Healing After an Abusive Relationship with Emmy Marie

 Welcome to the Relationship Recovery Podcast, hosted by Jessica Knight. A certified life coach who specializes in narcissistic and emotional abuse. This podcast is intended to help you identify manipulative and abusive behavior, set boundaries with yourself and others, and heal the relationship with yourself so you can learn to love in a healthy way.

On today's podcast, I have Emmy Marie. Emmy is a trauma survivor, certified trauma informed coach. A norm practitioner, an educator with the mission to help others reclaim their power, reject shame, and walk boldly towards a life of balance, freedom, and joy. I found Emmy through her Instagram, she had posted or, and she still posts frequently a lot of content for survivors of abuse.

I remember finding a lot of her content and feeling like somebody was talking to the part of me that. Didn't see anymore that I wanted to see, that I wanted to get in touch with, and I've consistently followed her for a long time as I've learned to be in a healthy relationship. I've absolutely loved talking with Emmy, and I think that you're gonna receive a lot of nuggets from this podcast.

And I hope that through listening to it, you'll be able to have an idea of what getting healthy looks like.

Hi. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. Do you mind introducing you and the work that you do? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, so I'm Emmy Marie for folks who don't know me, and I run the Instagram account blooming with Emmy, and my work is as a certified trauma informed coach as well as a NAM practitioner. So I mostly work with folks who have.

Been through some form of trauma in the past, whether it's a toxic or an abusive relationship or a family or, um, yeah, there's a whole wide variety of things, but I help folks look at their present life and determine maybe what obstacles are in the way from them meeting their goals, whether it comes to, you know, relationship goals, career goals, just overall feelings of wellness goals.

So as a coach, I focus primarily on the here and now and the future. A little different than therapy, although there's a lot of overlap, and I also create a lot of content and free resources and courses and all stuff like that to try to reach as many people as possible. And. Overall, just help people heal in whatever way I can.

Yeah. I know from the work that I do that nobody gets into this work without having an experience that has led them, you know, to unpack this, you know? Yeah. Like this giant onion. So, exactly. Can you tell us a little bit about your story and what led you, you know, I read a little bit on your bio, so I know that you did have an abusive relationship.

So yeah, take us through what brought you. Yes, absolutely. So when I was a teenager in high school, I got into a relationship that from the beginning was very like all consuming and really like fast, and I was super excited for that, like emotional intensity and connection. But over time it became, it started a shift from this like tremendous amount of love bombing to.

Sort of subtle forms of emotional verbal abuse that happened really slowly over time and gradually got worse and worse over the course of three years. So yeah, lots of, like I said, emotional, verbal, sexual, some physical abuse. That all was really contrasted by lots of promises of love. And you know, you're the only one that'll ever understand me.

So I was really just completely hooked on this person and this relationship, and from my perspective, felt like there was absolutely no escaping first, because I thought we were meant to be together and we were so in love. And later, because I was being threatened that, you know, if I tried to leave. You know, something bad was going to happen to me.

So yeah, I had that experience of being in a really abusive relationship as a teenager, which I think is a really interesting time between sort of like childhood developmental trauma and like adult domestic violence. And your first experience. Like love, like air quote. Right, exactly. You know, those, I mean, I still think about my high school ex often because of how traumatic a lot of things were, even though it wasn't, I wouldn't say it was abuse, but I'd definitely say toxic and it's like, sure.

I can't imagine like, you know, you're that young and like that's what your brain is imprinting. What love. Totally. Yeah. And you're like, brain is still developing, your body's still developing and Yeah, I'm just learning so much about, like you said, the definition of love and what that's supposed to feel like.

And yeah, so that really did a number on me as you could expect. And so after that happened, I pretty much just tried to move on and kind of ignore. What I had just been through, I really internalized the message of, just get over it. Just move on. Just forget about it. And at the time that felt really possible to me, I was in sort of this period of like complete joy and like bliss because I liberated myself from such.

