Ep. 720: Secrets to Success for the Second Half of November and Late Season with Steve Bartylla

CAMO for Conservation Initiative. Hopeing you're familiar with this, but if not, you should know that a portion of every sale of first Light spector Camo goes back to the National Deer Association to help with their to make things better for deer and deer hunters, which is pretty darn cool. And what else is pretty darn cool is the fact that today we have a terrific guest. We have one of my favorite guests that we've ever had on the show, and this is Steve Bartilla. He's someone who has been

on over the years. He brings a wealth of knowledge to the table. He is a very very experienced deer hunter. Land manager and consultant and writer. He's appeared in the pages of many deer hunting magazines. I'm sure you've read his work, and he's a great communicator. He's fun to listen to, and he really knows what he's talking about. And today the topic we're tackling is how to find success in the second half of the season, because that's

kind of where we're at. I always look at November fifteenth as that middle point, that's like the halftime of the season, and as me and Steve discuss, there's sometimes a certain amount of pressure that comes with them. I kind of feel like once November fifteen hits, man, it's different after that. And that's especially so here where I live in Michigan because opening they have gun season is

November fifteenth. But I think even if you're in a different state without that gun season, things just feel different back half of November, back half of the fall. And so what I wanted to have Steve help us discuss is what exactly does that mean? Is it all downhill from here? Are our best chances all in the rear view mirror? Should we be as stressed as maybe we are right now or not? Are there still some good things coming. I believe there are still some good things coming,

and that's what we talk about. We break down a whole bunch of different, very specific ideas Steve has for hunting the two last weeks in November. So if you are listening to this right when it drops on November sixteenth, we're going to talk through specific things for the next week, some other ideas for the last week in November, and then a whole bunch about general late season hunting. What

to do once December rolls around. How can we make the most of these final weeks and months of the season. It's a good one, lots to share. Steve brings a lot to the table, and I guess the one other thing I would say is the mental side of things. It might be the hardest at this point of the year, because if you're like me, you've been going at it

pretty hard. Maybe your season started in September and maybe you're hunting all through October chasing that deer or trying to get any deer, and maybe you've pushed into November and you grind. You were grinding through the first week or two. You had some all day sits, maybe a lot of all day sits. Maybe you've had some opportunities, but maybe not. And even in my case where I've got a few deer on the ground, I still feel this.

I don't know, this weight that comes with this time of the year, this telling me like, man, you're war out, but at the same time, you gotta keep trying, like there's still season ahead, there's still opportunity ahead, There's still the opportunity for redemption.

the stress. I think that is a particularly important thing for a lot of us to think about at this time of year, because it's easy to get worried at this time of the year if you don't have a tag field, or if you had a miss or a wound or something go wrong. It's easy to feel when November fifteenth hits the sixteenth, or Thanksgiving, like, man, it's all done, I screwed it up, or my chances are gone, or now I'm go'n have to wait till next year. And that's just not true. But it's hard not to

let that seep into the back of your mind. So my thoughts for you, in a very long winded way, as I tend to do, is try to keep that fun in it, try to keep the faith, try to keep going, and maybe take a few days off, maybe

take a week off, whatever it is. Do whatever you need to do to get your head right, to physically feel right again, spend some time with family, get those important things in a good place, and then once you're feeling back at it as a normal person, then you can step back into the woods feeling refreshed, and I think it's easier to enjoy it again. It's easier to, you know, fully embrace everything, the good and the bad

that happens in the woods. But if you're coming off of two weeks of hunting NonStop, or a weak ructation or whatever, it was that you were able to do this year. If you're coming off of all that, you are probably worn down. You are probably beaten down to a pulp. I know I am whooped right now. I'm physically and mentally whooped, and I needed today. So today I took the day off and I took my kids to school, and I'm gonna pick them up from school

and I'm gonna spend some time with them. I'm taking a day here in the middle of November to reset, to regroup, and then I think once I get back after it here, I'm gonna feel better about things. And as Steve and I discussed, there's good reason to feel better because deer are still doing ruddy things in the back half of November. Even if you've got a gun season going on, you can still find those pockets where deer feels safe and where they're still breeding, where they're

still chasing, seeking, desperately trying to find a doll. All that good stuff that you were excited about on November one or November seventh, it's still possible if you know the right way to approach it. So, without any further ado, I want to get to Steve Bartilla talking about second half of November, deer hunting strategies and how to keep the good times rolling in December and beyond. Here we go, all right here with me now on the line, a

returning guest, a fan favorite. We've got Steve Bartilla. Steve, thank you so much for doing this it.

neither of us are here without that. I know I'm preaching to the choir when I'm saying that to you as well.

right into today's topic. And today's topic, Steve, is the second half of the season, second half of November, and the second half of the year in general, because when this podcast comes out, it will be November sixteenth, I believe, And when that day hits I don't know how you feel, Steve, but when I see that calendar switch from the fifteenth to the sixteenth, it feels like something has changed. We've

passed the halfway mark of November. It kind of feels like we've passed the halfway point of the hunting season. And usually when I get there, I start feeling a different kind of pressure. Maybe it feels like there's a lot behind us, and sometimes it kind of feels like the best is behind us, or at least a lot of folks feel that way. And my first question for you, Steve, is is that how you feel. How do you feel about the second half of the season. Does it feel

like the best is behind us? Or are you still really excited about our chances move forward.

