Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. This week on the show, I'm joined by Owen Riegler of Midwest Whitetail to discuss the little details that help him consistently kill
big bucks, including his biggest ever just this month. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light and our Camel for Conservation program, in which a sale of every piece of First Light camouflage in the Specter Camel pattern, a portion of those proceeds goes back to the National Deer Association to help them on their mission to make things better for deer and
deer hunters all across the country. Actually just spent the weekend with some folks from the National Deer Association down in Kentucky. It was the final event of our Working for Wildlife tour. We had a whole bunch of hunters come out and volunteer on public land on Saturday collecting
white oak acorns. And we were actually collecting these white oak acorns so that they can be used to be planted at a nursery, get these oak seedlings out of the ground and then replanted to help with a reforestation effort on the Daniel Boone National Forest. Incredible stuff. We picked up more than seven hundred pounds of acorns, which I believe they said will equate to something like fifteen thousand new oak trees. They're gonna be planted out there
on public land. How cool is that? So that's it today, speaking of cool things, we are talking deer hunting, and I'm joined by Owenriegler of Midwest Whitetail. Hopefully you've seen some of Owen's stuff over the years. He's been a major contributor over there to Chasing November and their daily blogs and all the different things that Midwest White Tail's got going on. He has been consistently killing, you know, really impressive deer over the years there in his home
state of Iowa. Interestingly, he's also from Michigan, so we've got a shared backstory there. And today in the show, I want to have Owen on to talk about something I've noticed in a lot of videos and a lot of the things that come up into conversations with him on those videos in which he's talking about these little things that he focuses on, these little details, these minute parts of his strategy that actually matter a lot.
You know.
There's all these things that have gone into Owen's kind of process to hunting big deer over the years that maybe now he doesn't even think about that much, but I think for the rest of us they're very interesting. It's those small things in many cases that will allow you to close the distance, to close the gap when trying to kill an old deer, a big old deer.
Now there's a happy medium, right. I think last week's episode with Brad was a great reminder that sometimes we over complicate things, and today with Owen, it's going to be a great reminder that sometimes we do need to be paying attention to the little things though too. So there's something we can take from both of these guys. And today Owen's going to help us kind of understand his strategy and his approach, and we're going to use
the story of a deer he just recently killed. And this story, I think will be a great framework and a great illustration of how he does things, and it just so happens to be the biggest year of his entire life, which is saying something, this is a giant deer. It's a great story. It's pretty darn cool to get to have this kind of example to work with and have a video to be able to look back and
actually watch it too. So as we have this discussion, remember that you can go over to the U Tube channel and then watch the hunt that we're discussing to kind of see both sides of the equation. Now, in addition to Owen being on the show, we've also got Josh Sparks who also is over there at Midwest Whitetail, and he has been kind of a I don't want to call him a fly on the wall, but he's been like a participant and an observer of Owen over the years as he's hunted in specifically, as he's been
chasing this specific buck. Josh has got to be out there doing some of this work with him, observing some of it, been in conversations with him, and we thought it'd be fun to have Josh join the podcast too, because he's got this very interesting perspective of watching Owen do all this stuff. So Josh knows some things that I just don't know that he can ask about. So Josh helps us out here today with throwing in some new questions, some color commentary on the hunt, and really
helps us round out this conversation. So Owen and Josh are joining me here today. It's a lot of fun. We're going to learn from one of the best big deer hunters out there, and I couldn't be more excited for it. So with that said, let's get to my chat with Owen Regler and Josh Sparks. All right here with me now I've got Owen Wrigler and Josh Sparks. Welcome to the show, guys.
Thank you sir.
It's good to be here. Can't be talking about big deer with the big Man, as we like to prefer to him around here.
So well, you couldn't get any couldn't get any better circumstances either, because oh and you're you're coming off quite the successful hunt.
Uh.
You know, when people see this it will be a couple of weeks, but I know here it's it's relatively fresh on your mind. So congratulations on that buck owing.
Thanks a lot, you know, it's like winning the genetic lottery, I think, is what that comes down to. Having done this all these years, it's just so rare to get a deer to that size. You know.
Yeah, Well, like we were saying before we start recording, both of us having been from Michigan, you know, you can just see not only the genetic differences, but then the nutritional differences and the hunting pressure difference. There's big, big differences between you know, what might be possible in a place like where you and I grew up versus what you have there in Iowa now and to your point,
like you're enjoying the benefits of that. But all that brings me to one of the first things I want to talk to you about, which is Michigan, where we both grew up, where I still am. I'm curious what those early years are like when you were learning to deer hunt in Michigan, because I went through that thing, and I first hunted on the upper so it'd be the northwest part of the state Lower Peninsula, but northwest part of the Lower Peninsula was where I kind of
cut my teeth, and we hardly saw any deer. If we saw a deer, it was you know, a little year and a half buck, Like a year and a half old buck was an absolute trophy for anyone in my family. And if you got a two year old eight pointer, that was you know, talk of the t So that's what I had for the first like eighteen years of my life. What was What was that like
for you? And how did that either help you become the deer hunter you are or hurts you or slow you down in your hunting process as you were trying to learn to hunt in that kind of place.
Yeah, I think it was very similar to what you described it. It was the same kind of thing. You know, it was so difficult. You would see tracks, you would see rubs, you'd see scrapes, but you'd never see the deer. And so it became just more and more intriguing all the time. That's, you know, so bad. When somebody would shoot a deer, I'd have to go see it. I'd be like, hey, we got to go see this buck because I was so intrigued that you know, they actually
do exist. You see the sign, but you never see the deer. And I would look at them. I would look at their hoofs, just every little thing that just I really think that's what made me love deer hunting because it was so difficult there. You know, you could see videos and stuff other guys shooting nice bucks, and it was so difficult to do it. Just I feel like it really just drew me in. If it was easy from the start, or you've seen a lot of nice deer, I don't know if I would love it like I do now.
It's funny you say that, because Josh, before we were recording, you were asking us about this, like and how you grew up in Iowa surrounded by, you know, the shang RelA of deer hunting, and I've got a lot of friends who are in the same situation, and I've always thought the opposite of what you were thinking, which is I'm surprised people in Iowa like as much they do,
because it's like you started on third base. But me and Owen we started, you know, at home, far far far away from ever hitting that grand Slam, and so we had to fall in love with deer hunting despite the fact we never saw bucks, despite the fact that we never saw a big deer, and knew the opportunities that could be possible. And I think you know, whatever downsides that came with it certainly did build in, like an appreciation for those older deer as being like so
rare and special. I remember growing up, we had this hunting camp up in no Other Michigan, our family deer camp and old log cabin. And there's this door, this wooden door that my grandpa posted pictures on for years, for decades, and there was all these pictures of like the old hunts, you know, uh, a seven pointer over top of an old buick hood of like the sedan, like that kind of stuff, a buck poll, like all
these great pictures. But there was one picture on there, and it was like a news clip, like a newspaper clipping of a ten point buck, you know, looking back on it now in my memory, there was probably like one hundred and twenty five inch type ten pointer. And I remember, for most of my childhood into well into my teenage years, I thought that was fake. I thought
that was not a real deer. I thought that that was impossible for deer to get that big, and that this must have been like something that my grandpa had like had like I thought it was maybe like a painting or something. It was actually a photograph but I just couldn't believe deer actually got that big. And then, you know, eventually I started seeing magazines or TV shows or whatever when I was, you know, my younger years, and eventually you realize, like, oh wow, it's not like
where I am now everywhere else. But in addition to that appreciation, I think that having to learn to deer hunt in a place like that forced me to pay attention to a lot of little things. It forced me to get really good at certain things, because you know, when I started trying to kill a three year old buck, that was like incredibly hard because there might be one three year old buck in a square mile and that was the best deer around, And so I had to
do things to kill a deer like that. That made me have to really focus on the little things and the details. And in watching a lot of your stuff Owen listening to you talk over the years on Midwest White Tail, I've heard a lot of the same things.
I've heard a lot of those same ideas come from you, And I'm just curious if that came from just who you are, or if that stemmed from your learning to hunt in Michigan where that was necessary to ever see a half decent deer, Like, what what do you think about that?
You know, I'd say probably a combination of both of those things. I think the grit and determination probably came from Michigan, where like you alluded to. I mean, you really had to go the extra mile to get a decent buck there, you know, so I think to really hunt hard and all that kind of thing I think did come from Michigan. You know, what, are you a friend of thought?
Oh, that's all right. I was going to also ask you what you think if it wasn't that, what do you think the greatest thing you took away from your Michigan hunting experience was, like the greatest lesson you learned from those years that has in some way made you the deer hunter you right now.
I think it really is just that grit and determination and just not giving up and just being out there. You know. I always say there's no substitute for tree time, and I really believe that. I Mean, you can do all the things you want, and you know, be a great hunter and all the do all the things right, but you just got to be out there. You know, so many times I've proven that to myself off that you know, it wasn't going right. You're hunting one big
deer and you're just struggling. You can't see, and you just keep going and you keep going, you keep grinding, and then boom, two minutes of time just changed everything, you know. And so I think that's a that's a lesson to be learned, right there, is you just got to stay determined.
Yeah, so you spent when was it that you moved from Michigan to Iowa.
Two thousand and two, I was twenty seven, about Josh's.
Age, okay six? Yeah, so you leave Michigan, you go to Iowa. It's the Promised Land. Did you right away did you feel like you could take what you had learned in Michigan and apply it to what was happening in Iowa and right it would get on deer or did you have to change some of your process or your your strategy in this new area.
Now I felt like what I'd learned in Michigan. I mean, that's just about as tough as it gets. At the time, there was I think we had about eight one hundred thousand gun hunters, and if you took that philosophy into Iowa, I mean, yeah, you could kill deer. I think I'd hunted two days in Iowa when I shot at like a one sixty seven.
So I'm like, yeah, you know, And so wasn't your first trip. It wasn't Iowa, if I remember, it was Missouri. It was it was with your dad.
Yeah, well the trip of my dad was in Iowa. But I went to Missouri by myself.
