Nicole Lohse on Embracing Wholeness

first conversation on this podcast. Yeah, so, thank you for for doing this. Thank you for agreeing to do that. Of course, I think I had to have someone that I was so comfortable with to start this podcast off, and that fully knows what it's like two or the whole experience of putting yourself out there in new, super freaking uncomfortable way. I know that because that's what I mean.

This is honestly, this is I used my voice all the time, and I I'm interviewed all the time by people, so I never actually get to flip the script and do the questioning, right. Um so yeah, So it's a it's a bit nerve wracking. It's funny because for me it's the opposite too, because I'm usually in the in the seat of supporting and now we get to switch roles too, so it's pretty fun. Yeah, you always ask

me good questions in are when we're sitting together. Um, so I just want uh to first off, start out with who you are and what you do. I actually I met Nicole through a good friend of ours, Kylie Macbeth, who I had been working with as a coach for a while, and she's like, you have to meet this lady name Nicolos because she she does this work called somatic experiencing. And first off, I'm like, what the hell is semantically experiencing, which I'm sure a lot of people

are wondering. You can explain what that is. I'm gonna allow you to do that in a moment. But it's even difficult for me sometimes to still wrap my head around what it is that we actually are doing because it's so involved and sometimes I'm thinking, am I'm making this up? It's a fascinating experience and it all has to do with the body. So can you just explain

what is somatic experiencing. Yeah, I mean it's funny because I too, am still learning how to explain it because it is such a I don't want to say surreal, because it's very real, but the experience is sometimes hard to grasp and it's hard to put words to what it is that's happening. Right, But ultimately, somatic experiencing is the work of Peter Levine, and what we're paying attention

to is our survival physiology. So a lot of the time when we learn to pay our attention to our experiences, we learned to try to make sense of our experiences. But with somatic experiencing, we're actually paying attention to our mid and lower brain and what's happening at that level

from more of a survival perspective. So when I'm going throughout my day, what's happening from in from within those systems, what's happening when I respond to something, How am I responding from a survival perspective instead of how am I trying to figure out what's happening and trying to make sense of what's happening. So it's kind of like we're getting on into our primitive brain and trying to make

sense of something that's kind of hard to make sense of. Right, Well, when you use the word respond, I feel like a lot of us are triggered, you know, and don't really have the opportunity to even respond. We just naturally react from that old from an old place, that's that's familiar. How do we even get into the option to respond? Well, first off, before we go there, I'd love to talk about how and why we are so disconnected from the body.

A lot of us live up in our heads most of the time, and why is there such a disconnect there? And how do we even start understanding, like when we're triggered, why is it such a disconnect there? Yeah, I think to start off with like, when we're paying attention to our survival physiology, we're paying attention to what's below our head. We're paying attention to what's happening in our body. So how am I tightening? How is my heart rate increasing?

How is my body changing in response to whatever is triggering me? How am I responding? And this isn't something we're often taught. We're taught to try to make sense of what's happening. You know, I got triggered here. This is probably because of this or I'm not even aware I'm triggered. I'm just responding the way I know how to respond because that's just what I know, because we love what's familiar. So I think that's one of the biggest things is we're not taught how to pay attention

to what's happening in our body. And also we can be numb to what's happening in our body, and that's a lot of society. We live in our heads and it's like, oh, I have this body, but I have no sense or idea of what the heck is happening

in there, and that can be a survival mechanism exactly. Yeah. Yeah, why because I feel like so many of us have a lot of trauma living within the body, and I feel like sometimes we need to even expand what our definition of trauma is because a lot of us are walking around thinking there's only these large traumas that that's what really trauma is. But there can also be a lot of small traumas, like throughout our day to day experiences that we don't necessarily feel and or know that's

locked in there. Do you think that's the reason why we don't want to feel those things exactly. Yeah, definitely. One of the reasons why we can be numb to our experience. It's not only because we didn't learn how to be with it, but it is because one of our survival mechanisms is to freeze, is to disconnect from our experience. So when we're looking at trauma, trauma ultimately is us stuck, still trying to survive. And that can

