Pasteur Byabeza is the lead link of the Student Care Circle at Davis College, a higher learning institution in Rwanda. He is one of the pioneers who has been driving the college’s transition to becoming a self-managed, Holacratic organisation. Though they are early in their journey, taking steps like disbanding the global council and replacing management hierarchies with distributed decision making have already had a huge impact on people’s engagement levels. Pasteur shares what he has learned s...
Sep 27, 2021•43 min•Ep 65•Transcript available on Metacast Bayo Akomolafe is a Nigerian author, professor, chief curator of The Emergence Network and is often known for his poetic and provocative take on big topics such as global crisis and social change. We talk about what he calls 'generative incapacitation' and the kind of leadership that’s needed in these times, how the Covid pandemic is disrupting our norms, embracing failure and allowing ourselves to be lost... and I also posed some questions to him about my worries regarding the reinventing work ...
Sep 10, 2021•50 min•Ep 64•Transcript available on Metacast “Command authority is a poor basis for life.” Jocelyn Davis is an author, speaker and the former head of R&D at global consultancy The Forum Corporation. We talk about how she weaves together the threads of leadership, Eastern philosophy and dramatic literature. Her insights on group development, leadership as influence, and ‘climate’ in teams are really relevant for those interested in self-managing organisations. Resources: Jocelyn's book The Art of Quiet Influence Jocelyn’s website Jocelyn’s ...
Jul 01, 2021•59 min•Ep 63•Transcript available on Metacast Sam Conniff and Alex Barker’s books ‘Be More Pirate’ and ‘How to Be More Pirate’ have sparked a movement of people around the world who want to shake things up, to create new business models and systems that are better for people and planet. The tagline on their website says: "Being more pirate is a shift in your mindset; a willingness to think differently, to challenge and be challenged, and to stop asking for permission to do what you know is right.” I wanted to talk to Sam and Alex about what...
Jun 10, 2021•50 min•Ep 62•Transcript available on Metacast Topi Jokinen is one of the founders of a small Finnish company in the construction sector called Vertia. Since 2018, Topi has been leading a transformation in the company based on the idea of self-organising cells to help it grow and develop. He is perhaps the first CEO I have met who has done this level of personal and professional development and he shares with heart and humility what his leadership journey has been. We also talk about Vertia’s radical structures and practices, such as a trans...
May 25, 2021•51 min•Ep 61•Transcript available on Metacast Filmmakers Anna Thomson and David Baksh talk to me about Yoghurt Utopia, their documentary about a yoghurt company whose mission is to provide work and accommodation for people living with mental illness in the Catalonia region in Spain. Having spent several years with some of the workers of La Fageda and its inimitable founder, Cristobal Colon, they share what they have learned about this remarkable workplace and what lessons we can learn in terms of diversity, inclusion, and meaning at work. R...
Mar 30, 2021•53 min•Ep 60•Transcript available on Metacast Yuji Yamada is the founder of EnFlow and is interested in exploring the differences between approaching organisational transformation from a ‘Western lens’ and a Japanese lens. We talk about teal organisations from Frederic Laloux’s book ‘Reinventing Organisations’ (which has sold 100,000 copies in Japan) and Yuji’s homegrown concept of ‘Jinen management’. Could East Asian organisations be at an advantage in developing new ways of working by drawing on their ancient wisdom and inherent cultural ...
Mar 01, 2021•54 min•Ep 59•Transcript available on Metacast Rich and Nati are the founders of collaboration consultancy The Hum and part of the Enspiral network. Between them, they have a background in activism, engineering, community organising and entrepreneurship and are well-respected thought leaders when it comes to decentralised organisations, self-managing teams and collaborative culture. We talk about personal shifts, ‘trojan horse’ radical practices, and ideas for moving from a domination society to a partnership society. How to follow Rich and ...
Feb 15, 2021•1 hr 7 min•Ep 58•Transcript available on Metacast Nand Kishore Chaudhary is the remarkable founder of Jaipur Rugs, a company employing 40,000 weavers in 600 villages selling beautiful carpets in 40 countries. The artisans – most of them women in India’s “untouchable” class – are the “heroes of the business”, and self-managed principles like distributed decision making have long been a hallmark of the company. We talk about how N. K. Chaudhary has created a “business ashram”, where people find their clarity of purpose and gain higher consciousne...
Feb 02, 2021•47 min•Ep 57•Transcript available on Metacast Anna Elgh is the CEO of Svenska Retursystem, a Swedish circular economy logistics company. We talk about the transformations she has led at the company since joining in 2014, from Lean to nearly three years of moving towards self-managing teams. She shares what she has learned about transforming conflicts, distributed decision making, disbanding the management team, as well as leadership and the power of letting go. Resources: Svenska Retursystem’s website The book Lisa has co-authored with Kari...
