Hey's your listeners. I'm Christine, one of the producers on Zero. Today we're sharing an episode from another climate podcast that you might like. It's called the Anti Dread Climate Podcast from KCRW. Please enjoy and if you like what you hear, check them out wherever you get your podcasts.
Candice, what is your experience if you try to get somebody on board with like composting or bringing a reusable water bottle to the office, or like any kind of those like climate friendly life changes.
Oh, that's my life right. As an environmental educator, I spend so much time going and just answering, mostly answering questions. I will say that it's not always me running up people going stop, yeah in the name of the climate. It's a lot of answering questions like well, what's better a fake Christmas tree or a real Christmas tree? And answer that question all the time. So these are the sorts of things that happened. So my experience is that
I try to be a resource, not a regulator. That's my perspective.
That is a really hard line to tread. I think it really depends on you know, like if they ask me like, oh, well, should this go in this bin, or if I'm showing up and being like, hey, did you know you put that in the wrong spot? Yes, I don't mind being either one of them. Right. And actually this is sort of the topic that Karina wrote in about because she is trying to tread that really
fine line too. She she lives in North Hollywood. She works in a at a dramatic arts college in Los Angeles, and so because she works in office space, she sees a lot of plastic and paper waste come through every day.
I see.
I was wondering if there are any like tips or tricks about how I can influence people in the faculty lounge to be more eco conscious every day.
So she really cares. She really wants to bring this up to her manager and her coworkers.
But I don't want to be like that person that's like policing the faculty lounge and being like, are you going to reuse that paper cover? Are you going to recycle that plastic bottle? Because we have recycling bins over here. You know it doesn't have to go in the trash, it could go in don't want to be that person.
It's hard. Being a climate cop is hard.
Well, I would much rather be a climate Charlie's Angel.
Than Charlie's angel.
Surely that that's how I picture myself. But no, that is so difficult, and you don't want to be that person, and eventually people stop listening to that person, so then you're not evening effective as being that person. So I get it again what she's asking about.
Yeah, so, Karina, as you can tell, this really resonates with us. I find myself in your shoes all the time. I have gently nudged and not so gently nudged my family and my coworkers and my friends, and I get it. Like, doing this without being annoying is really not easy, absolutely, but let's give it a shot anyway. From KCRW, this is the Anti Dread Climate Podcast, Your practical personal guide to protecting the Planets. I'm Kaylie Wells, kcw's climate reporter.
And I'm Candasick and Trustle environmental educator and CEO at Friends in the La River. So this is really a behavioral psychology of question. You're trying to alter behavior in a way that doesn't make people resistant or mad, or annoyed or just stop listening to you after a.
While, exactly, And that's what makes this so tough, which is why I talked to this guy named Ken Donnelly. He is president of a group called Beyond Attitude Consulting, which is exactly the kind of business that you hire. If say you're a company and you've decided you're going to be really climate friendly, and you're trying to get all your employees on board with these climate friendly changes.
We know from behavioral research that just because somebody thinks something is a good idea and they know all the reasons is it's a good idea, it doesn't mean they'll do it.
And sort of the way he made that point to me is, think about donating blood. We all agree that donating blood is probably a good thing to do, but then when you look around at all the people who have actually donated blood, it's something like less than four percent of people actually do it. Absolutely, So an easy place to start is to make this more eco friendly thing the default.
Yes, that definitely is the answer. So putting the coffee mugs out on the table, but the paper cups like in a drawer. That's kind of a way make people work for the least desirable option a little more.
Yeah, yeah, have you because I know you've worked in more offices than I have. Have you done anything like that? Does it work?
Yeah?
It does work. I remember when at my last office we had a kurrig and those are just you know, everything that goes with being having a kurag. And you have these little disposable ca cups that people were using, and we were people were taking turns of buying them,
et cetera. Well, I bought this little green, reusable ca cup that you could refill with coffee, and I bought really nice coffee to go in there and just kind of put the cacups off to the side, and eventually people stop buying cacups and would just come in and fill up the little reusable cakeup and use it over and over again. So it was perfect. So it's this gradual phasing out through.
It's like positive reinforcement.
It's like positive reinforcement, yes, kind of making the negative harder to do.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean the kind of things that Donnelly mentioned were make it so that lights turn off automatically in a room, or that the printer automatically prints double sided so it doesn't take extra effort for somebody to do something more climate friendly. That's just sort of the default. And if you want to be worse to the planet, you have to try harder to be worse to the planet.
Right, right, So it makes perfect sense to do things that are automatic in default, but not every climate friendly thing is automatic or can be put on the default.
