to tote, even though I'm like, we have to have you back on to discuss soft life because I'm.

Well, it's a like we talked about like sort of head in the Sand vibes right away.

So Head in the Sand was last summer. Each summer we say what summer it is, So there was one summer that was cliff girl summer. We can't get into it. And but last summer was head in the Sand girl summer. And it was because people were no longer reading the news. Yeah, and so that's sort of what soft life is.

Yes, it is an extension of that. It's like not reading the news because I don't know, like if you think about like Kamala losing for example, Like there was a response from a lot of people that was like you didn't listen to us, So we're just gonna like abandon any of like I don't know, like moral rectitude.

It's like why try if no one is paying attention.

Yeah, but or it's not really like if no one is paying attention, it's just like we're not going to save you anymore.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, which is you know what if I suddenly do that even though even though I'm not in that, I'm saying, like, you guys are not listening.

Well, GA, guys kind of arguing that at all times, the summer vacations are skipping.

GA guys are skipping the chapter where you are politically engaged and want people who listen to you and are going straight to stop play.

I mean, it's almost that season. We're in the middle of April is.

Coming.

Wait, what do you What's What's what's Pulia this summer?

Okay, So I'm almost scared to even say this on air. I have heard so I am being pressured to go to Genoa. What's that Italy?

Yeah, that's new. I haven't heard that.

I think that's going to be the new Pulia.

Okay, are you gonna are you going to submit to the pressure?

I think so I haven't taken I haven't taken a vacation that wasn't family oriented in maybe pre pandemic. So I think this is going to be my big treat to myself. What's the first word you guys keep saying? Pulia is a is a big vacation destination that people go to. Where is it it is in Italy?

Yeah?

Damn.

It's so awesome when something goes completely over your head because it's sort of like, I'm glad I didn't even know to want.

Like that's kind of a.

Nice it's very philosophy that you've just been.

There to not know, don't know, don't want. So it's like, yeah, desires beautiful, the soft life of desire.

During write that down, let me just get my pen out of my toe bag that's full of things.

Okay, So I have another thing about sex being bad about bags being sex Okay, and this is controversial. Think about the life cycle of a bag visa v brand new, spink, brand new clean versus completely round through, right, there's something where it's like, if it's too clean, that's not attractive, yes, but sorry, if it's too dirty, that's also not attractive.

Oh my gosh, should we start a coffee shop instead of we run on Duncan Christian values?

Honestly, would do amazing, That would be really great. I think we we are.

I don't know how much we're allowed to talk about it, and it's okay if not, but like the New Yorker tote.

Of it at all, Yeah, like that we were talking around you were You're being so virginal.

And it's just like it implies so much. There's like a status level to it, and then there's like a conversation about like there's a hate towards it because of the status level and this thing that like cycles around my ahead. Well, I don't know where to stand on it, Like I don't know where we where it lands in the culture right now.

I can, I'll say something and then maybe that'll inspire other opinions. I think one of the reasons why a New Yorker toade is straight is because it is the default tote. Like there's something hegemonic about it, regardless of how you feel about the actual New Yorker magazine. It is like, think tote, what do you think do you think in New York or toad? Yeah, there is standard. It is standard. And I think that is where a lot of the like because it has become canonized in this way.

Right. It's also we're having a very New York centric.

Like.

Part of the reason why you even feel strong emotion when you see someone wearing that tote is because you're probably seeing them wear it and you know these neighborhoods. Yes I'm not gonna name them not I've been talking about dos the neighborhoods please and so the and then you you are filled with the self loathing mm hmm because you're like, I'm one of them, Yes, because you're you're like, I identify that status simple. It's not so much

Yeah, it's even like there's something if we're talking about sort of let's say the park slope, like wealthy.

It's sad it's Sam. That's crazy. I just said we were not naming neighborhoods.

I'm like, I'm calling everyone out today. Enough the Park Slope, like wealthy family that's still like liberal and cool.

Yeah, you like see.

