Ep. 557: Overcoming Errant Shots, Buck Fever, and Bad Luck with Terry Drury‬

challenges to find deer hunting success. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Life, and today we are wrapping up shooting month all July, we've been talking about how to become a more accurate and effective shot at deer, so that or whatever year this is that you're listening to, can be your best shooting year at her At least that's my goal for myself. I want this year to be my best shooting year ever.

I want good, clean, perfect shots. I don't want any questions. I want to know exactly what happened. I want to know I was in control and that I put that arrow or that bullet where it's got to be. That's my goal. And so over these past few weeks, I've been talking all sorts of folks about how they do that.

Some of the very best out there, some of the best Archer's, best gun hunters, best bow hunters, folks like Taylor Chamberlayne, Spencer new Hearth, Jordan's Siller's, Randy Almer, and this some really good stuff from guys who get it done. But I also thought it could be useful to learn and to hear from someone who has struggled, right because I struggle. I bet you've had struggles to whether that be with target panic or buck fever or whatever way

you're shooting, mishaps show up. I'm sure you've had something happened. How do we deal with that? How do we deal with the tough times? How do we deal with the pressure and anxiety that comes from having a few bad hits or a miss? How do we move on from that and get better? I wanted to talk to someone who has really dealt with that and dealt with it

in a big way and in a public way. And the best person I could think of was Mr Terry Drewy, one of the co founders of Drewy Outdoors, an incredible deer hunter, a great guy, but someone who has, you know, publicly, you know, shown some of his mishaps. He's had plenty of misses and bad hits and things like that along the way that we've all been able to see on there are many many different shows and videos and films

over the years. He's someone who has had to publicly deal with that and figure it out and get better and keep going. And I think there's a lot we can learn from him. And that's what we wanted to discuss today. And Terry was gracious enough find enough open enough to be willing to discuss this, Discuss some tough times, discuss some tough situations and how he's pushed through it

and how he's gotten better. So if you have ever dealt with target, panic, with bad shots, with buck fever, with I don't know what you want to call it, but if you've ever struggled, I think you'll be able to relate to Terry, and I think you'll be able to learn something from this one. So I'm excited for you to listen, and I really do help that's going to help you out. So that's what's in store. I want to give you a couple of quick reminders though,

before we get into this. Uh Number one, remember I told you guys last week that I'm coming up with weekly, sorry, monthly gear recommendations from the Meat Eater store. I've got those right now if you head to the wired hunt website. You can just go to wired hunt dot com or go to the meat Eater and navigate to the wired Hunt website. There you'll see my four shooting month recommendations.

You've got to recommended target, recommended shirt for summertime shooting and scouting, all that, uh, recommended shooting bags if you're gonna be trying to sit in and shoot with your firearm here soon. And then finally, the Vortex Impact one thousand is fift off on our store right now. That was one of my recommendations too, so be sure to

check that out. I'll continue throwing up some different ideas over the course of the season, uh, something that might be helpful if you're in the market for any of those things. So that is one reminder. The other thing heading over to Instagram and follow me at wired hunt if you want to see what's going on in my world. Because I really start doubling down on preparations for this

upcoming white tail season and I've even started TikTok. I don't really like TikTok, but you've got to be there, so I'm gonna be posting more on there as well. So if you are a TikTok or look for Mark Kenyon on there and you will be able to follow along with some of my video exploits that I'll be sharing this coming season two. So holy smokes, guys, it's

almost the end of summer hunting seasons almost here. So I really hope you're out there shooting, and I hope my conversation with Terry Drewy can help you as you do that. So without further ado, let's get into it all right with me back on the show. Is Mr Terry Drewy himself. Terry, welcome back. Well, thank you, Mark. I always enjoy this. You and I don't get to catch up near often enough, so I'm looking forward to speaking to you about a number of different topics. Yeah,

me too, I really appreciate it. I always enjoy our our catchups as well, and and this one, Terry is going to be I think, particularly helpful, but also a little bit of a doozy, So I hope you'll I

hope you'll bear with me on this topic today. But it's a It's a personal topic for me as well, because we're we're in the midst of shooting month here on the podcast, and I'm doing this because I have kind of been going through a rough shooting spell myself, had one of my worst seasons last year that I can remember umber um and have kind of shared the publicly what's gone right, what's gone wrong, And coming out of a number of misses and bad hits last year,

I decided that my really, my main goal in two is just shooting, just getting better. Like I don't I don't care if I shoot three bucks or a big buck or that one buck. I don't care about any of that this year. I just want to have good shots. If that means I shoot one dough perfectly, that would be a success for me this year. So that is why this whole month has been focused on this topic and hopefully helping all other people in the same boat.

And I got to thinking the way we should wrap this series is with someone who has struggled with the same things that I've struggled with and and worked through it. And you tell me if I'm right about this, But from stuff I've seen in her, seems like you've had your share struggles when it comes to shooting too. Is that Is that an accurate assessment? You know why it appears that way because they know all of my mishaps, but they never show any marks that there's some truth

in that. Really. But with that being said, absolutely, you know, and the way I look at that mark's I've never ever been been embarrassed to say, hey, I met an errand shot, or I had a difficulty making a shot, or whatever it may be. Because if you've hunted any length of time at all, you're gonna go through some of those ups and downs. Not everyone is perfect. Now. I know there's a lot of guys out there that think they're perfect, but it don't always work like that.

And karma. Karma is a bit if you will because it will it will come back and bite you in the tail end. We've had those ups and downs and just about time you think you're getting really, really good at it, mother nature has a way of stumbling you. And uh, you know, the deer doesn't always read the script.

So we we try to always show what's happening in real life, and we want to make sure that everybody understands that it's easy to critique someone else, you know, to sit back at an armchair and say, man, that was a bad shot, or he made an errand shot. But it's unless you're in that position and you're standing in those boots. Sometimes it's it's easy to critique, it's another thing to make make that shot. And and I'm not embarrassed at all to say we we've had our

our difficulties, We've had our ups and downs. Yeah, was it a was it a like what am I trying to say here? What was it tempting to hide some of those things and to not show them at all? And then did you make like an active decision to say, you know what. I know people are gonna give me a hard time about this. I know I'm gonna get some crap, but I think it's actually helpful for people. I mean, was that a thing that you had to

talk about and think about over the years. Absolutely. You know, when you're younger and you're just getting into the sport and and you're in front of a camera, there's sometimes there's an added pressure on you that you don't you don't even think about. And if you're by yourself and you're hunting in the timber and you you launch an arrow and you missed the deer, you shoot under his belly or over his back. Nobody knows about it, nor do you have to tell anyone. With us, everybody knows

about it and there is no hiding. So yes, there were times where you didn't want to show it because your pride and your ego and everything gets in the way, particularly if you're an archer. I mean, that's the pride is making the perfect shot each and every time, and from an ethical standpoint, that's exactly why we're there. We're wanting to make that double long or heart shot each and every shot. You want, you know, pinpoint accuracy. But

it doesn't always happen that way. And you know, whether you drop your bow arm, or whether you anchored incorrectly, or whether your your stance wasn't correct. Some of those things happened in the heat of the moment, and the last thing you want to do is share it with somebody in and show that you're not as good as

you would like to be. And will your pride really really gets hurt, It gets bruised, your ego gets bruised early on, and then after you've been through the motions for many many decades, you're okay with saying, you know what, I've killed several hundred deer and I've made great shots

on a lot of them. But once in a while, things happen, and you've got to share it so that other people can understand they're not alone, They're not the only one that has issues and has problems, uh, and being willing to share and hopefully someone else will learn from your mistakes. That's really what we've always been all about, was making sure that somebody else could learn by one

of our mistakes. Yeah. So, speaking of bruised pride, and I hate to do this, but can we dig up some skeletons from the closet or some long lost memories that you may be shoved away and hoped not to have to think back on, Terry? Is there is there any errant's shot, any mistake, any situation like this that stands out over your decades hunting as the most painful, or the most eye opening, or the most impactful in

some way? Was Is there any one story that you can think back on that sticks out to you still for any one reason or another how much time you've got there. There are a couple Mr. Christmas was one in particular that was a dear that I was really really really hunting for several years, and he was a big deer. He was a two hundy and and UH shot over him and just didn't get him dead. Rushed

