Episode description

Former director of MI5, Eliza Manningham-Buller, tells Matthew Parris why she regards Abraham Lincoln as a great life.

But will her hero stand up to intensive scrutiny and merit the description of having led a great life? The expert is Dr Tony Hutchison, from the American Studies Department at the University of Nottingham.

The producer is Perminder Khatkar.

First broadcast on BBC Radio 4 in 2016.