Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the White Tail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host Mark Kenyon.
Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm your guest host, Tony Peterson, and today I'm speaking with Ted Zangerly of the hunting public about developing a blended scouting strategy that takes into account all of the tools at our disposal. Hey, everyone, welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you by first Light. If you haven't heard, first Light just released the Origin pant, which I thought was like a little bit crazy when I first got my
hands on them. They're almost like wearing i don't know, pajamas or sweatpants and could be a midlayer, but also function pretty damn well as an outer layer. And I'm being honest here when I say when I first saw him, I was like, I don't think I'm gonna like these, but I gave him a good test run in South Dakota last year, and then in Minnesota, then in Wisconsin, and now I wear them all the time. When I'm scouting.
Check them out if you want a versatile piece of hunting gear that you definitely don't currently have in your camel arsenal. So that's right, mister Kenyon. He's off again this week. He's actually out somewhere, and I don't know where because he won't talk to me. Mark is a little salty because we recently were in the Meat Eater office out there in Bozeman and we got invited to
be on an episode of Meat Eater Trivia. Now, before we got on the mics, Mark told me that he had the whole thing in the bag and that, you know, me and Cal and Chester and Seth and everybody who was on the podcast. You know, we were all basically fighting for second place. Those are his words, not mine. Now, I'm not gonna spoil it for you, but let's just say this. It didn't quite go according to Mark's master plan. I don't know, probably because he doesn't really read a
whole lot, so he's never learning very much. I don't know. Anyway, give that a listen and keep listening here because I have one of the unsung heroes of the hunting public, Ted Zangerly. Ted is the quiet guy. Who just kind of gets the job done. And while he's a young fellow, he has a ton of experience hunting white tails in
multiple states. Throughout this episode, we dive into his strategy for scouting at home and on the road, and we get into the weeds on topics like trail cameras and managing pressure and figuring out where bucks end up when they aren't where you expect them to be. Basically, we talk about scouting in a way that takes into account the tools we have available to all of us, while mixing in real world observations and boots on the groundwork. I think you're gonna love listening to this one because
Ted is such a good source of real world info. Ted, how you doing, buddy, No.
I'm doing great. How are you doing?
I'm good man. I'm happy to catch you at home. Finally we've been we've been playing uh, I guess phone tag a little bit here because you, uh, you know anybody who doesn't know you THHB boys sent you tend to travel around quite a bit, and we got you at home and I want to talk deer scouting with you, but but you just said something to me off air that we got to touch on a little bit. You
said you were going to go fishing with diddy poles. Yeah, I need you to explain that to me and the rest of the audience.
All right, Well, yeah, so I'm actually back home for a little bit here. I've been home for the last week or so, and I got ahold of a buddy this weekend and we're going to go set ditty poles, which is I think a lot of people call them bank poles, but I don't know. That's just growing up.
That's what we've always done during the summer is go out and set diddy poles, which is just like a piece of small PBC pipe and then we'll cut the end off so it's a little bit of a point, and then we rig them up with fishing line and we'll go on the rivers and just drive them in the bank with a big mall drive them in the bank. And I think you can use like five per person
on each fishing license. So we'll probably set like ten poles this afternoon, and yeah, just go along the river wherever you see a good snag or see a good little eddy or something in the river, we'll just set the poles and put you know, live bluegill or some shrimp on there, and then come back by a couple hours later and check them, and then just do that however long we want to see what we catch.
Are you talking channel cats then? If you're using live bait.
Uh, yeah, hopefully we'll catch some flatheads. I think there's flatheads and channel cats around here for the most part. But yeah, live bait. Hoping to catch some flatheads if we can.
And I'm assuming since this is the style that you're using your fishing for them to eat them.
Yeah, yep.
Well, like, what's an average size there for you guys?
Oh? Man, that's a good question. I don't really Probably on average, i'd say like inches a foot long maybe.
Oh so they're pretty little, yeah, I.
Mean usually you'll catch some bigger ones. Maybe that wasn't an accurate estimate, But I honestly don't really know, because we don't ever really measure them. Usually it's just like you're going along and checking the poles and taking them off the hook and throwing them into the boat if they're big enough to eat.
But all right, let me ask you this a different way, then, what's the biggest one you've ever caught on a diddy pole.
The biggest one, I think it was probably around thirty pounds or something, and.
So in your your hand line and these in. Then obviously when you when you pull up there and you can tell there's one on there and you gotta you just throw on some gloves and pull them in or what.
Uh yeah, well we'll have a net, so we'll just the line doesn't go like real far in the water. Usually it's only a couple of feet down in the water. So you'll be going along checking them and looking for them as you're going along in the boat, and you'll see if you see one bobbing like a lot of times, they'll be bringing them way down in the water. So
you just pull over there. It's easier if you got another guy in the front of the boat because then the guy running the boat and just pull up and pinning the boat against the bank, and then the guy in the front can just pull them up and if they're big, or get the net and scoop them out of there and bring them in the boat. But if they're small, you just flip them right in. But yeah, it's pretty fun. Something done my whole life, so I like doing it.
Dude, it sounds fun.
Yeah, it really is fun, like some young kids in the boat too, because you can just go along and you'll see a pole bobbing in the water or something, and oh man, you get excited and seeing that, especially the young kids.
Do you ever can ny turtles?
I don't think I've caught it on the diddy poles. I've caught some saft shell turtles on rodd and reel a few times.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm taking my daughters over to Wisconsin later today and we're gonna do some brook trout fishing, and I'm gonna explain that this process to them because I think they would think that was freaking amazing because that is not the style of fishing we typically do.
Uh huh. I'm sure they'd enjoy it. It's it's a lot of fun. It's pretty relaxed. You know, you're not handling a rod and reel the whole time. So once you get them in the water, it's fun to just float by and check them.
So how long do you leave them out?
It just depends on how much time he got. But a lot of times, like growing up, we would go out and set them and then we'd camp on the river somewhere and we'd check them like all night, So every two or three hours you'd go out on the boat and check them. And that's how that's honestly, how he catch the most is checking them throughout the whole night because that's when their most act, it is nighttime.
So you know, that's what we usually do is check them every couple hours, depending on what we got going on that weekend. But you know, it's fun to go out and make a weekend of it and just camp on the river and check them on every every couple hours.
