"FEELING THORNY!" w/ LAUREN GUSSIS!

on our Patreon page. Um, it's down at the It was like one of the very first episodes we ever recorded. It's the very first episode with it is called Writing the Bipolar High with Brian Sofie in two seventeen. So just go if you if you're interested and you're like art and I need to be watching a narrative because Bachelorette is now not coming out until mid October. And if you're jones ing, you can join our Patreon. You can go on Bachelor in Paradise Australia season one, you

can listen along. And we're still doing new things. We're still doing Bachelor in Paradise bet Uh sorry Bachelortte New Zealand. We're doing Real Housewives of New York. So we're doing six episodes a month of new content and then there's all the old archives. And I gotta tell you the

Bachelor in Paradise, Australia one is fantastic. Um, we have another episode of Feeling Thorny, and I really appreciate everything that you guys have been reaching out with and I just wanted to say, we're gonna be back next week with a new episode. We're gonna be breaking down the Nick Vial Bachelor Best of Season with your boy Jerry Trainer and uh, your new fave Miles Gray, and we have Alison Rosen joining us, so that'll be really fun. And in the meantime, I'm gonna read two emails and

some of the reviews if you want to. And you guys, thank you so much everybody who's been ordering the book. Um, it comes out. It'll be almost a month from today. It comes out September twenty nine. And my goal is if I get on a New York Times missseller lists, I'm going to throw a show in my mom's yard in Rhode Island. I'm gonna make my brother let me do it, and I still have that offer that we uh.

I paired up with UM Premier Collectibles where you can get the hardcover book and you can get a signed book plate and you can get a little Miss Compton canvas tote, all for the price of just the book. It's the first two d and fifty people who ordered get that, and then the second two fifty just get the sign book plate. And then I have another special exciting thing I'll tell you at the end of this.

So here's some funny emails we got UM. This is from Nicole Richet and it's Houston's and a long lost Hello, dear art m Hi. I've been meeting to write you an email forever like over a year. But what prompted me to finally do it is because I have a mutual shared love for Houston's. I used to live in Boston. I went to the Hughes into Fante Hall all the time. They've since closed it, which is heartbreaking, but man, it was a good time. I'm not sure to remember me,

but we've actually met a few times before. Back in the nine two thousand, I was a casting assistant in l a and I worked for Mallie Finn Malle adored you and you were always on her list. Yeah, Mallie Finn, Yes, Mallie Finn. You came into the office several times for auditions. I mentioned you to a friend of mine Andrew Mudge, and um, you're always in nice and I followed your career and of course Instationable. I absolutely love your podcast. I've been listening to it for a few years. It

brings me a lot of joy. It makes me laugh so much, whether you're talking about the Bachelor franchise or life in general. It is fantastic. Thank you for being so open about your life and it's a blast to hear someone I kind of know. I know Quarantine has been rough for everyone, but you've been really a bright spot for me. Thank you for your honesty and humor. I just wanted to say you're doing a great job and I'm always rooting for you. I follow you on Instagram.

I love your post, especially dancing in the kitchen after getting highlights. Can we to keep listening. I'm halfway through the episode with Wells and it's a lot of fun. I hope you're well. Have a nice and thank you for being so fabulous. Sincerely, Nicole Riche Nicole, I just wanted to say and to all of our fans that email in Truly, it means so much to me. It's so like, I love this, I loved Molly fan, I love like I feel like we're all in this together.

I mean, look, as you know which from listening to me, this is a freaking journey and it takes a village, and even if it's like an audio virtual village, you guys are the sweetest, sweetest group of people around and I have felt all of your support personally over the last few years, and I hope you feel my support now because I've made it through some craziest things and I'm just telling you this this at some point in time,

we will get through this. This two shall pass. This two shall pass, and it may not be your best year ever, but you don't need to make it your worst. It's okay. You can still have a little bright spot. Here's one more email that to made me laugh so hard. This is called the subject is Mesnick and the Past

and the Passion Bucket. Rebecca Germano emailed us and she says, I recently high Art and Katie, Tanna and the rest of the Real Excepts group I recently said, listen to your fabulous Rocky tribute episode recapping the Jason Mesnick got three hours slog no ship that these are long man.

The new Rookie crew was on fire, but the discussion as to whether or not Jason Mesnick was attractive reminded me of a time in twenty Town when I was suffering through working at the Gap Let's not get into that in a Seattle suburb, my coworkers started freaking out because the bachelor was in the store. Not having watched the show at the time, I was shocked when I saw him, as he discussed he was one short, but

two he seemed to be exuding no sexual energy. So I was really confused as to why my female co workers were all a twitter. Given that Arden once proclaimed herself the chief Unich Inspector, which I don't remember but is incredible, she probably would have a better read on the situation, but I thought I would share those first

impressions during the episode. I kept waiting for art And to bring up one of the best tweet of the weeks ever, which happened on the Aread finale episode after Chris Harrison said it looked like Jason's passion boocket is full. The hero listener tweeted, passion book itt is what Jason calls his wife's asshole. Ah so good. I really listened to that episode of your podcast. I confirm I was remembering correctly, and I ended up bursting out laughing again

numerous times. It's so so freaking bunny. And if my voice wasn't burned out from doing a eight podcast today, it would sound like a heartier left. It's so funny to me. Paget and Aaron are amazing, as well as Art and Katie and Tanna. And the last thing Aaron said on the podcast was, you know, I like a good low hanging ball on my clavical. Now, whenever Jason has brought up on your show or your podcast, I

immediately think of Passion Bucket and the gap. You and your friends and really except this Rose crew are truly a goddamn delight, and the Mary Ship show you put out is a joy. The humor in it, in the words of the new Rookie Trio, makes me feel seen and heard and representation matters. I cannot wait to receive my copy of Little Miss Little Comptent, and please keep up the lord's work. This world of Ding Dong's needs it. Rebecca. Also, I would again once again like to shamelessly nominate myself

