Ep. 511: First Deer Stories on the Back 40 with Evan Barrett, Forest Wagoner, and Hank Forester

We're gonna get you updated on what's happened with the Back forty, and then we're gonna dive into a couple of great stories about two new hunters that I had the privilege of helping mentor on their first successful deer hunts. So joining me today, we've got those two aforementioned new hunters, Forrest Wagner and Evan Barrett. And then we also have Hank Forrester, the director of Hunting at the National Deer Association, who's the mastermind behind this field to fork mentorship program

that I was doing all this through. So why should you listen to this? Well, if you're a new hunter, I'm thinking this one's going to inspire you. You're gonna hear from two folks who likely went through the exact same things that you are, who struggle to figure things out, who sought out help, and who ultimately had a pretty life changing experience. I think this conversation is gonna give you some hope. I think it's gonna excite you. I

think it's I think it's going to motivate you. So if that's you, this is absolutely an episode you want to listen to. But on the flip side, if you're an experienced deer hunter, I think this is still going to be one. Maybe it's even more important for you, because at least for me, hearing Evan and Forrest stories,

it was it was a breath of fresh air. It was it was exactly what I needed after a long season of worrying about all the minutia of deer hunting, you know, obsessing over specific deer or strategies or my goals or what's going well, what's not going well, all that kind of stuff that you get wrapped up when you're so so into this thing. These guys helped kind of lift me out of that fog. And remember, I don't know remember why we do this stuff in the

first place. There their stories were just um god, they were just really really cool. It was it was, it just kind of filled me with good feelings, I guess, for lack of a better word, And you know what, these days, uh, we need that kind of stuff sometimes. So that's that's my pitch and short, I think, uh, I think at least what I felt was a sense of new energy after this conversation, new excitement to get

out hunting myself and help other people. And if that sounds good to you, I think you'll enjoy this one. So without further ado, why don't get into it, here's my chat with Evan, Forrest and Hank. All right, so now hear me on the show is Hank Forrest, or

Forrest Wagner, and Evan Barrett. We've got the Field to Fork crew back together again, and uh, I'm very excited to get to kind of wax nostalgic on a couple of really fun weekends we had over the course of the past I don't know, six seven months, I guess has been so thank you each and every one of you for for making time here to jump back on. Um. I want to jump right into stuff though, rather than the pleasantries. I'm just gonna jump into the story if you don't mind, And Hank, you are the one I

want to jump into this with. First, we'll get to Evan and Forrest and you guys stories about what led you to wanting to learn to hunt and what led you to the field of fork program. But Hank, you and me kicked off well, heck, I don't know when this was. I think it was late December twenty twenty.

We hunted together on the Back forty and we did a podcast Asked afterwards with Nick CEO over at the NBA, and we talked about the plan for the Back forty, how we were donating it to the National Deer Association, the hopes and dreams for what would happen on the property in the months and years to come, you know, the plan to try to use this place as a you know, as a as a training ground for new hunters, as a place to help teach people about hunting, to

demonstrate different things about hunting and land management and all that kind of stuff. And we kind of left that conversation that day. I think we talked in January one then at that point about you know, this is what we hope is going to happen. This is what we dream will happen someday. Now stuff has actually happened. So I'm hoping you can help us, you know, filling the gas between then and now, at least up until one

hunt started. And tell me from your perspective, coming off of that conversation with the three of us and then you going out on your own, like what happened in the intervening months leading up to anybody stepping foot on the property. What kind of things had to be organized? What was the story internally for you guys at the NBA to figure out, you know, how are we going to manage this place? What are we gonna do with this place? What were those next steps? Absolutely thanks for

having me Mark. Um. You know, I wish I would have listened to that podcast before we got on here today so I can remember exactly what we had said. But I think we followed the the battle plan fairly closely. Um. We of course said that we were going to reach out and form a committee, a volunteer committee, um, to oversee the property. You know, some local some state representatives for India from Michigan, and of course a few of

our staff members. But we we did form a habitat committee and kind of a property management committee made up of a diverse group of guys UM in the area. And UM they've really taken the lead on UM, you know, day to day oversight of the property, property improvements and really prepping it for the hunt. UM. You know, of course there were some logistic things to figure out, but we did in fact write a full management plan for the property. UM. My colleague Matt Ross helped a lot

with that from the Conservation Department. But of course a lot of our volunteers on the committee UM, either UM you know, professionally or UM just as a passion do a lot of land management, habitat management in the local area, many long time India members and many from the Southeast Michigan branch was which is kind of local to that area.

So UM we came out in March and you were gracious to join us again and give them a kind of a personal tour of the back forty, which I know really jezz them up, and they really appreciated that, and that's kind of how they formulated the plan. They they wanted to you know, maximize the potential to back forty four wildlife and and diverse wildlife, but also maximize the opportunity for new hunters to harvest their first year and of course carry on the legacy that both you

and meat either you know, began. And so that was a lot of what went into our our zoom discussions to kind of create this management plan. But a quick highlight, UM, I mean, I guess I should just go, you know, through their names real quick, just to thank them for their service. But we had two India interns that actually stayed on and uh they were interns the semester that we kind of took over management that March, and they

stayed on full year. And and you know, people have seen them in the photos from the back forty and and they helped the mentor the new hunters. I'm sure

they'll come up. But Sam Hog and Xavier Austin really helped us out um in an intern capassing later as a volunteer, but kind of the leads with the Southeastern Michigan branch of Corey Francis and John Neville, Drew Gilby UM and from kind of a state level UM Chad Feeling and Eric Schnell helped out a lot and so just briefly, I'll just say that, you know, we planted acres of switch glut grass. They maintained the nine acres

of food plots and added line and fertilize their seed. Um. They added four acres of native prairie seed with forbes and wildflowers, two acres of short grass. They planted an American chestnut orchard. Um that we're hoping we will get FDA approval for like a genetically modified American chestnut that will not be susceptible to the blight and actually create kind of a um, you know, a foster area for

you know, chestnuts to come back in that part of Michigan. Um. You know, we're working on some water, added great a gait and stuff like that. We added birdhouses to the property. U five multrily cell cameras, just um, you name it. They put in a lot of work. They checked on the bees for you a lot of spraying and planning and even in and I think April or May, um Xavier our interns that never killed a turkey and they took him out there and he got the first game

animal off the back party under our management of turkey. Yeah, you know, it's really Uh, it's you read through that so quickly, it's easy to overlook. Oh yeah, they did a bunch of stuff like it. It sounds like, oh so easy. They planted nine acres of this, they planted twenty acres of that, They planned an acre of this. That is a ton of work. I mean, those folks put in a lot of time and they weren't getting paid for it. I mean, these are people just volunteering.

So I want to second what you said as far as giving those volunteers kudos to to really really make a point that that was a tremendous gift of their time and energy and their tools and their equipment and all that stuff. Um, it was. It was really cool to get to watch that from a far and get updates and see what was happening, and just to see what, you know, what we began really take an awesome step forward. Um. So it's it's a citing from my perspective to see

that property continue to flourish and continue to see it. Uh, I mean, it really is morphing into what we dreamed it would be someday. You know, it started out it's just this kind of raw piece of dirt and the hope was like, man, someday this might be a wildlife paradise and it's sure trending that direction. Um, I mean it really is. So it's a great work to you and all the guys there that were doing all that. Um,

that was that was exciting to see. So from there, Hank, Habitat work was done in the spring and in the summer, and then in late August we had our first educational event for the Field to Fork program. Um, can you quickly set the stage for what you know, the what was the game plan for that? And then I want to get Evan and Forced to kind of introduce themselves and tell us a little bit more about them. But but real quick, Hank, from your perspective, what was in

your mind? What was your hopes for this thing we're going to put on in August? Sure? So, um, you know, we kind of discussed it with the group of both the Habitat and you know, people interested in helping us with the programmatic aspect of the field the forts on the back forty Um, So we decided that we wanted to do what we kind of term a community based events, so like a long time you know, a filled the Fort program that happened over the course of a season,

and most of ours do. But sometimes, you know, the actual organized event will be condensed into like a four day weekend or something, and then you know they're hopefully be uh you know, follow up opportunities to get honey, but it's it's kind of not in a package deal.