show up in so many different ways. We can show up in us trying to be something we're not because

it's safer to be something else. It can be us trying to constantly be on, constantly be in that go mode because slowing down doesn't feel okay, right, we don't know how to be anything but in that go, go go mode, or we're so disconnected that we're numb, and we can carry on through life doing our thing, and then for whatever reason, you know, all of a sudden, you have this big blow up and have this crisis at work and there's this I'm forgetting the word, what's

the word? When I wanted to call it a midlife crisis? It's not that too. You should burn out at any rate, yes, yes, but ultimately you have you know, life is pretty good. Life is awesome, and then all of a sudden something happens and I get really sick and or I burn out. And that's the thing. Trauma can show up in so many different ways, and we tend to uss as the trauma is these events that happened to us. But it's important to recognize trauma doesn't need to be an event

at all. It's more about us stuck still trying to survive these situations that happened throughout our life, so it can show up is so many different ways in our everyday life. Interesting, yeah, yeah, what in your life brought you to this work? What made you choose semantic experiencing as you were? As you were a line connecting with people? Really for me, and I'm still in this process of constantly knowing there's more to know about myself and about

each other. And it started for me through yoga, and I got into teaching yoga and had a pretty strong yoga practice, but I never felt like that was it, So I was always inquiring looking for more. I live and I still do a really amazing life. I had a lot of opportunity. I can say in air quotes that I came from a good family life was really good, but I always knew something was missing. I always knew

that there was more to us as human beings. So yoga was my introduction to that, and then through more curiosity I got into Feldon Chris which is another movement practice which is all about exploring what your patterns and your habits are so f E L D E N K R A I S and the method is amazing. It's named after Moscha Feldon CHRISI, and he, in my opinion,

was the pioneer of neuroplasticity. He very much looked at movement from a nervous system perspective and was all about exploring what our patterns in our habits were and how to be more efficient with how we use ourselves. So he created this modality based a lot on how children learn to move, how we organically know how to move if we allow our structure to do what it's does I to do. But yet we get in our own way. We get in our own way from you know, copying

those around us. We get in our own way by getting injuries and overcompensating, under compensating, and ultimately the work is about bringing ourselves back into our body and back towards moving the way we were designed to move. What I really appreciated about the Pelton Chris method is he uses movement as a way to get into the body to get to know yourself more So, even though it's movement based, there's so many more layers. Like read his books and it's mind blowing. There's so much depth to

the work, a lot of action based activities. It's like, Oh, I get to be in my body, and I can also not be in my body. How do I teach a class but invite people to learn more about themselves? So that's where I got more into sc where it's like, Okay, there's I'm seeing all these nervous systems. I'm seeing all these bodies, but there's something lacking and how we are

seeing ourselves. And it was the nervous system from a trauma perspective piece that really gave me insight into seeing the depths of us as human beings and where we get stuck and why we get stuck, and how us in survival mode really limits us from not just the physical respective, but now really understanding how the that survival energy and us living and survival ultimately stops us from

showing up as who we are. I mean, they're surviving and thriving, right, And so most of us are constantly in survival mode, and there there is no thriving exactly, there's no access to thriving. I think, gosh, I for even my personal experience, I think I'm just starting to thrive. Hell yeah, congratulation, I mean, thank you. Right, that's a big because when you live in survival mode, you're gosh, there's no expanding out out of what we call the

comfort zone. You know, there's no there's no expanding outside of that. There's no growth. There's a lot of stagnation. Um and like you're basically what you're saying, there's kind of this looping pattern and you're stuck in a loop. Right, there's a little access to intuition, Yes, even to instincts.