It's that sounds fun. Is is this a situation because you're you're reminding me of my day is growing up fishing, you know, the river and some other rivers in southeastern Minnesota where you know, and these rivers are like not catfish rivers, right you you'd fish trout in them, you know, earlier in the season and then as the water warms up. It tends to be sort of a small mouth thing, you know, And we used to catch saugers and some other stuff once in a while in there, but it
was primarily small mouth. But you know, if my buddies and I would camp on the river, you know, you throw out some you know, nightcrawlers or something at night, you know, fishing around the campfire, and it was just non stop catfish. And you'd never guess that there was that population of catfish in there if you just fished
it in the day. But as that sunsets, the whole thing changes, and it's just it was just so eye opening to see that there was this whole other world of fish that lived there that you just don't deal with if you're fishing at noon, throwing a top water for smallies or something.
Uh huh. Yeah, No, it's a lot of fun. It's something I look forward to doing every year. I mean, like, we just had a little bit of rain last night, actually a pretty good amount of rain. It was probably inter two. So the river should be coming up, which seems to be when we do the best is whenever the river's coming up, So.
Get a little bit more food washing down it and getting those fish more active.
I suppose. Yeah. I don't know the science behind it. I just seems like that's what when we have the most luck.
Man. That's I'm not often jealous of people going after catfish, but I like the idea that we should probably talk about deer scouting here, and you know, you and I talked a little bit before this. I mean, you're you're
kind of in the same boat. I think. I think people who are fans of THHP would think that you guys are are just scouting non stop, but you kind of you kind of go do some other stuff after Turkey season wraps up for a little while, and you guys did some pig hunting, and you were just saying that you're you're kind of getting getting ready to get back into the summer scouting mindset now here, as you know, kind of the midpoint of the summer passes by.
Yeah, so after Turkey season, a lot of times we all kind of split up and go our separate ways and go see family and whatever and take a little break. And then, like you said, we've been down in Texas hunting pigs and doing all that stuff. And now I've just been home for the last week or so. And then usually our intern for the year moves in about this time of year. I think our intern's coming on Monday, so we'll all or some of us will you know, be there whenever he shows up, and then we'll be
there for at least a week. Or so probably, and that's when we usually start diving back into summer scouting around home.
Do you you seem like the kind of guys who would have some kind of hazing thing or some kind of pranks you'd play on your interns, You guys have anything of that going on?
We don't have anything planned, but I'm sure there'll be something that comes up.
Yeah, I believe that those pigs you were just hunting. How was it handling them after you shot him? Because I've hunted him in the summer, you know, on like axis hunts and just other hunts, and they are just well, I should say this, I've seen him just crawling with ticks and just fleas and pretty gnarly, and I've seen him not like, how were the ones that you were dealing with?
There wasn't any ticks. I've never actually seen any ticks on them in Texas that's the only place I ever hunted them. But yeah, no, they're grimy, they're nasty things. Once you get up next to them, they're like just covered in mud and dry mud and everything, and they stink.
But yeah, we actually we didn't take any meat home this year, but in years past we usually take them back to the ranch wayam and whatever, and then we'll look at the shot and because that's the main thing that we're trying to do, is see how these broadheads work on different different broadheads work and see if, like if they went through a bone or how that all happened. So that's like our main thing that we're looking at.
But I know, Jake took quite a bit of meat back to Wisconsin to his dad a couple of years ago and smoked it up and that was really good.
Yeah, I mean, they're, you know, as gross as they are on the outside, they're pretty good eating on the inside. Did you see have you seen any like crazy anomalies? Did you see anything you know with your broadhead, your gear performance that that has given you pause or has it been pretty Has it been pretty consistent as far as performance.
It's pretty consistent. Seems like the single bevels definitely work the best as far as punching through bone. You know, But on those pigs, their's kill zone is so small, so you got to hit like this something the size of your hand about on them to actually kill them with the bow and arrow, it seems like, and kill them and find them, you know, down in the Texas brush. It can be pretty tough. But the craziest one to me that I shot it wasn't this year. It was a couple of years ago.
I hit it.
It was a really big pig and it came in and I had like a double bevel magnet, black hornet and like a five hundred and fifty grand arrow and I hit it good up and down, but it was just a touch forward and it hit it like right in a humor's ball. And I mean my arrow went in like about the length of the broadhead. It went in and snapped it off immediately, and that thing just ate it in my pretty much. My whole arrow came back out except for the broadhead, and that thing took
off and there wasn't blood or anything. I mean, he just took it and kept on. Seemed like so you didn't find him, not that one. Nope. Yeah.
Man, That's something I think people who don't have a lot of experience with pigs don't really realize, is you know, you kind of hear like, oh, they're tough, Like yeah, you know, you hit them in the shield, you might not get them or whatever. But it's like the wounding loss rate on pigs. If you have people who don't know what they're doing or they're not shooting very good, gear is pretty high.
Uh huh. Yeah. They've given me quite the headache. Last couple of years I shot I killed two the first year, we went down there right off the bat and found both those, and then last couple of years have have been a little bit of this struggle. Like this year, I shot one and hit him good and passed all the way through him except for the fletchings of my arrow,
and there was blood, like lung blood everywhere. And I tracked that thing for like three hundred yards through the brush and I mean there was tons of blood the whole way and I never could find him.
Yeah. Yeah, it's that's a different deal. I've hunted him quite a bit, and it to me, it's like I want that like perfect quartering away shot and like just if you slam into that off side shoulder, it feels like, you know, kind of halfway up, it's like they you know, they're like any other animal. Well then you know forty fifty yards and they're going to tip over a lot of times they tip over in sight. But if that margin for error on an animal like that is so
much smaller than some other critters. It's it's just a it's a really cool experience, but it is something that it like humbles you quick if you make a little mistake.
Well, yeah, for sure. No, it's been It's a lot of fun going down there and hunting them, but like you said, you gotta you gotta put a good shot out them, otherwise you are not going to come up with them.
Yeah, and they're you know when you say that, you guys are you know, kind of testing some broadheads out on them and taking a look, you know, post recovery on on what happened. And you know, you guys have the camera footage too, to see the exact shot as it happens. It's it's such an eye opener, you know when you when you get into that situation, especially if you have a lot of pigs, you know, I mean you you take most people and they go into deer season.
You know, they might only take a shot or two and you know maybe one works out, maybe one dozen or whatever. But you might go hog hunting and shoot four in a day, and you know, just get to kind of stack up some experience on seeing you know, like not only how do you perform in the moment, but how does your gear perform in a way that's just not you're not going to get that quantity, you know, like in a typical big game hunt.