Intense entrapment that I was just like flying high. And so I went to college and just thought, oh, this will last forever. Like I'll always just be just cruising through life now and everything's fine. Yeah. Like, yeah, exactly. And I was, at first I sort of, you know, started dipping into like depression and anxiety and that was all very familiar to me because during that relationship I was very mentally ill because of what I was going through.

So I didn't really connect it to the trauma, and then I ended up being in another relationship that was pretty toxic, very emotionally unavailable, just like a poor, a matchup in general. And that went on for two years. And there was a lot of me ignoring red flags, pretending I was okay when I wasn't just masking and trying to hide what I was going.

and sort of through that, and shortly after that one ended, I started really getting hit with symptoms of complex P T S D, where I would have a lot of paranoia and fear and horrible nightmares. Mm-hmm.  and just, it was getting dif more and more difficult to function. So that was very frustrating because I thought, you know, this was, Three years ago I was in that relationship.

I don't understand why it's hitting now, what's going on. Um, and that really took me down the path of going to therapy and starting to like really intensely research P T S D and. Healing and yeah, so that was, you know, around 2016. Right now it's 2022, so I've been kind of doing the healing work myself for six or seven years now, and that was really intensive for a while.

It was really something that it was hard for me to focus on. Anything else other than healing and like trying to, yeah, get rid of some of the shame I felt over being a survivor and try to feel safe in my body again. . And about three years ago, I started to notice that I was getting to a point where it's not like the healing was over, and I still don't say it is, but I was able to be more regulated generally, and kind of hold space for other people.

And then in 2020, I decided to become certified and start this work as a trauma informed coach. It was kind of like my pandemic baby. But yeah, it's been incredibly fulfilling to help other people who have been in similar positions that I've been in and approach it through a really like human first non-pathological approach to, you know, trauma recovery and just like wellness.

So yeah, that's kinda what brought me here. Yeah, I think that's one of the things that drew me to, I found you on Instagram. That's how this all started, was around like, Not blaming yourself for the abuse. You know, there's a lot of content about that you don't like. Don't blame yourself because, and I think it's a message I needed to hear a hundred times to really like let it begin to seep in.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like, oh, my content's like repetitive. And it's like, yeah, but we all need to hear these things repeated over and over because there's so many other messages that are saying, Take responsibility for what you've done or like, I don't know, just stuff that doesn't apply or like you had, you had a role too, right?

You know? Yeah. Or like there takes two, it takes two people and it's like, yeah, none of that's helpful, . Right, right. And it's like, I understand that not every message can be made for all of us, but I'm just here to provide messages that are specifically for survivors. So yeah. When you were talking about your, the relationship that you had, I guess like that relationship of like, I don't know, like before 2016.

It reminded me of my first relationship after my marriage ended, which was definitely, you know, had a lot of threads of abuse in it and totally. It was two years after I thought I did all this healing and I was great. I was like, oh good. Like I'm entering relationship now and I entered directly into that anxious avoidant dance with somebody.

Mm-hmm. . And you didn't say those words, but that's what it sounded like. Totally. You said, you know, he was like barely there sometimes there breadcrumbs. Yes. And you were giving more. And so why do you think. If we don't do the work, we end up falling into that kind of relationship. That's such a good question.

Yeah. So I think when it comes to abuse, we, our brains, our bodies are always adapting to whatever circumstances we're going through. So whether it's an abusive relationship or like an abusive home family upbringing. We adapt to really extreme situations, and so our nervous systems can get used to chaos and dysfunction and pain and suffering, and we still might logically, and we feel the pain and we know, I hate this.

I don't want this anymore. But at the same time, if there's no escape or we don't feel like there's an escape, we have to adapt to that and find a way to survive. So we can get so used to living in these patterns that when we, you know, break out and we go out into the world and we're like, ah, I'm like leaving that behind me.