Instincts are all astrue. You're not only questioning yourself, you know constantly, and like you're saying, with your instincts and your intuition, and and that brings us back to why we're so disconnected, why so many people are in their heads and not in their bodies, Because ultimately, it's like I'm just trying to survive and the best way I can do that is by living from my higher brain.

You're right, my neo cortex and just like, oh, I can think my way through the yeah, we can all we can think our way and it becomes very analytical and nothing becomes instinctual. And feel that in the feeling, especially for a woman, like when you get disconnected from that,

like that's you're disconnected from your complete life force. I mean not just for women, to everybody, but especially as a woman, I think we naturally have that innate feminine life force and flow, and clearly we're living in a world that's alot of from that. Of percent, do you feel like you always had a connection to your own body. I feel like I've always had a connection to knowing, my deeper knowing. I feel like I've always been pretty in my body, and I also have definitely been numb.

And the more I do this work, the more I realize how ultimately in Freeze I am and I think a lot of the world because it's like, let's just shut this down and not feel. And as I do the work, the more access I'm getting to feeling the depth of emotion and understanding of who I am and that's still evolving. Um So, even though I did have a lot of access to my body, I now recognize that I still was in phrase. Alright, So on that note, we are going to freeze and take a breath for

a quick break. But when we come back, I'm gonna get into sharing a moment when I was frozen. Welcome back everyone. Last night I was having a freak out about doing this interview with you, and my husband's like giving me this pep talk of oh, you're gonna be great, and you do this all the time. And literally I went through fight, flight and freeze all in one experience. And the crazy thing is, you've made me so aware

of it now. I literally started an argument with him, like and wanted to fight like with him about him telling me I was great. Then I literally like left the room and went upstairs and then I completely frozen bed, like I couldn't move. I started to go into like depression mode, and all of a sudden, in the middle of the night last night, I woe up from my sleep and went, oh my god, I just went through the whole experience right there, like one in one conversation,

and it's amazing. The awareness is beautiful, but it's also so freaking painful because then you when you start to have this awareness around your trauma responses, you start to realize, like how often you're living there, like you were just saying, how often that happened? How often I freeze? Actually had the experience of a freeze state right before I went

on stage the other day. If I had not have done this work with you, I would have never known what was happening and how to re acquaint myself with like the space and actually kind of come back into the moment and my my own you know, experience how to actually get out of that. But are you willing to share what you what you experienced that showed you it was phrasing then how you got that? Sure? Um? Usually my free state just feels like super heavy in

my body. Um, I feel heavy. I feel like everything kind of slows down, and I feel like like my vision all of a sudden gets like, um, almost blurry and hyper focused. And I don't I feel like you can't move. I really don't feel like I'm frozen. And I started to use mindfulness really to reaquate myself with the room and the you know what, what was I smelling what was what was I you know, my I guess I was kind of broad um broadening my sense of focus. It didn't have to be. It wasn't so

hyper focused anymore. So I was just trying to acquit myself with the moment and the room that I was in, Because what happens to me is before I go on stage, I can get really hyper focused on wanting to do it right, you know, making sure that I go over lyrics. Sometimes in my head I can all of a sudden just put me into a free state. Yeah, it was.

It was really about me coming back into the moment, can be back into my breath, and then trusting I have to remind myself, especially before I walk on stage, like trusting I know what I'm doing, like I've done this my whole life, and really loving the part of myself that was scared, like coming like even just touching my own body, and like coming back into my heart and knowing like my intention for what I'm going to do when I walk on stages, I'm just going to

share my heart. I mean to share it, which is, by the way, it seems, can be really fear inducing in itself of like, yeah, I'm just gonna go share my heart. But for me, that's what I feel like I'm put here to do, you know. Um so yeah,

So that that was kind of my experience. And what's cool Like, as you're talking about it, there's the knowing of what you did, but then there's also the embodying of what you did, right, So it's like I can try to think my way out of this, or I can try to really you know, I've done this a

million times, You've got this. There's that mental activity, but then there's actually feeling what part of you knows that you love this, and what part of you knows that you're present, Like how do you know that your attentions addening instead of just being all hyper focused? Right? That's what I love about this work is we're aware of ourselves then moving into the survival states, so into fight and to flee, into shutting down, into ultimately our survival patterns.

