¶ Introduction
Hey everyone. I'm Beth. And I'm Jeff. And this is your Your Enneagram Coach, the podcast. And we're here to help you to understand yourselves with astonishing clarity so that you can break free from self-condemnation, fear, and shame by knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom in Christ. And if you didn't know, we are on YouTube. So you can head over there, watch this podcast and definitely like and subscribe so you don't miss anything.
Well, today we're gonna be talking about the type eights wings, uh, which are seven and nine. If the concept of wings is new to you, we suggest going back to episode one 60, where we explain Enneagram wings in more detail. But essentially, wings are the two types directly next to your main type on the Enneagram symbol. So for example, I am a six, and so my wings are five and seven, and Beth here is a type nine. And so her wings
¶ Enneagram 8 wing 9
are type.
Well let's jump into the nine side. So the wing nine that you guys have, you know, I've noticed
over the past couple episodes we'll have to change it moving forward cuz you are taking the positive sides of the wings. I'm taking the necklace.
What? Did you do that on purpose? No, you did it on purpose. But you know, nines were positive. We're optimistic.
So yes, we're recording these. I'm starting to notice this trend. You know, we've done one, two, and three and then I'm like, wait, hold on. There's a trend now.
Yeah. Okay. So to the positive side of nines, um,
the nine we nines, we're not talking about.
We could, but Yes. Um, so the Wing nine can seem counterintuitive being that the eight is so, um, confident, assertive, decisive. Whereas the nines play a very different role. Um, the nines, you know, they're, they fear conflict and tension of any kind. They're looking for comfort, uh, inner, stability, peace of mind. And so these two can feel at odds and yeah, internally. I'm sure I know cuz I use my eight wing more than I do my one wing.
There is this internal conflict, and yet they both beautifully show up. So what I'd love to, to talk about is, um, is how the nine shows up for the eights in a very interesting, um, particular way. So for the eights, the nine is gonna show up and give you the ability to be more open, to be more receptive to other people's viewpoints because the aids are usually like, Nope, it's this way, this way, or the highway.
Um, whereas the night is complete opposites, like, I wanna know everyone's perspective and I wanna honor everyone's viewpoint. Everyone has a place at the table. And so the, the nine part of your heart offers this more kindness and compassion and openness, non-judgmental, uh, stance. It's not as black and white. It, it allows for a lot of gray to be there. Um, it's also very steadfast, and eights and nines are both very strong people, but they have strings in different ways.
And the, uh, the nine is gonna offer you guys tender leadership. And this way you can actually bring in the skills that you have. But it's not plowing over people. It's plowing alongside people. It's plowing for people.
And so you guys are gonna be able to be more kind and empathetic, compassionate, tender, understanding, gracious, um, and your decisions will land on people, uh, with more thoughtfulness and kindness and maybe even easygoing, uh, versus just saying it like it is and being too blunt and too strong. So I'd love to hear from you guys, how do you see the nine part of your heart showing up in really assisting you in some really neat ways? Wilson, you wanna
start?
Yeah. Um, I guess. Probably, um, when I started doing my reading and research and reflection for my growth in terms of Enneagram stuff, I watched Richard Raws DVD on the Enneagram
Mm-hmm.
him saying that we have, uh, a dominant wing, kind of like a dominant hand and that we can use both wings and just like our
Yep.
we always have one dominant, um, more natural hint. that was the moment when I realized I had both wings and it was kind of like the moments
Hmm.
I learned how to score with my do non-dominant hand in basketball. It just
Right.
up so many possibilities and opportunities of
Yep.
the basketball and my do non-dominant hand was always there. it just opened up a whole new way of playing basketball. Um,
Mm-hmm.
work. It was a natural I had to put the hours in. And also the more I practiced my non-dominant hand, um, I became more comfortable using my non-dominant hand in games. And this was, um, the similar experience of having access of my less dominant line wing. It was always there. Um, but accessing it and using it, it just opened up a whole new way of being in the world. Um, and it wasn't natural.
It was hard work, it was uncomfortable and a lot of practice and it took a lot of nurturing, a lot of hours. Um, but when I started using my nine wing, grew into more of a rounded, a well-rounded person. Um, my mates say, you know, more balanced than more nuanced person, instead of being a firecracker exploding everywhere, I was like a display. And if you ask me fireworks displays, Firecrackers, um, that are purposely arranged.
Um, so this is the awareness of like the wings, um, just oh, of, um, the nine wing. Just teaching me how to step back and read the room. Um, you know, how to be aware of my environment context instead of just simply frame my weight into the room. learning how to lead in a, um, develop groups and teams to climb the hill instead of storming the hill myself. And also when holiday, uh, we talked about holidays instead of like packing the days full with activities.
