Ep. 773: How to Get Hunting Permission in 2024 and Beyond with Spencer Neuharth

Conservation initiative. Camo for Conservation is a program in which a portion of every sale of first Light Specter Camo pattern portion those sales goes to support the National Dear Association. Love it and I love our topic and our guest

today on the podcast because we're talking about access. We started this little mini series last week we talked about leases, and now today we are talking about getting hunting permission, free permission access to places to hunt, regardless of how much money and what kind of resources you have available

to you. And I think this is obviously a very very important topic It's something that I have been working on for a whole lot of years trying to figure out how to do this, and I think the general consensus that most people are reaching now is that it's getting harder. You know, when I started really getting into this fifteen twenty years ago, the trying to gain permission for myself, it was a lot harder then than it

was fifty years ago. And that trend continues as I think, you know, just natural things are happening, there is high demand for places to hunt, and when there's more people all trying to find places to hunt in those increasingly rare, open, undeveloped landscapes where you can hunt. So demand is going up, supply is going down. Right, You're going to have challenges there.

So that is inevitable in our world, and this is not going to change likely, So we need to continue to find ways to get better at this, get creative with this, have a plan in place to make sure

that we can still have locations to hunt. Of course, we've got public land which we are so so fortunate to have access to, and that continues to be an incredible resource for US deer hunters and any kind of hunter or angler but man, still there's something to be said about finding a piece of private land that you can get access to. You can stumble onto or find or work really hard to get access to some great stuff in this kind of way. So that's the plans.

We are going to break down specific strategies, specific tactics, processes you can put in place to gain hunting permission. And my guest is my pale and permission extraordinaire, Spencer Newharth. You might remember him as a longtime co host of mine and he ran our ret Fresh radio series for many many years here at Wired to Hunt. He now hosts the Meat Eater Trivia podcast, so he's still in the media to universe. He's still in my world. We just haven't got to hear from him as often here

on Wired Hunt. So I'm excited to have him back. And he's a guy who's kind of specialized in getting permission and doing it in a number of different ways. So that's what I'm excited about in this particular chat because he can give us really good ideas on how to assess the quality of a piece of property as whether or not you should be interested in trying to get access to it. He's got ideas about how to

get permission by knock it on doors. He's done it by phone calls, he's done it through social media, and he's done it through letter writing campaigns. Actually, so we discuss all of those different approaches. So no matter if you are a people person or not, if you are terrified by the idea of going up to a stranger or if you are excited by that idea, there's going to be a tactic that you can try coming out

of this chat. So that's the plan. I want to give you one quick heads up on something, and then I want to give you a few of my own thoughts on this before we get Spencer on the line. Now. Number one quick kind of public service announcement. Last heck, I don't even know when this was. I guess it would have been early this winter. Maybe we dropped our first new Wired to Hunt merchandise in years. I had a new hat that's being sold on the Mediator store.

It's got a really cool I should have been wearing it for this one. But there's a really cool deer across the front and it says Wired Hunt on the side over there. Well, we're almost out of them. We're almost completely sold out, so if you want to get one of the last handful of wired Hunt hats on this run, heading over to the meat eater dot com or there's actually a link in the description for this podcast today, so you can click that. I do not

know if we're gonna have another run of these. I do not know if there will be more, if there will be different colors next time, if there will be different styles, No idea yet. I think it's it's probably gonna be determined on whether or not we sell out of these, which it seems like we're going to. And if that's the case, hopefully they will be support to get some new stuff. But get these while they last, because I just don't know what's coming next. So that's

the first heads up. Wired Hunt Hats are nearing zero check them out now. And that's I guess that's really it. There are two other things I suppose worth noting. The Meat Eater Live Tour is depending on when you're listening to this. I think it's kicking off very very soon. So if you are in the West part of the United States, that's where the Mediator Live Tour is this year. Heading over to the media dot com to get more details on that. And then finally there's a new thing

