CORRECTION: In an earlier version of this episode, our guest incorrectly stated that in the case of a hung jury, a defendant cannot be retried without risking double jeopardy. This is incorrect. If the jury hangs, then the defendant can be retried. We have edited the episode to remove this and apologize for the error. It’s nearly time for the jury to begin their deliberations. They’ll file into a backroom at the courthouse, and SBF’s fate will be in their hands. But what goes on behind those doo...
Nov 02, 2023•21 min•Ep 18•Transcript available on Metacast We're finally in the home stretch. Today the prosecution finished their cross examination of Sam Bankman-Fried, the defense followed up with a redirect, and then both sides rested. It’s Michael’s last day at court, but Lidia Jean will attend until the bitter end. They sit down to talk through the trial day’s events. This conversation was recorded on October 31. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com To access bonus episodes, and to li...
Nov 01, 2023•24 min•Ep 17•Transcript available on Metacast Sam Bankman-Fried finishes direct and faces withering cross-examination by the government’s chief prosecutor, Danielle Sassoon. Michael Lewis and Lidia Jean Kott share notes during lunch, then Lidia Jean sits down with Pushkin financial reporter and host Jacob Goldstein to talk through the day’s events. This conversation was recorded on October 30. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all o...
Oct 31, 2023•14 min•Ep 16•Transcript available on Metacast The day is finally upon us: Sam Bankman-Fried takes the stand. Michael Lewis and Lidia Jean meet up after a long day in court and discuss everything that went down. This conversation was recorded on October 27. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all of our coverage ad-free, sign up for Pushkin plus on the Against The Rules show page in Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin.fm/plus . See omnystudio...
Oct 28, 2023•21 min•Ep 15•Transcript available on Metacast Michael Lewis finishes his book tour and joins Lidia Jean Kott in court. His timing, as usual, is impeccable. The government rests its case. And then, everyone thinks Sam Bankman-Fried will take the stand. Instead, in a surprise twist, Judge Kaplan sends the jury home. LJ and Michael meet up on the courthouse steps to talk through the day’s events. This conversation was recorded on October 26. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com To...
Oct 27, 2023•18 min•Ep 14•Transcript available on Metacast After a few days off, the trial resumes tomorrow, October 26. The prosecution has said they will likely be ready to rest their case by midday. Michael Lewis, Lidia Jean Kott and Rebecca Mermelstein, a partner at the law firm O’Melveny & Myers, sit down to analyze the prosecution’s case and talk about what might happen next, including the possibility of Sam Bankman-Fried taking the stand. This conversation was recorded on October 23. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in ...
Oct 25, 2023•29 min•Ep 13•Transcript available on Metacast Voices of the victims of Sam Bankman-Fried’s alleged crimes have been few and far between during the prosecution’s presentation of its case. On today’s show, Lidia Jean Kott sits down with Jake Thacker, a tech worker from Portland, Oregon who borrowed money to bet big on FTX, only to be left holding the bag. He says he’s now bankrupt and unsure whether he’ll be able to keep his home. This conversation was recorded on October 23. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show...
Oct 24, 2023•21 min•Ep 12•Transcript available on Metacast Another week come and gone, and like everything SBF, it wasn’t without a healthy dose of drama. Lidia Jean Kott catches Michael Lewis and Jacob Goldstein up on all that has gone down. This conversation was recorded on the evening of October 19. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com To access bonus episodes, and to listen to all of our coverage ad-free, sign up for Pushkin plus on the Against The Rules show page in Apple Podcasts or a...
Oct 20, 2023•18 min•Ep 11•Transcript available on Metacast When nerdy gamer Sam Bankman-Fried rocketed to fame as the world’s richest 29-year-old, he pledged to donate his billions to good causes. But when Sam's crypto exchange FTX collapsed, billions of dollars went missing, and Sam was in handcuffs, those who knew him were left wondering — who was Sam really? A well-meaning billionaire who made a mistake? Or a calculated con man? From Wondery and Bloomberg, the makers of The Shrink Next Door, comes a new story of incredible wealth, betrayal, and what ...
Oct 19, 2023•9 min•Transcript available on Metacast Today on the show, Michael talks with Matt Levine, business columnist at Bloomberg News and author of the newsletter “Money Stuff.” Matt knows more about how crypto markets work than just about anyone else. And also about how they don’t work. Like when there’s a more than eight billion dollar hole nobody seems to have been able to fill. Matt and Michael talk trial, SBF and FTX. This conversation was recorded at 2pm on October 17. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our sho...
Oct 18, 2023•27 min•Ep 10•Transcript available on Metacast It was supposed to be a quiet Monday in court, but it turned out to be everything but. Nishad Singh, a former top executive at FTX, and a close personal friend of the Bankman-Fried family took the stand. Lidia Jean calls Michael Lewis from court during her lunch break to get his take on Singh, and updates us with the latest as the SBF trial enters its third week. This conversation was recorded on the evening of October 16. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes...