Our body is still sort of subconsciously looking for what's familiar to us. And so I, for my example, I chose someone who didn't scream at me, didn't, you know, call me worthless whore or whatever, stuff like that. Stuff that was really obviously. But was still kind of ticking those boxes. My nervous system was used to of like never really feeling like I could be totally open, totally myself.

But still getting those kind of like crumbs of love and affection here and there to like keep me hooked, so to speak. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So yeah, that's kind of one perspective that comes to mind. Yeah. I did something like, I think very similar and I'm glad that you said it clicked the boxes that your nervous system was used to, because that's what I realized when I reflect back on it.

Because when we broke up, I remember my coach at the time said, she's like, you're more upset. Five month situation ship ended than you were for your marriage. And I was like, I'm like, yes. I'm like, I really am. Yeah. And it was, but it was so strong because, but I also wasn't valuing myself at all. Like all I wanted was somebody that was fun.

You know? I didn't want all these other things. It was someone that's fun. Then it was not fun anymore.  and I was, or rather I had expectations of a real relationship is when it shifted. But I don't think I did that work. And I don't also don't think I was understanding like where trauma has showed up, like was showing up in these other areas.

And you talk a lot about that on your Instagram. So one of the questions I had for you was, can you tell me a little bit or tell us a little bit about how trauma or like the threads of trauma from the abusive relationship were showing up in your. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah, this is a, this is a big question, which is cool.

I'll just run with it. So, yeah, just, just so yeah, wherever it goes, you know, let it flow out. Cool. Yeah. So sometimes I think about the way that. Abusive relationships and families and systems and you know, cultural stuff can become a form of brainwashing that we almost can associate with like cults. You know, I think that's the most common place we hear of brainwashing.

But I think back to how someone manipulated me so extremely that I really. , like the entire way that I viewed myself, my entire sense of who I was, was completely like shattered and reworked into something that helped, that allowed me to stay within his control. So what I mean in more practical terms is like I had no sense of self-worth, self-respect, self-love.

I was really made into this sort of like object that really was only worth anything if I could provide or do things for him. And so, What is left behind when you kind of move out of that or something changes or you decide, I'm done with this, we're still left with this sense of self that is so deeply ashamed or, yeah, just kind of drowning in feelings of like, I'm not good enough.

There's something wrong with me. I'm too much. Like who I am is never enough. And so for me, that's definitely shown up in lots of ways. Like kinda eating disorder tendencies. Once again, relationships, choosing people that would kind of match that energy of like, I'm only loved and accepted when I'm providing for someone.

Um, we can take that to work and feel like I need to overwork myself and always say yes and never have boundaries that can show up in friendships and family. So kind of that like deep-rooted sense of unworthiness, I think can come out in many different. And until we really consciously decide to work with that and try to like heal that and create a new narrative for ourselves that is really rooted in self-compassion or even like neutrality or just something other than deep shame, we can just keep showing up in every area of our life.

Yeah. I like that when you touch on, you touched on all these other areas of life that it could be coming up and we could be like overcompensating in these ways and people pleasing Totally. And not having any boundaries. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.  and I see that so often. Yeah. And I see it with my clients. They focus mostly, I mean, and I know that I've done this myself too, mostly on the relational issue, not all these other areas that the relationship is affecting.

Totally. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, everyone's kind of got something that's maybe prioritized in the moment. And so for me, I'm thinking about how the last couple years I felt super stable. Content with my personal relationships of all kinds, but then the, a lot of the work I've had to do is having boundaries around work and like how much I tend to overwork myself or get like, so attached to the results of my business.

Stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that I've noticed, and every time I say anything about like my clients, I'm really also talking about myself. Like something that I've noticed been on this journey, and I know you have too, was that I needed to learn. I'm still learning this, that like having needs is not being needy and that it's okay to have needs and.

I'm sure you were in the space of feeling like you may be asking for too much or you had too many needs, but Sure. Every time I zoomed out I was always like, I'm asking for like the bare minimum of like a human experience. Yeah. . Um, so can you talk a little bit about like understanding what our needs actually are and Yeah.

