Ep. 797: Mindsets of the Whitetail Masters: Ben Rising

Whitetail Masters series. So, as I mentioned last week when we kick this off with John Aberhart, the idea here is to get a look behind the scenes, kind of look behind the curtains, look under the hood, understand what's going on in the minds of the best of the best deer hunters. Not necessarily what their favorite tactics are, not necessarily what they think about certain aspects of deer behavior or deer sign or how they shoot their beut

whatever is. I want to know how they do all those things from the beginning, Like what are the ways they think through challenging things, how do they solve problems, what are the habits that are important for them, what's the work ethic look for, what does their mental toughness comprise up? Those are the kinds of things that I'm interested in getting into. I want to understand the gears.

I want to understand the machinery inside the V eight engine that powers these guys to be such incredible deer hunters.

That's what we're trying to do in this series. And I've done this with a series of twenty questions that I'm asking every one of these different, you know, elite deer hunters, running them through the questions, so that we can then compare all of these different folks, see what they have in common, see where there might be some unique aspects, and then what you know each and every one of us can learn from all that. So that's the plan for today's episode. As I mentioned, our guest

is Ben Rising. He has been a frequent guest on the podcast and he's well known within the world of whitetail hunters. He first came I think, to notoriety through his time with Drury Outdoors. More recently, his own show called Whitetail Edge has continue to showcase his you know, incredible knack for finding, targeting, and putting tags on giant old whitetail deer. He's one of the best of the

best out there. He hails from Ohio, but hunts all over the country and he's one of those guys who is laser focused on his goals and you're going to understand I think a little bit more about how he does that and why he does that after listening to our conversation today, I just want to give you one heads up before we.

cover here on the podcast. So we've got new videos coming out that break down the importance of you know, really understanding how you read tracks, We're really understanding rubs, We're really understanding scrapes, getting into the minutave of what deer eat when they eat, how to determine what deer are eating, what you know right now. These are the kind of things that sometimes in these podcasts we just gloss right over. We just assume that everybody has the

same basic understanding as Tony and I do. But what we find out over and over and over again is that that is not necessarily the case. So we want to provide that baseline resource for everybody. You watch these videos, you'd be caught up to speed. You can listen to the rest of the podcast, or if you already feel like these things are well known by yourself, pass them on to your buddies who are earlier in their hunting journey, pass these on to new hunters, have your kids watch them.

Whatever it might be. We're hoping these can be really helpful resources. The show is called Whitetail Edu and you can find it over at the meat eater Clips YouTube channel. That's meat eater clips Clips, So if you go to YouTube search for that you'll find it. Make sure you subscribe, make sure you like that video, make sure you pass it on to your friends and family. That'll keep me and Tony employed by meet Eater and keeping us able to produce these podcasts for you. So thank you in

advance for doing that. And enough for me, I think we'll just get to my chat with Ben Rising here in the second episode of our Mindsets the White Tail Masters series. Enjoy all right with me now on the show, back for I don't know, maybe the third or fourth time something like that. Yeah, yeah, thank you for joining me, Ben.

strategic things. But we're kicking off the series this month, Ben, in which I'm trying to kind of look under the hood, you might say, kind of get behind the scenes into the minds of people like you who are just very, very consistently successful. What makes that kind of person tick. What are the little things they do? What are the little things that are different about how you think than how other people think. That's the kind of stuff we're

going forward this one. So I've got a list of about twenty questions here, Ben that I've been asking a number of different people, the best of the best whitetail hunters, and in walking through the same set of questions about these mindsets, about your thought process, that kind of stuff. And so that's what I'm looking for here is is kind of the the why behind some of this stuff. So that's a high level plan. Does that sound Does that sound.

for me than I do myself, if that makes sense. So, but I'm also, I guess aware of the fact that depending on where I'm hunting and what I'm doing also determines what my success rate should be or what I can consider a successful hunt, you know, whether it even involves like a harvest or not. But you know, if I'm hunting something like that's you know, in my home state where I have a lot of access to it, can you know, do a lot of scouting things like

that have history with deer. Well, I always feel like if I don't kill that deer that I'm after, then I'm not successful, you know, without a doubt. You know, I'm used to putting the tag on something that I'm after. If I'm out of state or on a very new piece of property and somewhere that I've never hunted and I only have a few days to hunt, success can be in different levels there to me, you know, whether I harvest a nice buck or I just had a great time and I learned a lot something that I

can imply for the next season. Did I see a lot of deer? You know, if I'm not seeing anything or putting myself in the roundhouse of at least things, that then I don't consider that successful. You know. I feel like I've been doing this long enough that you know, you should be able to drop me out of an airplane about anywhere, and I should be able to get come close to getting it done, you know, on a decent hear.

my living, you know. I mean, I'm a timber guy by trade, logging, that's what I do every day, buying timber, moving, logging, cruise around, cruising, timber, things like that. But you know, White till Edge has become so much a bigger part of my living than I ever expected it to be. So success has to happen in order for your fan base to keep wanting to follow an old man. You know, as I age, you know, I'm not twenty five anymore like I was with the juries. You know, I'll be

fifty here in a couple couple of weeks. And you know, so I do feel like I even feel that pressure because a lot of people, and please I say this humbly, people have come to expect Ben Rising to shoot really big dear.

