Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the white Tail Woods. Present it by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go farther, stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your guest host, Tony Peterson, and today I'm speaking to Andy May about scouting all summer long to set yourself up for success throughout the entire dear season. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, which is brought to you by First Light, which makes the Killer Trace lineup. If you haven't checked it out and you're thinking about summer scouting or hunting
early season, you should probably check it out. It's pretty damn good stuff, super breathable, pretty tough, and it's just right for hot weather white tail work. Now you know this isn't the voice of the walking muppet man, Mark Kenyon, it's your old Sea Squad or Tony Mark, you know who takes more vacations than any adult I know who
didn't start a company like Amazon. He's off on an emergency errand apparently the text he sent me went like this, Hey bro, I need you to cover this week because I need to go get fitted for my dream wizard costume in time for the Detroit Cosplay Festival. He even ended it with a wand E moji, because I don't that was necessary, I guess anyway, I'm kicking off a whole month of scouting podcasts. We are in the heart of it all, at least for a lot of folks,
and it's time to take inventory. It's time to start building those plans for the fall. It's time to get our happy asses in gear and get some white tail work done. And who better to talk to about that than the man, the myth, and the deer hunting legend that is Andy May.
Now.
I know you've heard Andy talk a lot on different podcasts, but I don't know if he's ever gotten into this level of depth and detail on how he scouts in the summer. And that's good. But where he ties it in and really makes the whole thing hum is how he talks about how he sets himself up for success all fall along. I'm telling you I learned a lot in this conversation with Andy, and it fired me up to be better. And I bet if you listen all the way through, it'll do the same thing for you.
Andy May. How you doing, buddy?
Pretty good?
You should be doing good.
Why don't you tell everybody who's listening to this, they're going to be surprised what we've been doing all week.
Yeah, it's been fun, a fun few days.
I am up in Minnesota doing a little bass fishing with my buddy Tony Peterson.
Yeah, Meat Eater and their infinite wisdom decided to take me and Andy May and put us on a fishing show that we're filming. And by fishing show, I mean it's a one off episode. But we are out there trying to catch a bunch of smallies in large mouth and it has been interesting.
Yeah, it's been fun.
I've been joking around, trying to poke fun at Tony, saying I'm a better fisherman out there, but he's kind of kicking my butt.
But it's been tough conditions.
It's been windy and choppy and cold and running into some some different pitfalls. But you know, we're making the most of it. We're out there fishing, catching a lot of northern pike, catching some large mouth. We got into some nice smallies. You caught two great fish today, big small mouth, big large mouth.
Yeah, it's been Uh, it's been weird. You know, cold fronts this time of year can really shut things down, especially for the smallies. But it's been it's been really fun. Uh, this is a weird like this like white tail community is weird because we're You and I were talking this morning, we were eating breakfast. We've known each other what probably
six years, you know, five six years. We've never met each other, right, this is the first time we've been together, and it kind of it's kind of cool to get together in a non deer hunting situation and you know, because that's all we've been talking about in the boat, you know, I mean a lot of a lot of it. But it's been fun to just try to find some fish, work around the conditions a little bit, and just talk about just deer hunting in life. And man, I didn't
there's there's some things I didn't know about you. Like I just assumed you came from like a big hunting family and had like a you know, the typical introduction where your dad's like, hell, yeah, let's go out and hunt all the time and fish all the time. And
you just didn't have that. But it's something the more the more that I've gotten to know you, and I think people listening this will be like, well, yeah that makes sense with Andy, but you are literally wired for this stuff, like it's just something that spoke to you.
Yeah.
Yeah, I kind of got into it. Well, I got some I had some cousins. I got into to bow hunting and archery and kind of dove into the archery thing first and fell in love with that and then transitioned into bow hunting. Never had a like a grandpa or or a father or anything that got me into it. Just had had some close cousins that did it, and I kind of watched from afar and it caught my interest.
But yeah, I I uh.
From the first from the first time I shot a compound beau, I was in love with it, you know, I was. I just loved the whole thing about it. And then the first time I went bow hunting and I saw my very first turn, I saw a deer I think a fawn or something walked under me, and I was just I just fell in love. And I mean I never let the foot off the gas pedal from that single day, you know, I just was I wanted to be out there and I wanted to learn,
and I wanted to try new things. And yeah, I mean it was you know, you kind of hear that I was, you know more, you know, born to do this or meant to do this. And I think a lot of people who maybe don't find that, but I found it. It was a little later in life. I would have loved to have those memories with my dad or sure, you know, a sibling or a grandfather or something,
but they weren't really you know, the outdoor type. So yeah, kind of got into it through a cousin, a couple of cousins, but kind of myself, like I you know, they kind of started the interest and then I kind of just took off in my own direction and pretty much was a solo thing. I had some buddies that hunted. Yeah, we'd occasional like you know, hey, come out here hunt with me, or you know, you guys come out here and hunt with me. And did some trips and whatnot
with a couple of friends throughout the years. But it's it's mainly been a solo venture.
But you still had people who started you in it or like you know, like lit the fire a little bit, or it just like showed you that, like this is a thing you can do. And you know, we've been You have a daughter who's like a couple of years older than my girls, and you know they're both you know, your kid, My kids they're at that stage in the school where there's so many freaking activities, like they can try anything, all the sports and the after school activities.
And you know, you said something we were fishing the other day, and it's it's just rings true in my life too, is like you just give them the chance to try stuff, Like if they have an interest in dance or you know, basketball or whatever, You're like, they have the opportunity to and like you look at it as a good parent, you go, I'm gonna give them because maybe that's their thing. You know, Like your daughter's
really good at basketball. If you hadn't introduced her to that, like that would change the arc of her life and probably not for the better, you know. Yeah, And I think about that, and we have this like anti recruitment movement going on in the hunting industry, you know, because people think it's too crowded and the same old arguments, and I look at it and go, those cousins are yours who who got you into shooting bow a little bit and you know, kind of encourage you to go hunting.
That changed the the arc of your existence, Like your life is like undoubtedly better for it, and you've passed that on your daughter hunts. And I just look at that and I go, man, we shouldn't we should give people that opportunity, you know, because like not ever. You know, obviously, maybe one out of ten people takes too. You know, probably one out of a billion takes to it like
you do, but most of them won't. But if somebody is there who would be like that appreciative and that into it, it's like a crime against humanity to not give them that shot.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean I hate running into people out you know, in the woods just as much as I'm I'm kind of a loner and I like to be alone.
I don't like to see people.
But yeah, I mean, we need people to get into hunting, so we have them on our side. And you're right, you never know if there's going to be some kid out there like me or like you that just takes to it and it's something they can focus on and kind of burns like a drive inside of them to pursue or to even like improve at. You know, for me, it gave me direction. I wasn't I mean, I was
kind of an athlete, you know, I had interests. I always kind of liked fishing, but I wasn't really hardcore into that.
But when I found.
That, I immediately locked on and it gave me like a direction in life, something to kind of steer towards and keep me on more of the straight and narrow.
And it was like a healthy thing, and it.
It gave me something inside that like this desire to get better at it, improve at it. Where other things I've done, you know, I just did them because they're fun or you know, you might do this or that and it's just it's just fun hanging out with your buddies. Well this was this was something different. It was something that was difficult. It was challenging for me. I didn't know anything about it. But I liked being out there alone.
I was.
I grew up an only child, so I was used to like time alone, playing you know alone, didn't have any brothers or sisters, So I liked that being out in the woods and not being around people and you know, looking for animals and looking for spots to set up and then being in a tree for a few hours alone.
Like I just I just took to it because I enjoy that time.
Were before you got into that, were you were there other things in your life that you were like kind of long game motivated to do like you are with bow hunting, or was that kind of the first thing where you're like, this is.
That was the first?
That was the first kind well maybe kind of golf. You know, my family was a big golfing family. I took to it naturally. I was a good golfer without putting a lot of time into it, probably could have been really good sports. I was you know, I wasn't a great athlete, but you know, I played quarterback.
I was. I was pretty good, and I was a hard worker at it.
I think initially like those like just like any young man, he probably like, I want to be a professional athlete of some sort, but I kind of knew that wasn't in the cards. But this was This was probably that first thing that I just like immediately locked onto and immediately fell in love with. And yeah, kind of like knew it was going to be like a lifelong deal. I didn't realize it was going to be my life's passion,
but it certainly is. And I feel very fortunate to have found that, because I think a lot of people are lost out there. They don't really find that, and it can be I think when you do it at the level where you and I do it, that you know that commitment level. You know there's a lot of sacrifice there that takes place, you know, with your family and your work and and other things. It takes time
to do things at such a high level. But I feel thankful for it because it is giving me something like a healthy direction to focus and and something to work towards. And I get just a lot of good satisfaction, like putting so much hard work into something and doing well at it and getting better at it. And I think it makes me a better person too, you know, And I'm when I'm home, I just feel more fulfilled and more positive and more light. I guess where if I didn't have that kind of outlet somehow.