got the chase phase. Then you've got breeding. And when I hear October, when I hear November fifteen sixteenth, I'm thinking, Okay, we are right right at the very end of the breeding phase, and man, a whole bunch of these animals are going to be locked down. To me, November fifteenth means that we're pretty much right at that we're looking at. It's going to very unware you're hunting, of course, but

we're in the Upper Midwest where I hunt. On November fifteenth, what I'm looking at is Okay, we're about at the end of lockdown, and that means that we actually have an exciting little period coming up here. And I know everybody in the world out there talks about the rock. I mean, geez, during breeding, you got all these bucks running around. They're showing up from anywhere. But I'm sorry,

I don't experience that much during the rut. Is there any shifting around and all that type of stuff, Sure, but I don't have all these It's very rare that on November eighth, I'm sitting in a tree stand on the grounds I manage for clients, that I'm sitting in a tree stand and oh, here comes a buck I've never seen before. No that small properties on your twenty acre property, on your forty heck a two forty. Stuff like that happens quite a bit on the stupid big grounds.

You see shifting within that ground. But i'llthing, what these bucks every You can never say always and you can never say never when it comes to mature buck behavior. We are talking mere tendencies, but it is pretty dang unicornish rare for me to pick up a mature buck during the rut that I don't have pictures that I

didn't know existed before. But you get to this window right after this airs, and man, the game just changed, and I don't I can't swear what I'm about to say is true, but based on my own antecdotal data and research, what I'm pretty sure ends up happening is that mature buck he knows this area here, He knows every day thing that's going on in this area, and he doesn't want to leave it until all of a sudden there are no more pretty girls that are interested

in him at all within that area. But he knows that there's still going to be those fonts, those dolphonts that are coming into estras. Yet there may end up being a late faunt. I am sorry, I don't buy this hole. All these doughs skipped. No numbing buck can successfully breed a dough these. I don't care how whacked your sex ratios are, you don't have a whole bunch

of these does not getting bred. What you do have those a few of them aren't going to take and you've got all those do fonts that once they reach certain physical and physiological thresholds, in other words, once they get this bag. Now now they come into Astris as well. You can't actually peg exactly when that's going to occur because it's based on the health of the dough. It's

based on when that fawn was born. It was based on the quality of habitat that dough had access to for the amount of milk she was able to produce for that fawn. Trivial side note, quality of forge has nothing to do with quality of milk. The quality of milk is going to be the exact same no matter what they're eating, but the quantity, the quantity is impacted tremendously by the quality of forge that doze eating. So if that do is eating just primo stuff all summer long,

she's pumping that milk to that fawn. That fawn was born perfect time though, massive, overwhelming majority of those fawns are going to come into Estris, But we don't know exactly when it's most likely going to happen. Sometime between November about fifteenth to early January. But those mature bucks understand that they're still breeding out opportunities out there to be had, there's none here. So that's when I tend

to start picking up these roamas. And what I'll do, a very very effective, very effective tactic for myself, is go ahead and hunt those prime well defined, prime family group bedding areas in the mornings, those ones that have a surplus of healthy dose why because they tend to have a surplus of healthy funds. Then the afternoons. Quite honestly,

I just hunt food. Your mature buck, after he gets through the rut, on average, is going to have dropped twenty five to thirty percent body weight, and now in the Midwest and points north, facing their most stressful period of the entire year, their food as far as food supply goes, this is their weak point. The overwhelming majority of these animals are actually running a negative energy balance over winter in the Midwestern points North, meaning they burn

more calories and they're able to get out of their food. Okay, that makes prime food sources a heck of a draw come mid November all the way on through the end of the season and winter as well. Obviously, so when you really add all this stuff up together, when it comes to late season, you can't have the perfect storm. You have the most limited food sources of the entire

year for your Midwestern and northern year. Side note for our southern friends, that happens to be in the middle of summer drows in the very dry and aired regions, and mister Begas went ahead and dropped that twenty five to thirty percent body weight, running that negative energy balance, and oh the temperature the snows, all that stuff is

further sapping energy from it. You add all that type of stuff up, and I'll tell you what those food sources the best food sources in the area, especially if they're somewhat near thermal cover that these deer are attracted to, although a primo food source will knew it all by itself. Those are great places to hunt in the afternoons. They're not bad places to hunt in the mornings either, and they're not bad at all. The problem, though, is everything is a balancing act in the stuff you go in

in the mornings. Do you have a chance to kill that buck you're after? Sure you do, But what dear doing during the middle of the nights More often than not, they're either feeding on their primary food sources or they're bedded around their primary food sources regurgitating their cut. So if you can get in, if you can get in hunt that food source in the morning, hey, as long as you can get in, hunt it, get out without those deer seeing, smelling, or hearing you perceptions every bit's

reality for whitetails as it is for humans. It is if we were not even there. Okay, but those situations are pretty rare most often most people, especially unless they've done some habitat improvement work. That's where habitat improvement work can really help you. You manufacture the setups you want. But if you haven't done that, coming up with a way to hunt that food in the morning late season is pretty darn tough. We can get away with that

type of stuff a lot more during the rut. Why simply because that buck has got breeding on his mind, does he throw away all rules? Heck no, he does not. But he is very, very focused on breeding activity. You get to this time of year I'm talking at talking later November, December, January, he is more than happy to take advantage of breeding opportunities, but he tends not to put anywhere near the effort into it, because he's already been ranged, ran through the ringer, and there's not that

many more opportunities left. And always remember that mature buck, this is not his first rodeo. He's done this year after year he's had an opportunity to learn. So, hmmm, where are most of the estras douphons gonna be on December third? A half hour before dark? You know what? That's where I want to be too, and that happens to before. So that's that's generally how I see right now.