But we wanted because of the opportunity, you know, a branch and volunteers and and and Michigan has always been a strong state for the National Beer Association, but we wanted to incorporate the local community, recruit local new hunters, and really try to just build on that kind of community and local field. So we went out and we um, you know, we recruited hunters via a Google survey. We

survey potential new hunters. We also had to recruit more mentors, uh, you know, to facilitate these hunts, and also hosts properties because uh, you know, the back forty is a great piece of property, but we we really can only hunt about four people at a time on the property, so we wanted to um, you know, be able to take a few more hunters and that in the program. And we ended up selecting ten hunters for our first year. Um, and we set about kind of training them and giving

them the background they need to be successful. So we offer all of our field to fort participants free online hunter education and free access to our deer hunting one on one course with hunter ad dot com. And so they kind of do the initial you know, prerequisite at home education. And then we brought them in in September for a training day before the season started. Excuse me, august Um, I guess it was before the season started

late August Um. We utilized a local Michigan d in our range for the shooting portion, uh cook some venison mills. You know, they had gotten a lot of the dear biology and and that kind of stuff from the online courses. They even got, you know, the hunter education courses. But we like to reiterate safety and a few other things. But I'd say the highlight of the event was the

property tour that you you helped us lead. Yes, So we brought everybody out to the property and then I kind of walked everyone through to see all the most important locations in the farm. And throughout that time I tried to share as much as I thought might be relevant about you know, how dear use the property, how different things in the property might be representative of stuff that you could see out on your own hunting on

public land or somewhere else. Kind of talk through hunt setups and mindset and things I'm thinking about when I'm out there and I don't know, try to try to be as helpful and and use this landscape as as a sort of a template for a whole bunch of different deer hunting discussions. So that that's that's what that

looked like from my perspective. Let's hear from the guys though, that were actually learning so Forced, Evan, Let's let's get a little bit of what led you to this point, um, Forced, Can you kick me off here with a little bit about what led you to want to win a deer hunt and how you ended up making your way to get involved here with the Field of Port program. Yeah,

absolutely so. Um. It pretty much started out with growing up fishing all the time and seeing some friends as I was a kid, going hunting with their family and friends and being curious about that. And as years went on, UM, I was never really invited or or had enough interest to move forward, um to really pursue it. Um, mostly because you know, when you're young, you're looking for an adults day. Hey let's go hunting, you know, but that

just never worked. Doubt and for fishing for many years and getting more and more into other types of fishing, starting to get surrounded by people who, um can now say hey, have you ever killed his ear? It's like, well, no, like, well you should do that. Sometimes it's like okay, how do I do that? And I say, well, you've got to find a mentor, and well, like okay, and then I just kind of sit there and wait for an invitation and nothing happens, and I'm like okay. And UM.

Then about five years ago, I UM, when I discovered the Meat Eater podcasts and the Meat Eater episodes and seeing, um, the the culture of cooking and conservation and everything that was lining right up with my main interests at the time was was you know, fly fishing and fishing and rivers, and um, when that became a huge passion of my life. Conservation is natural, like this is so beautiful. I want to take care of this forever for generations to come.

And then um, seeing the meat Eater platform being exposed to that and seeing oh there's this isn't just about harvesting deer or getting large antlers. There is a giant conservation effort behind it, and that was was a big part of it to me. And then the top or was you can make wild game taste good, and you know you can. You can have you know, at the most complete lifestyle surrounding it if you want to, and

if not, that's okay too. There's plenty of options to get outside and experience your your state or your you know, local natural resources UM without having the need to. I feel like you have to go on a vacation every six months somewhere UM in order to enjoy yourself and reconnect and that type of thing. So at that point, after doing some networking over the past few years, asking you know, start with friends, then I started with friends of friends, co workers, co workers friends, and I did.

I did get a few people interested to talk to me and would answer my questions about equipment and places to go, our resources to check out, but UM just had a few closed doors where I could tell that there's still no invitation and you know, after all the reading and resources online, it's it's like, Okay, I get it. They want that time for themselves and you know I could respect that, and UM, I just did not could not find an avenue to get out in the field.

So it was it was very tempting to go afield myself. But um, the field dressing, I think is is where, Um, you know, as many videos as you watch, or books as you read, or diagrams that you study, there's still if there's a worst case scenario, I don't want to be in that worst case scenario and feel so So from there, how did you discover the field of fork program? How did that eventually fall in your lap? Um? I was just on my phone on Instagram looking through things,

and UM memory serves correct. I believe it was spring last year or maybe early summer. Um, I believe it was the first light add in my in my Instagram feed with just I believe it was field of fork or backboarding too fork or there's something along that line. And I'm like, oh wow, this is okay, this is something where oh adult lead or for adults to learn how to harvest deer for their own consumption. Okay, yeah,

that's exactly what I want. I'm not looking for somebody to teach me how to shoot a big buck or anything like that. I just want to get out there and get food clicked on that UM and that began the whole process with engaging with the n p A and the forms, filling up the forms, and the application process, and you know, Hank just kind of took it from there with us, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is happening. And um, I have four small kids at home and I know that hunting takes a lot

of time. And I'm like, oh no, did I just do something I'm I can't handle with when the time and I told my wife says She's like okay, and I said, are you all right? I think she said, yes, I know you've been wanting to do this for years. Go for it. I'm like, oh, And then just you know, I've been on cloud nine ever since that that UM, that invitation to have the opportunity. Yeah, that's that's so cool. Uh Well, I want I want to dive into a bunch more of that, but but first let's get evans

Oudt of the story. Evan, can you can you give us your version? Yeah? Oh great? UM, A lot of it follows you know what what forests described, but I think the you know what sort of drew me in initially was my passion for food. I've I've spent most of my life cooking UM for a good portion of it professionally, but you know, now more more as a hobby.

And you know, I got used to and and almost you know, tired of the same chicken, pork and beet right, And so I felt I could come very far with with the typical meats that you can you can get at a supermarket, and then you know, push that further and start you know, sourcing those better and and doing better. But you know, at the same time, like there was this just wide variety out there that was different and

exotic and was going to be much more challenging. And and so that is what sort of drew me in initially UM and and I had this this sort of feeling or calling or what what happened. But well before I knew about UM meat eater and and that there was a community out there that that was hunting and fishing for food. And and what shocked me was the caliber, the caliber of of cuisine and the caliber of cooking and thoughtfulness that went into the harvest, and that went

into the execution of the raw product. And I was hooked immediately. I mean that was it. Like I don't think I'd ever fit into a mold so perfectly. And and and finding a community out there that that was inspired and and was was into taking wild game and and you know, harvesting your own proteins and and doing

that thing. And then and also foraging and all these other you know, all these other ingredients sourcing methods and then applying like really really excellent, really really um high technique. I mean it was just it was fascinating. Um and so that was a huge, huge draw. And then and

then as it went further, they started with birds. Um. You know, I did what I what I feel is a very typical Michigan thing where you get a shotgun, you get a pump, you get a pump acts and shotgun because you can change the barrels, you can use it for her own and you can use it for you know, it's just it holds a lot of purpose and uh And and so I started I started by by hunting birds and doing upland I just fell in love with upland and uh and it just kept kind

of growing from there. You know, I wanted to after hunting peasants. I wanted to hunt grouse, and after grouse, you know, I wanted to move on to the to the next thing. And eventually it was you know, turkeys, and then it was deer, and and uh, I had been successful. I had been successful, um, through reading and watching videos and doing a lot of research on my own and and in some cases getting guys and and

and you know, different methods. But I was unsuccessful and put in a lot of effort, more effort into deer hunting and than than really any other type of hunting that I had tried up until that point. And and it was very uh, it's very disheartening at a certain point where it was it was you know, it was very challenging, and I was just I was started to, you know, feel conflicted about it, and and uh um.