Love this question. So into this because it's still something I am totally working on where I've noticed in some areas of my life, I am. , like very confident with making boundaries and asking for what I need. And then there's still times when I'm like, Hmm, like it's so hard. Mm-hmm. . But yeah. When it comes to needs, like, what I would kind of explain that as, or think about is, you know, we gotta think of our basic human needs like water, food, shelter.

Like safety and all of that is, you know, incredibly important. But I do think people generally know about that, so I don't really need to spend a lot of time touching on that. But when it comes to needs that we don't really think about, it's sort of more of those like emotional connection needs. So things like, yeah, connection is one.

Also privacy or being attuned to feeling like someone sees you feeling like you're heard, feeling like you can be your authentic. . And so a lot of these things we can, once again, using that word brainwashing or manipulation or conditioned to believe that we don't deserve to be our authentic self, or we don't deserve privacy, or we don't deserve connection, right?

And we should just, you know, suppress any of those needs, any of those desires that we have for ourself, and just settle for whatever we can get. And so that can work as far as survival goes. We can survive getting those bare minimum. Little crumbs and sort of settling for less than what we really desire, but we might notice that showing up like over and over again, this like repeated feeling of like, isolation, loneliness, depression, anxiety, like just not good in, in all sorts of ways.

And so sometimes, yeah, I feel like with my clients, with myself, probably your, you, your clients. Mm-hmm. , like we have to kind of look at. Where am I not allowing myself to want more or to need more? Or where am I saying, you know, oh, I don't have needs, I don't need this. But we really do, cuz we're human beings.

So a lot of times I just try to normalize the fact that we all have these emotional needs as children and as adults and it's, yeah, it's kind of a radical choice to decide like I get to, I get to need things, I get to ask for things. I get to receive things. Yeah. In the emotional world. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, you know, I've had more than one abusive relationship. Mm-hmm. . And I think one of the things that feels scary sometimes is like, how do I begin to express my need and under, and like the other person may not agree, but I can still hold that space for myself. Yeah. You know, so for example, , I'll actually use a client example from this week.

It was about reliability. Like if they say they're going to be somewhere, I wanna trust that they're actually gonna show up. Yeah. And that I'm not gonna be yelled at when they don't and I'm upset. Right. And so, you know, with that is tough. Yeah. And it's like staying in that power of mm-hmm. , I'm allowed to have.

I'm allowed to feel this. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I guess, how do you help people get in touch with their needs and what they actually want? Stay with us. We'll be right back. Let's talk about mental health. Hi, I am Dr. Jennifer Reed, a practicing psychiatrist and host of the Reflective Doc podcast. I started this podcast due to the increasing numbers of people who are struggling to find adequate sources for information and support on mental health issue.

On the podcast, I interview other psychiatrists, therapists, healthcare providers, and share my own tips about managing your anxiety, insomnia, depression, and grief and loss. You don't have to face this alone. We'll see you soon.

Yeah, that's a really good question. Well, yeah, sometimes we gotta play with this idea. Like the ideal scenario, like if we just get rid of all reality right now and just think like what are you really deeply craving? What is it you actually want? You know, and that can be really tricky sometimes it requires kind of this back and forth around like what resistance is showing up to that question.

Like what doesn't feel safe about answering that question or letting yourself desire something and maybe you notice what you really don't like. You know, sometimes that's a better avenue is. Okay. I really don't like when someone's not on time or when someone doesn't show up. And so it's like, okay, so maybe that means that you value reliability or you're really desiring to trust someone, and that's great, you know, so.

That's an interesting question, but kind of, yeah, through gentle question, like creating that safe container of like you can speak your mind fully here. Yeah. I'm not gonna force you. I think another thing is, at least as a coach and like a practitioner, is not like forcing an agenda on anyone and being like, yeah, okay, so if you name right now that.