that Mediator's launching called meat Eater Experiences. This is going to be an opportunity for folks to join the Mediator crew, people like Steve Jannis Cal myself and Tony even on fishing or hunting trips. I'll let you get into all the details over on the website if that's something that you are intrigued by. But that's the thing meat Eater Experiences, that is available to learn all about at the meat eater dot com as well. So that is it for

housekeeping and updates. Now let's talk a little bit about permission, and I just want to give you a few of my thoughts, you know, from my own experience before we get Spencer on here. And I think the biggest thing and we do talk about this a little bit, but I want to emphasize here at the beginning, is that getting hunting permission in twenty twenty four or twenty twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven, whenever it is that you're listening

to this, it is really a numbers game. It's going to come down to how much effort are you willing to put into this. How hard are you willing to work at this? How many attempts are you going to have? Right? How many swings at the ball? If you want to hit home runs? Right, you're not gonna him every time. You're not gonna him one out every ten times. Probably right.

You need to try over and over and over and over again and not be disheartened when you get a bunch of notes, because you are going to get a lot of nos, whether you're knocking on doors, whether you're sending letters, whether you are asking friends and family members

in random conversations, whenever you find out somebody owns land. Right, we're asking a lot, if you think about it, asking for someone to let us, maybe we're random strangers, let us have free hunting access to their hard earned land, to a resource that they've put sweat, money, tears into maybe, and then expect you know, hey, we just think we should be able to walk out there and use their thing.

That's a big ask. So we should not be surprised that people are hesitant, that people are unsure, that people have reservations about that, or the fact that they just don't want you using their stuff when they've got other people they know that already do. So like we're taking a flyer like this is a moonshot right out the gate. Don't be surprised when your moonshot does not land on

the moon every time. Okay, that's a big thing. I think if we go into this with the wrong expectations, we can be beat down quickly, get depressed by it and quit. That will not lead to getting hunting permission. You got to go into this knowing it's going to be ninety six percent nos. And every time you get one of those nose, rather than looking at that as ah, crap, this sucks. I got another no. I would encourage you to instead, every time you get a no, think to yourself,

all right, I'm one step closer to that. Yes, because I've checked another no off the list. We're getting closer. We're getting closer. So actually that's good news because you are closer to what you want. Keep that in mind throughout this process. Number two and again, this is something that Spencer brings up, and Spencer uses this to his

advantage as well. But I want to kind of sign off on it, I guess as someone who agrees with him, And that is the fact that you know you should always be looking for hunting permission, and by that I mean, like, have this thing going on in the back of your mind in which you are always lighting up and paying attention when you happen to hear of an opportunity, when you happen to hear someone who owns land, When you happen to hear someone who has a great aunt who

lives on eighty acres, When you happen to hear of a cowork who mentions the fact that they grew up on a family farm. But you know now nobody goes back there anymore. When you hear anything like that, when you hear that your neighbor just bought a new house on ten acres, and you know they don't hunt anytime there's that possibility, Like you hear of land and it sounds like, well, maybe it's not getting hunted, or maybe you just don't know. It's worth asking, It's worth having

those conversations. It's always worth throwing it out there. You know. Let's say your buddy, like as just said, buddy buys a new house, it's on ten acres, it's back in the woods. He talks about. Man, it's awesome. You know, been seeing deer behind the house, YadA, YadA, YadA, And then all of a sudden you're thinking, Hm, ten acres, that's not nothing. He doesn't hunt, can't hurt. Hey, man, you know you know I'm in a hunting I lost

two spots this past year. What do you think about me ever going out there and bow hunting, you know, a few weekends. If you do those little things, if you ask those questions throughout a year to lots of different people in natural ways when they naturally come up, if you're asking, if you're constantly asking around, if your aunts and uncles and grandparents and buddies all know that you're always asking for folks like, hey, is there maybe