they're shooting smaller deer. No, it's all up to you. What I mean, whatever makes you happy. I've just killed so many deer in my time that for me, I get nothing out of shooting, you know, one hundred and twenty five inch deer, if that makes sense. Or now, if I was in a hillside in the middle of West Virginia on a mountain side or PA and I shot one hundred and twenty five hundred and thirty inch four year old buck, I'd be ecstatic. So it's all

relative to where we're at. But failure for me too is like I was saying, like, if we're if we get to a point where we're taking the hunting out of hunting, that's a failure. If we're taking the enjoyment out of it, If it's becoming, if you're being driven to hunt more by wanting to show off what you've killed than the experience, then I feel we're failing, or I feel I've failed if I let that get in my way.

I got to hang my own stands. He just gave me a part of the farm to hunt. But the farm was really known for having really big, gnarly mature you know, hill country white tails in Illinois and had little tiny bean fields or cornfields up in the tops, very steep ridges, creek bottoms, swamp had a lake on it. It was just an epic piece of ground. It ended up selling later on, actually it ended up selling the

next year after this hunt took place. But long story short, when it comes to a calling deer, this deer taught me so much like the failure of this deer has probably been the death of twenty cents, if that makes sense.

do I see a deer, I don't know? Yeah, And honestly that kind of sucks sometimes, you know what I mean, I do because it's like, oh, that's so, and so that's you know, and even honey, yeah, even hunting public land. They were like private land that I run cameras on. I still know what I typically know what I'm probably

gonna see. But anyways, we're sitting there, we're hunting. We'd set up on it just inside from this bean field, and I wanted to set up in a situation where I could see because I was going to rely on calling to really be a big factor. I was set up close to some good trails, but I wanted to set myself in a situation where I feel like I could, you know, take advantage of seeing a deer maybe cross the field, or you know, maybe call to it, get

it to come to me. You know. So again we're talking twenty years ago at this point, you know, I was still young guy, learning, still learning. I was a good, pretty good killing it at that point, had got quite a few successful hunts on tape already for druries, but I wasn't prepared for what was to happen that day.

We're sitting there and we'd seen a few dos come out through the field and was milling around and kind of went back in a little buck or two and then all of a sudden, I just happened to look up across this field and it was about probably two hundred yards across the field maybe, and I can just see this deer standing there, looking straight out into the field, just bigger than life, just standing there. I don't even know where she came from. All of a sudden, it

was just this beautiful buck is standing there. And as I'm looking at him and he turns his head, the tree that I thought he was standing by moved and I'm like, oh my gosh, that is this flipping rack. And I couldn't to this day, I've never seen a deer like this. And it was a weird deer. It was like it wasn't one of the deer that do this. It was one of those deer that did this straight like just kind of go.

great whatever. But anyway, so I start calling to this deer to where what I should have done was just been like, let's just see what he's gonna do, you know, like he was gonna work a scrape. I felt like he was just gonna go back in the timber. And I think that's why I started to get a little antsy. But I start kind of laying it on this deer,

and I wasn't paying attention to his body language. You know, this is which is what I talk a lot about now that I've learned, and you know, he basically was telling me I'm not interested or I'm a little bit

spooked by what you're doing. And I just kept putting the pressure on this deer and he just he just finally just tucked back into the timber, you know, and I'm like, dag gone it, you know, and I'm upset, and you know, he kind of had wagged his tail a few times, which tells you he knows you're there. You know, Like when I first did a small rattling sequence and grunted a few times, he wagged his tail and he kind of looked and he was interested. For all I know, he had a hot dough behind him

in the woods that he may have never left. I just don't know. But if i'd have known what that meant at the time, I would have just backed off that he heard me, like he's saying, Okay, I got you. Yeah, I can hear that. I'm comfortable, but no, I kept putting the heat on and it kind of made him. Yeah, he just went into the timber. Well here, I'm thinking, okay, it's completely over this. I just totally screwed this up, and I'm mad, you know, And it just kind of

took me out of my mind frame. And I'm sitting there in the stand, and like twenty minutes later, even I finally like my camera guy's behind me. He's looking into the woods, so I'm thinking everything's fine, but he's kind of looking a different direction. I'm watching the field keep glass and thinking maybe this deer is just gonna pop out and show up or I'll get lucky, you know, And I finally get frustrated and I just kind of stand up and I say to my care I just

can't believe I did that. And I hear, oh no, and I turn and that deer is in the woods, sneaking in from behind us. He's at twenty five steps and he was sneaking in trying to get down wind of us. And when I stood up and started, he it. You know, he caught me. And I had no idea he was there, but he was coming, and I mean, I'll never forget it. Like obviously I didn't get him brutal. Now, yeah, we didn't get it on film nothing because Pete, you know, by the time Pete turned and you know, it was

over all you saw was King Kong sneaking. And he didn't even he didn't even bolt, like he literally just walked out of there like I knew. I knew it, like he was doing it to disprove that he knew what was going on.