Um, just simply learning how to enjoy the view and the people with wine and cheese and just taking in the moment. Um, but being aware of my wings and developing my non-dominant wing, um, you know, can be summed up in that, um, African proverb, you know, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want
mm.
go together. Um, and yeah, and I guess at its at its best, it's actually being a team player. Um, Yeah, learning how to read the dynamic and the culture of the team and building the culture of the team. And it's just, um, know, learning to reflect together as a team now wins and losses, but also doing the little things like dishes, organizing food, checking up on others, turning up early, uh, celebrating a birthday. Um, you know, things that sometimes the upfront leader can't always do.
Um, and it's always having the finger, um, on the pulse of the team culture and mission. Um, so yeah, I guess that's what it looks like at its best.
Yeah. That's great. Oh, I love that. I love that analogy. That's
so helpful. You mentioned the difficulty in just training this new part of your heart, giving notice to it and, uh, living from it. Um, what was, what do you think were the tensions for you? Like what was your relationship to this nine part of your heart? Did you like this part of your heart? Were you frustrated with it at times? Impatient.
Um, I guess it just opened me up to be more of a relaxed person, um, a bit more of a still person. So I talked about how my gut was always stirring, but accessing my nine wing, it's enabled me to settle the gut without taking action. Um,
Hmm. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. Now, uh, what about your spouse? Uh, how do they respond to this, uh, nine part of your heart?
Yeah. So my wife, she's a four and she believes that beauty is a human need. Um, It's actually taught me how to, uh, um, like my nine ring especially has actually taught me how to appreciate beauty. we're talking about art, we're talking about nature, uh, we're talking about, um, yeah, just people like, and seeing the beauty in people without having to activate, you know, just to,
Yeah.
and, and enjoy actually, um,
Yeah.
with movies I skip to the end. I'm like, ah, where already, you know, what's gonna happen? but yeah, with my nine wing, I can sit through a movie
Yeah.
Yeah.
know that the Avenger gonna win. Like, that's why it's called the Avengers.
Yeah. So true. That's awesome. I mean, when I think of you and what you offer me, it is being still mm-hmm. And reflecting, uh, Beth loves working from outside. Like she's out on our patio. I'm surprised you weren't out there today at, it
was 32 degrees and I was, I was not held back in the back. I was considering going out. Yes, yes, yes. But I didn't. Yep. And I did sit next to the
window. She's got, we've got space heaters out there. Yeah. Electric blankets. I mean, she's really committed to, I'm very being outside. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's super fun. Well, Stacy, how about you tell us about the nine part of your heart.
Yeah, when I was first learning about the Enneagram two, I was like, how can this be a challenger and a, and a conflict avoider? Like, what, what does that even look like? And so it's really unpacking it over the past few years has been okay trying to figure out when I will, when I do love conflict and will engage in a heartbeat versus I don't like this at all. And so I've, I've kind of, I don't like conflict if it's not about protecting mostly other people.
Um, if, if someone is coming after or being unfair with someone I love, or one of my people, then they've had better, you know, go into their house and lock the doors cuz I'm coming to have words. But if it's, if it's like dealing with, you know, firing someone or, you know, potential conflict of hurting someone, oh, I'll do anything to avoid those things.
I do not like that at all, and I can feel it in my body and my, you know, my heart starts to beat because it's not gonna be good, you know, it's gonna bring conflict or harm to someone. Um, and so that's where the two of them have kind of come together. I can, I, I have gotten to the point where I can retreat and rest. It's, it doesn't come naturally, but my Volkswagen van does not hurt. I, I, we have a, I call it my bug out vehicle, cuz I will just hop in in that and go camping or biking.
I have a hard time sitting still when I'm there, but at least I'm in nature and, and trying to intentionally slow things down. Um, I do think I can see there's just so much gray area. I do not. I am not a black and white person. And the older I get, the more gray it becomes. Um, and I think
And what about.
oh, go ahead.
I was gonna say, what about for you guys, the ability to see other people's viewpoints when you tap into the nine wing, what is that like for you guys?
Do you want me to speak on that
Yeah, sure. Yeah.
can, I, I can easily do that. And I think it, I think it comes from being a middle child of three girls. Um, that piece. Both my sisters are sometimes bringing things to me about the family or other things, and it's very easy for me to see all perspectives and, um, yeah, I can see I, I sometimes play that devil's advocate when we're having a political conversation or something and can kind of see that perspective, you know, what about this? Um, so I find that that comes pretty easily to.