Nov 03, 2020•50 min•Ep 56•Transcript available on Metacast Frederic Laloux is the author of the book 'Reinventing Organisations' and one of the leading figures in the new ways of working movement, coining the term ‘teal organisation’ which consists of three breakthroughs: self-management, wholeness, and evolutionary purpose. We talk about how we can use juicy questions to explore new frontiers of what’s possible in our organisations and lives. Questions like: “Where are you participating in a system where you're actually out of integrity?” Frederic shar...
Oct 09, 2020•1 hr 20 min•Ep 55•Transcript available on Metacast Bill Fischer is a Professor of Innovation Management at IMD and Simone Cicero is the cofounder of Boundaryless and co-creator of the Platform Design Toolkit. We talk about what they have learned from years of studying and collaborating with the Chinese company Haier Group, whose Rendanheyi organisational model has been praised internationally as one of the most revolutionary management ideas of the 21st century. Our conversation explores the extraordinary leadership of CEO Zhang Ruimin, eliminat...
Sep 10, 2020•1 hr 26 min•Ep 54•Transcript available on Metacast Jabi Salcedo and Dunia Reverter are coordinators at K2K Emocionando , a Spanish consultancy that has transformed more than 85 organisations from traditional to self-managing over the last two decades. We talk about the radical components of their methodology, such as removing manager roles, balancing salaries, shared decision-making and profit sharing. Jabi and Dunia share what they’ve learned from the transformations they have been part of, the kinds of shifts they’ve seen, and what some of the...
Aug 27, 2020•1 hr 8 min•Ep 53•Transcript available on Metacast Jorge Silva is the co-founder of 10Pines, a self-managing software development company in Argentina. We talk about three key practices they have as a horizontal organisation, what they’re learning, and Jorge’s vision to spread this way of working in South America. How to follow Jorge: Twitter: @jor_silva Resources: A web page about 10Pines’ culture Jorge’s blog about how 10Pines does recruitment More about Loomio , the tool they use for decisions The Leadermorphosis episode with Anabel Montiel f...
Jul 02, 2020•59 min•Ep 52•Transcript available on Metacast Mark Eddleston, new ways of working consultant and coach and cofounder of the Reinventing Work movement, interviews Lisa Gill as they look back on 50 episodes of the Leadermorphosis podcast. Which conversations have changed their thinking? How has the podcast evolved? What is the next phase of the new ways of working movement? How to follow Mark: Twitter: @marco_eds Resources: Reinventing Work website Mark's website The book Lisa Gill and Karin Tenelius have written, Moose Heads on the Table Lea...
Jun 16, 2020•48 min•Ep 51•Transcript available on Metacast Dr Tjanara Goreng Goreng is a Wakka Wakka Wulli Wulli Traditional Owner from Central Queensland, Australia, and Robyn Katz is the founder of Talkpoint, which curates peer-to-peer learning experiences to humanise work. We talk about Tjanara’s PhD research which draws parallels between aboriginal culture and eldership, and Robert Kegan’s psychological development research and the idea of “sacred leadership”. Both women share what they have learned through their own personal transformation journeys...
Jun 03, 2020•1 hr 10 min•Ep 50•Transcript available on Metacast Peter Koenig has spent the last decade researching principles for how founders organise and materialise their enterprises, projects and initiatives – what he calls sourcework. We talk about the role of source and source principles and the idea of seeing organisations as energetic fields. We talk about why his work has sparked debate in “new ways of working” circles, as well as how we can use the lens of source to diagnose decentralised organisations when we seem to get stuck. Peter also shares s...
May 06, 2020•1 hr 25 min•Ep 49•Transcript available on Metacast Luz Iglesias, Director of Recruitment, and Edwin Jansen, Head of Corporate Development, work at Ian Martin Group , a self-managed, teal recruitment company with 400 employees across Canada and India. They share examples and stories of the initiatives, decisions and creativity that have sprung up in response to the COVID-19 pandemic without any central coordination, and how adaptability and humanity can flow freely in a self-organised system because of the mindset shift it facilitates. As former ...
Apr 29, 2020•50 min•Ep 48•Transcript available on Metacast Skeena Rathor, who co-leads the Vision Sensing circle in Extinction Rebellion, shares insights from inside this decentralised movement – how their Holacratic, Sociocratic structures support its collective purpose, the work they’re doing with Miki Kashtan to transform power dynamics, and why Skeena’s dream is for XR to become a touchstone for the work of co-liberation. We also talk about how XR is responding to COVID-19 and their AloneTogether campaign. How to follow Extinction Rebellion: Twitter...
Apr 17, 2020•54 min•Ep 47•Transcript available on Metacast Devin Carberry, Director of Learning Programs, and two learners, 16-year-old Gerard Almenara, and 12-year-old Samir Shariputra Chopra, share their experiences of what it’s like to be part of Learnlife in Barcelona. Learnlife is reinventing education by creating an open ecosystem for a lifelong learning paradigm. People of all ages are supported to become self-directed learners and develop the skills to be responsible community members. This is the future of education and the Learnlife model has ...