the shot. A doe was uh in front of him, and she squirted on past this, you know, and as she squirted on past, and he squirted on past and stopping him and then not settling in and rushing the shot just cost me a really really big deer. Uh. And within five minutes after that, I killed another really nice dear that was following him. But that wasn't exactly

the script, you know. I wanted to kill Mr Christmas and had dedicated a lot of years to killing him, and so that was that was the maybe the first and foremost that comes to mind. Another one was a giant, giant eight point over in Pike County, Illinois that a neighbor ended up killing the following year. And I think he was in the one eighties as a as an eight the year that I steam, I think he was in the high sixties, low seventies. But there too, Uh, I knew who he was and got rattled and shot

over the top of him body. I didn't settle in like I should have rushed the shot. You always feel like there's not enough time to settle and oftentimes there isn't much time to settle it depending on where you're hunting and how skittish the deer are and whether they typically moved during daylight or not. Uh, some of those elements all factor into it, and particularly if it's a deer you know, when you're after mantle man, it's it's

hard to settle in sometimes. Yeah. So, if you were to look back over your your journey as a deer hunter and think through all the ups and downs, is there a period of your hunting career where you had the worst struggles? Like, is there a period like this was your low point? Where you had a year or five years or a chunk of time where you really struggled and then you came out of it or you've

improved a little bit. Does any kind of time period stand out is like, oh, this was the worst of this and there was I guess what I'm trying to get at as I'm curious to understand that what did the lowest point look like? For you? Like, what what did those struggles look like what was going wrong? Um, how did you diagnose that low point? If there is, maybe there's just spreadic little bits over the whole time. I'm not sure what it was for you, But does

anything like that stand out? Oh yeah, I lasted about a decade if I remember you, No, it was I went through one season that I can remember that what I had target panic so bad, and and it was from shooting a lot. I guess. I don't know how you can get target panic after you've been shooting for twenty five or thirty years, but I did. I went through a season and man, oh man, it was. It was the dold rooms. I just could not get out

of it. And uh, you know, I talked to, uh some of the best archers in the world and different professionals on how do you get over or get rid of target panic? And it's a mind I don't know what it is. There's some trigger in your brain. But the moment that that that target came in to view, man, you were launching the trigger and it just everybody tried different you know, tried different releases and this, that and the other, and and uh, I finally ended up shooting

my way through it. But boy, oh boy, I had to shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot. And I was I'm so hardheaded, number one, and and determined that I wasn't about to let it get the best of me. And I just kept kept plugging and kept shooting and grinding and scratching and clawing. And I'm talking thousands of rounds through bow. Now. It took me a while to get over it, but I finally get

through it. And I don't know what causes it, nor do I have any resolution for anyone in the future, because it's something that everybody's got a different way to get over it and get past it. And uh, I don't know what works for any individual that that I can relate to and say, hey, here's here's how to get over it. There's just no answer. But the only way I can tell you I literally shot until I wore myself out, and I shot my way through it. And was that just shooting in the backyard or did

you do any higher stakes? I mean, I know one thing people talk about is try to practice more and shoot more in high pressure situations, so you're at least learning how to better handle that. I mean, was there some element to that. Did you shoot with friends, you shoot tournaments? Did you Was it just shooting more deer and just shooting lots of doughs like I know you do on your Missouri farm. Does that help at all?

This majority of it was during the summer months, so I was I was shooting a lot of flat footed there in the driveway, and I have a you know, I had a tree stand on the side of a tree, and I'd be three foot up, six foot up whatever and shooting out of a tree stand. Sometimes I'd get to, you know, get the targets out and have the deer in the yard. And I went through all that. I

tried it all. I tried all those methods, and there wasn't much helping, to be quite honest, But I ended up just plugging at a target and I just continued plugging. One of the one of the the guys, one of the professional archer, said, hey, shooting a pipe played a bigger shoot a bigger target. Don't try and shoot at something so small. And then another guy said shoot with your eyes closed, and this, that and the other. So

I did. I did all that, but at the end of the day, I just kept shooting and kept shooting and kept shooting. Most of that was flat footed on the driveway until I finally worked my way through it. And it was just a matter of settling in and not not never putting my finger on the trigger, if you will. A lot of guys use back tension and so and so forth, but they say that that will

cure it as well, or some release. But I just I would draw and hold on and just look at the target and not and not not punch it, not ever released the trigger, never released the arrow. And I just did that over and over and over one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three, you know, and those little tricks. But boh boy, it was painful. Yeah, I I can relate. I mean, that's that's been exactly my issue. As soon as that pins on the vital area, I

it's it's gone. The arrow has just been off. I've I've had a hard time holding on and taking those extra seconds. So I'm dealing with the same thing right now myself and thinking, I think it's getting better with my new regimen this year. But you know that's all going to be tested here in a month or two once the season starts. So what s Mark? I will say that shooting those doughes makes a big, big difference. I I will admit, and I shoot a lot of them,

trust me. But it does help. It really does help if you get a dough at ten or twelve yards, or you get one of fifteen yards and you know she's dead when she walks in there, and you can settle in uh and take your time, or just come to full draw and don't shoot. That's that's another option. It's come to full draw and just do not shoot. Never never shoot the deer, release or lay back, you know, let back down. Those those little tricks actually work about

as well as anything, to be quite honest. Um So, speaking of that, then when you have a situation like that, a doze coming in, or any deer for that matter, what does your shop process look like now now that you've you've been practicing to get through that target pant, to be able to hold onto the arrow without releasing it too soon? Like? What does your whole process from beginning to end look like? As as a deer's coming into range and you realize in your head, okay, I'm

gonna shoot this deer. What what are the steps that follow my my primary number one focus is either broad or quartering away. So I'm gonna wait and wait and wait and wait until she gives you the shot. And Mark Mark was really Mark Drury was the one that uh instilled this in both of us many many years ago. And that's not coming to full draw until you're ready

to shoot him. So that's a big, big plus. When she gets either broad or quartering away, meaning they're coming right at you, just let them walk past you or let him get broadside and then come to full draw. I see it all the time where guys get hung out to dry and they take a quartering two shot because they draw too soon. And I'd say that's probably the number one mistake that most people make, and we used to make it as well. I did it many many many decades ago, where I I just couldn't wait

to get full draw. Well, the trick is not coming to full draw until you're ready to kill them. And you're ready to kill them when you know they're in your round house and you go, okay, dead, Well, what is that? That's maybe thirty yards for some guys, might be forty yards for others, maybe twenty yards. The older I get in the less pound edge I pull. I want that circle to be pretty dog on, small, pretty tight, and when they get into under twenty, you go okay dead.

So now then the next step is go, okay, I'm gonna wait till they're broad and you know, when they're feeding, if it's early season or late season, they're feeding, they're going to give you a shot. You just have to be patient. And sometimes it takes a little while before they you know, their noses down and they're eating clover or or they might be in soybeans or whatever, but they're eventually going to give you a great shot a broadside. So there then the patients comes into effect. And I'm

always looking forward. If I'm in the timber, I'm looking ahead at these openings. Where is my next window? Where can I draw? And then where am I gonna shoot? You know, So there's a whole regiment of things that you go through in your brain, But in the timber, I'm always looking ahead as to where I'm gonna kill the deer. At Okay, now that deer steps into that lane or it stops, gives you that broadside, and now

you're gonna draw your bow. Can you can you walk me through what goes through your mind, as the as the bow is drawn, as you settle in, as you do all the different things. Could you walk me through each piece of that well. Number One, I draw flat, meaning I draw a level to make sure because I practice on a flat surface typically, and then I'll get to an elevated position. But typically I draw a level so that my anchor is correct. I try to always draw my bow flat and level so that I anchor

at the exact same spot. And then when I've been I try to bend at the waist, which you're supposed to do, but I don't change my anchor point. That always stays in the exact same spot, and and you kind of know the yard if once they get within twenty, I always like to say, hey, I can shoot out the thirty with top pin. If you're only shooting one and a lot of guys you're using a h k