Yeah. Yeah, it's a very It's a good place to go and test out your equipment for sure, and get some good practice in. Like you said, so, it's been a lot of fun going down there. We've been down there the last three or four years now and it's been definitely a learning experience.
Do you so you said you guys are weighing them down there when you when you get them back typically.
Yeah, at least this year, we were weighing them because we were like kind of having a little competition to see who could come back with the most weight and pig, and so we would weigh them. Every time we'd get one, we'd come back to the ranch and put them up on the scale and see how much they weighed.
What were the weights, Like, we had.
One that was one hundred and twenty pounds, one that was eighty five pounds, and then one that was one hundred.
And forty Okay, yeah, I mean the pig thing's weird, right, It's kind of It's kind of like bears, where everybody talks about the big like the big specimens, but you know, you go hunt pigs in most places, they probably average like one hundred pounds, you know, like everybody's like, oh, I want that three hundred pounds wild bore or that Russian boar or whatever, and then you go actually hunt them and you're like, they're just pigs and they're not
very big in most places. Uh huh, yeah, but they're pretty fun. We should probably talk about some deer scouting. Huh buddy, Yeah, let's do it. So you know, you guys are gonna end up in a ton of states every year, but you're gonna have some home hunting. You know, they're an eye, Well you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna
have two like vastly different version of scouting. I would say, where you have that home game advantage and you can get out there and you can look at stuff and find beds and you know, run some cameras and do the you know, the long range glassing thing, the whole process. But then you know, all right, we're gonna show up in North Dakota and Oklahoma and right on down the line. How do you manage like the home and away game that you guys have going on.
I would say, you know, like this next week, we're gonna just probably be scouting a bunch throughout Iowa, which a lot of these places that we're scouting when we're in Iowa, we've already hunted a lot, but it's just a matter of going back in there and just checking different pieces out, maybe that we haven't been into, like a corner of a piece that we've hunted before, going in there, checking stuff out and seeing what that looks like.
As far as managing, you know, our time here and and no one never going to travel, we try and get them. We try and get the states nailed down the four season as good as we can. That's one thing that we've been trying to do a little bit better job of, say, uh, these last couple of years, is actually having like a set plan, or at least somewhat of a set plan of where we're going to be going, so you know, looking at those states that
we're going to travel to. That's obviously just tons of looking at maps, seeing what the different public pieces look like, and just having as good of an idea of where you want to start once you actually go out there.
Are you finding that it's a little bit harder to plan for specific states right now because you just I mean, you've got to draw more states and a lot of non resident licenses are getting capped. Are you are you finding that it's like sort of a work in progress every year where you're like, well, we know we can get a Wisconsin tag, but now we don't know if we're going to get that Nebraska tag, and it's it's sort of a there's a lot of moving pieces to it.
Yeah, definitely. I mean there's been some states, like you said, that have gone to draws and whatever, so we can't just necessarily go out there and buy a tag. So that has been a little bit of a process trying to figure that out Each year as we go into the season, is trying to figure out, all right, we can maybe hunt here early, we could hunt over here
early potentially, depending on what those regulations look like. But yeah, so a lot of times we're waiting for the elk draws to come out, and then because we won't really we try not to think about the deer hunting stuff too much until the elk draws come out because it'll depend on who's got an ELK tag. Okay, they're going there, and then this person's got an elk tag, they're going
over here. So then after that all it's settled out, then we'll start looking at different states and trying to figure out where we can go in early September, and then so on and so forth.
I guess, yeah, that makes me tired of just thinking about it. When you when you look at you know, the early season whitetail opportunities always overlap with l hunts and you know some of the mule deer stuff and antelope. It's it's a lot to plan, and it's it's getting you know, I mean, obviously you guys are in a unique situation and so am I. Where it's you know, you're thinking about multiple states and multiple critters, and it's
it's a dumb thing to bitch about. I guess, like when you're like, oh, I got a hunt so much, it's hard to organize my schedule. But it's it's a
changing landscape out there, man. We and we've been talking about this a lot with the license availability, and I just I just had a conversation with my elk hunting partner who lives in Colorado, and he said he's been at some of the you know, Division Wildlife meetings or stakeholder meetings or whatever they are, and it sounds like by twenty twenty five, I've uh, Colorado's over the counter opportunities are going to be gone and everything is going
to be a draw. I don't I don't know if that's official yet, but you know, kind of the last domino to fall there in the elk world is going to be Colorado and it's coming. And so you know, anybody listening to this who's like, I want to go out and you know, chase an elk before I'm too old to do it. You get in the game now, somehow figure it, figure out how to get some points or do something, because this is going to get a lot harder real soon.
Yeah, which that is. That's unfortunate, man, because I I love el cutting and I I put in for Wyoming the last few years and I haven't got Wyoming yet. I was really hoping I would get it the last actually last year I put in for like a specific unit and I was looking at go hunting. It said, all right, you got one hundred percent draw odds for this, so I'm like, all right, I'm probably going elk cutting if I put in for this unit. So I put in for it, didn't get it. This year, I did
the same thing, not the same unit. I put in for the general out there, and it said I had real good odds of getting it.
I didn't get it.
Again, me and Zach both didn't get it.
So yeah, it's tough, dude. And this year, you know, I was just out in Bozeman for some medi eater stuff and a lot of the First Light people who are from Idaho were there, and a lot of them were talking about how hard it is for them as residents to get some of the tags that they just kind of take for granted, you know, like a rifle
cow tag and a certain unit or whatever. And when I was talking to my buddy the other day, he's like, man, you know, we had winter kill in certain parts of the West, just weird some weird weather events, fires and stuff, and he's like, it's really concentrating people in places where they could potentially get tags. So I think there are a lot of people out there this year who are surprised that they didn't draw tags that they probably would
have last year and every other year before that. But it's just it's tough out there, man.
Yeah, And it seems like it's just getting tougher, like you said, which is unfortunate, but that's just the way it goes. So I'm sure there's there'll be opportunities somewhere. It's just gonna be definitely a lot tougher.
But yeah, it's just it's just changing. Uh, you know, maybe maybe it'll level off. I kind of doubt it, but it is what it is. When you guys are making that run through Iowa and you're scouting public land down there, and yet you know you have the chance, like you said, to sneak into a corner here and look at this, or go back into a spot you
hunted the last couple of years. Do you see a lot of consistency in your in your good spots or or are you often like, man, we got to go check this ore because they were on there last year and you go in and it's just it's just different for whatever reason. Yeah.