a chance I could hunt there? If they all know that, then when opportunities do arise, when your aunt here's from her friend, like, oh yeah, I used to have guys a hunt of my spot, but they they were jerks and I kicked them off. All of a sudden, your aunt's going to know, well, I know that Joe is always looking for places, and that sounds like this place is open. I should get a hold of my nephew Joe and let them know, Like, make sure the world

knows of your intent and your interest. If you do that, it's amazing how the world will present you opportunities. All right, So those are two big things I want you to think about. This is a numbers game, and you always need to be like sending out your hopes and desires when it comes to hunting access because you never know when it's going to work. Like you're throwing spaghetti at the wall, and you never know when it's going to stick or what's going to stick. But nothing will stick

if you're not constant only throwing spaghetti. All right, So there's your unique permissions analogy of the day. Finally, I would suggest you think about ways that you can provide value to landowners because right we know that landowners can provide us value because we don't own land and we're looking to use their land. So they have something we want. What do we have that they might want? What can

we provide? How can we give back to them, because as I mentioned earlier, we're asking a lot of them, it's reasonable to think that they might ask something of us. My buddy Doug Duran has a great program and a great example of one way to think about this. So Doug has started this thing called Sharing the Land, in which he is trying to connect landowners who have work that they want done, conservation work, habitat work, farm projects

that they need done on their land. He wants to connect people like that who have a demand for help with access seekers, hunters, or anybody else who wants access to private land to hunt or bird or fish or

something like that. He's got those people who need land and who have able bodies and the willingness to help, and he's trying to help connect these folks and find ways that we can find win win situations where you know, somebody who wants permission to hunt can go and be connected with a landowner, and this landowner needs help tear down fences or planting cover crops or removing invasive species,

something like that. He needs workers, he needs helpers, and then you can find this hunter who wants to hunt their land in exchange for doing some of that work, for putting in an investment of conservation effort. By helping out in the landscape, you then get access to hunt. It really cool program. You can learn more about it at Sharingthland dot com. But you know, if the pieces of permission that Doug has listed on his site, which

he does have you know landowners who are looking for people. Now, if there's not something there in your area, think about taking that same concept and that same idea and applying it wherever you live. So think about people maybe that you know, maybe you do know some farmers who need some help, or who you know are pressed for time, or who you know have talked about this problem and that problem and this project they wish they could get to.

Why don't you offer up your services. Why don't you say, Hey, you know, I've been doing a lot of work on I don't know, understanding soil health, or I've been I don't know as a landscaper in high school or college. I'm pretty good at digging holes. Whatever it is that you can offer up, offer to help, offer to do work on the farm, offer to take something off their plate that they don't want on there, and demonstrate that

you can bring value to the table. If you can do that, you are much more likely to be able to get hunting access and permission. And I think you'll be more invested in the process too, and maybe even appreciate it all that much more. That is my final thought here. I will give you a couple more suggestions if you want to dive deeper into this topic of

gaining and finding hunting access. Number one, you can go back and listen to last week's episode in which we focused on the kind of pay to hunt way, which is hunting lease hate and we love them. They are a thing now that are becoming more and more of an option people are turning to, and I want to make sure we'd talk about how to do that the smartest way. So that's a discussion you might want to

go listen to. We also have a lot of articles on the Mediator website about this topic, and I want to give you three specific examples that you can go look up now and read if you want more reading. So we've got one from Tony called why Spring is the best time to get deer hunting permission. You can go search that title and find that and read it. Another one by me just titled how to find hunting

permission that breaks down my personal process. Another one by Tony called tips for finding a fresh white tail hunting spot right now. So check those three out if you want more on this topic. But before we do anything like that, before any googling or searching or heading on

over to your web browser. Right now, we have a very thorough, in depth discussion about how to gain deer hunting permission in twenty twenty four and in these changing times moving forward, and my guest Spencer Newhart is gonna help us take it from here. All right back with me again for the first time I think since he walked out on me, like like a groom left at the left at the aisle by the bride, just walked right out of my life. Spencer Newhart, Welcome back to the show, buddy.

