Ep. 793: How Public Land Whitetail Killer, Greg Litzinger, Learned that Gravity is Undefeated

Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the Whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go Farther, stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you by First Light. I'm your guest host, Tony Peterson, and today I'm joined by my good buddy Greg Litzinger to talk about the tree standfall that nearly took him out of the game forever. All right, folks, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you by First Light. Before I tell you where Mark is, I need to remind everyone that he and I have

Uh, it's still all right, he's I guess it's gonna put him in a it's gonna put him in a facility to help him work through his injuries there.

Originally I'm gonna do surgery, but they kind of pulled back on that. Donna let the kneecap hopefully heal.

They're going to revisit it, I guess in a week or two and make sure it's healing correctly.

So he's he's seventy five, right, Yeah, and he's out night fishing for large mouths.

Yeah whatever, pointing in the fresh water like nothing, nothing crazy, just crappy large amouth you know.

So seventy five years old, he's out night fishing, and what happens.

He's putting his boat. I think he's putting this boat in or out. I got the full like grip, but the boats at the boat ramp and you know, you got that angle what goes down.

Into the water. I'm assuming it's dark out. He had a headlamp on, you know, and I.

Guess he slipped off that little apron and I'm assuming his right.

Ankle went down.

He broke bones in that foot and they come crashing down on his left knee, shattered his cracked his kneecap, and then in the middle of falling he I guess come down and ends up hitting something in his two knuckles. So he's got like this giant bruise on his hand, you know.

And like a typical mail he just drives his boat home because he lives in the water.

Goes up like it's normal, like if nothing goes to bed. He wakes up the next morning, you can't move, say calls me. When my sister calls me and say, hey, Dad, saw down. He's in a lot of paint. Do you have any pain meds? Because you know, I'm dealing with a wrist injury. I was like, what happened? So I called my dad. He's nay, yeah, and he sent me a picture of his knee and I'm like, dude, callin abelms Man like you can't move foot, sloot up, his knee.

Sloot up, and like his bedrooms.

It's a single story house, but his bedrooms like downstairs there it's like three steps, but they're big steps.

I'm like, dude, callin Abilens. You don't have to get people to get out of it.

So it took like three dudes and get my dad out of his bedroom and we get to the emergency room and we got there and eight fifty at night Tommy got admitted to a room. It was eight o'clock the following night. So I was up with him deally with you know, because he's not a slate. They're given like pain pills. So he's like out and then he's like awake, and then he had like a breathing episode because he has m phaseema.

So it was like a scary moment there. But I was like the whole time, I'm like, man, Dad, you were not twenty five. You can't be doing this.

So let's just I gotta I gotta frame this up. Your seventy five year old dad goes night fishing, falls off of a dock working with a boat. Somehow whatever breaks bones in his foot, breaks his knee cap obviously messes up his hand, probably trying to catch himself falling, does the totally irresponsible thing and goes home and just falls asleep, wakes up in excruciating pain because he's totally busted up, and then you finally get him in to the er and it's a twenty four hour wait.

Yeah. Yeah, it's like one Nearth was like they haven't seen anything like this.

Like we go in and they check you in, they give him a wheelchair and they're like they have a new ergo friend. The wheelchair this trash. If my dad's like decrepit, he's all sitting on this thing. You can't lean it back, you can't put your feet up. So it's like my feet or underneath his feet because he's got he's six to one, you know, so it's like this is not designed for big people, you know. So it's like I have my feet underneath his feet to

It was just a nightmare, man.

Like the waiting room was like standing room and it was like a concert and it was like So we're like sitting in the hallway and the lady's like, you can't be here. I'm like, there's nowhere to go. What do you want me to do? Like I've been in a hospital, Yeah, not for not. I've been in the hospital before and instrument and it's been like in and out pretty good. So I'm like, we'll go there and be in and out. We're all definitely not in and out.

And so your sister calls you for some help because you're you're sitting there with a brace on your wrist. Uh, clearly, And we haven't even got to your the actual reason we're talking to you here. Yeah, Uh, you got you truck? Have you do you? Have you ever done any history on your bloodline? Are you just an injury prone people? What's going on here?

Uh? I'm just dumb.

Most my injuries are reminds to Pitty like snowboarding, like hitting jumps way too big, jumping off like fifty foot cliffs and stuff like driving them till it was like ride up, like n I can do. I'm from the East coast, from New Jersey. We don't have fifty foot cliffs. I should not be jumping off there. But it's like, well, it's.

Powder, how hard can it hurt? That hurts pretty good?

You know?

So what happened to your wrist?

I thought work tour ligament, my sl ligament of anybody that's a medical background, a small little ligament and the scaffoid and the lunate tour that they did a surgery to put them back together, and infection on my hand had to pull the pins out and the surgery didn't take.

So now I'm in line to get another surgery next month.

So you're bumping up offul close to deer season here, dude.

I'm at the mouth tapping up. I might be ready by end of October. Middle of October. There's a few a couple of bones together on my wrist, so the heel time is going to be like I had to cut March twenty fifth, and I try and shoot.

My ball's a little bow.

And I could see you on that little bit of pressure one night and it's just a little ten town ree curve. I'm like, so I'll probably mouth taphim up or cross camp. I know, my luck, my luck, I'll kill the biggest deer in the world in my life with the crossbon and I was saying I'd rather not, I'd rather I if I got to do gun, I'll probably do mussload. Like my dad's got a few hawkins

It's very like mm hmm. But the.

Yeah iron sights maybe six yard match by like two hundred yards. I just do know personally, I'd take no joy in that it doesn't. The last deer, I'm kill him with the muscloader. I was actually angry at the deer because I was like, way in the back, I got drag sight, like by myself at night, and I was like angry at the deer. There's no like, it's still awesome. It's a big you know, like the eight pointer, and I just stood a wrap in the woods. So

It's it's just it's weird.

I don't it's in here like I and I sounded like an elite is saying that.

But it's like for me, like gun hunting, I just don't. This doesn't go for me, hun dude.

I deal with this with the a lot of the people at Meat Eater quite a bit where you know, I mean there's a lot of gun hunters there, and you know, rifle hunting, especially out west is like a really big thing obviously with a lot of these guys. And I'm like, I just like, doesn't interest me. I don't know why, you know. And it's when you when you say you'd go to a mouse stab over a crossbow, it's a hard thing to explain, like I just did.

Yeah, and like I say, my opinion with the crossfload is like anything exhausts all options, like there's still things that I can do, Like for me personally, like the crossfell is like I've exhausted this, this and this, Like if this is all I got to get in the woods, then okay, but I really gave it everything.

I had and then okay, now I'm amazing.

Like if you got to rent the crossbow and nothing against crossbow, and this is going to run some feathers. But it's just not if I can put up on a rent a gun, it's a cross gun man, Like my buddy's got a raven and I can shoot eighty.

Er groups like this off a rest like it's nothing.

I'm like, that's it's just different, man.

It's not the same man. It's not the same.