Okay, because that was like the I think that when we talk about what inspired you to really just jump and go for it, it was actually hunting, not here. It was you know, your first out of state trip. You got to see more big deer and you're driving around scouting, I think is what you talked about, right than you really had ever seen in Michigan. I think. I don't know. I just the thing that I've always admired about your journey was like you just went for it,
you know. And so obviously today with the episodes Keyboard Warriors or YouTube, always liked to if I had owned situation or if I and I just I always feel the need to go into the defense mode of like, well you don't because you never took the risks that he did. And I think a lot of inspiration and you know, you made the comment about, you know, Michigan hunting versus Iowa hunting, like when we're growing up. And I think that's the beautiful thing about boat hunting in specificity,
is that everybody starts somewhere different. For me, I got to see a lot of big deer, but man, did I screw it up over and over and over. And I feel like I would have had some success. Granted I got to see bigger deer, and that was a privilege, no doubt. I didn't know there wasn't a big deer anywhere else, you know what I mean. I just thought your deer hunt and whatever. But it's the failures, for lack of a better term. You can always grow in
some way, you know. And I think now we're atting this story of making the jump from Michigan to Missouri or Iowa. It was just the next chapter, you know, the next challenge, and most people don't don't make the jump. And I think that that's what, you know, I think that's where it all starts.
Ollen Was that an easy decision for you or was that something that we were really torn on.
I was torn on it because all my family's in Michigan, you know, and so I'd never been away from my family. It was real close to my parents. So it was tough when it really came down to it, But it was something that I just wanted so bad, you know. I just love to hunt. My dad loved to hunt so much. It's like, you know, part of me probably wanted to make my dad proud. I wanted to come
out and build. Actually what I've done here, you know, it was inspirational, I think, just from the standpoint of making my dad proud, you know, And a lot of people probably don't see the sacrifices that go into it. I've spent a lot of time away from my kids, a lot of time away from my parents, you know, and you know, people don't see that kind of stuff. When they watch this, They're like, I must be nice
kind of mentality. And when you come from humble beginnings like I did, you know, basically none I got free lunches in school, we didn't have anything, you know, very loving parents. I couldn't ask for better ones. But to go from nothing to you know, what I've built here, you really, it would be nice if everybody knew the story of what that took you know, you had to be a workaholic the whole time, and of course you
didn't get to hunt as much as you wanted. But I just kept building my life around the hunting lifestyle, the whitetail lifestyle I like to call it, and just I kept making decisions of you know, switching jobs or starting my own company, all this kind of stuff to just keep building more and more to where you could hunt more and work less. And so finally where I've got to today.
Yeah, you know you mentioned some of those intangibles, some of that stuff around just being a hard worker or being willing to make sacrifices. From where you are now looking back on your twenty whatever almost twenty years or whatever has been since you made that move, and as you've grown as a hunter, what do you think some of those most intangibles have in that have led to you being successful? Because to your point, this wasn't handed
to you on a silver platter. It took not just hard work, but a whole bunch of other things, I'm sure, and a lot of folks, you know, we all have different situations, We're all hunting different places, we all have different levels of access or resources or time but there is something to be said about like personal characteristics and tangibles that every one of us can put into action. We could all work harder, we could all be more perseverant,
we could all whatever it might be. What do you think some of those very most important character parts and pieces have been for you to be successful, because that's something that translates everywhere. Anyone can do that kind of thing, right.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I was given the tools, and maybe God given tools or maybe I learned a lot of them just to be a hard work and my work ethic was probably off to charge for you know, twenty five thirty years, which you know, I don't know exactly where that comes from. Maybe it was just my personality or maybe you know, my dad teaching me to
work when I was just a kid. If you know, go out there, if you want to do this, you can have the money, and being that we were poor, I think that it put more emphasis on wanting to do that. Like I want to buy a bow, right, we don't have money to buy a bow. So if you want a bow and you're going to go out there and take tires off from rims for you know, ten twelve hours to take these rims in and scrap
steel and stuff like that. I think you just learn along the way and eventually it just leads to you know where I'm at today. I guess I would say just work ethic. I don't know if it was learned or God given, but either way, I'm thankful for it. Yeah.
So that work ethic led you just recently to killing the biggest deer ever. Has that been confirmed? Is that is?
It?
Is he as big as he thought he was?
He is every bit is big, if not better. Yeah. Absolutely.
So what I kind of thought we could do is that story, which is kind of like the culmination of all of your years of hunting and personal growth. This led you to this moment. It seems like I want to use this specific story to hopefully uncover all of the parts of your process that led to this success, not just the success, but the many, many, many other
year that you've killed over the years. So where I kind of want to start is towards the end of the story, and you can jump back into history to tell me about whatever you think is most important from the past. But if I could have us pick up the story of this buck you call Lockness in the spring, after you picked up both of his sheds, you found one, and then I don't know how much longer it was.
Later in the spring you had some buddies come out and they continue to search with you, and now you've got the match set, both antlers from this buck Lockness that you think has the potential to be the buck of a lifetime, and you decide, all right, this is the deer I'm going to try to kill this year. What do the following weeks and months look like for you? Ohwen, when you have one specific buck that is of this nature that your year is going to revolve around. You've
got habitat work, You've got stand prep work. Maybe there's scouting work, maybe there's just sitting up late at night looking at maps or photos or something. Can you walk me through some of those most important things you did in the few months after that as you start building this whole mousetrap.
I guess yeah. I mean it was basically the same for Lockness as it had been for a lot of other deer. You know, I had learned that if you would manipulate the landscape and the food and all that and keep it the same a lot of times the bucks would do the same thing, and so that was my goal, you know, going into the year. I wanted everything to be just the same and hoping he would do the same thing, live in the same area. And it did come to fruition. He did do that, he obliged and it worked out.
So how many years have you owned this piece?
I've been here six, I think six or seven, Okay.
So not too much longer than how long I've known you, because I think you know. Part of what you're trying to say there is is like Lockness was just the buck, the newest tenant, for lack of a better term, And I remember when I met Owen back in twenty eighteen, he wasn't improving his farm based on the buck that was there, right, if that makes sense. Like I look at you and it's like the process of when you first got here. Maybe that's what where it really starts.
Lockness is just six years later the buck that happens to live there. But one thing that's so different. And maybe there's factors that you think that influences, but your piece of property. If a buck is in a certain zip code, the chances are he's going to do with the five and a half six and a half year old that was there three years ago, is what that one did. And I've never seen a lot of properties
like that. And it's almost like you've maximized your acreage, right, you know, whether that's the food you know, whether that's your food pot architecture from the standpoint of bow hunting them. You know, maybe it's you bought this farm, you had all these years of developing your strategies and fine tuning. Okay, you got the piece of dirt when you first closed on it. What was your steps then, right?
Yeah, And that's the same on all these farms. So, like Josh alluded to, it doesn't just happen when I have a buck that I want to go after. So this is every year, I'm doing all the same kind of things. I'm out there trying to improve you know, TSI and just really thinking about what does the farm need. In any given farm, you know, what does it need?
What can I do work? And I put food working, I put water and so all this is going into every farm every year, and so you know, when a certain buck comes along, it's just a continuation of what you've always done. So you know, really not a lot of new stuff. It's just what I've always done.
Really, So what makes this zone such a great I know, we'll call it a buck hotel?
Right?
It seems like if you're sanely every year, you know, if a big buck's around, this is where he wants to be. And when the top dog is knocked off the pedestal because you got him, the next buck fills in that vacancy. What have you made here or what have you set aside to make them safe? Or what makes this hold a top tier deer like this consistently?
The secluded timber, I would say, is that is the number one factor that this There is a secluded timber that's kind of in the middle. I would say it's a sanctuary for lack of better terms. It's not like I never go into it, but if I do hunt around it, it's usually with the wind blowing away from that timber, and so they just feel secure in that. It's a big thicket and you know they live in there, and you know, I try to hunt them on the fringes.
I'd rarely ever hunt inside that timber. So I wait for him to come out of that and just you know, leave that to them, and a lot of times you'll see it to be interesting. You know, a buck will be in an area that you know, like the crabs fly you guys may have heard of before that there's always a big buck down there, and you know, once he gets removed or maybe another dominant buck moves in, they'll displace a little bit and they'll they'll find their place.
I see that a lot with these big dominant bucks is you know, they'll find their ten acres if that's what they call home, and that's you know, they kind of own that area. So that's always interesting to see. But but I would say, you know, the thicket in the habitat work has been probably the number one factor.
Well, like, okay, I'm I just bought my first farm. What's what's habitat work mean?
Though?
Like I know TSI timber stand improvement. But you know, maybe somebody listening or even me, like, well, what's the next layer of tears about a farm? I achieved the dream helped me make the most of it.
Right, And I think every farm is a little bit different. It's just a matter of seeing what you have, what it needs. You know, is it wide open timber with no undergrowth. I mean, so is that what you need? You know, do you need undergrowth? I mean it's looking at all the variables and deciding what it needs, you know.
So one thing I think is interesting here as you do, maybe I feel like I always grow up thinking deer season, food plots, green plots, ag your brain is three sixty five. I want that buck to live right there. Yeah, so you know, and.
You learn a lot of things along the way. I think one of the differences market coming from Michigan is you don't have to have all timber. I know, when I moved out here, I wanted to hunt all the timbered stuff. Well, out here, a lot of the deer are in more open areas. If you've got you know, some cover, brushy cover that's more open. A lot of times that's where your big bucks will bed. And so that's always interesting to take note. You don't need to
always make it the thickest on rabbit hole. Rabbit can't crawl through a kind of thing. It's interesting to see how they're a little bit different out here. And I suppose as you go farther west, it's even more so that way.
Yeah, you mentioned, you know, these big old bucks will have their little ten acre pocket or something that they claim. Something we've been talking to a lot of folks about recently is just how buck behavior changes as they get older and when you get that five, six, seven or eight year old deer whatever. A lot of folks talk about how they see a deer's core area shrink, tighten up the older they get. Is that something you've seen too, with those old old deer that you've got to observe and hunt.
