Understanding and Overcoming Gaslighting in Toxic Relationships with Dr. Frieda

That is a core part in recovering from abuse and moving on from gaslighting . However , I know a lot of us can't leave , and so I wanted to name that now and say that if you are a parent , if you are somebody who just like you're not ready to just walk out the door right now , there's nothing wrong with you . There's absolutely nothing wrong with you .

It is okay . I've stayed in relationships that I couldn't leave . Many of my clients have stayed in relationships that I couldn't leave .

We can talk about how you can leave and how you can prepare yourself to leave , and even if you need to stay for your kids or for whatever other reason that might be there sometimes it's financial , sometimes there's a lot of other things going on we can talk about ways in which to keep you safe .

And now I know I'm really kind of going off course from this podcast , and it's not to discredit anything she said , because she was absolutely wonderful . I don't want you to listen to this and feel like here we go again , another resource that says I need to leave the relationship in order to survive .

I get , if you're not there , I understand , I'm with you , I hear you , I'm validating you , I'm telling you I was there too , and I'm telling you that there are other ways to approach it as well . The one thing that will help you in being away for a bit forever is leaving Right , and we all do know that .

I'll step off my soapbox now and say Dr Greta is a psychologist , she is a psychoanalytic therapist , she's based in New Jersey , she is an author , she is very knowledgeable and she is one of the trailblazers of this industry . She talks about where gaslighting originated .

She's been doing this work for so long , so much time , like before gaslighting was even recognized , before the term was even used in the way that it's used today , and I really hope that it helps .

I really hope this episode helps you understand a little bit more of your reality , what you are going through , and if you need support I say this all the time you can always feel free to reach out to me . My email is Jessica at JessicaNightCoachingcom . It does take me a bit longer to respond to emails .

Thoughtfully , you can book a validation session with me , which is a one-off , one-on-one . But I am here , I am a resource and I'd be happy to support you along your journey . I hope this podcast really helps . Hi , dr Greta , thank you so much for joining me today .

I find , hopefully , I'm an expert in the field of relationship and I've continued to make myself known in these areas .

I don't know , I want to say like 10 years or so , absolutely ?

But here I am talking to you , and what we're talking about is already something that's changed . We've changed it the way we look at relationships . We've changed it , what's important to us and gender ID and the way men and women relate to each other .

So all this is something that was not available at that time , and that's why gaslighting is something that's so important for everyone to know what to look out for .

A lot of people are involved in situations in the beginning that they're not even aware of what to look for , and then they get comfortable and they look away and their lives just continue in that direction .

And I actually had a client this morning who said I'm just starting to realize and understand that I've actually been gaslit and I've been working with her for a while and I thought it was really interesting the way that she framed that of like I'm just starting to realize that this is actually real and I think it just it takes for me it always takes education ,

which is why I'm so glad we're doing this podcast , but also it takes like really I think , understanding and like accepting like that , not that you did something wrong , but that you're in a toxic pattern and there's value in learning about it and getting out of it .

So now it's in the media , Now it's being pushed in a direction for people to know that you have to be able to go ahead , as you said , and see it for what it is first in order to know how to change it . But what's interesting also that this started in a play in 1939 the word gaslit because this one woman had a husband who wanted to steal her jewelry .

What a great husband he was . And he took this gaslit lantern up to the attic with him to steal her jewelry . And after that that word became popular and then it lay dormant for a while and now it's coming up again .

Are people who are fake and what to look for ? Some of these people are the best salespeople as well . So we're beginning to identify more as we're changing our roles and then are becoming more nurturing . Women are becoming more financially responsible .

All that is changing , but within that change , we have to know what does stay the same , and respect for others needs to stay the same .

You have to visualize yourself as someone who's confident , because people who are the most targeted are the ones that are least confident , so they're easy targets . So it's not a coincidence that this happens to them time and time again .

They are able to put on a persona that is extremely charming and fake and false , but we don't realize that in the beginning that it's not actually them , but it's like a mask that they're wearing .

This person is going to make sure that no one else does anything to me that's going to be harmful in any way , so they don't even see that happening to them . They're complimented by it . But these people , to answer your question , are narcissists . Yeah , they're very self-centered and it's all about their ego , and their ego is usually very fragile .

So they have to make sure that they're constantly being fed this emotional positivity and it's tiring . It's tiring because they're going to call you on it . Did you say this to me , or what happened just now ? No , I didn't mean that . So you're constantly working on trying to show that other person that you're solid . Really , that other person has an agenda .

It's not that this is a coincidence and people think , oh well , I'll show them , they'll understand , I'll make sure that they see it my way . They don't want to see it your way . They want to be able to get back at a lot of the trauma they had when they were young and they were children . What was given to them Anger management , emotional , physical abuse .