for the Listener episode that you have been teasing. Okay, you guys, it is next week. This is it. You guys officially have two days to email us. Okay, So this is coming out on Friday. We're going to decide on Sunday, whatever the next rookie episode is. We're going to have three guest fan fan co hosts that are gonna zoom in and do the podcast with us. So if you want to nominate yourself for a friend because people have been doing it, you've got two more days

to do it, okay. Um. Also, I gotta tell you, I asked you shamelessly. We're trying to get over a thousand likes on iTunes. I know it's dumb. It shouldn't matter. I agree with you. Sadly, people seem to care about it. So, um, here's the deal. You have been doing it and we appreciate it, and all of the like like numbers are going up, all the review numbers are going up, so like that is awesome. And so if you have it and you just go just go click click, go perfectly

a five star review. That's awesome. Go click the review thing And if you want to leave an actual review, Chef's Kiss They're so good, here we go. So here's a review. We only got one actual review, so if you want to be read, it's a pretty guaranteed thing that you're gonna be read if you leave us an actual review. This week five stars. Lori is my queen

by stay at home Dog Mom. This podcast is single handedly getting me through the pandemic arden undertake on the Bachelor franchise of the laughs that keep me from crying during this roller coaster of a year. Yes, honey, that's what we're here for. Although we have come to realize that we have little control over anything during this dumpster fire every year, this podcast is one of the few things that bring a small amount of consistency and routine

to my week. I find myself laughing out loud to her and her co hosts response, and I'm always in awe of Laurie's supreme historical knowledge of Bachelor Nation. This podcast is a gem of a show has protected my heart during troubled times, and We'll always have my rose stay at home Dog is a beautiful podcast review. Thank you so much. UM. So here we are, Here we are. I'm gonna give you an intro. I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you with one final exciting thing that's coming up.

We've been doing the in depth, intimate feeling thornis where we get to know people and this was inspired by me writing my book Little Miss Little Compton as comes out in a month. UM. We've done one with Rob Benedict. We did one with Um the star of Wrong Missy and Orange his new Black, Lauren Lattis. We did one with Wells Adams Um from the Bachelor franchise, and I'm really excited this one was I. I was so excited

to sit down with this person. UM, I don't. I was on this show on Netflix called Instaable for the last two seasons and it was the first time that I had a female showrunner. It was created by a woman. UM. Most of the directors were either women or gay men. UM. We had mostly female producers and it was such a pleasure.

It was so inspiring. I loved this woman so much. UM. I talked to today our creator and our showrunner and the brilliant writer Lauren Gusus and she wrote on Dexter I think for the entire run that it was on for like for like five six seven years. I mean, she's a terrific writer, and she's brave and she's fearless, and she was a fun boss and she unapologetically was a woman in charge in a way that was like a joy to be witness and fun to work for.

I always wanted to do a good job for her, and I always felt free and accepted enough to take chances and take risks. And I felt like if she picked you, she thought you were talented and she let you do your thing. And so you know, as a writer myself, um, it was really fun for me to sit down and pick the brain of somebody that you know, I get nervous when I pitched things. I contend to

doubt myself. I get my little weirdo social anxiety, and to talk to somebody that seemingly so effortlessly has just shown up for herself. And so I'm so excited for you guys to hear this and so much of me talking. But here's the final thing. I'm really excited about this. But um, we're doing kind of like a virtual book

party like a book release party, like a show. And it's the same place that we did the live UM Draft Picks the Dynasty Typewriter, which is such a cool theater, and they're doing all these virtual shows and so that means you can from any time zone you can come

to the show. And what's cool about it is five dollars, so you know, you don't have to fly in, you don't have to get a hotel like and even if it wasn't like COVID times, you know, this is a five dollar commitment and even if you're not available, the link is good for a full week afterwards, you can watch it. UM. So we're doing our show. It's gonna be me and Lauren Laz. It's a book party. I'm gonna do UM and it's before the book comes out,

like the weekend before. It's UM Saturday, September at five pm Pacific time. Uh, and it's gonna be me and Lauren Laciz. People can email in any questions and you can order a book through there where you can get a customized book plate. So if you want to give it as a gift to somebody and you want it written out to them, or if there's a certain like if you want it written out to yourself you can get if you buy it. If you order the book through you don't have to get a book. You can

just come for the show. But Skylight Books, which is a super cool bookstore in Los Angeles, is partnering with it, and you can get the book with a special like custom message, which is kind of fun. And so this is my book release party and I hope you guys will come. I'm sure we'll talk some Bachelor stuff. So that is um September at five pm. So much talking. Okay, we'll be back next week and breaking down um Nick File season with the Rookie. All right, you guys have

a good time. I'm sorry I chewed your ear off. I hope you guys are all doing okay. I hope you're all hanging in there. I hope everybody with kids it's back to school and it's still at home or not at home, or if you know, if you have any six loved ones or you're not doing well, like just know that your little friend Arden is just I'm sending you lots of love and I'm thinking about you, and I know everybody's doing the best. That they can

and um, I appreciate your time and your well wishes. Okay, bye, Welcome to Will You Accept This Rose? A production of I Heart Radio. You know what time it is. It's time for hard to get a little close and a little thorny. Woa, Wellton's gonna go one on one, gonna be hot, energy, fun convos are gonna be super real, and she wants to get with you and all the fields feeling thorny, feeling whoay, feeling thorny? We're not Marie? Yeah, Oh my god? Have you probably never heard this? I'm

an idiot. Oh my gosh, I made this So were you accepted me inviting you to my podcast and making you a little I'm gonna a close? Oh my god? Can you yeah? I commissioned, I had a vision. Oh my god, is it right? Oh my god, Oh my god, I can think you're so much. Oh my god. Welcome to a very special bonus podcast. If we accept this Rose, we're in our offshoot. Feeling thorny. Okay, my friend who is here has never heard that song and the look on her face, why, like I felt like I just

gave you the gaft. It was like half joy and half Wildest Comfort is exactly right. Well, when I had a vision for this, just a little backstory on this podcast, I'd never watch I didn't watch much reality TV. I'd never watched The Bachelor or anything, and like four years ago, I somebody made me watch it and I was like,