grunt to them or rattle or anything. You know, if I could fast forward to today and that deer did the same thing, you'd probably die, you know. So it's just, if anything, I should have just let him be, and maybe I could have made a move on the deer, you know what I mean. And I ended up killing a really good deer the next day because I did try to move, thinking well, maybe he'd just go back to that area, and you know, we hunted a little different field the next ridge, over thinking maybe he'd do

something different. But I ended up killing a really nice buck the next day, a big, mature deer. But it wasn't that deer.

you know. But if I had to say a name that, like, you know, I think a lot of people know when it comes to you know, harvesting mature deer and you know, really good dear, you know, without a doubt. Mark Durry is one of those guys that I mean. And then and the hard part for people to understand today is that they forget where Mark came from. Mark hasn't always hunted out of box blinds. He hasn't always you know, hadn't managed farms. He hasn't, you know what I mean.

Like it's just neither has Michael Waddell or Terry or a lot of these guys, like they grew up hunting just like normal people, and they just became famous from their success and over time. But they were deer killers, you know what I mean. Steve Stoltz another one, Don Kiskey, same thing, you know, Lee Lukowsky. I mean, and I know there's a lot of people now that they're always say, well,

if I can hunt how they do. I could kill those bucks too, where they hunting zoos or you know which you know, and none of those guys are gonna sit there and tell you they're not hunting great ground now,

But they didn't always hunt like that, you know. To make this video and hunting industry what we have made it and what it's come into, I mean, I've been doing this twenty five years, you know, back when we were filming on tapes and you know, it was VCR tapes that were the productions that come out, you know, so like to get the hunting industry where it has come though, like it wasn't always on this kind of dirt.

Like these guys were hunting public they were some of the older jury tapes are just those things weren't killing

always giant deer. But we're always having success success. But what Mark is really good at is being very analytical and tear and piecing together things of like just that's why they be That's how Deer Cast came about and all these things of years of them keeping notes of what they noticed, like with moon phases and cold fronts, and like they've taught us all a lot of these different things that maybe a lot of us wouldn't have caught like you know, your average white tail hunter doesn't

pay attention to a lot of that kind of stuff. You know, I picked up on a lot of things early in life, on things like that, But I do believe it helped me being around people like Mark and Terry and people like Leelak talking to Lee La Cosky once in a while, and we're going back to the days before any of us was any super famous at all,

if that makes sense, and bouncing things off people. And you know what I was just really altered good at was picking a certain deer out and grinding so hard on that deer that he just I just would never let up on him, like you know a lot of times, Oh I killed him in the first or second sit, third sit, But sometimes I'd have to grind and hunt one like a you know, like a tick on a

deer's back. But Mark and them are just very good at those kinds of things, of picking mother nature apart and figuring out what deer are going to do and move. You know, Andrea Toquisto is another one, you know, very methodical at hunting deer and tight covered in their beds, and you know, that's an art form. You know, I've never hunted with Andre, but you know, the guy has killed numerous really big deer in those kinds of situations. Just the killer, you know, I just would have to say.

You know, it's the list can be long. You know. There's people I don't know but I've heard names of. But there was a guy years ago when I was a kid that I really looked up to. His name was ron Osborne. And you'll have to look it up on the internet. Look up to ron Osborne buck. It's like a baby hole in the born and it was killed in Mahoning County, Ohio back in the eighties. And then he killed a giant six point like the next year.

But this was back in the days when Miles Keller's face was on the bottles of scent shield and things like that. Like I'm talking mid eighties and so, you know, just very cool. Miles Keller killed a lot of big deer. But ron Osborne was a guy that really had it figured out of hunting big deer on fence lines, you know, on field edges or close to swamps and pinoak woods. And I actually talked to this guy one time on

a logging job. I was like eighteen years old, seventeen years old and was working the log landing that dad had come out from cutting timber in the woods. And here I was cutting right next to where he had just killed this big deer a couple of years earlier. And I didn't, you know, like eight years earlier, and I was just a young guy working for this timber company at the time. But when he come driving up on his four wheeler, I recognized him and I was like,

you're ron Osborne. And he was just kind of like took him back that I even knew who he was, and you know, and I remember telling him I was like, someday I'm gonna kill a big deer, like you do.

great deer hunter. Like can you think of was there any inflection point, Was there any moment or any time when you change this thing or realize this thing and all of a sudden it was like your eyes opening to this whole new world, and that change your success in a big way moving forward. Can you think of anything like that?

I was there was no turning back. And I learned a lot from that deer by scouting him and watching him and just different things. And I learned a little bit about cold fronts more and was putting some of those things together, betting areas, scrapes, how they how a big buck works. Because after I killed that deer, then I went, I dove right in to where he was at, and I learned as much about that deer as I could learn. I learned about his betting area, like where

he was always at, what it looked like. I laid in his beds, you know, I sat in his beds, you know, And I just tried to just pick everything apart that I could pick apart and learn from it. And that deer probably set me on the course of you know, looking at big bucks from a deer's eyes, you know, or like hunting big deer, trying to think like a big deer.