No, And it's it's weird too, because if you think, like, okay, go out, scout your ass off on public, find a big deer, he walks by a twenty yards, your plan comes together, and you thump him with a crossbow, It's not going to be the same thing. It's kind of like, you know, go out, somebody goes out and has a target book, right, and he and he comes walking through finally, and you've been thinking about this deer for the year, five years or whatever, and he's busted off. Aside, like

Yeah. I get a spot renover Bridge here in Delaware, a little piece of private my buddy has I'm allowed to hunt and there's a really.

Nice feeder on it. It's like Minela.

I would go with the crossbow, shoot twitter plants deer.

My biggest one hamper will be the crossbell.

And I'm like me personally, I don't know if I could throw on the wall, it would have to be your roomount and be like in the basement or something.

There's just be no I just that's just my own personal Ta.

Dude, we draw weird line man, And I mean I was last year. I've talked about this on here a few times. I did. I picked up the muzzleloader for the first time in quite a while, and I went and hunted some of this public land in western Minnesota that I've been pheasant hunting a lot. Because I'm just kind of falling in love with a cattail sluze and trying to kill a deer out of there and I had I didn't I didn't kill when I had a blast got close and I was talking to my boss

It's like like Pa and they had that flip moth the muzzle loader.

Yeah, dude, Like I think that's pretty cool.

Like there's a you know, they're not exactly one hundred yard shooting machines like the the guys that do it, you know, they're it requires a little skill, a little effort like a bell almost, And like my dad uses the Hawkins, no scopes anything. I'm like, if I have to gun hunt this year, I'll probably use a Hawkin. You know, open sites give me sixty five yards.

Maybe it's probably a far shot. You know, I basically just be bell hunting because I'm going the thick of stuff possible. It's like a single shot. Just it's actually probably harder than bell hunton.

Really well you know, I mean so again, that's that's what we had here in Minnesota for a long time. It was all open sites, and so it was like I ended up muzzle or hunting like I bohunt, you know, like because you're most of your shots are within forty yards and that that was a lot of fun. It was because you're like, I have like a tiny advantage, right, I guess not like a tiny advantage, but you definitely

Yeah, it's just the guys. We're at the PA tax and I'll talk to people. I know you're going to do a cross bell and I'm like.

And like, I mean those there's a point where I like, maybe I could do it, but talking to pill.

Say, I just I just can't do it.

You have the one guy and was like, you'll kill a big steer line with that, and you'll never kill anything bigger. And it's like he got me thinking, I'm like, dude's right, man, Like I will never I'll kill him. I'll kill Booner in New Jersey with across with a cross and be like it's like I would never live that down, like from the outside world and me inside, you know, it would be like the biggest deer I've ever killed.

I can't put on the wall that I'd be ashamed of it. Personally, like it if.

It makes you feel better. Our mutual friend Clint over there at truth from the stand, he's probably gonna get a Brazilian jiu jitsu injury here eventually, so he'll probably he'll probably be hunting with a crossbow eventually.

I would say he's pushing. He thinks he's twenty, you know, I know he's like my dad.

You know, he's getting after it pretty hard.

Uh. This is.

The reason that I wanted to talk to you today is I was looking for somebody who's had a real tree stand fall and a real like somebody who hunting has taken them out of the game. You know, we had Will Jimeno on, you know, the nine to eleven Survivors, Zach got a kidney transplant, Tim's dealing with his wife, Who's who's got whose cancer diagnosis twice. So I was like, this is just those are outside things that took people

Yeah, life changing. I guess put it lightly.

I guess so let's can we start in the hours before the injury. Yeah, just just put us there, man, so you can.

See see the deer with the all the stuff on the bottom.

Yep.

Yeah, that was my first you know, big deer. Uh, I remember killed and the following year and now the buck was there. It was watching them all summer. So I went in there and I was trump this tree and get to stand set and all it do like a whole practice dry run.

And it was right for a hurricane.

What time of the year is this?

This is all late August or early August. It was right for a hot season, but hurricane was coming all my sense and we watched away.

So I went in there pretty aggressive because I like getting close to where they sleep.

So I never used the harness ever.

And that February I bought like Alignment's belt and I would use it in the backyard, use it sit and stands all stuff.

I'm like, this is kind of nice. So I go up to that. It was a maulberry tree. I think it's a mall very some type of berry tree.

And I got the two hang on sticks lowermo six, I got to stand setting, like, man, this is great.

And I've got like the harness on. You know, I'm leaning back, and uh, I took it off. And I don't even know why I took it.

Off, but pretty much I just I guess I zaked on a shoes.

Agg and.

Dropping a rock and uh so did you have a lineman's beltown?

Yeah, I had it all that, but I didn't have it on. I had it on me, but I didn't have it on. Also used to using it and all that stuff. But it's like, you know, and uh got used to it, got comftable with it, and then I thought it was on, and you know where I went.

And so hold on, hold on, you thought you had it on your I mean you're just kind of like thinking in your head, you're going through the motions and doing deer chores, and you just you kind of just forget yep. So people are going to listen to that and they're going to think that's crazy. But man, I've had just a few experiences where I'm pretty religious about tree stands safety, and I have been for a long time.

Yeah, I I mean I worked on them roller coasters, you know, high runs, roller coasters, big Ferris wheels. I never harnessed up. I put the harness on. But I climbed trees as a kid like I was. I should have been an armwork, Like I'm not afraid to hide. I'm not afraid of doing all that stuff. So climbing trees.

I never hardened stuff, you know, even everything I did.

You know, one leg around in three one a round tree, I could, like I can throw a hang on and everything on, like no problem. But I used that lineman's belt just a few times, and I mean I got used to it in a handful of times. Being there, I'm like, man, this is way easier hanging that stand. So muscle memory kicks in and it's like, oh it's there, and it wasn't. And I'll tell you one thing. Everybody says, I'm going to be able.

To grab a branch by fall, bull get you fall, Like in my head, I still remember that day. It's like I'm just grab this branch, Like it's like the branch is right there. You're not grabbing the branch, man, Like you fall and there's nothing you do about it. And I was very very lucky, you know.

I fell in between like it's like a trade that was all like it hit my lightning or blew over. It was all like kind of like shredded up and I literally scraped the back of my head, you know, it was like three into one or another. I probably would have been entailed in the back of my head. And the irony is no one knew where I was, because not many people know where I hunt, you know, So it's like, but I, uh, I get a little head of myself here.

But for me, this is very easy to understand and relate to. You are the kind of person who has no fear of heights, so you're very comfortable up there, but you decide to be safe use use a lineman's belt, and you get used to that, and honestly, like what you said, it's it's kind of a revelation when you first start using them because you have hands free. I mean, it's just it's so much easier to work in the tree,

Yeah, And they said that.

To this day, I think about that. It's like what why, Like why, I mean, there is no why you know, it's just a human error in a rush because I wanted to get a bunch of spots done that day for the hurricane. So I was kind of, you know, making cutting corners a little bit. Maybe maybe I should have slowed down, but I didn't.

Well, I mean, dude, it happens. Yeah, I mean it happened. So you're you're how high were you?

I would say fifteen yeah, my feet, my feet might have been like fifteen around that range.

You have fifteen seventeen feet.