I'm not a garbage person. I have like better things to do, Dan Martin and and I watched it and I was like, oh my god, Like I don't watch sports or anything, but I became obsessed with like the gaming of it. And then I saw on Twitter that all of my favorite people like that, all these funny people watch it, and I was so I had this fever dream on a mountain in Vermont New Year's Eve, like sledding one year, and I was like, I need to make a podcast so I can talk about it

with people. And I feel like I finally had a hobby for the first time of my life. And so I commissioned. I hired Mark Rivers, this genius who writes for like adult swim and stuff. I was like, I need you to write me a song that feels like very white slash, like a homeless man is jumped out of a bush and like breathe on your neck and just on your feet, and I feel like he executed that nailed at Um, you are hearing the voice of

a person. And part of the reason I'm expanding the podcast right now, um is outside of the Bachelor franchise, is that I am a person with social anxiety who built this podcast, and I thought it was just going to be me sort of joking around about The Bachelor, and what I found is as a nervous, awkward human who seems an outgoing but it's actually like a super freak.

I've been able to get to know people, and I've had so much fun and it's been so good for me as a human being that I started taking more chances in life and eventually I sold a book, and um, this is leading up to my book. You preorder now on Amazon, little Miss Little Compton. But um, it's it's sort of I wanted to bring people in and a lot of my book is dealing with, um, you know, my parents married on a dare. They weren't dating, and they weren't you know, they were never a couple and

they stayed married for fifty years. And um, so my roadmap was a little bit off and so I wanted to bring people in who I respect and I admire and who I feel like live their lives very authentically and who might have also had sort of quirky roadmaps and just talked to them about themselves. So with me today, a long introduction. UM, as you know, I talked about it all the time. I'm on this show and stage of a lot Netflix, which is my favorite job I've

ever had. And I probably you've I talked about you actually a lot in the book, But UM, I I know, I really I've never been on a show. Um, I've never been on a show run by women or a woman. Um I've and I've just to you know, they always say like you can't it's hard to be it if you can't see it. And just like watching you navigate, birthing the show, defending the show, and then being the joy of like the captain of the show within my perspective, with like a strong but light touch, like it's yours,

but it's I feel like people have room to play. UM, and I just wanted to bring you on our creator, our showrunner, Lauren Guess. It's nice to you. It's true. Um, I feel like our show really has a lot of like just the seeds of the creation of it are it feels like you gave your voice to your inner teenager, like my inner A lot of stuff like my inner shames,

sort of like the shadow self. And I don't know, there's a lot of stuff in the show that I felt like when I say shadow self now in the Stay and Age, then I have to qualify that by saying it's things that probably I shouldn't have had shame about did, like what like the lgbt Q stuff. Clearly there's no shadow of that, but the shadow self was a part of me that felt like I needed to

keep that in the shadow. Well, I can also say from me growing up, you know, when I think about a lot of my friends who didn't come out till after college, like no one was out, There was no There was not one person out in my high school. There was one person in my high school, and I think they came out the year after I left. Guy or a girl. Guy, how did how did people treat him? I think fine. I think it was like not a secret,

so people were fine. But I can't tell you like most of my close group of friends came out, including my boyfriend by the way came out in somewhere or another after we left. It's an interesting thing just talking about shame. When I think about, you know, like when I when I wrote the proposal from my book, um

a lot of it. I think I think it was more negative, like I had my my dad was tough growing up them and like on the one handle, lot of my family was really fun, but like my dad is pretty nasty, and I think I had so much, like shame was such a huge part of my identity. I think I still struggle with it. It's sort of my default if I'm tired, if I'm not checking in

with people, like it just washes over me. But I recently literally recently, meaning in the last probably thirty six hours, had a therapist tell me that my relationship to shame, like the shame is the whole mansion in my life, Like it's a mansion. And she said, you need to make it a closet. And I said, perhaps not the best analogy considering my history. And literally she goes, if I was closer to you, I would poke you with my foot. Let's make it a condo instead of a

giant man. Um. Yeah, I honestly think and then I mean not to be super dark, but like just and I don't believe in accident. So they literally I've been trying to sell this book for years and the day that the offer came in was the day of my mom's funeral, which is so crazy. They were like, hope you're having a great week. It's like, not really. But do you say that though, because that's the thing, you

can say anything. But I was recently having a conversation with somebody about that, like the social norm of when someone says how are you, you don't really you're not really supposed to answer, and awkward it is really going on. So did you actually say you know what? When she

emailed me? And I think I was like dry. I think I was getting driven to her funeral and I, um, and I it's funny that you should say that, like so much of like you want to spare people like you don't want to like do it to them, you know, like they can catch it, you know. And so I was like, oh my god, so excited to work with you. Side note, funny thing you should not the greatest week? Um uh, you know, like my mom actually just died suddenly. And but I will say one of the gifts of that.

I feel like the book in a weird way, became more glass, half full and more about her, like she was the sort of sunshine and if my dad was like the shadows and shame. Um, but that has been It's interesting. A shame is not something I don't think I ever publicly talked about shame like, but it's something that I like they say like guilty, so you feel like you've done something wrong, but shame is like you

feel like who you are is wrong. And I truly felt like for years, where did you get the message? Like did you have a tough like I know very clearly where mine came from, Like do you have a clear person of shame or clear I was bullied as a kid, and everybody does the best thing can that's right, And the response a lot of time was like, well, what did you do right? And nothing? Nothing like my seven best friends dumped me two weeks before my bat Mitzvah when I was twelve, Like what did I do wrong?