S where they have to dial them in. But for the most part, these new bows nowadays shoot relatively flat if you're pulling any poundage at all, and most guys can shoot one pin at the thirty yards, so if they get under thirty, you're usually pretty dog on safe in your you know, in your positioning. So once they get in that roundhouse, I make sure that I draw level, I make sure that I anchor correctly, I've bend at the waist, and then you just try to settle that

pin the best you can. Behind the shoulder are depending on a high long low long, depending on how close they are. You're looking at that window, and then I'm always looking at the off leg always, because the off leg will tell you if they're slightly quattering too, or

they're slightly quattering away. Sometimes you get lost in the shuffle or you can't see the farest through the trees because your eyes roll back in your head, particularly if if it's a big buck with a big rack sitting on his head and you lose track of where his shoulders are at. So watch for that off shoulder in lieu of the on shoulder, and that will always tell

you if he's quartering two or quartering away. What about I know you mentioned, you know, working through target panic and learning to hold on without firing the arrow, But what about just simple buck fever and nerves? Uh? Does that? Do you? Do? You still get impacted with that kind of thing? Absolutely? Absolutely? I get his rattled on a dough an adult dough as I do a buck. I don't know why, but I just do because I know

I'm gonna killer. I guess number one. But I still get extremely nervous on on an adult dough and in the same way with a buck, And I guess the day I lose, that will be the day I quit. Uh, we're a little better now, and the fact with with you know, trail cameras and the way they've advanced. Obviously, I don't know that we've ever shot a deer here on my farm that we didn't know. But sometimes if you know him, it's a little worse than if you

didn't know him. You know, you get you still get rattled, particularly if you if you had an idea who it was and you've been hunting four or five years and you're finally going to get an opportunity. The last thing you want to do is screw it up. So that's always that's always an issue. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna back up one second on a deer. You you mentioned a deer and I didn't. I didn't release an arrow at this year, but it's one I will never ever get back. And it was a monster up on

Marx Farm in Iowa. Was both hunting up there and uh it was baby G and H and deer ended up the neighbor ended up killing him. But I came to full draw on him and I couldn't at that time. I didn't have lighted pins. I couldn't see, and uh, I got within like thirty and then he got seven and then and to make a long story sharp, I came to full draw twice on him. I came to full draw, I couldn't see my pins. I let down.

I pulled back again, trying to find and I took my pins above his back, trying to come back down and see his vitals. And I just couldn't do it. I couldn't see him, and it wasn't all that dark, but it was dark enough. I could not put a pin on him exactly for yardage and so on and so forth, so I had to let him walk away. I never released an arrow, but that was one I would I would love to have back. Now, when you look at that one, though, do you what's your takeaway

lesson from that? Do you look at that as like, oh, that was I should have found a way to take that shot, or as part of you glad you didn't because it might have resulted in a bad shot because of the bad lighting. Well, I will say this, it's the perils of filming and having having a cameraman with you. We weren't communicating real well, and I wasn't certain whether he could see him and when he was on him,

and this, that and the other. So I was literally turning around and say, Ryan, you got to tell me, are you on this deer or not? So I was more worried about the footage, and I should have been worried about killing the deer in all reality, So I kind of let him get in and get out by worrying whether or not he had the footage of the deer. Come to find out, he had him full frame. But I wish he'd have said something like I'm on him. So if I'd have known that he was on him,

the outcome may have been different. But I can't say that for sure. But um, I can't help but think if all I was worried about was killing him, a pretty good chance i'd have got an arrow in him, you know, because I would have just concentrated a little harder. I've had a little more time to get the pins above his back and bring it down into his vitals, and this, that and the other thing. But there was more to it than just him. It brings up, though,

an important topic. I think, at least something I've found and you alluded to this already, but just how much build up there is to these encounters and so much pressure we put on ourselves because we want this deer so bad, whether it's because we've hunted this same buck for four years or just because we we have worked so hard this summer and fall and we've sat fifteen straight days or whatever it is. When that opportunity finally does come, it seems it seems like life or death

for you, like you have to get this shot. At least that's how it felt for me. I've had moments where it seems like I've given every single ounce of energy, blood, sweat, and tears to get to this moment, and then here's this buck coming in. And you know, there's one story I can think of from two or three years ago, maybe two years ago, where the buck had have been

after for three years. You know, finally it's coming into bow range, but he's back in this brush and I'm trying to find some little hole, and I've realized that if I kind of half kneeled down, there's like a softball size hole, and I'm leaning over and bending down, and in that crazy high stakes moment, it seemed to my head that I had to try. And then you know, right afterwards, I forced this horrible shop and missed the buck. And then after that you realize, you know, what a

stupid thing to do. Um, why would I have done that? It could have been worse. I could have wounded him, I could have never found him. Um, so at least I missed. But have you ever had situations like that too, where you force something because of that high pressure and then you realize, wow, you know it would have been so much better to just hold onto that arrow because of how much how how bad end up getting or how much worse it could have been. Or is that

a thing you've dealt with too? Yes? And I would say that earlier in our career we probably forced some errand shots that we should never have taken. And I think some of that comes with experience, Meaning if you're a novice archer, it's easy to make those mistakes and wish that you had and you always you can never get the arrow back. But boy, when you when you let it go, you go, oh my god, why did I do? Why did I shoot there? That was so stupid.

And I think as an ovous hunter, it's easy to do that, and experience will will sometimes rectify that or cure that. But it takes a lot of archery shots and a lot of deer on the ground to get to get past that, and experience sure makes a difference. But yes, in answer to question, we certainly have done that. The big deer that I was talking about, while it goes to clarify that number one, I was hunting on

Mark's farm and I knew the deer. I knew exactly who he was, and I knew how big he was, and I just didn't want to screw it up or anything. I wanted to make sure that if I released an arrow at this year, he was dead. That was my number one concern was making sure that I killed him. And you know, when we when I wanted to talk to the camera guy and I said, if you're on him, you need to tell me or you on him or not. You know, I was turned around looking at him, and

I let you get in on us. Make a scrape, and the footage is really good. I just wish he'd communicated a little sooner, and and I wasn't about to screw it up. So I literally let him, let him get his butt to me, and just walk dead away. And I never never released an arrow, But that was one that I wish I could have back, but one I can say I was proud I didn't. I didn't

mess it up either. You know. Yeah, that seems like, like you said, one of those kinds of realizations that probably comes with time and experience, that realizing sometimes the best shot is the shot never taken. Um. It's a hard pill to swallow, I imagine in a lot of cases, but sometimes it's the right call. Um I had. I had one guy, a buddy of ours, it just happens to be a PBR bull rider, and he called me and literally tongue lashed me over the phone, saying, what

were you thinking? Why didn't you shoot that deer? You know, after he saw the footage, he is really all over me. So I probably should have. I could have. I still should have maybe, But you know, I don't know if one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't. Kind of thing. So so back to being you know in that shot sequence, Um you mentioned you still get rattled, you still get excited. Um, what do you do now to try to control that? How do you try to

control buck fever? Like in the field? Is it talking to yourself breathing? Is there is there any little trick or method you have to try to center yourself, calm yourself,

get control of yourself in that moment. I truly believe at late season in early season, those two where you know the deer are going to be moving a little bit slower kind of helps that process because you've got a little more time to lay an eyeball on them, You've got a little more time to process the shot, You've got a little more time to settle in when they're not running rampant through the timber like you might

see during the rut. So I think given the time to settle down and settle calm your nerves just a little bit, and breathe if you will. A lot of the baseball players all say that you've got to breathe. You know, Jim Tolmy one of the greatest home run hinters of all time. It is tremendous at settling in and settling down and preparing for a shot. But he's been on some of the biggest stages, you know, throughout his career. And that's what majority of those guys will

tell you. It's it's just take time to breathe now easier said than done. You might be breathing at five beats a minute, you know. But and some guys may never get over it. I've seen them all, And I mean we've watched some really really a good big buck hunters that that can make that shot with nerves of steel and ice water in your veins and then fall apart after the shot, you know. So I wished I had that ability. I would much rather have ice water in my veins and fall apart after the shot than

fall apart before the shot. Yeah, for sure. So when you when a shot goes bad for you now right, I know, like you dealt with a series of really really significant struggles, but I know stuff still has gone wrong in more recent years. What's is there any common um common factor nowadays? If, for example, I remember there's a hunt a few years ago that buck dangerous calling, Is there any kind of thing you can point your finger to now, like if something goes wrong. It's this

kind of thing these days. Is it random one off things or is it a buck fever moments? Still, what what's your situation today? I guess is what I'm getting at. You know, that one's a really really good point, And I'll tell you why I was hunting there too. I was hunting on Mark's farm and I was in a blind that I had never sat before, and I wasn't comfortable sitting down or standing up. There was no in between, nor could I kneel down and get over the window.