I mean there's some spots that seem like they're good every year. A lot of times it seems like we'll be hunting a spot and if it's good and we you know, are filming everything and doing all that. A lot of times people will figure it out and move in there. So that is one thing that we have to think about every year, is if you know, if we have some luck in an area, a lot of times people will figure it out and then they'll move
in there. So then we kind of shift and we'll try and figure other stuff out, you know, close to there maybe but just something a little bit different. But a lot of times there something that we're doing is if we're always looking for like new chunks that might pop up each year, new chunks that might pop up
into public. So that's one thing that we try and focus on, like this time year is like really looking at the maps, trying to find new pieces of public that might open up, and then we'll dive into those areas a lot and uh scout those if you know, we try and focus on stuff that we have never been into if we can, if that's available. But you know that's not always the case.
Yeah, because does IWA have a you know, private land open to the public type of program. Do they have some kind of walk in program or anything down there?
Yeah?
Oh you do.
Okay, So we're looking at that a lot because those are just like real small chunks a lot of the time. So we look at those quite a bit because those are the ones that seem to pop up the most. Like a spot that you maybe wasn't public last year, you'll find a little chunk of walk in that you haven't seen before on the map. So then we'll if we find a spot like that, we'll go to it as soon as we can and scout it.
Yeah, that's uh. I do that in Minnesota here we have a walk in program, and then I do that in Wisconsin a lot, not not only for deer, but you know, some upland opportunities and stuff as well. And those those kind of programs, you know, even though you know in the Midwest and the East they feel different, like you said, because they're they're often you know, a forty acre chunk versus you know, a thousand acre parcel
or whatever that you might get out west. But man, that they can be so good, especially when they're brand new. Like you said that, it's it's always worth paying attention to, you know, whatever state you live in or whatever state you're traveling to, what kind of programs do they have to incentivize private landowners to open up their open up their stuff to the public. It's that's it's pretty cool that we have that option in so many different states.
Now, Yeah, I like hunting those pieces because it seems like they're a little bit more obscure, a little bit smaller, a little bit harder to find on the map. So those are always exciting to go check those out, I think. And we've had some some pieces that pop up for
a couple of years. We'll go in there and scout them and hunt them and maybe even have some luck, and then the next year they're back out of it, so they're back private, which is always unfortunate, but that's all right because it keeps us bouncing around and you know, tries to we try, and it's easier for us to keep you know, other people that might be watching the videos off our tail a little bit, I guess.
I mean, how much of an issue is that for you guys, because I mean it has to be I mean, it has to be like front and center in your mind often that when you go to a place, people are just gonna figure it out and they're gonna go hunt it.
Yeah, it's I wouldn't say, it's a huge issue. We try and do as good a job as we can, like hiding like landmarks and whatever as best we can, especially when we go to New States, Like, we don't want to go in there and be making it real obvious where we're at, because then people that are local there have been hunting that spot for years or whatever, and then we bomb in there and and then a bunch of people if people are able to figure it out from the videos, then we don't want to do
that at all. So we try our best to keep it as obscure as possible and harder to figure out for people as possible.
Yeah, that's that's the dance, right, I mean, we mark and I we go back and forth on this a lot, because you know, for a long time, the audience was like, we want to see you go hunt public land, and you know that that sort of created the opportunity for you guys, and you know, guys like me did you know, do pretty well for a while. But now people are like, don't we don't want to see you there, you know, like we don't, we don't want you to blow up
our stuff. But there's still enough people out there who love the public land thing that you know, We're always like, man, if we if we do this haunt on public land and we film it, how do we shoot it in a way where you just can't tell, and how do we talk about it in a way where it's like not very specific, Because I feel that way, like, I don't I don't want to blow up anybody's spot. I don't want to, you know, be that guy just to show up and scorch earth something and then get out.
But I do want to, you know, I love the challenge of it. I love hunting public land, and there is a segment of the audience that really wants that, and so it's sort of a the eternal dance there is. How do you do that and keep as many people as possible happy and still get that product. It's tough.
Yeah, it can be tough at times. We're trying. We're I think we're doing a better job of keeping it hidden a little bit better now. But yeah, and I don't. I don't. I can't blame people for doing that at all.
So no, I know, And but you know, it's kind of weird. I always think about this. We It's easy to look at it from the perspective of, you know, an audience member and be like those THHP guys blew up my spot, and now all these people are in there. But there's an undeniable component to the hunting population that wants to not do any work and find a spot
that's just banging. And I mean, sure you, I'm sure you guys deal with this all the time where people are like, hey, when you go to North Dakota, are you you know north of ninety four or south of ninety four, Like, are what river are you along? And there are people that are always trying to find spots. So there's a little bit of a little bit of
blame to go around there, you know. And I always tell people, I'm like, man, the part of the fun of all of this, if you're gonna, you know, try that lifestyle a little bit or try a hunt like that is just doing the eat scouting and finding a spot. You know. It's like it's pretty satisfying to do that and then go out there and actually be on some deer and have a good hunt or beyond whatever critter. But it's it's sort of a complicated thing.
Yeah, it can't be at times. That's I like to I like figuring a spot out, finding a spot and then going in there and being like, Yep, this is what I thought it was going to be like. And then you get into a bunch of deer, getting into a bunch of turkeys or whatever it may be, that's always a very rewarding feeling.
I would say, yeah, And I think, you know, kind of like what you said, where you're you know, looking for something new, get in maybe it's going to be small or whatever, and you know it hasn't been hunted yet, you know publicly. Anyway, that whole process of just finding finding those spots every year and just kind of being forced to almost is it's sort of a pain in the ass because it'd be nice to have an easy one once in a while. But it's also just really
rewarding to go. You know what, it's Nebraska September one. I'm going to go do something in this part of the state I've never been to, and just just figuring out the deer is it's pretty sweet, man.
Yeah, it is. It's a lot of fun. Like last year, I went to Kansas and and me and Keith went out there right before pronghorn season, so it had been like beginning of August, I think, and we went out there and scouted a bunch of places, which was mostly just driving around. We did a lot of driving and glassing and whatever, and then I didn't kill a deer there until like November thirteenth. I think I went back
early September. Then I went back late October into the first week in November, and then went back again like on November tenth maybe, and then ended up killing a deer November thirteenth. But that was a long process of you know, kind of hunting out there all year and then finally getting one. That was a lot of fun.
