Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the White Tail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go farther, stay longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your guest host Tony Peterson. Today I'm joined by Missouri bowhunter Zach Fleer to talk about organ transplants, facing your own mortality, and how unimportant big bucks are in the grand scheme of things. All right, folks, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you by First Light. You might notice that this isn't the squeaky weird voice of your usual host, but instead is the voice of
your good old backup QB. Tony Mark is off today getting a medical procedure because he suffers from an uncommon genetic variation of male pattern baldness, which only affects his mustache. Essentially, he's getting hair plugs for his upper lip, which is a worse process than it sounds, because they have to remove the hair from his lower back and well lower
than that. I'm sure he'll have a luxurious mustache when he comes out of hiding, and please don't call him stinky lips or anything like that, because he's pretty sensitive about this stuff. My guest today is a good friend of mine named Zach Fleer, who is a really skilled white tail hunter from Missouri. Not only does Zach routinely kill good deer on public land, he's also living with a spare part from his brother after experiencing near total
kidney failure. Zach's story is a humbling one that frames up just how important family and friends are and how you shouldn't take a moment for granted, whether you're at home or in the woods. Zach, it's good to see your face, buddy.
Good to see you, Tony. Appreciate you having me on.
Yeah, we didn't know for a while there whether we're going to have you around or.
Not, and it was a little touch and go for a minute.
But you you know the reason I wanted to have you on here. You and I met on a hunt, Geez, that was probably I don't know what seven or eight
years ago now, on a Turkey hunt. And you have have gone through some medical stuff that really I'm guessing we're going to get into here, but has really shaped the course of your life, and that's you know, we're kind of running this shit Hits the fan series here where we're talking to people who you know, have probably have a different perspective on hunting and family and life than a lot of folks who haven't had something go on.
So why don't you why don't you start? Let's start with this, what's wrong with your kidneys?
Well, it's a. It's an autoimmune disease. And I was unaware that I had I've probably had it my whole life until it got really bad pretty much and things started going downhill. So they call i G A there's a big fancy long term that I can't pronounce and can't remember, but i GA is what they refer to it as. It's worldwide it's the most common autoimmune kidney disease, so it essentially turns your your kidneys into scar tissue, so they don't they don't work anymore.
And how did you know though? What was the first indication where you're like, man, something's going on.
It was the it was the headaches, which I didn't know this. I learned a lot about kidneys over the last couple of years. But your kidneys actually affect your blood pressure or control your blood pressure. Had no idea, but I started having really bad headaches, and it was right after our daughter was born, so I just assumed that lack of sleep. It was second kid. It was a little bit of a rough transition, and so I
was like, I'll get over it. But they progressively got worse and worse, and I was like, well, maybe I have migraines now, So, you know, started taking lots of medication, and it got to the point they were every day and like the first part of my day until medication kicked in, I was just kind of out of it. So as a guy, I'm like, yeah, we're fine, I'll make it through. But my wife made me a doctor's appointment, and so went into that doctor's appointment just for the headaches.
They were going to check me out. My blood pressure was two twenty four over one twelve or something when I got checked in, and the nurse was like, uh, you might be having a heart issue. So they I got hooked up to the cardio thing and my heart was fine. So went through a whole series of other things. Uh, and they're well gave it away. Was actually my ankles were super swollen and they've always been that way. My wife made fun of me quite a bit for having cankles.
But the doctor's like, there's probably something wrong with your kidneys. And so that started off a whole journey of I hadn't gone to the doctor and I don't know how long, but I made up for it in a very quick amount of time.
So so when was this When did it all start?
July of twenty twenty one was when the headache started, and it was January or February in twenty twenty two was when I went first went to the doctor.
And so you put up with the headaches, just assumed it was, you know, life with another new baby, you know, put it off till you couldn't do it anymore.
Huh yep, yep.
And they don't. They don't mess around with high blood pressure when you're young and in shape.
No, No, that's what doctor says. He's like, something's wrong because you're I mean, you're not very old, you're in good shape. So it was they moved things along pretty quickly. I did got an appointment with a and the prologists. They did a bunch of blood testing and he didn't have any baseline to go off of for like what I was previously to where I was at at the
first round of testing. So he's like, we're going to have to We actually waited out for about a month still with a headaches because he's like, a most blood pressure can medicine we can give you is going to damage your kidneys. So he said, I want to make sure. He thought it could also been because all the medication
I was taking to get rid of the headaches. He said, sometimes those can temporarily give you they lower your kidney function, and it actually got worse as we did lab so he said, it's definitely not that because I've quit taking medication for it. So then I got to do a biopsy, which in and of itself was one of the more traumatic things I've ever done. You get to be awake for that and they use a really large needle and just stick it right in there. I was like, this is can't get worse than that.
But do they at least use some local anesthetic or something.
Oh, yeah, they do, but you can you can feel it go in. It doesn't hurt, but you can feel it going in there. And yeah, that was a good time.
So you and I'm guessing here, but with your autoimmune disease. Were you were you like a special kind of to go in there because did they have to be more careful about you getting sick other ways? Was that like a big concern or not?
It wasn't at that time. It is it is post transplant because of the medications I'm on. But at that time, no, they weren't. They weren't worried about it. He said genetic because I was. I was worried about my kids, and he's like, you're not gonna have worry about your kids. He said, it's pretty random. He said it's the most common. But he said it's really random. He said, your genetic markers just lined up that way.
Just bad luck.
Yep.
So how old were you in twenty twenty one then when you were started going through this. I was twenty seven so and you had two kids at home.
I had two kids at home.
So when you when you started going through this, I mean, what are you thinking? It was so hell?
Stuff doesn't has never really scared me that much. It was a wake up call, like you know, going through college and my young adult life. I was a good athlete. I was proud of like my body and my endurance about that stuff. So I'd never really thought anything like this would happen, and so when it does happen, you're taking back a little bit, like, Okay, I'm not invincible like I thought it was, but I just didn't know what it looked like going forward. At that point, I
was still functioning pretty well. The first round of labs I did, he's like, your kidney functions out about nineteen percent. Was when I first found out about this. And he said, if the doctor said, if you go back in your life, you would have known if you knew what to look for, which was was in college for me, was when my ankle starts falling, when I was playing baseball doing all that stuff. So it was kind of a time of reflection, like and he's like, it wouldn't have mattered. They can't
treat it. And the only way he treated is you eventually you get to the point where you need a new kidney or you go on dialysis.