I see it quite honestly as Okay, we're in the tail end of the peep breeding phase and then we get a nice little window in here where even the immature bucks are tending to do a little bit of running right after most of those doors have been bred. Okay, but your mature bucks are they running as hard? No? But now they, if anything, it seems like they get a little desperation to them. They want They know that there's a couple opportunities left, and gosh, Darren, and I'm

gonna score one of them. Yeah, So that's kind of more or less how I see this time year. If that is a long enough answer to a simple question.

that wonderfully. So that brings me though to the second part, which is, Okay, if what you're telling me is the case, which is like, hey, there are still great opportunities ahead, and there are absolutely things that we can key in on, and there are still vulnerabilities with these deer, the next question then has to be, well, okay, given all of that, you know, how should I as a hunter be taking

advantage of those things? And I'm curious for this for the second part of November, Steve, if you will, if you will humor me on this, I'd like to break it down week by week because I think November is special, right, and there's still people that have some vacation or they can get out around the holidays or different things like that. So there's there's this rapid series of things that happen throughout the month of November. It seems like the changes

are happening day by day. So for the time period from November fifteenth to November twenty second, like if we just look at that week, could you tell me what your approach would be during that week as we're kind of, as you mentioned, we're coming off of that lockdown or we're in that lockdown period maybe and we've got you know,

we're ramping into the end. But what would you say you are doing November fifteenth to twenty second, as far as you know, trying to get a tag on a deer at that time, and then after that then I will ask you about the week following that.

one way, shape or form. There's all this. There is a very very old and well known saying that you just can't pattern bucks during the rut. I'm sorry. That is pure and simple alone, and that The first thing you need to do, though, is understand what a pattern is. To me, a pattern, I mean, I don't buy I've heard all sorts of people go on about how they pattern this animal. I'm telling you, if they know as much as they pretend are saying they do about that

animal and everything that animals do. Oh, they are so much better at patterning deer than I ever been in my life. And I spend a lot of time trying to pattern them. When I'm to me, a pattern is nothing more than knowing a minimum of one thing he pends to do during daylight. That doesn't mean he's gonna do it every day. It is very very rare that you have a buck that does the exact same things day after day after day after. What you're looking for

is you're looking for a handful of tendencies. Okay, So if this buck has the tendency to be checking this dough betting area when he's not on a dough, guess what that is a pattern. And of course they're checking that dough betting area, why wouldn't they be. That's where what exactly what they're looking for is residing, and during those midday hours when it comes to the early morning,

the nighttime hours, afternoon hours. You know, when these deer few where the oh it's gonna be he's looking for. They're gonna be on their primary food sources. Where's he

gonna be. He's gonna be checking a primary food source to primary food source to primary food source, unless he happens to run into an extrass dole or gets his butt kicked by somebody who's bigger and stronger, or you mean, like early season, unless the farmer decides to go out and cut wood right by the bucks bedding area that day early season, that buck probably hasn't even going to the same isn't gonna be doing the exact same thing that my point. All sorts of things kick these deer

off their patterns. But I'm telling you what my experience is just purely simply blooney. You sure can pattern bucks during the rut. Frankly, a whole bunch of the bucks off killed over the years have been way more patternable during the rut than they were early season. So that first week, if I'm after a specific buck, I'm hunting him no different than I would have at any other time during the entire year. This is what he's doing. Where can I get into there so that I can

take advantage of this without him knowing. That's what I'm gonna do. If I'm just playing hunting mature box or any buck, I don't have one or two that I'm after now, I'm just hey, I'll take whatever comes through that meets whatever my criteria you are for that day, which I also do quite a bit when it comes to that type of stuff. I'm hunting the same during this one week we're talking about. I'm still hunting those

exact same stands I was on November fourth and fifth. Now, those funnels between dough betting areas, the down one side of the down one side of those betting areas, that prime food source that every dough in the area is hitting at night in the afternoons. You know, I might be set back on a staging plot just fifteen to twenty yards fifty yards into the woods off of that.