Absolutely, Yeah, it's been so much fun to watch more over the years. But you see them, you know, maybe as a three year old, and they're all over the whole farm, and they're sporadic. You know, that's why a lot of them get killed because they move so much. And as they get older in that dominance hierarchy, they start gaining ground there. They start going into these pockets
where they want to be. You know, now they're no longer pushed out by another a crabs or a wide nine or whatever, so they start to claim these prime areas and those are usually the areas that have the betting they want to be in. It's got the food, the water's got everything they want, and especially to those in every year they just start condensing down smaller and smaller.
And it was no different with this lockness buck. I mean, looking back now, I think he was living in an area that was less than ten acres well just a time, you know, that's why I couldn't catch him on a lot of cameras, didn't know where he was because he was living in such a small pocket.
Do you find with a deer like that where the core gets so tight you know, there's a certain predictability to it that should help you as a hunter. But on the flip side, it seems like there's this high risk of you know, if you mess up in that bedroom, you know you're right on top of him. It's not like he's all over the place. There's like one spot and if you're going to make a mistake, it's going to be right in his bedroom, which is, you know,
seemingly usually a high risk spot. How is that? How did that impact the way you thought about hunting this deer or any other old buck that's done something similar? Do you worry about that or do you not? Because they're so dead set on wanting to be in their little pocket, that's hard to push him out of there.
Yeah, I mean I still worry about it. I mean, that's why I usually hunt the fringes, Like, if I have an idea where he's betting, where he's living, I want to hunt the outside fringes of that and not just go busting right into where he's living, because I'm sure you could change that up or at the very least make him completely nocturnal. So you know, that's what I'm trying to avoid.
Well, I think it goes back to where you kind of steer this conversation mark of you found those antlers first. I think for the folks that might have no idea about lockedness, you know it really wasn't you were like, Oh, I'm hunting the buck of a lifetime. I'll never forget we found those antlers. I'm like, oh, and you got to talk about it just in case he's alive, because he was not in the best of spirits.
Yeah, he had that big hematoma. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but he had a great, big hemotoone on his right side, and after he shed, he's shed pretty early. I'm looking at all my trail photos and looking for a buck with a hematoma, you know, a shed buck and I can never find one, and so I'm just thinking, well, he died, I mean, he
didn't make it through. And of course so disappointed if that's the case, you know, because you spend all this time and resources trying to make sure this is the one buck that you wanted to hunt your you know, your whole life. You look like you had the genetics for it, and so yeah, I was pretty disappointed. They get under your skin, you know, almost like kids or something. I mean, it's just you know, you're super attached to him. Really, it's kind of wild.
But yeah, So another thing I'm thinking about with these you know, tight home ranges or when you have like a we'll call it a buck hotel that always holds a good deer in there.
You know.
One of the things that I've started thinking I've had the luxury of starting to think about, is I've got a few places that I've hunted year after year after year now where I'm getting to the point now where bucks can reach maturity. We were talking about this before we start recording, Like I've got a spot now where like I can get a five year old buck in Michigan. But it's not always you know, a big antler deer.
I get a lot of you know, solid mature bucks now, but only ever once in a while do I get a deer that comes around that might break that one hundred and forty inch mark here. That's pretty rare. It's like once every five to ten years, I'll get a deer maybe that could get over one forty. So something I've started thinking out more now. I know a lot of people talk about this kind of stuff in places where this is commonplace, but for me, it's relatively rare.
I've started thinking, like, man, do I need to start shooting some of these deer that are four that are you know, just a big, solid bully eight pointer because he's claiming the best buck hotel. And now I've got this really nice up and coming three year old who never could claim that because this gnarly old four or
five year old deer has been here forever. And then that freewheel in three year old that has the possibility to be a one fifty one sixty some day he's relegated to third or fourth place in the general area and he gets killed by the neighbors because of that something like that. Have you ever had to go to this level like buck management where you are taking out a deer out of the buck hotel because you want that to open up for some good three or four year old that you know might be in the area.
Man, did you hit the nail on the head with that? You'll see me a lot of times it always talk about, you know, it doesn't matter the antler sized buck if he's an old aggressive buck. Always talk about managing the farm.
And you were so spot on with that. You know, that's the probably the number one factor of why these bigger bucks have been there is because I continue to shoot these bully bucks, these apes or whatever they are, you know, and that makes room for that buck that like we talk about that dominance hierarchy, you know, if that a big bully buck is in there, I mean I had two years ago my girlfriend shot one of the bucks. It was just super dominant in the very
area the lackness was in. So I think that was key. I mean, you got to continue to do that. I think you're spot on.
Is there anything when you're trying to do that? The first thing I think about when I'm imagining this scenario is I want to try to hunt and kill this bully buck at the same time, I don't want to put so much pressure to educate the up and coming buck that I want to kill next year or two years from now. Do you hunt for these I don't want to call them call bucks, but we'll call them a management buck. Do you ever hunt a management buck in a different kind of way because you're trying to
preserve the best spot for that young buck? Or does that not matter because it's going to be a year or two later anyways, and that's not going to translate.
Yeah, I mean I pretty much hunt them the same as all of them, because I am hunting the fringes. You know, I'm not really diving into their bedroom so much anyway, So I'm on the fringe either way. So I pretty much hunt them the same way. You know, I might just hunt them a little more aggressive as far as the time I put in trying to get them, you know, Okay, details.
You know, he guys talked about that, having to pay attention to the details. Coming from Michigan. You say, you hunt them the same way, but it's like the way you set up your farm. You're deer don't even know you're there, right, I mean, like, and that might be something we talk about because yeah, you hunt almost every day you can. Yeah, but it's in a way that, like people might think of the word pressure, just because you're there, it doesn't mean that you're leaving an impact.
I guess, right, Yeah, how do you pull that off?
Yeah? I mean, you know, going back to even like the trails I make to these stands so you don't have to make a big rockets getting in there. You're minimizing your scent. You know, almost everything's got some type of trail to it, either a mode path or we go in and clear out the brush. You know. Now I've been able to get to a point where I've got equipment, so if I want to go in pull out some small trees so we can slip through an
area quietly, I'll do that, you know. So, like Josh said, it's just it's keeping the pressure down even though you're in there hunting quite a bit. You know, you don't hunt it on the wrong wind direction and all that kind of stuff.
I've seen you in some videos when you're talking about your habitat improvements. You've mentioned a few different times that you look at access first, so before figuring out where you want to put a food plot, you're looking at access first, and then you pick a tree and then you design the plot around the access in the tree.
Can you elaborate on that a little bit and how you think about access to these farms when you're setting up an ambush location, Like what are the really important factors and what are some of the tricks that you found for accessing and exiting these places that are still good to hunt, but you know you can slip it and out without this deer knowing it, right.
Yeah, exactly right. I mean I think it's so critical to be able to get in and get out of there without them knowing you're hunting them, especially if you're going to hunt, you know, day after day or multiple days in a row. And so usually I'll start with waterways, I mean, great places to access is you know down
creek drainages or washouts, that kind of thing. And anytime you can walk those down and pop up out of those right to a tree stand or blind or whatever you're hunting, I think it's great, great strategy, And I've got a lot of stuff like that. That's that's where I start. So I've got majority of my stuff. You'll see, even my tree stands are right off of drainage of some type. You can climb down the tree and into the drainage and walk it out.
Yep. When it comes to your paths that you're making, you mentioned mowing it, doing some other work like that. Do you go to the point of clearing leaves in season, because I know some guys will actually in season try to clear leaves so that it's silent when you're walking. I've always worried about that, and like going in there and raking a trail or blowing a trail would just seem like too much human activity in season, but some people do it.
Do you I have before?
Yeah, we've done some pretty crazy stuff. I remember one time, this was back probably fifteen years ago, we raked a trail, you know, regular rakes, no leaf blow or anything over a quarter of a mile because we bumped deer a couple of times going in there, and I'm like, you know, that attention to detail. We can't have that if we're going to have a good hunt. And so we go in and rake a trail all the way down to Ravine up you know, up the hills, and it's a
lot of work. But when you're just a lunatic about it. It just seems normal.
That's what you do when you do that. Are you paying attention to the wind? Because I think about going in, it's like you just walk in and start raking just because you're scared some deer, and like, are you paying attention to those same details of like you're you're raking on the right wind?
Right?
I mean, like, yeah, exactly. That's the thing about you. It doesn't just stop stop there, You're like, oh, you going to rake to be quiet, But it's like there's fifteen other factors that if you like poke and pry, you're like, well, yeah, I mean, uh, of course I'll do it this.
Way right exactly. Yeah, I don't. I don't necessarily think of that stuff anymore because it's automatic. But yeah, when you're going in there raking your path, you're doing it on the right wind based on where you think the deer bed.
Any other factor to when you would choose to do something like that. Would you also like, is there a certain time of the season you'd want to do that? Is there a certain I'm assuming you'd want to do it midday, but is that a thing like you would do just before the run or are you doing that mid October during the you know, quote unquote lull period, or do you do it when would you do something like that?
Yeah? I think early to mid October? Yeah, yeah, early to mid October for me, because you still got a lot of that foliage up, so you're a little more hidden. You know, you're you're not probably making as big a disturbance as you think you are, you know, in those leaves. Once you get them cleared out of there, I mean, it stays pretty clear. I mean you don't have to go back in there all the time and do that. I mean, just about last few season, you can still be pretty quiet.
Yeah. Would you do it in night time because there aren't in that betting area any.
I mean, that's a good point. I haven't, but you certainly could. Yeah.
Yeah.
So what about the other things When it comes to your actual stand setups or blind setups, You've got path to every single one of them. Sometimes you will rake leaves to make sure that that path is safe and quiet. You've got if it's not a mode trail, it's an access route through a waterway or a creek or something
like that. What are the other little things you're doing to make sure that a stand site is as good as possible, Like when you're sitting there on the day you're prepping it, whether it's in February or August or whatever it is that you're doing that. What are the little things that you're trying to line up to make it just right, whether it be picking the right tree and having cover in it, or whether it be you know, different things are adding to the location, Like I've seen
you add some things to hunt locations. What are the most most important things in your mind?