is a common thing. This is not news to anyone. People have been talking about this and complaining about this for quite a while. But today I want to specifically focus on permission, like free permission. We've talked about leases, We've talked about some other things, but today it's it's can you still get free permission? Which it seems like some people are starting to say no, like that's a relic of the past, or at least a lot of folks are starting to not want to do the things

maybe that required to get that. But you're a guy that I know who still seems to be, you know, riding that horse. So I guess I wanted to press you on some details around that today. Are you gamed for that? Yeah?

but I've never been a big fan of it. Yeah, but I see you like, you know, run random place in Wyoming and you've got half a day and boom, you've got a spot. So so that's why you're here. That's why I want to talk.

I grew up. And the place is that I had always deer hunted, did not have turkeys, And so when I was interested in turkey hunting. I sort of had to strike out on my own and find places to hunt. And I guess that was the genesis of me knocking on doors, calling landowners, sending letters, was trying to find places to turkey hunt, and so that started, I don't know, probably when I was like a junior in high school,

and then when I went off to college. I went to college, I was a little over an hour away from home, and I still wanted to be able to hunt weekdays, and it was a place that didn't have hardly any public land. And so there again that was like the next chapter. Okay, now I need to find hunting permissions for deer because I'd like to hunt on a Wednesday and I don't want to drive an hour back home. So that that was the beginning of it for me.

And if I did have to talk to a stranger, that was typically unsuccessful and and a thing that I had to like hype myself up for a lot, and often that wasn't enough either for for it to be like easy for me to go ask somebody for permission. So the early days were much tougher. And I've now realized as I've gotten older that hey, worst case scenario is they're gonna say no, and that's okay, and that

happens a lot, and then you just move on. It's it's never been the case, like on when you were hunting in what was at Washington, d C. Where the cops were called. That's unusual that that doesn't happen. You know, you might envision that the worst case scenario is that, but the reality is it isn't. They're typically pretty pleasant or they're not unpleasant experiences. And again they might say no, but that's.

don't happen all that often, I guess. And I feel like I've contacted quite literally hundreds of landowners over the year, and and you know, when it goes bad, it's not all that bad. Yeah, I guess worst case scenario, nothing nothing comes to mind for me.

like too many people asking for too much permission. So for most of them, he would lead, or I would we take turns, and so on this house he led, and he in particular had a belief, and there might be truth to this that the more sketchy a looking house it is, the better chance you have of getting

permission on the farm. Right, Because if you go to like a really fancy, very expensive home and they've got one hundred acres and you know, knock on that door, like for sure they bought the place because they want to use it for themselves or whatever. But you might be able to find like that very rundown, middle of nowhere place where you know they're very okay with whatever. You know they're okay with it. They don't have a

bunch of people already there. They didn't buy this place specifically because they wanted to kill huge giant bucks whatever they've just been there. So his angle was like, we seek out that kind of place. And so I just remember this one particular place like it was you know, like missing windows, hadn't been painted in forty years. There's every old tractor, every old car, every old bicycle that this family had owned for fifty years in the lawn,

goes up to the front door. A gentleman opens the door in his underwear still and like a very stained wife beater. And then my buddy, he asked him into his house, and so you can't say no to that. Yeah, So then he goes into the house and I can't see what's going on anymore. And so I'm sitting there saying, okay, like it looked like, you know, just like it just kind of looked like the beginning of like one of those movies where someone doesn't come out of the house.

just check on the situation. So I just remember for twenty minutes stressing about like what's going on, and then finally, right before I was about to go and get in there, they came back out and then I wasn't. I was waved in, and then you know, from there it was fine. But you just find yourself in all sorts of kind of interesting or awkward or strange situations. When did you get permission? We did not get permission?