So for the moment, if I'm just generically hunting, I'm still hunting the rock just like I mean, go ahead and pick up any magazine out there, and we'll be an Ardle on the rut and it'll be a generic This is how you hunt or that's how I'm hunting the rock. Yeah, I'm hunting to the specific buck.

cruising bucks for the last two days. And you're hearing from all your buddies like a man, sure seems like there's there's gotta be some lockdown. And maybe you saw one buck lockdown with a dough off in the distance, and everything's telling you, like, man, it seems like that's happening. Is there anything unique that you do, Steve when you think that is the case, or is it still exactly the same game plan you just said and you're just waiting for them to break up.

all that good stuff, them not finding them right away. Averages, they're spending about eight hours with them, So that means for that eight hours, yeah, they're taking off the board, but I don't know when that eight hours is, and I don't know when he's going to break loose from there about the there's only two ways that I know that I've had any success at grinding this out, and that is first just grinding it out. Things that he's

gonna break loose. He's gonna come through here again. He still wants to breathe no, but it's just not as fast and furious and as man this is awesome as it is that first week in November, for example, up here. The other thing, the other thing that I mean, this is kind of getting off a little bit of a tangent. But we have this belief that bucks are leading doze or doze are leading bucks around by the nose all

over out in the deer woods during the ruck. I think that is true to an extent up until that, especially when you're talking to mature buck. Up until that mature buck. Okay, she's no longer on the cusp of estris. She's an estress, and he actually has her locked down. When he locks her down, I've seen it way too dang many times to believe any differently. She is no

longer telling him where to go. He is actually taking his times and jamming them in her side when she goes the wrong way, and he is literally forcing her where he wants her. And where does he want her. He wants her out in the middle of that wide open alfalpha field. He wants her up on that huge point that deer have no reason to go all the way to the top of that. He wants her in

places that he can protect her. He doesn't want her wandering around the woods like she normally does, because she is going to attract every single buck out there that smells her. That is not already on a dough. Okay, So if if and this is a huge if, I mean I've been able to pull it off three four times my entire hunting life. If you know where those bucks hand to drive those domes, that is a really good place to be during lockdown. But figuring out that

is where that is is actually the whole key. Now, obviously hunting the middle of that wide open field that at noon you're driving down the highway. You look out there. Holy man, that's one hundred and sixty inch buck out in the middle. Oh, there's a no bed. Buy it now. I'll tell you what. If it's perfectly flat, good luck trying to kill that thing while he's on it. If there's some cover, maybe you can low crawl out there. When I'm actually really those specifically, is those things like

hunting Buffalo County, Wisconsin, You've got some huge relief. And I can guarantee you that there are three spots even though I haven't been I haven't hunted grounds I'm going to talk about right now in ten plus years, I guarantee that I know three spots that breeding occur in this year in Buffalo County. If you can find I mean talking specific within this ten acre area right here, those were bred. If you can find a spot like that, that is a great place to be. The problem is,

is I said, good luck. I don't know how you scout to find where they where they've drive deer except for through observation and scouting cameras and also thinking of Okay, where's the most ridiculous place a buck could be in the world right now? And that might not be a bad place to go check out.

like that. But is there ever a situation where it could actually work to call a buck off of a dough if it's close. Is there ever any kind of other aggressive move you could take or any other tactic that is worth trying at this point, other than just getting as close as possible.

never had that work once. Try grunting at him. He doesn't want to go interact with that other buck right now. He has what he wants. So if anything that buck, grunt tend stuff make him want to go the spit doll over yourself three times fast. What that does is it challenges him. Now he doesn't want to fight, but he may be tricked into believing that, man, I better

throw down right now or this girl's gone. That said, the problem, and a lot of people have noticed when it comes to stuff like this, want to talk about the problems. The problem with that as I said, he already has exactly what he wants. And when you do that and she goes running that other way, guess who's gonna follow her. So I'll tell you what about the only when it comes to this is just a side tangent freedy. When it comes to hunting, heavily pressured you,

whether that's public ground or public private ground. Heck, quite honestly, a lot of outfitters grounds are pressured way more than any public ground never will be but pressured situations. I'll

tell you what. I barely do any calling a rattle andever, the only scenario I ever do is when I am thoroughly convinced that buck is headed that way and I'm never gonna see him again, and he is not coming back naturally under any circumstances, then I'll go ahead and try doing some calling, and you know what when he ends up heading the other way. Because I mean, so

much of this is just common dark sense. Calling and rattling are so you cannot turn on a television show or hunting show, watch hunting channel for three hours and not see somebody doing some calling and rattling and going ahead and oh there's big slob and pretending the only reason they killed it was because of this fancy new call or these great rattling antlers here. Yeah, great, awesome. And I'm not saying that every time that's pure blooney,

but a whole bunch of times. Is The thing of it is, though, is as I said, you do those types of aggressive tactics on a buck that happens to already have what he wants, or one that's really pressured, and you might as well just jump up and down and your standing the screen as you're waving your arms. Hey idiot, look at me. Don't come over here or I'll kill you.

the heck. But the more they hear this type of stuff, it doesn't matter if you're using decoys, it doesn't matter. If we're talking scent, it doesn't matter if we're talking rattling and calling anything that is meant to attract deer. Every single time that it doesn't or it doesn't, it does not work out for the hunter. Theyns of what work and the next time just went down. I mean that to me as I said, that's just common sense. Okay.

