Ep. 609: How to Break Yourself Out of a Deer Hunting Slump with Alex Gyllstrom

of Mark Kenyon. Good Old Kenyon actually caught a private jet down to California to spend some time in Silicon Valley. It turns out that Meta, you know, the company that owns Facebook and Instagram, is giving Mark in a war ard for most social media selfies in a single year, at least in the thirty to thirty nine men's age class category. I think what's that lizard guy's name, Zuckerberg. I think Zuckerberg is actually presenting the awards. So that's uh,

I guess pretty cool for Mark. And speaking of Mark, a guy who has no doubt faced all kinds of slumps in his life. That's the whole theme behind this podcast with Alex Gilstrom. We all face bad streaks of white tail hunting and it's tough to break the slump and get out of them. So today, Alex, you know, who's a die hard public land hunter and one of the corner office folks over there at white Tail Properties, he and I are going to talk about the worst

streaks we've ever had and how we broke them. I think anyone who hunts white Tails can relate to this episode and if you can't keep hunting, and eventually you'll be able to relate. Gilly, how are you doing, buddy?

I'm doing well, man, I'm doing well. You have a baby, which is your first one that you know about, right, but I know that is correct, and that baby is do win the babies do February eight, okay, and that So not to get too personal here, but I'm gonna anyway, was that timed out around deer hunting or was that

just a happy accident? A little bit of both? We actually not without again not without to get into into a whole a whole saga of the story here, but we we we really we went through kind of a battle, man. I mean we we we had originally we were doing the whole like timing thing right, so like we were married for about a couple of years, and we're like, Okay, now it's like time to know I want to start

a family. I'm not getting younger, certainly not getting any better looking, so we need to start trying to get these uh, get these kids going right. And and so we went the whole thing. We got pretty we got pregnant fairly quickly, and then had a miscarriage. So I was like, okay, we'll shoot, Like what's I gonna do? So I went through that whole thing, and I was like, all, we're gonna start trying again. And then like could not

get pregnant for like two almost two years. So it reached it reached the point where at first we were definitely on the on the track of like okay, let's be smart about this, let's really time this, and then it will reach the point of like okay, we just gotta do whatever we can do to make it happen.

So like went through like the whole infertility thing, and everything ended up checking out okay, and got the right you know, the right help, and we were and all things considered, we were pretty lucky, which meaning it took very it took little guidance or help for us to actually conceive and make it happen. So that was great, but uh, all that aside, it ended up working out perfectly from a time standpoint. So this is gonna be

a terrible analogy, I'm gonna say it anyway. So you started out and you're like the the die hard pheasant hunter with a pointer, and you've got the nice over under and you're like, only perfect points, perfect flushes, and only I'm only taking the right shot, and then it's a whiff, and then you lose one in the grass, and you lose one in the cattails, and pretty soon you've got the semi auto with five shells and you're

shooting himut of the car window. Yeah, and where you're like where You're like, I think that was a rooster, right, It's like, yeah, we were definitely. I was definitely there. You're googling the game farms closest to your house, you can go shoot some planet birds just to feel better exactly. Yeah, who's running? Yeah, who's running? Plant discounts? Were planting bird discounts and stuff like that. We were, Yeah, we were on that version of baby of having the baby. So well,

I'm so happy for you, man. You you got lucky, you know, we had a vastly different experience. We've we got pregnant instantly, like barely any trying whatsoever. And it was like, I'm like, it's got to be right after deer season and as far before Turkey season as it could possibly be, and I mean I nailed it. It was perfect and that except instead of one baby, we had to and twins always come early. So I was literally buying groceries to go muzzleloader hunting. I'm like, I

got six weeks left before these kids are coming. And my wife called me and she's like, my water broke and I was like, I hate to admit this, so I'm gonna anyway, I thought. Then I'm like, this is gonna screw up my muzzle or hunting for the rest of my life. And it literally has Yep. I get it, dude.

I totally understand where it's like you hear stories from buddies where it's like, oh, you know, and it's and you like see and then they turn it into a positive, right, But like these kids that are born during November and it's like, oh, I get to hunt with my kids and this and the birth you know, they get to the birthday buck and all of this and that, and I'm like, that sounds great, but what does it take like a dozen years before it gets cool, Like I

mean that does not sound fun, Like yeah, I mean you can hunt with your kid when they're born anytime, Like yeah, I know, I mean, you gotta you gotta look for the silver lining on that stuff. But it's I'm curious with you. You and I We've known each other a long time. We did, uh we did a thing for North American white tail for a couple of years called Project Public where we hunted a much public land, and so we've been you know, we've kind of flown

in the same circle for a long time. You do a lot of public land stuff, and I you know, when when we were gonna have the girls, everybody's like, oh, you're not gonna have any more time to hunt, like you're gonna be and I'm like, well, you know, it's my job and I'm gonna do this. Like I wasn't that worried about it. But what I was worried about was going from essentially not unlimited time, but like real time.

If I got a tag somewhere, I'm like, I can give this eight or ten days, which is a lot of time and then you know to be in okay, you've got three days, four days, whatever, And I was I was worried that. I was like, I'm gonna hit a bunch of these these streaks where I'm just not going to be able to make it happen. And it actually made me super focused and I went on a tear for several years after we had the girls because it was like, you only have x amount of time

and you better get real efficient with it. And so I'm curious to see how this shakes out for you, because I think you know, and I think I talked to any May about this too one time. Like I think for some people it's like a major driver to like get your ship together and like you don't, you don't have time to waste anymore for me, and you're totally agree. So efficiency has always been a huge focus for me for a month for a number of reasons, like obviously super lucky to have a career in the

outdoor industry. But like you know, I'll say, like I write a lot of stuff with you, like we do a lot of you know, a lot of content stuff too, but like I have a day job, right thankfully it's in the outdoor industry, which is fantastic, but there's still like everybody thinks, like we joke about it all the time in the hunting industry, it's like I should have Like we was like, man, if I wanted to hunt all the time, I should have just got I should

have gotten to the fishing industry, not not the other way around. So it's kind of like it's kind of real, Like you know, people think we just get to hunt all the time and doing me wrong. I'm not playing. We do get to hunt a lot and it's awesome, but um, there's still responsibilities and priorities and things like that. When you're you know, managing teams and multiple people, you've got you've got things to do. So efficiency is super important. I got married, like that enters a whole new realm

of responsibility and priorities. And I want to be there and spend time with my wife and I want to you know, have be that have the presence. So efficiency has always been a huge focus of mine. And and just like you, I mean I love to go a lot of different places and do a lot of hunts,

there's only so much time. So actually I talked about and write about this a lot, and it's like, I call it like hunting with a three day mindset, and so regardless of where you are, how much time he hands, like what if you only had three days to get

it done? And so I really and now more importantly, I'm hoping that that philosophy and kind of my my approach from that standpoint has led me to be able to kind of continue that and probably even ramp it up even more so once kid, you know, once the baby gets here and the kids start going, I mean, and then I mean, by knowing me, it's like I always you know, talk like any Maine and you said, like he said it, it's like it's it's so amazing how efficient that guy actually is and continues to get

it done so consistently. Um not on that level. I don't pretend to like I'm like the last ten minutes of daylight on the final day of wherever I'm gonna be, Like, that's when I kid, and then I've got to figure out, Okay, I need more time tomorrow to cut process the deer, cape them out, do whatever I'm gonna do, because this

always happens that way. But um yeah, efficiency. To your point, efficiency is a major driver behind you know, what I do, just because there's so many other things going on, and is as much as I would just like, oh, I'm gonna dedicate how I'm gonna be at this state or in this place, however long it takes, and that's what I'm here to do, and it just it never seems to work out that way. But definitely, uh yeah, I'm I'm not oblivious to the fact that efficiency is going

to be a major major priority moving well. And I think that you know, you've done this a lot. I've done this a lot where we just encourage people to go travel and try these hunts because you really find out a lot about yourself. And I think what bites a lot of hunters in the ass is if you're if you're the kind of guy who's like, I've got my grandma's farm or this lease or whatever, and I hunt in state I can only afford to do this, or I don't have the desire to travel, you can

kind of get complacent with that. And I think a lot of people go, you know, I could hunt September, I could hunt early October, but I'm gonna wait for the rut and I'll get it done then. And then you go to when you should be able to get it done and the weather sucks and it's seventy five degrees and or you know whatever, what things conspire against you, and it just doesn't happen. And now you look back and you go, man, I had an awful lot of

opportunities I could have hunted earlier and didn't. And now you're in that late season situation where your tag is not filled and it's just a different ball game. And when you go do those You know, if you travel a lot of state one time and you're like, I've got five days and I got this expensive nonresident tag to make the most of it, changes how you focus.