Yeah, pretty average? Yeah, nothing crazy, and you you lean back, you fall, like you said everybody. I can remember when I first started bow hunting, we had those. They were like a waste safety harness that you know, went around your waist and they're built out of like the seatbelt material. Yep, big big rope or you know, like a big lineup

Uh.

But I can remember the guys that kind of his hunting buddies at that time, we're all like, you're wearing a harness, like and they said the same thing, like, oh, man, if I fall, I'm just going to be grabbing everything.

And it's like unless unless you're the thing you might be grabbing is if you're falling into the limb and maybe you get a chance, but if.

You're like if you have to reach out, like you know, I've skyn eyed before. He falls pretty fast.

Yeah, if there's nothing, if your feet are on the ground, like, you're moving pretty good, and you better have some you know, Bruce laites at reflexes, man, But the average person that's not no.

And I mean the other lesson there too, you know, like with your old man and his injury. You know, they say one of the most important things about keeping healthy as you age, get to that is grip strength, because if you start to fall in the shower, whatever, on the boat, landing like little stupid stuff, if you can't get a hold of something and hold yourself up, you know, or rest your fall, you're in trouble. But

You are just huge. I'm not sure.

Maybe if you're a gymnast and you're used to something like you know that, but the average person now you're you're just you're pistoning in the windo at that dude.

I think the Venn diagram of gymnasts and bow hunters is it barely touches. I don't think we got a lot of gymnasts in our in our ranks, Yeah, definitely not. So you you fall out, you knew, you probably knew you screwed up instantly when you lean back, you hit. You hit the bottom there, and you're in a tree that has basically a bunch of wooden daggers sticking up because of the lightning strike. You get lucky there. What's

I remember falling, you know, and like trying to catch that, and I don't know, it's just my brain on replay when I came to, you know, Meanwhile, like I'm on the edge of water, Like I'm close to the water, so the place floods out. So if the hurring Thane's coming, where I am is gonna be underwater.

So when I come to, I can't move, can't move my arms, can't move anything. I'm just in the dirt, breathing real heavy. And yeah, it's just.

How old were you here?

Thirty thirty four? Okay, thirty five, no kids yet? No wife, no kids, It's just me.

But I I couldn't move And did you think you were paralyzed?

Oh yeah. I was like, well this is it.

And I'm like, and I tell you, this is the weird how my brain works. I lived a pretty cool life, done a lot of cool stuff. It wasn't like I was like regretful that I couldn't move. My biggest at the time was like spiders and snakes.

I'm not gonna be able to have Spider's gonna crawl with me and snakes. There's nothing I can go about it. That's all. Like I'm gonna drown. I was like, and then Spider's next to a crawl on me. Not then I can't move or anything. I'm like, I didn't was like this is this is how it ends. I'm like, oh, I was like, okay, I can deal with this. But I'm like, I'm gonna drown, so horrible death probably, or I'm gonna just have have anxiety and panic attack because spiders.

And snake is gonna be all over me, and you know, and then like I don't know how long I was out knocked out or how long I was having these thoughts in my brain.

And then you know, it was like, what was that? Like I thought something might be like on me, like, but my body started like coming to coming.

Around, like you did a hard reset there, buddy.

Exactly what the guy at the hospital said.

He goes, your body went in the preservation move when you felt gonna preserve all internal organ to stay alive.

Everything else gets struck down.

And I was like, that makes sense because you you hit head pretty good and then that impact, but it basically shattered. You can see a shatteredness to be a plateau, just like my dad's left swallowed me.

I was pretty much in the same same boat.

But uh, I remember being able to move, and thank goodness, my phone was in my bag on the ground, because if I would have probably had my phone in my pocket when I fell, I might have broke it.

And so it was lucky I had the phone in the bag. And I remember crawling to the bag because I couldn't move my legs. My legs still weren't moving, so I'm crawling to the bag. Tell my buddy Kenny, tell him what happened. And I had to tell him where I was, and it was very painful because he's known to slide it in your spots.

When you're not around classic Kenny.

Yeah.

So Kenny and my buddy Tony and my buddy Chair is at MT They brought a deer carn out.

Jerry came out by that kind of brace.

But I remember trying to pull myself off up on these trees and letting go and just fall him right back down, like.

I thought my legs were done, and uh, it took me to the hospital. Oh and I remember being being in the hospital and the band like I had my good pants on and they wanted to cut.

My pants and I was like, don't cut my pants. In my favorite pants and were like dickeys that were like I had them for like ten years. I was like like I could take them off. This is just let me take them off. And they're like, well, cut them. I'm like, don't cut my pants. I was like I'm already, man, Like my legs were working, but weren't working at the time.

It was a weird, weird thing. And the hurricane hit. I was in the hospital, you know, for plose for two weeks.

So we got a back up here. Hold on, all right, you're glassing over a lot of stuff. I want to get into buddy. First off, the just let's just acknowledge the power of a phobia. You've fallen out of a tree stand You're like, I'm I'm now paralyzed. This is this is your new reality. And two of your three biggest fears at the moment are snakes and spiders crawling

Yeah. Yeah.

And I was like, you don't seem like the horror movies are sitting there and like, right, somebody that is like a spider or something's coming across their face. That's all I kept thinking about. And I'm like, and why I have no idea, I pick up spiders and snakes. But that's what I reverted to in that moment. Why I have no idea, Like I'm not a fan of spiders snakes, I'll pick them up like snakes and house I'll take them out. You know, I'm a lot better

But that's me.

Yeah, that.

Moment, that that's all I can tell because where as I hunt there a lot, there's some big wolf looking type spiders, and it's like I just know what's there. I see black snakes and see water snakes all the time, and I'm like, God, this is it, Like this is what's going to happen.

Or I drowned, So I'm like, but the drowning was like number three.

On the snakes and spiders, like their drowning was coming at the bottom, which I don't know why that was.

That should have been number one, but it wasn't.

Dude. It's like, uh, I'm sure they've studied this or something, but it's almost like you you went back like in the time, Like no, no, it's like yeah, like I mean it's almost like you went back to like our primal roots where you're like, okay, here's here's the actual dangers I'm facing. It's nature, you know, like a wild Okay, so you get ahold of spots stealing Kenny, Yeah, and you're like you gotta come get me, but don't take my spot, like this is one of my favorite spots

Yeah. My buddy, Jerry's not a hunter, he's an AMT. I called him.

Him and his girlfriend came out and they had their bags like they they they're they're ready to him all the time for dis answers. So they came out because he was like, I kept trying to move. It's like, don't move, just stop trying to move. But I'm a man and like my arms work, and I'm like I need to get my legs to move. I'm going to keep pull myself off.

On his branch and fall up. And it's like you know, and uh, we're they put me on a neck brace.

They take all my vinyls and they put me on a deer cart and Tony has a picture of me neck brace on getting drug getting drug out with a deer cart, and every now and again he'll be like, you know, I gotta picture you at a deer cart in the neck brace and I'm like, I'm sure you do, buddy, I'm sure you do.

We're your emt friend. There were you Was he worried about exacerbating this injury or were they just like, we got to get you out and you.

Gotta get stabilized. Yeah. I had to get me to the road.