I think all the above, as you alluded to, a lot of times we're adding cover. You know, if it's a tree, I think the location is the most important. So I'll take a mediocre tree in a great location versus the other way around. I think that's the most important. So a lot of times I'll add cover to a tree because that's where I want to be, you know.
And then the other just small details like trimming every limb that could pose a problem, you know, like there's that one limb, and I know guys that help me and stuff probably drives them nuts. I'm like, can you get that one limb right there that's thirty seven feet up in the air, you know, stuff like that. But sometimes it just makes the difference. I mean, how many times have you heard guys say, like, I had him at twenty yards and I just couldn't get a shot.
There was one limb in the way. Well, if you had to trim that one limb, you'd be having your hero photos right now, you know. So just those tiny details I think are so important.
It goes back to the Michigan mentality. I mean, I hate to keep interjecting, but one of the things about all this is you do all of these things and mark you're probably the same way and the deer aren't there, and it's like it's almost just you're trained to pay attention to every detail, improve every spot. Like I think about the new eighty you had this year. You didn't
know what bucks are there. There was no care in the world if you were going to hunt something, but you prepped and visualized as if the buck of a lifetime was going to be there. Growing up in Iowa, if there was a big deer in the area. Now all of the sudden we paid attention. Now all of a sudden, we cared, you know what I mean. And so that I think is the approach where it's like, it doesn't matter what's residing on the piece of property,
you're a steward of the land. Yeah, and maybe the beginning of this conversation, it's like, what is the benefit of that Michigan struggle. I mean, that seems to be the connection for me watching you know, big picture.
Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right. I set up all the stuff like you're hunting the buck of a lifetime because you never know when you might be, you know, And so we do it all the same on each one of them because eventually you're probably going to be hunting a buck there that you're really happy to be hunting. So it's just the way we go about it.
Scrape trees, rubbing posts. I've seen you install those in some of your locations. What's the uh, what's the fine tune process there? I've seen you've got some specific types of limbs you prefer. I see you've got a very specific post style you're using a lot of the time. How do you do that in the best possible way? And why?
Yeah, And that's all been trial and error. I may have been one of the first guys to ever start using the rubbing posts This goes back to the early two thousands, just after I got here, and it was just well, if he likes to scrape on this edge, what if he likes to scrape right here by my tree stand, you know. And so it was just a
trial thing. I've got some old pictures going way back, and you know what worked was just trying to limbs, and I try hickory limb, I try an oak limb, cedar, you know, all this different stuff, just to see what if they preferred anything more than another. So that's just more so trial and error and working on all that. You know, probably the best thing would be in this area as a cedar post. If you had pine like you do in Michigan, you got quite a bit of pine.
If you trim down a pine post or a cedar post and then planted, that would probably be better than these store bought and things. But just for ease of going and getting as many as you want, it's you know, easier to go to the lumberyard and just get a bunch of these posts and then drill your hole. But I've got just one seedar post that we trimmed out
and planned it because I wanted to try it. Like everything else, you know, Just so I would say that's probably all of that has just been trial and error and what's worked and what hasn't.
For somebody who hasn't seen you do it on video, what is your process? Because you mentioned the limb, but you know, walk somebody through that.
Yeah. So when I have a good spot, and a lot of times these are beyond food sources or openings, I'll put this rubbing post twenty yards from my tree. I want it to be a good shot. Obviously, you're not gonna put it out thirty or forty yards and give yourself a tougher shot than you need to. So twenty yards. You don't want him right under your tree, but you know, a good shot. That's a makable shot
for you. And then I'm going to point the limb toward my tree because you want him either if he comes from the side or even quartered away, you know you want him to present that angle. If you put it on the opposite side of the your rubbing post or tree or whatever, then you know, possibly that's in the way. So all those little details and then you know, I'll drill a hole in that rubbing post and then usually an oak limb is what I'll use a red
oak because they're pretty good limb. They don't break easily like a white oak or some of the others. You know. I've got a height that I really like, you know, five and a half feet five and a half to six feet. I like to have them up there and just seems to be the ticket. And of course it's great for inventory, I know, I talk about that a lot. There's no other way rather get inventory. I don't know if there's a better way.
Really, do you see that limb staying effective throughout the entire season or do you ever replace it at some point in the year so you have fresh leaves and it's not all worn down yet.
I usually leave it for the entire season. But that's just because the size of the scale I'm doing this on now. I mean, it's it's like two days of work to go around to every one of these and replace the limb, you know. And so if you had one, I've had to replace them several times because one had got broken, you know. So if you have that scenario, I'll go replace it right away. But most of the time throughout the season, I'll just leave it as long as that limbs still up.
Okay, what about mock scrapes in general, So not creating a new tree in the middle of the field, but do you ever create mock scrapes under existing trees elsewhere to either enhance the stand site or you know some people, some people go really wild and mock scrapes and like to make tons of them all over the place to try to like keep deer on their property. I've seen other people remove licking branches so that deer won't scrape anywhere except for right next to their tree stand where
they have one scrap. Do you do anything else like that?
Yeah, both of those. I mean I'll do that, especially around your stand location. Obviously, if it's a tree that's right there where you want them, I'll do that very thing. A lot of times, I'll just add a limb. I'll cut an oak limb. If you've got whatever limb overhanging it's not the right height, I'll go zip tie that limb on so it hangs straight down. And they really
seem to like that. And like you said too, if you've got limbs on the other side of the opening, let's say that they really like to hit, and you'll cut those down and make this the best scrape right there? So yeah, I do that all the time.
Okay, what about with the stand itself or the blind itself. Is there any fine tuning that you do to either make them more quiet or to better set them up for good shots? What are those final things? You pick the tree, you put the stand up, and now you're sitting there just before you leave, and you're thinking yourself, Okay, what are the last couple of things I need to do to make sure this is bulletproof, to make sure
this is as good as possible? Does anything else stand out that you sometimes do?
I mean, just looking at the tree from a deer's perspective is one thing I like to do, and seeing if you look skylined up there, if you need more cover, I mean, can you get your stand where there's a big limb breaking up your outline? I really like that. If you can get in a tree that's got big limbs coming off or multiple trunks that kind of breaks you up. You know, you don't always have that, but
it's one of the things I look at. And then my stand angle I really like too, is trying to set that stand to where you can shoot off your left shoulder. You know, for me being right handed, you don't have to turn completely around on your stand to shoot. I mean, if you get surprised, you're ready to go. Just those little things.
Okay, so your property is prepped, you know.
The deer.
He When was it that you got the confirmed first picture of him that he was alive this year?
Man? Uh you saw it first? Yeah? Yeah, Actually I saw him early in the spring. I saw a bucket. I remember telling Josh this. I thought was lockness at the time, but it was so early in the year I couldn't be certain, you know. I was like, man, it might have been him. So all of a sudden, I'm like, hey, maybe he is alive. And then it was later on. I think it was in July, maybe late July. I had jumped the buck out of the
CRP and I said, it can't be any other. Buck is huge, you know, super wide, kicker stickers, a little drop and huge masks, and I'm like, he's got to be alive. So then it's like just start dumping cameras in these areas, you know, trying to relocate him see if it is indeed him. So it was maybe middle of August, I think by the time I checked those cameras and confirmed that he was alive.
Okay, So leading into opening day, you've got sightings from previous years, you have photos from that year and previous years, and then you know the history of how the property operates, right, how other deer have used it. What were the most important pieces of information in your mind that you had kind of figured out about this deer leading into that first day, whether it be like personality traits or how
he used the landscape or anything else. What were those most important couple of things that you had learned up to that point that you thought were going to be critical to your success.
Man, I really don't know. I think just having that area narrowed down to where he liked to live and seeing how he shifted once he shed his veil, but I think was probably the most critical because if you're hunting two hundred yards away from where he said, obviously you're in a disadvantage. So just know one where he wanted to be was super critical.
So he knew basically where he went to bed. Did you have like a pattern as far as that man he usually will come out and feed in this area early or was there any kind of like annual pattern you were starting to see, or or window where you thought my best chance is going to be this window or anything like that.
I really didn't from years past. That's why I was so surprised that to have him on a daylight pattern in that green plot were ended up getting him, you know, because I didn't have that years past. You just it was pretty nocturnal. You didn't see much of him, So it was a little surprising to have that this year.
That's kind of what you talked about mark of You've noticed people make that trend of four or five and then all of a sudden at six, I remember you find those sheds. Yeah, I'm like, so you think you got a good chance if he's alive. You're like, no, not at all. And that's like I mean, seriously, when you talk about personality types of bucks, I know it sounds crazy to some people like you maybe like humanized this deer, but it's it's a thing like some of
the bucks on this wall. They were all around daylight, lockness, and the approach you made for him and all the plans you know, when you found those sheds really had nothing to do with how you killed them, right, Yeah, that's right. Maybe that'd be something like four and five. What kind of buck was he?
Yeah, and now, yeah, I totally agree with that. He was super nocturnal. I mean, I guess a little bit. At five. I had him at one place we called the Big Oak. I did have him daylight there several times. No real pattern to it, but he would daylight there. That's why I thought I might get my shot right there. So I guess, you know, going back to your point, that there was some historical data right there. But as it turned out, he did start the daylight in that
green plot, which was surprising to me. So obviously having that information was critical.
So I heard that you decided not to use cell cameras this year. You went back to standard trail cameras. Can you explain that decision a little bit, especially when you've got your chance at a buck of a lifetime.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know what I was thinking there, But you know, when I used to check cameras, like we all did, you know before selling all that, I just loved doing that. It was something I really enjoyed. So I would be out there most of the day and I'm getting my exercise. Besides, plus I'm on the farm that I love. I'm just you know, So that was the allure to it. I want to get back to that because it's something I just love to do.