So first we start to become aware of how that happens, right, what that feels like in our own body, what that looks like, how do I know I'm moving more into freeze, and how I often explain it. It's like, oh, I'm going down that highway again, the highway I know really well, I'm moving into that freeze response and I know it, and there's this other highway over here. And by tapping into some of the tools you mentioned that I can choose something different. I don't have to stay stuck down

this highway, we don't have to stay frozen. I can actually start to feel connected to myself again and orient to my surroundings and have my system recognized this isn't as dangerous as I'm perceiving it. It's actually more like, oh, I feel a bit more expansive and less freezy. Or I'm noticing as I look around and I'm noticing smells, or I'm noticing the things that I'm seeing. I notice I organically take a breath, and I feel myself shifting out of that freeze day and feel some sensation of

my feet on the ground. Really using these opportunities like oh, I notice I'm traveling down this road I know really well, but what else is possible? So I can start to establish a new potential pattern here, a new highway to travel. And you you just said aware, though, I think is such a It's a key word that's used so often and I wonder if you could just expand upon what embodiment is a little bit more, because I hear it all the time and I still I'm just now starting

to I think, understand exactly what that is. Um. But yeah, if you could expand upon that, that would be great. Yeah. Embodiment similar to wholeness. I think when we get to wholeness is a word that we don't know until we know it. And so I was actually just in a training and one of the teachers says, you don't know what you don't know until you know it. Yes, that's true. It is so true. Can I just say this, It's not even to you know it's it's to you until

you feel it exactly. There's a big difference because I've known a lot of ship but until I feel it, which is the work that you do, which is I think the key component in my own healing journey of where I felt that something just wasn't clicking completely, this concepts that I had in my head, and I had all this knowledge, you know, all of this experience actually of talking about it and therapizing it. There you go,

that's a word therapyizing, um. But I've never had the bodily experience, and so I just wanted to when we talk about knowing, we really mean like the full bodily knowing exactly. Yeah, there's two different types of knowing. There's knowing logically and then there's knowing through the body's experience of just knowing. Embodying ultimately means embodying the experience of what is being explored or embodying whatever is being explored. So for example, um, for me, like I said, I

was just at a workshop this weekend. We were exploring the somatics of complex emotions, which that's amazing. You look at emotions from a somatic way, somatic meaning of the body. So what is the pattern of emotions in our body? And something I personally have been working on myself is receiving the depth of actually receiving support from other people. And I can know that that someone's there for me, but to actually feel that has been a real big

challenge for me. So through my explorations, this has been an ongoing process for me. But I had the shift within my body. I woke up at four am just being like, holy shit, they care And I just had this feeling in my body that indicated like they care, they care, and the love is unconditional, and the support is there, and there was now a body belief of that versus just the mind of knowing that. That makes me want to cry because I don't know that yet completely.

It's only half my body that we're going to cheer that half on big time, Oh my god, because yeah, I feel like so many of us, you know, the you know, the idea of unconditional love, the idea of belonging, the idea of receiving, like those are beautiful things that I hope that we all one day get to feel and truly embody. But I think so many of us we don't, like you're saying, we don't know truly what that experience feels like. And it's and that breaks my heart.