It's fun to it's fun to know you have a full season and you might be able to get back to a spot like that a couple different times. If it doesn't happen right away, there's there's a different level of pressure, like an easier level of pressure to deal with in that situation.
Yeah. Yeah, And we're obviously very lucky to be able to go out there all year and be hunting all year. So it's you know, pretty awesome to be able to go out there for a week and then come back, and then go back out there different week and then come back and go back out there again. So but yeah, it's a lot of fun once it all works out, very rewarding for sure.
When you talk about you know, I want to go back to those those smaller spots in Iowa when you when you talk about that, do you find that that people kind of they overlook some of those small parcels, and you know, if you get in on something like that, Like I'm like, if I if I had, you know, a little forty acre piece of walk in and I pulled up there and there was another truck there, I wouldn't go in there. And I think a lot of people are like that, you know, I mean, some people
will come in on you no matter what. But do you find that you sort of get like a little margin of safety on those smaller properties because people might kind of ignore them, and if you know, you're the first truck there in the morning, you might not have people walk in on you.
Yeah, it seems like it, especially on those smaller chunks. And and I well, there's obviously not a ton of hunting pressure, so most of the spots we go to there's not a ton of people lurking around, but definitely on those smaller chunks you know, a lot of times they're out in the middle of not a lot of times are out away from like a big chunk of public or something. I would say, So it seems like people aren't going to those nearly as much as maybe a giant chunk of public.
Yeah. I've started to really kind of hone in on those smaller properties too. I mean, I feel like my sweet spot is either you know, I want fifty thousand acres to work with, because you can you're gonna get away from people if you have just enough land, or you get that really you know, pretty small chunk that people just kind of are going to overlook or they might not go in there on you, and you can
really work it at certain times of the season. And man, I feel like, at least for me and my style, that that's that's such a good opportunity to just drill down on a spot and figure out what they're doing and work them without having kind of that you know, like nagging feeling that at any moment there's going to be you know, five extra trucks in the parking lot and people are gonna be going through there. Uh huh.
Yeah, I mean it's fun to hunt the different types, like you were saying, like either a small chunk or a big chunk, because you've got to tackle it so much differently. I feel like, just like with a small chunk, you gotta be real careful where you go. Maybe you're glassing from the truck, and then you'll go in and make a sick and then you'll try and get back
out without disturbing anything. Where like a big chunk, maybe you're going in and you're just scouting your way through trying to find a spot, and it's fun to It's it's cool to hunt those different pieces in different ways, you know, Like with a smaller chunk you gotta be real strategic, and then with a bigger chunk, maybe you can get a little bit more aggressive and dive in and walk around until you find something that you like and then hunt it that way.
Yeah, that I think the I think when you deal with small chunks, which is you know, so common, you know, private and public for Midwest and Eastern whitetail hunters, you really learn how to manage your presence and you know you're you should be hyper aware of it on any kind of ground you're on, But if you're on public land, you really are aware that, Like, man, I can't. I can't just go blow through here and be sloppy because
I don't know who else is going in there. I mean, you don't, you don't want to anyway, but to me it feels like it just Man, it sharpens the blade a lot when you're working little properties like that, because you can't. There's only so many mistakes you can make before it's going to really suck to hunt there.
Yeah. One example of that is when a couple of year, I think it was twenty nineteen, WARB and I were hunting and it was during the rut and we were hunting like one of those real small chunks, and we had scouted it during the summer, and I don't even think we went back over there until it was like the first week in November. I believe. We just drove by there just to see what was going on and spotted a buck out there, and it wasn't much. It was just it was like a hayfield on top I think,
or maybe it was a crop field. I don't remember, but it was whatever it was, it was cut so there wasn't anything any cover except for like two little draws with trees in them, and then there was a pond in one of the draws, and me and him hunted that spot I think three three days. I think we went in there that afternoon when we drove by, spotted that buck. So we slid up a fence line a little ways and sat down, and we're seeing some bucks and just some quite a few deer out there.
So then we went back in the next morning on a different side and jumped in there and ended up seeing two bucks that morning, didn't kill either one of them, and then we went back in that night, didn't kill anything that night, and then the next morning we ended up killing one. The next morning we dove straight into the middle of it and ended up killing that killing a buck there that was actually decoy buck in twenty nineteen.
But that was fun because it was like, you're just we were just trying to be so careful, all right, we can slide up this fence line. Now we're gonna, you know, slide up this little draw. And we weren't going very far from the road because I mean, there wasn't an opportunity to go very far from the road really, yep. So it was just it was fun to go in and all right, we're going to go in and set up here, and then you'd see some have some action.
And then but we kept seeing these deer. All these bucks were cruising and they kept going by this pond, and they were going like right by this damn and they were coming into it from two different directions, like making an X and coming into that one pond in
the middle of the piece. And so finally we were we got good conditions for it, and we dove in there well before daylight and just said all right, we're just going to go for it now and just went straight to that spot and ended up killing that one that morning.
So you guys took a little property, scouted it, some showed up there to hunt, played the edge game till you saw for sure where you're like, that's the spot, and then you dove in and killed once you moved into you know, so like several layers of observation, you know, observing an hunting at some point, and then you're like that that's where we have to be, and moved in that next level and killed him.
Yep, pretty much exactly we went because that was a small chunk that had just popped up that year. Like we were talking about with those little walking chunks, and it had just popped up. So we went in and scouted it sometime in July or early August, and it was me and Warb and Jake and Zach I think, And there's actually a video of Zach and we were out there on that piece and we jumped like a few different bucks out there, and all of a sudden, Zach just takes off running and like chases this after
this buck. Where he was chasing that buck at is actually pretty close to where we ended up killing the one that year. And so we went in there in the summer, scouted it. A lot of deer in there,
found a lot of sign from the previous fall. So then but then, like I said, we didn't go back over there until November, at least that's what I'm pretty sure somebody else might have gone over there at some point, but me and war didn't go over there until that first week in November, and then that's when we ended up seeing a bunch of bucks out there during the rut. So yeah, we were just sliding up fence lines in little draws and getting in spots where we could hunt
but still see like the whole piece. And then just from doing that and observing seeing bucks go into that one spot by that pond from two different directions, they would always seem to end up right there, and then we just dove in there and ended up killing the one.