So what's the cankles thing? Is that it just a while retention thing.
Yeah, yep, your kidneys aren't are filtering fast enough and so you tend to retain water.
So this this started to show up, you know, manifest itself in some symptoms. You know, at least quite a few years before you, you know, started getting the headaches and really started getting it treated. And did you you know you you were really good at baseball, right, M play college baseball, That's what I thought. So as somebody who played collegiate level sports, and you know you said this, you looked at it and go health wise, I'm kicking ass and taking name tags right like I'm not. You're
not worried about that. And then all of a sudden, maybe not all of a sudden, but in a fairly short period, you find out that there's something that you have no control over because as many times you go for a run and go to the gym, do whatever, it doesn't matter, Like what was that?
Like, it's it's humbling because it's like I said, I thought I was invincible for a while. And then and you you know, my wife talks about this when you get married. It's like for better, for worse and sickness and health, and you like, you never think about that until something happens. And because most time, I mean most people live their whole life and don't have any major issues.
And it's like and then it happens, and so you have to slow down a little bit and it's like, Okay, we're this is now reality, and like how do you move forward from here? It was kind of my mindset because like, I can't. There's nothing I can do about it now, so we either have to work through it and where you can. I wasn't going to just give up.
I guess well, I mean when I wonder about this and I know that you're not this way, I feel like I would be this way if something like that happened to me. I'd be an insufferable prick to everyone because I would be like, take care of your health, because you know, there's enough stuff we do to ourselves to put ourselves in bad health, right, we know all the routes to take to really destroy your own personal health.
And on top of that, you have this just you know, satellite thing that might happen in your life where all of a sudden, out of your own control, something vastly changes your health for the worst. And now you're at the whims of you know, the medical system and what you have access to and just like a little bit amount of luck there too.
Yeah, yeah, medical system is I hated it I never went to the doctor, and now it's like, I'm thankful we have the medical system because they did save my life. But yeah, it it brings you to a point, like for me, it's like I'm not in control, and you kind of come to a point.
And I don't know if.
You're religious, kid or thing, but it's like, okay, God, let's have this conversation because clearly clear you're the one in control, not me. And so it just brought perspective really to everything. And like like I said, to the health part, it was it was really annoying because I had to go on a super strict diet, which because they're like all these things affect your kidneys, so you can't eat processed food, you can't eat salt, can't eat sugar.
So I basically ate grilled chicken and salad for almost two years, which I was like, it's a that was probably that was sadly, probably the hardest part. For a while. I was like, I am tired of eating salad and grilled chicken, like this is it's just annoying.
But you couldn't eat venison, no red meat.
That was why that's why I switched to the long bow for a little while because it definitely decreased my success rate in the hunting. So that's yeah, very limited red meat, like a the amount of protein which I would I would eat more steak over like dessert. That was just who I was. And so they they said you can have between eighty and one hundred grams of protein a day. I was like, that's like one meal. So that was that was an adjustment, uh, for for
our grocery shopping, for our family meals. We all got a lot healthier for a while there.
So so when you when you're talking about doing that for like two years of being on that super restrictive diet, is that is that because you're on the waiting list now and you just got to maintain the healthiest level you can until your number gets called or what.
So I already actually have done the transplant. Oh we we got that last year twenty twenty three. My brother actually donated a kidney to me, which in and of itself is a very humbling experience because my brother is worse than I am. He hates doctors, it's terrified of needles, all that stuff. So it was a it was a traumatic experience for him and so just humbling that, Uh, you always hope that your brothers will be like there for you when you need him, and uh, he stepped
up and did it. So I'm thankful for my brother.
Gabes is he is he ever going to let you live it down?
He's been pretty he's been pretty good about it. He said that beforehand, he's like, you don't know me anything. He's like, I know you'd do it for me. So he's been okay about it. I've you know, we try to do a few more favors for him.
But so you when you when that doctor said you know you're at nineteen percent function with your kid knees, I mean, are there is that right away? Are they like, listen, we got to get you on a list or we got to find a donor asap.
So we started, we started getting set up to get on the waiting list, which is a long and lengthy process. You got to get all your past history, medical history. I had to get dental lect rays to make sure I didn't have any infection in my teeth, like just all kinds of crazy random things. So that process took a while to get on the list. And they also were they can't solicit live donor. So you have to sweet talk people, you know, to call this number to see if they want to get test said, to see
if they're a match. So it was a long kind of a long process there. And the dialysis is also an option, which for me, I always I never wanted to get on dialysis because that was that was like rock bottom in my mindset, when you're hooked up to a machine to stay alive. I was like, that's gonna get which I ended up having to. But yeah, so I think fifteen percent is where that's where they normally will say they can put you down that dialysis. But
at my age, my doctor was pretty laid back. He said, you will know when you need to be on dialysis. And he said, as long as you're still doing doing what you can do and are feeling okay. He said, it's not like you're, you know, gonna at that stage. He's like, you're you're gonna be okay. But he said, you'll know when you have no energy, and you did. I got there. I was pretty stubborn. So he's there
was a couple of markers. He said, you'll he said, you won't want to do things you normally love doing uh, and he said you won't want to eat, and he said those are the two things that he said you need to watch out for. So I got to the point where I didn't want to eat, and I kept forcing myself to eat because I was like, I don't want to do it. And hindsight is really stupid because I would have felt better having been on dialysis and went in better shape, and I lost energy. There was
there was. I did a lot less hunting that year, just and playing with the kids like stuff as normally as I do. I've I spent a lot of time just kind of laying on the couture, laying in bed. So uh. They actually ended up forcing me to do the dialysis just because my when we got closer to surgery, my blood work and stuff, He's like, it's bad enough now where he said you you may not get through a surgery with the shape that your body's in. So he said you have to get on dialysis.
So well, and that laying around like that wasn't worse for you than the diet.
Well, if I laid around a lot, I didn't eat as much, so that leveled it out.
So when you did you originally go on the donor list and then end up you know, takes a little bit of time when you're not you know, because I think, isn't it like three to five years on average or something?
Yep, four years is average, okay, which is three to five So they're trying to speed that process up now. But yeah, they said it's going to be a minimum of three years, so they tried to speed that process up.