And I know you do this a lot. Like when I travel, it doesn't matter where I go, I'm always bringing home something with me where I'm like, I can use that in Minnesota or where in Wisconsin where I hunt a lot where I do tend, I should have more time. And I think those lessons are so important. You you learn I mean, yes, I mean I've learned it,

especially taught me how to hunt. I mean, don't get me wrong, Like you know, I grew up hunting permission properties in southwest Michione and everything like that with my dad and family and stuff. And you you you cut your teeth and you learn like like really big like maybe maybe pillar esque like values and like, okay, you know, I need to play the win because you know the

core the core concepts are strategies behind hunting. You can learn that stuff and obviously continue to learn if you're if your if your perspectives right, you can certainly learn you know, tons and tons of tons on private land, but public hunting, like you said, from the efficiency standpoint, limited time to get it done, and just learning nutrain in different habitats. I mean, that is what has sculpted like my knowledge base of hunting and how to how

to do it. You know, how to get it done on white tails and I I mean, you never know what the future holds. And I know you with the girls getting older and everything that you've certainly spent more time than you had in the past on private land like a your farm or whatever, of just you know, being able to enjoy that time with your family and do that more. And I'm sure that's in my future

as well. But I can't imagine a scenario where I'm never gonna not hunt public land simply from the standpoint of my hunting isn't isn't I want to kill the bit of course I want to kill. I like killing big mature dear. I love that that that that chess match with a with a you know, old wiley buck. But um, it's such a passion for knowledge and and and and just try to just try to advance myself

my skills, be the best hunter. I can be learned about dear as much as I possibly can, and and I just don't think there's any better way to do that than than limited time on public land. It is the ultimate teacher. I mean, it will just it will. It will build you up and tear you down faster

than anything. Yeah, and it is weird. I mean, I'm you know, the last two years, I've spent probably almost as much time hunting with my daughters as I have just for myself, and I have been on private land with them, and it's like I find myself loving you know. I can go out and brush in a blind and that sucker is going to stay there, you know, Like I can I can set like I can really set the stage. But it actually makes me like really crave that show up at a new on a public land

somewhere and figure it out. And I kind of feel like personally, I've just been in like this this sort of weird spot with the meat eater gig and you know, having to film more and save some tags and stuff where I'm like, I haven't found that balance yet, and I feel like after this year, I'm like, I got I got this like lioned out, Like I know how I'm going to have to do this to still love it, because you can, you know how it is like you can slip into like a danger zone pretty quick when

it's like too much of your job or too much pressure. And I don't know about you, but for me, uh, if I start getting like if I start putting a lot of pressure on myself, like let's say, you know, I go to a couple of states and I don't feel a tag or you know, like I just don't have that hunt that like fulfills me, or I don't kill one at home, and I start getting towards the end of the year, I start really putting pressure on myself and that's when I will just flame out, like

I make bad decisions you're a spot on. I mean, I can totally relate to that. My last like banger year, I would say, was twenty nineteen, I think, and I killed uh. I think I killed three bucks and had

really good I mean just just saw. I felt like I felt like I saw a year I would shoot like I shoot almost every almost almost like every time I hit the ones, like it was crazy right, And it's been, I mean honestly every season since in the last three years has been have been a grind so ironically to your point, this year, I drew an Iowa tag, which obviously is you know, is like something everybody looks

forward to. We carve out a bunch of time and I had some buddies that long story short, actually had some access to some pretty good private ground in Iowa this year, which is which is never I mean, that has not happened before. So I was like, even though I love spending so much time in public land, I've been doing that so much the last you know, forever,

I was kind of like secretly like loving it. Like I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get to like there's gonna be food sources and there's gonna be like even food plots and I'm gonna get to set that, like this is gonna be awesome, like and and and I love the dynamic of that and of all, you know, year every year I always helped buddies plant food pots and and set some farms up and stuff for them that I don't I don't hunt, but I just enjoyed doing it and being out there and stuff like that.

So I mean I've got a knowledge base of it, but just not getting to enjoy it a lot myself. And the craziest thing man like actually and it was,

it was a phenomenal, like I it was. I broke it up into a couple of different segments of four day periods where I hunted on on the private ground in Iowa, and it actually caused me And it was only, like I said, a handful of days and I did love it, but it actually caused me to miss and and even just being on public land, like I just I just enjoy like where I wasn't hanging and hunting and doing my thing and scouting just constantly, like it wasn't so much of that, um so in a weird way,

like it was super fun to kind of try something different and something that was a little bit unique to my the way I've been hunting for the last, you know, so many years. But it was still it was a cool thing. So I'm kind of not necessarily in the same boat as you yet, but on the same track. I'm on same path as you. I feel like we're It's something I want to do. I want to continue to understand managing land and doing some more interesting things like that with private land. But I just gotta I

just gotta determine where that balance is for myself. That that buck he killed down there is freaking sweet man. It was a fun one, yeah, I was. It was such a weird thing, honestly, Like I don't know how much you want to get into it, but just like I don't know about you, but like there is you know, obviously an encounter can take anywhere from like multiple minutes anywhere to like seconds, right, and like I have internal

conversations with myself throughout that entire situation. So like with this book, I spotted him, I don't know, he was like sixty yards seventy yards away and some thick stuff kind of just bumping does and I was I could see was like his body and I was like, absolutely, that's a mature book, no doubt. Like he's a he's a monster. Like body wise, I couldn't really see his head. And I'm starting having this back and forth like okay,

should I call to him? You know? And I'm like asking myself and answering these questions internally, all I feel like we like we all do right. And I ended up calling to him a little it and pulling him pull. He starts coming my way, but it's still thick, and then finally kind of steps out into the opening a little bit and he's probably like fifty yards or so, and I can tell it's this it's and it's a deer that my buddy said had trail camera pictures up

for years. They called them the Big seven. It was just this, just this ancient, old, big, gnarly seven point and long story short, he he snort, wheezes and like just does the whole thing, and he's lit pearl and then just being awesome and and I'm like there's this big, deep ditch between the two of us, and I'm like, okay, I don't know. And I started just having these thoughts and I was like, man, it's like my Iowa tag

and I waited so long to have it. I know there's good deer around and there's some other stuff I can hunt. It's like I don't know it. And I'm just sitting there, like do I want to shoot this this ancient, big old gnarly buck. And I'm like, actually like having this debate in my head. And I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna I don't know if I want to shoot him. I don't know. Again, It's like I had my bow and I was like, man, and maybe if he crosses this ditch and like comes

up on on this other side. I mean it's like an eight foot deep ditch. I was like, if he crosses that and comes up my mind, I said, he's like he's like eight teen yards depending and he'd be right there. And so he starts kind of doing his thing, and he started he rubs a tree a little bit, and I can just see his frame, like this big old gnarly seven point frame just going on. And I

eventually I was like, I'm having this debate. Eventually, I'm like I asked myself and I just like everything stopped in my head and I just I just said, like dude, who do you think you are? Like, I'm like, I literally I almost audibly said it, Like I almost audibly

said it because I got so frustrated with myself. I'm like you, I said this, this big, ancient, mature dear six I mean six seven, eight years old and way over I mean he was way over five and just big and awesome, And I'm like, who do you think you are? Man? Like you're you're kidding me, Like you just publiclyam hunter, you know, from southwest Michigan. All of a sudden, you're in Iowa and this big, massive Bukistan in front of you, and you're debating if he's good

enough for you to shoot. I got I got almost mad at myself. I was like, I'm hammering this thing, and sure enough, he finally broke, came down this ditch, came out the other side, and you know, shot him at eighteen he ran forty and tipped over. I mean it was like and then finally to go ahead and get my hands on him and see what he actually was just being a freak kind of cool deer. I was like, I was so like, there was no negative feelings at all other than the fact that I was.