Do you So do you feel because you you scout at do you feel like that you know, kind of scratches the itch to where you're just like, because I'm the same way, I feel like there's always a certain I don't know if it's by a week or every other week or something where like there's a certain time period that can pass and if I hadn't done if I haven't done something, I start to feel like a little edgy, you know, a little bit like not in a great mood, like I should have done something and
it doesn't you know, it doesn't have to be you know, every day. You don't have to be out in the woods pounding through the marshes and stuff, but like you gotta have something like you know, on the horizon a little bit like I'm you know, Thursday, I got some time. I'm gonna go just check this out or do this. Like do you do you feel that way?
Yeah?
I feel that it's I'm drawn to it every day to do something to improve Like there's there's there's that desire to do something every day that's gonna improve my hunting. And I'm just like you, like, if I can't do something, there's like this little anxious, little anxiety inside of me, like, oh man, you know I missed a day or I
missed something. It doesn't necessarily mean scouting, I think waking up early, forcing yourself to wake up early and go to the gym one for the mental discipline of getting up early and doing something maybe you don't always want to do. But then going there and you know, lifting some weights and working on your core strength and getting on the StairMaster with some weight and you know something that's going to maybe benefit you on a western bow hunt.
I look at that as you know, when I work out now, it's a much different than like back in college. I just want to get big biceps and be able to bench three fifteen or something. But now I think, what's gonna what's gonna help me crush a mountain or you know, if I'm out in the prairie somewhere that I can get you know, I see a critter that's two three miles away or something that I know I can get there and get back and not be you know, broken up physically. So now it's it's all geared around
hunting and longevity. My joints, my core, my back. You know, I have some some things physically that are kind of trying to work against me. So it's it's constantly, but you know it could be that it's it's shooting my bow. I told you since since January one. I bet you I've missed. I bet you I've missed less than five days of shooting my bow. It could be one arrow,
it could be when it was windy and cold. It could be I put a bag target in my basement and I can get about fourteen yards and I'll just work on shot execution.
But like I will.
Literally, you know, go to work, come, you know, take my daughter to practice. There's something and it's like I'm rushing home to get that last still twenty minutes where I could just run outside, grab my bow and get five arrows off, you know, And it's just it gives me that all right, you know, I don't know, it's just part of my process.
But I felt like I did something.
But yeah, there is there's that feeling some somehow insiety that you'd need to be doing something every day, and it's hard for me to turn that off.
I mean, I don't know, it's just it's just there.
Yeah, I don't. I feel the same way.
And you put it really well, there's just like an anxiety level that creeps in if you don't do something. And you know what you said there. I want to talk about it a little bit because you talked about, you know, waking up early in the morning to go to the gym, and I know, I know people are sick of hearing about this, but that little, that little discipline of just being like, I'm going to do that
even though I don't want to. We think we look at you know, going to the gym and get on a stair climber with some kettlebells or going for a run or something is not fun. Most people look at that they go, that's not fun. But the people who get into it do it because it makes them feel better and it does it. It's they're not like always motivated,
but they're disciplined and white tail work like scouting. Some some times scouting super fun, like man, getting out glass and deer is like one of my favorite things in the world to do. But going and just hiking through the bugs and stuff like, especially in the summertime, it's not that much fun. A lot of times you learn something.
But you know, if I go do this, even though in the moment it's going to kind of suck wading through the stinging nettles and I might not find anything, The bugs are gonna be bad.
Whatever.
At the end of it.
You feel like you did something and you take that edge off and it means something to you, like it's going to make you feel better. And I think, I think when you're living a life like you are, where you've you've crossed that threshold, you understand those tasks that you don't want to do, they're going to do something for you that you need. It feeds everything and you feel that in the white tail space.
Man.
Yeah, it's a I describe it too, like you know, like waking up better early to go to the gym when you really don't have to. I could go to the gym after work, you know, I could do that or at night or whatever, but I purposely do it because it's hard and it's it does it's it's I feel like I get a little mental win when I do that, and then you get your workout in and you feel good.
It's like a win, you know.
And then just throughout the day, uh, you know, or throughout this summer, like I've went out scouting just like you said, and it's been so hot this summer, you know, kind of late May and in the beginning of June there was so hot in the nineties and I was get out in there scouting, and it was miserable, Like I didn't want to do it, but I knew, you know, like if I do this, it's gonna help my success, you know in the fall, you know if I if
I push myself, it's not fun. It was miserable and I couldn't wait to be done.
To be honest with you, it was a mosquito's horrendous.
Yeah, they were bad. Just the heat.
There's poison ivy everywhere. You know, you're sweating. But it's it's it's not only like the physical act of doing that and the information that you gather that can help you, but it's like it's like those little mental wins that you do for yourself.
Constantly.
You're doing things that maybe you don't want to do but you know you have to do to be successful, and your your brain gets kind of at least mine, it gets in tuned to making those decisions. It's like you come to a crossroad, right and you're like, well, I could just stay in and or I probably should do this, and you think about it for two seconds, it's like I'm gonna go do that because I know it's going to help me. And now my brain's in
tuned to always picking that. Like if I have a legit choice, you know, like I could like I can stay home and do nothing and stay in the air conditioner, whatever, relax or go do this that's going to help me be a better hunter or increase my success.
I'm gonna choose that. Now. My brain's just used to choosing that.
So I'll in the fall sometimes, you know, I'll get a little kind of weak in the brain and I'll be sitting in a maybe I'm sitting in a stand or something, and it's eleven am and I haven't seen deer, and it's like everything's telling me to just get down and go home, or you know, get down early, get down thirty minutes earlier or whatever. And it's like I come to that crossroad again, and I'm so used to picking the hard route. I just I just it's my default now, so I don't ever go back.
So but my my.
Tendency, yeah, you want, you know what you want my tendency especially you know now it's like I'm getting a little older, things are getting a little tougher, and it's like, ah, you know, there's like I don't need to be not that I need to prove anything to anybody, but like even to myself, like it's it's okay if you miss that or whatever. And I always try to choose that that harder choice. I don't make it like miserable, and
I'm a little more relaxed about things. But if I find myself with that at that crossroads where I have, you know, kind of the harder choice or the easier choice, I've just kind of trained myself to always go that way.
If if whoever's listening to this right now, if you want to hunt, like Andy, listen to what he just said. It's not the secret to your success is not you know, being like a scrape hunting master or a bed hunting master, or like just being like a tactician with one thing.
It's that it's choosing the difficult thing over the easy thing and training yourself to take that left as said that right to just be like I'm going to do the hard thing, because in white tail hunting, three thousand hard things, like three thousand decisions in a row put you on that buck in the fall. And it's not like everybody thinks it's in the moment, like oh, when you're in your saddle, and it's like then you're making
the decisions or whatever. It's like the decisions you made for months and months and months leading to that, these hard decisions are the ones that put that buck there by you in that tree, not just like, oh today it's October seventeenth, and I picked this because it's a staging area. You got to go back in the way back machine and train yourself to just like choose the hard route over and over and over again. And I
think that doesn't sell well. You know, like that's not a product, right, Like, it's not a new jacket, it's not a cent wick. It's just a way of thinking that puts you in a position to just get better at this stuff and always be learning and always feeling like you're doing something toward that goal, which is I think is like a huge thing.
M h yeah.
And you know it's it's it's working hard and it's being disciplined and putting in the required time and the amount of work. But it's also like like in my case, it took a lot of years. You know, it's that and the experience. You know, there's gonna be some young guys out there that are go getters. I see some of these young guys that are just killing it, you know, doing more work than I probably ever did. And maybe
they're not as successful yet. But if they stick with it for like I need twenty five years, like you and I have done this, they're gonna be you know, they're gonna be phenomenal hunters.
So it does.
It takes some experience. It takes that willingness to learn and make mistakes, but it takes that consistent discipline and really focused drive to improve at your craft, you know, no matter what it is. And I have been very singular focused on this. I told you I used to have I used to fish all the time.
I had a boat.
I had a boat that I saved up for and uh it was a nice boat that could handle you know, any lake, and it was a lund.
And I used to love bass fishing and walleye fishing. I still do. I still love it.
