Interview with Les Brown
Hugh: Hi, this is Hugh Ballou again, and this is a very special episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. I have over here my good friend, Les Brown. And Les is going to share with you this movement that he has initiated. Over here, my new friend Tamara Hartley. Les?
Les: Yes?
Hugh: We have been capturing ideas on the storyboards about this project that you have got in mind. Tell people what this project is.
Les: It’s a project that is designed to make a greater impact on people on the general population and helping people to develop the tools, mindset, skillset, and collaborative, achievement-driven relationships that will allow them to create the greatest version of themselves. This is the era that the late Peter Drucker calls the Era of the 3 C’s: accelerated Change, overwhelming Complexity, and then Competition. With all the changes taking place with technology—according to the Department of Labor, over 20,000 people are losing their jobs every day, and 50% of the jobs that now exist can be done by robots—when we look at the advance of artificial intelligence and cheap labor abroad, people literally are now in an entrepreneur’s era, and they have to begin to expand their skillset so they will be able to handle what is required to be in this global economy where accelerated change is taking place.
Hugh: It is so true. You see it happening every day.
Les: Yes.
Hugh: Every day, there is massive changes. You have a special passion for those people who are incarcerated and continue to be incarcerated. Talk about that.
Les: We incarcerate more people in America than anyplace else in the world. We are making people bitter rather than better. I believe that we have to develop a higher level of consciousness on how we deal with people that have made some bad choices. My goal is, to people that are incarcerated, if prisons will allow me, to have my programs in the prison that will change their mindset, teach them how to become an effective communicator, how to develop positive, collaborative, achievement-driven, supportive relationships, how to earn money online as entrepreneurs, and how to dress like a prospect rather than a suspect.
Hugh: A prospect rather than a suspect.
Les: Yes, because the truth is, when people get a criminal background, they are not going to get any jobs. If they do, those jobs won’t pay much money. These individuals are not going to starve to death. They are going to find a way to feed themselves. As a result, that is why the recidivism rate is over 80%. If you had a factory that was producing products, and 80% of the products came back defective, you wouldn’t continue to use that process.
There has been a slight change in how we are dealing with people that have made some bad choices in our society. Rather than throwing money at caging them, they are now looking at the possibility of helping them to learn how to read because over 76% of them are functional illiterates, giving them the skillset and giving them some support to help them to be reintegrated into society. If you go to jail, you can’t stay in public housing. If you apply for a job, you have to put down that you have a criminal background. Most employers will say, “We’ll call you. Don’t call us.” They are penalized throughout their lives, even after they have paid their debt to society. That’s not fair.
My mother was once incarcerated. She sold home brew and moonshine and wrote numbers when she could no longer work at the M&M cafeteria. That was a tough time. I became a man at ten years old as a result of that. Seven children in a house that no longer had the guardian, the person who took care of us. She adopted seven of us. She said that she made a commitment when she did that that we would never go to bed hungry, and we did not. We would always have a roof over our head, and we did have that. That was a gaff in our lives that was very painful and challenging.
There are a lot of good people who made some bad choices, and I believe the world consists of the caught and the uncaught. I have made some bad decisions in my life. I did some stupid things when I was younger. Thank God I didn’t get caught. I believe that God was looking out for me because when I go to the bathroom, I leave the door open a crack. I do it all the time. What did Retta say? If you can’t do the time, don’t commit the crime.
Hugh: Les Brown, you have this magical ability to put concepts into powerful words and to communicate it to people. I have been in groups that have just been so excited. I know that people write you and people speak to you about how you have inspired them. Something you said, and the content you gave them, gave them substance to get them out of where they were. It’s a mind shift, isn’t it?
Les: No question. To put it in another context, you are expanding their vision of themselves. When people are going through a tough time, they have a tendency to expand and exaggerate the circumstances they are going through. When I speak, my goal is to expand your vision of yourself, to begin to see that there is greatness in you, that you are greater than your circumstances. You are better than anything you are going through now or in the future. You have to affirm to yourself.
I have dealt with cancer on a regular basis for 21 years. My affirmation is: “This will not get the best of me.” I have to say this to myself, “I refuse to allow this to live in my life. I am stronger than this.” We have to, I believe, program ourselves and talk to ourselves to get through the stuff we are dealing with because things are going to happen to us. Forrest Gump is right, “Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get.”
Greater is He that is in us and the He that is in the world as a presence. There is a power that we all have within ourselves that we have not been trained how to access so that we can rise above what we are going through and live our lives from the inside out rather than living our lives from the outside in. You have to discipline yourself not to get caught up and buy into what I call the weapons of mass distractions. There are so many things that will distract you and tell you that you can’t handle this or deal with this. You have to harness your will. You have to say to yourself, “I am going to get through this.” When life has been kicking my butt, no matter how bad it is, I have an affirmation, “I am going to make it.”