There's a couple hundred yards to the room where the ambulance was waiting, because he was like, the people are gonna have a hard time coming back here with the stretcher.

We're gonna make it.

Worse, so we'll just He checked me out and he goes, okay, we're there's no internal bleeding, like your vinyls were good.

Uh, your legs worry about that at another time.

But your your main vitals are good, blood pressure was good, all that stuff.

Man gave the go ahead for the deer car. It was like.

It was like not only just embarrassing, is I Kenny is there and I know he likes to talk at the bar and tell people what happened, and like, I'm gonna lose my spot. Tony's taking picture of me on the deer car, you know what it's like. And I call him the favor, you know, like if someone comes out you get you know, friends will do anything for you, but there's like certain favors, like when that happened, you know, like use certain favors up.

So now I'm like, I'm like, I'm like I'm ero for three right now, you know. So it's like whenever these kids, these guys call, whenever, I'm like, i have to drop whatever I'm doing and go. So it's like all that this is some I'm thinking, not about like being paralyzed, I can't move with my legs.

I'm like, I have a lot of people favors. I'm not gonna be at this year. And it's like I'm on a deer car, you know what I'm saying. All these things were in my head instead of like what I should have been focused on, you know, and I just I just bought this house I'm in. You know, I also have an all this. You know, I wasn't worried about any of it. I was just worried about owing people favors which you got to pay back, you know.

Of course, do you do you think you were sort of in I mean, obviously you're probably in shock, right. Do you think that you were just you kind of just maybe your brain was like not letting you fully grasp the situation, distracting you a little bit. Or do you think you just didn't think it was that bad?

I I take I've talked to you know.

I went to seen a therapist you know about this because I was not upset that my legs weren't necessarily working like it didn't never, it wasn't important. Maybe because you know, I lived a pretty good aggressive I kind of did whatever I wanted to do, you know, I got I got to a point life when it second, it's a lot of cool shit, man, like I'm I'm okay, this is where it is, and and he just says people just handle trauma differently.

But I never got upset that my legs weren't I couldn't lift my legs up the whole time. They even like in the hospital after surgery.

And coming home i'd be standing up, I'll just fall to the ground, you know, like I couldn't do anything.

My legs just stop working. And they could never figure out why that happened. They don't know, I've got scams and all that other stuff. They could never figure out why signals from my brain.

I probably got some type of trauma in the brain, you know that might come back to bite me when I'm seventy, you know.

But they so they never figured out where the disconnect was there.

No, because it's not never consistent enough, like it would happen and then I'd be good and it won't have any issues, any problem. So it's like it's hard I fix things for a living. It's hard to fix something if it was not acting up when you're there, Like hey, the machines bobbly.

You go there and it's fine. They're like, I don't even know where to begin to look like they did EKGs. And also everything was fine. So I haven't had any episodes. Uh, probably three months after the injury was probably like the last one.

All right, So your buddies get you out on the deer cart to the ambulance. What's the uh? Are you in pain or are you just going with the flow?

At that point, mixture both traveling.

Maybe like a little bit of fear, like since aware that your feet their legs aren't working very well.

You know.

Yeah, I didn't want to like focus on you know, like, hey, I can't move. I'm trying to like focus on trying to maintain because I've had a lot of injuries before that, you know, snowboarding and mountain biking, so like, I know, like the whole injury game where you can't really change what happened.

All you gotta do is just keep looking.

You know, what you do have, what you not necessarily what you don't have, right, I mean, you can't go back up the tree and do it all.

No, exactly, And the any time I was really truly in pain, I remember being in the hospital and they tried to straighten my leg for some reason, I don't know, Like they literally trying to straighten the leg that's grenated, like I had like a small little piece of bone sticking out on one side of the skin, like it

Maybe.

So in that moment, you were actually kind of relieved by the pain because in your brain you're like, okay, you don't get this.

Yeah, yeah, they were moving it like nothing.

It's like almost numb, like I can feel like I can feel people touching me, but I couldn't feel like like there was no pain until that that lady were really torqued.

On my leg. There. It was like, all right, cool, I'm a I'm a lot better than I thought I was.

All right, So you get you get in there, do you think I mean, I I suppose when they when you come in like that, they have to assess you for everything, and probably their main concern is your spine and just figuring out what's or you know, your brain whatever, figuring that out. And then they start assessing the you know, the the injuries that maybe aren't going to kill you, like your knee, but are gonna gonna be a real issue.

U do they?

So you you get in there, they they do. They keep you conscious like so they can go through your injuries.

Yeah, else else in and out. They're giving me some drugs. I don't know what they were giving me. What I would was it was just knocked me out. I mean, it's putting me right out. And then uh, I don't remember getting a wheel to surgery. But like it was this happened during a hurricane, so like there's a massive hurricane going on as I'm.

In the hospital.

So the MRI there and got cat scanned, they did all that stuff. They said, I had a big scar, you know, a big thing in the back of my head.

They're worried about, they said, the spine in the brain. Making sure all that was working.

But as far as like the the knee injury, I don't I don't remember getting wheeled to surgery or like anything like or being signing papers to get the surgery done.

Like it was just like it needed to be done. I was probably out and they're like, well, he's not he's not on that right. Yeah, I said, it's doing a hurricane.

Like no one was out there in the hospital after hours, So it's like after me eight pm, it's on my own and like my house flooded.

We lost power to my house for like two days. Like I had friends coming here trying to get myself pumps working my basement. I'm getting flooded. You know.

It was just like it's a dude, they were just racking up the favors. Huh yeah.

Yeah.

So do you know do you know if the spot you fell flooded in that hurricane.

It'll it'll flood under a high tide.

Oh really so not only so you would have been underwater there eventually if you couldn't have got a yeah, under high.

Tide, I probably be damn close, really like right close. Maybe not drowning, but you know, damn close to it.

Well, I mean getting your arms back would have helped. But yeah, that would be uh yeah right right that that's like how they used to uh you know, they used to like shackle somebody low tide, you know, and then let the tide roll back in and you got to think about that rising water for six hours or however long.

Yeah, that's uh, it's weird.

Like I said, to go to physical therapy and like, uh see a specialists and all that stuff, and the one guy he was like, you don't see him bothered by this? I was like, was I get bothered by? I can't change what happened. I can't get mad myself. I can't like regrets one of those like emotions. It's just waste that you're just regretting what. Don't get yourself angry? And I already had enough.

It's just going on. Uh huh. So I was just trying to.

Save stay as positive as I could, you know, because literally almost lost his house.

I bought it, you know, in June.

This happened in August, so I pretty much wiped out everything I had yo and then like I was going to work for six months, Like disability don't pay crap. Anybody's been disabled for a long time. Four hundred hours a week is nothing. I mean when it used to making eight or nine. Four hundred is nothing, right, you know. So the financial stream.

Was tough, the emotional pull, but I will say one thing and or is it? What theer is it? That's this one right there.

So I went to the doctors and had brace crutches, and the doctor was like, I kept saying, you know, because I have.

I got time.