So the deeper if you're talking pressure ground, you darn right, the deeper you get in the season, the less I'm doing any of that type of stuff now on Utopia's and I am exceptionally lucky to be able to hunt the utopias that I manage on there that total we ate in Kansas no more. But that's a comple there's

really well. And here's another side note. One of the best things hunters can do when going in to hunt a new situation simply ask themselves how much pressure does this area receive and gauge your tactics, not exclusively, but predominantly on the amount of pressure that area simply receives if it does not, if it does not receive much pressure, I can essentially take two arrows and go like this, And odds are I might odds are not horrible that

I'll rattle in a deer. Non pressured animals are not the same as those that are run through the ringer. That they just aren't. And hunting both of them most every season, no one will convince me any differently. You can get away with so ridiculously much more on stupid deer than you can on deer that are hunted hard. That's just plain reality. And along those lines, anybody who's

listening to this stuff that's hunting pummeled ground. If you're if you're being consistently successful, don't you dare feel inferior to any idiot like me, period Because you're earning any every darn bit of success you're getting, and most idiots, like me, we hunt. You don't be exclusively now I don't, but hopefully what I just got done, I just as we were talking before this, I just got done putting in a really super hard three hours of this season.

I hunting one buck before I was able to kill it. And the first two hours and fifteen minutes we're a throwaway hunt that I was just trying to make sure that I had everything perfect in this situation. Really, I hunted him for forty five minutes. It doesn't I'm not pretending that on Utopia asn't work so like that very often it doesn't. But I'm telling you it is a completely different world that you're seeing on TV than most people are hunting.

if it has that nice defined betting area. A whole bunch of this is another one of the things that I'm guilty is anyone on this talking about hunting the down wind sides of the dough betting. Well, that works great when you happen to have a seedar thicket like this, you know that's going ahead and surrounded by mature woods, or happen to have a meadow like this that's surrounded by mature standupines, whatever. But a lot of times it's

just they bed in this area. When that's the case, what I'm about to describe doesn't work very anywhere near as effectively. What I'm looking for late season in the mornings are the most dominant dough group I can find with the most well defined betting area. With a reasonably well defined betting area, I'm gonna hunt the downwind sides of those in the morning, and if I'm getting good action.

I'm gonna sit there all day day. There's there's a handful of spots in the grounds I've managed over the years that I can bank, I mean literally bank on someday in either that last week in November or sometime during December, that every stink and mature buck in that entire area is going to show up on this camera right here, that's outside of that nobetting area. Why it happens to be an asteris dopon in there that day.

And when you when you are in a stand like that in the morning, yeah, we're not talking peak rut no more. No one's doing all days since during late season unless it happened to be in a situation like that. If you're there and those bucks are active in the morning, you just keep the rule I try to use when morning hunting situations like this is the two hour rule. I ain't gonna leave unless I go at least two

hours without seeing a single buck. If I go two hours without seeing a single buck after eight thirty in

the morning, all right, ten thirty, I'm gonna bail. But a lot of when you hit it right to just I know I'm laboring this point but when you hit it right, when that dofon happens to be an estress, stick it out, because you are going to be in form even more fun hunt than you've had in the peak rupt because there's one, there's one dofont, maybe two in this entire area that happens to be an estress right now, instead of twenty thirty forty in this entire

area that happens to be an estress. When you're dealing one or two, they get a lot of attention. So I'm starting in the mornings by if I'm morning hunting, headed to the down wind side of those dough betting areas during that last week in November, and quite frankly, almost all the way on through seasons. Then in the afternoons headed to the prime food sources because that's where a they need food. Now, they went through that that humongous weight drop, and guess where the dolphins are going

to be half hour before dark? This really I I hate to say this because in some ways it is, but in so many ways the stuff ain't rocket science. Figure out what the heck the buck wants and put yourself there before he goes gets it.

throwing these numbers out for illustration purposes. Of Course, it's easier when there's fifty of them running around there. Well, at this point you don't have that full stock anymore. They've been taken down. Hard studies have shown, though, and

radiotelemetry studies they have flaws that they do. I do think that I can come up with all sorts of flaws in aspects of deer research, because there's so ridiculously many variables, and the scientific equation, which is what should be used to figure this stuff out, demands that what you do is you eliminate every variable you possibly can, and you test it over and over and over and

over and over again. Staying on this tangent for just a second, what we're doing is we're dealing with predominantly antidotal data. And to me, that's like staring out this much of a crack in your curtains while you're sitting on the couch and you see that cat fly by outside. Oh, I wonder what was chasing that cat? And then you see this dog flying by, Oh, obviously it's the dog, never realizing that a half mile down the road is a blazing inferno and they're all running from the fire.

That's what antidodled without eliminating all of those variables. That's essentially antidotal data. We're looking through a window, like a crack in a window like this, trying to interpret this. Yes, oftentimes we're right, but a whole bunch of times we don't see that fire, and we really have we misinterpret our results so easily. But that said, I keep coming back. The telemetry studies show that what mature bucks tend to do again tendencies. There's meaning that we're talking fifty plus one.

That's it, just one more than fifty percent, okay, is a tendency. Okay. The tendency for mature bucks during firearms is not to go ahead abandoningland areas they know and going running over to Gertrude's place a half mile away, because she doesn't allow any hunting that buck. If that's if Gertrudes is not part of that buck's home range, he has no idea whatsoever what's going on over a girt. Gertruths. What they do is they go to where they feel safest.