When I say that, I think about my mother because she went through some tough times, raising seven children that she didn’t give birth to. She had a third grade education, was a domestic worker, and had arthritis. She would say, “Arthur is bothering me.” I would ask her, “Mama, who is Arthur? You are always talking about Arthur.” She said, “Don’t worry. If you live long enough, you’ll find out.” I have Arthur in my right butt. In my behind. You know what I mean? On the right side.
I was at a church service, and this lady was a healer. So I decided to get in line. She asked, “Can I help you?” I said, “Well, just touch me at the top of my head, and the healing power will go through my whole body.” She said, “I want direct impact.” I said, “Well, I have prostate cancer, and I have arthritis in my right butt.” She said, “Touching means the same.” She was not going to touch me in the groin.
Hugh: Oh my.
Les: This is real, I’m telling you. She gave me some prayer cards, which I still have in my underwear right now. I was going back and forth on the stage. I saw people laughing and looking past me. This was in Detroit. I asked, “What are you laughing at?” These prayer cards that I had paid $3 for had slipped out of my pants, and I had a line of prayer cards going across the stage. I said, “You all can laugh if you want.” I picked them up and put them right in my underwear. 21 years of kicking cancer’s butt.
Hugh: Your whole life is changing the paradigm because of your determination and your vision for yourself.
Les: Yes.
Hugh: We are in Cleveland, Ohio. We spent a chunk of yesterday letting you download your vision. This is a foundation that you are starting, but it’s bigger than that. It’s more like a movement. You are talking about 80% return to prison. That is a crisis.
Les: Yes.
Hugh: And you’re doing something about it. This is an official notice. We haven’t named it, but you are launching the Les Brown Foundation that provides support. You are going to invite people to participate in this movement with you. We are in this room in Ohio, and we have had some really powerful conversations. This is a huge vision, Les. I have worked with charities for 31 years. This is the top of the heap. This is powerful. Why am I here, and why is Tamara here?
Les: The two of you have a skillset that I don’t have. You are very knowledgeable and experienced in this area of how to set up a nonprofit, along with Sherita Herring. Part of what I want to do, two people that I know who have integrity and experience and the skillset and other relationships that I don’t have, and that can teach me. I have asked for help, not because I am weak, but because I want to remain strong. Ask for help, but don’t stop until you get it.
I could have gone on to set up a nonprofit; a lot of people do that. But I wanted to do it in the right way. I wanted to have a system and a level of transparency. When people contribute to the work that we are going to be doing, they will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the money is going where we said it will go. I believe that when you are going to do something of this magnitude, you need people in your corner that can help you do that, that know things that you don’t know, and can set it up the right way so you can accelerate your level of success. You and Tamara are two individuals I strongly believe in. I met you at CEO Space.
When we look at putting something together that will outlast you—to me, greatness is living your life in such a way that the things that you create, as one Russian author said, will not be undone or destroyed after you’re gone. We are only here for a limited amount of time. I had a plan of doing an event with Wayne Dyer, and we talked about doing a PBS Special. We put it off for several months. He finally called me and said, “I am coming to Orlando. Let’s get together and do this PBS special.” Two days later, he had a massive heart attack.
We have to seize the moment. I am 72. I look much younger because I don’t believe in gray hair. There is no shade in my gait. I travel around with mascara in my pocket. If any gray hair comes out, I will touch it up in a heartbeat. The only three gray hairs that show up are in my eyelashes because I haven’t figured out how to do that yet. But I’m thinking about working on getting me some Mary Kay and hooking this stuff up.
My goal now is about leaving a legacy. What will be different because I came this way? I have been thinking about that as a 21-year cancer conqueror, because of God’s grace and mercy. My goal is to live a life that they could say, This guy, because of his passion and his commitment to help transform people’s lives, like somebody transformed his life, he made an impact. There are people as a result of going through his training or hearing him speak that they were never the same as a result of being in his presence. I want to make my life mean something. Most people after they die, about two or three weeks later, because their lives were so inconsequential, they just worked a job, paid the bills, and took care of the family. One day, they were out of here. I don’t want it like that.
I remember talking to my daughter on the telephone, and she said, “Dad, I am here in traffic, and there is a policeman on a motorcycle in the middle of the road. He is obviously stopping traffic for a funeral procession to come by.” I said, “Okay.” She said, “I think I’m going to be here a minute.” All of a sudden, she said, “Whoa, wow.” I said, “What’s wrong?” She said, “Nothing’s wrong. A hearse just went through. Only one car was behind it. When I die, Dad, I want, because of how I live my life, there to be a long procession of cars and people coming out to celebrate my life, that I was here in the difference I made for them.” I said, “I understand that.”