And it was when my sister had, like, you know, but she hadn't even you know, heard of the back four Tell you know TV show at the time YouTube show at the time. Um. Of course by this point, I'm you know, deep in it. I'm listening to the podcasts and and uh and watching the shows, and so she sends over this, like I think it was she got an email from the Michigan Department Natural Resources, and and it was just like, Hey, does this looks like something to be interested in doing. It looks like a

mentorship for adult hunters for deer. And I was like, do you have any idea what this is? Like? Do you have any any clue? Just fine, we need to sign up for this. And and lucky for us, we we both we were both accepted. Um and it just turned up to be just just an unbelievable parparence. So from there then okay, that's that's that's it's great to get both of your stories and hear what lads you there, and and it's it's it's encouraging to hear just how

spot on this whole program sounded like. Once you discovered it, you were like, Oh, this is the thing I've been waiting for forever. Uh what I'm what I'm curious about. The next is that first experience, so that you know, the day you went out and went on the range and you got to eat some venison with folks and you met the mentors and we came out to the back forward and I watched you guys around. What was your take after that? So that was your first real

experience with the program. UM, now you kind of have an idea of what you're in for. UM, I guess maybe Evan will keep going. U. Since we're just heard from me, what was your thoughts on how that went? You know, was that a helpful day? Was the whole process up to that point what you're hoping? UM? Curious about that? Yeah? No, So there was great communication leading up to it. Uh as at Tank pointed out, they they gave us a ton of resources so that we can do a bunch of homework because you had a

excure of people that were coming to this program. I had some hunting experience, I had hunting license. I was familiar with firearms and crossbows at the time, and others, you know, we're not. So it was it was. It was well managed for sort of like all of the range of people that were that we're going to be coming, and I thought that there was a good level of communicating sort of prapping people and knowing what expectations were coming. Net.

So it was it was. Although it was, you know, it was a bit intimidating, it was not in any way it was handled well enough that it was not intimidating. At all to such that you wouldn't want to show up. You were excited when you got there. You know, I think that I think that there was any intimidation there. It's just that you you you know, you wanted to be president of Mind and you know, and uh and you didn't want to you know, um screw anything type

of thing. And so but the way that they handled you from the time you arrived, there wasn't an opportunity to screw anything up. It was very very very well

managed um introductions all around. It was great to see a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds who were there for a lot of different reasons, and I think that really started to bring down the level of, you know, of any sort of caution that anybody may have had, because people come to this program and come to hunting in different ways and from different backgrounds, and so to hear the stories and was was really

great and to get to know each other. And then it was orchestrated in a very safe manner, so you know, people who may have never handled a firearm or across or anything like that, we're we're treated very very well. And again, so the longer you were there, the more that it became more comfortable. And then from there, Uh, you know, Hank will not brag about how good his cooking is, but his cooking and his thoughts is unbelievable,

and so don't listen to him when when he does. Um, that was really fun because then it was like it was like a sneak peek into into the future. Uh. And then the of course the the tour. Uh. And and you're showing up for that, um, Forrest and I almost famous, And that was cool. Uh. We we held each other up. And no, I mean just the fact that that you know that everyone was was was like there to put their time in. I mean, the mentors were there to put the time into. The NBA was there,

and then you were there. I mean it just kept on like reinforcing just how special this was and and

and what it meant and what kind of commitment it meant. Uh. And so then as a mentee, and I think I can speak for the mentees, it was like, wow, this is this is amazing and and and we um, you know, we're we're gonna we're gonna be handled well, like this is this is gonna go well because you're you know again you're you're you're in a new circumstance around new people, and you're you're ultimately out there, uh to do something that a lot of people have learned over many years,

and we're trying to shore that up into a very small period of time. But it just kept feeling better every single minute with with how well it was was

put together. That's awesome. What's your what was your take force? Yeah, same same thing along the organization of the whole event myself and I was too amazed by the other mentees in the backgrounds of all of us have different reasons and it was really neat to see the broad spectrum um And yeah, there was that same amount of apprehension about is this you know, am I in the right area? And my way out of my lane here? And and

that kind of thing. But once the introductions and hearing everybody's um story, which takes a little bit of courage because you just meet all of these strangers and you you're standing around and it's Okay, why do you want

to do this? And so it's I think that's kind of the beginning of the journey, is everybody kind of kind of announcing out loud, you know, what there, what with their hopes and dreams are for this and UM yeah, that was that was the big part to kind of instantly kind of break the ice in a way and understand that we all have a common a common goal and and you know, the conversations and and everything just

started to flow so well after that. But for for me, I think, UM, you know, just the time UM spent to take the mentees, to coordinate with the UM with the mentors and UM with with the rain in UM was was way beyond my expectations. UM. The amount of the number of mentor mentors that were available to help people like me who are not as familiar with rifles and crossbows, UM was was more than expected as well.

It was you know, I felt like it was one on one and if there was any any question, anything needed, any apprehension, it was it was very well addressed. And because for me it is UM, you know, if you're gonna take the shot, you wanted to be the ethical kills you don't want to you know, you want to

be as best as you as you can be. And there's a little bit of for me, I feel like, can I really learn to shoot a rifle and a crossbow and in one day and then you know, actually ethically kill a deer, you know, the next time we meet up. That was the big thing. And like I said, with one on one instruction with the rifles and crossbow, the mentors really where helped you affirm that no, this is good. You know. You you take a few shots and you're like, oh, that's not on. We're exactly where

I was Amy like, that's a dead deer. I was like, okay, all right, that's a dead deer. That's all I used to hear. You know, because you could I suppose you could go out, you could join a gun range, you could buy a rifle. You could you know, take all your safety courses and everything and show up at a rifle by or I'm sorry I had arranged by yourself and do that. But how long would somebody spend trying to hit a bullseye from fifty yards out and not

accomplish that and feel like they can't go afield? So that was a big confidence boost, a big primer um that was that was really well executed. Yeah, it was you know in mind too, just just getting too yeah, getting to the point when we were there on the property and getting to meet all you guys and here a little bit about each of your stories, and and

then walking around answering questions, sharing all those things. I remember having a moment we were standing on I think it would have been like in the back five back field five, maybe somewhere back there, and remember looking back and you know, when you're on those pills, you can look back down towards the swamp and it's kind of a pretty good wide view because of the topography there.

Remember kind of looking over and I saw these ten new hunters are aspiring hunters and ten mentors, and this property with all these habitat improvements that we've been doing over the years, and the blinds we put up, and I had this kind of flash where you kind of see, like the movie montage reel of all the things that led up to this, and it was like one of those one of those weird times in life where you step out of yourself just a little bit and can see it for what it is. And I had that's

just like just wow that it actually happened. We actually have done something that maybe matters, Like maybe this is a really cool thing that actually came to the others and gonna help people. And here's exhibit A of it

actually coming to fruition. And uh, that was. That was exciting to see, an encouraging um to see that you know, what began as a inkling of an idea sitting in my office and then led to a whole bunch of debating and talking and uh arguing and brainstorming, you know, in conference rooms four years ago, which then led to you know, just a whole lot of crazy things happening. So um, so it was it was wild to see

this next step all coming to life. And then it even got wilder when we fast forward another month or so to the first hunt on the property, and interestingly, Forrest was paired to hunt with me that weekend. And then I think your kids got sick something like that. Yeah, yep, yep, yeah, so sick kids kept forced from getting to go. Yeah. I decided, you know, well that was that was one of the toughest things, one of the toughest choices I ever had to had to come to come to peace with.