Oct 17, 2023•9 min•Ep 9•Transcript available on Metacast Week 2 of Sam Bankman-Fried’s trial is in the books. The prosecution has called witnesses, including star witness Caroline Ellison, and the defense has cross-examined. There have been dramatic, emotional moments, a secret recording and laughter in the overflow rooms. Lidia Jean has been in court, and Michael has been on book tour. In this episode they catch each other up. Michael is curious how the characters he got to know while reporting his book have come off in court. This conversation was r...
Oct 16, 2023•26 min•Ep 8•Transcript available on Metacast Caroline Ellison, former co-CEO of Alameda Research and Sam Bankman-Fried’s ex-girlfriend, spent 3 days on the stand this week. Ellison recently pled guilty to financial fraud, and is cooperating with the prosecution. In this episode Lidia Jean Kott discusses Caroline’s testimony with Jacob Goldstein, financial reporter and author of the book Money. This conversation was recorded in the evening on October 12. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting a...
Oct 13, 2023•18 min•Ep 7•Transcript available on Metacast Caroline Ellison, former co-CEO of Alameda Research and Sam Bankman-Fried’s ex-girlfriend, takes the stand and has a lot to say. Ellison recently pled guilty to financial fraud, and is cooperating with the prosecution. In this episode Lidia Jean Kott discusses what came up on Day 1 of Caroline’s testimony with Jacob Goldstein, financial reporter and author of the book Money. This conversation was recorded in the evening on October 10. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in ou...
Oct 11, 2023•17 min•Ep 6•Transcript available on Metacast Week 1 of Sam Bankman-Fried’s trial is in the books. The jury is seated, opening statements have been given, and witnesses are taking the stand. Lidia Jean has been in court, and Michael has been on book tour. In this episode they catch each other up. Michael wants to know what it’s like inside the courtroom, and Lidia Jean is curious about what new information Michael is learning. This conversation was recorded on October 7. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show no...
Oct 09, 2023•21 min•Ep 5•Transcript available on Metacast SBF’s trial has been on for three days, and a lot has happened: jury selection, opening statements, and the first witnesses. Pushkin co-founder Jacob Weisberg sits down with reporter Lidia Jean Kott and Rebecca Mermelstein, a partner at the law firm O’Melveny and Myers, to talk about what’s happened in court so far. This conversation was recorded on October 5 at 3 pm ET. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com To listen to all of our c...
Oct 06, 2023•23 min•Ep 4•Transcript available on Metacast The trial of former FTX CEO Sam Bankman-Fried got underway yesterday in the Southern District of New York. First order of business? Empanelling a jury. Reporter Lidia Jean Kott was there. To get more insight into how jury selection works, Lidia Jean sat down with trial consultant Ellen Leggett. Their episode was recorded on October 2 at 6pm ET, with an update after court on October 3. Questions for Michael? Submit them by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting atrpodcast.com To listen t...
Oct 04, 2023•32 min•Ep 3•Transcript available on Metacast Sam Bankman-Fried's trial starts today in the formidable Southern District of New York, with Judge Lewis A. Kaplan presiding. If convicted, the former multi-billionaire and CEO of crypto exchange FTX could spend the rest of his life behind bars. In this episode, Michael talks with court reporter and producer Lidia Jean Kott and former Southern District of New York prosecutor Rebecca Mermelstein, now a defense attorney with O'Melveny and Myers, about the charges against Sam and what we might expe...
Oct 03, 2023•30 min•Ep 2•Transcript available on Metacast For the past year and a half, journalist Michael Lewis has been following crypto entrepreneur and former CEO of FTX Sam Bankman-Fried. The resulting book, "Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon", is out October 3. When Michael started his reporting, SBF was heralded as a wunderkind, a genius, a crypto innovator, a major philanthropist and political donor. Now, Sam Bankman-Fried is standing trial on multiple charges, including wire fraud, securities fraud, and misusing billions of dol...
Oct 02, 2023•33 min•Ep 1•Transcript available on Metacast Just a year ago, Sam Bankman-Fried was heralded as a wunderkind, a genius, a crypto innovator, a major philanthropist and political donor. He was worth tens of billions of dollars. FTX, the crypto exchange he founded, was buying Super Bowl ads. Now, he’s standing trial on multiple fraud charges. If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life behind bars. “Judging Sam: The Trial of Sam Bankman-Fried” is a special series from Michael Lewis and Against the Rules covering the daily workings of th...