That is what I want. When I go, people will come out to celebrate my life because I did some good stuff. As evil prevails, a lot of good men and women do nothing. There is a lot of good that all of us can do.
But one of the things that I think about often, a lady that flew over from Australia for me to train her in speaking, I asked her, “Why did you select me? There are a lot of people all over the world.” She said, “I saw you on YouTube speaking in the Georgia Dome, and you speak from your heart. Therefore, I want to learn how to speak from the heart as well.” I said, “I can teach you how to do that.”
Then I stopped and said, “What is your why? What is the reason you want to discover your power voice?” She said, “When I saw Dylann Roof, a young white kid who went to an African-American church and killed nine black people, “I felt there should be another person on his side standing before the judge. He was not born with that level of hatred in him. Somebody was in his ear. Somebody twisted his mind.” Then she paused and said, “I believe the world is as it is not because a few people are violent. I believe the world is as it is because too many people are silent.” When she said that, that really grabbed me. That gave me goose bumps.
I want my voice and the voices of the people I train to be a chorus to create a different kind of mindset on the planet. I believe that can be done in our lifetime.
Hugh: What we are here to set up is a way for people not only to be at your celebration for your life, but to continue the celebration. In Africa, there is a saying, “When a man dies, they burn his library.” We are not burning your library. We are building it up.
Les: In fact, put them in my casket with me. I tell my kids, “When I die, don’t let them do anything with me until you come down to the morgue to identify my body. To make sure that I’m gone, put a microphone in my hand. If I don’t sit up and say, ‘You’re gonna be hungry,’ you can say that Dad’s gone.” “How do you know he’s gone? Did you check his pulse?” “No, we put a microphone in his hand and his mouth was still closed.”
Hugh: Oh man. You have touched the lives of so many people in person. Like you said, your YouTube and Facebook and videos that are online, people view them. When I say Les Brown to people, they are like, “Oh yeah, I saw that video.” That is one way to live on. But what I have discovered, I have known you for a number of years, and you mentioned CEO Space. I have had to follow you twice on stage.
Les: You called me your opening act.
Hugh: That’s right. You gave me a high five. I knew you’d either love it or hate it.
Les: I thought you were quick on your feet. I saw another speaker, this former mayor of Detroit, Colman Young. He had to speak to a group of cosmetologists, all of these females. As he was coming up on the platform, he tripped and fell. Everybody gasped. When he got himself together and came up to the microphone, he said, “Obviously I have fallen for you.” I said, “You go, boy.” That was awesome.
Hugh: In this last day, my appreciation for Les Brown has grown deeper, not only for your ability to recall tons of profound quotes that are relevant to what we are talking about, but also the depth of your knowledge, perception, and experience. You know what you’re talking about, and you have paid the price. I knew that. Now I really know that. I always believed it. I know because I had to follow you that you made me a better me.
The first time you talked and left, and I had to come speak an hour or so later, I was getting dressed, and I was trembling. You had this group going, man. They cooled off and came back and were like, “Who is Hugh Ballou?” I looked in the mirror and I said to myself, “You’re going to go out there, and you’re going to be Hugh Ballou.” I had the inspiration from me from that session. Because you triggered something in me, and I gave myself permission to be me. You talked about that earlier. I can really understand, when you say helping people to access that greatness within them, which you talk about in a number of ways, I am paraphrasing my hearing it—I want to say to people I have known you for a while, I have known your content. I have a whole deeper level of appreciation. What this movement is about, you are creating a foundation to be able to provide resources for those people that are trapped. 80% return to prison, I heard you say.
Les: Yes.
Hugh: And we are talking about doing a teen program because they get into a cycle that is going to lead them there. There is the training to help people break the cycle, but you are also helping people not get in the cycle. You have some outstanding programs.
Les: I want you to pause. We decide the number of prisons that we are going to build based upon the failure rate of African-American students in the third grade. Based upon that. I say if we can track failure, we can also track success. Rather than tracking people to find out what number of kids are going to drop out in the third grade, and that will tell us the number of prisons based on those numbers we extract to build, we can decide we are going to do an intervention here, and we will give them the tools that they need to transform their mindset; teach them how to become effective communicators; teach them how to develop collaborative, achievement-driven, supportive relationships; teach them how to use the Internet; to be taught or learn how to use money online and become entrepreneurs; and teach them how to dress like a prospect rather than a suspect.