And uh, you know, maybe it's a lot of fisherman and hunters and hunters I don't know what agree with me or not, but I'm a big fan of having really good what I called good juju, like good harma. And so you know, if if I'm if I'm skipping out of work to go fishing, I'm probably not going to kids in fist, you know. Um, But this opportunity was huge, but it took me. It took me about twenty four hours to really come to that right decision. And that was could call in calling the sick the

sickness and be like you, I can't do it. I got it. And and that's a good thing, right because if I probably would have went, I probably been driving. They're probably not going to shoot be because I leave my family at home. Yeah, it all worked out in the end. And uh, and since Forest couldn't go, Evan you got to join me, and uh we had a pretty darn cool first hunt on the back Ford, do you want to tell the story we have? I guess

quickly before you do that. The first hunt we're gonna have was gonna be an early Antler Lists season hunt. So we're gonna bring all these folks out, some folks will each each mentee was paired with a mentor and then we split up from there as far as where we would go I think there was three or four pairs of us that we're gonna hunt in the back forty different corners of the farm, and then other groups of folks went to some other properties that we had

access to in the general region. Um so you and me, Evan were paired together for that trip. Talk to me about how you're feeling leading me into it and everything that happened. Let's let's let's hear this uh wild story. Yeah, yeah, so it was. It was. It was pretty uh it was it was a lot uh to to put it,

you know, to put it in those terms. I mean, you know, you show up and again, you know, it's just being a part of this is is already a big, big deal in itself, and then you know, about ten minutes after arriving, you know, it was like, oh hey, uh you're you're cool, You're with Mark, You're good with that, right, we're gonna film you and it's your first time and yeah, so it was kind of like oh okay, cool, um but a little maybe a little bit take along. It

really didn't. I mean, everyone was you know, again, it

was very well organized. Uh So it just you know, it took a little time and then uh, and that was really our first time like meeting and you know, and and you know, you were great and and just really down to earth and Mark, our camera guy, was just terrific and and he you know, he was just just a blast of be with and so the three of us really sort of hit it off well, I think early, and that that made a big difference and really brought down that it went from you know, feeling

uh so large and intense and and it kind of boiled down to like, hey, let's go hunt like this. This feels like this feels like a hunt, you know, and so um, it was cool to have that experience where we got the tour with you the property before because we we sort of had an idea the layout of the layout of land and the layout and and

where we'd be and what we'd be doing. Um and uh and I picked up a few tricks from you even just that you know, even that that day I carry nose jammer with me now everywhere a goo and so so that was cool and um, and then you know, the thought process of between how we enter uh to not you know, interfere we had to be careful because we had so many hunters going out to different parts of the property that we had to be very strategic there.

So there were lessons picked up and um and and also like the you know, I I think that part of what I struggled with was truly understanding the impact of sense and you know, a lot of what you read and listen to and watch is you know, focus around like very intelligent, very you know, knowledgeable, mature, fear um And and that's not exactly what I'm going for. Uh, you know, I'm I'm looking to to fill freezers. And so there's a there's a margin there that that we

could get away with. And I thought that was kind of an interesting thing to learn as well. Um, I don't think it's a great margin, but but it wasn't. Uh, it wasn't so you didn't have to drop out of a helicopter basically, is what I'm getting at, um and to get back there. And so those were lessons learned and we but we still took a long way to get to the blind. It was an elevated blind. Um when we got in it, we realized there was no

carpet in it. So we we were doing a quick check in and and and figuring out how we can position ourselves so we wouldn't make a lot of noise if we had to turn um and then we got right into it. We got right into you know, running through the scenarios and which which ended up being you know, the most critical part and and and and what you know, what made that so critical and elevated the level, uh was the fact that we could easily make noise if

we turned a certain way or um drop something. So it was a total uh check and balance of Okay, this is the scenario, this is the way the DearS something, What are we gonna do? Where's where's mark going to go? Where's the other marking to go? Where are you gonna go? How you know? Can you see? Can you turned? Can you even shoulder the firearms? Um? And So there were

several angles. I think there was really three angles in which we could you know, have a pretty decent chance of not only seeing dear but get a shot at them and uh and and we had just kind of walked through that and I think we figured out really good positions for each one. And how long were we talking?

Like fifteen minutes after that? Yeah, I feel like I feel like it was a ten or fifteen minute kind of thing and then bam, yes, we just started, uh the kind of okay, you know, the business part of the stunt, like let's have a conversation, let's chat and and and then your face just turned like I my

back was to this part of the blind. You're facing out that window, um, looking onto this this trail that butts up to some woods about forty five fifty yards out, and you're it just stopped in your and you raise your hand and you just point, You're like, that's here, that's and I was like, I was kind of like, well, you know, because it's like five o'clock in the afternoon at this point, and earlier than that, right exactly, it was super early in the afternoon, and uh so we figured,

you know, we had a couple of hours to just sit around and and and chit chat. And so all of the sudden it was this game on and this dough,

this nice mature dough, was cruising down this trail. And the trail, uh was a warrant trail that led right in front of our blind and then cut through this little um you know this this this basically, if for lack of a better term of funnel between you know, so the wood line where we were kind of butted up to, and then a woodline on the other side near the honey of bowl, and there was this there was a food source right there, and that's that's where

she was headed. She was cruising fat and so the first move was to just like you know, turn without spooking her, without too much movement, without too much sound. Um. But you know, her head was up. She was krugan, So you know, we had to be very cautious and careful about not making two sudden of a movement. And she came right up to the blind I mean, we're in an elevative line. She came up within five yards

of it. And that's when she decided to okay, sums up, kind of spooked, turned and and and ran up the ran back up the trail. And at this point I'm thinking, all right, that was cool. Like, man, there's tons of deer out here, like we're done for you know, for a minute, and you're like, get your gun up, you know, get in position. She's gonna stop. She's gonna get right to the top of that hill and stop. And as if like you could like see that in the future,

that's exactly what she did. She she went in forty yards back up the trail, broadside stop and she stopped for so long that I got the gun mounted, I got set up, I got my sticks on, I mean everything, and and it seemed like an eternity, although I'm sure in hindsight it wasn't that long. But um, it was just picture perfect. And you said, you said, if you're comfortable, take the shot, and uh, I said, I'm gonna take the shot. And the shot rang, and that parts kind

of a blur for me. I really relied on you and Mark to tell me like like did it look good? Like did it look like you know it? And um, and it was, I mean, and after that it was just just shitters and shakes and emotions and I mean just just utter disbelief, Like I don't know that I've ever had that much disbelief all at once. It was pretty It was pretty crazy, even for me. I remember just being I was shaking. I was shaking. I was

so excited it was. That was awesome and uh, and so well fast forward, you know, I don't know, I can't remember how long we waited. We didn't wait too terribly long, because um, we felt good about the hit. And we went back there and she ran I don't know, fifty some something like that, fifty yards something on those lines, and we found it right there in the honey hole. What was that like walking up to that deer and

seeing that you'd actually did this thing? It was, it was It was a huge relief in so many ways. I mean, there was so much pressure built up to this point by prior hunt and you know, um, the hours in the in the dollars that were invested, um, and the time that was put in you know, selfishly my own, but then by others as well. I mean there was you know, it just felt it all of

a sudden felt like it was doable. It all of a sudden felt like this this happens, and this can happen, and this is a real thing, and and and it's and and it's right there and and and there was this very um she was she was pretty, I mean, she was very she was a very like regal and majestic animal and and uh and it didn't feel um as as sad. I don't know, like you know, there's there's a there's a part of it that's you know

the part that there's it's the harvest. Can you know, I didn't know how I feel about that, um, because I hadn't done it, and I'm an animal lover and and I know we all are, and and we get into the sport. But I didn't know how exactly how that would feel. But it it didn't feel. Um. It was more grateful than any sort of sadness than it was. Um. It was just an overwhelming experience and and I was basically speechless. And I think back to it often and fondly.