Like I wasn't cool, the boys didn't like me. Isn't it just the worst thing? And like I didn't know who I mean? It was really so even just the question of like what did you do? Yeah, you're like kind of ingrained in me that like I was the bad guy, and I think that I frankly like sought out relationships repeatedly, not on purpose, basically where like I end up being the bad guy or I feel like the bad guy. It's a very comfortable place for me to be. It's so interesting how hard it is to

break that. Like, but that's one of the things I talked about, is like if I would like what I wish I knew, is that's why I would go in I would be like like that just thinking friends, mostly female friends, but then sometimes in dating that like I would have like fixed her upper Like if I could just cheer lead somebody the best, then like if they felt okay about themselves, then like we would be okay. And you just do it again and you watch these

paths about yourself. It's hard to put down, Like it's hard when you even when you start to see it, it's hard to like you're aware that you're doing it. So like, so now now what do I do? Like, how do I stop doing that? Um? How did your parents meet? Oh my god, my parents went to high school together? Okay, and my dad sat behind my mom and apparently had a crush on her, Like the entire time they were in high school. My mom was cool. Um, he had a crush on the entire time they were

in high school. My mom was cool. My dad was not cool at all, Okay, and uh, like she didn't know she was. He was alive, Like she was a cheerleader and he was like a mathlete like that classic

like John Hughes ridiculousness. And then they my mom originally went to the University of Iowa UM and then ended up transferring out to go to the University of Illinois because of UM some a because she felt like she lived too close to her grandmother and then her grandmother was up in her business because there was some scandal that I won't talk about. Love family scandal, the family scandal,

and uh. She ended up going to the University of Illinois with my dad, and I think she dated his roommate or maybe both of his roommates and that didn't work out. And then I think they were a bar one night and she's like, I know you, and then they ended up together. Yes, I love it was like last Man Standing. Yeah, Like he was like a lot of bad guys. Yes, not bad guys, but just like my dad was so nice to her. He's like a

good guy. Okay, I don't mean to even be like I mean, I will say it's now that I've watched numerous seasons of the Bachelor, and I've watched different franchises of it because i have a podcast what's fascinating and and I can it test this because we've watched Australia, we've watched England. Literally, human nature every time whoever is like the nice, responsible like I'm I'm a sure thing, I will treat you well, I will not try to

fund your friends. They never pick that one, like it's always the final two when if your family likes them, they will always pick the other one, the one that will give you her base like but like it's truly like it's it's truly like like like human nature does not want the kind sure thing like always it's fascinated across the globe. But it's like, never did they pick

the right one? Um and by one of the things that's interesting just knowing, you know, like when I see I know the growing up with some shame and some shadowy stuff like you to me as a creator and that you, I think more than any showrunner I've ever worked with, Like, you know who you are, you know what your point of view is, You're you own it in a way that is unapologetic and and not people pleasy and like but graceful, Like how did you go

from being like I got dumped from seven friends, something's wrong with me too? Being new? Like how did that? I still think that something's wrong with me? Okay, I have the thing is that I deflected, So I feel

like I'm very good in a crowded room. Right, So if I can write the thing and put it out into the universe, then it's somehow farther away from me, so I can really be clear about my point of view and what my work is because I've alrea like it's public and I get the bravado part of it makes it easier for me interesting, And I think I learned that my mom has so much bravado, like she's abroad, you know, yeah, so like she's a party and so I'm I kind of learned that, like, oh, like if

I can be on, if I can be the party, then people are entertained by me and it's okay. And then in my private life. That's when I'm like, oh, I'm a piece of ship. I shouldn't have said that thing. I go over and over in my head like maybe I should have said that, Maybe I shouldn't done that. Nobody wants to spend like I don't like to make plans with people more than one time in a week because I think they're going to get sick of me,

Like I you know what I mean. I just it's that I built a podcast so I can hang out with people. So I get very uncomfortable and socially, especially if I don't have an If I have an introduction, I can usually make conversation like I'm never somebody that could walk up to somebody in a bar, like it's just you know, my husband was the president of his class, like he's very good at being social. So sometimes I actually have to pretend like I'm him when I'm in

a room by myself, like woman might do um. But yeah, I think also, you have a certain amount of out in a leadership position, which means I know people have to listen to me. So then the anxiety goes away a little bit because I don't feel like I have to prove that I'm okay, like I've already been told I'm okay because I'm the boss. So the part that gets I mean, I can't believe I'm saying this to you, but I love this. The part that gets wonky for me.

Then it's like, well, then is everybody being nice to me because I'm the boss? Like everything nice that you've just said to me, It's like, yeah, but you work

for me so well. With you, I kind of I believe you, but mostly but like a lot of the time, I check myself and then I go into that place of being twelve where I'm like, well, yeah, it's because now I like being the boss is kind of the equivalent of being the Queen Bay Like it's a little bit like you're being you're popular, but it's because someone's paying you to be popular, and so it's just like

it's a different thing that dynamic gets harder. But if I'm in a room full of people where that's not my position or nobody knows, then I'm like, oh, right back to like I'm a piece of shit again. The Eagle is Landed was Dexter your first TV What was your first TV gig where I was actually paid to be a writer. It was a show on NBC called The Ring. It was about the Pentagon, and I'm like, I heard ear ring and I thought of like like that birth control that people have like sewn into their hips,

you know. Very It was a very confusing title, which may have been why the show didn't do so well. Um, but yes, it was about the ring as opposed to d ring or c ring. Okay, Pentagon, how old were you? How did you? Like, like what where did you go after college? Where did you go to college? And like how did what got you to that first job? I'm

fascinated by, like the trajectory story. Yeah, it's weird. Uh. I went to Northwestern because I was, you know, the only child of Jewish parents who like desperately didn't want me to leave Chicago, and I was too scared on some level to go. How far away were there from your dorm? Twenty minute? Too close? Too close? I was like scared that I was going to run into them

at dinner at any horrible time. Because also my parents are foodie, so they would have driven from Deerfield to Evanston to go so like at any moment I could have run into that. Now, the good news about that is that my parents hosted for all the Jewish holidays. All my friends knew my childhood home, and my college friends got to know my high school friends, which is