are going to go. And I've always thought you never rush yourself thought of it sure, Like one thing I've learned over the years is like, if they want to chat, let them chat. Be polite, be respectful, Like you push yourself on them in the first place, you know, don't be rude pushing yourself out, and then at the same time,

you never know what might happen. Like I've had situations where they say no it first, but then they just keep talking and keep talking and they get to know you a little bit more, and you're there an hour and you've told them your life story and they've told you their life story, and by the end of it, they're like, oh, you know what, Yeah, sure you could hunt yep. So that's all a long winded way of getting to what I really wanted to ask you about, Spencer,

which is you've been through the ringer. You've done it for many years since high school. Where have you landed? I think I know, But where have you landed as far as what you think is your preferred mode now of getting permission?

most indirect, which would be probably letter writing. I send Facebook messages to folks if I can find a landowner on Facebook. Those things have worked out for me, but at a lower rate than face to face. And then somewhere in between there would be making a phone call. That that's, you know, between face to face and between sending a digital message or a or a physical letter would be a phone call. So if if I'm local to the area, I prefer to go talk to them.

If that's not the case, I prefer to call them on the phone. And in other situations I will send

them a Facebook message. And then in like very specific examples, I will shotgun out a bunch of letters to people to which you know, I feel like the last time I did that was a couple of years ago here in Montana, and I think I sent out it was like one hundred and eleven or one hundred and eighteen letters something like that, and I think of that one eighteen, I had gotten three permissions where I got access to hunt something, and I feel like I only heard back

from probably like ten to twenty people. And then the other you know, that leaves about one hundred letters that were just totally unanswered. And that's fine. And there's like pros and cons to any approach. And the pro to that was I could contact a ton of people at once. The con was that I was likely never going to hear back. But it's just it's just one approach. I don't put all my eggs in one Pacific basket, but prefer face to face. But I'll try anything, all.

in a year. Yeh, what was the lift? Like how long does it take you to send out one hundred and eighteen letters? Are we talking like hours and hours or days and days and days or is this like I put in four hours and I got three new properties.

writing the addresses down is another thing. Maybe at this point with like AI, there's a quicker way to do this, and you could like mass produce some letterhead with the addresses on it. You know as of like three years ago that that wasn't the case for me. And so you're spending a ton of hours just finding one hundred and eighteen properties, and then you're spending a lot of

hours like writing somebody's address on a letter. Actually writing the letter that probably took me a couple hours as well. And this that was the approach I took. They were they weren't specific to landowners. In fact, I heard back from a landowner who said that he didn't like how he knew it was very impersonal because I started off with dear landowner, which he had correctly identified that I was reaching out to a ton of folks, and and

he didn't like that. And and you know, not that I would have gotten permission if I would have put like dear mark on it, but you know, that lowered my odds as well, not making them personalized. And so I think if I were to do it again, I would probably go to a smaller list of landowners and make them more personalized. I think that would of my odds.

But as far as the the input into the thing, it's yeah, days of work to identify the properties, hours of work to address the envelopes, and then it's it's very quick beyond that to add the stamps and drop them off to the post office. But it's again, it's a thing you can do, like from your kitchen table at home, which makes it valuable in its own way.

And I look back on that now and I'm like, well, duh, you know, if it looked that good, if it was a manicured property, other folks who are already hunting it either for themselves or or they have a neighbor or

a nephew or a cousin, whatever that may be. So I'd lower my like criteria for a good deer property if you were to grade them A, B, C, D. I'm almost never sending out letters for a's you know, B is more rare, But most commonly I'm looking for properties that you would say, this is like a sea on a school grading scale for how good it might be for deer hunting, because I think less folks are then asking that person hunt, it's less likely that they

hunt it themselves, and that's good for you if you're looking for permission. The other thing is this is something that's become more popular for me because I live in a place that does have a lot of public land. Probably like thirty or forty percent of the time, I'm asking a landowner if I can use their property to backdoor a piece of public land that is otherwise very difficult to get into. And I've had a lot of

success with that. It's a much lower ask for them, you know, and I make it very clear they're like, I'm not asking to hunt your place. I would just be crossing your property on foot to get to the public land that I am looking to hunt. And I've even had like those situations turned into yeah, and if you'd like to, you can also hunt on my side

of the fence. So that's that's the other thing. Sometimes it's it's less about looking for the piece of private land that you want to hunt and more about finding the piece of private land that gets you to a good piece of public land that others don't have access to.