I was looking at television, and they had these police arrests live. They arrested this guy whose pants were below his butt. They said, “Pull those pants up.” There is a comedian years ago on television. He had a bag over his head. If you hear a guy with a bag over his head, that would be me right through the shopping mall with a big belt and popping these butts with these pants hanging so low. I don’t even have to say to pull your pants up because they will pull them up after that. That will be me. That is a level of insanity to be in that. My goal is to eradicate the age to addiction and incarceration death syndrome. The sagging started in the prisons.
I had to speak in a prison a few months ago. I used to challenge young men to come on stage, and I would pay them $1,000 if they could do more pushups than me. At the time, I did 142 pushups consecutively.
I went into this prison, and I asked these young guys who came into the room. They had the pants sagging. I said, “Hey, I’m an old man. Why do you wear the pants the way you do? What do you call that?” They said, “Sagging.” I said, “Sagging?” They said, “Yeah.” “How do you spell that?” “S-a-g-g-i-n.” I said, “Wow, saggin’.” If you can determine what a man will think, you will never have to concern yourself with what he will do. If you can make a man feel inferior and never have to compel him to seek an inferior status, for he will seek it himself, and if he can make a man feel justly an outcast, never have to order him to go to the back door, he will go without being told. If there is no door his very nature will demand one.
I said, “Spell it again.” “S-a-g-g-i-n.” I said, “Good. Flip it. Spell it backwards.” They paused for a moment and said, “Whoa.” I said, “Yeah. That’s how you’re dressing. Yeah. That is your vision of yourself. Yeah. You think that’s cool? Yeah.” Let me tell you something. When I left there, there was no saggin’. They pulled their pants up. I never had to tell them.
I believe that people are as they are because if we knew better, we would do better. We have created a culture that is an entertainment-driven culture. The average immigrant who comes to the United States has a four times’ greater chance of creating wealth, buying a home, and having their own business. Why? Even though they can’t speak the language and don’t know the culture, when they hit the ground, they are hungry. They came here to achieve. Immigrants have an achievement-driven mindset. We as Americans are spoiled. We are spoiled. Are we perfect? No. But there are things we have that we take for granted. I have traveled to over 40 countries. When I am coming through security, I say, “God bless America.” I am so glad to get back home. We are blessed. We live on the greatest country on the planet.
My goal is to help people overcome the psychic disrepair that this culture has created in many cases, to help them to discover the truth of who they are that will empower them to make choices that will free them from living a small life, from infecting people with their mediocrity and begin to affect people with their greatness.
Hugh: Powerful. Part of why I came and Tamara came was the brilliance that we see when you are influencing people on stage and in person. I heard you coaching people on the phone yesterday. It’s like they are the only person in the world. You give them such focus, love, and attention. I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t want to go on and be successful. You have a real, genuine interest in people. You actually care about- Everybody I’ve seen you with, you really care about them. You have a huge segment, and to be able to create sustainability, the Les Brown influence is the catalyst. What you’re creating is programs, mentoring, accountability, a whole system to help people stay on a track.
Les: Yes. T.D. Jake said something I agree with. He said, “There is no success without successors.” We learn, we earn, and you pass it on. I am in this stage now to pass on the things that I have learned. I was on a plane, and they had to have an emergency landing. I became ill on the plane. I remember being on the floor after they pulled me out of my chair, and I was going in and out of consciousness. I remember saying to myself, “God, don’t let me die now around these strangers with the knowledge that I have to transform kids’ lives. Please give me some more time to do the work that I feel You have given me to do.” When we landed in Salt Lake City, Utah, and the emergency crew came on the plane with all of their instruments, they wanted to put a paddle on my chest and the guy said, “Hey, wait a minute. You, mister. I know you. You are that man who help people deliver their dreams. I got this job because of you.” He put the oxygen mask on me. “Be gentle with him as you take him up. He’s got people’s lives he must change. He can’t go now.”
I mean, the tears begin to fall from my eyes. What are the chances? They say coincidence is God’s way of being anonymous. God was affirming to me that my work is not done, I have touched more people than I will ever know. He was talking to me as I was going out. He said, “How is Gladys doing?”
I tell you, this has been an exciting journey. I have grown. People have blessed me in so many ways. I am here because there were people who believed in me when I didn’t believe in myself. I teach that sometimes you have to believe in somebody’s belief in you until your belief kicks in.
Hugh: Yes, sir. My wife has a saying that somebody believed in her when I was nothing but potential, and I can say that, too.
Les: Yes. Nothing but potential.
Hugh: Tamara is here. You picked up the phone, called us, and said, “Let’s get together.” So we came. You are a man of influence. Leaders are a lot of things, but number one, leaders are influencers. You influence us as well as the rest.
Tamara has a real high-level consulting career. She is leaving that to come and help put this together and make sure it is done right. Why did you say yes to being a part of this- I’m going to call it a movement, is that all right? Why, Tamara, did you say yes to this?