Them and you're like I want that, Like I'll never be able to have that. Yeah, And I'm like I'm jealous of it, And that's the New Yorker toad to me kind of and.

You don't want to admit to yourself that you're jealous of it.

Yeah yeah, yeah, But then it's people. Then then it becomes also people trying to sort of imposter syndrome, like they'll like get it because they're like, well, I can have a piece of that lifestyle if I just get the toe.

Rare, right, Because there's also the there's the other side of it, which is like new college graduates moved to New York City, Yeah, wearing a New Yorker toad and she's like so excited about her big internship. That's true. Yeah, that's a sweet one.

I feel like in my youth I would make fun of that one. Yet now I now my haggard old thank god you read yeah totally. You know, like someone is paying a subscription.

That's great. Here's what I have to say, Let's see more New Yorker magazines if you're in New Yorker toats because I'm on these trains and I'm seeing way more totes than people reading the magazine.

And they used to tear that magazine up on the train.

It's true, yeah all the time.

Yeah, you know, it's like the New Yorker magazine no longer on trains. What is on trains is speakers.

Yeah.

Yeah, there are so many speakers on the trains.

Speakers on the train.

And I have been taking the train by myself since I was maybe like ten or eleven years old, and there was I've seen some stuff. I once saw a kid get his iPod stolen from him out of his hand. Oh no, on the two train. I was like fourteen, coming home from high school that day. And it wasn't even I don't know if you could call it like a mugging because there wasn't like really any like deep violence involved. This guy was just like your puny, I'm gonna take this, and he.

Just walked off. Sure.

Sure, I feel like I've seen all kinds of violations, but everyone knew, like there was a social trust that you wouldn't blast music on the train, and now it's impossible. You just go. You're like in a like the seven Circle of Hell train, like car to car, someone's blasting something.

Okay, here's my suggestion for you, Doreen. Obviously you haven't. You you have access to the New Yorker offices Conde Nast. You go in there, you get a bunch of New Yorker magazines. Whenever someone's blasting music, you go up to them. You say, you have them on the shoulder. You say, read this instead.

Oh my gosh, a street preacher before.

My job, you say, open to age twenty seven. I have an amazing piece. I think you're going to absolutely love it.

Oh my gosh. I never I don't know. I always feel I feel like very not implicated when I see people with New york Er gear.

Yeah, and like that's like between you totally.

And mag Like this is an.

Interesting thing actually, And I think this weirdly circles back

I know there's something I've always This is an interesting point that I haven't really thought about, but I like, there are people that make their jobs their whole thing, and oh, that's the blank guy. Yes, and then there's people that like have that job and like almost keep it quiet, so it's not their whole thing, right, And I've always really admired the latter half, but also crave the legitimacy of the first hours.

Well, there's something I think we feel that it's cheek. Yeah, when someone is like, oh, that's my job, as opposed to like, this is my everything, it's quite luxury.

It's quiet. We can't get enough of this quiet labor.

It would not be quiet luxury if your handle on all platforms was at New York or Dorian, your prophib picture was in New Yorker Sketch, and your cover photo was the New Yorker Dandee, could you imagine I would be like, what a loser?

I changed the sketch though when we first did it.

Of course, of course.

Because I I smile in the world, but not when I'm doing my job. I'm a serious woman, of course, and our wonderful illustrator give me a smile, and I was like absolutely, like I need to be taken seriously, so I have like a really straight mind, severe face. I think I look like my cartoon though.

Wait, so did you request for your cartoon to not have a smile. That's very that's really funny, that's really good. Yeah.

I there's something about I remember, this is very it.

I know. During the Facebook days, a big running joke was that comedians would have the way that the the way that the structure of Facebook would work is that you, they would say works at comedian because do you remember this? It would be the company self employed comedians I love.

I used to screenshot though, because they were a bunch and sometimes I have like a few things and they would always be so self.

Serious comedian bartender.

Yea yeah, best case scenario.