So that's that's you know, my evolution of asking for permissions are looking for sea properties and looking for properties that get me access to a piece of public And then the other thing is if I do get a yes from a landowner, that is very powerful locally forgetting

other permissions. I've had that that snowball a lot. I had this happen in Wyoming where I went and asked the landowner to hunt, and he had a few thousand acres and then he said, well, my brother also owns, you know, the neighboring farm, and you can hunt that place. And so immediately I unlocked, you know, a couple more properties that way. And then I go talk to that person's neighbor and I say, hey, you know, I'm around

here for a few days. I'm deer hunting. I'm from Montana, and I actually got permission from your neighbor, Mark Kenyon, to let me hunt, and I was wondering if I could haunt your place as well. And that is sort of me telling that landowner that their neighbor feels comfortable with me being on their land, and and that like really helps my success. You're significantly more likely to get permission on a neighbor's land if their neighbor has also let you hunt, and so that becomes like an all

hands on deck situation for me. If if I get permission out of place, I'm now bugging all the neighbors and whatever else is local. If I think that that landowner's name is going to be recognized when I talk to that.

mentioned I was just talking to Bob. Bob mentioned I should come, you know, check in with you about YadA YadA, YadA YadA, and so kind of implicitly there's a little bit of a connection there too, Like anytime I feel like you can make it seem like you will have a connection to the community or like some kind of reason to be there. Like if if I'm doing this locally, I'm like, hey, I live down on X Street. Can

I YadA YadA YadA? Or I know my buddy Ross lives and hunts down on one hundred and fifteenth Street or whatever? Can I Like I always lead with anything, I kind of connect me to some kind of reference point. I guess what I'm looking for here, and that seems to help some Yeah.

that in some cases that makes people more uncomfortable. I've I've lost permission on like a farm in Wyoming to haunt because we were filming one week in November one time, and I had to get them to sign a film release to allow us to like film on their piece of land, which is something we have to go through for we're filming a hunt rights, whether it's on public land or private land, we have to have film releases side. And those are kind of intimidating documents, right, They're like

six pages, and it's it's a big land. It's a big ask for that landowner. And so there was one property where I used to have permission when I wasn't filming, and then we came there to film one week in November one time, and I lost permission to hunt that place because it made them very uneasy having a cameraman around. And so I don't. I don't tell folks what I

do at all. That would be different. I think if you had a more admirable career, if you were a teacher or in the military, or if you were a first responder, tell folks that that that you do that thing. I think that would up be odds of getting permission. So anyway, I tell folks who I am, I say where I live. When it comes to saying where I live, Uh, Bozeman has a certain reputation, So I don't say Boseman. We have like a sleeper community outside of Bozeman called Belgrade.

I say I'm from Belgrade, Montana, and people won't recognize that name, which is good in this case. Then they assume it. It's like a small, uh, you know, a small community. But Bozeman has a different reputation. That is, if someone has like thoughts about that place, uh, you know, they're probably negative. And so I don't say I'm from Bozeman. And again, if if you're I would think about that too. Probably every state, you know, certain communities have reputations. Certain

license plates have reputations. I lived in the biggest city in South Dakota for a little while, that was Sue Falls, and those people have license plates that have a one on them, right. And you know, whenever you're out hunting and you see somebody with a one license plate. So you're like, you know that damn person or whatever. Yeah, exactly, and you know it means nothing, but it does to some people. And say I don't. I wouldn't say I'm

from Sioux Falls. I would say I grew up in a small town called Menno, And so I'd think about that. How you're presenting you know, where you live, what your career is. I think if you have children who are interested in hunting, I think that's very powerful. I don't, but if I did, if I had, you know, you know, my twelve year old this year is hoping to get his first year. I think that would make a landowner far more willing to let you hunt. So I'll tell folks,