Tamara: When we talk about Les Brown in my house, you should hear what me and my husband say. My husband is so supportive of me going with Les Brown, helping him with his vision. He says, “You’re not just doing this for Les Brown; you’re doing it for the world.” He has influence over the world. That is extremely important. I get excited about his vision, the things he wants to do.
I am a mother of four. I understand the mindset and how important it is to change people’s mindsets, particularly in children. With my own children, I teach them who they really are. Sometimes it works against me. I have a 13-year-old son, and I promise you when he was about nine years old, my girls had gone out and he stayed home. I asked them, “Why don’t you take your brother with you?” They said that he is staying home today to work on his back flip. I said, “His back flip?” “Yeah, he is down in the basement working on his back flip.” I say, “He can’t do a back flip?” I go downstairs and ask him, “Son, what are you doing?” He said, “Don’t worry. I am not doing the back flips yet. I am working on it in my mind.” I said, “What?” He said, “You said if I put my mind to it, I can do anything.” You know what? You’re right. Let’s both of us put our minds on lessons before back flipping in the basement.
Having four children and seeing their growth and actually inputting the things I put into them, I know how important it is to work on mindset. When Les talks about the mindset of children and incarcerated persons, I wholeheartedly believe in that, and I want to help flesh out his vision. You have a visionary, you have a details person, we work well together.
Hugh: As part of my series, I interviewed Cal Turner. Cal Turner went to his executive team at Dollar General and said, “My dad founded this company. I got this job because of my genes, not because of my skill. But I have the vision. You got the skill. We’re going public.” They went public, and it was very successful. They sold it later, and everybody received a lot of rewards for that. They all stepped up because he let them step up because he was the influencer and the visionary. He said to me, “Hugh, leadership is about defining your gaps and finding really good people to fill them.” That is part of my leadership education program now. Cal has influenced me. He is older than us, just a little bit, but he is still out there sharing his wisdom.
It’s not about you asking for help. It’s about you being a good leader, saying, “Here is my expertise.” What she just pointed out, you have the vision, you have the goods, and she has the details. I am pleased to be a part of this project. I am a NASCAR fan. They go faster when they draft together.
Les: Absolutely. One of the things that leaders also do is they are perpetually engaged in the process of a talent hunt, looking for people who have talent, skills, resources, access, and credibility that you don’t have. We can’t do the things we want to do by ourselves. One goose can fly 75% further in formation with other geese that it could never fly by itself.
Part of my training is I teach people to practice the principle of OQP, only quality people. Dr. Dennis said, “If you are the smartest one in your group, you need to get a new group.” I have seen Tamara. I know about her leadership skills, her integrity, her commitment, and she is a person who can get things done. She has propensity for detail. That is opposite of me. I am not a details person. My skill is in speaking and training people how to speak, but she knows how to put systems in to place, and complemented with your skills and knowledge, we will be able to build something that will outlive us. It will be part of the future we cannot see.
That is why I am excited about this new chapter in my life, building something that will outlast me and will be here long after I’m gone, that my grandchildren and great-grandchildren—I have three great-grandsons. My goal is to build something that will continuously transform people’s lives. My children share this vision as well and work with me. I am excited about what we can produce working with you and Tamara and also with the skillset and mindset of Sherita Herring. I believe what we are putting together is going to be an incredible movement that people can see, believe in, sink their teeth into, that they want to support.
We are going to train young people. My goal is to help young people develop a different kind of mindset, to reduce the bullying and suicide rates. Suicide among young people has increased over 300%. According to the Center for Disease out of Atlanta, over 3,000 people committed suicide last year in this country. More people died from suicide than traffic accidents. In the land of opportunity, where people try to outswim sharks to get here or outrun jeeps barefooted to get here, I believe that is the result of lack of hope. When there is hope in the future, that gives you power in the present. When you combine hope, methods, and collaborative achievement-driven supportive relationships, that when people take some hits, and we are all going to have some hits. We will help people to weather those storms. We will help people to have the wherewithal to weather those hits, and they will come from so many places.
One doctor looked at me and said three words no one ever wants to hear, “You have cancer,” those three most feared words in seven languages. I asked, “Can you get me a second opinion?” He said, “Yes, and you are ugly, too.”
Hugh: We did some drilling down on the sustainability, the continuity of this. We are going to invite people to be part of this tribe, to take on the programs. But you are going to train trainers to train other trainers. As far as the youth go, they are going to have peer-to-peer training. We are going to build a cadre of student leaders who will speak in a very different way to their peers. I think your pleasure is to start with those who are incarcerated because it is such a crisis and jails are full.