They're hurting and when they're damaged this way , the only way they can feel better is to see somebody else feeling badly about themselves . I know it's very sad to have to do that to another person so you can feel better . But , as I said , these people are not healthy and this is the only way they can get that quick gratification that high .

But then it comes back again . Then they have that low sense of self , low self-esteem . They don't know what to do with it , they don't know how to fix it . So they have someone else as their whipping boy , as somebody else who they're emotionally damaging as well .

So it's very hard to even discuss it , because so many people are involved with this as we're speaking about it , and so many people have friends that say to them what happened to you ? You're changing Relatives . How come you never call ? Because that person wants you exclusive to themselves . They don't want you to change in any way .

They want to keep you as their puppet , so to speak . And also people say you don't look that , you're the same . You don't look so happy . You may not even realize that you're feeling these emotions , but they show it's something wrong . Are you crying about something ?

Because you're constantly in the stress management phase of your life that , no matter where you are , you've done something wrong , that you need something , you need to prove something to that person thinking ah , once I explain this to him or her , they'll understand . But it never goes to that place .

No , the momentary situation when it's good . Most of the time it's really not good . So when we're talking about coming from abuse situation , the person you're with had nothing to do with it really . But you pick someone that is familiar in some way .

They pick someone that reminds them either a parent or sibling or a relative that made them feel horrible and they're going to get back at you . They really are A person who doesn't feel that they have to put up with it , because if you're in a good place , then something negative comes in , you push it away .

But if you're not in a good place , you don't even know when something negative is coming in and you don't push it away because you doubt yourself . Maybe I did this wrong , maybe there's something I upset that person about , and that's what they pick .

They pick vulnerable people who have a low sense of self so they can create this kind of doubt in their lives and , as I said , they're married . Just I like this , forever , forever .

What are some signs that people can look for If they're listening to this and they're like I feel like this is coming up in my relationship ? Well , the first thing is that they blame you .

And when that doubt comes in , then you try to justify it by making up for it even and getting along till it happens again . So you constantly put into this place of not trusting your own judgment .

When you have all this outside feedback or influence , other people will call it out so they try and limit your social circle .

Do they talk about the future ever ? Do they even accept the fact that you'll be together in the immediate or the future of your relationship ? Usually not . If they say they couldn't find the phone or the phone was dead or they didn't plug it in .

Watch out , those are signs again that you're being put in a certain situation that's really not being included into that person's life . You're not inclusive in that person's friendships . You don't really know about their background . What is their background actually ? What are their past relationships like ? Have you been able to talk to anybody that knows them ?

What they went through ? Where do they live ? What about money ? What kind of financial status are they in ? What kind of lifestyle are they responsible ? Money is one of the biggest factors in a relationship . That could be the deal breaker when people argue about money how to spend money differently each of them so as that person being faithful .

Fidelity is another one that happens . Is that person cheating and not telling on you ? Does that person have secrets ? I mean across the board ?

The problem here is that people continue to stay in these kind of relationships , hoping that that other person will finally see that they're wrong , will finally say they're sorry , will finally be appropriate and finally be a good partner . It doesn't happen . Even with therapy , it doesn't happen .

I am under the belief system that therapy doesn't help unless somebody is extremely committed to working on the way that they think from now for the rest of their life and that every time that they have a thought that blames you or that blame someone else for whatever is going on inside of them , that they need a space where they're able to work on that , that

will take so much time that I typically shorten it and say therapy doesn't work , which is it seems like Therapy doesn't work . Can you explain in your viewpoint why therapy just doesn't work ? If you ?

I had a couple recently where I would say to the man they came in individually , do you want this to work ? His answer to me was I don't know . Well , if you don't know , who knows ? If you don't know , it's not going to work . She originally came in to say to me and she was really off the top the way she spoke I'd hire a gunman to get rid of him .

He'd hear this . I said are you kidding me ? I was shocked . Meanwhile , the minute he turned away , he wanted him back . It's a game couple's play as well of who is the one who is going to reject the other person . A lot of people they don't leave till they're rejected , no matter how happy they are .

It's really a mixed blessing , because it does defeat your ego . It makes you feel worse , but you may end up in a better place , often women walking away from a bad relationship . They end up better because they get more self-absorbed with their own needs .

Men often end up , believe it or not , are the first ones to end up in a new relationship because that's the part of them that was missing . It's not something that is bad . It could teach you a lesson , but you shouldn't take so long to learn that lesson that your life can go by .

As you said , when people come in , individuals come in and they're complaining about a relationship . If two people want to work on it , as you said , that's important . If one person's complaining and evolving and working on themselves , that other person needs to come in too . Usually the narcissist will not come in because why they're controlling everything .