And in that case, you're waiting for somebody to pass away who's a match, right yep? And then in that in that time frame, your free to go out and beg and plead anybody that you're related to or whatever who might be a match that for a spare part.
Yep, yep. I did my I think my mom was my champion there. So she I don't have social media, so she blew social media up, and like of course we talked to my my siblings knew what was going on. So they got to a lot of people we went to church with were kind enough to get tested. People I work with, I think they just did that so they didn't have to do extra work. But but yeah, so they we had a lot of people that, like I said, again, that's humbling because I'm a very self reliant,
self sufficient kind of person. So it was humbling to have a lot of people call in and willing to give a kidney if they're a match.
So what is that like? I mean, what are you thinking when you're in that position where you're like, all these people are going on their way to help me. It's got to be like a little bit of an emotional roller coaster because there's a lot of there's got to be a lot of promise and then a lot of Nope, not a match or whatever. That person has something going on, they're not healthy enough to do it. What's like going through your head as you progress through that stage and you know, it's just.
You always wondered, like I would do that for somebody else, but having somebody do it for me it was It's it's hard to process. I honestly intentionally didn't think about it too much kind of throughout the thing. It was. It was very much an emotional roller coaster for my wife. She she probably took on the brunt of a lot of this, taking care of the kids, taking care of the house. I was wasn't doing much of anything, doing as much work as I could on the computer and
then kind of hanging out in bed. Uh and it got it got worse as the time went on. But but yeah, yeah, when I got down to the end, we had a couple of people that got through to the process to the point it's a pretty extensive process. They they won't different hospitals do it differently, but we did that at the University of Missouri, and they are super strict on who they'll let donate because they want they don't want to cause health person problems for the
person that donate. So they run them through a bunch of tests and they turned a ton of people away just for different issues like wait, anything, they would turn you away. And so we had a couple of people get to the final stages and get turned away, And so that was that was really hard for my wife, you know, her her normal life was was not very normal for a while. And so when we finally my my brother got through the testing and I think he called us for a match, it was I was pretty
emotional for my wife and and myself. You're like, okay, there's there's there's light at the end of this tunnel, but.
Was it was there a point there where you're losing hope.
Mmm, I don't know that I ever lost hope. I was pretty convinced that that God had a had a plan first through this, But there was there was a point where, uh it got got pretty bad for a couple of days, Like I was in bed for probably three days, just didn't get up, and uh here at that point, you're like, okay, like is this is this gonna like am I gonna make it to surgery? So you start wondering, and like I said, my my wife was she took a lot more of that trauma on
than I think I did. I don't think I from my perspective, don't think I realized how far downhill I was. From her perspective, she watched the whole progression as I just kind of tanked the last couple of months.
So we focused like a lot on the physical aspect of it, like how you're feeling and super tired and you know, all of these like physical things. But mentally, that's got to be such a heavy lift to sit there and watch your wife handle everything while you're not doing very you know, like you're not capable of doing anything, and you have a lot of time.
To think, yeah, yeah, it was hard, and she was a trooper and there were some days that were real hard for her. And I can't remember who who told me this, but there it was one of I think it was one of the doctors, and he said, you you going through this. He said, you're not really aware of how bad you are. He said, it's just just kind of the human thing with something like this, where it's a slow decline, he said, I. He said, it's hard for you to realize the point that you've gotten to.
And so, like I said, there were a few times where was like, Okay, this is this is bad. I just laying in bed. I can't get up. I don't want to get up, and the the horror parts. The thing I think got that got to me the most mentally and emotionally was my four year old son. I put him in bed one night and he's like, Daddy, are we going to wrestle again? And that was it just like broke my heart because he didn't know what's
going on. He knew something's going on. There's a lot of stress, but I hadn't wrestled with that poor kid in months, and it's just like I didn't have energy and I was like we'll wrestle again, buddy. But I think that that was the point where I was like, it's gotten it's gotten really really bad. Like my little four year old kid just wants to wrestle.
So that's like real shit. I mean, that's like framing it up really as you're as you're going through that, Like how hard is it to just slide into a pity party? Like I I just wonder what it's like.
I mean, because you see so many people out there, a lot a lot of young folks, Like it's it's really easy to sort of adopt this victim mentality and you know, the world's against me whatever pity party stuff, but you're actually like the person who should be having one, you know, like if anybody's entitled to a pity party, it's you laying in bed with your kidneys dying on you. Like how hard was that?
I don't know. My My mind set normally is like you give me a challenge, it's like I'm gonna I'm gonna push as hard as I can just to get through it. And so I'd have to ask my wife. But there wasn't there wasn't a lot of pity party on my part. I don't know. I look at it from a perspective, it's like, if somebody's gonna have to have this issue, I was like, I'd rather be me than one of my kids or my wife. So it's
like I'll bear this burden. I mean, we all had a burden a bear during the season, but it's like, I would rather just be me. So it wasn't. I don't know. I didn't. I didn't tried not to have the pity party. I tried not to to make a big deal about it or talk about it. I got it got pretty annoying with everybody asking like how are you. It's like I am, I'm still here. Quit asking. But but so, yeah, I didn't. I don't know. I didn't. I didn't go down that path.
So I could see that being an easy path to go down for a lot of people. So you go through this, you're you're on the waiting list. Your brother finally gets through all of the testing and everything finds out he's the guy, even though he's terrified of needles and he doesn't want to do it. There there has to be a of relief there, but maybe like a new sense of fear, Like now you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but you're not you are not there.
Yet, yep, and it was that was a real thing. Like my poor wife, she called it that this doctor multiple times, like is he going to make it the surgery? And we kind of got to a point where it was too late. We had the surgery schedule. I think it was December thirteenth of twenty twenty two, I think is when the surgery actually got scheduled for, and we had kind of picked that date. We could have done it sooner, but I was trying to let I make it a convenient time for my brother and little so
we scheduled this in October. I'm pretty sure it was October September, October. And at that point in time, like I was, I didn't feel great. I was still kind of getting around doing some stuff. So I was like, we'll be fine, you know, having that whole conversation, and uh,
that was when the bottom kind of fell out. And so then it was a point was like, okay, am I going to make it to surgery and I still didn't want to do the dialysis thing, and uh I started dialysis on at the end of November, and that that was the point we're even hunting. I we a rifle hunted that year. I actually shot that really big a point, but like I couldn't do anything of that deer. After I shot it, I was like, I can't move it, I can't feel addressed. I was just there. I had
to call for help. And that was that was when I got a little more real because I was like, this is what's what I always loved, doing what I want to do, and it's like I just can't do it. So that was a little bit of like am I gonna Am I gonna get to the point where we make it the surgery and then then the call were there.