tell folks who I am. I'll then explain, you know, why I'm reaching out to this person, because you never get letters from strangers anymore, at least I don't, and so you know, it's already kind of a unique experience that they're getting a letter. And I'll tell them, you know, I'm a deer hunter from Montana and I'd love to come hunt this place this year. I actually drew a tag. I'll tell them, you know, when I plan to be there and like for how many days. I think that's

very important. There's a difference in asking for hunting permission for an entire season, which you know, if it's archery, uh, that's like three months in some states. But if I say I'm going to be there for this four day window, uh, that's a very different ask than just asking for hunting experience or hunting permission in general. I'll say that, you know, I'm a very respectful hunter. I'm willing to provide like land owner references if they're interested, which I think is

a a good message to send. But I've never had anybody take me up on that in my entire life. It's sort of an empty gesture. I would totally do it if someone's like, yeah, you know, if you could, you know, give me a few landowners who whose ground you've hunted before. But I think it's signaling to them that that I am like comfortable, or that that I've hunted private property in the past and I haven't had, you know, bad experiences, And I'm willing to let you

talk to folks who would back that up. And so yeah, I explain who I am, I explain why I'm sending them this letter. I try to again explain more about you know, my values and tell them that I will provide references if they would like that. I'm usually I don't think my letters message like send this message as well, but in in person or on the phone, you know, I tell them that, like it's a beautiful p like is it deer hunter? You know, I would be stoked

to haunt this place. And and you know, growing up around of a lot of landowners in a farming community, I don't think often they're told that like, uh, you know, this cornfield is a beautiful property, but in my eyes it is I'm not lying when I say that, that's you know, that's how I do feel about it. Yeah, and then and then I thank them for their time and and uh yeah, I try to keep it, keep it one page.

direct about which one it is, when it's you know, this many acres off this road, it just like invites some confusion off the bat. So in that case, yeah, it's a lot more personal.

There's there's a lot of coordinating that goes on. So I can you know, shake their hand in person and and maybe get a lay of the land if there happens to be something confusing with with boundaries or whatever. But I I sort of, you know, leave it up to them. I I I will love to meet in person, but some landowners are are so you know, comfortable at that point that they're like, uh okay, yeah, uh you know,

whenever you want to be okay, it sounds good. Another thing when I am identifying properties, something I just thought of that I do a lot is I look for absentee landowners and so if I am if I'm hunting in Wyoming, it is a huge bonus for me if they have an OT of state address. I feel like I've had more luck in those scenarios because I think those people tend to be harder to track down, especially if you're there in person, and and because my preference

is to knock on their door. Those are a lot of cases where if the landowner lives in Iowa but their property is in Montana, you know, this is one of the only ways to reach them, and so I think there's less folks bugging them for hunting permission in that case. So I really like targeting absentee landowners.

be harder to get a hold of. So yeah, I hope that their home is on the property and that makes it much easier to get a hold of them.

hunting for the next three days. And again I think it's very important to like lay out your timeline because saying that you're there for the next three days and hunting is very different than just asking for three months worth of permission. So I say, you know, I'm here for the next three days deer hunting, and you know your place looks like you would probably have some deer. And I was wondering if if you let people hunt it all, and if so, if I could uh have

hunting permission? I don't. I don't think I have a you know, something that's like memorized like I'm an actor, but it's it's close to you know what I just delivered to you there.