Mar 26, 2020•54 min•Ep 46•Transcript available on Metacast Amy Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School and the author of “Teaming” and “The Fearless Organisation”. We talk about her journey of researching psychological safety and teaming, as well as the paper she co-wrote about self-managing organisations. Amy shares insightful and practical lessons about leadership, how to be a good team member, and the future of work. How to follow Amy: Twitter: @AmyCEdmondson Resources: Amy’s profile on the HBS page...
Mar 10, 2020•45 min•Ep 45•Transcript available on Metacast Vivek Menon leads a high growth business unit at Danfoss Power Solutions called eSteering. Their purpose is to build the future steering solutions for off road vehicles. He shares how eSteering works without managers and why he thinks the future of organisations, especially large ones, is building the capacity to be ambidextrous – creating ecosystems where traditionally structured and decentralised teams or units can coexist. Vivek believes there are three components to develop when it comes to ...
Feb 20, 2020•53 min•Ep 44•Transcript available on Metacast Bonnitta Roy is an author, trainer and creator of the OPO (Open Participatory Organisation), which is a framework people are using to experiment with more collaborative ways of working. She is well-loved in the world of Agile for her approaches to complexity and thinking about human systems. Bonnitta shares examples from her work of moves we can make towards more open and participatory organisations. How to follow Bonnitta: Twitter: @bonnittaroy Resources: The OPO Manifesto You can preview Bonni...
Feb 14, 2020•58 min•Ep 43•Transcript available on Metacast Ved Krishna is Strategy Head at Yash Pakka, a compostable tableware manufacturer based in Faizabad, India that has been experimenting with organisational self-management since 1999. Ved talks with a lot of heart and honesty about his journey of taking over the family business, then firing himself as CEO and now working from a place of deeper purpose. He also shares the ups and downs of trying to develop self-management in a culture where hierarchy is very strongly ingrained. How to follow Ved: T...
Feb 03, 2020•40 min•Ep 42•Transcript available on Metacast Michael Y. Lee is an Assistant Professor of Organisational Behaviour at INSEAD who researches novel and innovative ways of organising. After reading the paper he co-authored with Amy Edmondson on self-managing organisations, I wanted to talk to him to get his academic perspective on this phenomena. He shares what we can learn from self-managing organisations about leadership and how to collaborate in a more decentralised way without sacrificing coordination. We also discuss his research into the...
Dec 15, 2019•54 min•Ep 41•Transcript available on Metacast Bryan Ungard is the Chief Purpose Officer at Decurion. Decurion is a parent company of a number of businesses, including movie theatres, real estate and senior living, but it's less famous for what it does and more for why and how it does it (as featured in the book “An Everyone Culture”). We talk about Deliberately Developmental Organisations, Bryan’s thoughts on why feedback can be dangerous, what he makes of the trend towards self-managing organisations, and how we can help our organisations ...
Nov 06, 2019•53 min•Ep 40•Transcript available on Metacast Andreas Flodström and Gustav Henman are the founders of Beetroot, a remarkable IT company set up in 2012 to create social impact in Ukraine. We talk about how culture has played an important role in their self-managed way of organising, the challenges of scaling (from 380 to 1000+ in the next four years), and the tough leadership lessons they’ve learned as founders as the company has grown. Follow Beetroot: Twitter: @beetroot_se Resources: The Beetroot website A blog I wrote for the Corporate Re...
Oct 14, 2019•54 min•Ep 39•Transcript available on Metacast Meg Lightheart is a leadership and presentation coach and helps organisations become more inclusive and agile. Meg shares what she’s learned from her research, work, and her own personal experiences as a trans woman about topics like leadership, adult development, and diversity, equity and inclusion. It’s an insightful and thoughtful conversation full of humour and heart. Follow Meg: Twitter: @megalightheart Resources: Meg’s website Book: In Over Our Heads: The Mental Demands of Modern Life by R...
Sep 30, 2019•52 min•Ep 38•Transcript available on Metacast Miki Kashtan is an author and an international teacher and practitioner of Nonviolent Communication. In this conversation we talk about the three different places shifts need to occur in order for a self-managing human system to thrive, and how we can start to talk about needs more in order to awaken the collective responsibility of groups of people working together. She also shares the five core systems we need to redesign in our organisations as well as the mindset shifts and dialogue skills w...
Sep 16, 2019•48 min•Ep 37•Transcript available on Metacast Manuel Küblböck is an org design and transformation coach at German fintech company Gini . We talk about the models Gini has developed for self-organisation and how they have defined together terms like power, hierarchy, and autonomy. He also shares challenges like how to foster leadership in a self-organising company, how to make decisions effectively together and how to develop healthy relationships within the team. How to follow Manuel: Twitter: @ManuelKublbock Resources: Manuel’s blogs: “ Ho...
Sep 03, 2019•43 min•Ep 36•Transcript available on Metacast 