But there came a point in my life where my daughter and my family was my top priority. Bow hunting was a very distant but second, and then behind behind that there was a big gap, and I found myself my time was very limited, so I was always choosing, you know, nine times out of ten choosing to do
something hunting related. Like I could have the opportunity to go fishing, but I might choose to stay back and shoot my bow because I felt like I haven't practiced enough, or I don't feel quite confident going into the season, and I have a chance to go out fishing with some buddies, and I'm like, man, this is this is what I need to do. So I've been more singular focused on that, which I think has really helped me, you know, improve at a higher rate because I gave
up some things that I really loved. I quit golfing, quit like playing basketball, quit fishing. For the most part, I get out maybe five times a year, five eight times a year, and.
It's it certainly is.
I don't regret it at all, but it certainly helped kind of propel my progress just because I was so singular, singularly dedicated to this. But you know, as I get older, I'm starting to appreciate more of this. My daughter takes more to fishing than the hunting. She likes both, so now it's like I'm trying to get a little more and spend a little more time doing that and take her out because I mean that might be her passion.
I mean, right now, it sure seems like it. Maybe she'll quit when she's older, but she just loves bass fishing. So it's like I'm going to take her bass fishing.
Yeah, we need to get her out here. But I'm in the same boat, you know, like I I could never give up. There's certain things I couldn't give up. I couldn't give up some kinds of fishing. I couldn't give up pheasant hunting for anything. I just I just wouldn't do it. But you do. You do give up a lot, like if you want to be if you want to kill a lot of big deer. There's a sacrifice there in life, Like there's just there's things you're
just not going to be able to do anymore. And you know, for me, when you talk about that, like your daughter being into bass fishing and you being so singularly focused on deer, I mean, one of the reasons that I'm up here fishing a fair amount is because my little girls just love it, you know, Like I'd probably be scouting more, you know, I take you know, at the beginning of the summer, I'll take you know, one day a week or a half day or something,
and I'm doing something deer wise, and then as the summer progresses, then it's like.
You know, we're not going fishing as much. We're going to do the deer thing.
But it's just like it's there's like a little push pull thing there where, like it's like, Okay, if they like to fish, you got to figure that out. You got to go with them, you know, because we we've been talking about this on the on the boat all week. It's like we we take it for granted. You know, the white tail is going to be here for us, the elk are going to be here for us, the
meal or whatever, but these opportunities are going away. And I mean we've talked about this a lot, but you know, you we look at this world and go, well, the white tails should stay consistent, like we should always have them to hunt, but who knows, Like, who knows what's going to happen to these opportunities, and so we crave that like consistency, Like man, I always want September to roll around and have that opener or October or whatever.
You don't know if that's going to be there. So you got to keep a few of those things, like the fishing thing with the kids, you know, and like we've talked about, you know, your daughter's into hunting, but not like she's into bass fishing. And so it's like if the hunting thing doesn't, if it doesn't burn in her the way it does in you, but the fishing thing is there, like you just got to figure it out, you know, like you got to you gotta do it.
Yeah.
Well, like some of my favorite times in the deer woods have been with her, you know, and she shot her first year and her first buck, and this last past year when she shot her first big buck, I mean, it was just it was it was the most fun I'd had. I think I made a post about it. It was just the most fun I had because we just we talked. We had this downtime at the beginning of the hunt, and she was telling me, you know, she's fourteen, so she's got interesting boys and you know,
things like that drama at school. And she just opened up to me because we were there. There were no phones, there's nothing, and she just opened up and we had this great conversation and she was telling me about a boy that she had a crush on, and.
It somewhat broke my heart.
And then somehow I thought it was so cool that she felt comfortable telling me that, and I was like, oh wow, you know, and uh, it was just great. And then to top it all off, she shot, you know, a great book. But uh, yeah, I mean, shoot, if I have a lifelong fishing buddy and my daughter, yeah, I mean, I'm just thankful that she wants to do anything with me. With her being a girl, you know,
I was worried about that. You know, if she was into a lot of girly things, I would go to all her dances, all her ballet if that's what she was into, and support her. But she likes nature, and she likes outdoors and she likes athletics, all things that I'm interested in. So if I have a lifelong fishing partner, man, you can't ask for anything more than that.
So yeah, you're gonna have.
To give up a little bit of that scouting and hunting time.
Yeah, and I'm totally willing to. I totally, I am totally willing to do that. But yeah, I feel pretty lucky. But yeah, I you know, I have aspirations to bow hunt other things, some other species and whatnot. So I have no intention of slowing down, but she wants to fish, working to fish.
Yeah.
Do you do you ever get burned out on white tail hunting? Because I know we've been talking a lot about meal deer and western stuff and maybe putting together a few hunts that are non white tails related. Do you ever just kind of go because you I mean, Michigan functions a lot like Minnesota, where you're like, I don't have any options. I'm hunting white tails. Maybe maybe draw bear tag or something, but it's generally just just deer. It's not like being out West, and you know, I
know you like that variety. I know you're big into meal deer. Are you ever just like, man, I don't. I'm kind of burned out on these things.
I you know, I'm known as like a white tail hunter, but I very much think of myself as a bow hunter. Yeah, Like I am excited to bow hunt all kinds of stuff, whether I will or won't. Like we were talking about, a lot of these opportunities are starting to cost money, real money. Yeah, you know, even even DIY stuff, you know, just even traveling or getting tags, and some tags are
hard to get. Like, these opportunities are really hard and if some of the things I'd love to bowhunt are are really hard to come by, so I don't I don't know how much I'll get to do, but I very strongly want to bowhunt other species, specifically things that are difficult to bohunt. You know, I'm really interested in things that are a challenging bohunt, either physically challenging, mentally challenging, or the animal itself is like a really cagey, tough
to get an arrow in type tritter. So I don't know that I'm burnt out with whitetail hunting, but I'm certainly excited about other species and other opportunities, and that has really been at least half of my focus the last few years, and even moving forward, I'm trying to plan more of that and less of the white tail stuff, and I think maybe if I get a few of those experiences under my belt, I'll come for full circle and come back to the white tail full thing.
Do you do you plan?
Because I feel like I sort of need reset moments throughout the season, and I love having like a you know, a late September like maybe an October meal deer hunt where I'm gonna go just spot in stock. I'm not sitting in a tree. I like, I need something different.
I love I love looking forward to that, you know, because you start the season and you sit in the tree a lot, you know, and it's the typical white tail thing, and then you have that hunt that's just so different and you go, I feel like I kind of go, get it out of my system, and I'm like, man, that was so fun, and now I can't wait to go back to the white tail. It's like it, I feel like I just need that variety a little bit to keep super excited about white tail hunting.
Yeah, yeah, I mean you know that that makes a break a good point because I remember, if it was last year, maybe it was two years ago, I did less whitetail hunting. I actually traveled and did some Western stuff during kind of that late October timeframe, and I went and I went in September. Then I went in late October, and I came back, you know, came back to Michigan and started getting into the white tails and stuff.
And I was completely out of touch with what was going on because I hadn't been I'm not I wasn't in tune with you know, the rhythm of the woods and where the big bucks were and what the deer were doing, and because I hadn't really been there and I've been planning this Western stuff and I didn't like that feeling at all. And I felt like I missed out on some really good white tail stuff and I didn't like that. So that did tell me, like, Man, I really do still love white tails. I knew I did, but.
But so hold on though, did you did you not like the feeling of coming back and not being in the rhythm or did you just not like knowing that you had probably missed out on good white tail stuff or both?
I felt I felt I didn't like feeling like I missed out on some of some of the good white tail hunting that you know in the middle of the season there, I felt like I missed it and or missed some of it, and I was doing some other things, and I just felt like, God, that sucks, you know, because now I could, yes, I have white tail hunting ahead of me, but it's like the tough part of
the season. My chances at this and that or are going to go way down, and I don't know, there's only so much time and I'm I have limited time, so.
You gotta do what you gotta do.
But it, you know, it kind of brought things back to me that you know, white tail. White Tail is my first love, probably my main love. But there are some things out there that I want to challenge myself to and I'd like to accomplish an experience, And I mean, when am I going to do it? Like we were talking about, probably mentally we're in our prime right now as far as like dear knowledge. You know, in ten years I might start getting Alzheimer's or something and forgetting
some of the stuff. But like I feel like mentally right now, I'm in my prime. Physically, I feel like I'm coming out of my prime, but I'm trying to hold onto it. That's why it goes back to that working out. You know, if you saw me working out, like, yeah, I lift weights and stuff and I'm pretty strong, but I'm doing a lot of stretching. I'm doing a lot of like things for my core and my hips and my knees so that I can continue to do this for a lot of years.
So not as many glamour muscle.