So I was doing labs weekly and you can kind of see the progression where it was going down to, and that that last round of labs, I was at six percent of kidney function and came came home and
like you're sitting about that. I quit showing my wife my lab numbers because it just it was so much stress for I got that phone call They're like, you're going to have to be like on dialysis and so one of the main reasons I didn't want to be on dalysis is they they fuse a vane and artery in your in your forearm, they like cut them and I don't know how that process works, but it's he's like, you will you'll lose some feeling in your hand. And I was like, I just don't want to do that.
I don't want to put a port in my arm. And it was the way they had it set up. You had to I had to get the I don't know, like pre off or whatever. They walk you through the whole process. That takes about two weeks to get scheduled. Then you do the surgery, and then you have to wait two weeks before they can use the port to do dialysis. And we got to the point where or like, I can't no longer do that, so they had to put a direct port in my like in my neck,
straight in. So that was that was not fun either. I was like, it was like it was all kinds of terrible now.
But so when you you know, you and I kept in contact through that whole thing, and I knew I knew you were. You had mentioned a couple of times that you were running real low on energy and not feeling great, but every once in a while you'd send me a kill photo of something and I'm like, well, he's still getting out there, could you? Were you still enjoying hunting at that point, because at that point you were like, what a month out from surgery or not even quite a month.
Yeah. Yeah. Then that November one, so I didn't hunt near as much. I like, getting up in the mornings was almost impossible, which some morning hunts were just were just out. So that whole fall, both season and everything, I think I hunted twice. I did did kill a dough with a boat, which was I felt like it was pretty pretty good accomplishment out of that point, thankful
I had to help getting that deer out too. And then November the day I think I shot that deer an opening day, but like the day before, it was one of the worst days I had, and I was like, I'm probably not gonna go hunting and ended up going out and it was I was cold all the time anyway at that point, and we had a pretty cold day, so I had every layer of clothing that I had on. I was inside a sleeping bag and just bundled up and I was about ready to give up. I was like,
I'm going back to the house. When that deer came out, so I was like it was like a little bit of a lift in spirits. I was like, okay, we can we can get through this. But yeah, it got pretty bad there to the point where it was like, I I didn't hunt any mornings that whole season.
It's just but when you did hunt though, you know, just the random an afternoons that you got out there and you felt, okay, was it? Could you enjoy it? Was it like a good welcome distraction. Yeah it was, Yeah, it was.
It was. It was really good just to just to be out there. I took took my little son multiple times too, and I just just enjoyed being with him in the woods. Yeah it was. It was a good escape for a little while where he didn't have to to think about it really, So it was nice. It was a nice little break.
Did you find yourself when you when you were hunting in those moments because you've killed a lot of big deer, Like, did you find yourself going like caring about that part less and just being like, man, I just need to sit here in the freaking woods.
Yeah? Killing was there was so I actually didn't know if I actually wanted to kill something because then I had to get it out. And so I was still hunting some public laying and it's pretty good hiking some of those, and just that in and of itself was was It took a lot of effort, but I was like, I want to do this, just just still want to
be out here and enjoy nature. And but yeah, and when it came down to like rifle season, I was like, the first legal deer that comes out is going to get shot at, because it's like, I don't know how much longer I could do this, But so that was yeah, I was like, I'm just gonna whatever's whatever comes out and is legal.
When you were doing that way, I mean when you were getting close to surgery time and you're running real low and you're still going out there hunting and still doing your thing, was that driving your wife crazy or did she encourage you?
She encouraged that because she knows just that it's kind of my It's always been kind of my escape. Like you you know, you work hard and to have a kid, it's like, okay, I'm gonna take take this time and just go and do that. So she was always very encouraging for that. I didn't go a lot but I think she was probably the times I went by myself, she was probably a little worried, but she still allowed me to go, which I appreciate, so.
She probably knew how it was to you.
Mm hm.
So you go through that, you kill that big bastard. You're right up on the on the cusp of this surgery. What's it like going into it?
Well, so that it actually the surgery actually got pushed back, which was I started on dialysis, which is it's kind of terrible. Honestly. The doctors all told me that you'll feel better. I was like, great, I'm looking forward to that, and so the first session I did feel little bit better, but I was going three or four times a week, and you're in there for four hours, so you don't you've got a lot of time to read books and think about things.
But I remember, hold on a second, Zach, can you I don't really even know what dialysis is. Can you explain it?
Uh? So they put the port into one of your arteries. So they went down into my actually through my neck, into my whatever artery that is. I don't know. I biology is terrible. Yes, there's that's the word for it. So they did that and then they hook you up to this big machine that's got some kind of fancy filter on it. I learned a lot from the guy been doing it for a long time. He said they used to use seaweed to filter out, so they're they
pump blood out of you continuously. It's it's cycling through and it filters out all the toxins, which is what your kidneys are supposed to do, but mine were no longer filtering anything. And it pulls fluid off you too, because when your kiddies get bad enough, you don't don't urinate as often and your body just builds up fluid, and so they can use that process too to pull fluid and it filters your kidney. So I like, it's a giant machine sitting beside me, and you can wash
your blood pump through it. You can feel it coming in and out. Like it's it's interesting that it's that room was full of people that were in worse shape than I was. Like, that was that was pretty humbling too. You walk in here, It's like, man, all these people look like they're already at the end of their rope.
Were they all getting dialysis too?
Yeah, they're all on dialysis that they had a special room that's just Diallasis patients. So you go in and that's your appointed time and get hooked up.
So you were doing this like twelve to sixteen hours a week.
Yep, for four days a week for about it took about four hours. The sessions were so.
It didn't make you feel better.
