Episode description
Episode description
About Corey Quinn
Over the course of my career, I’ve worn many different hats in the tech world: systems administrator, systems engineer, director of technical operations, and director of DevOps, to name a few. Today, I’m a cloud economist at The Duckbill Group, the author of the weekly Last Week in AWS newsletter, and the host of two podcasts: Screaming in the Cloud and, you guessed it, AWS Morning Brief, which you’re about to listen to.
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Corey: Normally, I like to snark about the various sponsors that sponsor these episodes, but I'm faced with a bit of a challenge because this episode is sponsored in part by A Cloud Guru. They're the company that's sort of famous for teaching the world to cloud, and it's very, very hard to come up with anything meaningfully insulting about them. So, I'm not really going to try. They've recently improved their platform significantly, and it brings both the benefits of A Cloud Guru that we all know and love as well as the recently acquired Linux Academy together. That means that there's now an effective, hands-on, and comprehensive skills development platform for AWS, Azure, Google Cloud, and beyond. Yes, ‘and beyond’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting right there in that sentence. They have a bunch of new courses and labs that are available. For my purposes, they have a terrific learn by doing experience that you absolutely want to take a look at and they also have business offerings as well under ACG for Business. Check them out. Visit acloudguru.com to learn more. Tell them Corey sent you and wait for them to instinctively flinch. That's acloudguru.com.
Corey: Welcome to the AWS Morning Brief. In lieu of the Whiteboard Confessional’s traditional approach today, I want to talk about a different kind of whiteboard issue. Specifically the whiteboard interview you wind up taking at Google, which is just a giant red herring because the real question is “How well did you erase the whiteboard afterwards?” so it aligns with their turning stuff off that people love policy. I'm joined this week by my colleague, Pete Cheslock from The Duckbill Group. Welcome, Pete.
Pete: Hello.
Corey: So, we're talking today about Steve Yegge’s article that went around the internet three times over the weekend, and it was titled “Dear Google Cloud, Your Deprecation Policy is Killing You.” Normally, you would think that that would be some form of clickbait headline, but it's not. It was a massive 23-minute long read, as per Medium. And we will, of course, throw a link to this in the [show notes]. But, Pete, what was your take on this thing?
Pete: Well, I missed it on the first go around, but when you sent me over the link, and the first thing I saw was Medium saying, a 23 minute read, and you had told me how this post had blown up. I think that really speaks for how incredibly well written this post is about this particular issue, that people in this world are willing to invest 23 minutes to read it. I was locked into it the whole time. It held my attention the whole time because of just how deep it went into Google and just how they operate.
Corey: Steve Yegge is famous for doing the platforms rant back in 2012 or so. He's a former Amazon employee who I think spent something like seven years at Amazon, about an equal time at Google, left to go run architecture at Grab a couple of years back, and then, due to these unprecedented times, is now independent/doing his own thing right now. So, that is an absolutely fascinating trail because when he writes about this stuff, he knows what he's talking about. This isn't one of those, “Eh, I’m just going to go ahead and pen something that's poorly articulated, and see what happens.” What's more amazing is I haven't seen much in the way of pushback on this. The points that he hits in this article are pretty damning, and even people from Google are chiming in with, “Yeah, that tracks.”
Pete: Yeah, and for all those listening that maybe haven't read this yet, maybe going to go read it after listening to this. What the real, I guess, crux of this post is about is how Google aggressively deprecates things and the kind of culture within Google that really drives that world to happen, and how just opposite it is to a company like Amazon. I think my biggest takeaway from this was this light bulb, “Oh my goodness, it all makes sense now,” idea of how aggressively Google deprecates things has to do with code cleanliness. They don't like five different APIs to do the same thing, so they'll deprecate four of them and keep things clean and whatever. And what I think is really interesting, too, that I read in here is how internally, this works great for Google Because they have all these tools that can automatically update code, and update APIs, and let people know if a deprecation is happening. But he compares this to, like, Java and Emacs, which historically, take decades—if ever—fully removing APIs. It was a really fascinating read.
Corey: It really was and one thing that stuck with me was, it makes perfect sense in hindsight. If you are Google and can dictate how all of your employees write software that makes it into production and have automated tooling to go back and handle deprecations for you, then great, that does work. The problem is, is that the rest of the world is not like your internal engineers. The problem I see behind Google Cloud, by and large, is that it assumes that everyone tends to write software the way that Google engineers would. That's not a valid assumption, I assure you. I write software that is nothing like anyone who calls themself a software engineer would ever write, but your cloud offering has to support my nonsense.
Pete: Right. Compare this to Amazon. So, that's one of the biggest other takeaways that really hit me. And this came up when I think I was looking at a cloud bill and seeing SimpleDB still on it. SimpleDB, which they don't really market it, they don't tell you to use it, it's not part of design things. Although, Corey, you can correct me if I'm wrong there, if it's included, if it's really talked about much anymore, I don't think it is—
Corey: No, they've tried to bury it, but they are still hiring for that team from time to time.
Pete: That's—yeah, I remember you had mentioned that. And so think about that. Think about the m1.medium, right. I think m1.medium was the first instance type back in 2006—
Could you imagine if Amazon deprecated some...