No lips, no, no, not as much of that and more just kind of the longevity stuff. I'm more into that now and endurance and durability. You know, I'm trying to kind of I have bad d's. I've had multiple surgeries, and I'm trying to like push my knees, kind of beat on them a little bit, not abuse them, but kind of get them used to like pounding and pounding that stair stepper and going on runs and stuff so that they're more conditioned. Because I wasn't doing that before.
And then I'd go to like an OTC hunt in Colorado and try to crush those mountains. In like day two, my knees are swelling up and I could barely bend them because they weren't used to it.
You know.
Well, I mean that's a good point. I mean we think, you know, we see camera campaigns and like some of these guys, the David Goggins type fellas, and there's like this this idea that you have to get in shape to hunt the mountains and kill big elk and whatever, which is like it's just not true. It is super beneficial.
But the other thing, like when you when you think, oh, I don't I don't need to be in shape to be a white tail hunter that a lot, which is true, right, Like there's a lot of situations where you don't need to be very physically fit to white tail hunt, but if you don't take care of yourself, you might have something happen where you can't hunt at all, Like you can't get into that tree, or you can't go walk
the four hundred yards into your stand or whatever. So there is a there is an issue there of like taking care of yourself so this thing will be there for you, you know, Like, sure it could get taken away, Like a lot of these non resident opportunities are going away, you know, urban sprawl, lands getting leased up, all the usual suspects for people losing opportunities, but it could be as simple as you not taking care of yourself and finding that you get to that point in your life,
like you said, where you've got some real good deer knowledge. You might have enough money to hunt and everything, but if your body isn't there for you, it doesn't matter.
Yeah, like you're out of the game.
Yeah. Yeah.
I look at a lot of the guys, you know, some of the guys that I went to school with at are my age. I'm forty five and it's like it's kind of shocking, you know how in poor health. Some of these guys are a lot of my a lot of my close friends. We have similar interests, so
they're you know, pretty fit. But yeah, it's it's all, you know, And now I look at things now more less about you know, having the beach body six pack and biceps and more of kind of that the longevity and being able to do what I love, you know, for as long as possible.
We were talking about John Eberhart.
You know, he just turned seventy three or seventy four, like yesterday, and he was out trimming you know, a quarter mile through some cat tails and access to you know, one of his tree stands. He was, you know, sweating, breathing hard. I was talking to him on the phone and I was like, holy crap, man, you are in your seventies and you're doing this. I mean, he's still out there just just killing it and putting that work
and he just hasn't slowed down. And I mean that's a you know, if I could be like that at that age, that's that's a win.
Yeah, huge impressive, that's a huge win.
Yeah.
But that's you know, there's a guy that just has the fire burning man and it's not going out apparently, Yeah, and that doesn't that's that's kind of a rare thing, but it does. It does seem to to feed it, you know, Like I think that a commitment to year round scouting just it keeps you like just motivated for the whole game. You know, Like if you're just I think it's easier to give up. If you're like, well, you know, I go up north one week a year
and I rifle hunt with my relatives or whatever. It's like eventually something's gonna come up, and you're like, I'm not gonna make it, not big deal, do it next year. It's easier to get up give up the less committed you are. But if you kind of force yourself to be like, I got to get something done every week. It's got to put in a little bit of effort. You're not You're just not as likely to just give it up like you're just it's like a snowball thing.
It's going to feed it and makes it more like you like, more important to you, Like now I've got something invested in it. It's not just like showing up and having somebody take you hunting or something, or walk you into the stand.
It's like you did that, Like you did that work.
Don't you feel? Don't you feel though? Like to you know, like the people that are.
The best at what they do, you know, like a Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan the Tiger Woods, like you know, if if you never reached that level, or if you don't even reach a high level, like people look at you and they're like, God, you're obsessed and this is unhealthy or whatever, but it's it's inside you, Like it's almost not a choice, Like you're there's something inside you that is driving you to be to work your hardest at this, to be the best that you can be,
even if you don't ever become great. Like I don't think that I'm a fantas as to hunter, you know, I don't really see that. I know people think I am, but I don't really. I think that I've done it.
A long time.
I've learned a lot. I've learned a lot from my mistakes, and I dedicate myself.
That's it. I don't. I don't think that I do anything special.
I couldn't tell you, like, you know, strengths that I have or you know, or anything that I just I just think that I've put some things together that helped me be successful that anybody could do. There's no talent there, you know. It's just hard work and dedication. But I've
never had to really force myself to do this. It was more of like a I need to do it, you know, And I feel like, yeah, some people might look at a guy like that and call them, you know, obsessed, and it's unhealthy, but that's how you get the people.
That are great. They were obsessed.
And if you know, if it's like if if they make it to a super high level and they're making money at it, then it's cool.
You know, well I'm not doing that.
Then it's an admirable quality, that's right.
But if it's you know, but if it's somebody else that they're obsessed with it and they're they're driven, it's keeping them out of trouble and it's a healthy passion, you know, hopefully not giving up their family for it, but like something that drives them to improve and they become the best that they can be. Like I see that, and I'm like, that guy is a lucky guy. You know, he's living a good life.
You know.
So I for me, I haven't really had to like force myself, like you said, you know once it, you know, once a week to work at this or anything. It's more like more a lot of times I have to almost turn it off, you know, I almost have to do the opposite. But there are times, especially as I get older, where it's I have the knowledge I have spots that I I don't really need to go and
build on spots anymore. I do, but I could take a year off, you know, not add new scouting and just kind of go back with my previous areas that I know and probably have a good But as I get older, there's there's more of that. Like occasionally I come to those those crossroads where it's like, okay, you know you need to get out there and work at it. But I don't know, when I was coming up, it was the opposite. I never had to like make that choice. That choice was made every time I opened my eyes
in the morning. It's like this is what I'm doing after work, and I'm going scouting. I would scout five to six days a week. Literally, I'd go right from work and I would scout tell dark and it was just all I wanted to do, you know, that was like you know twenty you know, I couldn't really do it in college, but like as soon as I got like a regular job, so probably like twenty two through, you know, till when my daughter was born, that's what I did.
And I think.
That that that level of obsessiveness and that focus and devoting all that time, that's where that that's where the I fell in love, and that's where I laid a lot of that groundwork of screwing up but learning a lot because I just devoted so much time to it, you know, just so much time, and then that knowledge builds and you could taper time, taper the time back a little bit, but you're much more keen and tuned in with your decision making and your instincts as a hunter,
or more tuned in. And then not to mention all the benefit of all those areas you've scouted and hunted and all those experiences that you can pull from now and now it's starting to become like a thing right where you are a very effective hunter. So it's like it's kind of like a combination of all that. But I think if a guy's like forcing him, like he wants to be a good hunter. He thinks he wants to, but he's forcing himself, like, all right, you know, once
a week, I'm gonna do this. I sometimes I question if that guy really wants that, or if he just, you know, he wants to shoot a big buck or two or whatever, because I feel like if it's if it's in you, you won't need to fight yourself on it too much. I talk about my daughter a little bit. She's a very talented basketball player. Okay, she has all the potential in the world. I worry about her work ethic in basketball. I've you know, she when she was younger,
she had an incredible work ethic. She was wanting to work all the time, you know, outside of practice, and her and I would just work and work and work, and she just skyrocketed. She was head and shoulders above everybody. And then she hit a certain age where it kind of slowed down and it became more of a more of a hassle of trying to get her to put in the work. And I found myself me trying to, you know, get her to do work rather than her asking me to. So then I started to question, does
she really love this? You know she does she like the competition, but does she or does she really want to be like the best basketball player that she can be, you know, and maybe play at college at some level or some thing. And I'm kind of in that zone right now where I don't know, she's fourteen, She's still got the potential, but she's kind of tapered off a
little bit. She had an injury, but like, that desire and that work ethic is kind of slowing down, and I find myself trying to drag her out to work on her game more than she's wanting to do it. So then I question that because I think if if it's inside you and you really want that, you really have that love and it's that desire to be, like, dude, I want to be the best that I can be at this because I love it so much. I'm so
passionate about it. I want to do this NonStop. It's there and you don't have to fight it too much.
Do you think with her because she broke her ankle, right, she did, so, do you think that she had a moment because she's still coming back from that where she realized this stuff could just go away and it's harder I mean she's fourteen, right, like you might just you know, like, I don't think a lot of people would be surprised if you were like, hey, my fourteen year old doesn't have a strong work ethic.
People will be like, yeah, no, shit, man.
But do you think there was a moment for her where she was working hard, doing everything right, loving the game, and then all of a sudden it's just taken away. You have that volleyball injury, and all of a sudden, you're a sideline for months. Like I wonder if that's like contributing to it.