I do like to learn. But I always typically end up going back during shed season or whatever and really kind of investigate to think to see what I thought that deer was doing, if I was right or not. You know. But then there's sometimes you know, you kill big bucks that like you're just calling deer. You you don't even know where that deer came from, so you know, obviously in that situation, you wouldn't you.

about something that's happened more recently. Can you think of anything in the last five years, any new belief, a new habit you've picked up, a new tactic that you recently you know, stumbled upon, or something was shared with you that has dramatically improved your hunting. Is there anything in the last five years that stands out as one of those recent like game changers for you.

It made me dive more into like the true details of hunting scrapes and how bucks use them and react to them. And so that has definitely been probably one of those things that have helped me trick some really big deer close to betting, you know, and we have video footage of some of that, like, you know, deer we called splits a couple of years ago in Ohio. I mean, I've just killed you know a lot of big deer around those scrape areas, in certain types of scrapes.

So that's definitely that's probably been the biggest thing. And I've learned a lot about deer lure because you know, I grew up trapping and lure was important. Fresh lure was important. Well, it's the same with deer hunting. You know, true real fresh deer lure is very important compared to dark looking bottles of deer p or urine that have been sitting on a Walmart shell for months, you know, for years, even, like it's just not even the same.

or whatever. But most of the scrapes that I feel like that I can really truly harvest a deer on, Like if it's a particular buck and I kind of know where he's at, I want to try to set up a scrape or two that's in between his bed and where he's eventually trying to go that that evening, you know, if that makes sense, so it's convenient for

him to hit it or you know whatever. Sometimes I'll set one up in an area where there's does you know, dough betting area, and I know those bucks are going to be using certain trails to get to that dough betting area, and I want to stage them up before he goes down wind of it or whatever he's going to do. So that's kind of what I look for. You know, most of the times those kind of scrapes are a little bit in the timber. They're not exactly

out on the edge. Now. I do make mock scrapes depending on like tree lines and you know edge cover, like catching deer going from whatever, or like a deer's coming into the edge of a food plot to you know, check for dose on an early October cold front. A scrape on the edge of a place like that is money because they are going to hit that scrape every time before they even go about their business. They're going to hit it, Yeah, before they even start feeding.

one shot one day at sixty yards. But that day I saw that deer, I realized, I don't think this deer is what he can be yet, and I took a huge gamble, I mean like a monster gamble because the neighbors were all over this deer. This wasn't a very big piece of property that this deer was that I was hunting him on. Literally guys hunting each side of the property, which is only four hundred yard wide, so two hundred yards each way from the center of

the property there's tree stands. I took a gamble by not hunting this deer and like putting more pressure on him and trying to get him killed. Once I realized that I really thought he had another year, Like I felt like he could do better, you know, be more. And so when I did that and I gave that up, you know, it was hard to back off because the deer was mid eighties at that point, pretty easy, you know, probably push a ninety thanks. And I literally prayed about it.

I mean I did, Like I just I didn't pray for the deer, but I just I said, you know, lord, I was like, you know, I want to shoot this deer, like I'm taking a chance, but I don't think he's ready,

and I'm going to back off. And I just know that, like, if if it's meant for me to kill this deer next year, you're gonna you're gonna protect him and I'll get a chance at him, Like you're gonna I'm gonna honor you in this situation, and I'm gonna trust you that if this is what's meant to be, I'm going to back off and I'll kill him the next year. And I killed him October seventh of the following year, So on a cold front that was unexpected. I wasn't

planning to go hunt. I ended up taking the chance. I had sprinklings of intel of that deer. It wasn't like he was just all over me, Like I just had sprinklings that he was around, and I went with my gut and on day four I whacked him. And it was just a very humbling, eye opening experience of like because you know, not everybody believes in God, understand that or whatever.

honor you. I mean, I've told a story about that with a deer Roman that I shot bad a couple of years ago. Gut shot really bad. Back got hanging out, but I knew he wouldn't go far. But he didn't bleed at all, Like I couldn't find any blood hardly, just little specks. And he was headed towards the neighbors in a really thick hill country area, and I knew they wouldn't be fond of me going to get the deer.

And like, finally I sat down on a stump. After tracking him, I went seventy five yards and it took me an hour and a half. That's how slow I was going, looking for every little tiny and I had scanned this whole hillside with my binoculars. I couldn't see

him and literally I could see the property line. And I just sat down and I'm like, I just went to the lord, and I was like, Lord, I need your help, Like I just I'm I'm at a loss, Like I don't think I'm going to find this deer the way it's going, Like he's either going to be in a property and we both know what that's going to lead to. And I was like, man, I really could use your help if you could, you know, And I promise I'll tell this story if you help me

find this deer. How I prayed to you about it, and you know, I just really humbled myself before him in Mark, I'm not kidding you. I stood up off that stump, took three steps, and that deer was at forty yards laying beside the three and I had looked I had, I had glassed that spot. I'm pretty sure I should have seen the deer. Now I'm not saying that, you know, like he just but something divine happened. Yeah, And I mean I never felt like I mean it

was it sent chills through my body. I mean I cried, like literally had tears, and I mean I just got emotional because it was like he was right there. Wow, Like it was so I I don't know, man, like I guess I would say that. I don't want to sound like some kind of yo yo.