I used to be like a little bit of a comedy groupie. Really yeah, I've never said that that like the way it sounds, but it's true.

For what what's what? Which?

In college, I just would I was obsessed with the improvos.

This is the most vulnerable thing.

I don't know why I'm telling you that that's true. I think because I don't know. There's a link right between like writing and it's both writing. And I really admired that they were like willing to like debase themselves.

So can I say even more vulnerable? Are you ready for this?

Yeah? Crying?

In college I was a spoken word group. No way, I was obsessed with the spoken word. I was not part of it, just to be I was going to say. I knew I did not have the talent within me, but I would go to all their shows and I would like be like legitimate fans of them and like befriended them from the shows, and one of them ended up becoming a very successful novelist. Oh shout out.

So you were fans of the college and properup not like like uh yeah.

And then a little bit after college I would go to you know, like New York City.

Something Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.

I mean I was obviously I was, But I do think comedy is evil, Like I just you know what's.

Crazy is that it like throughout history has been evil. It's just like, well, I'm just thinking about the way the role that specifically comedians currently have in normalizing every evil thing. It's like it's like someone an evil thing will happen and then all the comedians will be like, okay, great, so you normalize the sexist part, you normalize the racist part, and then let's get together next week and we'll sort

Okay, wait, this is something that I also wanted to bring up earlier, and I think this is a good time for it.

So we told you about Lizzo's pass.

Right, I get For some reason, whenever you say that phrase, I envision you know, the map like in the beginning of like a fantasy. Now you go down Lizzos past.

That's a reference.

It's fully Lord of the Rings code I got it is do writers face Lizzo's pass? Yes?

You do?

Yes, they definitely.

This was like rejection being like a huge hit right now, Like, is he on Lizzo's past writing?

Yeah?

I think though, but like I think he's on the past current.

He's on the past. What did Sally Rooney choose? I think she chose, well, I know, I don't know. I think uh got the mic. I can't, I can't.

I can't answer that question.

No, no, we're not. We're not making to answer that question.

But oh god, okay, can you think of any notable writer that you are allowed to talk about that have.

Well let's start there. Can you think of any notable writer.

You know, can you think of any writer that has gone through Lizo's pass and got in a particular way.

Do you think Joan Didion chose target or pitchfork?

That's okay, Yeah, it's so interesting that you bring Joan did he enough. I can't believe Joan Didion can come up in a conversation so rare because we're talking about agency. Yeah, but I do think sometimes Lizzo's Pass is not something that is done by the right.

Yes, well, the winds are blowing and the storm is brewing and somebody exactly.

And your ripman winkle when you wake up and all of a sudden you're in like file four.

Yeah.

Yeah, And it's fascinating with Joan Didion that like Selene had a lot to do with that, you know, all of a sudden, like.

It really did.

Yeah, like that ad. She had always been fetishized as opposed to read two different things, and that AD just like really accelerated it. I think that the interesting about Lizzo's past to me is like you can go back and then turn around.

True, it is a geographic location. You're allowed to travel backwards.

Absolutely, Like sometimes there are writers who you know they put out a book or they do a story, or they you know, take on a second job. And I'm like, that's so that you could get that apartment, you know, And I'm fine with that. I think I think, you know, I think selling out is a bit of an outdated structure. It doesn't really like make sense with the way that labor works in the art industry.

And especially with the substance ratio and social media.

I think that like it is possible, it might even be like good and generative to kind of like dip into target.

Yeah, not target.

Itself because bad DEI we don't of course, we don't top of target. We're costco girls here.

This is the concept of target.

Yes, the concept is target. It's useful I think to like abandon seriousness and to like, actually, I think, be on the level and interact with like, I don't know, sort of like basicness of our culture. Obviously, like we think it's sacrilegic because we're like writers are supposed to be wise, They're supposed to be like above commercialism, above all these things. But the dirty secret is like throughout

Yeah. Hearing you talk about Liz's past is amazing.