The first time, I was like, okay, this is good. I felt I had some energy, but they didn't run I can't remember all the technical terms for it, but they run you for a certain amount of time and they pull a certain amount of fluid off and the filtration rate all that stuff. So basically to just get your body started. It was a pretty short session and I actually felt better, but they forgot progressively worse, like the more I did it, And they said that some
people's bodies just don't tolerate dialysis. I mean, it's a pretty The guy that's took me up, he's like, it's kind of a form of torture, but we're keeping you alive for now. So and it was it just you come, you get get through the process, you come home. And I always went in at seven in the morning and i'd come home around eleven eleven thirty and would eat something, say how the kids, and I was in bed until probably six o'clock at night when I could get back up.
It just wipes you out. I can't have no energy.
It was nice. So that was if half of your blood isn't inside of you, Yeah, for four hours.
Yeah, so it's a I'm thankful for the process. It kept me alive longer, but yeah, it's hard to I'm trying to think of how the guy put it. He said, we'll keep you alive, but you're not really living. Uh, but that's the way he put it, which was kind of true.
But so then so then your surgery got bumped back a little bit. Why the surgeon.
Had a family emergency and his daughter actually got super sick, and so they pushed it back. It was scheduled for December thirty teenth, and they got pushed all the way back to January nineteenth. So it was at that point in time I was very thankful to have started Dallasis because it would have been pretty rough that extra few weeks trying to get to surgery.
So what's the surgery, Like.
We go in and there's they do a bunch of blood tests, they do all that stuff. They take you to big prep room and shave all the hair off your everywhere on your body. Uh, what's that's always? That's my joke. I was like, I go into the hospital, I always have to take my clothes off. I was like, is there a time where I can just come in and not have to get naked? Like every time I go in there, Like I'll just take my clothes off when I walk in. But yeah, so it's, uh, that
part's awkward. And then they tell you, you know, all the things that they're going to do to the surgery, all the risks you have, and then you know, do you have any questions like how do you feel in today? You know, I asked a surgeon. I was like, hey, on the day you got, how's steady hand? But he's like, I'm good. Yeah. So my I use humor to deal with stressful situation. So, uh, my wife doesn't appreciate that
very much. And that is moments. But yeah, there's then there's that time where like my brother came in right before he went to surgery that that was probably hard because he he could tell he was nervous. Like I felt really bad for him because like he just despises needles and knives and all that stuff. So I just stressed for him. And then they take you to a
room where you're just kind of sitting and waiting. You get get to think a lot a lot of things there, and like you reflect on life, like where have I What have I done to this point? And so like you think about jobs and all the hunting stuff, and I was like, none of that is is really all that important in this moment, Like you start thinking about
my wife and kids. I was like, at that point, my wife was actually pregnant again, which I've left forgot to mention that she's she was a our our third child was born ten days after my surgery, so she was ready to pop. So the pushing the surgery back for her was like she's like, I'm gonna have a baby and you're gonna be surgery. Like it was, it was stressful.
But do you think she was more stressed out than you?
Yes, yeah, significantly. And she's still she still carries more trauma from that that that or I just haven't dealt with any of it yet. But but that's the stuff you think about it. I'm like, I'm leaving a wife behind who's has two kids. She's nine months pregnant, Like, yeah, that's the You have no control over her. It's like you just just pray. The God's sovereign and going to take care of you in that time, and if you take me, take care of my wife and kids.
So yeah, I bet her stress level was. I mean, because if it goes wrong for you, you check out and she's still got real heavy lift going on there. Yeah yeah, yeah, I forgot that she had the baby when you were just just post operation. Uh so you you have to I'm I'm guessing they you had to sit around and wait because they got to go in, take his out, make sure everything goes okay before they
start on you. And so you're just like, however long this takes, sitting there twiddling your thumbs thinking about all the dumb shit you've done in your life and all the decisions and all the like, probably going pretty deep.
Right, Yeah, yeah, you got a lot of time to think. It was. I can't remember how long I but I was in a room just laying there by myself. There wasn't really any nurses in at that time. They had me all prepped for surgery, and it's like we'll come and get you when when they get when they get the kidney out of my brother, they said, we wait for that because if something goes wrong, we don't want to have you already prepped for surgery, like in surgery.
And so yeah, you do, like get to reflect a lot on life, what you've what you've accomplished with your life, and like in that moment, none of those big dear, none of that stuff mattered. Like I was like, I spent a lot of time pursuing all of that, and it's like a perspective. There's a lot of times where early in our marriage, I was like, I ditched my wife a lot to go hunting. It's like, maybe I
shouldn't have done that. Like you do, you reflect on all those things, like all the decisions, all the what ifs, Like there's probably a lot of things I should have done differently. So it was yeah, for an hour and to happen to do that.
Obviously I've never gone through this, but it sounds like such a very natural thought process. But at the same time, you've got to weigh that against having something that you're that passionate about to where you're still going out to the blind with your son when you can barely walk, you're sleeping all day, there's still there's a component of that passion for the outdoors that's carrying you through to some level, you know. I mean maybe it's two percent
of what the family is or whatever. But it's like a it's not an like it's not insignificant, you know. But then you but then you go through this and you frame it up against the rest of your life that you could have lost. Yeah, it's just the big deer just not that important. They're not.
And like even post post surgery and all that, I don't hunt there as much as I did. That's because I think it well, part of you have three kids, so you're just busier. But the perspective of that, and my wife said that too, She's like, there's been a lot of change since then, Like I'll spend I spend
as much time with my family as possible. I spend a lot more time serving other people too, like in our in our church, and just like eternal perspective, like this, I'm gonna die at some point, I know that, but there's you have an eternal life after this that you can live now for. So there's been there's been a
big shift. I still love hunting, I would do it all the time, but having gone through that and coming to a point where you get to reflect on like this is what I did with life pre surgery, and I feel a little bit like I have a second chance. Now It's like, Okay, I'm going to reset some things, reprioritize some things, and try to try to really focus on family, like investing in my family, because the reality
of this is is kidneys have a shelf life. They've already told us that, and so it's like, this one's not gonna last, probably not going to last the rest of my life. Average is fifteen to twenty years. I was a close enough match to my brother. They said, you'll probably get longer than that out of it. I think the longest one they've had like up to forty years. But so there's a reality there that's like this is
a temporary fix. So they'll we'll we'll either have to do it again or But so that's that's a good reminder to keep things in perspective. Right now.