Um and and it was just it was inspiring and it was just and and honestly, it was fun. It was it was a lot. It was fun. It was so much. It was so much fun. It was it was energetic. It was real energy there. That's that's ah, that's really well said. I mean it was it was all those things, even for me, which is what's kind of crazy and pretty darn cool about this pursuit, is that I've been doing this for thirty years and getting to just be with someone experiencing those things for the

first time was was so incredibly rewarding. And it just feels it's so yeah, for lack of a better term, cool to to see someone getting to step into this world and and get to experience these things that I found so rewarding and profound and you know, uh so satisfied. So it was just it was an awesome, awesome day. It was so cool to see it work out for you. And you know, even though that hunt specifically went really

really fast. You know, he said, you had been trying for a long time, You've been working hard to try to figure these things out yourself, and so it felt like this really great, ah, moment of a fruition where all that work finally did pay off. And uh, and I was just very happy for you, Evan, and uh and great shooting too. Oh yeah, no, I mean it was it was awesome. I mean all three of us were freaking out. I mean it was it was truly like you know, you're feeling Mark dealing to Miami. They

were all super genuine. I mean it was we had set out to do something and and and I mean it must have been a great feeling to uh, to to to see the back forty do what the back forty you know, was meant to do as well, and and so quickly, yeah, crazy, and then and then you were able to go back out the next morning with a different set of men tours and reinvent the wheel all over again. You did it two days in a row. Yeah,

that was nuts. Yeah, we we I got to go out with the xavier Um the next morning and and uh and of course at this point, like you know, pressures off, like you know, the feelings is, you know, like, hey, I'm here, let's do it. Let's go see what we see. And we we get out there well before first light. We get up in a different elevated box line and nothing. I mean, we were overlooking the field and and uh, we're having a good time. We're you know, we're we're

chatting it up and and we're looking around. But you know, we didn't have a great line of sight where we were. We were looking over some really tall grass and he says, he goes, you know, I really think that if they come, they're gonna come down this. They're gonna come down this area over here, which was a trail that was cut there for for power you know, foam holes and power

lines and things like that. And so he kind of knew it well enough to know that if anything was gonna happen, it's gonna happen over that way, and it was about sixty five yards so uh, once it got you know, you know, light enough that you could kind of see what you were doing in there, we ran. We did the same thing. We ran through the motions like, okay, you know, unlikely scenario, they come here, but still it's still a lane. Let's try it, let's try it, let's

try it. And thank god we did, because you know, a little bit of fatigue were setting in about nine thirty. You know, we're kind of like you know, people are, you know, we're starting to communicate with others and talking about when we're gonna wrap it up. And all of a sudden, right down that trip, just like he thought, you know, right down that trailer, we see a head pop out and it's a it's a line of dough and another mature dough really pretty much equal in size

to the one the day before. And he threw out a call, you know, he he gave her a you know, a map to to stop her. She stopped roadside, and while he was doing that, I was getting set up. And because we we had the plan and played it went quickly, even faster than the day prior, and got a shot on her and she went. You know, I went to probably twenty thirty yards. Hank came out, Um, Pink came out to help with that one, and uh and it was just I just couldn't, I mean again,

just just under utter disbelief. Two deer in two days. Not bad, my friend, not that at all. So so let's let's jump over to you force and fast. For a couple of months. You had to put your aspirations on hold because of the because of family obligations, which is a good call and a good man move, so kudos to you. Um. But we get to December and we hosted another hunt for anyone who wanted to come out and try again, or anyone like in your case, where you hadn't mail to hunt or hadn't maimal to

get a deer yet. Um, same kind of thing. Everyone came came out, a bunch of mentors came out. We all split up to hunt in different places. Group of us went to different locations on the back forty Um, because I guess I got first DIBs on locations. I picked the honey hoole again for us, And that's what we're gonna do. So Forest, can you can you do for us what Evan just did, kind of fill us in on how you're feeling leading up to the hunt. Can you walk us through what happened and in your

perspective on on that whole experience. Yeah, So, leading up to the hunts, it was um, uh typical mid December Michigan day, super overcast, some snow on the ground, kind of melting. Um, you know in between that thirty two and thirty three mark where I would like to see some snow rather than some freezing rain. And you know the weather alone was um a little bit of already a mental challenge for me thinking, um about going through in my mind about am I gonna get super cold?

Is this? Um? You know, am I going to be shivering when I try and take the shot? And and that kind of thing, and running through scenarios in my head, Um what questions should I ask? And that type of thing.

And once we once we all met up, and uh, Mark, you and I when we just started walking, you just started pressing me for everything and giving the heads up this is what we're gonna do, just like Evan was talking about before, and getting the you know, starting to walk to the blind and the heart rate just started to kind of elevate hair with excitement, and um, you know, I kind of felt like it was like when you stood on a roller coaster and you're just when you

when you get in the seat, and then all of a sudden, you're just start climbing like up. I mean like you're at cedar point or something and you're like, okay, I'm not turning back now, I'm not walking away, and here we go. So um, yeah I got into the blind. It was still kind of missing. Um you know, there was ice on the on the on the ladder steps. Uh, yeah it was. And um, you know, it wasn't really

bright out, real low clouds. Um. And I'm thinking, oh man, it might get dark before before our shooting hours or even are approached, you know. And um, but from there once he started talking us through the if the deer comes from this direction and that direction, that's what we're gonna do. Okay, now let's practice and do you feel comfortable and you know that kind of thing, and and then um, just the initials sit down and holding the rifle and looking out. Um was a pretty surreal experience.

Like here I am, I'm you know, officially doing it in my mind, and um, yeah, that was that was a huge it's so of it sounds it was a very big experience because there's a reflection of everything that had come up to that point. And um, so we sat there and talked about where there could be showing up from. And I don't know, I think an hour went by and nothing happened, and I think another hour went by and nothing happened, and we entered the our

prime time and I think, um, shooting hours ended. I think around five thirty one, I believe, and um, I think right around uh five, right right around five o'clock. I start thinking to myself, okay, all right. I started talking through thoughts and had like this, probably I could that happens. That's okay. I would like to say that's okay. That kind of thay and and just and hearing from Mark and the other guys in general, like it can happen back, it can happen with snap of the things.

And you know that that was the optimism, you know, my mind I was combating the negative thoughts with and so we were just sitting there and it was it was just I think five tennis and then Mark, I believe you yeah, you spotted the first yeer. Oh there's a deer way asked over the first hill, and I believe it was. Yeah, it was out of range. There were two of them, and we moved into position right and put a scope. I believe it was. I know

it was at least one dough. I don't know if it was you If you remember there was a spike in a dell and they were they were like one hard to get to position that we'd had to practice, like I would have to get out of my chair, moved to the other side of the blind, you'd have to move forward. But like you said, we'd practice like, okay, if this scenario happens, we've got to do this whole thing,

and we figured it out. M hmm. Yeah, that was That was crucial because you were sitting to the right of me and that was the window I needed to shoot out of. And without practicing that, I mean, something kind of dropped or a scuffle or some kind of

noise potentially ruined it. But so yeah, get the scope on the dough and you ranged ranged her, and I believe it was just out a hundred yards a little bit out of my comfort zone for you know, pretty much being a novice marksman, if you will, And and um, I believe they just kind of started quartering away and just kind of fading, walking back further and further in the opposite direction, you know. And from there it was like, okay, well,

all right, there there was the opportunity. That's that's cool. I'm happy, I'm good, you know. And um, I believe Mark cameraman brought his camera back in and Mark, I think you were just I don't know, I just think something or but not looking out and I was just on the scope and all of a sudden, from the right, Um, it's just it was like Christmas morning I saw. It's

like that first image of presence. It was like ten those just started walking very very gracefully right right from the other side of the field, and um, I was just like, oh now this is the first sure And it was I feel like it was half the distance. It was twice as close as the as the first year I saw. And I'm like, okay, here we go. And now it was when I talked about the Mither coasters, like now I'm just like I feel like I could