That's been a huge part of it. But she's always been a hot and cold player. Like she's like a coach's nightmare because and I coached her for a lot of years, so I know she's the coach's dream because she has this super competitive spirit and she gets at a game and a big game and she rises up, you know, and she wants to win, and when if
she doesn't win, it kills her. And she can go to through these periods where she is the hardest worker in the gym, hands down, and she gets us like chip on her shoulder and she'll just take over games. But then she might show up and give you sixty percent and you're like, what in the hell. You know, but you got this other kid over here that gives one hundred percent every time in the gym, and she
slowly climbing the ladder but doesn't have the potential. So she's kind of always had that hot and cold and it's extremely frustrating as a coach. But yeah, after that injury, you know, she's lost a lot of confidence.
She said to me multiple times.
She goes, I don't ever think I'll get back to where I was, you know, and she's like, why why am I even doing this' she said that.
So I try to help her work.
Yeah, yeah, trying to help her work through that, and she is behind, but she's you know, she's climbing back.
She's still a good ballplayer.
She's not where she was, but she's she's climbing back, and you know, I tell her, you know what, You've had a pretty easy life. You're fortunate. You know, you have two parents that love you, You got everything you need. You've never really faced any type of hardship like this is. This is hard, This is adversity, and this is going to make you tougher, even if it even if you don't end up playing basketball in college, like, you're gonna remember going through this because she kept such a positive
mindset through it all. I was like, this is going to help you through life. So yeah, that's a big factor. And we're still working through that, but she's she's coming along. I mean, it's just slow, but I don't know how it'll all pan out.
Man.
Getting a hold of your mental side of things is a is a real benefit, man. I mean, just think about I've had so many times in my hunting life. Oh here's the best example. Yeah, I know you're an anomaly. You went out and killed a giant Michigan buck seven seconds after you started bow hunting. But most people don't quickly kill big ones. Doing hunting the way that you do, and even doing hunting not the way you do with having better properties and stuff.
It's still hard.
But there's you know how it is where people struggle, struggle, struggle, and they killed that first good one, you know, that first big one whatever it is, one twenty five, one forty, whatever that buck is.
That's like that. I'm in the big leagues now.
It seems like people get over that hurdle and they're gonna get over it a lot more. And I think a huge component of that is just you now know that can happen, Like mentally, you go that is a reality for me at some point, Like your daughter saying, you know, I don't think I'll ever get back there again. That's holding her back. But she's thinking about that like that's way on her shoulders because she's never gone through
this and come back. And when she does come back fully, she's gonna be like, holy shit, like what I was thinking was wrong or like I did I read this
situation wrong. And it's a long thing, but the same thing happens to us hunters where man, when you're on the struggle bus and you can't kill a good one or whatever it is you're trying to do your first year or your first big buck, when you cross that, like when that happens to you, you just go, oh, now, I know, like you start to believe in yourself like this can happen again, and yeah, like it doesn't get easy, but it gets easier.
M Yeah, I was really lucky and fortunate, like really early on in my bow hunting journey, I killed a nice buck in Michigan and one that caught a lot of attention. I mean, it wasn't a giant, but it was bigger than any buck all my acquaintances I had ever seen or shot. And it was complete luck. There was a zero skill involved. It was just me being out there and this buck comes walking by, like I didn't know.
He was there.
But after I shot that deer I did, I felt like, wow, you know, I can do this, And then I saw everyone's reaction to it and like, holy crap, you know, like that is a big buck. So then from that point on, early on, I wanted that. I wanted that feeling of being successful on a rare animal, you know, or on an older animal. And I was different than a lot of guys coming up because a lot of guys will shoot, you know, five, six, ten, fifteen little bucks and kind of climb that ladder.
Well.
I shot a spike for my first buck, and it's so small I could I could fit the whole wreck of the pump in my hand. And uh, you know, this was my first buck, but my second buck was like a nice one, you know, And then I never went backwards.
Hey, how did you keep your shit together? When that buck was walking in.
I don't know. You know, I don't, I don't know.
I mean, were you did your eyes pop out of your head when you saw him?
Yeah?
I mean I was completely nervous, but you know I was. I I've told this before, but I took to archery as strong or stronger than I took to bow hunting first. I became completely obsessed with archery. So I was quite good with a bow, even though I had only been shooting it for a couple of years. I mean I was quite good. And you know, it was an easy shot, you know, an easy, easy shot. It wasn't a difficult shot.
But yeah, I was completely nervous and my heart was pounding on my chest, but I made the shot somehow. And uh, from that point on, I became a little more selective than a typical guy starting out.
I mean I wasn't a kid. I wasn't a I was a young adult.
But when you say when you killed that buck and you didn't know he was there and it was total luck when it when it happened for you, did that sort of set you on a course to like think, okay, you knew that was luck, right, Like, no matter what you knew, there was like a component of that, But were you like I got to figure out why?
Why?
Like why did that happen there? I mean, like did it force you to like sort of reverse engineer the situation and go like, how can I get this again? Like he wasn't an accident.
He was there.
Maybe it was an accident. You were there to intercept him to some extent, But did it just like cause you to go, Okay, that feeling I'm chasing that again, like I gotta, I gotta figure out how to make this happen more.
I think that came later. Okay, yeah, I think you know at that point on what it did. What it did do is it made me more selective. I was past I started passing Bucks, which I probably never would have done had I not shot that buck, probably would have shot the next, you know, a four point and then a six point, then a little basket eight.
But I never did that.
I started passing you know, decent like two year old Bucks and stuff. And I was still of the mindset that, you know, you killed big Bucks by just being out there and working hard and putting in your time and being persistent. And that's kind of how I hunted for the next five years. I mean, yes, I started learning, but I was a persistent hunter and just stubborn, you know, putting time out there. But I always, you know, I never I never learned those bad habits from call them bad,
They're not bad. But I never learned habits from like a dad or a grandpa, Like you know, you hang your stand here and you put your your corn pile there, or you know, you hang your stand in this corner of this field and you hunted every day on you know, I never did that.
I was. I hung a few stands as I.
Could afford them, but I always had a stand with me. And I started doing the mobile thing like really early, you know, really early. So I started, probably I don't know, five six years later, It's like, okay, you know, I've been hunting day near every day of the season. I'm seeing a lot, I'm learning a lot. I'm moving towards deer when I observe them, you know, I'm blowing them out. Okay, that was too close, you know, next time, I'm being a little more cautious. Then I noticed my my stand,
my steel stand as noisy as hell. So I'm starting to tape things up on it, try to make it quiet because so I can hang it quietly. You know, I'm starting to piece these things together on my own, and you know, you start to learn that, Okay, you know, just because I'm sitting here and I see a deer, move over there. I don't have to sit here and hope he comes by tomorrow. Like no, I'm going to move over there and try and try to make a move on him. So that became my my style immediately.
I didn't have anybody teaching me otherwise.
Dude.
That's I've talked about this too, but that's exactly how I started. I had one stand, one big steel stand with a chain on it, and I'd go out find a place that looked like it should I should be able to see a deer. So I was hunting like the beautiful woods you know are the field edge, and then I'd see one like pull it every night, move
it like so like accidental mobile hunting. And you just realize, I think when you do that versus like you said, like a lot of people they're like, I have my stand, Like I went to my stand and it's like the ladders stand on the edge of the field or whatever, and that's great, but you don't experience necessarily what you need to to get good at figuring out deer. That way, like you're just like I'm gonna cross my fingers and
hope they come by, you know. And sometimes it's like if you're on a really small property or something like it, there's there's only so much you can do, but you also should probably find some other place to hunt, like you know. But anyway, when you when you start doing that, you do just it starts to feed itself. It's like, man, I like having a new view. I like, no, if I sit here today and it sucks, I'm not here tomorrow,
you know, like I'm gonna go find something else. Or like you said, you see a buck walking somewhere, you just go there, like the next time you can go there, when you can hunt and the conditions are right, you just move there and maybe he comes by, maybe he doesn't. But man, the game changes when you're like in that mindset and you just give into it and do it a lot.
Yep.
And then if you have that mindset too, of like when you're trying all these things and you're really you know, you fail and you're making these mistakes, you're really like breaking it down, like not just like oh shoot, you know, I blow them out and you'll leave and you never think about it again. You're thinking about why it failed, What could I have done differently to make it not fail? Like could I have been quieter setting up the stand?
Or what if I had hunted from the ground here and didn't even get up in the stand, he would never would have known I was here, Or I needed to be in that tree instead of this one, or you know, he was using the wind in a certain way and it didn't work for our I was sitting
because it was swirling here. Whatever it is. You start to least those things together, but you have to have that that mindset of like I've heard you and Mark talk about it, like asking yourself why and really trying to figure this out, like really trying to learn and dig into this. And it's a long game. It's a it's a it's a journey. It's a marathon of just
building that information. You're slowly piecing these things together, and then you get that count, you get more confidence to you know, to try these things because you've you've you've messed up on them, and you've screwed up on things. So you have a little more confidence to try do things and continue to learn.