Les: They are. When you look at the jails, the juvenile detention centers, the prisons at both the state and federal level, the numbers are staggering. When we look at the things we can do to give them the support and the tools they need, and the mindset that you are worth something- If you are in a prison, you are not even recognized by your name but your number. The system as it is is designed to destroy a person’s sense of self. They treat them like animals. They get out and act like animals. We can do better than that. We are the United States of America.
When we look at young people today, and their behavior… I was on a bus to the airport. They have those shuttles. A lady got on with her mother, and her mother is a senior citizen. She was holding a small baby, and the mother was like eight months pregnant. You know those shuttles. They are rocky and not sturdy. If you are a pregnant woman, I got up and offered her my seat. She gladly sat down. There is a young guy sitting there. I said, “Brother, do you mind giving this lady your seat?” I was talking about the grandmother holding the baby. He said, “Hey, I paid my money just like she did,” and he wouldn’t get up. I just said, “Wow.” I felt bad for him.
I said to myself, “When I see these young guys with pants below their butt or they are disrespectful and have no sense of decency, I get angry with myself. I need to multiply my self through other people so that someone else can get in their ear other than what they are listening to every day that does not give them a vision of themselves in the future and keeps them in a very limited mindset.” It’s all about mindset. He thinks, and so as he continues to think, so he remains.
We spend no money on the county level, city level, state level on transforming mindsets. Not anything. That is where everything begins. We know that. They did a study on some top achievers around the world, over 3,000. They wanted to know what the common denominator was among them that caused them to reach their goals. They discovered that 85% of them reached their goals because of their attitude, 15% because of their aptitude. The training that we are going to provide is to train a trainer so that this is not surrounding and driven by a personality, but by systems and people who have a vision for our kids in the future, living in a global economy and operating at a higher level of consciousness where they can live a life of contribution as opposed to a life of liabilities.
Hugh: James Allen said—you triggered a quote—in his book A Man Thinketh, “People want to change their circumstances and are unwilling to change themselves. They therefore remain bound.”
Les: Yes, bound and stuck. That is where all the transformation takes place, in the mind. He also said something: You can’t destroy negative thoughts. They are like weeds. You can overpower them for a period of time, but once you stop doing the things that you do to get the clutter and the negative things out of your mind, then those negative thoughts come back with a vengeance and are stronger.
When I had a talk show, King World paid me $5 million. I became so busy and caught up and preparing to be on television and going through the training to be before the camera that I stopped my ritual of reading 30-40 pages every day. I stopped my ritual of listening to Earl Nightingale and Jim Rowan and Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins and other speakers every day because I was so busy preparing for television. Those negative thoughts came back. I forgot who I was. I was disconnected from my power. I just was not myself until after the program was cancelled. I took a hit. Things happened during that particular time, and I was not prepared to handle them. My best friend died. My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer and passed. I went through a divorce when I was married to Gladys. At that time, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. All of these things happened within 3-4 months. Had I been in my ritual, I would have been knocked down, but I would have been knocked out that I popped.
One thing I encourage people to do is maintenance work to maintain that level of consciousness so that when things happen to you, you can handle it. We have the ability to handle it. Dr. Howard Thurman, who was a mentor to Martin Luther King Jr and Mahatma Gandhi, he wrote Deep is the Hunger and The Voice of the Genuine, “There is something in each and every one of us that waits and listens for the voice of the genuine in ourselves. It will be perhaps the only guide we ever have or hear. If we cannot hear it all of our life, our days will be spent on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.” When you live your life from the inside out, you are literally saying, “Nobody, no circumstances, no situation will pull the strings of my mindset, my attitude, and how I feel about who I am and how I show up in life.” A profound thinker.
Hugh: Part of the track that you are laying down is that nurture that helps people not only continue learning, but also to stay on the track. You talked about four programs that you have now and have more in mind. What is the background on why you developed those? What are the circumstances around them? They are powerful programs. EDITED AND PULLED (46:15)
Les: I was a state legislator in Columbus, Ohio. I was elected to three terms. I became chairman of the Human Resource committee and the Education committee. I was a very controversial disc jockey, educating people on the things that maintain our detriment in the ‘80s, doing editorials, legislating against police brutality and the deadly use of force.
When I was in the legislature, a guy named Clarence King—who had worked with Werner Erhard to create an organization called est—one of the great icons of the South development, he came and sat in the legislature to watch me. He had heard about me being an effective communicator, and he had gotten a contract under the Carter Administration called PIC, Private Industry Council, to train people on welfare, how to transition from welfare to working and being self-sufficient. But he could not get them to be open to that. He saw me and asked me, “Would you come down and talk to them so that you can get them in the mindset to be open to what I could provide for them? If they can do that, I can train them and transform their lives from the inside out, but I can’t get them to listen.”