That's true. I mean a lot of helping the planet is going to require some effort. So he said, start with the small asks, like hey, do you mind turning off the lights in the room that does not turn off automatically before you leave? And when people start doing those smaller things, they look at themselves like, hey, I'm
a good steward of the earth. And so you just have to get them on board with the smaller things before they are more likely to get on board with these harder things because that aligns with this new identity that they have for themselves.
Interesting.
His other point is try to get people committed. So don't just say hey, could you bring your own water bottle to work? Be like, hey, can I can? I count on you to be one of these people who brings your own water bottle to work.
One of these beacons that's doing the right thing exactly that we can kind of share with.
Them, yeah, like a role model, right, And if they say yes, they're more likely to do that because in our society your word means a lot.
The important thing is that verbal commitments are strong, written commitments are stronger, and the public commitment is the strongest. So if people think that their name might be used, they're much more likely to do it.
Meaning like Okay, you could say, hey, do you mind putting your food waste in this organic bin and they'll say sure. But if you get them to sign a petition, or if you get them to like be on a bulletin board with the list.
Of greens, Yeah, which are the people who are going to be helping lead us into this new future.
It's better than a wall of It's like a wall of virtual reorment.
Yes, the virtuous loop. I like it. There's also this aspect of peer pressure, and that can be really useful. So if everyone around you is using a mug and you're the one person still going into the cabinet and reaching the back of the door to get a paper cup, you start to feel awkward about it. So if you get a bunch of people on your side, then suddenly that process begins to happen a lot faster. Yeah, a little bit of a tipping point.
Oh yeah, I remember what you're talking about with the tipping point. And this is sort of getting to one of his other main points that you can kick start that tipping point process by creating like a sustainability committee.
Right, yes, that green team.
Find some other people within your group that have similar concerns and want to see change, and set up a little committee that meets every so often. Not a great big deal, but then you start introducing the low hanging fruit, the things that are really easy to do but they make a difference.
This is sort of that point you made about not wanting to be climate cop.
Right.
Here are your climate Charlie's angels, that's.
Right, and they're all working together and they are examples for everyone else. So people see them doing it and they see, Okay, that's not that hard. It's not that hard to bring your water bottle, it's not that hard to put waste in its place, right, And that becomes this little bit of a spiral, right, can happen.
And it's no longer Karina being the annoying person, the annoying squeaky wheel, it's like, well, Karina's part of this whole movement right now.
And we're all going in that direction together. Time for takeaways? Okay, Karna, how do you make your office more eco friendly without causing an uproar. Make a team of like minded people so you're no longer a lone nagger.
Try to get people to commit. You could get them to sign something or at least say that they'll do something, because that is way going to increase the chance that they'll actually follow through with that commitment.
And make that climate friendly behavior easier. If you take away one option, fill it with another option that's more convenient.
Like your reusable kickups. Yeah, that's way cooly. Can't just tell me what the good news is this week?
Oh the good news so California is suing big oil.
Oh yeah, I've heard about this.
On September fifteenth, the state claimed that the actions of the biggest oil companies have caused tens of billions of dollars in damage and that they downplayed and deceive the public about the risks of fossil fuels. So the five companies that have been targeted are Exonmobile, Shell, BP, Conicle, Phillips, and Chevron, and the American Petroleum Institute is also in there somewhere. They're an industry trade group and their list
is a defendant as well. So the lawsuits trying to get the oil companies to set aside of fun so that when, not if things go terribly wrong for California because of climate change, it's the oil companies that will have to pay for it, will have to contribute to cleaning up and mitigating that problem.
Okay, And it makes sense that California joining this effort is a really big deal because you know, there're been other states that have done lawsuits like this, but we are the most populous state to file this suit, and California is this big producer of fossil fuels, so there are a lot of affected parties. Basically, the stakes are just a lot higher now, I guess.
And we get the job done. When California does something like this, it's meaningful.
Yeah, yeah, wow, great, And that's it this week on the Anti Dread Climate Podcast. If you haven't, please subscribe to this podcast and share it with the friend. We've got a newsletter that will have our advice every week. That's at KCRW dot com. Slash Climate. That's also where you can go if you want to ask us a question. Kcrw dot com slash climate.
Next week we're talking about one of my favorite projects.
Every single week, I have to either drive over to the farmer's market to drop off the compost or sneak into my neighbor's bins because my apartment building doesn't have the green composting bins. I'm curious whether composting is actually worth it, and if so, is there a difference between the different composting programs like the green bins that are provided by the city versus volunteer programs like La Compost.
I'm Kandae Sikons Russell, environmental educator and CEO of Friends of the La River.
I'm Kaylie Wells, climate reporter at KCRW. Our executive producer is Sonia Geiss, Our production assistant is Selene Mendiola. Technical director is John Meek and music by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs. The Anti Dread Climate podcast is a KCRW production.