So when you come out of this, like what do you what do you feel when you wake up from that surgery? Like what do you like when you come out of that and you're kind of like, you know, your your brain's going back a little bit and you're realizing what's going on, Like what what do you feel?
I didn't have a headache, was the first time I noticed, which is the first time in however many years. It's like, my head doesn't hurt. But I was, you know, pretty groggy. Like you go in, you get on the they have you move over to the surgery table, and when you're in your nice little gown mostly naked, and uh, anesthesia starts and like there was a lot more people in the room than I thought there'd be. So I was like, well,
I was awake. This would be embarrassing, but like whatever, so you do the breath and then you're out, like and then just remember waking up and I had there was just like cords and things stuck in me everywhere, and I was I was curled up on my side and just I was coming in and out a lot. I remember the nurse saying something to me. I have no idea what she said, but but you're it's like I'm awake. I was like, that's gotta be a good time. Like I'm still here. This is I don't think this
is what heaven looks like. It still smells like a hospital. So so yeah, I was like just grateful to wake up, like, okay, I'm still here, and then I don't know what. I was pretty out of it cognitively at that point, so I don't know how long it was before like they
allowed my wife to come in and see me. It was a several hours long surgery, and so it was good when I finally got to go into the recovery room when they could come in, and they had pretty limited visitors because at that point they they shut my immune system off completely so it didn't reject the kidney.
And so you're on a pretty heavy immuno suppress and after after.
The yeah, well immediately after surgery, they hooked me up to they call it a rabbit. I can't remember what the long name was for it, but it's something they derive from from rabbit. So that was a question they asked me, like, do you eat a lot of rabbit? I was like, well, I have, I have before, but I wouldn't say a lot. But it just shuts your immune system down, which is why they leave in the
hospital for quite a while after. But and I'm still on immunosuppress a meds, but they're not not to that level like at that point in time, they're like, yeah, cold or anything, like you don't have an immune system, like it can take you out. So it was it was, yeah, interesting that you can have a visitor in there, but they were pretty strict about that.
So so even when you even when you go through all that, you went through and you get out on the other side, now you have a new concern that the kids picking up some kind of virus at daycare or whatever can all of a sudden turn, you know, it can break bad in an instant.
Yeah, real bad.
It.
So we were in quarantine for ninety days. Like I said, my wife had a had or third third kid, Solomon, ten days after surgery, and I couldn't go, which was really hard, Like I enjoy really enjoying my kids and like being there in that process, and it was really really hard for her too, Like I got to FaceTime in which is not it's not the same, but yeah, like you you miss that, like missed the burth of my third kid. Yeah, there was a lot of weird
things happening, and so ninety days, you're pretty much. I was stuck at home. I did some try to do some work on the computer and stuff. But I mean it's ninety days where even my wife can't really go anywhere because if she brings anything back, it's like it could be crash and burned for me.
So so give me, give me a don't know scale of one to ten. One is not a bad ass at all. Ten is super duper bad ass. Where's your wife fall after this whole thing?
Yeah, she was, She's definitely in ten. Yeah, she had a baby on her own. She took care of the baby and be and our other kids on her own after that. Like it's just she was a trooper through that all I think. I think in the moment, like she did what she had to do, and coming out of that now is where she started processing all of it. So it's more of a like any health stuff right now is an instant trigger for her. And like I said, either I'm just either I'm not very emotionally aware or
ignorant or what. But I was like, it still doesn't really like I made it through this, Like God provided, I feel like I don't feel like he's gonna take me like with another sickness or something. But for her it's real because again she's like I've got three kids, like you go off and die, like I have to take care of all of this.
So it's it's hard to it's really hard to contextualize, probably because your experience, I mean, you were the to everybody, you were like the victim, right, like you were the one who was suffering, and she's just got to put on a brave face and survive. But her experience is vastly different than yours, but real bad and kind of in a way that she can't really even get it. She's not getting credit the same way you are for getting through it, like it's a different experience.
Yeah. Yeah, And we had we had a lot of friends from church and wherever, just they were constantly checking in on me, like how you doing. It's like I'm doing fine. You need to check in on my wife, especially during that ninety day quarantine, like baby, you know you got some just a lot of emotions after you have a baby and hormones going crazy. Like I was like, just just check on on her, like.
She do you know what it's like? And I have you this is this is gonna be a terrible example, let me use it anyway. So you're this rich dude who goes to this premier hunting place and shoots a one hundred and ninety six injure and get your trophy photos, and everybody's just like, oh my god, Zach's the best
hunter ever. Meanwhile, your wife's just the guide who did all the work to find it, all the work to set up the stands, run the cameras, pattern it everything, and she's just sitting back there like, well, you know, like I pitched in a little too, but everybody's like, no, you're the man. That's that's what I think of when you tell me that.
Yeah, excuse me that that is one hundred percent kind of how it went.
So I in preparation for this podcast, I was just reading up on organ transplants and kidney failure and stuff, and one thing that I read about that's pretty interesting is with a lot a lot of organ transplants, uh,
people's personality will change afterwards. And so you know, you kind of look at that and go, is this just going through something super traumatic and you know, like facing your own mortality kind of thing, or is it are you taking a piece of that person with you and becoming a little bit of them, Like do you do you now suddenly do any of the annoying stuff that your brother does.
So we do have this joke. My my wife read up on about a lot of this stuff, like and kidney kidney disease is probably the best thing you could have because everybody has two kidneys. So like you got a heart problem, like nobody's gonna freely donate their heart. I don't think so anyway. But yeah, so my brother he shops all the time, Like we make fun of him.
He says he doesn't, but he's always shopping. And when you have ninety days of quarantine, like you can read some books, you can do some work, but you and evily end up on Amazon. Like my wife's like, this is real. It's like you're you're doing it. But I was like no, I mean, I was like, what else are you gonna do? So I bought like a I think I bought a pair of parents in some church, which I don't. I don't ever shop for clothes. But she's like, this is a real thing, Like you're so
I wouldn't say I still shop a lot. I don't. I don't think my personality changed a lot.
But would would she say that it has.
I don't think she would. Other than that experience where I shopped for like two.
Weeks but you got so bored you close shop I did.
That was pretty terrible.
But dude, I I kind of get it when I when I got COVID and I was in you know, my ten days or whatever. Back when COVID was everybody was scared and you know you actually did quarantine away.