Yeah. Yeah. Wilson, has that been like when you were practicing, you know, you're your less dominant hand, so to speak, to start seeing other people's viewpoints, and what was that like and how has that benefited?
Yeah, I guess, um, definitely my nine wing. Taught me how to read the room and who's in the room, um, understanding the context and why people gathered. And, um, I've found is that asking good questions, um, you usually get good answers. So it's just learning how to ask good questions, to understand people's viewpoint and in that way as well, like I think with the nine wing, you start to understand empowered powered dynamics within the room,
Mm-hmm.
learn the connections of why people have gathered in this room. Um, I guess that's how, I guess the nuance of the viewpoints. And I agree, like I think in working on my nine wing, um, you start to see things a lot more gray and a lot
Mm-hmm.
It's not as simple as black and white and actually there's actual, actual layers of complexities, um, to every issue or to every,
Right.
win as.
¶ 8w9 in Unhealth
Yeah, well, uh, then, although there's great attributes that we can all learn from a type. Uh, nine also brings some unhealthy aspects to, uh, our hearts and our relationships. And, but remember, it still has good intent and it's seeking to protect you. Um, now a nine wing is, can be withdrawn and accommodates the people or people please. And in order to avoid conflict retention, while it's good for you to sometimes to get away from others, slow down and rest.
An unhealthy nine wing can actually move you to isolation, to the point of feeling where you may feel paranoid or afraid that people are out to get you. A nine Wing can also, uh, influence an eight by making them feel less aware of their feelings because they're focused on accomplishing what they desired. Perhaps, uh, the Nine Wing will help you to ignore suppress feelings of anger and irritation so that you can keep your relationships less turbulent and possibly more peaceful.
So instead of a assertively telling others what you want, perhaps a nine wing may quietly dig in your heels and become stubborn until the other person gives into your way of doing things. It's important to acknowledge that, uh, these unhealthy habits and to strive for balance by embracing, uh, your peaceful, softer side, you can improve how you relate to others and see how the world with its many shades, like you mentioned before, that there's a lot more
gray. Well, just to kind of insert real quick before you ask them about themselves, just to let people know, even though the nines are people pleasing and accommodating, we are the most stubborn on the Enneagram. Yes. I don't know if you knew that. Did you know that? Um, have you experienced that? You know what, I
tread lightly. I'm gonna, I'm gonna plead the fish. The, I think it's the fifth. Is it the ninth or whatever I need to plea right now that I don't want. What is it I'll take any privilege that I have to not
engage in? Well, I'll say yes. S nines can be very separate,
but it, it is an interesting energy in the sense that it's not aggressive against, it's just immovable and, uh, you, uh, you kind of run into it like, oh. There. It is there. Okay. I guess we're done.
Yep. So, uh, Stacy, we'll go with you first. What is it like, you know, when some of these unhealthy attributes of the nine show up?
Yeah, that, that last comment really resonated with me again, too. I thought the stubbornness was the eight part, but now you've got. One of the things I had to talk about was kind of the passive aggressiveness of a nine. I've got a lot, a lot of nines in my life. And um, so eights with a nine with a strong nine wing can be aggressive and passive aggressive. So it's just depends on who we're talking to and depends on the day, but my stubbornness. Okay, thank you. Beth comes from my nine wing.
I will, I will just rest in that. Yeah. And then Jeff, your words. Okay, we're done here. Like, I, like I hear that quite often as
Mm-hmm.
is we'll be talking about something and it's like, you know what, I, I'm done. I'm not, I'm not gonna get anywhere here. So the stubbornness is for sure one of the main things that shows up negatively from my nine wing. Um, I think I can also digress to the easiest path forward. Um, instead of taking the one that makes the most sense or the one that is the good path, I can cut those nine corners
Mm-hmm.
but if I just drive to the mailbox, I don't have to walk, or, um, you know, just, just making things a little bit easier on myself sometimes, or more convenient, even though it doesn't make sense, is
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
that it shows up for me.
It is interesting, we, we've noticed this with the other types as well. Uh, so the seven wing gets you up and going, and the nine wing can slow you down. Mm-hmm. Settle you. Yeah. And, but you need both because there are times to speed up. And engage in their times to slow down as well. And I
like to talk about eights when I'm coaching, how it's kinda like a dimmer switch on a light, uh, system. Mm-hmm. Is eights by themselves want to be at a hundred percent right all the time. That's the intensity and like the excitement of life. And then you add the seven on there. I mean, it's like, I mean, it's a whole nother level. And so what I'm always trying to do is say, Hey, we don't need you to be like us nine s at 30% because we need to like put our dier switch up a little bit. Um,
but Oh, stop bragging. You're not at 30%.