So there was one instance where everybody kind of you know, gives you a hard time about hunting out of a blind. It's not easy shooting through a window. It just isn't. Anybody that thinks it is needs to cut a hole in a in a cardboard box and try shooting through it at different different positions. It just isn't that easy. So I wished i'd have been a little more prepared and went into that blind sooner and figured out how high I needed to be or how low I needed

to be. And it was partially from being my fault for not being prepared. So I was in between. I was crouching and you know, trying to make sure that I didn't hit a window with a fletching or hit it with your other thing you gotta worry about is hitting it with your limbs, on your bow or your cam. And I was in a really really awkward position. I wish I could do that one over again as well. It was just uh, not being prepared and either standing up, sitting down, or kneeling down if there was no I

was in between all of that. I was crouched halfway down and had a terrible anchor terrible anchor point. You might draw a flat but when you're crouching halfway down and you're you know, it just wasn't I didn't feel good. I should probably have never taken the shot. Yeah, it looked like a tough situation. Um so, so then tell me this, how do you handle the moments or in some cases, the days after a bad situation like that?

Because I know some people will miss a deer and then you know, it breaks them and for days they're so bummed out about it, or they hit a deer and they can't recover it and they want to they're done for the year, or they're depressed for a week. How do you handle those situations, How do you get yourself out of it? How do you get your head right again? That's one of the toughest things on the

planet as an archer. I'll be honest you and I don't know that you ever truly get over those because we talked about pride and ego, and your your ego is hurt, itself inflicted and the only person you could blame is yourself. And man, oh man, those are really really tough pills to swallow, and I don't know that you ever truly get over it. Here we are talking about, you know, the hunts that happened decades ago. So it's it's one of those things you never quite get over.

You always want to improve, and as an ethical archer or an ethical firearms hunter, you want to make the perfect shot each and every time, and the last thing you want to do is injured deer. I mean, it's I don't know, I I some of you just never get over. But it's the old adage. You've got to get back on the horse and ride it. But you tuck that away in your mind and you go, how can I learn from it? How can I improve? How can I be a better hunter? How can I be

a better shot? And what do I need to go through? What steps? What regimen do I need to go through to make sure that doesn't happen again? And that's the only or the best advice I can give is to say, get back on the horse and and play that that scenario over in your mind, over and over and over. How do I fix it? How can I get better? Yeah? Do you have any and I guess filming helps with this, but have you have you learned anything or do you have any process for kind of analyzing a shot, like

diagnosing what went wrong? Because that for me, it's always been so hard to look back and try to identify, you know, where did I go wrong? Especially since in many of these cases I guess, I guess I do know where it went wrong because I was rushing and rushing so much that I can't remember where the problem was. But but but for you, how do you go about trying to analyze what happened? Here? Where is my mistake? How do I get better? Like? What does that look like?

In the details? For you? You know, as readily available as you can lay something down on your phone nowadays, the best scenario you can possibly give yourself is to film yourself shooting out in your backyard and go through the motions and just see or have someone film you. But that is probably the best advice I can give. And we do have the luxury of having a cameraman, uh so we can SlowMo and watch every single thing.

Oh I didn't anchor correctly, or you know what I didn't Uh I didn't follow through, or oh I dropped my bow arm. You know, oftentimes the deer so close that you think it's a chip shot. First thing you do is releasing. You're looking before the arrows barely out of the you know, at the riser, so it's easy to drop your bo arm and not follow through. So you know, obviously practice makes perfect. Pete Shepley with PSC used to say, you know, that's an adage, he goes,

I like to say perfect practice makes perfect shooting. So being able to analyze your shot out in your backyard or on your driveway is one of the best ways to analyze it and look at it in SloMo and say, dog on, I'm I'm really not following through or I'm really not anchoring the same way that I should be each and every time, or I'm dropping my ball arms something terrible, you know. So I do believe that practice and practice perfect makes the right shot each and every time.

But it's easy to say that it's a whole another thing when you get in a tree stand and I think that training your body, that regiment that you go through, you're gonna let some of that that instinctive shooting if you will, because your your body is going to take over that muscle memory. You know, if you do it enough times and you're repetitious about it, and you do it the exact same way over and over and over and over and over, in the heat of the moment,

your body is gonna take over. Oftentimes, the last thing you want to do is pick up your bowl a week before the season and go out there and try and shoot a deer. I mean, it takes months of practice so that your muscle memory takes over in the heat of the moment. Yeah, what does that perfect practice look like for you? Like, what, what's the most important things you're doing? How much? How often is there anything unique that you add to that practice regiment to really

simulate real world scenarrows or anything that well. I kind of touched on this briefly earlier before we went on air here. But I'm a left handed shooter, but so I have to work two or three times harder than everyone else to make a good shot. So no matter how many millions of rounds I may put through a bow, I'm never ever ever going to be a tremendous archer. I just I'm not unless I unless I go back

to shooting right handed. I started forty years ago shooting right handed, and I probably should have stayed that way because I'm right eye dominant. But I played baseball, I played football, on golf and everything else I did left handed, and I right left handed, So I became a left handed archer, and I shoot left handed. And I've never ever shot a left handed gun. They're all right handed guns the way they discharge if it's an automatic. But I've never ever shot a left handed firearms. But I

shoot left handed. I right left handed. Everything I do is a left handed So, to make a long story, shart, I practiced two and three times longer harder than probably everyone else has to because it's the wrong eyeball are the wrong set of hands, ever you want to look at it. So I have that regiment that regiment that I go through is I try to make sure that that I draw a flat I'm trying to make sure that I anchor the exact same spot each and every time. I try to make sure that I don't drop my

bow arm. And then I may start with some bigger, some bigger you know, maybe uh not great fruit, but baseball size. Early season, I'll go plunk, you know, a dozen arrows, you know, And I start out with a little bit bigger pattern in the beginning, you know, in June and July, and then as the season gets closer, and I start one to two times a week, and then and then I'll go to three times a week in July, and then I start shooting every day in August, and then twice a day in the latter part of

August and September morning and evening. So I refine that shooting, and I want that repetition to take over. Like I mentioned, but I go from those bigger targets in the beginning of the summer to a dime or something a little smaller, you know, dime, tenning quarter, and try to try to hone that in so that you're so that your group is much more consistent and it's much much tighter as

the season gets closer. And then again, the repetition is is a big part of it, but is shooting flat anchoring the same way and not dropping your bow arm and settling in counting one thousand one, one thousand two and the old figure eight. You know that you go through, it's it. There's something to that, you know when you look at it, and you're looking at that target. So taking it to a smaller target is really really helpful

as far as trying to refine your your group. When you say the figure eight, are you just talking about floating your pen on the target or what do you mean by that? Yes, I I really have trouble keeping it on one spot for longer than a second or two. I find myself doing that figure eight. So uh, knowing when to release, I think is a big big part of it now. And I know those professional archers may

all have different a different way of doing it. You know those guys that can shoot at a hundred yards and and hit a quarter each time, By and Chris and don't know the guys, they're they're ridiculous. I mean, they're they're an anomaly. When you think about it, and you watch him, you go, oh my god, I wish I could shoot like that. Well, uh, not everybody can. It's just that simple. I don't care how long you

practice or how hard you practice. You can become a better shot, and you can become very, very proficient at it. But shooting like those guys, that's that's just unlike anything I've ever watched. Watching those guys, you know, that brings up an interesting question then, because you're right, there's there's some people that can shoot crazy far and insanely accurately.

And those people usually, you know, get a lot of press and a lot of people talk about him, and it's and it's easy to see that and think, well, jeez, if that guy is doing this, then I should be able to shoot at seventy or I should be able to go out on my western trip and shoot a prong horn at eighty five. Or gosh, I saw Lee Lakowski plug that buck at sixty five yards in this food plot. So when I've got my biggest buck ever at sixty five yards out in front of me, yeah,

I could. I should do that. I gotta believe there's some folks that see that kind of thing. And then assume that, well, that's what I should be doing too. How how do you terry go about or how did you go about figuring out your own personal limits? How did you figure out what was the right kind of shot for you to take the right maximum range? How do you figure that out? How do you go through that? Because I think that's an important part of this whole equation.