really lovely, but also like I didn't really well. I was a late bloomer because I didn't really do all the crazy rebellious teenage ship until I was in my twenties and I moved out to l A. And I was just really went hard like that from twenty two to twenty seven, I was a catastrophe, what flavor catastrophe? All of them? What was your What was the most fun naughty year? I had a fun naught year when I was nineteen in Chicago. I think I made up

with everybody and gained thirty pounds in alcohol and and burritos. Yeah, I had the best time the twenty four to twenty seven years, but like really was like circling the drain when I went met my husband. Really like I was making out with everybody, So I don't know. My twenty four birthday, I got dared to make out with ten

people and I did it. That kind of like that started the thing that that I was like in a bar and like ten people in the same bar that somebody tapped me on the shoulder while I was mid make out with someone who was like, were you making out with that guy before? I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's my birthday. And then I went back to making out with the other. I mean, I was a disaster. That's really fun, super fun, but it's like kissing it's like,

who cares, I'm not gonna get pregnant a disease. It's like I was all about keeping both of the waist. Maybe a fun dry hump we make out in the doorway. Yeah, it's great. It was the best. Um. So that was fun, but I really like I started to maybe behave less ethically as I approached twenty seven and my husband kind of swooped in like exactly that moment to be like, I'm going to be the one I didn't know. You guys have been together since we were twenty seven years

fourteen years on October four. Um, Lauren's husband is so sweet, he's so talented, and he looks just like he looks just like Rick Morana. So who's such a likable person? Like three times a year someone will stop on the street like, hey, aren't you that guy? Guy shrunk the kids. Yes, yeah, I loved you years older than me. But Mike is always like people remember that, they remember the movie star. They don't know what it looks like. They like, they just know, like you're the guy you you you have

not aged today. I know. We actually in season one of Insatiable, we were like, can we get Rick Moran's to play the Jewish priest? And then we were like should mikeel was just play the Jewish? We had him do the line like five times, were like, no, you're not an actor, Let's get someone else. Oh my god. I love the idea. I would like to see them in the same room. I love that. I really want to see them in the same room. What were you doing out here? From seven? Like? What were you? What

were you doing? How are you paying your rent? So I I moved out here. I got a job as an ages assistant at Broder, Curl and web Uffner when it was still a thing, because I got absorbed, I seem and I was on a desk of two agents, one who was below the line and one who was above the lie um. And it was like a comprehensive education about the television business. And also one of them

was male and one of them was female. And so the guy I and I I just recently found out he suddenly passed away, which is really tragic because I haven't talked to him in like ten years. But he was like he was only two years older than me, but he looked like he was forty and he was like Tony soprano. He was amazing um and she was like Tracy Flick yes, And so I kind of was like this is it was too I really had to

juggle two personalities at one time. That's a vastly different prototype of people to go like that is way different. But also she's an agent named Jana Carrol lrne. I'm giving her shout out because she's amazing. Hey, girl, I learned that you could be powerful as a woman without being a bitch in Hollywood, which nobody had ever told me before. And she really was like they're just smart and on her ship. She was amazing. And so that happened, and then, uh, were you writing scripts at home? I

was writing scripts? But also, to be honest, I moved out here to be a writer. And then I mistakenly got here and decided I moved out here to be skinny. Yes, Like I just got confused about why I was here because I think it was like I always had body stuff and the thing I grew up in Chicago, the thing was like nobody actually looks like they do in movies and TV. And then I moved here and I

was like, no, they do here. I didn't have body stuff until I moved to l A. I was like just I was just like thirty pounds heavier, like it was like whatever. And then I moved here. I lost I started jogging in college just because I didn't never want somebody to tell me to lose weight. So I did it. But then I got out and I you know, I booked a job quickly because I was silly and quirky and different, you know, not not because I was

everybody else. And then I remember I got the flu one year and I lost all this weight and I started getting bigger storylines on the show I was on and people I was It was just because I had such a high fever. I couldn't walk to the fridge, but it was like unsustainable and people were like, I know, you're really sick, you look so great, So I started smoking to try and then it was I picked it up like a cold, you know, and then and then for a little bit, you lose your personality. Yeah. Well,

I mean I had to get a recovery. You know. It's like right about the time, a bottom down in every way. Um, but yeah, I I decided that. So I wasn't really writing scripts to the degree that I should have been at that time because I was looking up like diets and programs ends and all that stuff. But um, one of the agents clients got her first staff writer gig, and so she wanted to have an

ally on the staff. You know, when you're an agents assistant, you talked all the clients on the phone all the time. And so she got me into interview for the writer's assistant position, and I was the least experienced person, but they wanted to hire a female, and so they hired me.

And I ended up in the writer's room for Birds of Prey, which was like this Batman franchise show for the w B when it still existed, and magically was in a room with a bunch of people who, while that show wasn't a big deal, they all went on to be massively big deals. Even though at the time I don't think any of them are really as big

of a deal and now they're all huge. In that room was Mlissa Rosenberg, who went on to write the movies Lyda Calagritas, who's like the most successful female screenwriter other than Melissa Rosenberg of all time. M Eddie kits Is and Adam Horwitz who created Once upon a Time Hanstubius and who's run a million things right like Adam Armis and k Foster who created a ton of Ship Like. They were all, that's the room you're in, heavy hitters, and they were all like not uh, they weren't show

owners at that time, and so um. They taught me to pitch in the room. Eddie Kitts specifically would ask me like when the room had a well, he asked me, well what he's like, Okay, Rookie, what do you think? And I had something to say and then they were like either it was good or it was good but not right, and they would explain why such a gift. But also, Eddie Kitts this read my spec script that I had written while I was a brother, was like, you're very funny and very talented, and you're not a

comedy writer. Interesting. I was like what And so he takes credit for my career and I was like, what do you mean And at the time, he was, you know, you needed more space to tell a really emotionally deep story. So I wrote a six ft under spec and that