Am I giving myself too much credit? Joking.
I'm totally joking. Like you Yeah. Beth has this, uh, this energy we were talking about this weekend because even whenever we have a weekend break and we're not working Yeah. Beth is still working and thinking about stuff. I am. And you're much, I mean, you, you don't call yourself a semi-truck. You call it, you identify more like a fiat. Mm-hmm. Um, but the reality is you're more like a semi. Um, once you get going, you're ready for the long haul. Yeah. And it's really hard to stop you.
That's true. That's true. So s nine s usually need to like do the dimmer switch up a little bit. Yes. Um, but with the eights, you know, what we're trying to show is the healthy part of the nine. You gotta kind of watch how it's happening, but you wanna bring that dial switch back a little bit and that usually scares the aids. Cause it's like, what do you mean? Like, that's like the best part of me? And we're like, okay, I'm not saying like I'm, I'm just talking go to 80%.
You know, like we're not talking a hundred, just 80%, 80% is way past more people than you would realize. But when you think about a, a light bulb, it can only last for so long. And eights don't realize that their bodies can only go for so long and literally they will go until their body gets sick and shuts down. Because they think they're invincible and they, they can do it. But if they recognize, oh, I am human.
I need to dial this back and I need to have more self-care and margin and slow it down, that's where they, the nine wing can really assist you now at times. Well, the Nine
Wing helps. This is surprising, and if this is true, the Nine Wing helps eights with boundaries.
For themselves. Yeah,
for themselves and for others that they're not relationally because the seven's gone like it's
Right. That's true. Yeah. So it's the nine that's gonna observe the room, it's gonna know the energy, it's gonna know how, maybe they're being too strong, too big, too blunt, too anything. They're, they'll read people. Mm-hmm. Cause the nines, we're always reading people. It's kind of painful if I'm honest, but we're reading people and we're like, oh, I can pick up these cues and that can really help the the eight.
But of course you don't want your nine wing to take your dimmer switch all the way to zero and totally check out and numb out and forget the world. Um, so with that being said, Wilson, soon, what, how are some ways that the nine shows up in unhealthy ways for you?
Yeah, I guess at my worst, um, with my non-dominant nine wing, um, as a Chinese man and as a person of color and a minority within the white, um, colonial dominated society,
Mm-hmm.
check out of conversations, um, especially ones that are racist, sexist, and ones
Mm.
systems that press and dehumanize people or
Mm-hmm.
um, the resources of the earth. And it's because I'm coming to the, to a conclusion that bad theology kills. And, um, I usually check out of those conversations when, um, there's no deep relationship. So the di switch goes down, um, the conversation's no longer a dialogue, so it goes down again. Um, the person is not willing to learn and it's getting ugly goes down again, and you cannot negotiate where all sides are winning. Um, so it just goes off.
Um, then I don't really believe it's worth my time, energy, or attention. as I'm getting older, um, like you said, I've realized that my energy, time and attention is limited and it's better used than other places with other people. And, um, yeah, like I think the switching off, um, and part of the Nine Wing, it shows me that I'm so human, that I've got human limits, um, which innate with a seven wing doesn't believe.
Right.
going back to those conversations, um, I truly believe that the Holy Spirit, um, can speak to those people in their lives and that the church is actually big enough and has enough people to disciple and journey alongside those people, um, with that sort of worldview philosophy and theology. And it's not all up to me. I think as an eight, sometimes we believe it's only we that can save the world. Um,
Mm-hmm.
we have a whole church that backs us. So yeah, once I've sussed out the conversation, um, and the type of conversation, and if it's going nowhere or if it's getting ugly, I'll check out and I won't engage until the next topic of conversation or if it. and gets more ugly or worse, I'll just simply get up and say, Hey, it's time for me to go. And I'm not sure if it's healthy or unhealthy, but it feels unhealthy.
Um, because my natural eight wing goes, alright, I'm ready to throw off the gloves, let's go. Um, but my nine wings reminds me that, um, I can hear God whisper say, Wilson, there's a time and place for everything. And it's not now. And maybe it's my non-dominant nine wing that actually enables me to be
Yeah.
and wise.