I do. I would agree with you there. I think knowing your roundhouse and that's what I call it, that that dead zone where if they get within that perimeter, you know they're dead. And I think confidence has a lot to do with that. You're shooting confidence and you're shooting ability. Is is important. And recognizing that, which is the question you're asking, and being fine with that with yourself and saying my confidence level is thirty yards and under,

or my confidence level is forty yards and under. You have to be disciplined enough to say, you know what he might be at fifty six, I'm just not going to take that shot. I'm gonna I'm gonna work on him tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow is another day. We'll get another opportunity and you may never see him again. But having the discipline and being a good sportsman and a good woodsman and being ethical with your shooting is number one. It really is. And being being that person, and I

know it takes a while. I think it takes years of experience and years of screwing up to say, you know what, I'm just not that good at at sixty yards. I'm just not so I'm not gonna try it out of respect for the animal. And I think that's first and foremost is respect for the quarry that you seek. And we wrote that in our catalogs thirty five years ago. Respect the quarry that you seek. And if you respect that animal in the game enough to say, I'll try

him on my church tomorrow. You know, we're playing his game today and he won. He didn't get close enough. But you know what, I'm gonna try him and get tomorrow. And I'm gonna do a little different. I'm gonna change up a little bit. I'm gonna move in on him. I'm gonna, you know, play the wind a little different. I'm gonna ut him in the morning instead of evening or whatever it may be. I think respect is number one.

And and knowing what your safe zone is, knowing what your dead zone is and the confidence in your shooting ability. If you're not confident at sixty, just don't take it. Don't take that shot. Yeah, like you said earlier, you can never get an narrow back. And boy does it hurt when you release it and you see it going the wrong way or going under him, going over him, or hit him in the in the tail or in the guts or something. You go, oh my god, what

was I thinking? You know, it's the worst feeling in the world, highest of highs and the lowest of blows. And we've all been there. You just described it a little while ago with that dear you were trying to wake one through there, you know, Yeah, it's the roller coaster. Serious. Um, Back to practice a second. You talked about how you kind of scale up your practice regiment through like this early summer and into the beginning of the season. But what about in season practice do you do? Do you

do much shooting throughout the season? What does that look like? Because that's the thing that I've al is thought to myself, I need to do more of But I always have struggled with sticking to it consistently and doing it enough amidst the chaos of the actual hunts. What's that look like for you? Shoot every day? We shoot every single day throughout the season, and and if I miss a day or two, I know it. I can tell it immediately,

you know, because you don't get but one. Typically you get one shot, so you it better be a good one when you release it. So we we shoot every day, try to stay sharp so that when you get into a tree stand, or you get into a blind, a ground blind and elevated blind, whatever it may be, when you get in there it's your fourth or fifth shot that day, or six shots, meaning you've taken one to three and four and you got dialed in and go damn, I'm ready, and then you you know that that next

one is gonna be a good one. And I stay in sharp every day, keeping that muscle memory, keeping that anchor point, making sure you're not dropping your bow arm. All those things are so important. And we shoot every single day throughout the season. So what's that look like

on I don't let's say No. Member seventh or something, when maybe let's say you're playing hunting all day, how do you where do you and how do you slip slip in that little bit of shooting and is it is it like you said, like a couple of arrows, or do you try to get in twenty minutes or what does that actually look like? Mine's usually three or four. Three or four arrows is all I shoot. But it's

every single day. And if I got to do it at night in the barn with the lights on at ten yards, that's fine, you know, or fifteen yards, whatever it may be. But typically it's mid day if we come in and grab a sandwich or something. If it's if it's early season, it's every day. You know, you got all morning or whatever. Unless the moon's right. We may go hunt in some morning hunts, but we'll squeeze it in there wherever the time will permit. If we come in and grab a sandwich, you make plump an

arrow or two before you go back out. But early season, it's usually in the mornings, will stand out in the driveway there and plunk. Sometimes it's ten or twelve arrows, but usually it's three or four. If i'm if we know we're ready by the time the season gets here, then it's three or four arrows. If we're not ready, then at twelve, the fifteen, maybe twenty, you know, but you like to hope that you're ready when a season hits.

So we will squeeze it in there wherever we can throughout the day, and then you know when a firearms seasons start kicking in, when Missouri's firearm season starts to roll around. Because we're partners with Winchester ammunition, partners with Winchester firearms, uh, partners with Traditions muzzleloaders, you know, you've got to be prepared for that end of things as well. So the archery tackle kind of gets put to the side for a little while and then you start picking

up the firearms. So it's easy to forget about it there for for a moment. So if you do drop off and you don't shoot for a couple of weeks, then it takes a little bit longer because it's it's cooling down, you've got more clothes on, you're shooting with gloves, you may have a head net and so on and so forth. So all that changes the dynamic as well. Yeah, speaking of firearms, have you struggled on that side at all?

Have you have any of the target panic or you know, rushing shots or any of those things translated to the gun Sidon. I think that it is not too indifferent from the archery tackle, meaning years and years ago when we were novice hunters and just learning and had to camera over your shoulder with a little extra pressure. Yeah, we've we've made some errand shots there as well. But uh, I will say that firearms is a whole another element.

Some of the same you go through some of the same regiment as far as the breathing and and your focal point, but it's a whole different just a whole different can of worms. I enjoy shooting a firearms. We we love shooting all everything Winchester's God, and love shooting the traditions at Nitro fire the muzzleloader. You know, the conservation departments have given us the times where you uh, you know, kind of get to extend your season a little bit on on almost every state now, so we

really enjoy the muzzleoader seasons. And late season is always fun because we plan a lot of food obviously with carn and beans and biologic and uh, they're just in a different mode when the ruts starts to wind down and they're all about feeding instead of about breeding. It's a whole different animal. Once again, so I enjoy shooting, and we're we're pretty disciplined at it. You know there too,

you wait for that the right shot. Even though a firearms will do some different things and the archery tackle will and you can take them in different positions on the body, I still like to wait till the broadside or quartering away placed the perfect shot. We pride ourselves and trying to do that with the with the firearms, and uh, I don't know, I just I enjoy it. Can you Can you do the same thing with a gun that you did when we talked through your bow process.

Can you walk me through what you're shooting process looks like with a gun? How you you know, I'm curious about the details of how you get them into your scope and what you're thinking about and when you start to breathe or squeeze or all that stuff. What what does that look like for you? And how do you go about calming yourself and settling in in that situation. If it's any different than your boat, maybe it's the same.

Well I had said early on that I was hard headed when I when I work through the target panic, I'm just as hardheaded with with the firearms. I've got a certain roundhouse there, and and there's a lot of guys that are tremendous long distance shooters. We see it out West all the time, where they're making four and five hundred yards shots, you know, and six hundred yard shots. Where we're at in the Midwest there typically a shot might be one under. But if it's not, you know,

a hundred fifty yards, I just won't. I won't shoot at him. I'll wait till the next day or the following day or the following week. I just won't. And I prefer that at one thirty and under, one and under and and everything. We've got dialed in at a hundred yards, you know. So we know that we know the trajectory, we know how flat they shoot, we know you know the violence that you're gonna get on on impact. So we're just pretty dog on discipline about it. And

I think that's there too. I think it takes years of practice and years of harvesting a number of animals, and when you get disciplined enough and you say this is my round house, this is my shooting cop, but this is my dead zone. This is where I want them, and I'm not gonna shoot until they get there. And if you go in with that attitude, uh, you know, and because they're on camera, he might be out there

at one eight or two hundred. You're going, I'm just not gonna shoot him until he gets to one thirty. And some days they do, some days they don't. So you've got to be a disciplined hunter in that in that respect. But man, we we pride ourselves in trying to make a good shot. The last thing we want to do is make an errand shot, and uh, we just wait till they get into our confidence zone. Yeah. So once they're in that zone and you're getting ready, how what do you go How do you go about

settling in? Calming down? Is just the deep breathing in the same situation or what does that actually look like? You know, Mark, I like to heal, I call it hell. I like to heal my gun and or my elbow if I can, if I have that opportunity to heal your elbow or even your back for that matter. So there is zero movement, meaning you're you're really really rigid, and and from the moment they get into my roundhouse, even when they're quartering too, I keep the scope and

the crosshairs on them the entire time. And I do that so that when I when I get the shot, meaning when he finally does turn broadside or quartering away, I'm already settled in. If you've been on him for two minutes, five minutes, ten minutes, twenty minutes, when you get the opportunity to shoot, then it's a matter of squeezing. And we do a lot of target practice, much like we do with the archery tackle. We do the same