They lay their butts down during the daylight hours, and they don't move. But what those same telemetry studies and they don't move unless they absolutely have But what those same telemetry studies show is, oh, after about four days, once the Orange army is gone, they pretty much go back to normal. So I'm a hunt and I'm just like I always need.

or about these tendencies that you're referring to. They're looking for some kind of data to make them feel just a little bit better about choosing this dough betting area versus that dough betting area, or picking that funnel versus the other. All of this brings me to something you mentioned a while back, which is trail cameras, which are so insanely useful these days, and even like you said,

maybe too useful when it comes to sell cameras. What I'm wondering is during this time period later November or December, are you changing how you use trail cameras at all, or changing where you place them at this time of year. Is it different than where I had my cameras on November first? Or do you kind of put them out there at some point the season and leave them in these standard areas the entire year, Steve.

to get through. You're ignoring so much valuable information by taking that approach. It's not even funny. Every darn I know this sounds ridiculous, and I'm not saying I'm spending a half hour, right, No, it's but every darn picture you get, where's where are they coming from, where are

they going to? What are they doing now? And just simply trying to analyze those individual pictures you end up getting so much more data than oh there's a buck, there's another one, and then also take it a step further. These things should be helping us, not hurt. To me, an unforgivable sin is when our trail cameras are actually harming our hunting efforts. That seems so pants on heads

stupid to me. It's not even funny. Okay, So you know what, there's all sorts of places that I want INTEL on, and with cell cams, especially if you pick up a chart a solar panel with one. Now you can go ahead and get away with putting that cell cam in there and just leaveing it. You leave it run forever and it keeps it or rather than put it in there. Okay, I have a beautiful staging plot right here that I want INTEL on and a wide open field right here. Do I really need to go

back to that staging plot to get INTEL. No, I can go ahead and place a camera right there where they're working that where they're working that scrape as they come out in the main field and when they're heading from this direction. You know what, I'm pretty darn confident that they just got done visiting my staging plot before

they get there. Think about how you can get intel on the higher impact locations without ever going into most higher impact locations for your can, because unless you're using a cell can, not only do you have to go in there to place the darn thing, now, you got to go in there every darn time you want to swap chips too. And yeah, by putting it on that scrape rather than on that on that staging plot, I'm not gonna get every single buck that goes through that

staging plot. But you know what, I'm gonna get enough of mo that scrape that it's going to give me enough intel to be like, oh hm, I'm getting this buck here every third day on that scrape, I bet she's actually back in that stage in Yerea. Even more than that, maybe now is a really good time to go back there and hunt it, as well as the fact that who knows what other bucks are going through there as well. It's everything to me is a balancing act.

And when I'm talking in this specific case, I want my impact to weigh way heavier than the intel I get because so darn many times you can get intel by nipping at the edges, but I can't get that buck back once I went ahead and scooped him across the road in a neighbors shot. There's nothing I can do about that. So that's that's kind of I hopefully somewhere in there there's the answer. I know I rambled on about all sorts of stuff. I'm just not sure I ever really am.

you continue hunting mornings in December. I thought I heard you say you would hunt mornings to the entire season, but I want to make sure I heard that right.

to habitat improven plans. Man, you go out there and you improve the habitat without having a plan, Good luck, buddy, because odds are really good that you're gonna mess up as much as you help. Now, I need a plan, Okay, do the same thing for hunting, whether I'm talking about us, I've got a plan for hunting season. I've got a plan for hunting each property. I have a plan for

hunting just about each time I'm on that. But I'll tell you what, when there is a mature buck that's literally screaming at me, Hey idiot, all you have to do is come over here and we'll meet each other, I'm gonna listen to it. So I will go ahead, and I will go ahead and make deviations. I will. But the overwhelming majority of the time this time of year,

it's just as simple as I'm describing. And I if I'm gonna go out morning hunting, I'm hunting that doe betting area, because you know what, are as many some of the seasons I hunt just barely trickle into January. Are there anywhere near as many dophons coming into estras on January third? Is there may be on December fourth?

I'd say no, But every year a few of them pop. Then I don't know if one of them is gonna be popping on my ground, but if it is there, I can promise you there's no better place to be on that entire property than hunting where that dopphone, that estress dophon happens to be. But do you otherwise I'm otherwise No, I'm the one who kind of interrupted you there. I apologize, but otherwise otherwise I'll be honest with you. I don't do much more in hunting late season. That's

about it. I will be more than happy during the rut in certain situations to go ahead and hunt more disruptive stands in the morning. But early season and late season, for me, I need to be able to get in. I need to be able to hunt, and I need to be able to get out. I do not want I think we booger, we us hunters do so much more damage to our hunting than we ever realize. And I will go off on a tangent on this just

for a second. Always remember your odors can stay up and out in the woods till well over seventy two hours after you're gone. I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that we educate so ridiculously many deer after we leave than we ever do well. We're in the deer woods simply from the odors that we are leaving behind. So when I'm talking about low impact, I'm saying I need to be able to get in, preferably slipping up

a creek. Now you don't always have a situation like that, but heavens when you do, that's a beautiful thing to do. So you slip up a creek, you jump into that stand that happens to be just off the creek bank, You hunt it with your wind blown back over the creek. Then you get back down, slip out the creek. Situation like that, you can hunt this lot of stands. If they do not see you, if they do not hear you, if they do not smell, your perception is reality. You

were not there to a white tail. But that's the key making sure I can get in, hunt and get out one of the pitifully few places that are good that time of year during morning Now if I happen to know this buck is feeding on this food source and he's better right here, and I can slip in between. Oh heck, yeah, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it.