And this dog was a rescue dog that she had rescued off the road, and like just a crazy story with this dog. But you got to go. I'd literally just posted it the other day. You have to go watch it. It's like a twelve minute thing, but same thing. We were coming home that night. The dog hadn't come back, and she was, you know, I could tell it was really bothering her, you know, And we had to go for a meeting somewhere and we couldn't be back till

late that night. And we live in a very very remote area of Ohio, like dirt roads, like just blocks, thousands of acres of timber around me. And I literally when we turned the bottom of the hill and I had about a mile and a half to go to my house, I literally did one of the same prayers and I was like, God, I know you can do this, and I need you to do it because I know my wife isn't going to sleep tonight, Like I just know it. And I said, I believe in you so much.

I've seen the things you've done for me in the past, and like how you work, and I know you want good things for us. I know sometimes bad things happen in life, but you can always make good things come from them if we trust you. And I said, I have faith that you can do this. And I said, I want that dog standing in the middle of the road before before the time we topped this hill, because I don't want to have to have my wife go to sleep tonight without that dog. And there was two

dogs missing. And when we turned up the hill made the curve, we had about another three hundred yards ago, and that dog and the other dog were sitting in the middle of the road, just sitting there waiting on us. Jeez, dude, craziest thing. Like it was like my wife's like, oh, there they are, and I'm like, no, you don't understand. Like she didn't know I was praying when when we were driving, you know, she didn't know that, Like she had no clue. And I I mean, dude, it was wow,

Like I don't know. I've just had those experiences that it's just no way that it's not real, you know what I mean, Like it's just no way, chills, it's just it's just I just I've had too many of those experiences in my life that I know, I know, you know, what I mean, and I truly believe he. I do believe that He will shine favor or you know, in people's situations that truly have that kind of faith, if that makes sense.

he should be first. But I've really come around to you know, the scripture that talks about blessed is the man who finds happy is the man who finds wisdom and gains understanding and seeks it. And I'll be truthful like that has saved me from so many bad decisions later in life, like business decisions or you know. I and I want to make people understand or listen, just like if they're still with us here, because sometimes when you start talking about God, it drives people away, you

know what I mean. So it's like, and I've always taken that chance with my show, Like that's one thing I've always prayed about with my show White Till Edge, is that God will use my platform for me to be able to spread His kingdom to a degree or the good news. But I hope like these stories of my experiences can maybe like help people and be like wow,

that's pretty interesting. Yeah, you know, like I'm not giving some kakam amy story of like you know, I healed the demon out of that, you know what I mean. It's not those kinds of things. It's just basically having that connection if you so so you will And and I never pray for like God, I want can can I have this big deer? You know? I want going hunting to day Lord? And I want you to put that buck right in my lap, Like I don't ask for those things. Like I boldly asked for that dog

to be in the road the other day. Like that's as bold as I've ever really asked for anything in prayer. Typically I don't pray like that. But like, I don't know if you'd say I was somewhat like testing. I wasn't really testing, because you're not supposed to test God, but I truly had so much faith. I was like,

I know he can do it. I know he can, like you know, and I'm just like why not, you know, Like God, I just want that dog to be sitting in the middle of the road to make our life easier tonight and she'll sleep and she'll be happy, and that dog is you know whatever, and bam there he was, so like I guess that's just But like, praying for wisdom and understanding has been a huge change in my life as far as like when it comes to decisions and being able to discern things or walk away from things,

or like, have you ever had like with what you do, you know, trying to get sponsors or certain business dealings. I mean, if you ever had those instances where you're like, man, this just isn't coming together, and you're kind of pushing hard on it, and you're like, I don't understand this, you know, and like you're kind of getting upset, and then it just doesn't work out, and you're just like, man, and then all of a sudden, three months later, that

company's out of business. Yeah, or they're not paying their bills, or something else happened, or it's just the simplest thing of like maybe your car gave you car trouble that morning, or there was a tree across the road and you had to go another direction, but yet what you didn't realize is that maybe God was sparing you from a horrible accident that you were going to drive into on the freeway if you'd have went that way, or anything. Like.

I think we always just kind of have to have that awareness of And it's the same with me, like if I don't kill a certain deer, if I don't have a successful hunt, I have to you know, Like last year I went to Kansas, first year in my life I've ever hunted Kansas and didn't kill a buck ten days. As hard as I've ever hunted, never killed a deer didn't even have a shooter within shooting distance except one day and he came in on the wrong side of the tree, down wind and I didn't have

a shot. I mean, it was hard to accept, and I lost my cool time or two and you know, and I think God was like showing me, like, look, dude, it's not all going to be like you've had so much great success in your life, Like you're gonna have to learn to live with some failure at times.

while trips you up. Can you point to what that thing is?