just scream, but I can't. You gotta focus now, you know, and um that was that was the image that I play almost every day since. Um in my mind that and um seeing those you're walking so slowly and with I don't know, five seven ten minutes left of shooting time,

and um key. Then on the first I think there are two or three that first rolled in and then uh, Wanda Kian on the largest dough, and I think it was like the second or third one, and then they started to overlap after getting the scope, Um, the bigger of the two or three, and then it's like, okay, we're just waiting, and then I think there's another five six seven more. Uh. What appeared to me was very like larger mature dough. And I'm like, oh man, I just gotta wait for this to break up and and

go from there. And Mark, you are talking me through it, and you know all the minor details like hey, do you you like talk to hammer? No? Not yet, okay, and then what's confirming that we were both on the same page with the range and the exact dere Um I was gonna take a shot at you know, it was I just remember, you know, taking the breath, and I

remember still being nervous but not shaking. Nervous and I was surprised by that and and took the shot and I remember actually seeing seeing the dope get hit and I thought it was too high. Um, it looked like it's the shot hit the spines potentially. UM. But luckily having market cameraman there to kind of replay and see, you know, possibly upper upper long shot, you know, we should be okay and that kind of thing. And UM.

From there it was yeah, all the pure adrenaline rush and and shaking and not being able to stop smiling and yeah, that was that was you know, just you see on all the TV shows and whatnot and hear about UM. I was unsure about how I would feel, um taking the shot UM on an animal that I, you know, I love and like I haven't mentioned being animal lover and that kind of thing, but taking the lifetile different thing. I'm going to feel about that? And amazingly enough I did not. I did not have those

kinds of thoughts for feelings, UM. And I kind of attribute that maybe to just human nature, I don't know, for for survival or whatnot. But yeah, so that was that was the shot and UM decide what we waited there for. I don't know. I cannot remember how long we would feel like it was about forty five minutes or so an hour, and I know I remember it was it was definitely dark, like the headlamps throughout everything

like that. Um, other mentors came over to our field and began the tracking process, and UM, that was something that I didn't I didn't um really think through previous that that would be actually kind of a challenge And another thing later in retrospect I'm really grateful for because, UM, when I when I read or try and educate myself about checking deer, it's like, oh, yeah, it's fall the blood, okay, you know, just mark reeve then and just follow it.

But then when we started to track the deer and finding the blood and then finding the next drop and finding the next drop, and then we hit kind of a wall there and even though it was only like

ten minutes, it was that feeling was not fun. That was that was yeah, that's so that that's when that's when, UM, I started to feel concerned, but not like oh I might not find the deer, but almost a concern like uh, a responsibility almost like you you let somebody down almost, And from there I'm like, oh my gosh, there's there's the I think that was the first time to me

of the connection was formed with the animal. And then walking up and finding the blood trail again and then um uh seeing seeing the deer, seeing the dough and discovering it was was just absolutely amazing. I felt attached to the deer. I felt like it was almost like my pet. And then there I had that melancholy thought of but I just I just took it to life. But the beauty of the deer and um and just

the whole the whole process of the finding. It was a sense of relief and now I felt like, um, kind of I've completed the process and now I want to do whatever it takes to take the ultimate care of this of this self. Right. So yeah, from there, um, that was that was when I think a switch was flipped, you know, kind of like having a kid or getting married or any any major accomplishment or just something that

triggers you to change your mindset. What did you think about the field dressing process You mentioned that is one of the things before getting to go on the mentor experience that was you know, was concerning to you. You wondered if you'd be able to do it, if you know how to you can figure it out. How difficult it would be. Um, you know we we walked through that together. Um, and you completed the job. How did

that go? Anyway? So I was right, that was the part of the whole process that really kind of waunched me. I'm the whole you know, seeking mentors and whatnot. And I was I'm the kind of person that gets kind of queasy around um, animals being dissected. And I didn't do well in biology class. I had to stand in the hall because I could handle it. And so and that was like my big, my big, Okay, this is where I'm I'm confronting. I'm going I'm leaving my comfort

zone and I'm gonna start cutting into this animal. And I just hope I don't throw up or make make a fool out of itself. And um, you know when people would say it's not as bad as you think, it was not as bad as I thought. You know, the initial cut into the skin mark, you shown me exactly where to start and um, and just start making the incision and whatnot. Um. I was I was amazed at how how clean and um simple of a process

that it was. And um, but I saw that here in my mind like when I get to the stomach part and stuff starts falling out everywhere, am I going to lose it? And um, I don't know if it was the adrenaline or not, but I kind of feel like it was just that connection, Like I'm it didn't even cross my mind cutting across the belly, going through getting everything out, making cuts you know, um in certain areas that you're pointing to do. Um was a lot

lot easier than I thought. I think I was expecting like blood to be gushing out everywhere, or you know, arteries with blood like flattering everywhere and things. But it's not that at all. And that was a big That was a big relief for me, and um it went quick as than I thought, and um it was. It was a big sense of accomplishment and a big confidence booster for Okay I I I definitely feel like I can do this on my own now, And that was the big thing, like can I do this on my own?

And I felt like I had that after leaving that even though Markie helped me with so much on where and how it was getting my hands in there and physically doing it. That said that, that gave me the confidence to say that, yeah, I can do something own. To do it, well, I need to refer to some things and how like what cuts and where to make it again. Yeah, but I can. I can look that up and they say, oh, yeah, okay, that's what I

have to do. But I'm not apprehensive about going to field and harvesting a deer because I might get i don't know, gross out or screw up something, um with the dressing. That would make for a really bad experience. Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad to hear you feel that way now after having done it, and I think your experience and your

apprehensiveness leading into it was Yeah, that's not uncommon. And so to your point, it's you just got to get in there and do it once and then once you've crossed that bridge, it's a whole lot easier to to walk it again in the future. Um. So, so what I want to know next is about what happens next

for both of you guys. But before we get to that, I want to kind of hit pause on your personal stories and and and put a little call to action here for anyone listening, who has found themselves in your shoes, Anyone who's listening, who has been intrigued by hunting, who's hunting curious, who who maybe has tried it and been getting started but it is struggling. Or maybe this is someone who's never done it ever before but kind of has this little voice in the back of their mind

that makes them think, man, I should try it. And somehow they stumbled on this podcast and they would love to get a chance to go through what you guys did. If there's anyone listening who's in the those shoes, Hank, my friend, can you drop in from your expert perspective where people can find these opportunities, how they can find these opportunities? Can you can you give us that right now rather than at the very end of the show.

Let's talk about that right now. Also, because I know, Hank, you might need to leave, and I want to make sure you get to say this before you do. Where can people just find this? Yeah, just Dear Association dot com slash ft um. You'll find my email on their Hank and Deer Association dot com. We also have Dear Association dot com slash new Hunter. And if they're a new hunter, it will um, you know, we asked it for their personal information, we can plot them on a map.