I was disappointed myself from being one of those, like I was kind of being a prick about it, right, Like I just I was so mad at myself. Yeah, that's really hard for me to relate to because when I see a buck like that, I don't have any Like I'm never like, um, should I should? I not? I'm always like, yeah, I want to kill that, And it's uncharacteristic for me to like it. I never usually have that feeling, and I had it. I was like,

what is wrong? Like I don't So anyway, I'm super happy that I got over my douch nous for about five minutes and I and I shocked this thing and it ended up happening the way it happened because I couldn't. I mean, I mean, and then I'm like sitting there thinking like, oh my gosh, like how many how many eight and ten points have you shot? Or will you shoot? You know, in your in your lifetime. It's like, man, I would never even see a deer like that again.

So yeah, super super pumped about it. It It was an awesome trip and I was really glad it all came together finally after it's been a grind. Dude, like you said, I mean, it has been a grind up to that point. So it was it was awesome to finally punch a tag. So let's talk about that. What's the worst slump you've ever had for white tails? You got one that sticks out one season? Uh? Yeah? Um, are there so many that you can't choose? Honestly? Kind of yeah, believe it

or not? Man Like I would probably say, and I mean I'm not even categorizing it necessarily in a from a standpoint of like filling a tag. Um, I would say probably this year, dude, likes like in recent memory, like don't get me wrong, Like I mean, I killed the great buck, and I when I'm super happy with that, and I've still got some time left and some things I'm gonna I'm gonna try to hunt in Illinois and of public, I don't know here that I've scouted a lot, but um, it has been like to even see a

like a buck, I would shoot her. And my so my goal just getting into into it, like whenever I'm on my trip, right, Like if I'm going on a trip, I'm like here's five days here, here's three days, three day, seven days on a trip somewhere. My my main goal most of the time is to shoot a good representation of that area. That like that's kind of my my my scale, my my measuring stick, and so um, you know, I know you hunt the Dakota is a lot I do too. Like South Dakota is one of my favorite

places in the world. And I've been going out there and hunting a you know, a few different areas of a larger region for years and years and years, and this was the first year I did not. And you can point to a million different things. The weather was crappy.

It was like eighty degrees four days in a row, and like there was and believe it or not, like when I was there in South Dakota, it was like there was three consecutive days where the wind speed did not get over seven miles an hour, which is I mean, I'm like, this is unbelievable. Like I just can't even wrapped my mind around it. And I did not. Long

story short, I was there seven days, six days. I was there six days, did not see a buck that I would shoot while hunting, And that had never happened to me in almost in a decade of doing that.

And um, and then even here in Illinois. Um, Like I said, I haven't spent a lot of time here in Illinois yet because I had that Iowa tag and I was wanting to dedicate most of my season to bat but and probably eight hunts nine hunts here and in Illinois in western Alina where I live, Um, I've yet to see I've yet to see a dear that that I would shoot. So it's it's been that's been really tough. So what do you what do you do?

Do you just stick to your guns and say it's still a buck, that's a good representation of the area, or do you ever just go you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna make my decision when he starts walking down the trail, or do you try to shoot a dough? Or what do you What do you do? How do you break that slamp? So I try? Yeah, with dose are always a question mark for me because I love shooting him so much and I love you know, So it's always it's with with a dough, I never really know.

I just kind of let them whatever's gonna happen in that home. I'm gonna let whatever happened in that moment appen because I just I love eating medicine and that's what we live off of like percent times. So um, I don't really know what does. But with Bucks, it's like I really I scout so much, um, like I know you do, like so many you know, so many of us and kind of this circle like we we

scout so so much. And I truly believe that is the secret to success, especially when you're on public land, that I I'm not gonna be hunting areas where they're I'm gonna be hunting areas where I know that they're there, or they're strong likelihood of a possibility are there there or at some point in the season whether they're they're or not, or whether they've been killed or not, there's good there's a good buck or bucks on this property. So I stick to that where it's a good representation

of that of whatever that property could yield. And then I have that mentality. But I think, again, what the what the public land education has really instilled in me is like it's not you know, I think there's something to be said for the fact during the rut of like okay, you've got your like like we talked about like rut circuits for bucks, right where they've got like this circuit of of like cruising that they'll do or chase or scouting those and locking those down, breeding those,

et cetera. But like, I think there's somebody said for a hunter to have that as well, where he's got like Okay, I'm gonna have these in this region or this section of this property. I've got my you know, however, many four or five, and I'm gonna just rotate around for the first week or two in November, and I'm gonna more than likely i'm gonna get an opportunity. Right Like,

there's I think there's something you said for that. I'm not quite wired that way, like I and that and hunting publicly and is instilled this in me, and it's just worked for me. Mobility is best. If it's again, I might throw a couple of sits, maybe a couple of days at at at a spot. Um But if it's not happening, then I'm I'm moving. I'm just I just gotta keep going and finding the freshest stuff I

possibly can. And I've been doing that. Um. So that is kind of my methodology, is maintain the thought process on a good representation of the of a good representation of that area and being mobile as I can to find that good representation of that area of that book. And I do. I do run some show cameras on public and and have some you know kind of I don't know if you can call it, you know, have

tabs on them. But like I I've got a little bit of okay, this this book has been you know, fairly consistent in this area, and this you know, I might run into them here or whatever. But and then obviously that that's kind of without hunting pressure, right, that's the that's always the gold That's always the golden rule as far as determining what you're gonna do. But um so that that's kind of that's kind of my mentality,

and I'm not worried. I think. The other thing about that about the standard thing, right is like what how I'm gonna lower or keep standards is um it's it's more about the experience that chase, the hunt and things like that than just like shooting. The absolute biggest thing for me, and it's a lot about meat. Man. Like I said, we we we really rely on venison. I love shooting dozing them. So I'm not worried about eating a buck tag because I'm gonna have dough, I'm gonna

shoot those, and I'm gonna have that too. So a good representation area for a book is kind of my is always it's my pretty steadfast rule for myself. So let's say you go out there in Illinois and you're like, I should be able to find one and you can't, Like it's just kicking your ass. It's eight, ten, twelve

sits in a row. Whatever, do you ever, you know, barring having some kind of sweet tag like an I would tag in your pocket, do you ever just like shake it up and go hunt someplace totally new, just go try something different and just because I I find myself some of the worst slumps I've had have been when I really focus on the big woods, like in Wisconsin. And but I like it. I like the challenge of it.

But I also like it because it's like, you know, you're not going to go there and target one sixties, you know what I mean. It's it's not like it's not like a slump in Iowa, you know, So you're like to have lower standards or to just to be like, I mean, one of the one of the like the slumps that I like sticks with me so bad because I think it was like somewhere in there, I have spending a lot of time over there in northern Wisconsin, and I was like, I got a dough tag and

I got a buck tag. I want to kill a dough when I want to kill a buck. And I could not get a deer to stick around in shooting range, doze bucks anything. And it took me like three weeks and I didn't hunt every day because I don't know, I don't live there, but like three weeks of getting my ass handed to me by just mature does in the in the big woods before I finally shot one.

And then like you know, I've I've had all kinds of streaky hunting in my life, but killing that one dough on public land there when I had just been getting smoked for three weeks was like such a boost for me, Like and you know, and we talked about this, we kind of like, you know, go kill dose, I go shoot them on a food plot or go do whatever. And I'm like, okay, like you're you're talking in about a deer that might be as mature as any buck you'd ever pick your bow up for and you're not.