But mind us some type of very specific intel like that. No, I'm sticking to those no bedding areas because I got those setups so I can't hunt them, and I can get in, I can get out, and that's what he's looking for.

And if we're talking about making the choice of where to hunt on a particular evening, one of those things might be trying to determine what food source are the majority of deer going to key in on on a given night. And something I've thought a lot about, and I've heard different people talk about this, is that sometimes certain conditions might impact what food source is more attractive.

Every bit is good, if not better, Whereas that moisture on the greens tend to As I said, I don't know if what I'm saying is through at all in this case, that they taste like that essentially is toast soaked in water that they're eating. But for whatever reason you and what And here's here's something that a person really needs to qualify all this with, and that is, it doesn't matter how desperately badly that buck may want white waite oak acorns today. If there ain't any white

o't gat good white oak acorns around. He ain't no white oak acorns. So so often it's not, oh geez, this is the food he wants most of this day. So that's where I'll be. For most hunters out there, I'm talking most of them don't have Okay, let's see, do I want to hunt the alfalfa? Do I want to hunt the clover? Do I want to hunt the antler king the honey whole plot? Do I want to hunt their fall on our spring plot? Do I want to hunt the soybeans? Or do I want to hunt

the corn tonight? Well? I mean, you know as well as I do. Most people don't have those options.

it sweetens up again. And you see it. I manage ground in Missouri and Illinois and a handful of states like that. Okay, you see it so clearly. There they're hammering it, hammering it, hammering it, hammering, hammering it. You get those couple of frosts, it's it doesn't completely die. But keep in mind this scenario. They have them all, and they have virtually every food source that they would

want in these scenarios. So there they are hammering that alf alfa, and then you get those first couple of frosts, and boom, that just plummets. There's still some out there, but nowhere near as much until about oh depending on the weather conditions. But two three four weeks later, all

of a sudden, that alf alfa it's turned on. And if it's not every bit as hot and heavy as that is, that mode corn, it's pretty darn close so that is something that is I'm just sharing that because heck I didn't realize that until about fifteen twenty years ago. But in general, when it's wet, I tend to hunt green. When it's cold and dry, I tend to hunt grains. Then you get in this huge debate on which is better corn or soybeans? You know which one is better?

The one the deer feed none more that day. That's about the only I have been able to come up with. I think, in general, deer like soybeans a little bit more, and I think they're a better thing to plant from a cost standpoint. The deer feed heavily on the green leaves all summer long, all that type of stuff. But on a given blisterly cold day, which of the two you tell me it's gonna be the one that most of the deer on. And I've seen it waffle plenty

of times. And I'm not talking about I've got beans over here and I've got corn, No, I'm talking I got beans, I got corn. They're sitting side by side and getting off on a little bit of a tangent for management and getting deer to move the way you want them to. That type of stuff. What works out really, really good is if you can go ahead, soy beans, corn, Oh, and here's some green, and you're hunting those transition zones

between the two because you know what I've found. Yeah, those deer really want that fall winter spring cereal rde today. They want that so and they are hammering it. And I'll tell you what, cereal right is a glorious planting for white tails. They are pounding the snot out of it today. They're eventually gonna want a little bit of green. And the overwhelming majority of those deer that they're feeding in that cereal ride are gonna go get some beans

or some corn, most likely both tomorrow. Oh man, do they ever want that grain? They're just pound in the snot on it. But they're gonna want a couple of bites of green too, So they're gonna transition from that green to the green and from the green to the grain. It makes a nice little way to create a natural dear flow while also going ahead and providing them diversity

that they want and need. And you know what, it makes it so much easier to figure out what they want to feed on today When you got it all on one plot I'm right every time.

general and that belt are pathetic. The overwhelming majority have been grazed at one point with cattle, and they're so mature,

and you get in there. Even in the richest farm country there is in this world, white tails are gonna eat more natural brows than they are gonna want would if given the option, or mean preface this, if given the option, white tails even in the richest farm country with every single crop you can possibly imagine, and throw every turn fruit tree you can think of on that, and they're still, if they haven't, are gonna eat more natural brows than they are going to have the stuff

you planted. You get in there with with the chainsaw, and I'm not saying please don't if you don't feel skilled with it, and if you do, follow every darn chainsaw safety rule it is. And please remember we're talking about deer. For crying out loud, it is not worth getting seriously injured or hurt over your loved ones. Would never take that trade versus the biggest buck in the world. Okay,

but it's a situation. You can actually often get loggers to come in, and if you do, please have a plan beforehand all that stuff and keep track of them daily if you can. But you can go ahead and literally Jack the food on that property, not putting money in your pocket. And you can have them go ahead and clear out areas for food plots if you want. You can have them make access roads for you, all sorts of things. But my only advice is first, figure

out what exactly you want to achieve with this. Second, contact a forester and have a plan meet up. Third, stay on top of the loggers daily. Make sure not that they're trying to hose you. They're not, but you're trying to accomplish something very different than they're used to trying to accomplish. So stay on and make sure you're on the same page. And that will do more. Honestly, for so many done Midwestern properties. That and changing the way you're hunting it are the two things that can

jack your success. Forr you up through the dim roof.