got me on my work. So from there I went briefly, you know, the show got canceled, and I went briefly to work for a manager, and ten days into that job, I got a call to be the writer's assistant from Melis Rosenberg, who had moved on to the o C. Yes, And I was like, I just took this other job, and I realized every single person who was there was dying to get a writer's assistant job. And I had an offer, and I'm like, if there's going to be a bridge that I burned, this is going to have

to be the one. And so I did. Also Melissa kind of tore me into when she's like, are you kidding, Like you're going to call and not be ecstatic that I'm offering to this job, Like you're right, You're right, You're right. So I went and so I spent the first season in the o C, which was like life changing, I mean just in terms of learning so much from all of a lot of women in that room actually, and also josh Is and to be on a hit too, like witnessing the birth of a hit, also witnessing the

birth of teen stardom. Yes, like I was. I feel like I may have seen the moment where Adam Brody realized he was famous because went to some screening at Sharkey's in the South Bay. Yeah, we were in love. I love Sharks. We were in the car on the way and a couple, you know, all the writers just jumped into the cars with the actors and everyone was very friendly. And he got out of the car and there was like a thousand thousand screaming teenagers. And I

saw the look on his face. It was like, oh, sh I'm famous now, which was magical for me to be like, oh, I think I just saw a single moment in somebody's life. I just I just got chills sticking back, like I didn't know going back between season one season two. Have insatiable like because because Netflix is different than traditional net network where you do a couple and start airing and you're still filming. You know, we've

done the entire thing. The privacy of Atlanta and then I remember going with you and the cast to Instagram and Facebook headquarters and we'd already dropped and like Michael Provost had gotten like who plays Brick, He'd gotten like a million in Instagram followers on like a day, you know what I mean. And I was curious to see, particularly for the the younger cast, a lot of them, it was one of their first jobs, you know, the

more veteran people. It's like Debbie's been like Debbie was gonna be a diction Dorty bad because she's lovely, you know, Dallas is lovely. This is a lot like But I was curious to see if when we came back with all of this, because you can actually have metrics now because you see your followers go up. I didn't know if the kids would be different, and they weren't. And I want to still think about. Part of it is the safety too, of filming in Atlanta, you know, like

that there's like it's just us. It's like camp, you know it is. But I also just think we have a good group of people. You haven't picked any jerks, like it's it's been a great group of people. Yeah, they I mean, it's a magical puppy pile of human beings um and going back to the O c and everything like one of the things, like it was interesting. It's been interesting writing this book because you're sort of you know you I always just like what I just

moved forward, you know, when it was interesting. The publisher requested a chapter on like how did you get from this tiny town on with like a chicken caboos, Like there's literally a caboost filled with chickens in a field and a general store and no stoplights, Like how did you get from there? To a TV? And looking at a lot of the happy accidents and like putting yourself in the right room being even just being good at

photo copying or being relized. You know, I remember I was an internet conent or, I worked for a casting director. I worked in prov Olympic in Chicago, like just being around and being competent, and then all of the talented people that were that they all go on and if you just show up and it's a lot of you stake your plan of but then the wind blows. No,

it's true, that's what happened. So so from the O c UH I ended up going to a show called North Shore on Fox about it like it was basically love Boat in a hotel and the show went early, so they cherry picked all the writers from the Fox Overall deals. So again I was in like a powerhouse

of writers on this show that was essentially the love Boat. Yes, and they were all amazing, and they all took me under their wing and then they continue to teach me how to pitch and and I kind of did a good job at my job, Like I happened to be a great writer's assistant because I have perfect oral memory

and so I can write down verbatim everything. Everybody's the fastest typer I've ever seen to and so they liked me, and uh, I gave them my spect that I had written, Thanks Daddy, kids, this is six ft under and they all liked it. And so five people in that room had shows that were set to get picked up and none of those shows went And I was devastated, was my It was year five of being an assistant, and I was like, I have to go. I made a deal with myself, like if it doesn't happen in five years,

I think I have to leave. And where I don't know where. But I was like, am I really going to keeping an assistant for longer than that. Like I just kind of, you know, I was a straight a student, Like I don't wait like if things happened for me, you know what I mean, I just like get it done. And Uh, I had one more shot because the the executive producers of north Shore had an overall deal and they've just re upped their assistant. Uh had to leave

because he had a methodiction yea. So they swooped in and were like, if you're not going to be the writer's assistant anymore, will you be our assistant? I was like okay, and uh. It was Chris Broncado and Bert Sukey, which is interesting for a lot of reasons, which I'll

tell you in a second. And they went, we moved them to ABC and they were in their overall deal and I was there for two weeks and then one of the writers from north Shore called my boss, Bert Saukee and Chris Broncado and said, Lauren, get off the phone because you know, assistants listening to all the calls. And I was like, oh shit, what did I do or what did I say? Because I'm someone whose mouth

goes five miles faster than the rest of me. I often say, I'm not supposed to say that's like my brand. So I was like, what, who did I tell something I shouldn't have told? Or what did I do that somebody found out about? Because if you remember, that was in my period of time where I was really wildly misbehaving girl. So uh So I got at the phone and I was like, I just was like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. I hope it's just

a personal problem between it because they were friends. So it's like, let's just pray that somebody's having problems in their house, but not really. You're never wor step thing like I want to fund the nanny, but I'm not going to. Let's hope it's that that I don't know about you. But things agat I break and then I see the light go off of the phone's been hung up, and I hear Lauren get in here, and I'm like, I literally felt all the blood rain out of my face.

I know, I'm so panicked. And I walk in there and Bird's all he looks at me and he goes, you need to find another job, Like you need to find a replacement for yourself, Like yesterday, and I was like, okay, what happened? And I want to die, you know, and he goes kenn of staffing you any rail and I was like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, Lauren. So it turned out like I didn't know that that was going to be. The guy was Ken Billark. He's my fairy godfather. He gave me

my first job. Um, and he brought me in on this Pentagon military ship. I'm like, I'm a Jew from Chicago, tick about the military, you know, to be the character writer. So once again like I'm designated other in the room, which is but that was uncomfortable because I already didn't know what I was doing, you know, and I just kind of learned to run with it, like Okay, I'm not here to tell military stories. I'm here to tell emotional stories. So that's what I'm gonna do. I like that.