Someone being unreliable is a red flag and that red flag shows up and you need to leave this guy or a girl or person. Exactly, exactly. We don't do that, but we're just like, let's just get curious about like what feels.  really upsetting about this and what that means about your needs or your desires for a relationship.

Yeah, so it's kinda what what I'm thinking. Yeah. I really like that. That's definitely something I practice with my clients too, of like, if we thought about what you wanted in a relationship, you know what you need in a relationship and it's not against this other person. Right. It's not like, you know, it's like sometimes we can make that list and it's like everything that we don't want in what we have right now, it's like, okay, so we have that.

Let's put that over here and now like we have the full. Yeah. I dunno idea of what's possible. Yeah, exactly. Right. And like kinda finding middle ground between this like incredible ideal and then reality and seeing like, okay, is there like a little step forward because it's unrealistic to expect you to just, you know, go from here to there.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think one of the hardest things is learning how to actually have a healthy relationship and what healthy means. Yeah. How did you begin to teach yourself what healthy meant? Ooh. Yeah. That's a really good question. I think for me personally, a lot of it came from.

Literally just looking at the exact opposite of that abusive relationship. And honestly, that kind of framework has served me really well in lots of different areas when I've felt confused or lost when it's like, I don't know really what I need, right? Or where healing is ready to take me next, or what I need to do for myself right now.

Sometimes just thinking like, what would the abuser want for me? What would the abuser tell me? And how can I do the exact opposite of that? Or how would the abuser treat me? And it's like, Hmm, okay. The opposite of that is what I'm gonna look for in a relationship now, in a friendship with my family, with work.

You know? So if you have this like horrific experience in the past of being treated horrib, Like, you can take that and look at, you know, what did that teach me about what I do not want? And what is the opposite of that? Or what is, you know, certainly a very contrasted, um, part of that. So, a big part of me, part of me when it comes to.

Shifting from unhealthy to the extreme to healthy relationships, uh, was differentiating between love and respect. That was a big one that I thought about a lot because I was constantly told how much I was loved by these two guys. I dated the one that was a really abusive in high school, and the other one that was just like, it was an unhealthy relationship.

Mm-hmm. . Um, they, you know, they told me they loved me all the time, and when I left them, they were very upset and threatening, you know, harm. Stuff I'm not gonna get into. But they didn't want me to go. They loved me so much, but they didn't respect me at all. Like as a human being, as a person, I was an object for them to use and exploit as they desired.

So moving forward from that, I was like, Hey, I don't really care if you love me that much. Sure I do. , you know, my attachment definitely wants that, but I've been through so much shit that now it's like, if you don't respect me, I'm outta here like immediately. So I actually became kind of like rigid with my rules a little bit when it comes to relationships, or I'm like, yo, I gotta like look out for myself.

I can't be messing around anymore. So that's one thing that I really focused on was like, do I get a sense that they're treating me with respect or do they just love me because of what I can do? That's a really good point. I actually said that to my partner a few weeks ago. I said, he was like, oh, but I love you.

Like I, you know, I love you so much. And I was like, I don't give a shit if you love me, . Yeah. And, and he was like, What . Yeah. But, but I was, I mean, I was pissed and like I was triggered, you know? And um, but it, but it was exactly, you said it like so much better than, I think I even said it in my own head of be love doesn't sometimes matter anymore.

It's more about like, is there respect? Is there value? Like is a revalued, is there. Right. Are you seeing me as a person? You know, all of that stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. And especially because I think like in long-term healthy relationships, the sensation of love is gonna wane, and you know it's gonna go up and down.

Like you're not always gonna be infatuated with this person. There's gonna come a time where it's so normal to see them every day, that you don't just feel like, oh my God, I'm so in love, but do you still respect them? Do you honor their humanity? Like that's what really matters to me. Yeah. So I try to live by.

Yeah. Yeah. When in a new relationship, or I know this for a lot of my clients, they'll start dating and they start to get triggered pretty quickly and. I think the triggers are probably very old in some capacity, but they're also most likely directly related to the abuse. Yes. And I know that in my history it would like shut me down a lot of times.

