Episode description

Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy have called the federal bureaucracy an “existential threat to our republic.” Now, President-elect Donald J. Trump is empowering them to drastically shrink it, by whatever means necessary.

David A. Fahrenthold, an investigative reporter for The New York Times, discusses their plans — and what it would look like if they were actually carried out.

Guest: David A. Fahrenthold, an investigative reporter for The New York Times.

Background reading: 

• The so-called Department of Government Efficiency has advantages that past budget cutters did not, but laws and court challenges could still make change slow and difficult.

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