So was that a situation where there was pretty limited cover in that area. So that was kind of I mean, if they were going to move and stay hidden, they were going to have to use that pretty much.
Like I said, it was like a crop field or a hayfield, I don't remember, but it was cut so it was like ankle high grass out there. So the only cover there was really was these two little draws and it was just a small drawl probably maybe one hundred yards wide, and then it would run up into the piece a little ways and then it would just go back into that open field. So those bucks, they were cruising the top of the ridge and dropping down
into that by that pond. From two different ridges, they would come along there cruising and then they would drop down into that pond, it seemed like every time. So that's what we were seeing, and then that's when we were like, all right, we got to get right in there.
Yeah, that's a good lesson there because I think I think it's so easy for people, you know, especially people who maybe don't have a ton of experience, to go, Okay, well, you know this dude to hunts water all the time, So I'm just going to find water. And it's like, you know, in your region, in your area, on your property or the public you're hunting, if there's a whole bunch of water around, that's that's a bad plan. Like if you're if you're a big woods hunter, finding cover
isn't your problem. You have to find what is what is more rare that the deer wants. So in that situation you're talking about, there's pretty limited cover, you know, those deer are going to use it. So now your job isn't you know, isn't to call the obvious shot and be like, well they're going to go through the cover, But how are they going to go through there? And how are you going to hunt it where you don't just absolutely blow it out because you're just working with
that little gift of a draw. And I think that we look at scouting and go, well, I just got to find the thing that the deer going to use, the food source or the travel route or whatever. But that's like just the beginning, because you have to figure out how you're going to get there and how you're going to hunt it and preserve that movement. And that's way harder than just figuring out where deer like to walk.
Yeah, and it seems like, you know, you go out and do your summer scouting and whatever, and you get some spots that you're excited about, but then really once you get in there, everything starts to change throughout the year, so you're just constantly looking for like fresh sign over here. Okay, now we're gonna just over here. You know, you might not be right on that spot that you scouted during
the summer. You might be close to it, but you know you got to just go in there and then adjust accordingly to whatever the deer doing at that time. And that, to me is the funnest. I love that because, like in season, you get in there in a spot and then you're just you know, you have somewhat of an idea based on the scouting that you did, but then little things pop up and your little light bulbs start going off, and then you're like, all right, we got to just over here. Now we're gonna pop over
this way. That to me is a lot of fun because it's just always changing throughout the year and eventually you get it right and then you get an opportunity.
Yeah, that's I think that's the thing. You know that you guys have shown a lot of whitetail hunters that we didn't really get from a lot of traditional hunting media because it was it was created on places with a high level of deer consistency. You know, like a lot of the traditional you know, magazine articles and then TV shows and now YouTube uh, you know, episodes are like they're filmed on places where the deer are consistent.
Let me put it that way, like they're going to end up in that food plot or they're going to use the same ridge every year because there's nobody messing with them. And it's a very kind of controlled, curated setting. But most people don't have that. I mean some people do,
but most people don't. And so it is that game of you know, not maybe continuous year long scouting, but definitely hitting those real important points the winter scouting and then the mid to late summer glassing and trail camera work and whatever and building sort of building that database.
But it only takes you like seventy five percent of the way there maybe, and the rest is just kind of what you're talking about, like what are you finding in season that you can kind of backfill and go, Okay, well, I saw these bucks up here down there in the summer. I know they're around here, but now what I'm seeing is like the most current information you have to plug in and it's going to lead you places you probably
didn't expect back in August. But that's like that's the game, Like that's how it works.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, like we'll do all kinds of scouting and whatever during the summer, and then by the time it's mid October, a lot of that's just out the window, and you're just going wherever you're getting little clues, you know, and you just base it off of that, and it's just an ever evolving process until you finally finally get one.
I guess well, and you don't have to wait till October a lot of times for that stuff to change. I mean, yeah, exactly. And I know you guys have done this quite a bit and I have too. Where you know, if you hunt a state that's got like a September one opener, and you're like, man, I'm going to pattern those velvet bucks. If you spend you know, some portion of maybe the first ten days of September hunting, you will see those bucks go from velvet to hard antlered.
And you will see some of them that don't seem like it's influenced by pressure change. I mean, they're going to do things a little bit differently, and you'll see movement a little bit later. And just it's so much of that stuff's happening regardless of whether we pressure them
or somebody else does. And then you think about all those situations where now they are getting real pressure on public land in spots and the leaves are coming down and the food sources are changing, and it almost always is a game of plugging in what you find right now and what you observe right now to make a plan for tomorrow.
Yep, for sure. That's that's what makes it so fun, is just it's always something, always is changing, and you're just constantly playing cat and mouse with them, and uh yeah, it's a lot of fun. Like last year, me and Keith were hunting a piece where we'd found a bunch of like real fresh scrapes. We'd actually hadn't scouted this piece during the summer. We just dove in there, and I think Jake actually went in there the week before and found some fresh sign and then he was going
to a different state. So me and Keith dove in there, and you know, we would we were hunting this ridge system on top, but then it would drop into this river bottom and tons of like thick cover where there was a bunch of good bedding and stuff, and we kept thinking, you know, this is probably the spot down here off this ridge, but we kept running into freshtine up on these ridges, so we'd just stop and then we'd hunt that, and you know, we'd find a scrape
and we'd stop and we'd hunt it, or we might bump a dough or something, and we're like, all right, we better hold up here and hunt this for tonight. Even though we kept thinking the spot deeper in there was the spot to be, we just kept like stage hunting our way in there, and eventually we got good conditions to really dive all the way into the piece where we thought maybe the bucks were actually moving around
in the daylight. And when we got those good conditions, we dove all the way in there, and I mean we blew out I think we probably blew out fifteen dos on our way in there. And it was always like you'd see something. You'd see a deer get up, and your gut would just getting a knock because you're like,
oh God, I hope that wasn't the buck. But then you could see it and it was a dough and you're like, all right, we got to just keep going a little bit, keep going, and we just kept bumping doe and eventually we got to the spot where we wanted to be and then ended up killing a buck there. But it's like that's the end season scouting. I guess, like we hadn't we hadn't scouted that spot during the summer. We had been in there years past and knew that
it was a good spot. So then when Jake went in there and found some fresh sign, then me and Keith dove in there, and you know, we just slowly picked our way at it, but we weren't going off of any sort of summer scout, and then we were just going off of the sign that we were finding from you know, probably that the night before.