I heard that as am in my mind. I'm like, if I have a specialty, I'm like, I'm needed, and I'm needed if they if not, if not, everybody does what I do, that's good news. I think it's great, but not when it's your first job. It was very intimidating, like I don't even if I can keep up. But the good news was I because I didn't know, I

asked a ton of questions. And one of the guys who co created the show was actually a former Green Beret and a marine and all the things, and he had spent so much time with I got on the show late, and so he had become very frustrated with writers who said, yes, I understand that's what really happened, but that's not a good story. He's like, I literally watched people's brain matter splatter out of their heads, and you're gonna tell me that's not like he just was,

you know, understandably like that. I lived a life like how dare you? And so instead I learned to say things like, here's emotionally what we're going for. What would be a good way in that? And and he grew very fond of my ability to pull that out and then put it into an emotional context without being disrespectful. That's so interesting, which was which has helped me enormously because since then I have done a lot of adapting

real life stuff. Two story, which is what Insatiable is in a lot of ways, say this one more time, make it nice and clear for me. So you start with like the emotional truth that you want to tell, right, and then I say, what's a way to get there? Like how do you back that? How do you backfill that and make it real? So that was really helpful. Um, But then it became clear that the ring was not going to move forward. And this is back when people

were still watching pilots on DVD. Yeah. Uh, the Dexter DVD was floating around and we all watched it lunch one day, and I had zero interest from writing a show about a serial killer, Like I was not at the toime. Now I am, but at the time I was not obsessed with serial killer as I thought it was like too dark and cop shows were not my thing. And I saw the pilot and I was like, this is a dark comedy. This is my favorite thing I've

ever said. I couldn't from the moment that he murders someone and then you hear really fun, happy Miami music and he's on the boat and he's so happy. I was like, oh, this is my jam. Like I didn't stop laughing. I was so surprised about it. I was like, I have to get on the show, and I did, and I was there for eight years, and somewhere in there was pretty clear I was gonna get fired because they had changed showners and the showmenner did not like me, and I had to write my way out of jail,

and so I wrote a pilot. I wrote a specpilot, and then that person ended up getting fired off the show. So I stayed on Dexter, but you had but I had the pilot, and uh. Eventually I got set up at Ryan Murphy's company, and then Ryan and I did a pass on it together and we did it an hpgo and we thought the thing was going to go,

and that didn't go. But while I was waiting to find out what was going to happen with that show, UH, CBS reached out with an article called The Patrick King of Alabama, which is amazing about a man named Bill Alberson Patrick girlsclar who spectacular and I read it and like my face exploded, and I was like, I have to do this thing. Do you still start your writing process from like is your general like? Does it usually start with a the emotional core and then you worry

about the plot. It's different every time. It's really really different. Every time for me, I wish I had like also because I have, I haven't worked with a ton of people, but the people who I have worked with have influenced me greatly, and so every single person I have worked with has a different approach. And I have to say

working with Ryan was like life changing. Ryan Murphy was life changing because he's with He's all about like the big story event, and because I was all about emotion, I wanted to tell the very detailed emotional beats of

the story. And we wrote, we were writing scripts like we were breaking stories in the writer's room and he walked in and there was a whole episode two after the pilot that I felt was so emotionally important, like it was it was the heart of the matter of everything that the characters were going through in the show. And he walked in and he sat down and said, I'm bored. We can literally pull this entire episode out and jump right to episode three. And I was devastated,

and I was convinced he was wrong. And then I read episode one, next episode three, and I was like, he's totally right. He's a hundred percent right. And that was like devastating and eye opening and that's part of the reason why on Insatiable, the story choose the furniture, because I realized how valuable that is. You told me that he taught you, don't hoard your story now, horrid your plot, burn it, and that you'll trust that you'll

come up with more. Yeah. I thought that was so interesting. Yeah, but it's interesting because it's the it's in a lot always the opposite of the way that I was raised in the business, and so I think it's hard to juggle which way to go back to. So sometimes now I I like think of the big moments and then I figured out a way to backwards engineer why the emotion makes sense. Yeah, but um, a lot of the writers in our room go the other way that I

used to do. So it's always interesting to be reminded, like, oh right, that's also totally helpful. And you know this this year, I hired a guy who was on Dexter with me almost the entire time, and he's like, where did the theme and emotion? Laura go like, you're all like, incident incident in yeah, and You're like, I she worked with Ryan Murphy. I'm like, thank you for reminding me because on Dexter. He was all incident incident incident, and

I was like, but wait, what's the theme. What's Dexter's emotional? He's like, I don't understand what's happening. I feel like we've switched places, and it's it's so beautiful. That's why long relationships are so helpful, because he was like my brother, and the ability to do that was so wildly helpful when I hear just just knowing about the show and just hearing about your process, to like, what a gift. Probably that young girl who got burned in seventh raid

is great? Like how much in some ways the gift of that original wound? I mean, I feel like that's where as scary as it is, you know, like I mean, this is gonna sound. I mean, I truly both of my parents died when I was recording this podcast. Like I never like doing stand up and stuff. I never ever was honest about. I was never very personal on stage. And when life happens and you can't hide it because it's like all of a sudden, I'm like I should be in my studio and like I'm in my freaking family.