I came down and observed. He hired me as a consultant. My job was to come in first and train them. When I spoke at graduation, I went in a room three times, and I didn’t realize it was the same group of people. They were so transformed in how they were dressed, how clean-shaven they were. They looked like businesspeople. My God, I wanted to learn how to do that. When you speak, you only have 30 minutes to an hour, but I wanted to do more than just speak and leave. These people started doing the same thing they did before I came there.
I wanted to be able to create an experience that people will be preeminently transformed for and have the tools and coaches in place to review, repeat, and reinforce the principles that change their mindset. So I became a student of this, me and my mentor Mike Williams who wrote the book called The Road to Your Best Stuff. I started studying and reading everybody that put anything out there dealing with the mind. Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, The Power of Positive thinking. Zig Ziglar, See You at the Top. Winston Churchill, The Truth is Incontrovertible. Alice Metack, AT the end there it is. The New Psycho-Cibernetics. The Secret of the Ages, Robert Collier. Earl Nightingale, The Strangest Secret in the World. I read these books. I listened to these recordings, and I decided I was going to master this.
What I discovered from all these guys I studied, they had the complexion of connection. I had the complexion of rejection. So I could do all the things they told me to do, but I still wasn’t going to get that promotion. So I said, Wait a minute. I had to go back to the drawing board. How did Booker T. Washington and Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman- “Pray as if everything depends upon God, but work as if everything depends upon you.” I needed to know, What do you do if you are in a system that is stacked against you? How are you going to make it against all odds? I remember John H. Johnson in his book Succeeding Against the Odds said, “There is no defense against excellence that meets a pressing public need. When you have the complexion of rejection, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard, and you have to be committed to make it happen no matter what.”
You told me an incredibly inspiring story that drives my life. In 1961, John F. Kennedy asked Wernher von Braun, “What will it take for us to beat the Russians to the moon?” He said five words, and he decided to call a news conference just on those five words. He decided to risk the embarrassment of the United States of America by proclaiming to the world that we are going to the moon in ten years. We did it in eight years. Those five words were, “The will to do it.” I believe that if you are faced with being laid off; if you are going through a divorce; if you have been diagnosed with a terminal illness; if we want to reduce the teenage pregnancy rate, the dropout rate, the recidivism rate, we must incorporate those five words, the will to do it. Everything I believe comes out of that.
You are going to have some resistance. You will encounter some obstacles or setbacks, but if you have a will—where there is a will, there is a way. Jesus said, “Whoseever will, let him come.” If you have that mindset, there is an energy, there is a release of power and a presence in you that will allow you to overcome what appears to be insurmountable odds and do things that you don’t even know you can do right now.
I’ve seen some things, and I’ve been around. I’ve seen a thing or two. So I know these principles work. They work with me. They work with my children; I use them as guinea pigs. And it’s exciting and fun.
In this stage of my life, there are people who are listening right now who can hear me in their ears, but there are a few who can hear me in their heart. Because we all have an energy signature, there are certain people when you speak, they will hear you in their heart. If they heard Tamara or me, they will only hear us in their ears because of your energy signature, something about you. I believe that as we begin to duplicate ourselves and train people and get more voices and troops on the ground giving a message of hope and peace, and create a new conversation to create a different vision of how people see themselves and show up in life, that as we begin to increase those numbers, we will decrease the level of violence and mediocrity. We will decrease the things in our society that are maintaining our detriment. As we look at the words of Elsie Robinson, “Things happen around you and things happen to you, but the only things that really count are the things that happen in you.”
When people are stirred up and ignited to become a force for God, to be an instrument, to operate out of a thinking that “the least that you do unto these my brethren, you do it also unto me,” and that you have, as Horace Mann said, “We should be ashamed to die until we have made some major contribution to humankind.” Operating out of that sense of oneness that drove Mrs. Rosa Parks to step up for herself and refuse to get up and give a white person her seat and was incarcerated, there was something in her that said, “I ought to do this on this particular day” and was a defining moment in history. We all have defining moments in our lives. Denzel Washington was in a movie and said, “There are things in life that happen, and it appears like slow motion. There is before this, and there is after this. After this, nothing will ever be the same again.”
When I think about Mr. Lou I. Washington, I was in his class my junior year in school. He taught me to work out a problem on the board, and I said, “I’m not one of your students. I’m here to see MacArthur Stevens.” He said, “Doesn’t matter. Do what I’m telling you anyhow.” I said, “I can’t, sir.” The other kids started laughing. He said, “You see, he has a twin brother, Wesley. He’s smart. He’s the dumb twin.” I said, “I am, sir.” He came from behind his desk as they erupted in laughter. I was standing there, tears in my eyes with humiliation. He said, “Don’t ever say that again. Someone’s opinion of you does not have to become your reality.” That was a transforming moment in my life.