You don't give them any credit whatsoever. And then you go into a situation like that and it's so like easy in the industry to sort of gloss over that fact, just be like, oh, just go fill the freezer just you know, like it's hard for you to go kill it two an a half yearld buck, like well where are you hunting? You know, like you've got to factor that into like if you're in a slump, like how hard should it be? Versus like how hard is it? Yeah?

And you I couldn't agree more. And I think when I said, you know, when I say things like good representation of that area, I mean it can that can vary even depending on a given county or a region of a state that you're in. I mean it might be based on what even public track you're on, and how difficult you know, the opportunities are that that that are there. I mean, yeah, you've got to be able

to adjust and shoot whatever's gonna make you happy. And I think the big thing is like even if I just like this year has been super super challenging just to find and see them. Um, you know, like I said, outside Iowa, Um where I just keep moving. I mean, that's that's the big thing. Is I just because I

don't know what else to do. I guess at the end of the day, is like I just I gotta keep the faith that I'm gonna find him eventually, and either the season is gonna end, I'm gonna run a time, or I'll catch up to him and that so I just I just that's I mean, it's without oversimplifying it, that's kind of how I approach it mentally. But it's I mean, there's a good lesson there, right because you've you've and I talked about this with Zach Farrenbell a lot.

Like Zach loves to just run him down on the ground, like that's his thing and he's really good at it, and he found his lane, and that's like he's just his style. And you know, a guy like you, guy like Andy's like Scott Scott, Scot Scout Scout, get mobile, get on him, get on the fresh sign. And I was I was muzzled or hunt with a buddy of mine in in southeastern Minnesota a little bit ago, and we were sitting there and had uh busted up. I

think he was probably a two year old. He was all busted up and he was he was walking out into this field, and then there was a bigger buck, probably like a ten whatever. I was gonna shoot either one of them if they got within range, and they would both walk down into this draw in this cornfield, and we were running out of light, and I looked at him, I'm like, should I belly crawl out here and see, you know, because if I got to the edge, I'm like, they're gonna be within range and there's gonna

be an opportunity. So whichever one is there, and like

he's like, yeah, make something happen. And in my head, I'm like, you always screw these up, like you've you've lost sight of them, even though I'm sitting there with a scoped gun, Like I haven't killed a deer with a gun and seven eight years, you know, Like, as I'm crawling across that chisel plog corn field and I've lost sight of both of these deer, I'm like focused on the smaller buck because he was the second one to go in something like I know better where he

is and I'm crawling up there, and you know, it's that situation where you're like I should be able to see him, it's a chisel plog cornfield and I can't freaking see them, and you crawl a little and peak more. And then I looked over in that bigger buck standing there like eight yards away looking at me because he swung around and blew out of there, and you know, it was super fun. But I told my buddy on the way back, I'm like, my lane is just figure out where do you like to walk and wait for them?

Because when I do this ship like you know, you know how it is like sometimes you kill them sneaking up on them, and you know, you go out and spot stock whatever. But for the most part, when you when you get enough years behind you in the rearview mirror, you're like, I know what I have to do to break this slump, Like I know what I have to

do to fill this tag. And man, it's it's fun to kind of try the new stuff, but when you have things like that, you're just like I was like, just so reminded of so many times I've tried something like that and it just never works. I've I've found myself as time has gone on, more and more especially hunting more and more public land with vary with variations of pressure. Um, hunting from the ground more. I'm doing it a lot more. But I totally agree with the

with the stock thing. I just it's patience For me, man, I really struggle being patient enough. Um, and I just I think it's a combination of uh, wanting to make it happen really bad, not being um okay with the fact that if it doesn't happen, or or being okay with myself if I screw it up. I think there's variations of that and just not doing not having having

enough experience doing it and enough right. So, Uh, there's been times where I've slipped in on bucks, you know, where they're locked down with the dough or something that's you know, varying circumstances that just have them distracted. But like in terms of like buck you know, just feeding, or like in terms of them just cruising and trying to cut them off and get in front of them or do whatever. I'm right there with you, man, I have struggled great like it is not it has not

gone well like anytime. I mean, it's just like oly Cow and Um, I respect it greatly. I think it's I think it's an incredible skill and it's something that I think I wish I was better at and I would like to eventually maybe get better at. But like I'm with you, like I'm perfectly content funding off the ground,

being in the right spot, in the right situation. But it's it's kind of more of like a how can I identify or find my best ambush point to get to cut him off, get in front of the intercepting whatever it might be. Um, but yeah, the little stalking in on him is it's it's a different thing, man, different thing. I honestly think impatience probably saves more bucks

than anything. I mean, it is so and this is you know, this is why kind of why I wanted to do this this episode with you is you know, you start out the season, you've got X amount of tags, whether you got one at home or fifteen on the road or whatever, and you're like, this is my goal here, that's my goal there. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, and then the real world hits and you go, okay, I have to kind of have to adapt to this

stuff and start figuring it out. But when you start getting in that desperation mode, that's when you're like I'm not going to do what I'm great at or i'm getting good at, and I'm gonna go try this new thing and you start blowing deer out and it starts to spiral and you just like, for me, I feel like I get like really streaky if I'm on a bad streak, Like I make shitty decisions and it just gets worse and I literally have to like start over somehow,

you know. And you know how it is like sometimes you go on a tear and it's like you're just in the zone and you knock out like three states in her own and you're like this, I'm I'm king of the world, and it's always gonna level off. I mean, I know, Uh, you're a huge baseball fan, right, yep? Did you watch the uh the Nolan Ryan documentary on Netflix?

How badasses that, right? I mean, I you know, I grew up loving baseball and you know, paying attention to it and whatever, But I had no concept of how dominant he was. Unreal, unreal. It's any anybody, even if you're not really interested in sports, it's it's pretty freaking incredible.

But you watch Nolan Ryan's career and you know, all time most strikeouts out of any picture of I mean, like his stats, like his records are freaking bananas, and you know, he starts out and he's getting his ass handed to him, and he's a reliever of the first couple of years, and then he goes through these stages where he's like so unbelievably dominant that the best hitters

of the time can't can't touch him. And then he had times where he was getting shelled and people are like Nolan Ryan's passed his prime, like it's oh, and then he'd come back and figure something out. And I look at that and I go, jeez, if you're out there and you've been white till hunting five years or ten years, you know, or you know a lot of people who really hit a slump or at that stage where they go, I kind of got the little Bucks and the does figured out, but I want that Pope

and young Buck and they cannot make it happen. Like you gotta think about the most talented professional athletes in the world at their craft that they've devoted everything to and they get paid crazy money for have you like seasons where they suck Like that's crazy. It's the reality of it. And I think part of it too, is just maintaining the ment like that that mentality, that positivity.

It's not getting not you know, not second guessing what you know, the foundational like rules or whatever whatever it is, you're talking bow hunting, deer hunting, baseball, whatever it might be, but just maintaining that positive outlook and mentality that I know what I'm doing. I know I need to make some adjustments, but I need to stay the course and just stay consistently and stay at it, you know, and not give up. And and I think it's all about

that balance point right where I'm with. I'm like you, where you go into these slumps, you're going to these hards. It's really easy for me to push really hard in moments like that where it's like I'm just gonna I'm gonna force this situation into a positive outcome, and that just rarely ever happens, because then what happens is you know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're finally hanging this set up and it's like, okay,