thing with the firearms. We shoot, and we shoot and we shoot, and we pride ourselves and trying to touch bullets with you know, depending on who you're shooting with and and at different distances, different yardages and so on and so forth, different cartridges, and uh, we just we go through the go through that motion and that regiment so that I don't know that it's necessarily muscle memory like it is with archery, but there's a certain regiment

that you go through with your eyes and training the eye and the finger and when to squeeze and the breathing and all those different things that we go through. But I keep that crossair on him the entire time, and then when you're finally presented with the shot, you're pretty pretty well calmed down, you're settled in, and all you gotta do is squeeze and pull the trigger. Yeah, so we we started this conversation, Terry, digging up some dirt and talking through a couple of your more painful

experiences with the shop. What about the flip side? Is there any hunt you can recall on the archery side again, where you were in the moment, you were fully in control, you did everything right, the shot was perfect, and and you can recall that. And I'm curious to hear that story here. I'd love to hear about a time when you did it all right and what that felt like and what that process looked like. Um, I think that could be just as helpful to understand in detail as

the as the painful missed opportunities sometimes as well. Well. Oddly enough, nobody remembers those remember the bat. They all remember the bad ones. But there are you know, there are dozens and dozens of those two. And I'm not I'm not trying to brag or say we're good or anything. I'm just saying that we have is way way more good ones than bad ones. It's just that the bad ones stick with you, and they stick in your mind

and you wish you could have it back. But we've had some really really great hunts with great deer over the years and killed a lot of nice bucks. And and I can't tell you how many doughs I've shot in my career. And and I try to pride myself on making as many good shots with the dose I do with the buck. I you know, I I really really cherish the fact that we've got an ample supply and our deer density is high and we're able to do that year after year after year. And I enjoy

shooting dose. But man, we've had a ton of really good bucks that we've killed and made the perfect shot, and the feeling is is one of yes, finally, all the work, everything that you put into it, all that effort, all that practice, all that you did, and even the chest match. I mean, it's not easy to kill a good buck in Missouri, you know, with consistency and regularity, and you know, because you know, we do what we do. We're trying to kill four and five good bucks a year.

And it's like it's the race of all races. It's a it's marathon trying to do it, because it's it's like trying to hit the lottery three, four or five times. It's just don't happen that way. So consistency and killing him year after year after years is not easy. And I'm not complaining whatsoever. We love doing it, we love spending the time, We love the chess match. But I have had an ample supply of really good deer that have come into our roundhouse or into that circle. Make

a good shot. The deer runs over seventy yards, falls over on camera, and uh, I just you know, the rest is history, as they say. I had one deer in particular, there was a hundred sixty two or four inch nine point he would attend the previous year. I didn't get a shot at him the previous year, but he came in, presented us with an opportunity. Watched him for an hour and a half on camera. He stayed out there. He finally got in there, opened the window

on a blind and boom, he was gone. I didn't get a shot at him, and that was prior to Thanksgiving. Came back after Thanksgiving, did the same exact thing. Uh. He came into our round house into the dead zone. If you will, and a doe bugger open the window, doe bugger, and he stood there and uh, and then he and then he bolted just a little bit and make a long story short, and put it put a great shot on him, and he ran sixty seventy yards

fell over dead. So there are a lot of those two with firearms and with archery tackle and I just when you do it, the feeling is one of I don't I don't know how to describe it other than somewhat of an ecstasy, if you will, because all the work you went into it, it's kind of a big deflation. All the air comes out of your lungs, and there's such a relief and such a yoke or burden off your shoulders that you just you can't describe it words.

I don't think words truly describe it. When they go down and tip over on camera, man oh man, there is no better feeling. Yeah. So when you look back over the last years or what ever it's been, terry, and you go back and you think about all these various um low points, mishaps that happened along the way, and you, like you said, you've had different coaches talked to You've had different friends talk to you. I'm sure you're your brothers talked to you, Your family and other

folks have all probably offered maybe unsolicited advice at times too. Um, what has been if you can think back on any one most important piece of advice that you've got, was there one thing or one change you made, or one one liner that's helped you the most, or or something that that you can look back on say, yeah, you

know what that was that was important? Does anything stand out when you look over those years and when it comes to helping you handle these situations, shoot better, deal with the pressure better, whatever part of this you want to tackle. One year and Mark pointed this out. We watched it over and over on on video. Which we talked about early on was having somebody fail me and I was really really gripping the riser, like extremely hard, like talking and gripping it way way harder than needed

to be. You know, so many guys shoot open palm and uh, you know, it's easy to get caught up in that moment where you grip and I think maybe in the heat of the moment, you kind of lose side of the fact that you're even doing it. You know, because you don't want to you don't want to screw up, so you're gripping just that much tighter, and you're you're talking and doing some things that you wouldn't normally do. And market points that out one year and it's just

easy to get caught up. But that was one of the things that was very, very helpful was just watching it on camera. Uh. And I think everybody can do that because almost everybody's either got an iPhone or an Android now and the cameras are spectacular, and you can shoot them in slow moor. You can shuttle back and forth and watch what you're doing. And I would say take it from different angles, a frontal and both sides, and then maybe from the back and see if your

bo arms dropping and so on and so forth. Then see if you're gripping, see if you're anchoring the same way each and every time. But I guess, you know, I don't know. I really don't have one in particular. I do believe that the harvesting a lot of animals has helped more than anything. You know, when you start shooting, you know, and I'm gonna get into say, you know, hundreds when you shoot hundreds of animals or hundreds of gear, then you should be, you know, over those those nerves.

Even though you're not, you should be. But it does help. It helps you go through the right motion, the right regiment at the right time, and that you get your brain process right. You know, there's a certain set of fuck processes that you go through, which we did. We've described and we went into that, and I think a guy should go through that regiment each and every time. And the other way to do it. If you see

a dough, pretend it's a buck. If you see a fawn, pretend it's an adult dough, and go how where am I going to kill this at? How am I gonna kill it? Go through the motions, And it's about getting your feet right on a platform. Where am I gonna have to get my butt? You know? If I want to, If I want to shoot this deer, you left, enter the right hand at it. We call it, I call

it into your hand and away from your hand. If you're a bull rider, they love when when a buck or bull turns into their hands or away from their hand, you know. And and that's what I talked about all the time. Whether you're turkey hunting, it's about getting your fannie switched around there. If you're a lefty or righty,

and archery is not too indifferent. If you know he's gonna be walking one side of the tree or the other, then you better be getting your feet turned, you know, so that you can make that shot, and you can turn into your hand or away from your hand a lot easier than you can the other direction. Yeah, that's a great point. So what about the flip side that being the worst advice you've been given, because again, I'm

sure you've gotten some of that too. Is there anything that you've heard over the years that that you recognize right away as being horrible advice or maybe you took the advice and then down the road learned was not such a great suggestion. You know, we get critiqued a lot, and being in the public eye, you're going to get that, so you you take each with a grain of salt. But so many people have gotten things that they tell you should be doing, and the majority of it is

not the best of advice. You know, it may be a novice that hasn't been hunting very very long. You know, if it's you know, if it's uh, Don Kiski, Lelakowski, j Gregory, Mark Drury. Uh. You know, LEVI, those guys know what the hell they're talking about. So when they when they say something, you really do want to listen and you want to go, okay, thank you. I appreciate that.

But boy, beyond that, if you start getting critique from the average hunter, and I'm not trying to dismiss any of it, because some of those guys are really good archers, but you gotta kind of take it with a grain of salt and say, hey, what works for me? What what really is helpful for me and my scenario in my situation, and because we have so many different scenarios, tree stand, ground blind, elevated blind, you know, it's you never know where we're gonna be sitting. You better be prepared.

And I think preparation has got a lot to do with that. I sit down and I practice all the time because oftentimes we're sitting on a chair and a ground line, or we'll be sitting on a chair in an elevator, lind or we'll be sitting down. I'll sit down and shoot in my tree stand because you can heal your back against the tree trunk, and you're just a lot more a lot more solid. Now when you're

sitting down, it limits you. You know, he hed better be either in front of you or moving around on one side of you, because the other side you're not gonna be able to get a shot. Then you gotta get up, and you gotta move. You gotta twist your body all the way around one eight. So it's about knowing where the deer are gonna be and about knowing what trails they might be on. But you know, preparation

is so important. And we've had some bad advice that we get that on a regular basis via email, and we thank each and every one of them for their advice. But I can't come out with one specifically. Yeah, like you said, there's there's a whole lot of examples of pull from I'm sure. Yeah, I gotta ask you this, Uh, Terry zoom out. I guess zooming out here a little bit.