I don't. But I would say that's the one thing that like really irritates me on certain days that you know, a deer gets you or a dough gets you, or you know, and man, that just drives me nuts because it's like, and I think there's certain clothing, fabrics, certain things that all contribute to that, like they hold scent differently, or you know, and it's something I want to dive deeper into as I get older, you know. And I've used a lot of different clothing and different you know,

like carbon I've tried ozone everything. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Again, one of the things that has probably helped me the most is going back to using like the black Widdow deal or when I start getting deer down wind to me now, I start spraying that deer urin in the air to just try to calm them down.

And that has helped me tremendously, and you'll see it in a lot of my videos that I do that, you know, It's really helped a lot because I don't think that like my scent is that bad, or like my because my practice is like anybody else is that truly takes it. You know. I'm washing the right way, I'm using the right stuff and keeping them clean and putting them in containers. It's just something And I don't know if it's it can be your breath, you know, nobody's ever told me I had bad breath, but I

don't know what it is could be. I think just your body gives off an odor to deer. We stink like we just stink. Humans just stink and reef to deer. Like you can literally put up a lay of gas can in the middle of the woods and they'll walk right by it and don't care about it. Like and we're worried about getting gas on our clothes. They don't care about that. They don't care about cigarettes smoke so much. I don't think there's just certain things that don't trigger them.

I mean, like the Wens will smoke their clothes, you know, literally stand in a fire pit of leaves and smoke themselves before they go hunting, like the Indians used to. So it's just I don't know, but it's just that's one thing that's probably really tripped me up a lot over the years. Sometimes I really get it right and I'm doing good, but then there's times that like it just seems like I can't get it right, you know, and it irritates me.

You know what I mean, like by any means. And there's good old rednecks out there that probably are using certain tactics that I'll never know about that it would

probably be game changers, you know. So whenever I have a chance to learn from somebody, especially somebody that's had some really good success that kill the mature deer or being successful at something could be anything that you're trying to accomplish, I feel like it deserves to listen, you know, And don't be so arrogant to the fact that you feel like you can't. Oh, I don't want to listen to that guy because I don't like them, you know, you still might pick up something you.

something from trapping or this or that. You know, and you start using that woodsmanship and I believe that's something as a whole in the hunting industry that we're really losing, is woodsmanship, especially in our younger hunters. Yeah, is that you know, sometimes it takes a while to be successful working for it, you know, especially in states like Ohio, we're in Kentucky, in places where baiting is a you know, huge way of deer hunting, or like Texas and things

like that. Like I think a lot of our younger generation is And I'm not saying that that's completely wrong, because you know, we need hunters and I'm not trying to pit and say that, but what I'm getting out is that, like I think it's harder for the younger generation that grows up hunting that way, like you know, hunting over a bait pile or something like that. They don't learn the art of scouting a rub line or a scrape line or a bedding area or why does this deer move from point A to point B on

certain days or like that's the fun part of hunting. Now, maybe as they get older, they'll get tired of hunting that way and they want to learn something different and go do it. But you know, I just you know, kind of got off on a little weird thing there, but I'm just saying, like, you know, I just feel like we all can learn. And I mean I've learned things about deer watching how they react to feeders or bait piles, or I've learned things about deer that way.

So I think you can learn something from every situation and use it to your advantage somewhere along the line.

how do you define hard work? Like what does hard work for deer hunting actually look like in your practice?

as I did thinking about deer or strategizing, I would glow. Yeah, I would break in the room.

And that's it's just really how it is. And I mean it's it's a it can be a detriment to a degree, you know, Like I remember when my kids were little, we'd go on camping trips. You know, we had campers, and you know, I get off work from logging for the week or whatever, and we take the camper and go somewhere like West Branch Reservoir in Ohio and go camping. And I'd always take the deer hunting

magazines with me, you know. And my wife finally one day said, I want you to be present when you're with us, like it's not And so I had to. I had to, and I find myself as I get older, I'm way easier to do that now, but when I was younger, I had to really catch myself because I was taking precious time away. And one thing I do think I did too, was like, you know, because I've always filmed since my kids were little, and I think

that puts some pressure on my kids. It maybe has somewhat pushed them away from hunting, you know, maybe not so much pushed them away, but it's more of a thing of like I don't know how you'd say, like maybe being in the shadow of somebody that has a reputation, you know, like being the like say, for instance, like Hank Williams Junior always felt like he had something to

prove because Hank Williams was his daddy. Well, and I don't know if that could maybe relate to some of my boys, Like, you know, they like to hunt and you know, but they don't care about filming. They don't want that camera around for the most part. And that's fine, Like I don't care, Like I just want them to hunt and enjoy, you know, being out there. But I'm just saying, like we can take it too far. We can.