It'll send them some resources, most of them free, and advertise a couple paid ones, but it will put us on the map. And that's how we notify individuals of a new programs coming online or other opportunities around them. We really try to keep these programs states specific because of licensing and that kind of thing. UM, and we want to teach people how to hunt where they come from. So UM, if you'll go to any of those contact us,

fill out that New Hunter survey. UM. It just lets us figure out where you are and will will contact you with opportunities. We also have a mentor sign up for potential mentors out there if they're willing to mentor for us, and and it's built to do the same thing from the opposite side to connect those mentors with

new hunters and programs we have. So I appreciate that, mark UM, if you, if you'll allow me, I'd like to roll back a couple things before we move on to what's next for these guys, Just a few comments and stuff. UM. Well, first off, for us said something just a minute ago about having the confidence to continue. And really that's what it comes down to here. That's all we're doing is we're given these new hunters the confidence to realize that this is attainable and something that

they can bite off and chow. And that's really what's happened here. They've they've managed to be successful, which is great. They got their hands dirty, um, but it's really about just building that confidence. And and yes, the gutting is often a very daunting, monumental things that they need to figure out because you know, just like forests, a responsible person isn't gonna go out there and take that shot

if they can't take care of it. But lastly, just you know, answering the question that I am a hunter is just a confidence level. It's just saying that's something I can do and I'm gonna do it. And so coo to those guys, I hope, I hope we got you there. But there's there's a lot more to it. And and they told their stories, and they told about how they found the program and that stuff and the and their stories are not unique. I mean we I see hundreds of these every year and and and their

stories are very common. Um, you know, what you guys have done at Meat Either. There's been a lot of negative press about our three programs and sharing on social media recently, UM, and it's it's really sad, but you know what you've done at Meat Eater and the responsible approachable you know, just awesome view of hunting and that lifestyle just what both of them attested to, um, you know,

just a little while ago. And and that being on Netflix has offered entirely new generations and people who have never run into hunting in such a responsible and beautiful light, but they're seeing it on their TVs that, you know. And so it really is this Netflix effect that I think as we're seeing a little bit of growth and

hunting right now, not enough to celebrate. We've seen a lot of societal trends that are helping, but um, we've been able to find these new potential hunters through um, non traditional avenues and really break out of our traditional hunting spheres and circles and culture and that kind of stuff.

So that's a lot of what has happened here. I also want to say that you know, we've learned a lot from these new hunters, and that's something we didn't talk about I mean the first uh, the first evening on the back forty Um, I was sitting in my truck when you all shot you. That was the first year of this field the Ford program, but also the first year on the back for you and very fitting the year were the mentor. So it was exciting for

me just sitting in my truck in the parking lot. Um. But but you showed him how to clean the deer that night. We've got great photography we had. It was a lot of fun. Uh. You know, we had that camaraderie of deer camp, even just as a group out there in the field and meeting up after the hunt. Um. And you know, we can learn stuff from these new hunters. Evans.

Evan led the butchering demonstration the Sunday morning after he shot his second hear And believe me, I tried to put him somewhere that I didn't think even harvest the deer on Sunday. But he must just have good luck. But um, you know I helped him. But he's he's a chef. He knows how to break down the animals, and he he has skills that I don't have. So we can learn a lot and we can gain from

him taking these new hunters afield. And then lastly, I'll say that we had a culinary social after the December hunt and Evan cooked for the group. Um, so he's a better chef than I am. I appreciate the nice comments, but at the end of the day, we didn't bring somebody who didn't have something to offer back to us. And so, UM, we selected these candidates based off a lot of different reasons. And we we have a selection panel,

a group. I don't select them personally, UM, but we we we read through their profiles, their survey, UM answers, and we selected these candidates based on you know, a panel and voting. But UM, you know, we we debated this um Forest was like the prototypical candidate he founded on first flight social media. I mean, um showed up in a first light hat for our training day. I mean just you know, it's just an amazing candidate. And and then Edvan and his sister both appla it as

he alluded to. And you know, we're sitting there thinking, you know, one of them could mentor the other if we took one of them. And you know, we take adults because they can mentor for us. The next weekend. They can you can advocate and become better advocates for hunting than we ever can in their in their own circles and peer groups. So it just really there's a reason we do this, and it's the efficiency of the model.

But we decided to take both Evan and his sister because we decided, you know, Evan might not be able to teach us sister it's wrong too, or vice versa. If we if we took Emily, she might not be a good teacher. You know, like we've run into this with husband and wife pairs where like, god, can you imagine if you had to learn from your significant other, they might not be the best one. But we ended up you know, selecting these people for very different reasons.

But we get all that information on the front end, and uh, and we we try to make our best educated decision. But you know, um, Evan's gonna mentor for us next year. I hope for us will will still be a part of the program. But I mean, we we can take new hunters, take them a field. They can they can cook medicine better than we can. They can advocate for hunting better we can, and honestly, they can mentor the next weekend, or take their friends or

their uh you know, family kids whatever. I mean, Forest has four kids. I expect he'll take them a field in the future. And then, um, you know. Lastly, I'll just say that there was also follow up hunting opportunities and that's why we trained everyone on guns and crossbos as We've really encourage people to get back out on the property during the duration of the season outside of our kind of organized events, and I note a number

of hunters took advantage of that. Yeah, it was really cool to see all those different opportunities arise and see the group of people out there have this experience. And tell me this, Hank, I think of our hunters, all but one ended up killing, you know, having success killing their first year over the course of these two hunts. Am I right on that, that's correct. We finished the season nine for ten. Um, just we didn't get a success well, but I don't think that's how we judge success.

But but we did have nine out of ten hunters harvest their first year this fall. Yeah, that's that's pretty incredible. And the back forty, I think we we took four off the back forty. Does that sound right. I sat just three three to the first organized hunt won the second. Evan, you were out there as much as I was coming up from North Carolina. But I think just three off the Back forty this fall, and then I think there was a couple of opportunities misses. There's things like that,

So there was there was opportunities. I guess, Um, so point being, I might be biased, but you tell me if I'm wrong here. I feel like the Back forty provided. I feel like the Back forty was a great hosting around and training ground for these new hunters. Absolutely, I think that's been our tagline. Yeah. Sure, So so let's get back to YouTube that Evan and Forced. I'm curious to hear about your thoughts moving forward. Evan, where's your head been at since that experience? Um? Are you gonna

keep hunting? Have you kept hunting? What do you think the future holds for you when it comes to this this pursuit? Yeah, I will keep hunting. I have kept hunting. Um. And and on top of that, I'm I'm going to you know, develop more. Anybody who is interested in in my circles wants to hunt. Um, I'm gonna I'm gonna carry the carry the torch. So after after the September hunt, Um, Corey was kind enough to get my sister and I

back out on the backboard. E uh several times. Um, there was There's not been a point where I've been on the backboard counting that I haven't seen. Dear, I'm not getting like, you know, maybe not an opportunity for a shot every time, but we I've never not. You know what, It's unbelievable. You're you see deer every time and so um so they you know, he gave up some prime hunting time, I mean real prime hunting time to take us back out. Um, tain't kept following up

like got again Emily on a deer. Uh you know you've got too many, you know, we gotta get I'm your sister one, you know, just choking around and having a good time with it. And um so there you know, that was a lot of fun and I got a little bit of a taste of of what it was like that sort of be a mentor. It was much more about her hunts than my hunt, you know in

those times. Um. And then another trip out there. Uh, you know, Corey and I we went on a hunt, but but it ended up just being a training session on saddle, and I am I'm so comfortable and confident in a saddle that during the rut, I uh, I got up in a tree and I went out on my own a public land and private land. UM had some I got on deer the first time, like first time, huh, on my own, completely on my own, and without even scouting other than just the scouting UM and using on X.