It breaks heart. I mean, so many of us are. We have it right in front of us, We have the people that are and the belonging in the and the love right there in front of us. And when it it's when we've built up these walls to not allow it in, whether it be because of our own beliefs of I think this is such a deep belief for almost everyone, is that we aren't worthy of it. And I want to challenge that it's a belief. I

don't even think it's a belief. I think it's a protection in the system that feels that it has to protect from receiving that and with it coming to the belief. So you're basically saying, we have these defense mechanisms that we ultimately are that we feel, and what we're feeling is causing is connected to the belief. That's how I see it. I see it again. It happens so much in our body. It's in our cells, it's in our way our nervous system and our lower and midbrain communicate

with one another. It's that part of trying to survive that implements these protecting mechanisms that implements the ultimately survival patterns that don't necessarily allow us to connect because connection doesn't feel safe. And to me, it's starts within that survival physiology. And then we obviously gained beliefs from that because that's the experience that's actually that's amazing, and that

actually frees me. I just felt like such a freeing feeling from that because I don't know how many times I think to myself, why can't I changed this self worth belief and that just totally explained it to me because I can't feel it exactly because it's in the cells. The belief is in the cells. Yeah, that's fascinating. Okay, number two, we're working on that. Next Okay, we have

receiving and so worth. And then you know something that you introduced me to and I really wanted to have you on as one of my first guests to talk about wholeness because of the podcast being called The Holy Human I thought that would be a great place foundationally to start. And I feel like, now that you've introduced me to this idea of wholeness, which I feel like I've only touched upon, it's not just a concept, it's now I've actually felt it, I feel like it's so foundational.

And yeah, I just would love for you to tell everyone what, well, what is wholeness to you? Yeah, it's an interesting thing because the wholeness is relatively new to me in a word context, the idea, the idea of wholeness is new to me, probably within the last year and a half, but it's something that I've always experienced.

I'm so grateful for this. I remember, you know, growing up and being in high school and we would drive around with the windows down and everyone in the car would heckle everyone, because that's what you do in high school annoyingly. Um, just induce drama on people right now. But I remember always being like, guys, you have to stop, like this is so wrong, because I've always just seen in all human beings, which is sometimes hard to grasp

because some human beings are evil. But there's a sense of wholeness, like you are already whole, you are already at your core someone something that is expansive ultimately, but we aren't taught how to show up from that place. We aren't taught to pay attention to that place. We're taught and we just automatically show up more in our

survival patterns. So wholeness to me is this sense of you are already whole, You're already with such an experiential thing that it's just you already are, yet you have all these other ways of showing up in the world to help you survive wholeness. Uh. I feel like we're originally the idea of original sin and the idea and religion of you know, of us being wisteners and are already broken and there's something outside of us that will

make us whole. And you know that really is I mean, that's the basis of of feeling like we're fragmented and that and that that fragmentation. I don't necessarily feel like that fragmentation is wrong. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just like we're saying pieces of who we are. It's the remembrance of that we are foundationally fundamentally whole is what enables us to bring to Actually, even for me, it's it's allowed me to look at these fragments without

with less judgment totally. Yeah, it's kind of like it helps you differentiate, like, oh, this is me showing up in life, trying to do what I know how to do, and there's space for change there. There's it's malleable that fragmentation can start to evolve and become back come into who I already am. M h. That I don't have to be these other pieces, these fragmentations I can differentiate and as I work through the layers of that, I

can eventually come more and more into my wholeness. I use a river analogy for this, which I find really helpful. The river analogy Ultimately, it's partially I'm pulling it from Peter Levin's work, but also bringing in aspects of from my spiritual teacher, Chris Turkeys, and how I kind of see life in general. Is us in our wholeness is when we're in the river, when we're connected to our life force energy, and when we are in that state, we are able to respond to whatever is happening in

our lives. It's not that life is, you know, great all the time and we're happy all the time, because that's bullshit. It's more that I'm able to regulate. I'm able to respond to whatever happens in my environment and move through it and carry on in life without staying stuck in my trigger or stuck in my activation. Something happens, I respond, and then I'm back into feeling connected in flow, carrying on down my river. But when we have trauma, we tend to get sucked down into war taxes. So

flowing down the river life's pretty good. Something happens and I get pulled into one of my survival patterns and pulled into one of my traumas and stuck believing I still need to survive. So let's say I'm going to throw an example in here so it's more relatable. Let's say I'm having an argument with my partner and all of a sudden, I move into anger and it feels