Like where that rigidity that you just kind of talked about would come into play. Like the wall would go back up and it didn't allow this like softness that I was trying to lean into or, or at least embrace a little bit. Like I didn't wanna be a sponge, but I wanted to also not be the great wall. Great.

Yeah. So when you have clients that are dealing with like their emotional triggers, whether they're from childhood or from the past relationship, how do you help them, I guess, make peace with them or befriend them? Yeah. Yeah. Well, one way that I really like approaching kind of the concept of triggers and how trauma shows up in our bodies is through the polyvagal theory, which was, is a theory that was created by Steven Pges.

Uh, just credit. Um, but mm-hmm. . Yeah. It really goes into how our nervous systems are impacted by trauma, and so, you know, Condense this into then answer to this question, when we're triggered, our bodies do like no longer are within our window of tolerance, and we no longer are feeling what would be called like the safe and social nervous system state.

And we need to be in that safe and social nervous system state to connect with other people, like period. You know? So if we are jumping out of that into fight or flight or what you're describing as like freeze or shutdown, we've kind of lost the physical capability to feel open, receptive, connected. We are now armoring.

We are trying to, we're gonna start a fight. Maybe we're gonna try to get the hell out, we're gonna shut down and just, you know, and so I try to really like not take away our sense of agency and choice. Of course, I want to always think about our agency and choice, but to kind of just name that, like if you're going into fight or flight or freeze or shut down, that's not like a moral failure.

You can't like will your way out of. You don't need to pretend you're okay when you're not. So I think when you're feeling like truly triggered and something is activating you, that's the time to find a way to take care of yourself. And so there's a lot of different ways to do that depending on like what kind of state you're in.

And there's ways that we can do that with our partners or friends or family. And there's ways that we can tend to ourselves, you know, by ourselves.  and then coming back, like, you know, when you tend to that, when you move through that, then finding a time when you're back in that safe and social nervous system state to approach connection, repair, repairing the conflict, working through it, instead of trying to force yourself to be, you know, open and vulnerable and connecting to them.

When you are, your whole body is saying, get me outta here. This isn't safe. I'm gonna die, whatever. So yeah, that's something that I talk about a lot and it's really helped me a lot person. Yeah. Yeah. And I think as when we are stuck in that trauma response, or at least, you know, definitely when I was in that, like my, so my last relationship before the one I'm in now was highly, highly emotionally abusive.

It's like that's how, actually how I learned what emotional abuse really was like and what it felt like when a trauma bond was. And I talk about it a lot because my marriage was more of a, when I left it, I have a one I, at that time, I had a one year old, she's now six, but it was like this survival mode.

Absolutely. You know, kinda like what you talked about. Like, oh, I'm fine, I'm good. I'm just, this is over here. And then it was like, Jesus Christ, the last one. Yeah. And what I realized was that when I'm in conflict, or if my partner and I now get into conflict, I really do have a part of me that wants to run.

Yeah. Like there's a, there's this large trigger that comes up that's like, I'm out. Which I've never really had before until he pointed out like, you keep saying you're gonna leave the relationship. And I was like, oh, shit do. Right. Yeah. That's like a, you know, and that pause I think, can feel so traumatizing at times because when we've experienced the silent treatment, it's.

You know, or the silent treatment or like purposeful long pauses to make us uncomfortable. It can feel like right hell, mm-hmm. . Yeah. I just like really respect your openness and vulnerability like on your podcast and just, you know, with me as well.  because I just think that is how we serve others is by saying like, look, you're not alone with this for real.

Like you literally go through this too, and it's still possible to have a good relationship and a good life, even when you're dealing with this stuff. Like everyone has stuff they're working on. But yeah, to be what you said specifically, I totally relate. And that feeling of like, I need to get outta here.