I was competing, so I'm a archery too, So I was meeting with him once it supposed we shoot my bow. You know, he's getting the arom on crusts. I'm shooting like hunting kept me in a positive light to get back that deer there, the doctor says. I was like, can I go hut? And he goes. You can try walking with the normal brains like.

A Dondroy yoga hinge brace you know, and try to get out and see how that goes.

So I was like, awesome. Next morning I shot him. I crawled. I have I have a lot more climber. I go. I go all the way back there and I had to walk like maybe like three hundred yards. It's November seventh, I think I remember. Gets to your tree.

I'm exhausted and with a climber, so my knee still not good. I'm climbing up a tree, but a climber I might have got like ten feet. I was in so much pain. It hurt so bad. I remember sitting down, was like I shouldn't even be here, like this is a bad idea, no ship huh yeah? And then that guy shows up. I ended up shooting him. I had to call Kenny again.

Because it was normal week. He's laid off, and I'm like, I just shot a bucket.

I can't come out of the woods. So he comes out and uh, he walks them the deer. Deer is not dead, so he has to shoot it again. You know I have, but so he has to drag.

He has to drag. He drug.

He drunk me out in the woods a few months prior, and then he stopped dragging that deer out.

And looks for me. So it was a pretty cool moment here.

You know, did you were you wearing a safety hardness when he killed that buck Yeah? Yeah, not a full man. I was hoping you were going to say yes.

Well, I ordered like I hate full body harnesses. I always wore the waist spelt that was my thing. So I girth hitched waste belt and uh that's what I used.

But it was like, oh it was it was tough.

You know, it was cool I killed that buck, you know, like the doctor like said, you know, like hunting was the other thing that kept me going therapy hard, like not taking anything for granted, like really like pushing hard, and uh like hunting got me through the darkest part of that. It's like okay, like I'm good, Like, okay, I did this. And then the lastern I killed the muzzloader. I killed him first day, and mussload a couple of

It's had a pretty good season after what happened, you.

Know, dude. So like I work in the dog space quite a bit too, Like I love bird dogs and just I love dogs. And one of the things that's really interesting about dog like work, sporting dogs, working dogs, is they get a catastrophic injury and they heal up really fast. And I've asked a lot, you know, like crazy shit, right, like think about a German short hair pointer.

It's like.

Our audience will understand it to some extent when you say deer hunting and the prospect of going deer hunting was a lot for you, not only just mentally to like, I got to get back out there. That's the thing that I need to like fill my cup up, but also just go kick ass at PT and get better. That kind of thing instead of just sitting there wallowing in yourself pity changes the arc of your recovery.

I've had a lot of I said, before this leg injury, I had countless surgeries and one thing I found out. Yeah, it's it's tough. It's harsh saying it, but people only care so much about your well being, so they have their own lives. Like before I had kids. It might be different now because they got a wife and kids. But when I was alone, it's like I spent a lot on you know, I manage it this. In my early twenties, I was in the hospital for two weeks

So yeah, we'll get there tomorrow. We'll get there tomorrow.

Very few people came and see me, you know, some friends and workers, you know, my dad was working. It was kind of like, well whatever, so a couple of knee surgeries, no one comes to see you, Like, no one really cares.

It's like that that level of caring stops.

Because well, people have their own lives. There, every own problems to deal with. So it's like, while I'm a pity, no one cares. While I call it the e or mentality, Well with me, no one cares.

Like I don't want to be around those people. So it's like why would I behave the same way. So it's like just accept.

Whatever is happening, you know, and move forward, Like regret what do you regret? Regrets all in the past. All you got is here now, Like move forward.

You're busted up. Good work through a problem, you know, work through your problem.

You know.

Then I came home.

I'm laying in the hospital bed in my house and uh, just laying there just power of them alone, just thinking.

And I was like, once I got home from the hospital, never really checked on me. You know. I was like, you know, a girlfriendmost worked, and you know, then my girlfriend's.

Dad at the time, Like she got six, she wasn't here, like I was litterly alone. My buddy's like they got jobs, kids and stuff like that. So it's like you have a lot of time to think.

It's like.

Something that bad ever happens to me, like me falling out a tree. If I would have paralyzed, I would have screwed everyone's lives off, because not only mine, but everyone around me, because now they got to take care of me, They got to run me here, they got to do this. So it's like you have all these time to think, and it's like I gotta mentally get myself right and get out and do things I enjoyed because sitting in this bed, you know, I was like, it's not it's not for me.

You can probably cut my length off. I'm still going out in the woods. I'm still gonna I'm gonna find a way to get out in the woods, shoot my bet and do things that for my my own mental state I need to do.

Yeah, But I mean, that's it. It's so poignant to hear you talk about that. Like I just wrote about this with uh the situation where you know, the non resident resident thing where you know, residents are like, we got to kick non residents out so I have better hunting. Like there's always there's always a reason. We can always find a reason to not be successful, or we can always find a reason to not have the fun that we think we should or whatever. And I just keep

Yeah, and uh, you know.

I've gotten over now with kids, Like I still think about that, you know, like if something ever happens to me, if I'm hunting like now, like like the saddles came about, you know, like big so like I gravitated towards the saddle pretty much because like the safety aspect of it, like Okay, I'm from here there and down like I'm complete.

I'm you know, I'm connected. I love that part.

And it's like there are some times I'll stand like one stick just and I'll time up set the other stick and I'm like I shouldn't be I shouldn't even be five ft off the ground, and it's like the lineman's literally like right here on my thing. And it's like, you know, and like that AWAYS tell my daughter because you get in the cars, like sometimes I'll forget my safety belt. I always tell ant. I'm like yell at me if I forget to put my belt on because

May have my dun on. What's this beeping noise? It's a safety belt, And the show remind me. I'm like that safety first, and I'm like it's still to this day.

You know, it's like come on, man, Like I'm forty six years old and I still cut corners and it's like and you're.

Running gautlet you know, you take chances with anything. My job, I do some sketchy shit sometimes at work and you're like.

Bruh, shouldn't have done that, hey, but the job's done. But it's like, come on, man, like you know better, like overreaching to get this boat.

You're like, I got this, and it's like why you even doing on that night?

Well? And I mean so my my wife is a physical therapist, right, and she worked at a pain clinic for a long time. She's dealt with a lot of people with random injuries, wild wild shit, right, and you always think, you know, like in the hunting space, people are always like, oh, have you seen a mountain lion?

Yeah, like Osha, they always say like most like in a workplace fall him or like under six feet are someone most fatal, And you're like six feet You're like, it's just a step lane, you know what I'm saying. But you fall, hit your head, you know, Like I know guys that have bumped their head and get brain bleeds, they'll know, go to bed and don't wake up.

Yep.

Then you're like guys that go hiking fall a trail, hit their heads, snowboarders like skateboards, all this stuff, and it's like he's just you never know, like some people just lucky, some people aren't. It's there's no rhyme or reason though it's your time.

I guess it's your.

Time, dude. I've never had like a bad, bad injury in the outdoors, but it is always it's something, you know, like I when I had that fence break on me in Oklahoma, and I thought I ripped my nuts off. I'm crossing the fence. You're crossing the fence, you know, I mean, how many times in a year do we cross barberer fences? Yeah, you know, or I mean I was. I was cutting up a deer one time. This is I was pretty young this time, but I was cutting like a leg bone with a saw over my like

That happen, you know, cattails. So the same year I broke I found on a tree.