And then the other thing in regards to the lockness Buck is I just wanted that shock value when he stepped out. I didn't really know he was there, and all of a sudden, You're like, well, there he is. And you know, the older guys you know that. You know, we never had that kind of information growing up, and so all of them were like that. You're like, oh my gosh, here he comes, you know, And so I
wanted that again with this lockness Buck. But then you know, as we started into the season, I didn't know where he was. Yeah, I know, I know, Josh you talked about a little bit. It was driving me crazy. I'd be texting John, I have no idea where he's at. He left the state, and you know, in hindsight, he was living in such a small area that that's why I wasn't getting him anywhere else because he just wasn't moving. You know, it's just bed to food, food to bed.
So what was the camera strategy then? As far as since you since you did not sell cameras. You were going back to the camera strategy that we were all using, you know, five ten years ago, where you had to actually go in there pull the cards yourself. So did you have more conservative camera placement because of that, or did you stick them where you always would and just had a certain way you could access them so that it was low impact. How often were you checking them? I'm curious about all that.
Yeah, I mean I put them in the traditional spots where they're easy to check. I'm usually on the fringes or on these paths like a mode path, you know, we're easy to get in and out sent free that kind of thing, or by a tree stand, you know, if you go in to hunt it, you can pull the card then. But you know, I was as we started getting into the season, I started checking them a little more and a little more because I'm like, what's
going on? You know. Of course I would only check him with the correct win for where I thought he was betting. I'll tell you something that might be a little bit surprising. On that Green source, I had six cameras on one Green source, and it would blow your mind that I would only get him on one camera there. But consistent, and you know, so finally you started to piece it together. Actually where he's walking out of the timber.
How you get him on one camera not on any of the others, you know, So that's very surprising that he would he would stay to the middle of that plot most of the time where he would walk out, And so I knew all that, and he might have seen in the main show. We put a tree stand up just trying to catch that movement. Yeah, it didn't work out that way. We didn't get the wind for it, but it was interesting. We had a good plan because he spent a lot of time in front of that
tree stand. As you'll see in the two encounters, he was in front of that stand on both.
How big is this grain food plot that he was checking out?
It's about two acres, maybe just just a hair under two acres.
Okay, so you've got six cameras on one two acre food plot. That's interesting. That's very interesting. Can I think I understand the why now because you just described right like and this is something I've seen too, Like one camera does not capture nearly a full picture of what's going on in an area like that. How do you decide where those six cameras go. And is that something
you do on every food source? Do you fully cover food sources in that kind of way or was that unique just because you thought lockedness was here and so you're going to cover all major entries or exits.
That's right, Yeah, it was because I thought that deer was living there in that area, and so I was trying to pin down to what he might be doing because he is such a different deer. I mean, he did everything. He wasn't a very social buck, you know, he didn't seem to hang around many deer at all, and so I wanted to really pin down what he was doing specifically, you know, not really caring what any other deer were doing. And so that was unique to that.
Usually I've got one camera on a food source, maybe two sometimes, and usually I'll put him on scrapes this time of year because you've got a real good chance of catching whatever buck that is.
You know, how many did you start with, because that's one thing you didn't put six there day one, right, I mean I think you had the one on the scrape.
Just well, the one it was just on the corner of that plot, so you can kind of catch him coming and going.
So it was like once you knew he was there, yes, then it was put him.
All in yep, on all the scrapes. Now I'm trying to trying to figure out a line of movement, is what I was trying to do. You know, I want to see him coming from one way going to another, and that's also going to help me figure out where he's betting. You know. But again, you're checking SD cards, so it's not like you're there every day. But I figured it was a long season, you know, hopefully I was going to have time on my side.
Yeah, what is your process? You know, this doesn't have to be just lockedness. This could be larger than all the other bucks. But you're running cameras, you have all these photos. When you're trying to use those photos to inform your hunts, what level of detail do you drill
down with those? Are you looking at a specific buck and what he did last year and what he did the year before and the year before and then trying to find that specific annual pattern and window, or are you looking and taking a look at Okay, these are the days he daylighted. What was the wind, what was the temperature, what was the barometric pressure? What was the moon?
Do you get that nitty gritty into it or is it more just for recent Hey he's moving yesterday or he's moving last week, I should hunt.
No, the prior year's data I think is very useful. They did the year before the year before that, especially as they get older, as you know we talked about before before you started recording. You know, as the's deer get older, they keep shrinking these cores down, and so you know, once they get to four and five and they're really showing you where they like to be, I
think that's critical information. But you know, the real specific stuff of the wind direction in that pay really a lot of attention to to which I know a lot of guys do. But you know, I'm going to be out there either way, so I don't you know, if he walked in on a south wind, it's nice information to know, but you might walk it on a north wind too.
So one thing I hear you talk about a lot is keeping the food the same. Yeah, that you know, I think that that would be what he puts the most stake in. That's right again, going back to find those sheds, I'm like, what's the plan. You're like, this is the plan. I don't want to change anything. A lot of people I've been around, like, well, how do I make this better?
What?
You know?
It's like, if he's here, don't touch it. But obviously you've changed a little bit with that mix. I mean that that might be something too, like why do you think was there, yes, the bedroom, but you gave him a schmorgasboard of like, no matter what palatability that mix had it early.
Season exactly right. I wanted there to be something there that he really liked, and so it had everything in it. And I've done that several times. I think that was why That's what I wanted to do because I've done it several times before and it's always worked out, you know, and picket fans and Wide nine and Crabs Buck and so there was a lot of them that I'd hunted that way and kept it the same and it worked.
They did the same thing from year to year. If you don't have another dominant buck that's moving them out of that area, I don't think they're going to go anywhere if you give them everything they need, you know.
Yeah, So I get the idea of wanting to keep the bedroom and the food basically the same. So they stick to that usual pattern they've been on. But what about a situation where you don't have that control, So something like what I'm dealing with, and something many all the places they hunt, I guess is there's corn and bean rotations right every other year, the farmer's change and
what's planted. And so one of the things that I frequently find myself debating is I'm trying to understand these annual patterns that a buck has and I'm thinking, Okay, this is what he did. Is a three year old, this is what he did is a four year old, and now he's a five year old and trying to hunt him, and I can look at well, I'll give you my exact scenario. This year, I'm after a buck.
He's five. There's corn this year in the area. Now, I've got a whole lot of history and photos of him last year as a four year old, and you would think that would be the most useful because he was more mature, closer to what he is now. But the farm's different because last year the farm had soybeans all over it and it was wide open. This year
has corn and there's all sorts of cover. So I'm thinking to myself, well, does his behavior last year is that the most helpful because he was four, or should I actually be looking at him when he was three because that was the time he had the same habitat there was corn, And so I'm trying to think, like, maybe I should be paying attention to what he did
when it was last corn. What are your thoughts on that and the impact of that crop rotation and how that may or may not impact, you know, an annual pattern of some type.
Yeah, I would say you look at both of those, you kind of weigh all that out together and see if there's anything that you see he did on both ears, you know, maybe that's maybe that's what you look at. But on yours that are corn, you're always going to have more deer in there. I shouldn't say always, but most of the time when you get to that cold weather,
they gravitate toward corn. I used to tell my neighbors, you know, my friends and stuff, that they would have these great food plots and all these beans and stuff, and their neighbor had all this corn. I'd be like, dude, you've got to have corn. I'm telling you if you don't have corn on your farm, you're at a disadvantage because they will there's a time of year they will gravitate to corn and that's where they'll be. So I like your odds this year with corn on that farm.
Yeah, when you've got corn that you can control, which I'm thinking you do have. I guess, hey, do you have plots that you planted in corn or own that you can mow or manipulate in some kind of way. And if so, is there anything you do to take advantage of that? Because I know a lot of folks will cut down corn in front of their blind at a certain time of year, or they will have a you know, access routes or a hub of a wheel type design and using standing corn in a strategic way.
Have you ever done that?
Yeah, yeah, quite a bit. Actually, the hub of the wheel thing is one that's pretty killer. You have all these paths coming into your blind set up or your tree stand. That's a lot of fun because they will actually use those. You know, they're not going to fight the corn, especially a buck like lockness. It's that wide. He can't even go down the rows corn rows, and so these paths like that, I mean, I didn't have any set up for him, but I've done that in
the past and it works very good. You can even do that in soybeans, even though they can walk right through them. They just like walking down a wide open path. It just seems easiest for them. You know. Path of least resistance. That's one of those terms that you know, we've been using for I don't know, twenty five thirty years.
You know when you read articles and all that they take the path at least resistance, just like when you're walking through the timber and you ser club around the head of a ditch path least resistance, that's the same thing they're going to do nine out of ten times.
Are there any other examples of you making paths of least resistance where you want them?
Oh? Yeah, for sure. Crossings ditch crossings would be a big one. Where you know, maybe you've got a food plot in a ditch and erosion ditch and you need access to it a farm access. Well, I'm going to manipulate where I put that farm crossing just so happens to be by a really good tree, you know. So yeah, that's something you can do.
Yeah, driving for your green plot yeah.
Yeah, drove through the green plot to make tracks. So hopefully they'll walk down those you know again path to least resistance. Yeah, good point.
Yeah, and they they'll take that little tire track just a little bit easier. Huh.
Yeah. It's surprising the things that they'll do that you would think, well, they can walk across the green just as easy. But they're just by nature, they're just lazy or conservative. I would say that they're just smart. They can serve energy, you know.
All Right, So the next thing I'm curious about, I'm going to keep on taking you down the path of my hunt and using your hunt to help my hunt.
I'm hunting a specific buck. Like I mentioned, I just told you one of the things I'm thinking about, and one of the constant struggles is that it's a fun struggle, but it's one of the things that I stay up late thinking about, is trying to make the decision of where to hunt this year, right, and so kind of similar to your hunt with Lockness, I have a pretty strong idea of you know where I think he's betted
a lot of the time. He's got his pocket that he owns now, it seems like but then it's on any given day, where do I hunt around that pocket?
Right?