I'm not even getting where I want to be. And I just dropped a climbing stick and I just clanked off the other one. And you get up and you finally get it. You got you get your saddle platform hunger, you're staying hung or whatever, and you're like this and it's the wind switches like you know, with an hour left, and you're like, okay, this is this is just perfect to see, you know, and then all of a sudden you look up in the deers coming in, You walk

to Tony yards you shoot him. Like that's I mean, that's how it happens a lot of times. And it's like, why do I do this to myself where I'm just so mentally just just grind, grinding and grinding almost to the point of like I mean, like you said earlier, but making it not fun and over forcing it instead of just like and again I think it's just riding the wave because you can't just you can't just totally, like, in my opinion, you can't just totally sit back and

just oh, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. No, I mean, you have to buckle down in the right times and really and really be serious and stay focused. But you can't just tour the over where you're trying to like steer the ship so intensely that you just blow up in here. You know, you're just you're hurting yourself. And I definitely consistently every year get to a point where I do that. I just over I end up hurting myself and just totally get like, you know, way intense

and every paying. A lot of times it's my wife for a couple of buddies or whatever, and they'll be like what are you doing? Like stop, like you're just you're you're not fun to be around. You're not going to talk to you about this thing. And it's like you just kind of gotta have that gut check or that reality check of like, man, you know what you're doing. Just stay the course and kind of kind of ride

the way. But I think fact what you're saying about, like Nolan Ryan and just all of that, I think so much of that comes back to perspective and mental state of just being confident in your ability, yes, but also just staying super positive and not letting the moments or the mishaps or anything like that be bigger than the overall like mission and goal at hand of like what you're actually doing out there. Do you ever do

you ever just take some time off? I mean, do you, because when I get to that stage where nobody wants to be around me, which I hit it just about every Deer season two, I'm in it right now, bad bad. Uh. Do you ever just take time off and do something else? Yeah? Um, yes, and no, that's usually when I will. I don't know kind of kind of I should say. So when I get into those moments and those attitudes like that, A

lot of times I'll go to a spot. Um, either I haven't scouted very much, I haven't hunted very much, or maybe I haven't even like boots on the ground scouted or been to physically at all, and I'll just go and just learn something new. I'll just like, I have no idea what's here. I don't have no experiences here, I have nothing I can really, I'm just gonna try and make like take my mind off of the fact of actually like killing a deer, and I want to go see if I can find something and do that.

And it's like with no pressure, right, It's like I've never I've never been to this piece of public, I've never been over here. I just want to go and scout and find sign and try to, like, even even if it's something like I've done it a couple of times in the past, UM, and maybe actually we're talking about this, I'm thinking maybe I should need to be doing this now, like right, maybe I need maybe I want to hang this up and go go go scout

something else. But um is even filing something away for future seasons, Like it might be like now we're kind of past the rut, right, so it's like you kind of look and maybe I'm finding a bunch of rut sign where there's just this whole area is torn up with rubs and maybe even there's some scrapes and stuff like that, and there's you know, it looks like maybe there's dope betting up here or whatever it might be. And I'm like, holy cow, I need to like wog

this away for next year or something. I mean, I've found distracting myself from the fact that I haven't filled the tag or I haven't killed a book or whatever, um this year by doing stuff like that where it's still I feel like it's still benefiting or valuable to my hunting. Um, I'm still like spending quality time doing something productive. But maybe it's maybe it is like you said, there's in moments in situations like that. At least for me personally, I don't feel any pressure in that moment.

I'm just trying to gather information, have fun out there doing it, and you know, it's it's not really any time spent, you know, really focused on the intensity of filling a tag. Yeah, I think, you know, for me, I'm lucky because I have some other stuff I like to do in the woods, you know, I do a lot of pheasant hunting and whatever else, you know, and I I find a similar kind of like a little bit of a release on the pressure of velve to just be like, I'm not gonna go deer hunting this weekend.

I'm gonna go pheasant hunting. And you always find something out there that's interesting or you just like it just sort of takes the edge off a little bit. And you know, there's something we don't really talk about in the hunting industry hardly ever. We always kind of paint this rosy picture of this stuff, right like, oh, it's the best thing ever and it's so fun, I can't wait,

and I live for it and blah blah blah. Except when you're actually hunting a lot, a lot of it sucks a lot of it's really stressful, and a lot of it's just not that much fun sometimes, And you know, you're talking about dropping stuff out of a tree and

just like having a bad attitude or whatever. When we were filming one week in November this year, I started the first couple of days on public land in southwestern Minnesota, and it was rough and we had one sit where we went in and you know, you've got a cameraman with you, and we were dropping, Like I got up into the tree, I dropped my grunt tube, I dropped my phone, so I went back down and got him. As I'm down there, the GoPro lands on my head

that he dropped, so I picked that up. I go back up there, I dropped my grunt tube down again. I'm like, I'm not gonna need it anyway because I'm not gonna see a freaking buck. And then he's like talking and we're in this little tree because there aren't that many trees there, and he like makes this gesture and knocks my arrow off my rest under the ground, and it's just pure yard sale down there, and I'm just like and that that was the city where we had I had scouted this river bottom spot and it

looked freaking banging. In fact, I pheasant hunted it recently and jumped two good bucks out of there, so I know, I was like, I know, I was in the neighborhood. I just didn't have the right spot or time or whatever. But we walked in there, and two days before I've been there, there's one banging trail that follows the river edge, you know, kind of parallels it and cuts the bends off, you know, just like dreamy rut stuff. You got the

water behind just so the winds perfect, all that stuff. Yeah, dude, it's just like my favorite, like on paper, that's like my river bottom stuff like that. I love it. But we get in there and I like walk up to the tree to start hanging our set, and I look over and there's a dead buckland on the trail, you know, and you're just like, somebody gut shot it between you know,

the two days before when I had scouted in. Now it was super fresh and it's laying dead in the middle of the trail we're hunting, and you're just like, what are the freaking odds? And you know, and then then we climb up and I drop everything I own onto the ground and my cameraman drops all of his ship.

You're just like, sometimes, you know, in that situation, we can't just bow out and go chase peasants, although I wanted to, But sometimes you're just like you got some bad mojo, man, and you just kind of you gotta

back out and do something else. Yeah. Well, plus and you're such a dog freak, and yeah, I feel like you're now you're you're entering a point where you're deer hunting just to get you the pheasants season and then you can you know what, I'll tell you what So, because you mentioned this early when you said you're not wired to just like you gotta find new stuff and you gotta hunt new ground. I'm I'm the same way. Like I'm not. I'm jealous of people who like can

have one spot and just like that's their season. They're like, you know, target box or whatever. Like I just can't. It doesn't do anything for me. And I figured this out. I think I got lucky when I was like in college and I was fishing a bunch of tournaments and I burned myself to the ground. I was like, I hate fishing now too far. I went too far and I needed something else. So then I was like I

got a freaking bull hunt. Like I got to get into a tree and decompress because I'm sick of you know, driving all over and haul on the boat and all that bus. And what it really taught me was like if I go too hard in the paint with anything, and that's like my nature, I need the backup stuff. And so the dog thing, that's just like for me,

that's just like pure fun. Like I just you know, there's not the trophy bs and there's not like this this stuff that we have going on with the white tail world, and it's like you just gotta find and like if if you're hitting a spot with your deer hunting, you're like, I don't like this right now, Like I don't want to do it. I want to do something else. Man, you probably need some kind of backup outlet somewhere. So

so you're telling me you don't. You don't measure your pheasants spurs and and and the wingspan and compare them to your buddies. You shoot big your peasants. No, I mean, and you know we're such idiots, right, Like I get I think one of the worst things that happened to us is this trophy hunting craze. I I just look at it. I'm like, there's so much bad that comes

with it. But it's like it's a dumb thing to bitch about a because I've been a part of it for a long time, so it makes me a huge hypocrite. But be it's not going away, Like it's just gonna be a part of us no matter what. And so like the pheasant thing, yeah there's no trophy pheasants. But if you're out here hunt with three your buddies and you kill more birds than they do, like you're still gonna talk shit at the end of the night, you know.

And I was like, I sometimes fantasize about a world where deer just don't have antlers, where all we can hunt are just antler less dear they all are the same, but we'd still have of like heaviest dough contests, and you know what I mean, Like we would never get away from like there was always be trophies in there somehow, I know because I've thought about the same So like I thought, dude, I've had this thought so many times, So exactly what we're talking about like in a tree

thinking and it's just like what it right? And I'm like sitting there thinking to myself, I'm like, what if what if like Bucks were actually dough like like had they like this the maybe like the um what like the societal impact like implications of like what Bucks are?