So we're gun, honey, We're I'm doing drys for people in through the swamp. On this hand here, No, it's actually this hand here right here, a cat tail went.

And blayed me. I'm walking to the swamp.

I'm like, man, some shut deer's blood everywhere here it is me. I'm like, oh my goodness, like everymbe was like I take off, like turn me. It's just pouring out of my hand. I'm going they we're like knee deep swamp and I'm like and like an idiot, I put my hand in the water, like to wash it all.

Well. Know, So I'm like that was a tough idea. And I was like, I had to go get stitches on the top of my hand.

And I'm like, from my cat, how many cattails are all going through, dude, thousands of miles of cattails.

Never you know, you get him an eye whenever we like it cut me like a razor.

It was, say, I don't even understand this, and like they're all laughing at me because I got this brace on my left leg.

I go to the same hospital I got my legs fixed on. It's like like some days it's just not you man, Like some years he's CA's the.

Wrong end of you know. We we think about these environments that we're really used to, like you, I mean, I mean cattails all the time, cattail swamps all the freaking time, And you think like you know, you always look at like Africa ors you know, some other Australia and you're like, that's so dangerous, like that ground like, but we're just used to the ground we're in, right, and it's not the same kind of dangers. But you know,

And it's like I had a cat. They had a piece of grass stuff in his nasal cavity. I'd take it to the fan and they wanted to put it down because he could put what was wrong. So the one vet was I went there and I put out this. It was like an eight inch piece of grass.

It was just infected in there. And they're like, oh my god, this is horrible. And I was like, but it was just in there.

Lord knows how long it was in there, and it just got an affection down those lungs and everything. But I'm like a piece of grass, like a long blated grass, almost killed my cat, you.

Know, right, And it's stuff like that. I mean, I had a few years ago. I can't remember if I've ever talked about this on here, but I fell through the ice pheasant hunting in a cattail slew and it was like nineteen below that morning, and I fell through. The only time I've ever fallen through were I couldn't touch, you know, you fall through and the cattails quite a bit,

Yep.

And as I was walking out, my dog got Birdie right away and I'm like, well, I'm gonna I'm going back to my truck, but she flushes the rooster. I'm gonna shoot it, and she flushed because I'm like, I gotta go that way anyway. Yeah, And I mean it's brutal, brutal cold, and I'm walking out and Luna flushed the rooster in front of me. I pulled up and my gun was frozen from the barrel to the butt. Dude, like just a block of ice. It wasn't gonna work at all.

But yeah, that's that's a like bird hunters. My uncles were big. They traveled the country bird hunt and ground hunting, and they would go out to you know, Fen all out west there, and like my I live. We live in the coastal area. So it's duck hunters, right, I've been duck.

On some duck hunters.

There's some there's some hardcore dudes, like they will drag their canoe or boat across an ice field, just breaking through the whole time.

Let's go shoot some ducks. You know. It's like, I've been duck hunting a few times and it's like this is this could not end well for us, because it's like you're out the middle of nowhere, the winds just going and you're like, we don't know.

It's just like because it's high time and low tide here and it's just ic. So you're walking on like you might be three feet from the water sometimes, you know. So it's like it's just sketchy. Like I'm not a fan of duck hunt anymore. Like if I'm duk on, I'm like a fair one of the duck hunter.

Like, oh, you got a spot behind your house and a blind right cool revolves a boat.

I'm good man, it's right, it's gonna be sixty degrees and Sonny, we're gonna shoot some wood ducks in October. Sure, yeah, I'm all about that.

Yeah, yeah, thing like right, people that go in that sub I don't even I don't even here hut when it subs here anymore.

Like it's just I don't enjoy it. I don't.

I don't get a reward from him anymore, maybe because I'm just old and it's cold. But dude, if it's extreme cold, now, I'm good.

I I still will sometimes, but it never I've never hunted a situation where you know, people will be like, oh, it's if it's that cold, just go sit the food plot or whatever, and they're going to pour in there. It's always just been me freezing my ass off, not seeing any deer killing anything or you know, you walk out and when it gets that cold, the snow is like that's squeaky crunchy, just like right, it's just a bad idea.

Yeah, I mean, I'll go out winter blow if I need some, Like the last week, a couple of food plots, I'll it on the ground to shoot it. The birth Day comes out and wanted to shoot and by the time they come out, like I'm just a frozen popsicle and it's like and it's like I'm just pulling. You got so much clothes on it, just pull them back. You're like, I'm not super active with it. So it's like just like twenty yards and under, and it's like

You're like, it's cold, man, this and this is New Jersey.

So it's like we don't get negative nineteen like we might get like twelve thirteen degrees, so I couldn't imagine dude negatives with a windshewl like hunting.

It's it sucks. I mean, we we had I know, we kind of veered way off course here, but I went out a couple of years ago with buddies of mine and we in Minnesota, we can start at nine o'clock in the morning for pheasants, nine o'clock till sunset, so we're kind of at the truck whatever, and it's cold, I mean cold, cold, blowziero all day. But you know, in those conditions, those birds are going to be in the best geo thermal cover, which is usually the cattails,

Yeah.

Yeah, it's like uh yeah, extreme cold, extreme heat. Like I'll last year and it was like it was hot like the first week of the season. I'm just like you, I'm questioning what I'm doing out here because it's like it's so hot, Like I'm having a hard time breathing.

It's like get to the trades, like I'm honting in some pine and so it's.

Like there's not a lot of cover. It's just like it's a far wall to get right, and you know, I'm like I can't breathe. I'm like, I'm just going through, like I carry a lot of water. I'm got down the water in the early season. It's like I'm just just chugging it. I'm like, I'm not gonna have any water left for the rest of the day. It's like I get to the tree, climb up and it's just like oil and go and sweating. I'm like, it's like

Man, is that hot? You need to be water. It's like water. I would have felt better in the water. So I'm like, I have one of the little emergency straws.

I'm like, I couldn't drink cut a mup puddle it was so hot, you know, little stake it was like just to moralize, like why am I even going out there?

Like it's like antelope punting for like and not seeing any and it was brutile.

Dude. I I know that I know that I'm probably in like the way minority here, but I love hot weather for white tails. I could just it's not fun. It's not fun, you know the same thing that the last elk I killed a couple of years ago. It wasn't fun at all. But I'm hunting water holes and it was it was hot, and I'm like, you just know something's coming in and you know people aren't going

Yeah, if you got like said.

Some spots, there's so much swamps, so I made like water. It can be tough in the early season, right, there's just water everywhere. So it's like but if you get links to this water hole, that's like, okay, there's there's a pond, an irrigate, some pond, there's some bean, some standing corn.

If you can get in and out three days in a row, you're probably going to see a good.

Mouth because they had to, right, you know. It's just like, well you have to be there three days in a row, you're not going to get it. You're not going to add success, at least for me personally, I would It would take me three days of the same wind, you know, hunt the same little hole.