You look at wind and you say, okay, these are the places I could safely hunt with the wind. But then you're trying to make the determination, well, is he going to go east on this day or west this day? Or is he going south this day? I'm curious when you were thinking about Lockness or some of your other deer. There's a better example. What does your decision making process look like when trying to make that call? Where do
I hunt on this given day? I know his core, but now I'm trying to pick you know, the spot within that zone. Can you walk me through the criteria you're looking at and how you specifically zone in on the perfect place for today?
As you alluded to, you know the wind direction and all that stuff's pretty standard. You know, I've got to hunt this on this wind direction. I think if you can pin down worries likely to be feeding, or if you're getting pictures of him feeding there, that sure helps an awful lot because now you can kind of put a line of travel together, even though maybe you don't know exactly where he's betting. Maybe you know the hub or the general woodlot where he's betting. So now you
can start to pick. Okay, maybe he's using this path or this way to get to that food. And a lot of times if you can get closer to the betting area, all the better. I've seen some really big mature bucks that won't feed out into like an egg
field with the rest of the deer. I'll see those come through, and maybe smaller bucks and stuff no feed out up into a field agfield, and they're all up there and the big mature buck is just standing down there wasting time making scrapes rub and he's just on the edge of the betting, you know, and he's waiting for dark and then he's going to walk out. You know. Of course that all changes during the rut. I mean,
that's why so many big deer get killed. But closer you can be to that betting area with that scenario, I think the better off you are.
What about this, What about a situation where there's not just that one food source that he's hitting, where it's not just a line of from A to B. What if it's like there's a B and a C and a D and an E and he's got like three or four different options how do you try to approach a hunt like that? Because I've sometimes found myself in a situation like that where I'll be like, Okay, well today I'll hunt B, and then tomorrow hunt C, and the next day I'll hunt D. Or I'll chase a
picture or something else. See I had a dailight picture of him two days ago at A. So I go to A and then he's he's at C, and then I will go and hunt him at C, and then you know he's at D. Do you like do you bounce around like that too? If a buck has multiple lines he might be taking. I kind of have a lot of spots where it's like a hub of a wheel situation where the buck's bedroom is at that hub. But then on any given day, he's got an option to go north or south or east or west. Do
you chase him around? Or are you the type that likes to pick one spot and give it three days in a row because eventually he'll cycle through.
Yeah. I don't hunt three days in a row on a given spot very often. I mean, I think you can look at that historical data and see if you can find anything. Okay, he was here on this day and sometimes you can put steak in that that's a good, you know, good way to go about it. But I think more than anything in that scenario is you just got to put your time in. I really think there's no magic secret sauce to it. You just got to
be there. I mean, there's so much of it, you know, goes about you can talk about, you know, what a great hunter you're on in all this, but so much of it goes back to just that great and determination of just being there when the opportunity presented itself.
You know, for me going back to again the beginning of this conversation, for you, you can put that time in though that maybe other guys aren't going to see the same results because you paid attention to your entrants to your exit. I think that's why you're able to hunt so many different spots, whereas like a guy like me, it's like, well if I go in there, man, I'm
worried about bumping them out. You know, you bounce around so much and have so much success though, because you're, like we talked about, the deer don't know you're.
There, right, It's like you're never for there. Yeah, I agree with that, Yep.
How many hunts did it take this season before you killed Lackness? Is it three?
I think I want to say it was five hunts, maybe four days? In five hunts we hunted one morning for him.
Okay, could you walk me through each of those five hunts and just tell me why you hunted each specific spot, like what your thought process was, why you thought that would be a place to kill, and how you were able to get in and out and pull off each of those hunts. I think that might be a useful example.
Yeah, I mean, so, I think I've got a daylight pattern on him on that green source. You know, if you look back to a couple of weeks prior, I had a bunch of pictures of him in daylight on that green source. So of course I'm thinking, if he keeps doing that, I've got a really good shot to see him. You'll get a crack at him. And so the first time I hunted, I think was the third October. Third we had that real warm weather. It was high eighties. I didn't hunt the first two days, you know, I
don't want to do more harm than good. And it finally cooled down about ten degrees. So we went into that green source on the south wind and hunted the tree stand that we set up on the main show, you know, when Josh was with me, and I thought that was the right spot to catch him where he'd been coming out, which he came out both times we've seen him, he came out of that side. He never did show up that day, so he was in there later after dark and maybe that just goes back to
the temperature, you know, he was just moving nocturnal. So that was day one. Day two, I believe, we went and hunted. I actually set a different spot because I thought I knew where he was betting. So I went and hunted a spot where I could watch a big field if he moved. If he wasn't, I'm thinking, okay, he's not moving through this green source in daylight right now.
Maybe he just shed his velvet went nocturnal. I want to be able to watch an area where I think is close to where he's betting, and see if he's coming out a different direction.
Maybe.
You know, generally they're moving some during daylight, you know, even during this time of year, it's just not far. And so I set a spot where I could just watch quite a bit of area it's just open with a lot of honey locust and brush and stuff. And we sat there and had a real slow hunt. I remember saying, you know, when you're hunting a deer like this, it's just not social. He's not around a lot of
other deer. Doesn't really bother me to get skunked. Even we've seen a couple deer, but you know, to see that one deer as all year after. And so that's why I set that. And he didn't work out, but I thought maybe we'd gained some valuable information, you know. Day three, we went into actually went into his bedroom where I thought he was bedding. We're going to be on the downwind edge of it. Got in there nice and early, and the weather just didn't turn out that day.
It would start picking up, crazy wind, thunderstorm came in. So what happened thunderstart boom, and I said, we're out of here. I'm not setting in the tree in this gust and wind, you know. So we just got down and left that morning. And of course you worried did you do any harm that day? You know, anytime you're going in the dark, you don't want to bump into him, and so you know that was that was the concern for sure.
Yes, So before you go any further on, can you tell me why you were willing to swing that seems like a pretty big swing. You went in on a morning hunt in early October into his bedroom. Why were you willing What made you want to take that aggressive of a move at that point the season with those conditions.
I just felt like, if he's living in that that's small of an area. I think you just have a chance to kill him. If you're going to go in right where he's moving, He's going to move some in daylight once he gets into that cover, I think you have a very good chance of seeing him. And you know, I'm just willing to take that risk. I've got, you know, high confidence that if we see him, we're going to get a crack at him in this small of an area.
And that was the front end of that weather change too.
That was yeah, yeah, yeah, you have the weather patterns, thought maybe it'd have him up on his feet a little more.
What was your axis an exit to get into there before he did, hopefully, and then how'd you get out of there without possibly spooking him?
Well, it's the same as most It just a an erosion ditch just dropped in and erosion ditch walked it up and there again the tree stand. Like I talked about before, there's a lot of times right on the edge of these ditches or creeks. So when you get down out of the tree, just dropped into this creek, walk the drainage all the way out. Yeah, that's what we did that matter of fact, we got down there.
It was a little it was a little fore corn or something's better right by the tree, and we've got down, walked out and never even bumped him.
Yeah, it's nice to have those dishes. I wish we had more of those by me. Okay, So that was day three or hunt three. Uh, what was next?
So then we went back to the green source. I still didn't know where he was at this point. I remember this is when I was, you know, texting Josh, kind of freaking out where to go he disappeared. Can I turn my cell cams back? I didn't say that, but you know, you're you're kind of second guess your decision at that point. You're like, man, did I mess up? Because it's a deer of a lifetime and obviously you don't want anything bad to happen. Anything could happen, the
HD gets caught in a fence or whatever. So we go back to the green source, but now we have instead of the southern winds we had, now it's out of the west northwest, so we've got a switch where we can set. We can't hunt the tree stand anymore because it cuts right across the green source, and so we go down and hunt the blind. I ended up getting him otto that we had an encounter. You know, that night we ended up seeing him. I didn't think
he was going to show. I closed out the segment my blog, so you know, he's a no show today and there's there's ten minutes left probably in autipops.
And so how was that blind positioned in relation to you know, where he thought he was a bad ed? Like? Why was that blind where it was?
And that was there historically? I mean the reason it was where it was is because it's close to the creek. It sets you up kind of in the middle of that plot, so you can get movement coming from either direction. It's a kind of an L shaped or boomerang, and so it's in that little hub in the middle and then it's backed up to a creek, and so that had been there for several years. We didn't just set that up for him, you know, all of a sudden.
Okay, so you see the buck, he's out there after dark. I saw the video where you waited a long time to make sure he was gone, and then you had you had a great exit route out of there, and I understand you have prepared a second vehicle to ensure you could get out of there. Smart. Can you talk about your two vehicle excess strategy?
Yeah, you know, I just thought about it, you know, in advance, I said, and what if we get pinned down in that blind, We've got to have another place we can get out and walk this creek, which is why the blind is there to start with, is so you can exit on that creek. So I just, you know, did that in advance. I said, let's just play it, Smart, go park this other vehicle there. If we have to walk out that way, it's there, and then we'll just drive back to the main vehicle we used to get in.
And so what struck me when we talked about that was your entrance is right across the plot, which some people might be like, you're walking across the area that these deer are going to go feed. You know, you talk about leaving scent trails and disturbing where your deer is going to be, you know, talk about that where the entrance is, because I think the geographic features influence that you walk in on the mode or just the
driven path, right, paying attention the scent. I mean again, these are along those lines of like I feel like you're just like, that's what I do. It is me as a hunter. I' mike, why would you walk across the food? How'd you get away with that? Why they just walk right? And why'd you leave? Because the way you exit died was completely different? Right, And I talk about that too, I.