Basically one thing that I haven't heard you say, is anything about trail cameras are they? Like, to what level do you rely on trail cameras for summer scouting?
It depends, I mean sometimes. I mean we always put them out there. Every year. We put trail cameras up in the summer, and then we'll put them up and we'll be adjusting them throughout the fall. I guess wherever we're finding the best stuff.
So hold on. So if you go, let's just say hypothetically, uh, you find a new chunk of walking land and you want to You're like, man, that's that's brand new on you know, e scouting. It looks pretty bad ass. When you go in there the first time in the summer, you're you're definitely going to bring some cameras with you.
Most times, Yeah, we're really bringing cameras with us and setting one up. We have a ton of trail camera so we're able to do that where we can just kind of spread a wide net of them wherever we're
scouting at. I would say that the best example of using a trail camera to kill a buck that I have is it was I think it was August, Me and Warb and Goots went into a spot and scouted and we found a bunch of real heavy trails and like old rubs from the year before, all coming out of this real thick creek bottom and it was coming up through these hardwoods out to these agfields. So we set up a trail camera right there, and it wasn't
a cell camera. So we went in there like the week before season opened and checked the camera and there was a bunch of bucks on it. But there was a bunch of bucks. It was interesting because there was a bunch of bucks in velvet coming up through that trail until like the last week is said, September, and they had and then they weren't on there from like the last week of September to the first week of October or to the first the day before October, I guess.
So we saw that and we were like, okay, so they were coming out this trail coming out of that bedding area that we had kind of found in the summer. But now they're not coming out there, so where are they going now? And we had scouted this ridge that was just a little ways to the oh what would that have been west of there, west of the camera, and we knew there was a bunch of red oaks up there, and that's what was dropping the most that
year was red oaks. So after seeing that they're all those bucks were coming out of that bedding area and then that like it was like a hard switch where they weren't coming by the camera, We're like, all right, well, I wonder if they're going up that ridge now and
feeding on those acorns. So me and Goot went in there opening day, which was October first, and instead of going by that trail camera, we ducked off into the woods and started scouting away through these ridges and it only took like two ridges, and it was like straight west of the camera, and we found a real big buck track in one of the ravines. And then we popped up on this ridge and it was just like
tore up. It looked like not with buck sign, but just tore up with feeding sign, Like you could see where the deer had been in there and palling at the ground and trying to get to the acorns and everything. And there was one little rub up there that looked to be pretty fresh. It didn't look it wasn't anything crazy. It was just right by all that crazy feeding sign that we had found. And we just set up right there and ended up killing a buck that night.
And how far was that from the camera where he killed him?
It was probably two hundred yards. It was like the camera was in a spot upon like right on the edge of this agfield, and then it dropped down into a ravine and then popped back up on this ridge, and that was where we ended up killing the buck. We just instead of going to that camera and then moving around from there, we dove in before we got to the camera and started scouting away through those ridges.
And then that ridge that was just straight west of the camera is where we found all that feeding sign and then we ended up killing that buck. But it's that's the best example I've out of, you know, using a trail camera to try and figure out where the deer are. You know, he wasn't. It's interesting because a lot of times, like even I think of, you know, there's this buck, all right, he came by the trail camera the night before. Now we're gonna go set up
like right by the camera. It seems like every time I've done that, Ye, there's nothing ever shows up like you see, all right, buck came by there the night before. I'm gonna go sit up there and then you see nothing. And so that was kind of a cool one because we saw that they were on their a bunch coming out of the coming from the direction where we found all that betting sign and uh, and then they had shifted a little bit, but we didn't know where exactly.
And then we went in there and found all that tore up. That ridge was all tore up, and that's where we ended up killing them. They had just shifted over just a little bit, And so that was that was a pretty cool one.
Do you know. Do you know what I love about that story? What's that that most people would probably just assume one of two things that somebody went in there and blew that river bottom out and those bucks were gone, or because it was getting close to October, they went nocturnal and the lull came in early and those deer weren't moving, you know. I mean, if you hear that a lot, you know that that's the danger of trail
camera usage. I think, you know, one of the dangers is you're gonna fill in the blanks, you know, So like what you're talking about there, if you have that camera up and you've got consistent buck movement up that trail, up that ridge, and then all of a sudden it dies off. If you're not in a place where you're like, I'm gonna go figure out why that, like you guys did, like there has to be a reason why, and you're
not just assuming the worst. You're just like, okay, well something changed, you know, like something something took those bucks off of this specific pattern. I think a lot of hunters would look at that and stop with with you know, checking the pictures and go all right, these deer are not killable or I'm gonna set up here anyway, because they were coming through here like crazy, and maybe maybe
you'll pick one up. But it's such a simple explanation that, you know, what you guys had going on was, you know, it's late September, and then all of a sudden it gets into right at the beginning of October, and that's when a lot of that mask has fallen down. So those bucks never left, they didn't go nocturnal, they just shifted a little bit. And if they're off by twenty feet, your trail camera suddenly becomes something that could work against you if you don't go figure out why did dry up?
Why did those sighting or you know, why did the images dry up? It's such a good lesson in that hunt.
Yeah, it was. It was eye opening to me too. It was like because I mean, there could have been somebody that went in there and blew them out of there.
We didn't really know, but we just decided, well, there was i mean a good amount of different bucks coming through there, so they got to be and they were all coming from that same direction that we had scouted, so where we found all the good bedding, and we were like, they got to be still in here somewhere, just a matter of finding them, and it just happened to work out on the very first time it went
in there. But yeah, it's trail cameras are. They can be your friend or they can be your worst enemy sometimes.
I mean, you know that that example there is so poignant because it shows how to use them correctly. We if you put them out there, and they gave you so much proof of life, so much proof that those bucks were living there, and then they gave you proof that those bucks had changed their pattern. So everything, if you use that correctly, everything those trail cameras did was
was a net benefit to you. Even when they showed you now they're not here, But you have to use it that way, and you have to use them as like a complimentary tool to that boots on the ground scouting and that end season scouting. But many can. They can be a badass tool is long as you don't use them to tell you things that aren't true. And that's that's where we get into a lot of trouble
with a nocturnal bucks or things like that. It's like, man, just because they didn't walk in front of this camera doesn't mean they're not killable. They just something changed. And you know, you you you mentioned this and I did too with you know, well, maybe they blew up. You know,
maybe somebody blew out that river bottom. You know, those bucks aren't elk, They're not going four miles away, you know, so if somebody went through there and did blow them out, you know, And that's like the conclusion you come to with your with your camera usage, that's fine, but do you know that? And like if somebody walks through there, you know, public land, those bucks get bumped a lot, Like how much how much does it really matter if
you're doing your work? You know, Like I think it's I think it's dangerous just to assume the worst every time something happens that you kind of don't expect.