I really feel it's like when a dramatic actor does comedy and you're like, oh my god, I didn't know you could be examined like that. Okay, Wow, I think, Okay, I'm this might actually be a difference between writers versus musicians, because I'm trying to examine if musicians.

If you and go back, okay, who is in music?

Because writers, I agree, like especially like movie I think about like people like movie writers will one weird one one.

Which is accepted. We sort of understand that in order to be a good yeah, like screenwriter, you do have to prove that you can make commercial.

Yeah. But musicians back. The musician that has gone visited Target and then went back to the past.

Was think about it. Let's think about it.

God, this is hard, Okay, Okay, I have one. Okay, Well, this isn't quite right. Okay, but maybe it'll lead us in the direction. I kind of think bony Vere because I felt it was Kanye Target.

Well, that's the thing that's a larger conversation with Kanye. Yeah, but that's the thing. It's like, I think that's what you're implying.

I think, but I also think that like the second album that like won the Grammy and that got like this big mainstream thing and it really felt and I think it was in commercials for like Apple, and it was like okay, this is like he's big now.

And then he's in Kanye songs and it.

Was like okay, Like I personally was like, I'm cool, I don't care anymore. And then he kind of went back and did like electronic weirder music again, and then now he sort of settled into a he can go either way.

Okay. So maybe it's musicians. Okay, it's musicians that also work as producers. It's like they're a producer. Chapter of their life is target, like they can go do a you know, do a do a song.

Okay, sorry, this is I'm going to common deer right now. Please please, Because I've written a lot in my life, a lot of is ship that's not true. It is great. And the best thing I've ever written was one sentence and it was a tweet back when we had Twitter, and it was black people loved Tam and Paula because they do. They do. You're not in your head, I

Is Australian? Are they Are they American? I think they are.

Kevin Parker Australian is Australian.

Okay, Okay. I once saw them on Halloween and they were all dressed like the Spice Girls for Halloween while they were on Story. Really it was really special.

Wow, that's so beautiful. I would have cried.

Well in the in the spirit of Lis this past word. We think Tama Paula is.

Now TAM and Paula is at TAM and Paula is coming back from targeting. Yeah, I agree, taking a long time.

It's a long check out, it's a long journey.

He's forgetting something, goes back.

To Target. Lady is like tapping him on the shoulder.

I mean literally, that's like, that's like he did the Gaga song a few years ago. He's Target.

Do you think men are afforded more leeway in terms of visiting Target than women are? And of course I'm thinking of Liz Fair and Jewel. I was women who like tried to visit Target and people were like, you are that sign love? And I also love the list Fair pop record. Yeah yeah, anyway, but it's like when they did that, I mean quite literally, Pitchfork gave the list Fair Amaze zero and then she was black listed. Right.

I think I think that that was the case for like jen X, and now we're like over correcting for it.

Yes, totally, do you know what I mean? We're like that was Pitchfork's target. Well exactly, how Pitchfork again, all my love to everyone we know that rants for Pitchfork. But Pitchfork being like announcement we're giving all Taylor Swift albums ten point zero starting today, You're just like.

Okay, exactly. And you know there's people talk about poptimism and all these things, but fundamentally, it's like music should be like a little difficult to listen.

To, almost like all art.

You shouldn't be able. It's just like, I don't know, even when Cowboy Carter came out last year, people were we're saying in the same breath that it was an album that was like questioning this genre, questioning the way that it doesn't attend to the black roots of like roots music, folk music, all this stuff is doing all that stuff, and yet you can play its song and

It's the question I've never understood. There's like a bit because there is like that's like sort of gay credit card commercials. It's like people are like, we need this, and it's like but we also hate this, And I'm like, which is it?

Is this good or bad?

Yeah?

Yeah, here's a question. Lizzo was just Liza herself was just on SNL. She's debuting a new era. Do we think Lizzo is going to leave Target?

I think it's like it's like a Black Mirror episode, like you remember the one where they were in a snow globe, Like Lizzo thinks she's on Earth, but that's that's where she is.