Sep 25, 2023•2 min•Transcript available on Metacast The former CEO of now-bankrupt crypto firm FTX, Sam Bankman-Fried has been charged with fraud and conspiracy. His trial is supposed to begin in October. In the final episode of On Background, Michael Lewis speaks to former prosecutor Rebecca Mermelstein, now a defense attorney with O’Melveny and Myers, about how prosecutors are building the case against Bankman-Fried, and how his defense team can prepare him. For our coverage of Sam Bankman-Fried’s trial, check back here soon! See omnystudio.com...
Sep 12, 2023•30 min•Ep 15•Transcript available on Metacast In the battles over gun rights, a shadowy English nobleman from the 17th century has unexpectedly taken center stage. Who was he? What did he do that has — 300 years later — endeared him to a generation of legal scholars? Revisionist History explores the cult of personality around the mysterious Sir John Knight. Enjoy this episode from Revisionist History , another Pushkin Industries podcast. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
Aug 31, 2023•48 min•Transcript available on Metacast During the 2022 election cycle, crypto mogul Sam Bankman-Fried gave as much as $40 million in political donations. That whopping sum caught the attention of campaign finance watchdogs, even before Bankman-Fried was arrested and charged with various financial crimes. Michael Lewis talks to Jordan Libowitz of the Campaign for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) to understand the complex world of campaign finance law. And we hear why SBF, in confessing his dark-money deeds, may be a game...
Aug 15, 2023•29 min•Ep 14•Transcript available on Metacast Andy Mitchell could be called a "doctor for business." His firm, Lantern Asset Management, buys up businesses in immediate need of cash and willing to sell at bargain-basement prices. Michael Lewis calls up Mitchell to get the "distressed asset" angle on the company at the center of Lewis's next book: the now extremely distressed crypto exchange, FTX. But along the way, we hear about other businesses on the skids, including the maker of Twinkies, and the Weinstein Company. Head to atrpodcast.com...
Jul 11, 2023•35 min•Ep 13•Transcript available on Metacast Sharing a preview of Lost Hills Season 3: The Dark Prince. Host Dana Goodyear takes a deep dive into the surf world to explore the legacy of Malibu's Dark Prince, Miki Dora. A surfer known for his style, grace and aggression, he ruled Malibu from the 1950s to the 1970s. Celebrated for his rebellious spirit, he was also a conman who led the FBI on a 7-year manhunt around the world. Hear it all at: https://apple.co/losthills See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
Jun 29, 2023•11 min•Transcript available on Metacast One-time crypto-currency king Sam Bankman-Fried was a big proponent of a philosophical movement known as “effective altruism,” or EA. Advocates of EA say we should use data and reason to find the best ways of doing good. EA’s popularity grew as investors like Bankman-Fried used it to guide generous donations to causes. Micheal Lewis speaks with two college students who got involved in effective altruism through clubs at their universities. Gabriel Mukobi and aL Xin explain the philosophy behind ...
Jun 13, 2023•34 min•Ep 12•Transcript available on Metacast If you spend any time reporting on the world of crypto currency and Bitcoin, then you’re going to run across the name Molly White. She’s a software engineer who has been called "the cryptocurrency world's biggest critic." Michael Lewis gets her on the line for a lively conversation about why she spotted hucksterism and fraud early on in crypto's rise. Questions for Michael? Submit them by visiting atrpodcast.com . See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
May 16, 2023•32 min•Ep 11•Transcript available on Metacast Often when a corporation declares bankruptcy, that happens at the end of a long and difficult road. But entering bankruptcy proceedings also means setting out on a new and equally difficult road. That’s where Michael Lewis finds the subject of his next book, Sam Bankman-Fried. The company Bankman-Fried founded, FTX, entered bankruptcy late last year. For some perspective on what could be one of the messiest bankruptcy cases of recent times, Michael turns to David Skeel. Skeel is a professor of c...
Apr 11, 2023•33 min•Ep 10•Transcript available on Metacast Why do people commit white-collar crimes? And how has the way we think about — and prosecute — white-collar criminals changed over time? As part of the background research for his next book, which is about Sam Bankman-Fried and FTX, Michael Lewis wants the historical view of financial fraudsters, embezzlers and Ponzi schemers. So he speaks with Eugene Soltes, professor at the Harvard Business School and author of Why They Do It: Inside the Mind of the White-Collar Criminal . If you have a questi...
Mar 14, 2023•39 min•Ep 9•Transcript available on Metacast For his next book, Michael Lewis wants to find out how investigators manage to trace the murky trail of illicit crypto. Cryptocurrency started with the dream of cash changing hands without a trace. But that dream has turned into a nightmare for many would-be criminals. A new field has emerged of data geeks and law-enforcement experts trying to find out who’s behind transactions on the blockchain. Michael calls up Andy Greenberg, senior cybersecurity writer for WIRED and author of “Tracers in the...
Feb 14, 2023•36 min•Ep 8•Transcript available on Metacast 