I started like online shopping for shit. Like I look around my house and if I didn't kill it, like or take a picture of something, like, it's not going to end up on my walls, right, but my walls are covered in decorations and stuff that Like, you know, I was thinking about this the other day when I was working on I'm like, I've never bought a blanket in my life. Like if you were like, go buy a blanket, I'd be like, I don't know, I guess
I'm gonna go Target and try to find one. But they show up in my house all the time, like all these decorations and stuff. But when I was in when I was in COVID quarantine, I watched every Jackass movie. I watched. I mean I was like, I kind of get like a little bit of what you're talking about, because I was starting to look at stuff like, oh, this is a cool thing to like put on my wall, and I never do that.
Yeah, I watched fishing shows, which I have nothing. I like fishing. The fishing shows, I don't know how you make them exciting, But I watched a lot of fishing shows during that time too. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, just what I did.
As somebody who filmed a fishing show last year. They're difficult to make exciting.
I can imagine that.
You know. I filmed it with Andy May, you know, the whitetail Hunter, and I think what made that show. I mean, we caught a lot of fish, it was cool, but I think what made it cool was just us giving each other NonStop shit, like when you're fishing with your buddies, you know, because otherwise I mean other Fishing's tough to make fishing compelling. I mean that's why most of the content is all tournament based, because there's some
drama built in there, you know, total sidetrack. So you're you're out of the you got a long runway ahead of you now before you even start thinking about this, this latest kidney here maybe maybe starting to wear down on you a little bit. Well, how does it you? Kind of you kind of alluded to this, but like what are you looking at for like your future now? Like have you changed how you plan? Like are you like, man, we're taking the kids to Disney, We're doing this, We're
doing that? Like what did it? Did it change at all? How you're like, I'm I'm grabbing life by the short and curlies and I'm going hard.
Yeah it did. I came out of it with a little more motivation to do things differently, Like I think one for me was like this life's going to end, so thinking about eternity, like I started doing I started doing pastor training. Still still am going through that process. But I was like, I want to make I don't want to have all my uh all my hopes stuck in in this life because I know it's gonna ended up. It just about did. So that's been a big big
change for our family too. But outside of that, like I said, just like really investing in time with my kids. It's like I don't ever I wrestle with my son all the time, every day, lunch breaks or at night. He's just it's it's uh, it's fun. So I don't want to miss out on those opportunities. And there was a lot of times with with my kids and with with my wife where I missed opportunities just to be
with them, be present. And it's like, so I think coming out of it, that's been the biggest two things for me was like just being being present because it got pretty close there too to my wife not not having a husband anymore, and so it's like I don't want to I don't know, I talk about like the rent widows and all that stuff. It's like I don't
want her to feel that way anymore. And so it's been a change with a little more perspective on investing in in my family and it just yeah, what what God has called me to do with you know, sharing the gospel.
So when you look at your your hunting future with White Tails is one of the things that I've always respected about you is you have access to private land, but you you spend a lot of time working on public land here too. And you know, a lot of people when they get when they're like, hey, I can go to the farm, even if it's you know, farther away or whatever. They're like, I'm going someplace where the food plots are and the box p lindes are and
I'm taking I'm taking that route. I'm not going to go fight it out on public land down in Missouri like you do. But you still do it? Are you?
Like?
Do you look at hunting now? It's just differently, like I just want to go do like be where I want to be when you take the time to go, do you look at it differently instead of just thinking like my best chance for a big ones here or I know they work this ridge and I want to get up there, like you, do you plan it differently at all now or not?
So I have to plan it differently because I can't. I can't scout as much as I did, So from that aspect, it's playing a lot differently. I do a lot more scouting as I'm hunting now, finding fresh shine,
which should have been doing all that before. But a lot of times scout before season and I go to where that is, but like finding where the der are because it's like I got a lot more limited time to actually be here, so I got to make a count, and I'm kind of a realist, So the expectations I have for how big a buck I'm going to go after are what they were, you know, two three years ago. It's like, I'm I have an amount of time out here.
If I like the deer I shot last year, I think I was as pall as luck I've ever shot. But it was pretty exciting because I was like, that was the first deer I've killed post surgery, like it was. It was just awesome to be back out there again. So just enjoying the moment like I it helped me.
It probably helped me enjoy hunting even more because I just enjoy being in the woods more now and shooting whatever gets me excited in the moment without the weight of expectation of killing a trophy, which I I wasn't real bad about it, but it was always there, like there's people that know me have an expectation that I'm going to kill a big deer, and it's like I may not. I may just go out and have fun and shoot the first legal thing. Like it's I don't really care anymore.
And you were you're speaking my language now, buddy, I mean, it's just uh, there's a freeing aspect to not caring about the big antlers as much. There's just like it's like freeing to just be like I view this more as as like an outlet for me to just go be in a place that really matters to me. And yeah, it's important to get to meet It's it's fun to
shoot them, it's fun to do the whole process. But when you when you fly real close to the sun with the trophy stuff, and then you realize, like, it's it's cool, but it's there's a lot of it that's not cool and it doesn't matter as much as we make it seem. And you kind of come back to earth a little bit and you're like, I'm looking at this the same thing that the trophy hunters are doing, but I'm looking at it a different way. It's it's really freeing, and it's like it's a that's a message
I've been pushing a lot, you know. That's one of the reasons. Last year Steve and I went down to Oklahoma to hunt public land, you know, Steve Vanilla, and I was like talking to him beforehand. I was like, dude, we're going deer hunting this is not going to be a big buck deal like we're we If we get deer in front of us, it's going to be freaking awesome, and it's it's hard for people to grasp that. And I killed two little bucks on that hunt. I know I'll get a ton of shit for it, but I
don't care. Like four days on public land and you get a fifteen yard broadside at something in a state that's ten hours from home, it's just like, yeah, it's there's a different feel to it than going out and you know, chasing a hitlister on grandma's farm or whatever, and they're all great, but it's fun when you kind of achieve that level where you're just like I don't need that pursuit of big antlers, Like he walks out, I'm going to shoot him, like you get on you know,
Like I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying, like, when it's not that's like not priority one things, just you just look at it differently. It's free, and yeah, it has.