I mean, I got out there. And the first very first hunt I saw, I saw deer, and I mean as all of these things, Oh my gosh, it was unbelievable. And and the and then the crescendo of of that trip was the final day I was deer hunting. Uh. I actually had uh an eight point buck come within fifteen yards of me. I never got a shot at him. He never showed me anything about his eyes and his antlers. But we had this really unbelievable, like hour and a half exchange where there was a field full of dos

in front of me. I was grunting, he was paring the woods to the ground. He was so angry that some other buck was out there with his dose. But he would not step out. He would not step out he just wouldn't do it. But it was. But I mean, you know, all of those things that we were taught and and we were told, I mean, you know, to be applied and and put into practice, and went from years of not seeing deer and putting in the same

amount of time in the same amount efforts. Um. So all of a sudden, you know, using sticks and being in the saddle, and being in a tree, and and and seeing deer on on most fits, and or even having an encounter with it with a true um, you know, with a true buck. And and so uh um, I'm hooked. I'm totally hucked. They're definitely turning back for me. Um and uh and and so I'm taking my sister and a buddy out turkey hunting. It'll be their first time

really going out on a turkey hunt. We're gonna do that. And and uh I've started dabbling in duck hunting last season and uh so you know we're figuring that out and and we're just gonna We're gonna continue to do I want to I want to look at get my niece and nephew out there. Um. And then just I've got a bunch of buddies that come from the hospitality and culinary side of things, all of us fish. But

they've they've expressed you know, uh, they've expressed interest. Um. But again, you know, like myself grouping the suburbs and and maybe didn't have the you know, the experience growing up. And and so now I feel confident enough that that you know, we can get out and we can we can do some stuff and and be talking to friends and at works and colleagues and and people have been just so gracious about opening up their their land to to let me hunt and to let others and it's

just it's, I don't know, it's like it really. I think it goes back to what Hank said about the confidence and once you have the competence, um, doors really start to open. So the biggest hurdle is certainly just getting started. But once once you're through that, it gets a lot easier. It does, and in some ways it

gets harder. But I think that the the initial I think the initial step is the hardest, you know, And and once you get through that, um, the confidence starts to set in and people people see that, and so uh um for to night, we're actually talking about this last night and we've coined ourselves the mentees of Mark. We're we're still we're still working out what the matching tattoos are gonna look like, but we're heading down the road. It's like something like, you know, your face like a

Joe Rogan type thing. We'll figure it out. We're looking up probably, but but yeah, we were we're playing in a hunt, you know, we're we're we're already uh playing on putting, putting our skills together and seeing what we can do. That is, uh, that is so cool, so cool to hear. Except for the tatoo part, I think that would be that sounds terrifying. Get my face on your shoulder. But outside of that, I'm excited to hear

all that. Uh so for sort of about what about from your perspective, what have your thoughts been in the days and weeks after that? In where do you think things are going to go from here? Yeah? So you know, immediately the next day after the hunt, it was, um, it was about two and a half hour drive from where I live from where Backboard he is and in West Michigan, and from there it was how do how do I get this thing processed? There's a processor in

the nearby town. But I don't want to some half hours back, you know too, But in have to to pick up a my process, dear, and UM, you know, that was another thing that I wasn't really expecting to have to kind of work through. UM was okay, I'm at I just I just harvested the deer. It's in the back of my car. I'm in a hotel room by myself. UM, it's late. What do I do tomorrow morning with this deer? You know? Um? Luckily Xavier Austin

gave me a recommendation to a processor. Back I'm in West Michigan, closer to where I live, and UM, bringing that deer to the processor, meeting the processor, UM, telling him about the experience, and it was just it was a feeling of elation still and almost like I don't I don't know how to describe it. It was just it was lingering, UM joy and um. You know. Immediately after that, it was it was how do I what's the best way to cook this? UM? Wonder how much

what my yield is gonna be? How much meat I'm gonna get? Um, is my wife's gonna like to eat venison? Or my kid's gonna like the venison, and so my mind shifted to kind of like the consuming part of it. And um, after getting the deer back um and bringing it home and um, I have the I had the processor keep the hide for me because I said, I you know, I know it's type flies, like the typ of splies. Is this to commemorate you know the events?

And like oh yeah. And I walked in with the with the boxes meat and my wife was there in the kitchen and I had the hide wrapped up in the back and she she had this big smile on her face and she went up and touched the high um on um on my shoulder and she's like, oh, that's such a great blanket. Did you get that for me? You know? This is the deer's Like okay, I'm good

with this. And I told her all about it, but it was it was a really neat feeling to have the kids come around and you're like, oh my god, dad shot it here there it is and have them see that and have have that um that additional like joy kind of come into life that this is a really cool thing, not just for me that you know, other people are are into it too, and so you know moving forward has ha cooked some things. Evan has helped me great that he knows so much about culinary thing.

So when I'm like, hey, they quick question on what's the port, what's the fat to meat ratio? If I want to do that, that kind of thing. And so we've been keeping in touch Evan and I through a bunch of text messages and then this last night, I think I had another cooking question for him as I'm getting ready to do the attended line meal, and um, I said, hey, can we just talk. Last night we thought for over an hour about what we're gonna do next.

So really really excited already again you know, for for um, for the next the next thing, and looking forward to giving back as working with the with the program again next fall and helping out we're needed and that kind of thing. So um, pretty much immediate next actions are kind of like buy the book, like, hey, let's start scouting, let's figure out what tools we need, let's start putting some dates out there, let's you know, and that kind of thing. So I think I think you guys kicked

this off. We're we're off and running. Yeah, I'm like a proud dad sitting over here just smiling from ear to ear. I gotta tell you, I mean it's you talked about that joy that's lingering. You know that you mentioned force, and I'm feeling the same thing over here. And I can't emphasize enough for anybody listening that is a current hunt. Two just how much fun it is to help other people in this kind of way. I mean, it's it's just as satisfying and exciting and um fulfilling

as being on the other side. So I thank you both for for taking a shot and taking a chance to pursue this thing. Thanks for the courage to explore this new pursuit, and and then for following through with it and sharing your experience now and for committing to to helping other people in the future. I just think it's it's incredible, and you have both helped re energize me and help remind me of why I do what

I do. So thank you, Thank you, Thank you and uh as as mentees of Mark as I as I mentioned back in December, and that it didn't pan out this year, but I do this and I will do this. As mentees of Mark, you are an exclusive club that does have invitations to future hunts on my properties I hunt here in Michigan. I'm gonna get a mentee group

hunt together. I think we should try to make it happen this year where we can all get out and hunt one of my spots that I still hunt, and uh see if we can all get back, get nostalgic about all of our early hunts together and uh and do it all over again. So let's make that happen. All right. That's awesome, awesome, thank you, thank you. Unbelievable. I'll do the food it it sounds good. Hank, do you have any final words you want to leave us with. I really don't. I think I think they've said it.

I mean, um, their testimonials are a lot more than um I could ever convey to anybody. But I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you being a part of the program. I'm glad we found you and and I appreciate you taking your time to tell your stories here. Absolutely. Thank you, Hank, all right, and of course Mark and the rest of the crew. We can't thank you enough. This wouldn't have happened without your generosity, So thank you. Well. You are all very very welcome. It's been it's been my pleasure.

It has been our pleasure. It's been a cliche to say, but it's been uh, it's been our privilege. It's been very very, very very cool. So with that, one thing I should say is we did film these hunts, as we alluded to, and we will be releasing this content in the coming months. I kind of forgot about that what's the game what's the game plan? Is this gonna be like what do you what are you putting together?

Can give you guys to be uh just you know, hit and mark the other mark you know, um no, no, But we wanted to uh, you know, kind of show the process. You know, we've we've done it before, but it was a unique opportunity and opportunity to kind of highlight a community based filled the fork and and so we wanted to document the program and tell and show what we've done and hopefully inspire others just like this,

uh this podcast, we hope though. So we're just gonna put out some summary content and uh and use some of the educational bits that we recorded in the in the you know, in betweens of the hunts. But we're looking forward to getting that content out and let in the world. See it very cool. I look forward to that as well. Forest and Hank appreciate you taking the time of your today. Let's all get together and chat again sometime soon, right, okay, yeah, thanks guys. All right,

and that is a rap. Thank you for tuning in. I'll just reiterate what Hank said. Please go to the National Deer Association website and find out more. If you want to become a participant in the field of fork program, you can be mentored by folks like we talked about today or on the flip side. If you want to be a mentor and there is the need for more people like you and I to help out, please do.

I tell you from my perspective as a mentor, it's one of the absolute best things I did last year and the year prior and the year prior to that. It's it's just as rewarding, if not more rewarding for us as the mentor. I'm telling you, I'm not both shitting you. You're gonna enjoy it, So go ahead and give a little time, give a day or two. I think you will absolutely not regret it. So check it out. Go to the National Deer Association website to learn more.

Thank you all for listening. I appreciate you, enjoy yourself, Stay safe out there, and until next time, stay wired to