Think, yeah, I mean it, just like you said, this is what we do all the time, is these paths, whether it's a path you just drive in on so you have you know, no vegetation or very little, and then just being meticulous about your sink control, I think is a big deal. I started when I got out here, I wasn't meticulous. You know, sprays were just starting to come out, and I would have deer track me to
my tree stand. All the time. They cut your trail, you know, and then you have to start figuring out ways to get in or they're not going to cut your trail. You know, that was your entry route then is to go around, or they're not going to come
across your trail. And so once we started being meticulous about the boots and the pant legs and all that and keeping the vegetation low, I found that we can get away with just cutting right across the plot if you do that, you know, and I watch them cut my trail all the time, and of course, poor Devin a lot of times, I'm like, dude, when I walk across this, you got to be in the same path as me, because I want one cent trail. If you overhear the wife need from me, I'm gonna be like, dude,
what are you doing here? You know, that's just how ridiculous in the attention to detail it. You know we are. So it works though, that's the thing. We see it over and over. They just don't cut that. And then you know, getting in, like Josh alluded to, there's just topography there. They can't see you. And then when you get farther down the hill there's cedars in there. They really can't see it. On a on a west or northwest wind. You got a good wind for it too.
Even though it's at your back, it's still blowing into an area that there shouldn't be any dear bedded and.
So, okay, like that, seeh I hear that. I'm like, you walked in with the wind at your back. You never hear that, right.
And you went that way just because you knew that was the only way to get in there without having to walk through the bedding, but also not have him wins you.
Correct. Yeah, Now the way we exit through the creek, you do have to go through betting, you know, like you said, if you walk in that way, you probably bump deer and so, but when you walk out that way, the deer are gone by then, and so it's a great, great way to get out of there.
So you see him, it's after dark, you slip out down to the creek. You're you're did you feel really confident you got out of there without without him spooking? Or were you kind of like, well, I sure hope he didn't see us climb out of the tree. How how confident were you with your exit?
I felt great about it. We got out and climbed out and didn't hear a peep, and we knew he was still in the field, just up the hill farther, you know, because I was putting bay nose on him, and we never heard anything when we got out of there. And uh, of course when I when I seen that, and I felt we got out clean. I felt really good already about the next day's hunt. You'll probably see that in the interview, you know. I'm like, tomorrow sets up really good. It's still cool. He didn't know we
were there. I think we got a real good shot at him.
So here's the biggest question of the whole podcast. How do you get your cameramen not to take forty five minutes to get out of the tree and make tons of noise while they're trying to do it?
Oh? Yeah, you know, you just got to be patient. I mean, you're gonna make It's just the way it goes, you know.
All that camera gear.
I'm probably all the time needling. I'm like, hey, could you make some more noise please?
Yeah. Not not easy to have two people up there and all that gear and all that extra time, and it's constantly giving me a heart attack worrying about that. But okay, so you did you have like zero questions like we're going we're coming back to the same place tomorrow, or was there any part of you that thought, like, well, he doesn't usually do two things in the earth, He doesn't do the same thing day after day. Right, you
hadn't been seeing anything that consistent from the past. So did any part of you think like, I should try to go somewhere else because he will do something different, or were you very confident he'll do the same thing tomorrow.
I was pretty confident, or at least I thought we had a good shot do the same thing, you know, after we saw him and we had the same conditions the next day, I felt good about him doing the same thing. Okay, doesn't always work that way, as you know, but yeah, sometimes it does.
Now I want I want before we talk about the good news, I want to imagine a bad news scenario. So imagine you went back in the next day, you hunted that spot, and you did not see him. What would your strategy have looked like over the next couple of weeks if you had not killed Lockness? How would you what? What were you thinking? Like, I'm sure I'm guessing you're like me in that during the hunt, I'm already planning, well, what do I have to do tomorrow or next week or the next time I can hunt
if this doesn't work out? What was your game plan going to be moving forward if you didn't get him killed on that day?
Well, if you go back to the day before, where I didn't even know if he still existed, my game plan was to go check some cameras right there on that plot and see if he had been on that scrape again where he was consistent. Now, I just wanted to know he was alive and in the area, and then you know, that particular day, if he doesn't show up, I think I just keep hunting him the same way. I think I know where he's betting, So you just keep hunting the fringes of that taking your shots at him.
You know, I mean, nothing's ever one hundred percent, so you just keep taking your highest odds. You know, That's always what I talk about, is picking the spot where you have the highest odds. And you know that's what I would have done.
And how how do you balance And we've talked about this, I guess, but how aggressive would you continue to be through October. Would you literally hunt every night or every day throughout October because your access and exus is so good, or at any point do you back off for a while and wait for something better. A lot of people like will only take their shots when they've got like this perfect weather condition or something, so they'll take a
handful couple few shots throughout the month or something. Are you literally day after day after day?
Not terrible weather? In my mind? You know, like the first couple of days where it's ninety degrees, I mean, I feel like there's low chance that he's going to move in daylight, which you know, you never know. You could still kill him if you're out there, but at some point you know there's just too much risk not enough reward and that, you know. So I've got to have at least good weather conditions to go after him,
And so that's usually what I go with. If I feel like I have a good day where he would move, now, I'm gonna hunt somewhere.
What's good enough, Like what's that threshold where it's huntable?
I think for this time of year, if you've got stuff in the sixties, you know, especially high pressure, a switch in wind direction, you know, all the things we talk about, some of the triggers, anything like that I think is good enough to give it a shot.
Speaking of triggers, what are the most important things in your mind when it comes to that trigger that you think will really send him over the edge and maybe make you be more aggressive than usual. You mentioned changeing wind direction. Do you give much credit to pressure or cold fronts or any kind of moon thing or anything else.
Yeah, I think number one for me is that cold front, that temperature differential and you go from ninety down to fifty or you know, anything like that. I think that is a trigger that gets almost all of them up on their feet. Even the most nocturnal bucks will usually be up and move it on those those cold fronts. I've killed several of them on cold front like that, so I'm a big believer in them. And then I
do love the high pressure as well. When you start getting multiple things together, I think it just gets stronger and stronger. I like a rising moon in the evening. If you've got that too, then I just have to be out there at that point.
Okay, so you're going to keep hunting based on wind direction, based on you know, making sure we've got huntable conditions. What do those stand sites look like as the month progresses.
Is there just a circle or a semi circle around his bed that you're just kind of cycling through based on things, or are you going to get to a point in late October or November where it dramatically changes in some kind of way because they're shifting from a you know, October bed tofeed pattern to a rut type pattern.
I think in this particular case, it would probably look the same because there's a lot of does there and so there's no reason for him to leave in this case. But you know, to your point, there are cases where, yeah, you're hunting them where he's at, but he's not around
a lot of doughs. So he's going to be somewhere where you want to start hunting the does, you know, And that's always my strategy as we get toward late October, is I want to be hunting somewhere where we're going to see does and somewhere where there's a little pinch, whether it be a farm access road, you know, some kind of crossing. I like to couple those two things together, you know, So if they're just out cruising and there are no doughs, you still got a chance to catch him.
Or if there's dos out there and he comes out bumps them around, you got a chance to catch him. So it's just about upping your odds, I think, is the way I look at it. You know, what can you do or where can you hunt to just ups your odds that much more?
Can you describe for me an example of us You gave me a loose example there, but could you discuss a specific stand site for that time of the year that has that kind of like multiple stacked features. There'd be a great one of your actual great spots for that rut time period. Let's say, like for Lockness, what would be your best spot to kill Lockness in November if you had still had to hunt him at that point. Could you describe what that might look like.
Yeah, I don't know if I've got a great spot for lock just off the top of my head. But if you go back to like where I killed the Wide nine is a perfect example of where I would hunt for that time of year. We've got these access roads that cut through between field to field, and so they follow those around the edge of the creek. So you've got the access and you're on food sources, so
you've got the dose. So you have that's a perfect example, and I have that on either end of that field, there's the same kind of setup, which those are my favorites of that time of year. You get into the rut or late October love of.
Those and all those cross things they're in bow range.
Yeah, yep, exactly right.
Yeah, that's pretty dynamite. Now, what about if we were to take that same question, but I asked you, you know where that would be, where like a deal spot to kill them would be. Let me look here at the calendar. So if this podcast is going to come out October nineteenth, so this podcast will come out October nineteenth,
twenty twenty three. If someone's listening to this the day it comes out, and they're going to hunt this coming weekend, which would be Friday the twentieth, or Saturday the twenty first, or Sunday the twenty second, so they're listening to this before they're heading out for their weekend hunt, described to me the ideal setup you would have tried for that date range. And if there's a standsite you can think of that you could describe in detail, that would be perfect for those dates.
Yeah, I think you know where I ended up killing him from. Just south of that or north of that actually is a south wind setup. It's right there, kind of like what we talked. It's a go between. It's on a food source, but there's a nice trail that goes into some bedding, you know, a good, good entry and exit. Again, I mean, I'm still gonna be hunting around food that time of year. It's not you know, November seventh, where I want the best funnel there is
on the farm. I still want to be around the food source because again, he just want to up my odds. So if he comes out to feed and he's not fired up on you know, because a lot of times a six year old buck he knows when the time's right as far as the dose are concerned, where the two and the three year olds are going berserk, you know, So he might just come out and feed and doesn't care about the dose yet. So I want to be on that food source so you can catch that. But
I also want the dose around. So if that particular food source maybe you're hunting an oak flat or something and there's no doze in there, I don't like that scenario either, because you can't cash in on the dough scenario, so I want both of those.
Yeah, I'm stuck on something you mentioned a little while ago, which was that you wouldn't hunt a spot three times in a row, but you did have an example where you would set a spot two days in a row. And you also have talked about how you've got this great access and exit routes where you can hunt generally over and over and over again in this area because you've designed it and you've planned it in a good way.
So I'm curious to better understand when you will hunt someplace again, because like, imagine I'm not hunting October twenty first, and I'm hunting a spot like you've described. Let's say I do see some doze and I see some young bucks, but I don't see the buck theme after and conditions are consistent in the next couple of days, and I can sneak out of there and I feel like I got out. The question is like, Okay, do I try somewhere brand new or do I just stick it out
here for another day? Because like he didn't come today, but he very well could come tomorrow. Like, how when do you ever stick it out in a spot for more than that one day, And how do you think about that?