Your you're definitely gonna kill for sure.

Yeah, And it's just it's it's so simple, but you have to get past the idea that you're going to be really uncomfortable. I mean, the one thing I will say on that is I have kind of like you said about hunting really really cold weather. I'm not I'm not huge into being out there and free. If I'm going to go freeze my ass off, I want to shoot some pheasants, like I don't want to sit at the tree stand anymore. Yeah around right, But also that

Yeah.

I just I bought a pop up last year for a family, but I use it twice. An it was nice. I'm like, put the little rooftop and strong. I'm like, it doesn't it makes it bearable, like you can sleep.

But you're like, okay, I can get down with it. You know, you're not going to freeze.

You're still sweating. But it's like, all right, Humitte is going a little bit, you know. It's like it's nice. It's definitely nice, dude.

Being able to sleep on those hunts game changer. I mean, you you execute your plans so much better. You're not going to talk yourself into going home early. That's a big deal.

Uh.

After so after you go through your injury, how like dedicated to tree stands safety? Do you get Are you like pretty pretty rigid? Are you still kind of like.

Well, sometimes I'll I'll put a step up and I'll catch myself thinking it's like, you know, I still like find myself, you know, like eating with the linemans, I still wrap my leg around the tree.

And put around free like and did without. It's like it's just like that third points of contact. Because alignments, it's not an end all deal. You'll still fall linements, right, It's not that you're not so say, I still find myself using my leg wrapping around the tree s in the next.

Step, you know, but it's it's just to add a peace of mind, you know.

And the one thing with the linements, a lot of people don't lean into linements, and that's where you're going to have your problems because they're designed for tension.

Right, it's not going to stop you.

If you don't have tension on it, you're gonna fall and you're going to hit every stick and they're strolling step you put it right, right, and it's super.

Windy, I'll girth hitch my alignments. You I'll put attachment to my bridge and I'll girthitch it. You know. If it's really windy or rating. I find myself girth hitching going up and down the tree.

It's kind of paining to ask, but you know, outside of repelling, it's probably the best thing you got going, you know.

Ye.

Well yeah, and I mean you've got the lifeline option too, which is something that I'm just I don't know, I'm I'm pretty freaking religious.

Well, yeah, you know, my daughter, she hunts. She used to go.

She always even she just turned six, ten years old, you can legally hunt in New Jersey, so she's working towards that.

And uh, I know I'll have to have those things for her lifelines.

But I have her in the saddle like she's used to being up six feet in the air, Like she used to understand alignments and like the tethers put the saddle getting up in there. So by the time she gets to hunting, aids like my dad first first morning we sat in the ground, first evening we hunted, sat

I remember him just like just.

Climb up there, just like here, step on my my mind and lift me up into this tree stand that don't know if it's safe for anything.

He goes, I'll be back later, and.

I was like later, like what, I'm like eight ten feet from the ground. So I remember sitting in these spots all day and my dad worked shipworks. He probably went somewhere and fell asleep right waking up and come back and go see things Like No, I was like afraid.

To get down.

You should have got down. I'm like eight feet off the ground, like I got my bet, no haul line, like no, nothing. But it's like times have changed, you know.

Like my dad with a put a, he'll put like a climber up in the tree with limbs, just used the limbs to go up. He had this one tree called the sitting tree. It was just limbs all the way up and you just sat on the limb. Always see deer there, but you couldn't shoot out with a belle because it's too many damn limbs.

So you climb up there, You're like you'll see there, and you're like, well, I can't I'm doing it. It's a gun tree, you know. Yeah, basically I was like, yeah, it' thirty come by shoot one pound shooting this, but I'll fall into my death, you know.

But it's like it's times have changed significantly with that, and it's like I tell people you've been around, like the Baker tree stands.

That's my first climber at death Trap, that that one makers. Yeah. God, I remember climbing up and just going I'm good and just gone all the way down. You're like all on the trade and you're like, what's just happened? You don't even know. It's dark, it's noisy. But it's like what we have now is like it's definitely a lot better. Dude.

We people if you if you're just starting out now, you have no idea. I mean, we did all that shit. The widow Maker freaking wooden tree stands have been up since the forties, like those those original uh climbing stands. You know, we used to tie. I can remember like one of the first times I used one of them, you know, you tie. We tied a rope between the top and the bottom, like hey, you can't fall, but I had tied like a six foot rope between them,

You know.

Sometimes you know, I'm I'm like six too, so I I tend to default and put my my sticks pretty far apart, and you have to think, like you can't do that. You know, you're not setting up for you anymore. But it really kind of is a crash course when you set up for somebody else and you're like, I don't want that person to fall. Kind of just teaches you, like here's the process. Like you don't get to say, like I'm pretty comfortable and I do this or I do that, Like it's like I gotta.

Want go ahead.

One thing I do like with the full body harness, because we see it at work. People put it on incorrectly. It's so loose that like I see it in the woods, I see it work, and I'm like, you guys have no idea, like from a guy that falls, like I had not the ground stopped me. But I've I've been you know, I've tested harnesses. I've jumped off tenors just

In some problems with that.

And I see it all you see magazine pictures or like YouTube videos whatever. It's like half people have it all wrong, and like I krins, it's like you're you're probably doing more harm than good, Like you actually might be better hitting the ground because that, you know, you get those.

Things pinched off.

If you pinch off your your another reasons, they're like you can die from that, you know, like bluff float. Like so just because you're wearing safety equipment doesn't necessarily mean you're safe if it's not installed correctly, right, Like like your your lifelines. I see them all the time, the same dude to hunt this ladder Stami with the lifeline. It's been out there for forty years and never leaves.

Them up your round.

Well that's that's what I was going to say, when you were saying that the other fella I tried to get on for this, you know he did had the classic left his tree stand up, stepped on the and the platform gave out trapped door open. And that's that's something you I still hear people say this all the time, like, oh, I changed my ratchet straps. It's like that's great, you know, like that's great. But you you can tell a ratchet strap when it's wearing out right and you look at

Yeah, and it's a fifty dollars stand. People like, oh, I got ten hangos.

They're forty dollars stands, And it's like I have a few of them, but I wouldn't hunt out of them all the time, right, No way, you know, like I can afford hundred dollars at least one hundred dollars stand you know, like just spend the extra. You're gonna get some better material and don't leave it out and get around. Yeah, I mean it's like I can't.

I mean because Jersey there's a stands ladders.

It's who are like Della burn They make you take your stands out for the most part, you know, and uh so it's it's kind of nice states that make you remove stands the end of the season.

New Jersey it's free for all. Yeah, you know, it's just stands everywhere.

And you're like, and you see the old ones with their chains, you know, like my body he hunts all his permanent sets have chains and the season pull loosen them up, let the stand hang there, and then they'll reset them for the season. And because he don't like straps, you know, and he's on a rotation every two years, day comes down and put new gables on that he.

Goes for a whole process.

But he kills some good deer, but it's more of like a safety thing for him, right, peace of mind, right, which is most people don't.