What if they? What if Dose and Bucks were flip flopped? Right, So it's like what if does all of a sudden like oh my gosh, she's got the longest ears and like and then like I'm going through this thing and like what if dose like had that impact that Bucks have like in our in our industry. But and then I found myself thinking exactly what you just said. It's like, wait a second, you just totally like ruined it because you're already thinking of ways to prioritize one dough over

another dough. And it's like no, man, like that's not not I mean it is, man, It is such a I hate it and dude, I don't know. I mean the social media thing, dude, it's I know, it's part of what we do and we have to do it for our jobs and and it's and there's definitely positives to it and like ways to connect and interact as a community. But I really hate social media, you know, I do too, so much. But it's not like, you know, I would guess a lot of people who listen to

this podcast probably didn't. They probably weren't like at the age where they were like hardcore white h hunters reading magazines fifteen years ago, you know, twenty years ago. And I remember the same ship, you know, when I was an editor at Peterson's Bow Hunting, and even before that, when like real Tree, you know, vhs and DVDs are coming, like it was, it was the same stuff. It was

just a different medium. And now it's it's weird now because it's like we're so exposed to it, we're so addicted to our phones, and so we're like we're like not even like consciously checking into this stuff and exposing ourselves to this stuff that we don't really care about and actually pisces us off, which is a whole part of the plan to get us to look at it more.

And it's just it's rough, man, And I honestly think, you know, I I you know, talk about sitting in your trees and fantasizing I had when I was or when I was muzzled or hunting. Earlier this year, I was like, man, what would be really cool is if every trophy photo, so you know, whoever you are, you're posing with that white tail buck or that big bull Elk, if there was like a breakdown on what it cost,

because you know, because I see this. I saw this post from this this hunt that happened out on the Deserret in Utah for Elk, and I you know how it is. I know people, that's that's Rogan's place, that's you know, cam hunts there or whatever. And I don't know what they cost now, but a few years ago that was an eighteen dollar just tag. I'm sure it's more now more than that. Yeah, I'm you know, I'm

sure it's bucks. And you you know how this is because you're kind of an insider like I am, where you see this stuff and you know, and you go, man, and I don't want to knock that, like if people want to go do that whatever, I don't give a ship. But if it would change how everyone felt, if you were like, you know, here's a picture of this great book I killed. Here's my leases. Ten thousand dollars a year, and I spent this and this and this, and it

was like a breakdown. I think a lot of people would look at this over and over and go, Okay, there's like a really common theme with most of these big, big animals I'm seeing, and there's a lot of money invested in them, a lot of money, and so it would I think it would kind of level us off a little bit. You'd go, like, you know, I don't I don't get jealous of Jeff Bezos, you know, buying foot yachts, Like that's such a different world from where

I live in Like it doesn't affect me. I don't care, you know what I mean, Like I'm not gonna get a red assid about a guy who starts to come any like that and gets billion dollars and starts a space company, Like I don't give a shure. But like on a smaller scale, you look at some of the money involved in some of this stuff and it's like it's like it's not that level, it's not Amazon owner level, but it's like so far beyond what most people I

think probably realize. And you know, you look, especially some of the Western stuff, you're just like, yes, you know that Elk has a price on his head, like if you knew that, you wouldn't be like you'd be like, Okay, this is a different world from me. Well, and I even think from a self reflection standpoint, like if you actually you know, because I hate seeing it, man, Like it's like uh and we all see it all the

time too. And I really get on my buddy, like personal friends, I really get on their case if they do this because I just it really rubs me the wrong way. And it was like kind of goes back to what I said earlier about the Io bucket shot, where I was kind of like, who the heck do

you think? You know? I was like yelling at myself, and it was like it's like when you know, the typical, prototypical like trophy photos post goes up on social media and it always starts with well is not the biggest buck in the woods or oh I know he's not going to score a lot or what Like I'm like, dude, no, to heck with that. Man. It's like, if you pull the trigger on that thing, be happy, be proud, be

own it. You made a successful hunt, you had it, you made a successful shot recovery, you made it happen, You filled the free like those are the positive, so far outweigh anything that somebody else, somebody else who has no idea, or some keyboard warrior that has an opinion about what your dear scored or how old it was, Like,

it's just it just drives me absolutely insane. And I think what you're talking about there would actually if you if if somebody actually sat down and like, okay, how much do I have invested in this dear and then they listed out the cost. I think the pride and that deer all of a sudden would go way up

where they're like, oh, holy cow that you know. I hope my wife never sees this, but wow, like this is you know, this is like a you know, it's like you know, hundreds, if not thousands of dollars that you've got banked into this thing, and it's like, all of a sudden, it's gonna matter a lot more to you. So I think I love that. I don't know if we need to start our own social media platform where I'll let you we on that, I'll I'll let you figure that out. I can tell you there maybe a

lot of ways my career goes. It's not going to be starting a social media channel. No, that's not gonna happen. It'll go the other way if anything. But yeah, I mean, I think it's I think it's important to just kind of look at this stuff and be honest about this stuff.

And I think it's I think it's important to recognize it, like that's a component of what we have going on, and it it kind of feeds into the theme of this where it's like, you know, if you feel like you're out there getting your ass kicked and everybody else isn't, you're wrong, Like you're just you're just wrong. I mean, and you you and I well know people who are like, you know, they get it done. Like some of the some of the hunters I respect the most out of anyone,

still have just clunker seasons. I wanted to ask you this earlier, but I forgot. I'm gonna ask you now. I think so many people they hit a real slump at some point in the kind of the beginning of their white tail career somewhere, you know, it might be the first deer, or a lot of times it's that real big step up from okay bucks to something they're like, I want to show this off, Like did you. Did you hit those in stages when you started out, or did you have one where you're like, I cannot bust

through this one. I just can't. Did I did? I? Yeah, I bow hunted for five years before I killed the deer with the ball. So started in Michigan. You completely start archery hunting when you were twelve, and I was I think it was I guess six. I was sixteen when I shot my first buck with the ball, so I mean missed and I was not picking like it was. You know, I grew up. I grew up. I grew up like four legs, brown hair, and a white tail letter fly. You know that's like that's kind of where

I grew up in. So I mean, I, uh no, manland back backstropped. I don't know what think two bucks didn't find them completely? You know with missed, I can't even tell you how many does um Where I was just I could not control the emotion, like I was so amped up on every single thing before it finally happened,

and I never will forget it. It was a dough coming in at last light and finally I'm saying, like you have, like you have to kill this thing, like you can't let this go on forever, right, And and I spined her and she was like getting trying to you know, it was just a nightmare and ended up putting the finishing shot. So like, yeah, I mean every and and thankfully it got significantly better after that. But um, you know you learn those you know, you learn those

those those things to calm yourself down. But yeah, I mean I was I was just like anybody else. I mean, I was absolutely enamored, just consuming as much hunting content as I possibly could, the magazine, the vhs as the the DVDs, everything like that from a very early age. And I said, these people like shooting these just you know, unbelievable bucks and like just and consistently killing deer, and I just couldn't figure out why I couldn't hit that.

And it was eventually what it kind of came to came to me after I finally like, okay, I killed my first one. It's like you just can't you can't let the moment be bigger than than you were that you know that situation. You've got to control yourself within that situation to be able to effectively can execute a shot. And yeah, so talk about slump. Yeah, I mean I was. I was in my I could drive before I actually finally killed something with the boat. Dude, I'm right there

with you. I started out at twelve to Minnesota's minimum age was twelve, and I killed my first year, which was a button buck, uh like four days before the season ended when I was fifteen, So I essentially had four full seasons of hunting in before I killed a buck fawn that was the unluckiest deer in the woods.