And and so I guess when I when you ask, like how much, like what does work considered to me? But like I probably work harder than the average guy in general, just at what I do daily through my life, you know. And I have a lot of these people that say, man, boy, you're so lucky. You know, you have a deer hunting show. You got a nice truck, and you own land and you know, nice house, and man, it must be nice to be that lucky all the time.

And you know. And the thing is is it's like, you know, I tell them, like, yeah, well, you know, the funny thing is the harder I work, the luckier I get, you know, And the harder I work at killing big deer, the more I kill. Like it's just I don't know, So I guess it's just priorities, you know what your goals are, and I think the biggest

thing is hunt smarter, not harder. Working to put yourself in those positions, you have to work hard, But when it comes to the actual hunting side of things and being in that deer's territory, you have to be smart how you hunt. And typically if you know, if you've done your homework and you know enough about that deer, you should kill him the first or second, third sit.

morning or evening. You know, there's there's all these different variables that might be going through your mind. What does that look like for you, Like the d I'm very curious. Yeah, tell me about.

so I had to go with my gut. I had to go with I had to dig deep and be like, Okay, this is what I've seen that he's done in the past. This is what little bit of information I have from the cameras this year. Because I can't be there to scout, I can't be there to watch a lot of like

where he was at, I couldn't even see. You couldn't see from a road if you wanted to, you know, you couldn't glass, you couldn't And so I had to take all those little bits of information and try to put them in a I don't know how you say it, just a package and then like break it down like Okay,

let's try this, and then feel good about it. So sometimes it literally my decision sometimes isn't even made until I start the walk in, Like it's been that crazy at times, and sometimes I've changed my walk in and went somewhere else. It can be a torture in a man's brain like myselves.

situation depends on where you're hunting. You know, like if you're hunting extremely pressured deer on public land, well then you know you're you're hunting deer that are going to move very minimal in daylight, so you need to be as close to them as you can possibly be when they do move in daylight? Does that mean you get in there an hour before dark in the morning or before daylight? I mean, and you sit there all day waiting for that fifteen minutes of daylight at the end

of the day. That's what you got to do, even though you know he's going to enter the bedding area from another way. But you know there's no other way to get in there except for the cover of darkness from the back door in the morning and wait for him to come out that side in the evening. Stuff like that. That's what separates the killers from the hunters.

Extreme extremism. You know, there's just so many little things that I don't know you could, I don't know, just a lot of that, but deer have I consider it to be three basic needs. They need to eat, they need to drink, and they need to have sex. That's breeding is those are the three things are a lot like a man, you know, I mean, just seriously, like to break it down, like those three things next to

having to breathe, there are their life. And a lot of people don't put enough emphasis on the water situation, especially in early season, but you know, that's really kind of how you need to break it down and like you take those things and then you start thinking about, Okay, well, if this deer moves tonight, he probably got a drink there. If I'm sitting here, I can catch him going to that food plot or that clover field or Old Man Johnson's cornfield or no, he's it's this time of year.

He's going to be looking for Nelly's over there and Don's hayfield. You know, there's just simple things like I shouldn't say they're simple, but you know October green, you know, November grain, you know November December grain. You know, except for certain days and they want to hit green, and like it's just really hard to put it at any

one thing. You just kind of have to know that particular situation and ask yourself those questions, you know, And sometimes I truly believe less's best, like you know, putting the I guess least amount of a lot of effort, but a least amount of thinking about deer. Like you know,

going in to try to manage a property. Sometimes you can take a property that's always had big bucks on it for years and then you finally get a crack at it, and you think you're going to go in there and you know, put all these food plots in and do all this crazy management, and all you do is drive the deer out, right, So, like I think sometimes you just every situation.

mental toughness. You know, can you can you speak to how mental toughness factors into your hunting success, if at all? And then also like how do you define mental toughness, Like what does that look like for you?

mental game. But then there can be times, and I'll be honest, like there's times, especially late season, like when if you're somewhere trying to grind it out in December, after a lot of the gun seasons and archery's been in for a long time, and you're trying to get the dupe on a big you know, a mature deer, not just a deer, but a mature deer, and deer movement in general is at a very low, like the

rut's over. Could be a sprinkling of second rut you know here and there, but you're generally hunting deer that are just scared to death. You know. That is a grind on a person's mind. Yeah, Like because you're not seeing a lot of movement. I mean even I can struggle at those points, especially if you don't have the info you really need, like and you're not on something particular, like if you're like last year, I went to Iowa for a little bit for just a couple of days

in December, right after Christmas. I'm like, I'm gonna try it. I need to try to get this tag. Fil went to a spot, didn't you know, had a little bit of intel, but not much. And the deer just they

weren't moving. They were scared to death. Everything made a noise everywhere you stepped, every like they could hear you, like they could be You'd take three steps into the area to try to get into a seater ticket or somewhere to go, and the whole hillside would bust out with deer and you're like, like, you know what I mean, Like those days can really eat at you. Yeah, and so, but then again, I think there's times where you just finally say, you know what, I've had enough. I've had

a good season. It's time to pack up and go home. Like, you know, I don't know, Like it's just I think you can't take the fun out of it. And if it starts getting to a point where it's making you moody and angry, and you know, I think that's when we got to check ourselves.