When I see Lizo's past, I see her like in the wall like Han Solo, almost like she is just like she is frozen in Target.

Yeah, and there's something about it that I find with her particularly, it's like kind of heartbreaking.

Of course, she's so talented.

She's so talented you can't not give her.

It's so charismatic. I actually love Lesso.

And there was a moment where it was like that was the reaction that you had to it. Yeah, but I don't know for someone who seemed like she had such a defined sense of self, she like really disintegrated once she like reached a service. And I think maybe you're seeing that with a Chapel too.

It's true where it's just.

Like you actually for you cannot like stabilize in this moment, and so then you just like go down the kind of like easy route of wearing a T shirt on s and that says terrified on it?

Right? Is that what I didn't see this? Oh that's what she did? She did that she did?

Oh god, Well, I'm praying for Chapel. I hope she survives the past. And yeah, I hope she breaks free of the wall that she's frozen in. That's right in Liso's Pass. Someone I need to work with an artist who can sort of mock up what's past. I see it so clearly.

T shirt that says I Survived's like there's two I chose pitchfork, I chose target. There's a way. The way that lists pass is a geographic location. I need someone to three D under it for me.

Oh gosh, what is it passing over?

Well, there's there's a big cliff.

Yeah, and so I think the cliff might honestly be targeted.

It's like you don't, you've kind of fall Oh and they're not careful enough.

Yeah, yeah, because you have to. It's like a winding little pass.

I really am fascinated by your point that you can choose pitchfork but have your audience project target. In a Joan Didion esquay, I would almost say, back to the Sally Rouding conversation, a version of that happened with her, Like I actually think she has not changed her writing, like she has always been like this, Who I am this when I'm interested in these are my politics. This is what I'm interested in my characters doing. Like there's no,

Wow.

Whoa.

Now that's that's a really grotesque image. I'm very interested in that. Like Sally Ronnie just hanging around.

Because it became status to have the book and to like, you know her, it was like shorthand and it.

It seemed and continues to seem. You know, she's publishing in the Guardian like long essays about you know, like why it's essential to be a public intellectual who speaks about what's happening in palestime and DNA side. And yet her publishing company is like throwing book parties where like everything is decked out in the intermezzo, checkboard.

Don't talk.

Yeah, and she just seems so uninterested in that, and it's incredible. I mean that's kind of the dream you just in Ireland with your husband writing these books that I think maintain their integrity and people can do whatever, you know, like the author's dead, they do whatever they want with it stateside, and you're just like to do your thing because.

It's literally like you being It's like you are at a protest and the target offices are producing tote bags with your face on them. There is a polgram of you. There's a target that is crazy.

It's really fascinating. And also I want to emphasize too, Like you know, there are some debates that people have around Sally Rooney where they're like, oh, is she like

Yeah.

Yeah, there's so much of a conversation around Rooney is like, is this real literature?

Don't you think? That goes back to your point about cowboy Carter and how how can something be both high art, radical whatever and also go down so easy?

Right, there's something of it, and I don't know.

What the answer is either what if I did? Yeah, that would be awesome. Wow, this has been. I'm impressed. My brain is on a treadmill.

I feel like whenever we start this podcast, I'm like, what the hell are we going to talk about?

To that?

I was so nervous. I just wanted to say studying up last night.

Yeah, you get the first ever Straighter Lab Award for excellence. Yeah, my excellent and audio storytelling. Yeah, this has been.

I feel like I've engaged in a higher way than normal.

Yeah. I hope that this episode is sort of like the normal people of podcast episode, and that it is so sophisticated and intellectual, and yet it goes down soon and people are listening to it not on speakers, on headphones on the subway, and they're having a debate about whether they're having a debate whether about whether we have at Lizzo's Paths, have chosen Target or Pitchfork.

Yeah, yeah, I love it when you get meta.

Can't help ourselves sometimes it's true, it's a disease. Should we do our final segment? Yeah, I mean it pains me to say, but we have to. I think we have to.