I I sprayed and prayed at that buck because he busted me drawn on him and he was trotting through and I just shot and I shot him through the liver and was like I will never forget that, dear. You know, I couldn't hear him coming because there was a bunch of fresh snow on the ground. And I looked down and he was right below me, and I was like, holy sh it, there's a deer here. And I drew and he busted me, and I remember thinking like every time, like every freaking time you drop, they

see you. But you know, he was dumb, and it just when that arrow went through him and he ran off and I could see blood in the snow. I was like, oh my god, like I think I'm actually gonna get one, and you know I had done. So that year was was the first full year I got permission to hunt this farm that I still hunt to this day. And when I walked into that farm, like seeing a buck for me at that time was like whoa, Like this is holy shit. And I walked into that,

I walked in down this hayfield. I'm like, I'm gonna go carry a stand in because that's all I did. I had one stand, carried it in, put it up, take it down, and put it up, take it down. And I walked in there and I jumped a little year and a half old buck. And I remember like, I am on a spot now, like I am, I am on a farm that has these deer. And I started hunting that place every night. My mom would drive me out there and drop me off and I'd go.

I'd walk into the spot, this looks good at hang a stand, and I would hunt it till I burned it right to the freaking ground. And then I keep going through the woods and I can't I can't remember exactly, but I think I missed like eleven deer that season.

I remember I had a week when I missed three and it was all it was all little Bucks, it was all like you know, spikes Forky's basket six whatever, And I was just like I'd call my dad because my dad works second shift at IBM, and he'd be like, had tonight go and be like, missed another four key shot at him three times and then like I just remember my dad being like like, I guess just keep going out there, like he was odd of advice, like I I'm sure he was like I think I got

a paternity test this kid, because this kid's ship he can't do it. And I mean, so when you talk about that, you know it takes you. Took you roughly the same amount of time. You're talking full seasons of hunting multiple and not killing a deer. And I don't know about you, but when I it took me. I was eighteen when I killed my first book, and then I killed one every year, actually probably every year since then. I don't think I've had a year where I didn't.

But you know, I got to that point where I was like, okay, this the basket recks are like eventually throughout the season, one of those dudes is gonna die And when I when I started killing some two and a half year olds and I'm like, um, you know what, it's time to get some chest hair and like go

go be a real man out there. That was when the real big second slump of my life hit where I was like I was not ready for it, Like I'm like I need to kill something that's three and a half year old, you know, like you're just whatever whatever, you know that on up And I was right back to that stage where I'm like I can't hit them right, can't hit them at all. I get an opportunity to fall apart, and it's so this stuff is like you

don't you don't get over it. Like I mean, you get over it to some extent, but there's situations like you lose the farm and you gotta start over, or you go try that public land hunt you put yourself in a different situation, or you move, you know, to the up from southern Michigan and now you're like, this ain't the same world I grew up in, and now you have to start over and that pressure comes in and that stress and man, that slump is on you

before you know it, and it sucks. I think it's just again perspective and mentality you because I truly I agree with you, and I truly believe everybody, if they're being honest with themselves and others, is going to go through that regardless of what their goals are, regardless of where they're hunting, regardless of what's happening, they're gonna find that slump. They're going to hit that. It's just it's

just gonna happen if you do it long enough. And that's where it's like, I think, if if people can't understand that, or if they're being judgmental or ridiculing somebody as they haven't shot a buck yet or they haven't filled a tag this year or whatever, especially when they're kind of in the public view of the of the industry of like you know, they're they're creating some type of content or whatever, and it's like, you know, they

get accustomed to this, this consistency. It's like if if they can't understand or respect the slump, if you will, they just haven't been doing it long enough, or they're just they're just being a jerk on on on social media. It's like it's like it's just I mean, because it's going to happen to them if it or if they're not even experiencing it right now. So yeah, it's it's it's just the reality of it. It's just something that we have to face. I think it's an incredibly learned

a good learning tool for us. I mean, I know that I as much fun as the great years are where you're filling tags every time you go and you know, you you hunt ten days and you fill three or four tags and it's like unbelievable. As fun and wonderful as that is, I learn way more from dear you know, the habitat how dear using the terrain, finding new spot, um, what you're doing within a certain you know, based on certain conditions or whatever. From those hard slump years where

it's just a constant, grinding battle. I learned way more from those years than I do from the years where I feel a bunch of tags. That doesn't mean I don't want to you where I feel a bunch of tags, I'm not saying that, but reflecting back on it and even looking at it and just trying to keep that positive mindset where it's like, hey, this isn't all for nothing. Here where I'm I'm sharper than the sharper than the iron, right, I'm trying. I'm making myself better because I'm struggling through

this and there's something said for that. Yeah, I think another way to do this too, if you if you find yourself out there, especially you know, maybe not if you're a beginner, but if you're if you're at one of those stages where you're like, I'm I need to level up on this somehow. I'm you know, this caliber buck or whatever. I want five dollars in the freezer at the end of the year instead of one, and you hit, you know, like you hit the wall with it.

One of the things that I found totally by accident that really helps me sort of contextualize those moments is like taking my daughter's or taken like I take a lot of kids out or newbies turkey hunting, and man, you take it for granted, what you know, like when you when you walk out into the woods and you're scouting, you have a hell of a lot to draw on and you go, Okay, I see this, I've been here, I've done this like kind of you know, like I've been here, done this, like I know, I know how

to get myself through this, but when you have to think about bringing somebody else through it, and its like man, it for me personally, it forces me to like I can't there's no like errors in my setup, like where do you put this blind? How do you brush it in? Like how the how's the sun gonna come in? Where's it gonna approach? Or you know, taking my daughter's deer hunting, like, man, I can't have a squeaky chair. I can't have I

can't have mistakes because we're gonna make mistakes. So like if I allow something sloppy or if I if I'm like this is good enough, there's no way it's gonna bite us in the ass. And sometimes for me, just taking somebody else who doesn't know what they're doing is like it's it kind of just like recalibrates me and I go, Okay, like this is I needed to see this and to go through this and like understand, I don't have it this bad, this pity party that I've

been having because I can't kill big Bucks. Times to freaking time to shut it down and move on, you know, yeah, exactly, Yeah, And it teaches me, like I always like doing that from that perspective to whether it be turkey hunter or even deer hunting, what it teaches me about public a lot is like whether I'm taking a youth or even even a buddy that doesn't hunt public a lot or hasn't like gone like, doesn't like doesn't you scouting as

a as a major foundation of their hunting style? Yeah, and and and all of a sudden, like that question why comes up right where it's like, hey, why, like why are you looking at this? Or why did you see this away? Why did we there was this great scraper rub and we kind of just walked right by it, like why did that happen? Like? And I'm like, because I take it like you. It's like you kind of

bet you're just like you. You're either filing it away like subconsciously or like you kind of process it subconsciously

and just kind of go right and buy it. And it's actually helped me kind of frame of like, Okay, these are important things and they are they do matter in certain situations and explaining it to somebody else or um, you know, and even it's caused me to even sharpen up on things that maybe I'll glaze over, or it might even lead to something really important or pivotal in a given spot that otherwise I just kind of glazed over. And yeah, having that reset moment where you're you're really

paying attention to every detail and not missing that small stuff. Again, I've I've gone through those similar experiences and it it turned in very valuable when you're talking about looking at through the eyes of somebody else that maybe doesn't do it every day, And I think, I think the important lesson there, you know, if you're if you're on just a cold streak out there is there are just like so many different ways to address this, and you know, the industry sort of it doesn't it does a really

good job of elevating people who sell that terminator mindset right like, this is all I do, that's all I care about, the all I think about White Tail seven. I got divorced over it, blah blah blah. And you know, there are you and I both know people who are actually like that. They're pretty freaking rare, and usually they're assholes in my opinion just personally they kind of seem to be. But that's not the way for most people

to do this and enjoy it. Like, if you're if you're out there and you're struggling a little bit, finding a way to have more fun in the woods is way better than just being like I have to be so you know, dialed in and so like I gotta be scouting constantly every day, and I gotta be running

five thousand trail cameras, I gotta be doing this. Like that might be the answer for like a very very small percentage of hunters out there, but I think for most people it's actually like that would hurt them a lot, like this image that we sell to them. Man, you you you said it a million times, and I totally agree with you. I've always agreed with this mindset. No one cares what you shoot. At the end of the day, no one, No one cares. So do you want to

be that guy? Do you want to be that guy with that mentality of like, oh, you know, I just I don't I don't have time for a girlfriend or a wife, and I don't have time for kids because I'm out there. Because all that's gonna end up doing is you're gonna be eighty years old in a dusty house with big deer mounts around you, which okay, cool,

but you're by yourself, and like that's it? Like that is that really what you want to Like you're hunting legacy whatever that might be to be I mean, or is it like you know, deer camp with buddies and learning and spending time out there and doing like you said, it's like going on a pheasant hunt, going on a deer turkey And I'm just like, you're just out there having a great time and fill in your freezer and

having fun. Like I mean, it's and again, everybody can hunt their own hunt and have their own definition of what successes and in the in the deer woods. But I don't know, man, I just have never understood like I just I don't know that the macho nous of that of like I just got to kill the biggest and best and and and and and everything be damned where I'm just you know, I'll throw everything else to the wayside and lose my job and you know, get divorced.