I think it is it's so much less intimidating when I tell them it's just me, it's not me and my buddy, it's not me, and like a party of three other guys. And so I think that's also important. They can see my truck, they know what my truck looks like at that moment that you know, they'll have an easier time identifying, you know, like who this stranger is on their property. So I think it's I think

it's all those factors together. And and it's just, you know, harder to give somebody bad news in person, which is ultimately what they're doing. Right, Like I'm I'm looking for a yes, and it's you know, harder for them to tell me no. And a lot of times, you know, you can like sort of sense that dread from that landowner you're talking to. They're like, oh, I'm really sorry, but actually and then they'll you know, provide whatever. Uh,

you know, their their valid excuses. And so I think it's all those factors baked it bake into you know that it really ups your odds if you're there face to face.

things that have worked. Do you have any other little tricks or angles or like best practices that have kind of helped you above and beyond what we've talked about.

and I don't think it. I don't think it does either.

prices or whatever, that's to my benefit. And I think that, you know, makes them more comfortable with the whole situation that I'm not going to like ruin their fence or do something totally idiotic like that.

use that person's land respectfully. Right, Can you leave us with a few of your best practices for making sure that you maintain a good relationship with the landowner and use their proper their property, respectfully, properly in the ways they want.

that one pasture, there's there's some ruts. So I tell them I'm not going to drive anywhere. Yeah, I think if you know, be be conscious about conditions. One of the worst things you can do is if you are driving around if they have like a dirt road that they themselves are responsible for maintaining, Uh, don't drive down it when it's muddy or something like that. You're going to create ruts that are a problem. Then as soon as that drives and until like the landowner comes through

and fixes that. So yeah, I think foot traffic is very important to these people. So know that you know you're you're still going to be walking, yeah, being by yourself. I think if you can be specific about where you know you'd like to hunt, or what part of the property you're interested in, Uh, that'll lease their mind about shooting one of their horses or their cattle or something like that.

And my plan for Idaho is to knock on a lot of doors and and get permissions because.

that'd be a totally different story. And I don't. I've never asked for elk hunting permission anywhere because I think, you know, that'd be the equivalent of asking for white tail hunting permission in like northern Missouri or southern Iowa. It's just significantly less likely to happen in a place where the white tails held to a very high regard. And so that's you know why I love hunting white

tails out here. You're just generally dealing with folks who don't give a crap, And you'll often hear the the line that's like, uh, sure, but you know you can only haunt if you shoot five of them or something like that, just because it's in some cases it's uh, their stance on white tails is not only neutral but it's negative like, yeah, you know, they're they're driving out the mule deer, they're eating all my hay bales or whatever, and so that's you know, I think for the listeners,

know that that should be the lens you see it through. And I'm when I'm giving this advice is I'm I'm often getting a enormous head start by seeking white tail hunting permission in the places that I do.

permission when I lived in Illinois. So the advice that I'm giving has worked for left of the Missouri River, but it's probably less likely to work on the right side. But you know, there's certainly things that that you can do that would be very specific to your region to work in it. I think the last thing I would say is, you know, I feel like in the business world they say like always be networking or whatever. That's

how I am with hunting permissions. When I'm at a wedding and you know, the small talk starts with a stranger, I'm always like trying to feel them out for if they own land or not. If I'm at a bar and I belly up next to somebody who you know, start talking to, I'm always always looking for hunting permission, and so I think that's something to do no matter what part of the country you live in.

one out of one hundred times to the east. So it's just a matter of like you just have to have a larger sample size when you're trying to do it out here. Yep. But I think it's really really good advice. So I appreciate you sharing this, Spencer, and I do want to give you a chance. Do you want to plug any specific trivia episodes? Is there anything fun coming up in the trivia world the game anything else? Can you plug something coming on the game game yet.

not exclusively for the kitchen table. It can go wherever you go. And our products coming out this year will also reflect that.

And you know, in my case, I don't have to fake it because I am stoked and I do appreciate you know, the opportunity they've given me, and make it very clear that like you are thrilled to haunt this place and you're very thankful, and it'd be like, you know, if you were a guest on a podcast and you were like, man, market was a pleasure, This was so much fun. Thank you. You've got a beautiful show here. Yeah,

I had you know the time of my life. I really appreciate you lending me a be a guest here, and yeah, next time I would love to do this again, if you'd allow me to hunt again in the future, be a guest and again in the future, you know, would mean the world to me.