So our final segment is called shout Outs, and in this segment we pay homage to the grand straight tradition of the radio shout out, shouting out to anything, people, places, things, ideas that we are enjoying. And I'm gonna I have one.

It's always we always think of them on the spot. Yeah, I currently don't have one.

Yeah, and I okay, I'm gonna start, Okay, and I'm gonna start.

I'm going to put the bar low.

Okay, what's up freak closers and perverts around the globe. I haven't done this yet, right, I want to give a shout out to the book on everybody's lips, that's right rejection. Everyone's been talking about it, and I'm already late to the game. But I just finished it and I was like, damn, everybody was kind of right.

I was so blown away by how.

Cynical, uh, internety sort of there was a meanness to it that I really really love. It hit all my most evil parts of myself, and I said thank you, because it really was like, Oh, if you think you're pushing for far, you can always push a little further and be a little bit even more. It felt like I kept saying, this is a spicy little book, and I think everyone should read it.

If you've spent any.

Time on the internet, you'll get a kick out of it. I love when there's a book du jour that everyone's kind of doing at the same time, and I say, sey love, Wow, that.

Was really great. I could hear the radio horns in the background.

Oh okay, okay, okay, you know I'm going to go book, but I'm going to go show the opposite direction. What's up, freaks the losers. I want to give a shout out to the audio book of the Facebook whistleblower Sarah Wynn Williams. Careless people. You heard about this, folks. This woman worked at Facebook and now has published a book, and it

Are they marinating?

You met there?

Okay? What's up, y'all? How you doing? It was nice being with you today. I'm gonna give a shout out to Todd Haynes. I love Todd Haynes. I feel like I'm always like where he is. But for some reason, I'd never seen Mildred Peers and I had recently. Okay, all right, So you know, Todd Haynes is really famous for kind of like reinterpreting the dicta of fifties filmmaking the kind of woman's picture and putting it through this like different I think, like gay your more intellectual filter.

Okay, we'll still put silly music behind it.

Perfect. I just would encourage everyone to watch or rewatch. Todd Haynes Mildred Peers.

I'm convinced. This is how I feel about the film kind of Pregnant starring Amy Schumer. No, it has been. It has been recommended to me so many times, and I am actually I think in terms of non television work, I do think I'm a Todd Haynes's completest. But I've never I've never pressed planned military.

Well, that's what's really interesting about It's kind of like in this limbo because it's like Todd Hans is doing HBO. You know, there was a lot of reaction to it twelve years ago, but for me, I think it might be my favorite. Hand WHOA over Safe?

That's really okay, Well I'm gonna watch this.

Can you put like a like a flash bombs sound?

Yeah? Yeah. Also, don't you feel like Safe is almost at the point where people are projecting target onto it. It has become too I think popular. It's like everyone's favorite, like everyone's like out of the box favorite movies.

Yeah, have you seen safe?

Don't you think? Yeah?

Huh, that's scary when that happens, I know, and yet it's so good.

Well. Oh, this has been an amazing episode of Absolute Heaven.

Thanks so much for doing the things so much fun.

Lease go to the New Yorker dot com slash streams.

Phill Oh is that how it works?

I don't know. Do you have anything else you want to promote other than New Yorker dot com?

Oh?

Do I want it? Like peace, love and happiness?

Yes, peace as well?

I don't. I don't promote yeah, no, no.

Do you want to give a shout out to Durian's review of you Sexua because where a fellow stands? Yes, and twig is someone who chose Pitchfork firmly, firmly hardcore.

Yeah, she had no trouble dancing along now and no one's projecting target.

No, she can do as many Google pick slabs as she wants. Okay, that was amazing. Okay, bye bye podcast and now want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month, discord access, and more, by heading to patreon dot com slash Stradia Lab.

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Get Back to Work Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

Created and hosted by George Severe and Sam Taggart.

Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar.

Co produced by by Wang, edited.

And engineered by Adam Avalos.

Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt Grugg. Theme music by Ben Kling