And I'm just like at the end of the day, like what do you what do you say, like rabbitsle banlers, that's what we're We're not here in childhood cancer here, you know, I got into the couple that owns the motel I stay at when I hunt in southwestern Wisconsin sometimes. Her husband is a duck guide down there on the Mississippi River. And when I was down there muzzleloader hunt

and they were kind of wrapping up. It was his last couple hunts whatever, and I was talking to the wife and she was telling me how they had had some people in. I don't I thought. She said they came up from Texas or somewhere. They keep traveled somewhere, and she said when they were checking into the motel, they were talking about how they always do guided hunts for ducks and they always know more than the guides.

And she was like, they were like, you know, we we know how to do this, we know what a decoy and call better. And I was like, I was like, well, hey, if that was true, you wouldn't be hiring guides everywhere and and be you're you're like puffing your chest out because you're murdering birds, Like are we are? We really like that into it that we have to like elevate, you know what I mean? And I get it, like

it's a lifestyle, it's fun. But I just look at that and I go man, you're kind of delusional here like this, you should be out there because it's badass to work those mallards in and watch them circle and it's sure is fun to shoot him out of the sky, but it's not like, you know, we're not like working on AI here. We're not gonna we're not gonna save the world, you know, like we're taking these little former dinosaurs with tiny little brains who see you know, who

they think are their buddies. They're just plastic pieces of ship in the water and they're like, hey, I'm gonna go down there, and all of a sudden, these pricks jump out of a boat and shoot them, you know

what I mean. Like yeah, and well, and to your point, man, like I think there's something to be said there for like related to the slump thing, like if you're just I mean, if you're just so if you're just running into the brick wall so hard like this year or whatever, and you're just in this slump, like that's a really great point of perspective, is don't make them smarter than they are or or like they've got some crystal ball and they're all knowing and don't get me wrong, incredible

instincts and they're they're intelligent, and they're just like unbelievably good at surviving in their element. But they have to eat, they have to sleep, they have to have water, like if you just think even in the realm of that, like you, you and I get asked all the time, and you know, I've had this conversation a lot about like if I'm on a trip somewhere I'm traveling, how do I find a big buck or like, how do

I find that mature dear? And it's like, well, step one is find dear, like identify where deer are congregating for whatever reason, and then that's you understand that because nine times out of ten, you know or out of the rud it doesn't matter, like forget the phase like of whatever you know, prereadpost or whatever it is early season,

late season, doesn't matter. If you find dear, you're you're you're like halfway there now now, depending on what your goals are for size and quality and age or whatever, and that all that will obviously change the spectrum completely. But finding dear could be the slot buster. You need is understanding where you're at and figuring out, Okay, I just need to go see deer. I need to find the freshest sign and understand why these deer are here

and then go from there. Yeah, there's dude, there's such a good a good point. I want to break down in that because when you when we say learn like learn to find deer first, like learned, learned how to locate them, I think most people would listen to that and go, well, I know I'm around deer. There's rubs

and scrapes and blah blah blah. It's like, no, no, no, no no, can you walk in there and set up and have a bunch of deer walk past you and bow range because you there's a there's a big difference there, you know. And this is so I talked about this all the time, but it's like it becomes so real when you elk hunt, when you when you go to that over the counter you did in Colorado and you're like, now I have this huge landscape and I need to get around them, and they're a low density animal and

they're gonna be concentrated in a few spots. You just realize how worthless anything but the freshest sign actually is. And even then are they still there? Like and you know, we don't. We don't think about white tails that way because we're like, oh, white tails live here, and it's like, man, you probably don't own a whole section, right, Like you're probably not hunting that buck's entire home range or those deers like they might not live there or you might

push them out real fast. Like, so when we say get on dear, it's not just like don't look around and be like, well, there's deer tracks in the mud, there's a rub over there, like okay, can you can you get an actual live dear to walk by you consistently? That's a big difference, huge, huge, and it can teach you so much about how they again you work you and then work that back right, so it's like that happens and then start asking like why is that dear there?

Why are they moving in this like from this direction

to this direction? And are they browsing as they go or they work like they're on like a destination where they're just kind of marching through or what what's their behavior where they and then they then you and then it's like okay, you take it, look at it from like a map perspective, really get on your scouting and then you start breaking down okay, like what if I move or or just physically boots on the ground scouting like you might have those deer come through, it might

not be a deer you shoot, or maybe they're too far away or whatever, and then you start like working that back and trying to figure it out. Like to me, like that is how you a uncomplicate the situation of finding like a good buck or or something you want to shoot and be breaking yourself out of the slump. It's like just moving into that spot where Okay, I'm

around deer. Now this isn't this isn't the spot, but I found the area and now I find need to find the spot within the spot, right, And it's like once you can start breaking it down that way, I mean to me, like I think that's you get you know, don't get all Mark Kenyon on it or like you're where you're charting numbers and like Parl, I'm just like, dude, we're uh. I was texted him the other day that was just like are you doing what are you doing? And He's just like, oh, I'm figuring this out. I'm

figuring this out. Like okay, man, like you do your money and I'm just like loving it. And but anyway, like so we don't really to you know, and there well we could actually have a whole entire podcast about what's going on with Mark, but but we uh. But but finding that spot within the spot, working that back, like to me, those that's the kind of stuff that

breaks them up. Like that's the stuff that you can you can then again, you're not forcefully trying to make something happen, but you're taking steps to work with the deer, right intend it's not trying to like ram your way into them. I think I think that can work. Yeah, you're you're not going through the motions, you're actually still trying to figure something out. Yeah for sure. Yeah, absolutely,

that's it's so important, buddy. We are out of time. Uh, people can find your writing, you know, meat eat or slash Wire to hunt you. You're doing a bunch of articles for us. There. What else are you doing out there? Oh? I guess you can follow Instagram and Facebook. I don't post very much, but I'm trying to trying to. But you posted the picture of that big Iowa buck. I did. It was it was a little late, but I did. I did finally get something up there. I gotta do it. Yeah, yeah,

I gotta do it. So yeah, I mean just Alex skills from me and you don't add Alex skills from Facebook, Instagram. And then like you said, I write, write a bunch for for me to hear you guys over there and love doing that. So that's the best place to find find the stuff. Awesome. Well, I appreciate it, buddy. Good luck with that baby that's coming up here. Thanks for everything, man, I appreciate it, buddy. That's it for this week, folks, be sure to tune in next week for more white

tail goodness. This has been the Wired to Hunt podcast and I'm your guest host Tony Peterson. As always, thank you so much for listening, and if you're looking for more white tail content, be sure to check out the meat eator dot com slash wired to see a pile of new articles each week by Mark Alex, who's the guest on this show, myself, and a whole slew of white tail addicts, Or you can head on over to the wire to Hunt YouTube channel to view the weekly content we dropped