too much, so I shut down. So I'm pulled into my trauma vortex, which is me just shut down, unable to express and defensive, and you know, I just want to storm out of there. There's all this energy, but I'm kind of just stuck in it, and we go to sleep, and the next day, you know, we just carry on doing our thing, but I'm still kind of stuck in the energy of that vortex, and that can

happen over and over and over throughout our day. This ultimately is disregulation where I'm stuck in all my trauma responses. I'm stuck trying to survive. I'm stuck on mighty flee anxious energy or totally shut down and can't feel just carrying on with my life Versus when I'm in the river and I can just feel and I can be in flow and I can adapt to whatever I'm feeling. So when we're stuck in these vortexes, that's when this

work is so important. It's like, how do I start to pick apart these var texes, how do I ultimately find again coming back to the highway analogy, another road to travel down. So what's important to recognize is with every vortex, there's a counter vortex that connects us back into the river, back into the sense of I'm already whole and the vortex is ultimately just one of the fragmentations.

So with every fragmentation, there's still this connection of oh, I'm already whole, I'm I still have access to self, I still have access the life force energy. I might just be really caught up in this vortex that I don't realize it. I don't even know how to navigate

my way back there. And that's where I find this work so important, is like I can now recognize them being drawn into one of those vortexes, into one of my patterns, and however it shows up for me in that energy of you know, shutting down, or my energy of freaking out, or my energy of wanting to run away, whatever is involved in that. But how do I start to access this counter vortex? How do I start to access this piece that is connected into feeling, in flow

in connected into life force energy, connected into wholeness. So ultimately that's what this work is about, is dabbling into the counter vortex to then dip back into the trauma vortex in a tie traded way, because when we're in the depth of our patterns, it's really hard to work with. But when we can learn to explore our risk sponses in a small way, it's easier to find a new road to start to travel down. So when we think of the counter vortex, it's like, what what do I

experience there? When I think of connection, someone who supports me, someone who um I know is there for me, and like we said earlier, sometimes that's not available. So then it's like, what furry friend do I have that I feel some connection with, or what location place do I have connection with that allows me to feel less of the trauma vortex and more of the counter vortex, more

access into the sense of wholeness. If I take a moment and just imagine or remember a place, a person, a thing that allows me to feel a little more connected what happens in my body? How do I dip into this counter vortex by allowing my system to recognize, like, hey, that river is still there, let's kind of dip out of the vortex a little the trauma wartex and into a little this bit of the sense of feeling a

little more supportive. So for me, nature is a big one, right, whether that's going out into nature or even just thinking of the place that I feel supportive in nature. And then all of a sudden that vortex feels less intense, and I can remind myself like, oh, here I am connected into something that is less intense. Isn't always great, and I feel totally connected and supported, but it's at least kind of veering in the direction of wholeness, right,

especially fullness isn't available yet. Yeah. No, That's what I find so interesting about what you have helped me do is understand that we can hold multiple experiences at one time. And just because maybe I'm now connected with the sense of wholeness doesn't and thank you for reminding me of this, by the way, doesn't mean that I'm going to be completely out of not now out of my uncomfortable experience. Like I can actually hold both of those places at

the same time. All Right, we're gonna pause for just a moment, but when we come back, we're going to be diving a bit deeper into the vortex of trauma. Welcome back, my loves. So just to kind of give people a little bit of a simple practice of being able to notice when we are in the trauma vortex as you call it, and then be able to come out of that trauma vortex is to think of or go out and experience something that makes us feel connected.

And by the way, the imagination is incredible, Like you're saying, we don't have to walk out to nature. We really can just imagine that and imagine that feeling of being in that space. So that's the counter. How do people know, especially when we have not become aware of our trauma, how do we begin to become aware of our trauma? What is what's like the first step and becoming aware of that. Yeah, I think the first step is just starting to be curious and what you experience in your

body when you are noticing yourself triggered. So, oh, I'm noticing I'm getting in this argument with my partner, and I can sense my jaw clunching, and I can feel a tightness in my belly, and I can feel my hands wanting to be a fist. Now I feel a tightness in my throat and I can't even say anything right.