Yeah, I think it's there. Again, you're just weigh in your odds. In a lot of times, it's dependent on the wind. If the wind stays the same, maybe you're limited to just a couple of options, you know. And so I like to bounce around to keep areas fresh. Even though we have the great access and all that. Maybe you could hunt it five days in a row without burning it out, But you know, that's the biggest concern is you know, maybe you do get dose to
get down window specific spot or whatever. You know, So if you can bounce around and keep them fresh, that's ideal to me. But like in this case, you said, you know, I hunted to two days in a row just because I thought the odds were so good that he'd step out again. And so there are times where you're just weigh in the odds that's the best place to be. And then so I'm just going to go hunt it again.
Okay, I heard you say, and I'm going to get the exact wording wrong, so you're gonna have to correct me in the exact wording. But you've said something like all these these old bucks they put on their pants all the same way or something like that. Before I say anymore, can you tell me the right way? What's the saying exactly?
They put on their fur one leg at a time like all the other six year old bucks.
Okay, there you go. So why do you say that? Like, what do you mean by that? What's the message? Like you're trying to remind yourself of when you say that? And then secondly, how did that help you when it came to hunting this lockness buck?
Yeah? You know, I guess what I mean by that is they probably don't behave any different than a different six year old buck. We know, we get so intimidated because a deer has two hundred inch or bigger antlers. You know that we're scared to death to do anything. But another six and a half year old buck that's one hundred and twenty inches might act the same way. You know, we all know. Yeah, you're not as intimidated and you can kill him. But when it comes to
this great big buck, can you kill him? You know, and you feel all the pressure, you're more nervous, and rightfully so, because it's such a rare thing. But you know, I think that that thinking just lets you know that he's still just a six year old buck. There's nothing special about the way he thinks. Even though you know a lot of bucks are individuals, they might do things different than others, but as a general to put them in a general class, you know, they're basically all six
year old bucks. And I think that helped just keep me calm in the moment too. It's like, you know, he's just a normal deer. You know, I can hit him just like I hit Wide nine and all these others.
Yeah, so I understand you did you do a lot of work to make sure you can handle moments like that. Can you describe some of the things that you did this year or in past years to make sure that your moment of truth ability is as high as possible? Because a lot of people shoot in their backyard a bunch. But is that enough? What else do you do?
Yeah? I don't think it's enough. Of course, you can't overestimate experience being there, you know, time and time again obviously helps you a lot. But there's things I think you can do to prepare for that, And it's what I call pressure practice. You try to put yourself under
the most pressure you can. Granted you can't always have a two hundred inch deer in front of you that kind of pressure, but you know, shooting a lot of three d's, I would go to the ASA shoots and you know that's I love to come in better than I did the previous time. So it's pressure to me because you know, I want to score the best possible. I'd like to win. I mean, I'm competitive guy. You know, I played sports and all that, So just the most
pressure possible. I remember shooting the course out here and had devon film and I said, Devin, I just I want you to come up and try to create the most pressure possible. You get right in my face with the camera. I know everybody's watching me. You can't act like you know, well, I don't know if this is getting filmed or whatever. You know, you're right in your eyeball and so well, it's just a little bit more pressure.
And I think a lot of times that's the difference between freaking out when he comes out and saying, heah, I've been here a hundred times and it's just another shot. You know.
It astounded me with how long the encounter was usually you always hear people say it's easier to hold that cool and he pops out kill him. Yeah, that dude was out front of you for how long?
It's about half an hour.
There's no way I would have been able to keep that What was going through your mind during that half hour?
On Oh just I was just excited to be there, really. I mean, like we talked about it, been forty years into making, just being a diehard, you know, bow hunter, just fall in love with deer hunting and dreaming of this time, and there he stands right in front of me, and I'm glassing him, smiling and just just happy to be there. You know, it just feels so so fortunate.
Really in that moment, did it any time you have some self talk where you had to say, don't screw this up owen or anything like that, or relocked in confident you were in it?
I was super confident, and I know I said on another podcast, I didn't want that to come across arrogant, you know, like, yeah, you know, I'm the best shot in the world, whatever. I don't feel like that. But you know, you know, when you put so much work into it, you have a certain level of confidence and that's how I felt. I kept kept thinking like, if he gives me an opportunity, I don't think he's getting
out of here. Is how I felt about it. You know, soul, Yeah, anything can go wrong, see, I mean, you never know, But of course I think you always have a little bit of doubt creeps in the back of your mind, right, I really hope something doesn't go wrong here, I mean, because anything can happen.
Yeah.
Yeah, how many times have you had like the field filling up just perfect, and you know the buck you're after is gonna come out, and then that coyote comes running out or something.
Right, exactly right, or that one dough starts out.
Yeah, yes, there's that one dough usually, so you got them, you got the buck. I'll save any more details for the episode that that I think will be out on YouTube by the time this podcast airs.
Right, Josh, Yes, on Monday.
So if anyone hasn't seen the video yet, you absolutely should go to the Midwest White Tail YouTube channel and check that out. But tell me this, Owen, you've had a little bit of time now to look back on it and kind of marinate in this whole experience. What's the greatest lesson you learned from this buck in this hunt.
Man, I don't know. I might have to give that some thought. Really, I don't know that I have a quick answer for that. I mean, i'd say one that might throw you off a little bit is how much I appreciate people and friends now. So it's a little off topic from the deer, but it just it's been so awesome having all the people reach out and having the friends with me on the recovery, you know, losing my parents a couple of years back. Is just it changed me in a way that it just made me
appreciate people more. And I think that's been the big takeaway this whole thing for me is just I've appreciated people in the whole thing. Yeah.
Yeah, that's a great reminder and a great reminder put things in perspective too. As much as these big deer get us excited and obsessed, there are bigger things in the world that matter a whole lot, those relationships being right there at the top.
Yeah.
All right, So with that said, the though, and I want to bring us back to deer though with one last question, which I think will tie a bow on all this really nicely I think what this conversation I think has done for me is giving me a lot of good ideas to think about when you're chasing that one special deer, and how your whole history as a hunter has led you to be in a position where all the work over the decades, and all the work over the last six years in this property, and all
the work this year to get prepared for this single deer, it all culminated to this moment. I imagine there's a lot of folks listening who have their own version of that story. The specifics are different, but they've got their own version. They've got their own lockness. You know, my lockness is one hundred and forty inch ten year old ten pointer. Someone else's lockness might be one hundred and
seventy inch twelve pointer. And there might be someone else listening who their lockedness is one hundred and ten inch three year old to be their biggest buck ever, and they are so excited to get after that deer to someone who's after that one special buck for themselves this year, what would be the three pieces of advice or the three rules you could write down if you guys were sitting at the dinner table together talking to this person, and you had a napkin in front of you, and
you could write three things on that napkin and hand it to him and say, hey, just do not forget these three things. What would those three things be.
Well, I know what one of them would be for sure, and I know Josh and I we've talked about this before. But it's definitely attention to detail. If you can be meticulous and pay attention to everything, I think you're way ahead of the game with any buck, really, and it's especially the buck of a lifetime. I think that resonates with me. The other thing, like we just talked about, is he puts on his for one leg at a time, like every six year old buck, you know. Just you
got to think about him like another deer. Even though he's your buck of a lifetime and maybe you'll never top it or whatever, he's still killable like other deers. So I mean, you hunt him like you would another six year old buck, you know. And then the other thing maybe is just the determination and the grit, because I've been in that situation a lot of times before. You're hunting a great, big buck fuck and he's not cooperating.
And just keep going every day out there, just keep after him and don't give up on it would be my other words of.
Advice, wise words, wise words. I am so happy for you, Owen, that this hunt came together for you, and I'm appreciative that you were willing to talk about it here with me and the folks listening and to kind of humor me with all my crazy questions about it. I've definitely enjoyed it.
Humbled by it, man, I sure appreciate it. And Josh, thank you to be hearing that.
Yeah, and so that's a perfect segue to you, Josh, can you give folks the rundown of where he is? Said at once? But where can folks see the film the video about this hunt? And where are all the many other places and things that folks can be looking for from Midwest White Tail?
Yeah? Well, this particular episode will come out on Monday. What would that be for the sixteenth? That can be found on the middlest White Tell YouTube channel. That'll also be available on Carbon TV, Waypoint TV, so pretty much different places you can stream Real Tree three sixty five. But another thing to know would be, you know, Owen's got another tag and my favorite thing personally to fall along with is his daily blog. You can find that
on the Middlest White Till Daily channel. That's where you're a little bit more of a goofball and.
Oh yeah, he's always so serious on camera, you know, and so humble but man like one thing on the Napkin discussion that I think you emulate more than most folks that I've got the chance to work with.
Youually have so much fun doing it. Yeah, I mean like that. There's very few times that, no matter the circumstance, I haven't seen you just intrinsically enjoy doing it, being out there hunting.
Truly love being out there. Yeah, there's no way to hide it.
And so yeah, I've never letched. I've never seen you let adversity or something going wrong getting the way of that. But that daily chain is a great place to follow along if you want to number one, see what he's doing every day. But number two, you're pretty engaging with questions there, and I think that that's very very cool that you take the time to respond to different folks. And obviously Milviles Whitel website and we're trying to do a good job on the social channels bringing things a
little bit more real time or being more accessible. So those are the spots I really appreciate you guys, love me be here. I'm in it. I didn't really bring much to the table. I mean, I just got to sit and listen to two guys that got a lot of respect for and you know, it's it's pretty cool to see two different paths, both coming from Michigan living the dream you set out to live. I mean, obviously you're a little bit further into the journey, but you
know it, this is an inspiring one. If somebody wanted to put that scope on for sure.
Yeah, well thanks for that, Josh, and thank you Owen. I'm excited to watch the video when it comes out. And sure it's only a matter of time till tag number two gets filled on. I would not want to be a deer on any of the farms that you hunt, that's for sure.
That's so.
All right, and that's gonna do it. Thank you for joining me. Hope you enjoyed this podcast. I hope you've been out there enjoying this great cool weather that at least a lot of us across the country have been having this fall so far, it's looking good heading into the pre rut here the end of October. Get out there, hunt hard. The rut is just ahead of us, so get ready for it. That best time of year is almost here. Until then, stay wired to hunt