Well no, and I mean there's a there's a big misconception out there with a lot of people. And you see this in the gun in the in the gun hunting world, a lot is I'm going to use a ladder stand, so I don't need a lifeline. I'll just clip in when I get up there. It's like, if you look at the statistics man, the ladder stands are freaking dangerous. And it's because the ankle license. I'm a broken ankle from the ladder stand. Well, the thing that happens a lot, well not a lot, but it's it's

Man, No, undefeated, No.

I mean, so much of this is it's just like in our head, like what we think is going to be okay, right, Like you think like, oh, I don't need to put my seat belt on, I'm just driving down the road to the gas station. Well you might be going sixty miles an hour in one section of that, you know, or thirty twenty whatever. But I mean, I'll tell you a little story before we wrap this up here. I went down to Nebraska with a buddy of mine, I think it was twenty fourteen, and we went in

Whatever.

Well, start talking to this guy and I see he doesn't have a safety harness on, and he's he's walking that property. We were hunting as a section so you can get a mile away essentially.

Yeah, and.

Where he's telling me he's hunting, I know this area, and I you know, especially back then, I'm like, you don't have cell phone reception back there because you're way in the bottom of this valley. So I started talking to him about it. I was like, man, you know, are you not using a harness?

Is it in your pack?

And he goes, ah, you know, I don't. I don't wear those, you know, like he's like, man, and I fell out one time too. He said, I just went from being, you know, sitting in my tree stand to waking up cleaning the dirt and the leaves out of my mouth just hit the ground and we were so we were done deer hunting, and you know, I was working for Bowhunter magazine then, and I was like, I was like, listen, dude, I'll give you my harness. I'll

Yeah, you know, I got that's scarce.

Like, you know, my my dad's friend he worked with he felt out staying and and I was a kid, I was probably ten or twelve. His son found him, I think or whatever. So you're like, that's just I was always aware of that, Like my dad put it in my head. And then I killed this guy right here in the mountains and we're drying them down. My dad killed down my buddy cum the buck. I think, yeah,

Said and call like was a whole like did he fall out?

Like?

So he gives us the whole.

Story, and I'm like, because it's remote, you know, fifty thousand acres so it's like you're.

Not in near a Hikings frond. Nobody's going to go into this little spot. Where got the dude hanging from a stand.

So it's like his foot got caught in and I guess was weren't harnessed and got caught in the cable and he's just hung upside down, probably screaming until you passed out. And I'm like, that's just crazy because it's still twenty I mean, it was just twenty eighteen or nineteen whatever it was. I'm like, then people still didn't I mean, the literature is there. If you're hunting, you see it, you know what it's like, people still don't use it. And I'm like, man, that's just nuts. And

No cell phone service.

Like you're going to die out there right because you didn't want to be comfortable or like you didn't want to wear it.

Like that's just kid's wife, kids, the old family job business. You know, it's just it's not worn't.

At all well. And not to mention the fact that if you do fall, I mean, it's not like you're going to die right away falling seventeen feet like it's gonna be a you're gonna you're gonna have a lot of time to think about it and the mistakes you made. What let's let's just wrap this thing up with I just want to ask you one that question about about your injuries, like do you still deal with repercussions from that fallout? Like do you still deal with the injuries at some level today? For sure?

Every day I'm in pain, but you just deal with it like no one Yeah, yeah, like no like ailment seel Like I still run.

I mean I still you know, it's not going to stop me. I'm not going to stop living my life.

But like my wife will say, like I don't complain about the pain because we were.

Talking, no one cares.

And then when I do get to the point like I'll snap sometimes because like I just need like I can't be bothered with anything right now because I.

Do industrial maintenance. So it's like I beat my body up at work, you know, And then it's like I do stuff.

If you get right from hunting season, It's like my body don't necessarily get a break sometimes and I'll do be something, doing something around the house, like kneeling, and it just gets to the point where it's like I was just irritable and then.

Still say something and I'll just snap at her and I feel bad.

But I was like, if I'm snapping, it's like there's that I have a high personal pain. But like I'm here, like I went from like a like a ten to twenty. It's just I don't need you to stay. That was not very nice.

So it's like it's like I just need a little space to let me and and move on.

But there's never a day and I'm not in pain, right, you know, you just you just learn to if I complain about it every day.

No one likes winer. No one likes a complainer. Like my daughter, she don't care about pain. I gotta pick her up, you know. Even with this, it's like I'm like.

The pick me up daddy, all right, no matter how hard I'm in pain, I gotta do what my dad's got to do.

Or work my knees. We're crawling on that, you know, pulling and belt. My knees hurt.

That belt needs to get in and the belt's gonna be running by far I leave, So you just fuck them down and do it, you know, And then just I'm being paid for a day or two, and then it subsized a little bit and let's go about my merry way, right.

I mean that that's a great way to end this because you actually had I mean not it's not like a favorable outcome, right, but it could have been a hell of a lot worse.

Was Yeah, my my surgeon was well he did was a miracle basically because because I see the x er as before and what he did and what I'm able to do, you know, and it's like that dude deserves an award because he didn't run have anything to work with.

My miniscus was flip upside down, you know. The A c L was the stress. You unbelieved pc L, you know, and it's like both ministers just destroyed.

They got KR how he did KR and bolts and everything went through and it's like you know, fan a while now and it's like I don't get swelling or anything, you know, it just hurts.

Yep.

So whatever he did was, Yeah. I wish I knew where he was because he closed up where he's not at the hospital or wherever he is, like whoever wherever he went. Thanks, there's all right.

There's probably a is it. There's probably just like a some constant level of inflammation in there.

Huh No, it's not not too bad.

But where's the what's the pain coming from?

It's like aches, like it'll just ache, like when if we had that real extreme pressure change, like high pressure, blowing pressure dropped so fast, like I'll be like, hey, the rain's coming, my wife, it's coming, trust me.

Because both my knee and wait but the left one and be like yeah, it's definitely coming. And I can look at you, like brother underground or something.

You see that that bever much of pressure rising down and I'm like, oh, there it is. I was like, and my pain started at noon and love the rise and starting to go up like sharply.

It's like, dude, you're like the wise old guy sitting in his backyard like drinking iced tea, like yep, rain's coming, mama, Yeah we'll be we'll be.

At work for that work at the airport, and some of the guys will be doing somethings like I like probably range jackets. Today was like that rain's coming faster than they get out of here. Turn off poor and it was like told you you know, it's like the joys of falling out of a tree.

I guess, dude, you got like a little a little superhero trait there for deer hunting though. Yeah, yeah, so probably not worth it.

Yeah get in the woods, Yeah.

Probably not worth it, but yeah maybe there's a silver line in there. Uh dude, It's always so much fun to chat with you and hear your stories. This one is a very very uh cautionary tale. People need to pay attention to be safe out there, everybody. Greg, thanks so much for coming on Man and the Problem.

I thanks.

That's it for this week, folks. Make sure to tune in every week for some more whitetail goodness. I'm your guest host, Tony Peterson and this has been the Wired to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you by First Light. If you want to check out that white tail edu content, or you want to read some articles, maybe find a new recipe, listen to somebody else's podcast like Clay's Bear Grease podcast or the Element Boys, you can head over to the meadeater dot com and you will get your