It's so I'm paying attention to how my body is changing as I'm in these situations that might be triggering, that are moving being more into some sort of fight or flee energy or some sort of shutdown energy where it's like and ultimately shutdown shows up because feeling is too much. All of this is too much. Let's put a put the brakes on and not feel anything, which we're all very good at doing. So, so it's starting to just pay attention to how do I notice myself?

How am I experiencing myself in these situations? And then I invite not only in situations where you're triggered, but in situations where you're feeling enjoyment expansion, when you're having a social engagement with friends, Like, how do you notice connection? How do you notice a sense of receiving support? Right? Like?

What does that feel like? Oh, I'm hanging out with my friends and I'm noticing the sense of warmth and my stomach and this expansion and this like wanting to make contact and lean in, and you know what's showing up in ultimately all the situations throughout your life. How is it your body showing up? How is it your nervous system showing up? Because there's so much to learn from those places, So to start just by paying attention

what are you experiencing? Because wholeness, which was something that I found fascinating. Wholeness allowed me to connect with joy in a new way that my my experience of wholeness was like, oh wow, and and joy is really true joy, I think is has been very challenging for me to connect with. The sense of play has been very challenging for me to connect with just because I mean, I didn't really have much of a childhood and like this

very dampened. So when I started to experience wholeness for the first time, and even just the thought of like, wow, I'm whole, like completely whole already, and then truly feeling into that was oh, this is my natural joyous state, like and it it is available. It was such a relief to feel that. But it was truly, I think probably the first time I had felt joy, like real joy. So amazing it is. It's a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful experience. And I do have that some days I have more

access to it than others. Um but just even having that first experience. Once we have that one experience, we know that it's we know that it does exist. And I think that's a beautiful thing. That's it, and that's so thank you, such a beautiful thing. Hell yeah, it's a beautiful sign that you're no longer or less than

the vortexas. And as the vortexas start to shift, as the vortexas start to become smaller, as you move through the pieces of the trauma, the river gets bigger and you have more and more access to your true essence, which is emotions in their purest form, joy being one of them, right, which is so beautiful. And yeah, I mean so many of us are really living in in trauma at this moment in time and being triggered in ways that I think we have to get curious about.

Or I mean, for me, I'm triggered in new ways all the time. And I think curiosity is so key at this moment in time because judgment is judgment is the first place that we normally go instead of I feel like, instead of curiosity, do you have any thoughts on ways too? I guess it's really recognizing when we are in judgment and choosing differently choosing to be curious instead of judgmental. I think even just the contrast of

noticing contraction versus expansion can be helpful. One easier way to look at it is when do I feel contraction and when do I feel expansion? Often with judgment or fear, or with whatever people's patterns are relative to those situations, there's probably a contractiveness to it. And then with joy, with playfulness, with engaging with other humans, with really feeling safe, there's more of a sense of expansion to it. And there can be too far expanded where we're just lost

in la la land a little bit. But the curiosity of when do I feel expansiveness and when do I feel contraction, just the curiosity around that might give more insight, might lead to more curiosity because even if I'm in one of my survival patterns and noticing with curiosity, there's a bit more space versus if I'm in it, there's going to be more contractive. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank

you for clarifying. Um. I of course, being the musician that I am, I'm always interested in the way music affects people's lives, and because I do think it's so powerful it's such a powerful art form. And I wanted on this podcast to start something called the Holy Five, which was it's basically five songs that either describe your life or pieces pieces of you, or maybe that make you feel and that maybe make you feel different things