a positive mindset. You know, eat good, try to you know, don't bet in tons of sugar and stuff that's going to make you feel like crap through the day, you know, because like that gives you those increases of dopamine, but then big lutdowns and you don't handle mood swings right, you know. I being comfortable when you're hunting in those situations like if you're cold, you're you're not gonna last like you need to be. You need to do everything for yourself, I guess self care in a sense to

be able to withstand those boring moments. But you always have to have in the back of your mind that it could happen at any second, because that's a lot of times how it happens. I mean, you can just be sitting there through the most bored five days of your life and then within fifteen seconds it's over and you just shot at one to eighty or you weren't.

old school and they're maybe hunting some somewhat differently. But you comparing yourself like that and trying to live that life doesn't help your life. Yeah, you know, and like I it's really disheartening at times when I'm at doing seminars or I'm at a sporting good show, you know, and some fifteen or you know, fourteen year old kid comes up to me and he's been like and I've said this on numerous podcasts, and he starts showing me pictures.

You know, I passed this three and a half year old one forty five or one fifty up, you know, and I was hunting this deer, but I didn't get him. I'm thinking, dude, you know, and I tell him, like, man, when I was your age, that one fifteen that you passed back a couple of pictures earlier that was with

that one twenty five would have been dead. Yeah, And you would have been just killed some stuff, dude, Yeah, kill it, just kill some stuff, have fun, like learn to kill like and you know, taste the blood, like the success, the fun of it, the you know, the big stuff, the mature that'll come later. Like it isn't just about killing really big dear, you know. And I mean when I killed my first booner, I had already killed probably I don't know, ten or twelve decent bucks

with my bow. So I was ready to take a step. Yeah you know what I'm saying, like another step, and then that just elevated that step, you know. And so I think that's something that you know, people need to be aware of too.

And I know, for I'm not going to sit here and say, oh, I'm the greatest deer hunter in the world, but there is no doubt about it that trail cameras have changed the game, even for myself, Like I've used that information to no end, you know. So I know, I know I wouldn't have as many big deer on the wall as I do if it wasn't for trail cameras.

bow or your high end whatever. What would be the one thing that you would spend the extra premium dollars to keep that one high end thing? And why.

But the trail camera for me, I guess is hard because it allows me to scout so many different deer in so many areas in so many states at once. Yeah, that would be very hard for me to give up because of the end, because it helps your hunts. It helps you not waste time, and I hate wasting time to where like when you first get to a place years ago, you know you'd have to start scouting, you'd watch from afar, and I still do that at times, like you know, so giving up a trail camera would

be tough. And I know some people may say, oh, that's a cop out, but it just is. It'd be tough because I've gotten so used to being able to put information together. Like you still got to know where those big deer are. You still have to kill them. You still have to. It's not like I watched my phone and be like, oh, you just walked past camera number two. I'm gonna run a camera number three and sit there. You know, I don't do that, Like it's

I don't use them for that. I love taking information that I've learned from a certain deer and how they do things and when they do it, and from weather patterns to just I love that. I enjoy that part of it. I love watching them come into a food plot. I play in it. I mock scrapes I've made, watching

them work those scrapes. I love messing with deer that are camera shy and hiding cameras from them and getting them from a different angle, and they think they got away with it and they didn't, you know, and I got them so like it's I don't know, I just really love trail cameras.

what do you think that they would call out? Is your greatest strength as a deer hunter?

Back when I started with the juries, and they paid us a little bit of money, and so that was a win for me, like I didn't have to take for my family, and so to me it was a job like because for one, you know, Mark and Terry were counting on me to kill some deer and on film,

and I took that serious. And so I think where I've struggled is whenever I'm out of state, and especially now that I have my own show and I have sponsors and a reputation, it's like I'm so focused on trying to be successful that sometimes I can make it not fun for myself. Like I was saying, that's where I said, I have the experience like let's keep the fun in it. And sometimes I can take the fun out of it, you know, but at the time I'm really having fun. I think, you know, I'm just missing

out on some of the things that of visiting. And but I have gotten better. But definitely that could be something.

and you can put one idea on that billboard that you would want these folks to be able to read. You're like your final parting words of most important deer hunting advice. What would that be?

are edited and put up right about velvet time. But you know, so a lot of my info day to day grinding info is on our social channels. You know. I know if I was to push my YouTube channel more and put more content on it, it would grow more. But I really didn't start my YouTube channel for money, you know, to where some people really focus on that for the income. You know, that's that's really not what I did it for. But it would be nice to

see that channel grow more. But you know, but if people do subscribe to it, whenever we do upload stuff, they get a notice.

It's gonna be a good one. We're gonna get another really interesting look into the mind of one of the best white tail hunters out there, and I think you'll enjoy it, so thanks for being here. I appreciate you. Until next time, stay wired to Hunt.