They don't want a therapist to tell them what to do . They don't want to change . They're invested . The person who's victimized comes in , not the person who needs the help . Usually it's very difficult . You need to have two people on the same page that want to work on it .

Now there are couples that come in together and want to work on it , but there's so much into the negativity of attacking each other all the time . No matter , they're looking for things and they find things . They talk to other people about how horrible each of them is . They're ready in this cycle and that's hard too . But again it's the same thing .

Couple cycles of narcissism , of negativity , becomes familiar after a while and you just stay with it because you don't even know that there's anything better . You think this is the way it's supposed to be , especially if you have parents who argue all the time . Somebody says to me my mother used to scream all the time , why did I do the same thing ?

We pick up social cues from our parents and it becomes familiar , even if we don't want it to be that way , all the unresolved issues you've had at home .

If you pick a partner that reminds you usually of the opposite sex parent and you expect that partner to fix everything , you could have a lot of trouble because that partner is not going to want to fix it . That partner came in to have a game plan , to grow together , to have a future together , not to be your therapist .

A lot of people pick couples so they can have therapy for themselves . So narcissists pick people that delve into them . It's all about the narcissist . What can they do for them ? How can they get away with what they want ? How can they control them ?

We're talking about control in every area , from where to go to a restaurant , to who to visit , to how to spend money . We're talking about vacations . We're talking about the quality of your life . In the minute you wake up in the morning , what are you doing ? Where are you going ? Who you're talking to ? What did they say ?

You have that kind of constraint against you in the beginning . As I said , it's a compliment . After a while , you lose the essence of who you are , and that's when it becomes dangerous .

Like it's like on the tip of my tongue , but it almost feels like when somebody is like blaming you for all of the issues in the relationship , with like half accountability for their well , where they are , but the fixation is usually all on you and all on what you're doing wrong . Is that gaslight ? Do you consider that gaslighting too ?

Yes , because it's setting it up .

That was an insult . No , this is a continuation of an attitude , attitude that's being addressed . So everything within that attitude that's spoken about has the same kind of content and the same kind of outcome , which is I know more than you . I know what to do . You have to listen to me . You don't have the answers .

I do After a while yeah , after a while if you're dependent on that person , because they go in and out of this , so you have some good times and you want to continue those good times , that's what you have to do to balance it off .

And that's why some people have trouble leaving , because as soon as that person sees that okay , maybe I pushed the button too far , they take it all back , they become wonderful . So they're maneuvering the situation .

So if you're married to someone who's gaslighting you , or if you have a partnership , even in a business relationship , the best thing to do is run as fast as you can . Yeah , that's the best thing to do Really . Find somebody that's more like yourself . It's not that this is the only person in town . They're gonna want to make you feel that way .

They're gonna try . They're very smart , they're very clever , they're gonna try to pull you in and they will pull you in . But remember , the other stuff is just around the corner . This is temporary . We hope it's permanent , but it's never permanent . We talked about a person that functions on a normal level . Yes , when something goes wrong , it's temporary .

You hope that they understand it . You hope that they finally figure it out and they're gonna work on it with you , and sometimes that kind of relationship is better than ever . But those are not the people who really are out to have some kind of Power and control over the other person .

But , yes , you can talk to your friends , talk to your relatives , talk to somebody that you're leaving , not not talk to Therapist that you want to stay . That's different . We're not trying to work it out .

You're ready on your way out and you have somebody to help you physically because it could be hard to Physically go and leave and let them have you stay there till you find your own place .

I'm not saying you should stay there permanently you have to find your own place but they can help you without being further abused by this person who's gaslighting you by helping you move the furniture and you move your belongings . You need somebody there with you , you know .

See it for what it is in your relationship , like have enough courage to put together those pieces so that you can leave , like what you just said . And I think that a lot of people will be like , well , I just can't get up and leave with my kids .

But if you can't do that , then creating space between you and this person is so essential , because then you can actually begin to think for yourself . You can't think it's so like yeah , in that relationship .

But we've been responsible for my own happiness , the similarities , and we show like yours and say you know what I can move forward . This is that my next step and my next step . And each time you tiptoe out of this relationship and , as I said , with help , it's hard to do on your own and then you have other people supporting you .

Instead of being in this dark place , of being Supported by someone who's not good for you , you break out and get back to your friends who support the healthy part of you , and then you'll be able to see yourself Appropriately , because you're in the dark . You question yourself Am I really making this up ? Did this really happen ?

Is it really so bad If somebody can throw you across the room and say I didn't do it ? It never happens , I'm not kidding and then you say what ? Did it happen or didn't it happen ? So that's the step ? That the answer to your question .

The step is to find people who see you as healthy and Treat you as healthy and relate to you that way so you can get back to yourself , so you can detox and go into withdrawal really from this addictive behavior that you're in .