So, man, when you you said something there that made me think of this sort of there's like an intangible skill that some people have who've done a lot of mobile hunting, which is and it ties the scouting too, like it it eventually gets there. But reading trees, like reading your setups. I mean I go out there and I'm sure you've done this too, Like I've gone out with people who aren't just not very experienced, and they're like, where's my perfectly straight tree, you know, with no limbs
that I can get into super easy. And then they're up fourteen feet facing right where they expect the deer to come from. And then you watch somebody who's done a lot of the mobile hunting and grew up doing it like you're talking about, and the way that they view their setups.
Is like an art.
It's like I'm going to get there's a you know, I can see up in that tree and it it's crooked this way, but all of a sudden, there's six feet where it's you know, flat and straight up, and that's facing away from the deer going to be passing by here at twenty three yards and like you get tucked in there, and it's really that's probably one of the biggest benefits if you're kind of new to this or you're struggling a little bit, if you can get with somebody who knows how that game and watch them
go out, have them read trees, like have them read a situation. Cause you know, we talk about scouting and it's like, go find the spot where the buck's like to walk right, Like where's the community scrape or whatever, Like that's a component you got to be around deer. But if you don't know how to do that set up correctly, if you're hunting really pressure, dear, you're you're
at a big disadvantage. And the more you do it, the better you get it, because, like you said, if that wind's swirling in there, or you get busted, you know, grabbing your bow or however it shakes out, every one of those is a learning experience. And you know, like you probably do this, you know, every season, and I
know I do. Where I look at a tree, I'm like, that's the one, and then I get all the way up there and get set up and I look around, I go nope, and it all comes down and now I'm ten yards over this way, or I just can't get it.
To work for whatever reason.
But there's an art to that that starts probably winter scouting, I would think, and just like, Okay, this spot covered in rubs, looks like he's coming from this swamp or he's using this bench.
How how do I take advantage of that? Like where's the setup?
And it's not just like Okay, there's a straight tree over there, that's good enough. It's like you got to get over there, get the base of that, walk around it, like take a real look, and then you got to figure out how do I get in there? Like can I get here? This might be the greatest spot in the world, doesn't do any good if you can't access it.
There's so much to it.
Yeah, it's funny you say that, because you know that's just being you know, a good woodsman, and it comes from experience, you know, getting busted and whatnot. And you know, I feel like I'm pretty good at that. You know, I feel like I'm pretty good at you know, picking those trees and picking where I can you know, stay hidden up in the tree where I won't get detected. But the last couple of years, I have kind of regressed in some of the basic woodsmanship of like tree
selection and set up selection. And I've talked about this before, like I've made so many mistakes the last couple of years.
It's insane.
But that's what I love about bon hunting is because it's so it could be so humbling, and I am humbled. Like I had a great ear last year, but believe me.
I am humbled.
I have no elevated sense of self trust me. But dude, I got busted so many times because I started getting I don't even want to cocky or arrogant, because I never felt cocky or arrogant, but I felt like I could pull off things because I had had done it successfully. I started to get a little careless with my setups and in setting up exactly like you said, you know this tree, you know it's not perfect, but I'll pull
it off. You know, I'll just hold still and I'll pull it off, or I'll hide behind the tree until the deer comes through. Well, it's it's all these other deer that are coming through first and get behind you, and you're fifteen foot up in a saddle with no cover and it's like they're right here looking up.
At you, like what in the heck?
Or you're in the tree stand like you said, facing and you know that deer picks you off from eighty yards away as you're like, you know, you pick your nose or something.
You're like Jesus.
So, you know, I started to get away from some of the basics, like the stuff you learn in those first five years of hunting when you're really kind of in tune. I started getting away from some of that.
And it bites in the ass, man.
It does. I mean, that's what I love.
I just love that about bow hunting because you I feel like I never I never reach a pinnacle, right like you you do well, you have some good seasons, and it just knocks you right back down.
You know, I wounded.
I wounded a deer this year, an easy bow shot, like a shot that someone with my experience should never make. I made up for it and got him later in the season. I hit another buck, didn't recover him, recovered them after the season, lost the meat.
You know. It's a terrible feeling.
Yep.
Mistakes, you know, mistakes, and it's just it just humbles me. And if anything, it just it realigns my focus that, you know what, you're not that good at this. There is a lot of room for growth and you can do better. And it kind of reinvigorates that that drive a little bit, that like there's still there's still a lot of work to do, there's still a lot of improvements to be made. If that's your goal, if you're still want to be the best ball hunter you could be,
You're not there yet. So it's it's it's it's cool. Is as painful as that is. It can knock you down several pegs, and you know, maybe I needed it, maybe I didn't, but just just some of that basic stuff, basic setting up in a tree and staying in the shadows and things that we know, you know, just staying undetected. And I was getting a little careless with my setups,
and I was getting busted left and right. I felt like, out of out of every ten hunts, nine hunts, I was alerting the whole woods that I'm of my presence, like here I am, I'm hunting you guys now, like run, you know.
It's like it's just every time I was accessing.
Like deer, we're fine everywhere, and I'm like, what's going on, Like I just you know.
Do you feel like you were? Because I know for me, I'm I'm pretty type A with that stuff. But I can do the same thing I get. I can just like I can get a little lazy, or I can think, I can think like I'm good enough to get around this.
And then if I set up or you know, not only set up, but access like you're talking or whatever, if I have that like nagging feeling in my head that I settled, like you settled for something, like you settled for this tree, or you settled for this spot, or you know, like you settled for walking in the easy way instead of the way you you knew you should.
I I always regret it like it's a it's it not only is it a mental thing, but like you said, it actually becomes something that costs me, dear, And I know I'm doing it like you know you're doing it sometimes, Like we were talking on the when we were on the boat one day about the difference between sitting in a tree stand and sitting in a saddle, And it's easier to move in a saddle sometimes because you're hanging off the so you have to you know, if you're
sitting down in a stand, you don't have to think about not moving as much, but when you're hanging from a saddle, you have to be more conscious of that. You have to be more cognizant of the fact that you can swing around a little or you know, your kind of hands free and doing your thing. And it's just it's like it's not a knock on them, but it's like something that you have to actively acknowledge and work at otherwise it costs your dear.
Yeah, yeah, for sure, just staying still and that that's something that is getting harder for me as I age, is sitting still, and it has to do with a lot of to do with like my hips in my back, because when I sit or stand or just stay stationary and don't move for a period of time, I became I become real antsy and my back will actually start to like cinch up and I'll get pain in my hips and I kind of need to I kind of
need to like rotate and stretch my back out. So I'm I'm doing that a lot in the tree and it's costing me. You know, I'm getting detected a little bit, and it's yeah, you like sometimes I could just like tough it out and be like don't move, don't move, but then it's like you just lose focused. And I just I'm so used to doing that throughout the day. Like you see me on the boat, like I'm stretching and I'm you know, turning and stretching my back it
cinches up. So it's something I have to be really cognizan of cognizant of up in the tree because I have been getting picked off more as I age. But you know, it's all it's all fun. It's just as you get older and you experience more things change, new challenges come, and uh, I don't know it's fun.
But I mean I think I think you're right though, when you keep doing this stuff. You know, we've kind of in the hunting industry, we've sold this message that you know, you buy this clothes or you buy these calls or you do whatever, and you listen to whoever talk and you emulate them. Eventually you're going to get
this thing mastered. And you just don't like you every season and you know, you've had some just banger seasons and I've had a couple that were is freaking awesome, but you're never that far away from that clunker where that just like sets you back into reality where you go like you can't you can't win this game. Like you can keep playing and you can have some success, but overall, it's gonna kick your ass most of the time,
and I don't care. You might string together four or five really good seasons with White Tails a Western game in a row, and you're gonna have one where you're like, I'm just making huge mistakes, like I just can't get it together, and that's just the way it goes. But that's I think that's why it's so addicting.
Mm hm, Like.
I mean, I think we kind of need to be knocked on our ass a little bit and try something really hard and still fail and still go like have to get up and make that decision like you were talking about earlier, like am I gonna keep doing this this thing that's not being very much fun for me right now but I know what it'll give me when it works out? Or am I gonna just not do it? Or am I gonna just go settle for that easy?
And it's it's a weird. It's weird that we choose to do this, like it's weird that you know, all the people listening is love da whitetail hunt when it it's guaranteed to do that to you and make you feel so small and so humbled and so bad at it. But it's like there's something to that.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that does. It's what keeps you coming back, right, It's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like golf.