Like, I try to respect it as like, damn, that is my body trying to take care of me. And yeah, it kind of sucks that it's, you know, hurting someone else or like we're, you know, it's not ideal, but okay. Like, it's not, I'm not being, I'm not punishing myself right now for a response that I can't control. But let's try to find a way to, like, for me it's like, okay, like let's go walk around the block by myself.

Yeah. Just like, get it out, you know, and then come back and like, oh, like, okay, now we can talk. But it's tough. Yeah, and I think like part of being in a healthy relationship, and I'm still learning this, is that like sometimes those pauses and that space to reregulate is so important. Like we don't really have that in an abusive relationship.

Like we don't, like if you go away, you're scolded for it, right? If like you interrupt the silence that they're demanding, you're, you know, it's like, There's all these ways that you have to sit in this discomfort. And for me, I actually for a while was actually blaming my partner for the silence. Like I was like, no, like my current partner who would be closer on the healthy, like, you know, all really issues, but he's definitely healthier.

You know, he's not abusive. But I would say, you know, I need like, I can't do this, you know? Yeah. But at first, like I think the first time I ever said it was like, you can't be silent was probably what I said. And then it turned out to be like, no, I can't. I can't say I can't handle it. Exactly. Yeah. I need to go for a walk and I'll come back.

Oh, I hear you. Yeah. I also, I've been in a relationship for six years and he, he is much more of like an internal processor. So even when we're not in a conflict, but more like need to make a decision about dinner or whatever, this man is gonna get quiet. He is not gonna talk. And I am over here like, what's wrong?

What's wrong? Why aren't you talking, you know, just like frantically trying to like figure out what I did or whatever. So I definitely feel you on that. It is so uncomfortable and yeah, so like I've developed all sorts of ways to try to cope with that over the years. But I do think that as you stay with someone and you feel more comfortable to like name, like, this is how I'm feeling, you don't need to change who you are.

I just want you to know like, or. Find ways to, like, sometimes even just like fidgeting with my hands, like doing something like, yeah, do the dishes. Like just do something so you're not just like sitting there waiting because yeah, it's, it's horrible what abusers do to us in our nervous systems and teach us that we're unsafe all the time.

It's, yeah. I have a few questions for you. Hey, but I wanna make sure that we get in because they are, they were sent in af on through Instagram, so Perfect. Okay, I'll just go with the first one. So what are signs to look out for or things to do differently next time to avoid getting into a relationship with an emotionally abusive partner?

Ooh. Yes. Great question. Yeah. Ooh. It's a, it's a big one. Um, so I would say before you go out into the dating world, kind of come up with almost like a personal manifesto or some sort of maybe written document, or maybe it's on your phone or whatever, like a brainstorm where you go over. What you want in a relationship?

What feels like a yes to you? What feels like a no to you? What is like a yellow flag of like, Hmm, I'm not sure. And it can be really kind of hard to do that, and I recognize that. So don't feel like you need to just come up with that outta your brain. Um, like I was naming earlier, you can look at past relationships that.

Perhaps traumatic or just not, they just didn't work out. Um, and thinking, what about those relationships? It was like a hard no. Like what do I look back on now and say, oh man, like I didn't notice it at the time, but that was a huge red flag. You know, get that written down. And then, you know, maybe exploring like TV shows, books, movies, places where you do see healthy relationships shown if you don't necessarily have any in your life or know what that's like for you and just.

okay. What tells me this seems healthy? Like, what feels safe about this? Why do I love watching this couple? Like, and, you know, believe that they're healthy. And then you can also do, of course, like research with books, um, articles online. You know, start researching like, what does a healthy relationship look like?

Obviously that's a big part of my course as well. Um, so there's lots of free resources about that. But yeah, starting to kind of name those things for yourself and like get acquainted with that, like in your brain instead of just like diving in, which, you know, granted I pretty much just dove in. I'm, I'm speaking now from a lot of perspective, but I think the more clarity we have over what we want, this is true for like job hunting too, honestly.