I think a lot of people struggle with that and I talk about that a lot that when I was healing from my Trauma bond and I finally was in a space of no contact at all , like everything was blocked there was no way that this person have access to me unless they showed up at my house and my plan was that I was gonna call the police .

Like I had all of this put together . It took months there , but one of the things that I realized was that I got like actually sick at the end . I remember talking to a mental health professional that understood Emotional abuse and domestic violence across the board and they were like sometimes that happens . Sometimes your body does go through withdrawal .

Like you are releasing toxins and all of the stuff that you kept like closed in to be able to survive In this relationship is now , hey , it's like you getting sick is normal , right , you feeling every emotion is normal . Like you feeling so exhausted is normal . Like treat yourself as if you're going through withdrawal because you actually are .

Normal was the dysfunction Of you not being there was another person that was telling you who you're supposed to be yeah , and so it's almost as if you were crippled emotionally crippled for the amount of time .

So this renewal of getting back to a friend , of having friendships and going back to your family , for them to see you for who you are , that's going to be a release , and that person has tried to prevent you from that . So you shouldn't feel that good about yourself .

They don't want that and that's the way you're going to get away Escape and have somebody to support you . It's hard to do if somebody calls you all the time I , somebody tracks you down , if somebody threatens you . All that stuff can be very scary .

But when you have somebody there , it's more objective and they say I have your back and this is not who you are and you can't or she can't get away with it . It's going to help you to keep moving away , for yeah .

You know , I think I know in my story I personally felt like I Exhausted all of my options , like I was even telling people like this is what's happening and I need support , and I wasn't getting it , and so or they just or , honestly , maybe they just got exhausted with me or they didn't understand it , like there's so many things that could have happened .

You know , they watched me try and fail a whole bunch of times . But I'm curious , like , do you know of outside support groups , where places people can go if their friends are not able to provide the support that they need ?

But the more you fill yourself up with the good stuff , the more the negative stuff will keep being pushed away . That's really the best thing you can do for yourself , because if you're in a group , you keep repeating your dilemmas , yeah , and you often stay stuck with that , if you notice , and you just stay stuck with it over and over and over .

The only way you could change is if you could go into a mode of living your life according to who you are and where you're going and stay there and anything else that comes in your way that's negative . Just push away and keep moving there , because once you stay with that other stuff , that's what you become . It's the only answer . It's the only way .

So , groups and whatever I'm sorry , I really don't recommend it . I've done it . And I switch quickly to different kinds of groups where people are talking about Not about being in bad relationships , not about mourning other people , not about being emotionally unhealthy because Like , gathers , like , and then you all are together in this and you all are victimized .

A victim is never helped . A Victim can never help themselves because when you see yourself that way , you have a secondary game . People will understand , people will feel sorry for you . No , it's not good . You're treated differently and you see yourself differently and after a while you don't function because you're making excuses .

No excuses move in a direction of health , stay with health and every time Something unhealthy girl comes in , just push it away .

You do get to work through so much of your trauma , of your own personal trauma , and ask yourself how you got there , and there's a new relationship with yourself on the other side that wasn't there before and you get to start fresh .

I know that might feel so scary to so many people , but it's been an amazing thing , being on like the practitioner side , to be able to see and people watch them grow and change and evolve and create , create new lives .

They come from a pattern , a chain of different behaviors where they were either parented or had relationships that were dysfunctional to begin with and therefore , when we're talking about fixing and healing , if you go back to the healthy place for yourself , you can move on .

Those people often don't have healthy places to move on to , so really , instead of feeling upset or angry , the best thing you can really do is just sorry for them , because they're the ones that are Trapped . You're the one that had to know about these people . You're the one that had to see them and their behavior in the way they responded to you .

But it wasn't you , it wasn't you doing , it was them . So it doesn't mean that you have to see yourself in any way that they wanted to see you . Why give into that ? You know they say happiness is the best revenge .

Go ahead , don't give them so much Prestige , don't give them so much power by talking about it and thinking about it , because then it brings that into your life .

Bring into your life good stuff , diminish the bad stuff and so you can grow and you can move on and only feel sorry for those people , because hatred and anger you know , you put that inside yourself and it's not healthy . Yeah .

Please correct me if I'm wrong , but do you take clients from around the world or do you ? Is it inclusive to the state that you're in ?

It's the same . Yeah , same stuff , yeah . So , anyway , to answer your question , I have that website . People want to contact me . It's Dr D O C T O R , f , r , I , e , d , a , h , g Melcom , and I feel that when you hold on to anything , you're perpetuating the problems . Yeah , when you hold on to new stuff , you're growing in a different direction .

It's that simple , that's beautiful .

Yeah , thank you so much . Awesome , thank you .