Even though I’ve never known my birth parents, this guy became like my spiritual father. I told Tamara, “I need to meet your mama because you look so much like me.” But he taught me how to tell time. I wanted to be like him. I watched him. He was an eloquent speaker. He was a speech and drama teacher. He influenced me. My goal is- I have a lot of spiritual sons and daughters out there who have adopted me and I have adopted them. I adopted Mr. Washington.
I remember eulogizing him and being at the celebration of his life. I watched his sons from an angle. When I spoke, they looked up at me, and none of his children spoke. We called him the great communicator. I realized something as I watched them: Even though he was their father, I knew a part of him that they never knew. I saw something in him that they never saw. That to me is one of the mysteries of life. How is it that people can be raised in a certain circumstance and end up dramatically different? Mr. Washington had thousands of kids, but he only had one Les Brown. So my goal before leaving the planet is: There are some other Les Browns out there who will do what I’ve done and will go even further, who will do more. They should do greater things. In this stage of my life, I am looking for people who are hungry to do the greater work.
Hugh: Tamara and I have agreed to be the arms and legs for this movement. You are the influencer. You have created magical content, and we are going to put it in a form that is accessible for more people. We are going to help you put together a plan so that people know how they can support this. There are a lot of ways for people to support it. One way is to join your tribe. There are lots of ways we are going to roll out in time. We are going to roll this out gradually.
The first stage is to get some funding in. We have a link. Is it the Les Brown Foundation?
Tamara: Yes, it’s lesbrownfoundation.com and lesbrownfoundation.org. We have both.
Hugh: Yes. We will have it set up to revert to a page so people can vote with dollars. They want to be a part of seeing this come to reality. The dollars are like putting gas in the car. It will make this run. There is no limit to the influence this movement can have and the impact it is going to have on our country. Just think of all those people who could be productive, who could get out of that cycle. We have done a whole lot of work in a short period of time. You are very clear. We were able to capture this vision and put some tactics around it and create a strategy that other people can understand. Is there a piece of this we haven’t touched on that you think we need to share with people?
Tamara: Just listening to his vision and getting people excited about what we’re doing is super important. I relaly think we have done a good job of rolling it out. Visit the website, see how you can support it. I think we have done a great job telling it today.
Les: I encourage people to go to the mindset and invest in this movement we are creating. It’s helping me to seal my deal with God. I remember saying, “God, if You help me get up off this floor,” when they have an emergency landing on a plane, they only do it if you are dead or dying. So I had a colonoscopy, and I got on a plane three days later and had internal bleeding I didn’t know I had. I remember when they said, “Is there a doctor on board?” and I had passed out in my chair and they laid me on the floor. They said that the guy came and checked my pulse and I had blood on the floor under me. His hands were soaked with blood from the internal bleeding that was coming out. He said, “We need to make an emergency landing.” They said, “It will only take us two and a half hours more to Detroit.” He said, “If you’re going to do that, then just strap him on the seat in the back and call the morgue and have them waiting. He won’t make it there.” That is when they made that emergency landing, and this guy who was a part of the emergency team said, “Hey, I know you, mister. You’re that man who helps people live their dreams. I got this job because of you.”
But I promised God. I said, “If You help me get through this, I’m going to go back to where I started.” I started out training youth and training in prisons. Marysville Penitentiary and Ohio Penitentiary. Jails and prisons across the country. I said, “I promise I will do Your will.” This allows me to seal that deed. I’m still here. I made a deal with God. I gave Him my word. “If You help me overcome this, I will be used by You to make this world a better place until I take my last breath.”
That’s what I want to do: make people feel good, laugh, know that I am not playing with a full deck, and make a difference, make a mark. We are very blessed to be in this country and to be a blessing to others. Naomi Brown, God took me out of my biological mother’s womb and placed me in the arms of my adopted mother. I am here because of two women. One gave me life, and the other one gave me love. So I am grateful to both of them. I feel that I was chosen for this. There is a time I couldn’t admit that. but I have had too many things, signs I have seen, that I know that a hand has been on my life. My steps have been ordered. Things I was encouraged to do and to learn. I don’t know where that came from. But I believe it’s a calling. Sometimes it takes you some time to recognize it. It’s a humbling experience, to feel that you have been chosen for something. So I am humbled because of that.
Hugh: Les Brown.
Les: Yes?
Hugh: Thank you for saying yes to this.
Les: Thank you and Tamara for saying yes to me and helping me do this. I appreciate you very much, more than you know. that’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it.
Hugh: Thank y’all for being here.
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