If I were to look back on my past kind of tough year that I mentioned at the top, shooting was a big part of it, but tied to that, I think was also expectations or pressure or something that ramped up and probably led to some of the shooting issues and also led to a little bit at periods

kind of losing some of the joy of things. I've heard from a number of other people, not just people that kind of work in this world like we do, but even just die hard deer hunters that love it so much that spends so much time that's it's their obsession.

They sink so much time and money and energy into it that they too have developed these expectations and these pressures on themselves, and they've found themselves, you know, on November seven, during what's supposed to be the best time of the white tailed year, but instead they're miserable because something's not going right, or because something went wrong, or they they haven't filled their tag, or their buddies have all killed giants and they can't, or whatever the thing is,

or someone critique their buck on Instagram, or who knows what it could be these days. Um, I think this is something that I'm beginning to hear more and more often from folks. Have do you have any thoughts on dealing with those types of issues. Have you ever experienced that yourself, have the expectations of the pressures or what if the people think or anything like that. Does any of that resonate? Have you dealt with that? Do you have any thoughts or lessons on how to work through

that kind of thing? You know, it's funny you ask that, because we we have that pressure each and every year, particularly in the outdoor industry, and you're you're expected to perform and you're expected to perform at a higher level because that's what you do and that's what you're you know, that's what your aspirations are. But man, oh man, going into a season, you know, we target certain deer because you know, number one, they've got to be mature anymore.

And then and there's no perfect science to that determining whether there are five and as sticks and a half seven and a half. Sometimes you can make mistakes and you don't even realize you did. But you know, we're going to target a certain deer going into the season, and if you just don't seem and you don't get an opportunity, you know you're not going to kill him obviously, uh. And then you're only as good as the area that you hunt, or you're only as good as the spot

that you're hunting. You can't kill a two hundy if you don't have a two hunty. It's just that simple. If if your dear top out in the mid one forties or one fifties and you're you're after a deer like that, that's that's just it. If you kill that deer, you should be extremely happy that you killed a hundred inch deer. Hundred deer if that's what your territory, that's what your neck of the woods, or that's what your area provides. And I think are in the story as

a whole. Back when we started, hell, you didn't see, you didn't know what anybody shot. If you know, there was a few television shows between uh Massioake and you know, it wasn't as readily available as it is now. With digital media, you can find out instantaneously what people are killing and how big they are. And and I do believe that puts added pressure on everyone nationwide because we all want to kill a big deer, and we all

want to, you know, enjoy it with our buddies. And and when your buddies are killing deer and you're not, man, that's a that's a sick feeling. I mean, you go, why can't I I can't even get a sniffle one of you. I can't even see one. What's the problem here?

What's wrong with me? Why? What am I doing? So I don't know how you would get past that, other than to say that, because we've been doing it for so long, and we've had a number of different team members over the years, some guys will go through a tough season for a year or two, and then by golly, the next year, all of sudden, they're sitting on top. So it's a psychic, cyclic event. Some years are gonna

be better than others. I think some years fall in line with the rut in different states a little bit better, with different moon phases and all those things. So some guys are gonna be blessed and some guys are not. And it's it's not uncommon to see that guy that historically has struggled, all of a sudden to kill a giant one year, and you have to stay after it. You gotta be persistent, you can't give up, and somehow work through those low spots. Uh. It's a matter of

enjoying what the other guy killed. You know, if your buddy killed a one eighty, you've gotta be happy for him, you know, jealous as you may be and say, damn, I wish tied to kill that, dear, you still have to be happy for the guy that's really worked hard and uh and put all the time and the effort into it. So uh, it's not easy. I know the pressure is on us each and every year it's a big chess match. And some years we we win. It's checkmates,

some years we don't. Do you do you? I think you kind of alluded to this, But do you even feel that way personally yourself? Sometimes, even though you've killed so many great deer, do you still find yourselves sometimes sitting there and end of October and seemingly everyone in the team's killed a buck and you haven't seen a shooter in eight weeks or something, and what's your self talk? Look like? What's your how do you? How do you

psyche yourself back up? Is it just simply reminding yourself of the past like you just mentioned, Well, it would always seem that no matter what I killed, Mark would kill one ten or fifteen inches bigger, just seriously, and his his he had spots were there early season was usually good. He'd have he'd had big deer on you know, biologic non typical clover early season, and he'd bopped one

right out of the gate. So then the pressure was on immediately, you know, and you're like, okay, my farm, because we have so much agg around us, it doesn't get good until middle of October, end of October, once the crops start coming out. So I was always a late harder at the All Star break, if you will,

and then I would be a strong finisher. But man, it's a tough bill to swallow when he gets two or three good ones under his belt right right out of the gate, and you're trying to keep up, you know, So there's always pressure in and we pull for each other no matter what. I'm always I'm always thankful when he kills a couple of good ones right off the bat, you know, early season, because it takes a little bit of pressure off as far as you know, filling the

shows and coming up with enough content. But it's added pressure and the fact that I'm trying to, you know, find a big deer and and get on one and kill it, because he's always got a big one somewhere, some some ways, some shape or form. He's got a giant on some little bitty fifty acre parcel that he got permission on or something, you know, and he and he went in, he carved out of food plot and that's one eight shows up. You know. So some people, right,

they're always always in the money. A harsh shoe, four leaf clover, rabbits foot, your name, and he's got he's got all that stuff his pocket, his backpack. But he's he's just he's at another level, much like Leila Kosky and some of those other guys. He marks just one hell of a white tail hunter. He really is tremendous shot too, you know, but we don't go his mrs are his errand shots. We just never have. He's somes more control in the editor's box. Huh. We gotta get

that change. Oh yeah, oh yes, absolutely yeah. Those shows get sometimes get proofed when I'm out of town or on the farm or something. Yeah. Funny how that happens. Yeah, um, but it's all good, it's all fun. I will say We've been really very very blessed and very fortunate. The most humbling experience in the world is to grow up in the outdoor industry and be blessed enough to harvest some really really good deer and and trying to help

someone else learn. You know, that's what our biggest aspiration. And we have not talked about deer cast, but that was the whole reason we we came up with the app in deer cast. Yeah, so what's what's new a deer Cast? I know you guys have updated this year. What's uh, what should we be looking for? Wow? It's it's just really really been fun. It's been a labor of love, if you will. We've been two years. We

were supposed to release this last year. We didn't get it done, but it did give us time to do some additional testing with the beta series and we think we've got it down now where it's it's pretty dog on sweet. We added mapping to the original deer Cast. Obviously is the movement predictor, which tells you, you know, the when the white tails are more most likely to be up on their feet and moving during daylight hours. And then in addition to that, it's got deer cash Track,

which helps you find your dear, recover your animal. It's it's got a news feed, it's got our entire library and and the weather data. So we added mapping to that, and with that mapping, we added rain stations. Where you can put a rain station on your food plot and it will tell you the actually the precipt that you have that fallen. It's a it's a an estimated you

will until after the precept falls. You know, if it says you're gonna get three tents of rain, and then after it has time to update once the rain has fallen, you know you may have got four tents. You may go. But it's awfully nice knowing when you got rain coming, you know what the next seventy two looks like, and when you can get your food plots in and then if you've gotten rain, you know, you say, oh man, you may live four hours from your farm or two hours and you go, hell, I got an inch of

rain on my farm, which is awesome. So it's got that. It's also got wind check. The wind check is phenomenal. It tells you you know what wind direction it will be coming from. It's got a cent cone on there. That sent tone changes speed and it changes size depending on the speed and the velocity of the wind. You know, one to five is one cone. Uh six to ten is another cone, tend to fifteen and so on and

so forth. Those sent streams change and the uh, it's just really trying to show you, you know, exactly what's happening when you're sitting in a tree stand. And then there's some information that goes along with each and every one on the more the sweet spot is, you know, I like to hunt seven eight mill on our winds. Mark likes to hunt ten to eleven mile on our winds. So, uh, it's very very informative when it comes to that sense dream and and let's face it, a deer list and