You can't master it.
You know you're gonna hit bad shots and you're gonna have bad scores, but it like you get those few good, clean hits, it keeps you coming back. And you know, hunting is the same way, like you you get knocked on your butt and it kind of like in my case, it reinvigorates the drive, like I don't want that to happen again. I got to button that up, and you do and then something else happens, you know, and it's just it's just constant, and you just you start to realize,
like you're never like a master hunter. You know, you're out there with wild animals and you're gonna make mistakes because you're huge.
Man. It's hard, and you're up against.
Something that is doesn't want to be killed and is extremely you know, the instincts are the survival instincts are just really hard to overcome.
Yeah, and if you ever have anybody out there tell you that they're a master hunter, maybe throat punch them and run away because you don't need that shit in your life. It's kind of like, you know, giving yourself a nickname, like just don't do it. Just don't do it, like that's that's not cool. If somebody else wants to give you a nickname, great, Uh, don't give yourself one.
Animet. We have to go catch some fish here. We can't.
We can't talk about deer forever. Let's wrap this sucker up. Because we were going to talk about scouting. We mostly didn't, which which is okay. We cover We covered a lot of good stuff. First off. How like, any given week throughout the summer right now, how many days are you giving a little bit of your time to scouting?
I would say I probably am averaging like scouting.
I'm talking like you're going out to a piece of ground and you're scouting some new ground or a piece of permission property or whatever. You're setting stands, are actually looking for sign two to three days per week. Yeah, I would say probably, but there might be a week where I don't do any And if I don't do any I'm going to be doing way more shooting my bow. I'm going to be doing something else that I think
is going to help me get better. But as far as like, yeah, boots on the ground scouting, you know, it really peaks in that kind of like March April timeframe. I try to get a lot done as soon as that snow melts. Yep, That's when I like to get a lot of it done. And then kind of turkey rolls in. I'm still scouting, but I'm trying to get some turkey hunting. In May, I'm still doing quite a bit of scouting. And then you're starting to get to that June in July, and it slows down for me.
If I feel like I haven't gotten to a lot of stuff, I'll continue kind of sprinkling it throughout the summer. If I feel like I've done a great job, you know, in that early spring and spring, you know, maybe I focus more on some other things. It just kind of depends that June and July tends to slow down a little bit. I don't feel like I need to be out pound in the woods a lot. I try to do that earlier, but if I can't, I'll sprinkle it through maybe once a week, maybe twice a week, maybe
three times a week, just depending on the time. And as you get closer to season, that's when I start to ramp it up a little bit. I might get some cameras out. I'm starting to do a little more glassing. I'm really starting to prepare for an early season hunt, you know, whether that's out of state or in state. I'm trying to locate maybe a specific deer, narrow down one or two specific dear to chase in my home
state or Ohio or wherever I'm at. So there's a gap in there where it kind of slows down, and we're kind of approaching that gap right now. I didn't get as much spring scouting in done as I wanted to.
I got quite a.
Bit, So I'll probably continue the one to three days a week yep, throughout the summer.
Do do you feel because I you know, we've talked about there's a ton with winter scouting, and I'm the same way, Like the value there is way high, and then you get into midsummer, and to me, like winter scouting is, I'm I'm sort of building just a database of spots that I'm like, this place could be, you know, an October spot or you know whatever, This could be a rut funnel blah blah blah, like just kind of
like backfill in some of those spots. But you're also just building knowledge of an area, like I know, I want to be around this area because of the sign or whatever. But there's not like a lot of specific plans built around spring scouting. It's just like generally good for me, you know, Like I know, it's generally gonna
help me out. And then you get into the summer, and like you said, you might start glass and you might start you know, running some cameras, and then the summer starts to get closer to the end and you start to put together like real pieces of a plan, you know what I mean. Likeuse now you're kinda maybe drawn from some of that spring scouting and going, man, you know, that place was covered in rubs and then I saw this big buck out in the field and you're like, Okay, is he gonna be here on October
one open or whatever? And then you start to make like specific plans for deer.
Do you do that, Yeah, a lot of my One of the reasons I like to scout in the spring before green up is specifically for like rut hunting, like you said, more of like a general area I'm looking for rut sign maybe some good rout funnels in between,
like some bedding areas or whatever. I might be just using that time to tackle a whole new area that I've never been in, or an area that I want to learn more because I can just see everything so clearly, and you're just kind of, like you said, generally learning the area, maybe some spots to key in on for the next season or seasons down the road, kind of like the beginning of that process. But a lot of times too, I love that time for actually being a
little more specific. Like if I know that a big buck survived in this area and I think I maybe have access or you know, he's betted on this piece of public or on this piece of ground that I can access, or he might be betted some of the time,
and I don't know that. I'm diving in and I'm really trying to find that and I'm trying to figure out maybe through what I see in sign and like the age of it, the timing of it, trying to maybe estimate a timeframe of when he's using this area, going back with what are some of my observations of the deer? When did I see him coming through? Did he kind of start showing up here more in that late October timeframe? So that kind of keys me in on maybe when I'm going to target this dear, maybe
look at some pictures that you have. If you have some trail cam pictures, but you're trying to piece together more of like a specific animal, I think that's a really key time to do that, especially if you could find like some of where you think he's actually betting, you know, maybe on some specific wind directions or whatever.
So I think that could be I think that time frame can be really valuable for like specific deers, specific situations, but it all go also is great for just general knowledge, especially if you're going to like a new area, like when I draw, or like when I'm trying to prepare for like a hunt in Iowa or something. You know, I'm going out there in March before green up and I'm pounding lots of ground. I'm not really trying to target necessarily like a loan buckbed. You know, I'm trying
to find good deer sign. I'm trying to find some good mature buck sign, maybe a higher deer density, or maybe a concentration of really big bucks, like in the
back corner of this piece of public or something. And I'm starting to piece together really good areas and I know I'm going to come back at that timeframe that will be valuable, but that might be different somewhere back home, or I can maybe build history with a certain animal and I know he made it, and it's like, man, this is going to be a good deer next year.
I want to devote some time to this. I want to learn as much as I can about this deer now, and that's a great time to do it with, you know, like with most places, like broken up, fragmented property, even pieces of public, A lot of times that deer isn't
living his whole life, you know, on that piece. So you're trying to figure out is he you know, is this a deer I can hunt all year long and you're trying to figure out different strategies for different times of the year, or is it a case where man he's only here early season, and I got to try to get a crack at this deer. First thing, you know, where's he bedded, where's the food going to be? You know, is this a nag type thing? Or are the are
the crop field swapping, you know, changing crop rotation? You know, these are all things I'm trying to plan out for an early season kill. If that's when that deer is using that area, or it might be like in most cases, where this deer is betting somewhere else and he kind of shows up in an area where I'd like to hunt or where I hunt where there's decent dome numbers, and it becomes more of like, ah, like a pre
rut type rut situation. So then I'm just trying to piece all that together and trying to find like where's that, where's that key ambush point where I can target this animal? Or if it's not a specific animal, maybe it's a good area where there's a number of deer that you would shoot, you know, a handful of nice bucks in this in this large area. You know, where's that, where's that area? Where are those key funnels that at this time of year, it's likely for some of these to
come through. So it really depends on the situation and the hunt and what I'm trying to do. But once you start dialing in a piece of ground, it becomes more of like when is the timing right? Like when can I really dial in this timing so that I can hunt this piece of ground or this spot at the optimal time, or when is this animal most vulnerable? And I'm trying to learn, you know, if it's a
specific deer, trying to learn as much as possible. And that's much different than if I'm going out of state and doing a quick spring scout and trying to find a general area where I think it's going to be good deer hunting into some ambush locations. So it really depends on the goal where you're hunting, the how familiar are with that area, and then if you're familiar with certain bucks or a certain certain caliber of buck in that area that you're trying to capitalize on.
Yeah, what you said there about the timing, like scouting for timing, this comes up a lot with people who really know what they're doing. We think scouting is just go find that spot that the big buck made a bunch of rubs and you're good, and it's like, well when, like when can you cross paths with him? And that's something you know when you mentioned you know, like I might have a forty acre chunk to hunt or something, or an eighty acre and that's one sixth or one
eighth or one tenth of that bucks home range. It's like, Okay, well, when's he there or when are the bucks? Like I've got a little property in northern Wisconsin. I don't know why. I don't know why this happens. Maybe it's a mass thing or something. But usually the end of September beginning of October, I'll have the biggest bucks of the season show up on camera there, and not only them, but
like more bucks than usually any other time. And there's like a one or two week window where they're there, and then it's back to their normal, like they might randomly pass to in the middle of the night. And I don't know why it is, but that's the way it is, you know. And I do think over there, maybe it's tied to you know, because there's baiting's allowed there, So if you're not baiting and it's opener, all your
dear are gone. And then people kind of get sick of it, and they don't run those bait sites as much. So I think those deer are like I got to go find some food. Think that might be the answer to it. I don't know, but what I do know is if I want to encounter one, that's when I go,
you know. And so when you think about scouting, think about it at what you find, how does it relate to when you should hunt, not just rut Like is this more of like a Halloween staging area type thing, or is this like that bang in funnel?