Like the more we are comfortable naming, like I want someone who respects my boundaries. I want someone that doesn't do this, this, and this. , it sets us up for success because the second we start dating and interacting with people, all our attachment stuff, all our triggers, all our conditioning is gonna be like, Hey, remember me?

You know? And yeah, and that's fine. But if we have something to lean on and look at, but it can also be something you talk about with, you know, a professional or even just like a friend or someone that you really trust or feel like is on your side. Sometimes I think when we tell someone else about like the plans we have or the goals we have, it can help us, um, stay connected with them even when we.

Going out into the dating world and things are getting messy, so Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I always say like, Rita, really think about what you want. And then if the person you're dating doesn't have that, like don't draw like these like squiggly lines to like the other side of like, oh, well this sort of has it so we get like a dotted line.

It's like, right. Is it there or is it not? Or is it that not that important to you as you first realized? Exactly. It's that we can't play these games. Yes, exactly. Love that. The other question, How long does it normally take to figure out if you're dating somebody who is abusive? Ooh, that's a really question.

That one's a tough one. I know. Dunno, . Like you really don't know. So maybe like I wanted to ask it the way that they worded it, just in case that did bring up something to you. But what I really think they're asking for, like what are some signs to look out for Sure. Yeah. What I was gonna say is I think three to six months is something I feel like I've heard is like when people are gonna start showing their true colors.

So, I personally would make a rule with myself of like, I am not moving in with someone until a year or something. Like I am not tying my life together with someone in any way that is difficult to untangle for like a year, I would think. I would say now, because you need time to see them in lots of different situations and like for those, those mass.

To come down if they are abusive. But yeah, some signs I would look out for is like how you feel in your body when they make certain comments or like, I don't know, just hanging out with them in general. Like so many times our gut instinct is completely overruled by trauma, but I do think that as time goes on we can start to really sense like, oh, like that little jab they made at me didn't feel good.

And like when I brought. They made me feel like I was stupid for caring. Like, okay, like that's a red flag, you know? And it's not as simple as them being like super mean or whatever, but it's just like this subtle sign of like, ah, like that didn't feel good. And a thing that I constantly bring up is like, it's not necessarily about.

The red flags, like written in stone or like written books or, um, articles. It's more about like if you personally feel a red flag, whether it's because of your past trauma or because it's literally a red flag and you bring it up to them, how the, how do they respond? Do they respond with.  taking you seriously, giving a shit, making you feel better.

Or do they respond with, oh, you're crazy, or, oh, you're being too much or whatever. Like, it's not a big deal. Like do they gas? It's always something with you. Exactly. Exactly. And so like that's the shit to like keep, like look out for and like sense into. And then I just feel like if you're asking this question, working with someone like one of us or a therapist or something, Is so helpful because then you don't need to like do all the like math in your head.

You have someone there that has a more objective view of like, you know, I can help you see, does this bring up a red flag for me? Because when you're in that you might be once again used to all sorts of chaos and dysfunction and not able to see it. So you deserve support person asking this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which I mean, and also like I think if it's hard to talk about it to somebody else, there's probably something going. Inside too. Totally. Exactly. Yeah. Which is valid. But you know, part of that breaking the cycle is like you don't have to do it all on your own anymore. As hard as it's to reach out. Yeah. I mean, I've loved talking to you.

I feel like we could do this for like another, like I know, so can you go over just your offerings, how people can find you and all of stuff. Yeah, thanks for giving me the space to do that, and it's been wonderful to talk to you too. Yeah. Yeah, so kind of like the hub where everything can be found is my website, which is emmy marie.com.

I offer lots of different things, so I do one-to-one coaching. I also do. Two different courses that are offered kind of throughout the year. One is about relationships, one is about like authenticity and being your most true self. And then I do have a low cost membership community as well for trauma survivors, where I do workshops every month and we have community calls.

And so that's sort of like my special like community. And then I also have a lot of free resources on my website as well as my Instagram and TikTok. Yeah, that's a bit about me and where you can find me . Awesome. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you. It was wonderful. It was wonderful.