I guess, yeah, yeah, no it it can be very helpful and most I mean, it always is helpful. It's just sometimes they can be frustrating. I guess like last year, Warbur and I hunted a we had a trail camera up, a cell camera during the rut, and there was bucks going by it like crazy in the daylight, and we just kept going in there and setting up close to it and never never once even saw a buck in there, but they just kept coming by the camera and we could not quite figure out where or how exactly to
kill one of them. And it was that was one where it was like, all right, this is really frustrating because they're coming by this camera. We just can't seem to get ourselves quite in the right position.
You know, did they know you were going in there?
They might have, I don't really know. It was it was a weird deal because we just kept picking a way around there, and you know, like every every day we'd get a picture of a really nice bucket on there, and we just cannot quite get one in bow range. We never I mean we saw one one time I guess, didn't kill him. But and like I say, this was during the rut, so it's a little bit harder to
predict buck movement, I would say. But we just kept going in there and picking away around that camera in different spots wherever the conditions were good for it, and never could quite get one killed. So that's where I guess I say, sometimes they can be frustrating where you're like, all right, they're going by this thing every single day and we just can't quite get ourselves in the right
position to kill one for whatever reason. And they make every hunt exciting because you know there's a bunch of bucks in there for sure.
But that's I mean, that's another good lesson there that you know, we kind of take for granted a lot of times, is if you're getting consistent pictures of a buck, especially with cell cameras, I mean, you're not there, and when you are there, everything changes. And so some situations like a you know, the right field edge type of hunt, you know, you could really dial in to killing a buck that way with a cell camera or you know, maybe a food plot or whatever that you have just
like totally badass like airtight access. But you know, when you're talking public land or you know, some private land just just permission based and other people might be in there, and you know, just the whims of mother nature. It's just a really good starting point a lot of times
is getting those pictures. But you have to accept that reality that it doesn't matter if he's if he's coming through at six o'clock every day and working a scrape and it's broad daylight and whatever, you're not there, and that changes so much. I mean, where you park and how you walk in and probably a lot of things that we're not even aware of. You know, maybe you know, maybe you jump to deer around the way in that you didn't even know was there and it ran past
his betting area or whatever. But you have to listen to you have to pay attention to what the deer show you in that situation, because the trail camera is giving you a view of that world that doesn't involve your presence, and then your presence there kind of trumps everything because you have to be there to kill them.
And so you know, those trail camera images are awesome, and like you said, they pump you up, but what are you actually seeing when you go in there, because if if the deer aren't coming through, then something's going on that you're gonna have to adapt to.
Yeah, for sure, it's it's a fun game to play most times. It's just sometimes you get it right and sometimes you don't.
I guess it is fun. What's what state are you most excited to hunt this year? Don't say Iowa?
This year? I actually don't have any hunts playing. I don't think other than Iowa. I think I guess I got a Mississippi tag, which I'll hunt at some point, But other than that, I actually don't have any hunts planned for my that I'm actually gonna be carrying a bow at the moment, really, So.
That's a little disappointing to me. If I'm gonna be honest with you.
I know, I'm sure it is last year I had. Last year I had Kansas and Iowa. I think that's it. But uh, this year, I don't have anything planned really. I'm not sure exactly where where I'm gonna end up. I know we're going. I think we're going out to Wyoming to start. Greg's got a tag out there, and then possibly North Dakota again. Early I think Jake's got a Kansas tag Kansas muzzloader. That's about all I know
as far as that goes. And then Warb's cousin has an elk tag and Zach's dad has an elk tag out in Wyoming, so they'll be doing that, and I'm not sure where will be the rest of us. I guess all.
Right, how about this, then, what is your favorite state to hunt public land whitetails in? That's not Iowa.
H'm trying to think of. We're all of hunted. I really liked hunting Kansas last year. That was a lot of fun. I haven't actually been up to North Dakota. I'd really like to go up there and hunt.
You never hunted North Dakota, I haven't.
I've never even been up there in film. I'd like to go up there.
North Dakota's pretty good, That's all I'm gonna say about that. Pretty fun state, pretty cool, pretty diverse. I think in a lot of people who've never been up there, I think would assume, you know, And we do the same thing with South Dakota and Kansas and Nebraska, right is like, if you've never been there, you kind of think, oh, there, you know there's not much going on there, but you know,
North Dakota. One of the things I love about it is, you know, I can be on the east side of the state and have kind of a very typical type of white tail hunt, and I can go to the west side of the state and you know, you're you're in the middle of elk and mule deer an antelope while you're hunting white tails, and you know, you know, in air that smells like sage, and it's just a different experience. It's that's that's a badass state. I like North Dakota a lot.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to going up there at some point. I don't know when I'll make it up there exactly, but maybe this year.
I know when I'm gonna make it up there. This year. I have that one on the books already. Well, we better wrap this up, buddy. Uh, it was you know, it was a pleasure to talk to you as always.
Uh.
I appreciate you coming on here. I hope you guys go catch the crap out of the catfish on your diddy poles. Uh. Where can everybody find all your guys' stuff?
You can find all of our hunting videos on the Hunting Public YouTube channel, and then we've got Instagram and Facebook and TikTok all under the Hunting Public and I think think that's about it. I think we have some videos on Amazon Prime as well, so those are the main sources to find our videos.
Awesome, buddy, thanks so much for coming on.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Be sure to tune in next week for some more whitetail goodness. Has been the Wire to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you by First Light, and I'm your host, Tony Peterson. As I always, thank you so much for listening. If you're looking for more white tail content, or maybe you just want to check out those pants I keep talking about those Origin pants, head on over to themeateater dot com. You'll see a pile of new articles every week.
You'll see when we drop a new series, like we just dropped that buck Truck series by those Element Boys. All kinds of great hunting content over there. Go over there, check it out. And as always, I just want to thank you again for your support. It really means the world to us that you guys come here and listen to this every week and my Foundations podcast, we truly appreciate it so thank you for that