Been a lot more free and like I just just enjoy hunting Moore. There's not the pressure of I have to make sure it's legal. That's that's my biggest hurdle right now. I use the buy nos a lot, and I'm not one I shot last year. I was scoping about pretty hard and I'm like, dude, he's got four points on one.
Side because you've got aprs there.
Yeah, we got gotta be four points on one side. So and when I first saw him, I was like I was I felt disappointment because I was like, I don't think he has four points on one side. And then he turned and I was like, oh man, I was like, go time, he's got four points. But uh yeah, just it's more fun. And I think it's really good that I'm in this place now because next year or
this year, Titus will be six. So in Missouri you can start honting when or six and like taking him out with no expectations, like you shoot whatever you want, buddy, We're going to have a good time with this. And so that's more what I look forward to now, Like I'll be excited if I shoot a big deer, but I'm not going to pass. I'm not going to pass a lot of deer waiting on a big one.
So, uh, at six, is he just going to rifle hunt?
Then I'll see if he can shoot the crossbow. He's he's not real accurate right now. He just gets excited to shoot a gun or the crossbow or whatever. So we got some skill to hone over the summer. But yeah, we'll see how he does with the crossbow. But he may. I don't want to push him too hard either, Like if he's not not ready, I won't force him to go.
He just says he'll enjoy going with me, and he always wants to shoot squirrels too, so we might try to get some of the practice in on squirrels before we hit for deer, so it's.
A good way to start it. He hasn't turkey hunted yet.
He's been with me. He didn't get to carry again or anything. So yeah, he just he just enjoys being with dad mostly.
But yeah, yeah, six is young man. I mean, it's it's just they're on the cusp there, you know. And I even look back, I didn't start my daughters until they were eight on turkeys and deer, and I look back at the pictures of them now and I'm like, I can't believe I took him out there when they were that little, you know. And my wife is really like I can't believe you took my daughter's you know, gun hunting turkeys when they were eight when you look at the pictures. But it's you know, it's cool to
get him on an animal. But it's just that that part of like my hunting, that that's what changed me the most is when I could take my girls. I mean, I'll have years now where the first month of the season, I don't even pick up a weapon other than carrying one for them, and I don't care at all. Like gets so fun to take and just experience it, you
know through their perspective. Now it's like, yeah, it's so fun to be with somebody when any deer is anywhere near you, or a turkey gobbles anywhere near or anything. They're like, oh my god, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Eyes are getting huge. Yeah, that's It's been a lot of fun just to just to re experience stuff that I'd forgotten about, like little things you find walking through the woods. They get his pockets to be full of acorns by the time we get out, just stuff like that. He just he gets excited about everything, and I'm like, I need to I need to just enjoy all the moments again, whereas you get for a while, I got
so focused on, you know, killing that big deer. It's like I missed out on just enjoying being out here, so.
Right, I dude, They they let you know how much cool stuff is out there. Yeah, and you know, you
think about I think about this a lot. Where you know, if you you have limited time and you go out and you're scouting or you're hunting, you're so mission focused and you kind of miss a lot of that stuff, you know, Like we don't when I was growing up, like it was pretty common we're just going to the woods, like we're just gonna go walk through the woods, you know, or like just be there and you're just doing that for the experience of being there and not because you're
going to get a pattern on a one sixty or whatever. And kids are just like they're perfect for framing that up for you, like they're they don't they just view it differently. And it's like such a nice centering moment because we can go so far you know, I don't know if it's even the wrong way, but we can we can go down some different paths that where we just don't appreciate the woods for what it really can
offer you. It's like if it if it doesn't deliver me that hitlist or it was no good, and it's like, man, that's just not It's a rough way to go about it.
Yeah, it really is. Yeah. I was the same way growing up, but a lot of it was to escape doing you know, chores at how But we lived on fifty acres, so I was just gone all day, playing in the woods, playing in the creek and just loving it. And so it's been been good to get back to that. Just just enjoyed being out there.
So big time. Did you did you kill that buck last year? In public?
I did? Yeah, it was I know, there's we camp We camped out. I went with a couple other guys just camped in the back the truck, which was a lot of fun. And it was one of those days where I set them up and and every spot that I wanted to go after I got them where they wanted to go, somebody somebody was like pulling into the parking spot. I was like, this is December. You guys should be hanging out for Christmas or something. But so the last spot I would ended up going was there was.
There was actually a bunch of fresh signs, so I was like, okay, well we'll hang out here. But but yeah, he's a public Laian deer.
So what what what was he doing? What'd you kill him on?
I was in in a transition aery like there, I was real tight to betting, uh, and there's a bunch of crop fields behind me, and he was just working his way through down a trail. I I shot him at eight yards, which was probably good. I needed a close shot. It had been a while so but yeah, he was just slowly moving through that care in the world. I was on the ground too, which made it made it even cooler.
So so you went into Missouri public land in December after the guns, he's enraged through speed scouted a spot after playing you know, a B, C and D was taken up by other dudes, and found some fresh sign set up in there and killed one from the ground to eight yards I did.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome, I thought. The only only mistake I thought I made was I there was a tree on the ground that had a split trunk, and so it was a huge tree and I sat up in front of it. But the trail actually came by me. One of the trails came by me at like feet and so it split off at about eight yards in front of me. And so as he's coming down this, I was like, you better turn otherwise this is gonna it's gonna end bad. And he did, which is way
I thought they would go. But it could have got I don't. I don't. I don't know if I could have shot him if he came straight or not. But but yeah, it was. It was fun.
Did you kill that deer with a compound?
Yeah. I haven't been shooting the longbow very much.
Just I really don't need the challenge anymore.
I do at some point, but not I have enough challenges, so.
Right right, Yeah, man, I love it so much. Your story is freaking wild. Dude. I'm so glad you made it through that. Uh, it's great to see you. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story. I think a lot of people are gonna listen to this and they're gonna maybe reevaluate how they look at their hunting a little bit.
Yeah, I mean, I hope. So I'm glad to share. And yeah, I think the woods in general would be a lot better placed if everybody's out there just enjoying it and gets a little competitive, I think. And just go out there and enjoy it and enjoy your family. Take them out there. Wike it?
So yeah, I love it, buddy, Thanks so much for coming on.
Yep, thanks Tony.
That's it for this week, folks. Make sure to tune in every week for some more whitetail goodness. I'm your guest host, Tony Peterson. This has been the wire Don podcast,
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