they're particularly you know, attuned to pressure. Now after being hunted all season, once you get to the late season, it seems like, hey, find that attractive food source and then hunt it smart. Only at the right time when you can get in, Yeah, when you can get in and out without spooking, and you know, strike on those right days when it's most likely that they'll be moving. A lot of people like to wait for big cold

fronts or snow event or something. Is there Is there anything else or anything that you would like to add some more detail around when it comes to hunting these late food source type hunts the right way.

five plus mile an hour wins. Now, the big issue is you better not be sitting up in some little popple tree that's going like this, whipping around in the wind, because geez, hopefully you're gonna be taking a shot, and it's pretty hard to shoot when you're whipping back and forth up there. It has to either be a really really really manly tree or redneck on stilts or a ground blind or something like that so that you can still shoot accurately. And the other thing you need you

a person really needs to do it. I don't care if you're talking crossbow, I don't care if you're talking compound whatever. If you're gonna hunt and really stiff wins, you need to practice in really stiff wins so you know what that wind is gonna do to your airwre bowl before you ever step out in that situation. Now, one big things I know this is completely off topic, but one of the big things I think people most people, one of the things that have helped me personally the most.

It is awesome for getting yourself in shape and figuring out getting yourself sighted in all that stuff. Standing in the backyard at thirty yards going like this at those at those targets. That's awesome, But it has virtually nothing to do with hunting in any way, shape or form. Pit I can't speak for you but I can tell you I myself, my whole life, I've shot one deer, both feet on the ground, standing perfectly upright, going like this.

perfectly on that delton, dear target. No, go like this, put it on shoot because that's what you're going to be doing on the gear once. Make your practice mimic hunting. Practice with every stinking thing you're going to take out the deer's woods with you at least once and practice those less than ideal situations that we we hunt in. And finally, finally, whatever your mac shooting ranges, double it for practice, and do a heck of a lot more practice at that distance than you ever do at what

your real shooting distance. Is not because if you're let's say it's thirty yards, you're practicing out to sixty. Is this because you want to be able to shoot you're at sixty yards for a first shot. Heck, no, you do not. You're gonna keep your limited at thirty yards. But by practicing at sixty it makes that thirty yard shot seems so ridiculously easy. And guess what you messed up. You accidentally shot him in the guts. Now he's standing

out there at sixty yards. Shoot him again, and you can because you have been practicing out to sixty yards and now you throttle him at sixty and there he is laying in the field for you perfectly by going behind my head and me personally, I I'm willing to shoot out to fifty, but only I will not shoot over thirty unless everything's perfect. I have him ranged, he is calm as can be and almost always exclusively head

down and eating if he's moving at all. No, I'm not shooting over thirty yards, even if I can stop him. But when everything is absolutely perfect, I'll shoot out to fifty. The overwhelming majority of my practice, I mean, I practice way more at one hundred yards than I ever do at fifty year lass once. Once you get sited in, there's really no reason to be shooting at twenty yards anymore.

None shoot long distances. You automatically know any flaws you have in your form, any flaws you have in your equipment, and never forget. Every darn sport in this world is at least fifty percent played right up here. When I am drawing that bowl, if I believe that animal is dead,

I do not want to be that animal. If I'm drawing that bow and I have any question if I'm gonna make that shot, I've learned to just let down because I know, I know the odds that shot turning out good are hitifully few are pitifully pathetic.

weird situations that you're going to in toner hunting. You know what, higher you success on its right along with it, and so does this And when at least, speaking for myself, when my head is in the game, and when I believe I wouldn't want to be into here out there, when my heavy in the game, and I don't believe I wouldn't want to be me out there because it's gonna end real poor.

the season and maybe even through October. But when November hits, a lot of us are in the woods a lot, and especially when you gets to late season now it's cold and snowy, and I think for a lot of folks, practice drops off dramatically during this time period, and that is a it's a big mistake for all those things, all those reasons you just described, keeping yourself sharp, keeping

yourself feeling confident. You know, that's just as important on November twenty fourth and December fifteenth as it is October one, and.

and that is the least of your concerns. I'm sorry to get all preachy here, but and this is just my belief, but I believe it extremely strongly. God put us down on this earth as the number one predator. We have every right within reason tarve us whatever we will utilize, but a heck of a responsibility comes along with that too, and that means we don't waste these animals are essentially under our care. I know that's going to sound ridiculous to some people, but I'm telling you,

nobody's gonna convince me any differently. When we are actually doing these types of things out in the deer ones. We are placing. There is a responsibility that comes along with our actions. And man, you forget about this selfishly. If this is what works for you, cling to it. If you actually do these things, your wild goose chases go way the heck down. And as they said, quite honestly, I'm sorry. We owe it to those animals we do to make sure that our shots are as good and

ethical as they as they reasonably can be. Murphy's law is going to apply playing now, even when you do everything right every single time. The only people that have never missed dear, are never wounded deer, are either liars or are really really really bad hunters because they didn't get a bunch of opportunities. No, yeah, that stuff is gonna happen when we do everything perfect. So don't sabotage it before you let that arrow fly by taking shots.

He shouldn't and do those silly little practice things because they make such a difference it's not even fun. And with that, I'll jump off my soapbox.

and the shot doesn't go the way you want. So thank you for bringing that to the forefront again for us, Steve, and thanks so much for taking the time to do this. I think we've all learned a lot and I enjoyed it.