Then with my brother still doing the podcast, like you know one of them was out of the blue, one of them wasn't. But like two then it was a I could have easily just canceled it that week, but like the choice of like here's where I am, I'm still gonna do it and and I'm not great, but like this is also what helps me get better, is like I like making things, um, and then I do believe. And you said to me, not like, but this is

sort of what the book is about. Like and and in the oddity of it closing, like the book deal closing, you said to me, I just see like butterflies, I see like regeneration. Um that I think, Um, you know, I really feel like the gift of the like certain things that are so painful when you're going through them. It is like fertilizer for making. I really think creativity

is such a healing thing. And like without that with like if you had been nailing it and like having not getting ghosted by those girls like that original hurt, I think helps in a productive way, helps make good good art because I think that's where my sense of humor ultimately, I mean, I think I always had a sense of humor, but like, yeah, I'm never fondier than

when I'm angry or sad hurt. Yeah, oh my god, my brother and I the jokes we were making just that weekend or just like nobody else could listen because they're a little dark. You're like, yeah, yeah, I mean I remember even like Debbie gave me a ride. It was like it had happened like ten minutes earlier. And I remember like telling that like, oh, it's just as my mom would have wanted. I found out at a trking class, you know what. It's like, what the fun?

Like this just happened? This is real? Why are you already doing a bet? Like you need to? Just like I'm floating, Um, what do you wish? And I know you guys haven't dinner that you guys are going to, but like, what do you wish you could say to like, I don't know, fourteen year old Lauren or twenty five year old Lauren, Like what do you wish you knew that you know now that you wish you could have known? Then? Uh, that's a really it's a really challenging question. I mean

to fourteen year old me, fourteen year old fourteen stuff? Man? So you know I look like barbed from stranger things. I mean, you've seen it, You've witnessed stuff. Uh, I would have I would have said, don't be afraid to be who you are, which is I think what your show is, I think in statute, uh, and that not And also, don't be so worried about what other people think of you. I would say that to me now. By the way, year old, like, stop being so concerned

about what other people think. Like nobody's paying that much attention to you. They're always thinking about themselves. So you do you and people will figure it out. And by the way, you walk through like such a storm, like so gracefully. Yeah, thank you. I'm glad that it appeared to be graceful because like I know, that wasn't easy, and it wasn't It wasn't. And what would you say to twenty four year old Lauren h get your ship together off that, don't make out with that or that guy.

Stop emailing that guy, stop telling dirty stories to that guy, right that? Um yeah, but I also think, like, take the time to figure out who you really are. I love that because I think I didn't, and I think it bit me in the ass a little bit in a way that I had to kind of do it backwards and listen, I did it the way I had to do it, and again like the pain. You know that it works the way it's supposed to work. But a lot of life is choose your own adventure at

a certain point, like you have to learn it. You learn it by trial and error, right right, And I think, I don't know it's it's weird. It's like the stuff that I would have gone back and told my fourteen years off of stuff that I still feel like I need to learn. It's not like I learned. It's like I know now, you know, like you're not the bad guy, and uh, stop obsessing about your food in your body, which I still need to hear. Help me with that.

They kept throwing everybody in bikinis and everybody cry and remember just going I'm not trying to be a bikini model. I'm just gonna worry bet if I'm funny, and just like trust the worm drump me because I really hated how I looked and I was just like, I can't hate myself anymore. I'm dumb. I wish I wish I were done. Yeah, sometimes I can be mean to my face, but I'm nicer to my body. Yeah, I also think like, you're cuter than you think you are, and like go

out and have more fun with that. That would have been a nice thing to do. Like I look at pictures of myself at twenty four, I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah, like I'm never going to be that young again. Yeah. Ever, yeah, ever, it's so depressing. Yeah, it's so depressing. But then I think about, like sixty five year old us is gonna look back on us now and think that, Yeah, I'm

gonna end with two bachelor related questions. You're on you're at the bachelor mansion for a bachelorette or a bachelor whoever, what outfit do you wear getting out of the limb first night? Your what is your I pick a bad I have a bad out at Debbie said she would wear men's wear, I say, Debbie, Debbie Winds, I say, I would wear like I would get it, and I would do like a mullet dress like I would do like it would be like Regina in the Pilot. I fear I would panic and have like a short in

the front, but then I'd want to be formal. I'd have something in the bags, so I don't watch. It's okay. What would you be if you're going, like on a date, if you had to go through a singles cruise and you're like, what is your I would wear? I would wear a jumpsuit And it's all right, So you are not about for a watcher. Here's your final question. Which

one of these is not? So they put up that they would say, like Lauren Gus to showrunner writer, like they put a little chiron about what somebody's job is. Which one of these was not a profession of somebody on the show. Oh my god, chicken enthusiast, sloth, tickle monster, cry baby, social media participant, lawyer, JumboTron operator or Canadian? Which was fake? Chicken enthusiast, sloth, tickle monster, cry baby, social media participant, lawyer, JumboTron operator or Canadian? Which one

is fake? That's actually real? Cry baby was fake? Oh my god, yeah, cry baby. But the rest of them were at some were people's careers, Yeah, that's the tickle monster was also like a pediatrician, which was like the creepiest Yeah, that felt like it. He how was that a career? In a how did he? Why was he the he liked to like tickle people. He didn't last very long. He didn't last very long. Yeah, it was super gross. Um, Lauren, I may I say I love you?

Is that an inappropriate? Can I say that I love you? And I'm just like I just I appreciate you opening up your hearts to us via Insatiable and then also you coming in and doing this with me. Um. And I'm going to get your friend steven On when he comes back to Los Angeles and we can promote the very fancy and talented steven S. Yeah to spring Away and he's going to come promote his book. And if you want to pre order my book on Amazon, guys, I'm dying too. I want to be a New York

Times bestseller. Rumor has it you need to sell eight thousand copies. If I was rich, i'd pay you all back. But I'll say I will sign anybody's copy. If you just pre order, you'll forget you ordered it, but then it arrives. Apparently it's all about pre sales. It's it's all about pre sales, little miss little Compton. You can preorder it now on Amazon. Um, Lauren, thank you so much, and listeners will be back. Bye. Oh Yeah, I want to get all up in you tonight. So I'm just

gonna wonder, w will you accept This? Rose is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.