and and and relate to different pieces of you. So I would love to talk to you about what your love of music is and what those five songs are for you. Yeah, I love that you're adding this. I'm one of those people that never knows what who the artist is or what the song name is. But I love listening to music, and depending on my experience, depends on what type of music I'm listening to. Like I'll go through phases of just wanting to listen to classical music,

and I'm like, what the hell is this? Okay for rolling with this, but there's something in my system that's like craving classical or or classic guitar. I went through this like phase of just wanting to listen to classical guitar music and I was like, what is this? Um? And then I find also depending on what my nervous system state is on on a daily basis, it changes what kind of music I want to listen to. So I really value this question because it's something that's in

my awareness. Like when I'm feeling more feisty, or when there's some anger or aggression or frustration in I pull in my high school punk playlist. Yeah, and I have literal playlists for every emotion. It's a way to express those feelings that we sometimes cannot or have a challenging time getting in touch with on our own, you know, yeah, totally. So yeah, I really appreciate what are you fine? So it depends on my moon. One of my always go too, and it has been for a long time is Xavier

Rudd Spirit First. And I used to live in Whistler and and Xavier right used to live in Whistler before he became big, and he would play at all the app Ray Bars and I would follow him everywhere and go see all his shows. So I have a real connection to his music because it's very soulful. He's very connected he when he plays it feels like it's reaching me at a soul level. It has this richness to it and this depth to it. And I really really

value his music. I love it. I feel like people are going to start introducing me to musicians that I didn't even know about, which is so cool. So you don't know what Exavier red, I don't. I don't think I do. And I'm going to go listen. Definitely, I'm excited. Definitely, I have a feeling you don't know anyone. I'm going to tell you My other go to song right now is it has a lot of real richness to it from a love perspective. It's this couple based out of Victoria, BC.

They're called Akie Elliott and this song is a run to you and I've seen them in concert a couple of times. They're this gorgeous couple that just speak at a deeper level. Like the way they play to one another and with one another, you can just feel love. And this song, yeah, it's it's got this beautiful flow to it and this exchange to it. It's my like number one go to right now. And then sensuality and

sexuality is something that's big in my life right now. Again, we were talking a little bit about the feminism that's really live and well for me right now, this expression of self and really tapping into more sexuality. And there's this one song called Acoustic by and I might say his name wrong. Billy rough fool Tutor home. Oh oh I love that song. Oh my god, you don't need to be oh we need just exactly. Oh my god, it's so good. Yes, that's what between and simple. I

love it. Yeah, I play it often. It's such a good. Yes, and then I want to throw a punk song in there because it's so it's so good, like as soon as there's any aggravation or anger or discuss, the sounds really good for discuss. It's called the anti love song by bad Cop Bad Cop, and it's like she makes the black black black sound in it all the time.

But I feel like that's why the sounding you make me make discussed, So that one's Yeah, anytime there's some sort of anger, I find my puked onto that song. And then I'm going to cheat on my fifth song and just name a band because I could listen to this band for hours. It makes they think of road tripping music, and that's camp c A A M. B. Wish More Lishen and do streak your thank you And I don't know, but I totally feel like I would

love them, Yeah, definitely would. So that's that's my thanks for sharing those because I feel like I feel like I get a little more in depth of like what moves you totally, which is cool. Yeah, happy, Thank you so much for coming on here, and thank you for being my very first um. I have so enjoyed having you on here. You have truly, truly made a difference in my life. I'll start crying talking about that too,

but you have. You've made such a difference in my world and the way I experienced life, and I'm grateful, honored to have the other my life and with the fort you and that thank you. Alright, everyone, That is it for this week's Holy Human. I so loved connecting with Nicole and with you. Next week I am going to be welcoming a super cool guy to my podcast. He is my dear friend, Lewis House, and we're going to be talking all things about vulnerability and what an

incredible superpower it is. So until then, I wish you much love, clarity, and wholeness. I love you. Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes is a production of I Heart Radio. Thank you listen and follow Holy Human on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Eight