That's awesome. Yeah. Hey, I'm just curious. Every once in a while I hear an instrument in the background is,
I'm at my school and I didn't know they have band practice down the hall, so I'm trying to
it's beautiful. It's super fun.
on mute. On mute.
whole, no, it's fine. This is fine. Our whole team is, um, remote. Remote, and so we have cats, dogs, plants, babies, babies. We've got everybody who's, uh, comes in on
pause. This is Stacy. This is a nine world. It's all welcome. So I, I
loved it
me.
but I thought how appropriate for a, I, I didn't know. I thought it might be you, but I was like, oh, that's fun. Like, uh, either it's one of your kids or, you know, if you're at the school and there's someone practicing, like, no, that's perfect. That's fun. Yeah. Love it. Yeah, no, it's, it's not a problem or distractions. It's perfectly
fine. Well, for all of us, you know, it's really good to be able to observe these different parts of us, especially, well, not, not just, especially when we're not doing well. Because when we're doing really well, sometimes we won't even observe when we're doing well. And how it affects us in positive ways so that we will do that again. Kinda like you were saying, Wilson, like practice, you know, with the less dominant hands so that you can get better at it and use it in really healthy ways.
Um, but we definitely wanna know when these parts also show up in unhealthy ways so that we can learn how to be aware of it right when it's happening so we can, uh, surrender and depend on the Holy Spirit to work in and through us to bring out the healthier qualities. But that can be really hard for a type eight, uh, because to do that work is to slow down and to observe yourself, right?
To be mindful enough of when these things are showing up in less healthy ways, and especially when the seven and eight are going, they're off, right. They're off to the next thing. Um, now the nine might be able to help you to carve out some time and to schedule, um, but it's gonna be really important for the eight to recognize. They need time for their body to rest and to recuperate and to think, and to process.
So I just really recommend, you know, eights that are out there listening to take the time to, to sit, to be, to be still with your thoughts, to write them down, to observe what's going on, and notice when these unhealthy attributes show up and to be alert and aware to them, but also jot down some of these healthy things like what Wilson and Stacy, what you were saying, and go, oh yeah, I noticed that. And bring those back up into your life on a more regular basis.
So when we're activated, it also helps us to connect our thoughts and feelings with a story from childhood. And in these stories you're gonna find that, uh, wings played a role and ultimately, uh, our misaligned wings are trying to protect us from experiencing, uh, more harm. So always ask the question, what about the circumstance reminds me of the pain or the experiences of my past? Well, we're so grateful for Stacy and Wilson who have joined us today.
Uh, so thank you both for coming and just sharing about your life. It means so much to us, to our audience, and specifically to our types out eights out there and the people who love the eights that are in their life. And so, uh, Stacy, can you tell us, uh, where people might be able to find out more about you and, uh, your coaching services?
Yeah, I have, uh, you can find me on the Enneagram Coach Coaches Network, so through your, through your website, and then my own website is www.freshtracksenneagram.com and my Instagram is at Fresh Tracks Enneagram.
Great. Awesome. That's fantastic. And Wilson, what about you?
I used to have Instagram and a website. However, uh, since I've been training for AutoNation, I've, um, stopped that. But if you wanna message me, um, I'm pretty reachable on Facebook, so just search or Chan and yeah. Um, if you got a question or want to connect, I'm, I'm up for it. And, um, yeah, keen, oh, if it's, um, I guess international. gonna say, let's grab a coffee, but I'll grab a coffee on my end. You grab a coffee on your end.
We do have, we do have lots of people in New Zealand that listen in and we have lots of, uh, or several New Zealand, uh, coaches, um, as well. So that might even be really
fun to, yeah. For our remote team, we have coffee and connection once a month. Mm-hmm. Where, bring your favorite morning drink and we're just gonna sit around and tell stories. This morning it was highs and lows of the month of January. That's true. Yeah. Just connecting with one another. So. Well, remember, if you're interested in learning more about the Enneagram, you can visit
¶ Learn more on our website
us at yourenneagramcoach.com. And if you're ready to take a step further with personalized Enneagram coaching, uh, like with Stacy and Wilson, then you can head
¶ Find a Coach!
over to myenneagramcoach.com where you can find, uh, incredible certified coaches around the
globe. And if you're like me and Stacy and Wilson and you've experienced incredible transformation using the enneagram and you wanna pay it forward, then our certification program become an enneagram coach is going to be right for you. And to learn more, all you gotta do is go to yourenneagramcoach.com/bec,
¶ Become a Coach!
and our team will love to walk you, uh, each step of the way through that process. Now, always remember that the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder. It is the gospel that transforms us. Thanks for tuning in, and the next time we'll talk about type nine s and their wings.