Or like what are you working with there? Because the more you find tune that through scouting, the more you just cross paths with them.
Yeah, and think about this.
So, just like you said, I have a spot that I multiple spots, but one spot in particular that it's a for whatever reason, early season down in Ohio. I'm talking like the first couple of days of the season, there's a bachelor group of bucks in there. And after it could be it could be the day after the season starts, or it could be a week after, but at some sometime in that timeframe, they're they're just gone
and they don't come back. And I found that spot through glassing, and it's a spot where nobody looks, nobody hunts, and nobody expects dear to be there, but they're there. They're there every year, and it gives me a little window to target an opener Ohio book. Now there's not always a buck I want to shoot in there, but if there is, I got to play at them. And then, you know, because I've been focused on, you know, optimizing
that timing and really analyzing that. When you're reading sign or observing or going through your trul Can pictures, picture a whole season of a library of spots that you've hunted for the last twenty twenty five years, where you
know that these spots heat up during these timeframes. Like I can look back and go through an entire season of time frame where historically these small pieces if we're talking about kind of small corners of public land, because usually it's like you know, the back part of the public land or a little corner where it's the best or whatever, or these small permission spots or whatever, you can literally like tentatively plan out a whole season where things should be good.
Now, masks can change things.
If there's not an a corn drop and the does aren't in there, or crop rotation or hunting pressure, things get thrown. Wrenches get thrown it all the time. That
throw things off. But that's how a big reason why, at least on my home turf, you know, four counties in Michigan and three counties in Ohio where I can be pretty efficient because I'm I'm really thorough with my scouting, but I also have that knowledge of timing, like, Okay, I don't have anything going on, I'm gonna go look here, because usually some bucks start to show up here right around that mid October timeframe, and I start glassing out there, pop a few.
Cameras and boom, mym on one.
You know, And that's from history, and it's from it's from it's from building that over a lot of years. And I can go from one to the next, and it, like I said, I might fall flat on my face on one that should be hot, but it's not hot now because there's a hunter set up there, a new guy. Then you go to the next one. It's it's finding that optimal timing. And then a lot of times you can have that library and that kind of that tentative plan.
But while you're searching, and while you're scouting for all this other stuff, like a new pattern shows up, you run into this new buck and or you get a picture of them, or you get a glimpse of them. It's like boom, you got that little window. So what I found is like, yeah, those short little timing things can be extremely deady, deadly, especially when you dial them
in and you're hunting them. You know, perfect conditions, perfect timeframe with the right wind, and you're slipping in there and a lot of times you can get one killed.
But then also throughout the season, just by being out there and scouting, like more than actually hunting, you come up ross these little these bucks and these opportunities that you didn't plan for, but there they are, and they're in there now for you know, two days, three days, five days, six days, and you got to kill and get him killed now or he's gone and maybe you take a stab at it and he's gone. Well like now you got another pattern. Now next year is like
is he gonna be back at this time? And you're running a camera, you're glassing boonies back again, So now you have another pattern moving forward.
You've scouted in a way to keep yourself hunting or in the game all season long season, and that's so important instead of just being like I gotta save this for the rut or I gotta save my time and not go do this. Instead, you just get yourself into a position where you're like, I believe every time I go, I can get on something, I can be into it in a way.
Man.
That's that's a Maybe the best way to end this is if you're out there and you're like, I want to scout more like Animey scout, so you feel confident every day this season that you have at least a plan to start with. And like you said, man, just even even if you're like, ah, this this area should be good now because it's October tenth, maybe they'll be on scrapes or whatever.
So much of it.
Is just being out there because like mother nature is gonna give you something. So even if your plan fails ninety percent of the time, which it probably does, something else shows itself. Some other thing comes in and you go. It's like East scouting. You go, I'm gonna set there. I'm gonna set there. I'm gonna set there, and you know, or scout and you like, I'm gonna walk into this marsh, I'm gonna look at it, and I'm gonna go up on this ridge and you have this whole plan laid out.
You pull out your on X and you're like, I got it dialed. And then you get out there and you're like, whoh, look at the little island in the swamp, or look at that bench up there, or why are these rubs facing this way? And it's like half of it is just getting your ass out there to like figure that stuff out. And it's not necessarily such a terminator, like I know exactly how to do this and this
is the plan and this always works. It's like, no, well, it's just enough to get you there and you're in the game when you're there, and that that's so important.
I think.
I think a lot of uh, you know, a lot of my and I'm not always efficient, but a lot of my efficiency, because I sometimes I am quite efficient, is the fact that I'm I'm not going out there and just sitting every hunt. Every time I have a chance to hunt, a lot of the time I am scouting or searching or checking to see if it's worth
a hunt. And that's kind of my process. And like like as far as like an opening day hunt, like I'm putting the work in prior to the opening day, searching and glassing and checking cameras and stuff to find that target buck so I can go in and kill them that day or that first two or three days or whatever. But then once that season starts going, it's more of a scout scout scout find something that deserves a sit and deserves to dive in, and then you
go try to make it happen. The only other thing that I will do where I will get up in a tree sometimes is I will get up where I can see a long ways and I can observe like overlooking a marsh or maybe an egg ground. You can overlook some like crp that's hidden from the road that dips down or whatever something like that. Like I've I've capitalized on that. But again you're trying to gather information so that you could dive in and make a quick hunt.
I don't hunt like I used to, where I used to just be up in a tree and just pound the hours and eventually you get a crack. But that's that's the key to the efficiency. It's it's mastering that timing mastering the conference and confidence in all the different tactics. But but waiting until you get that information or that confidence that that you feel it's worth a sit, you know, and it's I won't just go sit without something.
And it might be it might.
Be your going in in season and you got a stay under a saddle on and you're just scouting for hot sign. It's like boom, you find that sign and it feels like it's red hot. It should be red hot, and you kind of the hole the way the land Escape lays out. You paint this picture of like, this is what's happening to me. That's worth the sit, you know,
if you like the signs big buck, mature sign. It might be I go in that same scenario and I find old sign and it looks like it's cold and it's just not I don't get that feeling that it's worth the sit.
I just keep going.
I keep going until I find that and if it gets dark or whatever, I'm onto the next day and then maybe I'm glassing or I'm checking camera. I'm doing that same thing. But eventually I come across something that's like Okay, now now's the time I got to get in here and maybe I get something killed on the first day, or maybe it's the fifth day because I start playing a cat and mouse game with him and
maybe I burn it out and it doesn't happen. But now I got that knowledge, like dude, he was in here at this time, and it just goes into the bank. You know, something to check on next year, because it might be that same buck, or it might be one of those spots where mature bucks just show up here at this time of year. So it's like accumulating that and it really pays off if you could really pay attention somehow document that or whatever, keep track of it. It can really save you when you get into a
tough spot the season. You start falling back on these things that you've that you've that you've learned and experienced.
Yeah, keeps you from settling. Man.
I said it a half hour ago and I'm saying it now. We're gonna go do it. We got to go catch some small mouth Andy. Thanks for coming on, man, it's always it's always so fun to chat with you, and it's been a lot of fun to fish with you. And these people who are listening to this are gonna get to see this next year. It's gonna be a while, but they'll get to see probably who I would say is their favorite white tail hunter. I'm just guessing, Uh, go out catch some bass. So let's go do that, buddy.
All right? Sounds good? Thanks Tony.
That's it for this week, folks, be sure to tune in next week for some more white tail scouting goodness. This has been the Wire to Hunt podcast and I'm your guest host, Tony Peterson. As always, I want to thank you so much for listening for your support. I really appreciate everyone here at media really appreciates that you guys are part of the audience and you support us,
So thank you for that. If you want more white to content, head on over to the medeater dot com and you'll see you know, the new the new series by the Element Boys Buck Truck. It's called I Make an Appearance, Clay makes an Appearance, Mark Makes an Appearance. Just some good old boys killing a ton of public land bucks on that series. You can also read articles by myself and Mark in a whole bunch of white tail addicts over there. Go to the medeater dot com.
Check it out. You'll find something you like.