eyes by their nose. It's got parcel data, it's got radar, it's got just every single thing you would want as a white tail hunter. And you know, a food plot area. Uh, it will pass track, it's got distances. Every single thing you might need as a white tailed guy is in this mapping features and and man oh man, we we just strongly feel like people are going to enjoy it. And I think the more they use it, the more

they're gonna want to use it. Very cool and still deer cast track, You've got that tool on there as well too, right, Yes, you know, Mark, everybody tells you how to kill them, but nobody tells you how to find them. We said, you know, what let's try and help people find them. And we we've taken a number and I don't know how many hundreds of deer hits that we've got on there. But we've got two other guys that will tell you a little bit about it. One is tracker John Inglecan and the other one is

uh Bobby Culberson down at Tara Wildlife. Those guys are

tremendous trackers. And they two and Mark and I too, both give you some insight on how long to wait, what vitals you might have hit, what arteries you may have hit, uh you know, and when you hit this artery let's say living or long or or double lung or heart lung or our our guts and and liver, how long you need to wait for that dear to expire, and how far they may have went, and and what other arteries you might have cut so and and there's a three D model in there that will go uh

quartering to broadside, quartering away, so that you can kind of say, oh, he was he was quartering to me just slightly, So where did my arrow go through there? And that three D model will kind of give you an idea what you would have hit on that particular shot. So all of those are cashed away in there and you can pull them up and take a look at him and and say, you know what, I was gonna give him thirty minutes, I need to give him four hours. Or I was gonna give him four hours, I need

to give him eight. So it's, uh, it's extremely informational when it comes to those hits. Yeah, I really like that. That's that's coming hand you a couple of times, just even when it's something you feel like, pretty confident, I know what I should do in this situation. It's always nice to have a second opinion, and you know, sometimes it's too late at night to call a friend or whatever, and being able to go on there and see how it went down for for one of the guys in

your team and see your thoughts on it. I've found that pretty pretty nice to have so nice, nicely done good stuff, you know, And because of the things are nowadays, Mark, I don't know why everyone isn't trying to self film, because we have the luxury of watching the hit over and over and over and over, and some of them will watch, you know, three or four dozen times to say, you know, as he dead, or should we give you more time? Or what did we hit? Blah blah blah

blah blah. But a guy sitting in a tree by himself and makes a shot, oftentimes you're not a hundred percent certain, And I'd say more and more times than not, you're not exactly certain where you hit him and how he was standing, whether it was he quartering too, was he broad? But boy, if if you have the opportunity or the luxury to watch it on camera, there is no no better feeling than to watch it over and over and over and then make that decision. But you know,

it's it's easy, too easy to guess. But if you have the opportunity to do some self filming, then I would highly encourage it. Yeah, so so helpful. So the last question for you, Terry, what what's in store for you this season? Do you are you feeling good about what's coming up? Is there a special deer you're helping to get your eyes on this year? What what's Deer

Season two going to look like? For you? Well? Last year I felt really really good about things because we had you know, a number of different bucks, several up and comers and so on and so forth. And killed a good one last year, killed two good ones last year on my farm, and so did Forest, my farm manager. Forest bad and killed a couple of good ones there on the farm. So we had a really really banner year last year. But with that being said, none of

them made it through. There was a lot of a lot of deer that got taken in and around my farm and and they just disappeared. So we really don't have anything to hunt this year. I'm hoping something shows up other than a few doughs, we'll be we'll be dope shooting for a while. But with that said, I've got a couple of good ones over in Illinois, same deer I've been hunting in Illinois for the last three years.

Haven't got them dead, and uh, we'll we'll go after them and try to harvest one or two of those if we get the opportunity. We killed a really good deer over there last year and shot it with a crossbow mission crossbow, and uh, I know we catch a lot of grief over that too. Uh. We didn't talk about this at all. I'm getting to a point in

with my age. I tore a rotator, uh a couple of years ago and I'm I milked my way through it last year, kind of nursed it along, but it's it's really really bad this year, and I'm too big a sissy to go get it fixed. So everybody I've talked to said it's the worst pain they've ever had when they got their rotator operated on. So I've been I can't. You can't put a belt on, you can't, you know, get your seat belts, you can't brush your teeth, you can't call mer hair, you know. It's one of

those deals. It's like a butcher knife in your shoulders. So that's an issue. But that's why. That's why God made crossbows. I didn't believe. So that's the crossbows working pretty well for you. Then now, yes, those things, my goodness, they've made them now that they're just and we'll probably get hammered because we talked about it. But for those that that need it and have shoulder issues, my golly, it's they're fun to shoot, and we really really thoroughly

enjoy We like this target. Practicing with it, I mean, Forest and I spent a great much like our firearms and much like the archery tackle, we spend a lot of time shooting a crossbow and have become very very proficient in it there too. We know what our roundhouse is.

We're not gonna take any errand shots at a hundred yards eighty yards and a lot of guys can, a lot of guys will, but we try to keep it, you know, reasonable, and we know if they're in our round house, there's a pretty good chance we're going to be successful. And we're very very adamant about that as well. But boy are they fun to shoot. I don't know if you've ever tinkered with one, but man, they're blast. Yeah. Yeah.

My my dad has some eyesight issues and because of that, he you know, he tried shooting a regular compombo and just really struggled with that. So a crossbow ended up being great for him because there's the scope and he can really see things well through that, and so that was a game change for him and it lets him you know, participate in archery season now, which is you know, a godsend. So it's been it's been fun to shoot

those and help him with that. And I'll never crap on crossbows because there's there's a lot of people that wouldn't be able to get outside and enjoy hunting the way we do if they didn't have a tool like that. So I'm all, I'm all for people being able to get out there and enjoy it however they need to. Well, I shot seventy two pounds for years and years and years, and then as I started get a little older, I dropped down to sixty seven, and then sixty four, and

then sixty two and then fifty nine, fifty seven. I shot fifty three last year with a bad shoulder, and I got it back the other day and I'm pulling forty nine pounds and I can't draw it. It hurts so so bad. I literally cannot draw it forty nine. So I'm gonna drop it down to forty five and then forty two, and I probably won't go lower than that. But if I can't draw it, I can't draw it, you know. So I'll be shooting across bow if I if I have to. But in regardless, it is what

it is. Is you can start to get a little older, things change and as people find that out, they go, you know what, I'm not what I once was, and it wasn't much to begin with. So you have to come to the come to the reckoning and say there's certain things you just gotta do. Now. If I go get it operated on in the off season and get it fixed, I might be able to get it back. But so I'm right now, I can't draw forty nine pounds,

which is pretty sad, to be honest. And I was pulling fifty three last year, killed too, killed the biggest year of my life last year fifty three pounds. So well. I I hope that whether it's with a kam Pombo or crossed. Oh, Terry, I hope a big one shows up in missouriphor you. I hope the Illinois buck finally meets his maker. And uh, I hope you have a great season, and likewise, I hope you do too. I love your stuff. I always have. I've always enjoyed visiting

with with you. I really really am always enthralled with everything you do. I hope you continue hunting with your dad, and I hope he kills a monster with the crossbowt I hope so too. Thank you Terry for for making time to do this. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Anytime you need anything, just give me a holler, all right, And that is a rap big things. Again to Terry for speaking with us. I hope you guys

enjoyed this one. As we just mentioned. Everything they're doing over with the deer Cast app is is really great. I personally enjoy it. I follow it. I've got the app.

The YouTube channels packed with great content to so check that out and um stay tuned, f y. I speaking of YouTube, a new show that I filmed last year for meat Eater will be launching soon on the meat Eater YouTube channel, So if you're not already, head on over and subscribe to the meat Eater YouTube channel to see my wild season and the crazy adventures I went on. It should be launching sometime in September, so keep an

eye out for that. And in the meantime, we've got our new waterfowl show, duck Lure is airing right now. There's a fishing show, The Canadian Angle that new episodes are coming up right now and lots more to come

over the fall. So man, if you got a little free time, there's no shortage of great hunting and fishing content out there for you to check out, so you can find it in the Mediator YouTube channel at the meat eat dot com Follow me on Instagram at wired to Hunt, or just get outside, shoot your bow and forget all this internet ship. Get better at shooting, get ready for a great hunting season. You guys are the best. Thanks for tuning in, and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.