Lewis Howes on The Superpower of Vulnerability

you his name. He's one of those friends whose text always include let me know how I can support you, and I almost feel bad when I don't text you back telling me how he can, because I know he genuinely means it where most people don't. He genuinely, genuinely wants to support me and all of his friends and everything that we do. I first met him when he reached out to me over Instagram and asked if we can meet for lunch. He wanted to have me on his podcast, but he wanted to get to know me

before the podcast. I usually I don't care who you are, but I don't say yes to an invitation like that at all. But something in me told me to go against my usual avoidance of people and say yes. So I did, and then the rest is history, which we'll get into whether he knows this or not, he for sure will after this podcast. He's been one of the main influences and me starting this Holy Human podcast and creating a chant record, which we'll get into the stories

around that as we go along. Lewis House wants to see other succeed, which is somewhat a rarity in the world these days. He is as magnetic as they come, and for me, his influence in my life came out of nowhere, and I'm certainly glad it did. He's a New York Times best selling author of the School of Greatness and The Mask of Masculinity. He's a highly respected lifestyle coach and motivator, a former professional football player to Sport All American, and he remains a competitive athlete. He's

an all around gray dude. And I'm so happy the roles have reversed and I get to have him on my podcast this time. So without further ado, whose House? Everyone wording you with me? Hi, Hey, welcome, Welcome to my Holy Human podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. I'm so excited. I'm so glad you're doing this. Yeah, well, you are one of the reasons that I'm doing this, just so you know that's good. Well, I think you've really encouraged me to use my voice in a new way.

It was because I came on your a podcast that you asked me to chant right there. It's amazing, thank you, And I got so much feedback from people asking me to please do a record of that, and so that put it in my mind. And then coming to do your Summit of Greatness and speaking and being with you up there and getting to chant and have people chant back at me and leading that whole live moment was so magical, was unbelievable. It was so cool. I still

get chills thinking about no I just saying that. I was like, it was the first moment of the event

and it was just like quiet. You came on stage after an eruption of applause and then you just sat down and uh you know, sat on the stage and you did your thing and people were in tears, and I was like, your voice is feeling for so many people, and they need to hear your voice in this in this in this manner, in this fashion, in this creative way, because you've been doing it for so long in a in a different way which has been extremely effective and

inspirational in its own right. But I think with the world struggling so much, and so much uncertainty and insecurity for people, and mental health and overwhelming stress and anxiety, we need people like you who can provide a gift. And you've got an incredible gift, thank you. We need more vulnerable people, people who are willing to share their stories. I mean, all of us have stories that live inside

of us. We are one big, giant human story, and we all need to be sharing our stories, and especially at this moment in time, because there are stories are what connect us, and we can look at someone else and here, here's someone else's story and say, I am not alone in this world and there's so much division and so much ah, there's there's just everything feels so lost. I even I feel very lost at this moment, and

I think that can be a very good thing. That's a great It can be a great thing to be lost, because you also have so much opportunity within that moment to create a new you, a new world. And so I feel like we are in such need of connecting through story at this moment. Absolutely, I agree, and I think it's unfortunate that we need pain or some type of breakdown in order for us sometimes to really get

growth and to improve and to have a breakthrough. But unfortunately, that's how human beings work until there's some type of major breakdown where it really affects us. Right, that's we need to step back and have reflection. That's why I think it's so important to to listen to meditation or to listen to your chance, or to journal, because when we can reflect on the pain, then we can have progress.

And that's that's what we need. More of reflection you have, I know you've gone through a lot of pain in your life. Do you feel like, now, at this point in your life, you can actually choose those moments of change or do you still feel like you have to go through a painful moment to to continue to grow. I feel like, for the things I've already learned, I don't need to go through those moments of pain anymore

because I can see it when it comes up. If something triggers me, I can see it and say no, I've already learned that lesson and a much calmer in my reactions to situations. Two events, for example, UH, twelve years ago, I was uh playing football, I was chasing the dream to make the NFL, but I was only in the Arena Football League, so I was getting paid two d fifty dollars a week. But it was like the greatest moment of my life because I was getting

paid to do what I loved. You probably can relate to our under empathize with the singer songwriters who have become famous after a while. But they they played for three people in those smoky bars for so many nights, but they made sixteen dollars from the door, and it was like, Man, I'm getting paid to sing my music. That's how it felt for me. And I got injured and I had to stop playing, so my dream was essentially crippled. Imagine not only losing your vocal chords and

not being able to do your dream anymore. This is what happened to me as an athlete. And this was right in two thousand seven, going into two thousand and eight two nine, when the economic crisis hit. Back then, when the housing crisis and people are losing jobs, all these things were happening. I went through the worst of it. Then.

I was feeling so much pain, so much uncertainty. I had no money, I was living on my sister's couge for a year and a half, trying to figure out who am I, what am I gonna do with the rest of my life? Who would ever give me any money? What are my skills? I have no idea what my value is or why I'm here anymore, because my dream is over. And that was painful. But it's so funny because it took a couple of years for me to

figure things out. It took a lot of humiliation, being humble, uh, you know, asking for advice, asking for help over and over again until I was able to get out of it and figure out what I need to do to improve. And it's funny because in March when COVID hit uh, I remember saying, oh, this is why I went through that much pain us. Now it can be a source of inspiration. I can provide a safe space and environment. I can give perspective to people that are going through

that now. And I have felt like the last eight months have been challenging in their own way, but I haven't lost myself. I feel like people are coming to my platform and to me more than ever because of the way I'm reacting and responding and the way I'm able to shift and adapt and take care of my health and my routines. And I think it's I'm grateful that I went through the pain in the past because

it allows me to be prepared in the present. And it's funny because in the moment, when it seems like it's so chaotic for our lives are happening, I'm going through a breakup or I'm losing my business or whatever, it feels like, gosh, why is this happening to me? And it's not until we can actually reflect and look in the future and say, this is happening for me in a powerful way, and I need to trust and have faith in the future that I need this specifically

to happen. And when order for something greater to happen, then I feel like you're talking directly to me at the moment. It's one of the hardest things to do to to have hindsight now is something I learned the hard way. I went through a breakup a couple of

years ago. It was kind of a nasty breakup because the person I was dating took things public that wasn't true, and I felt like I wasn't able to really share my side of the story ever, but people just took this little thing and then they gossiped and they spread and whatever they wanted to spread, right, But for me,

I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. All these people that I thought I could trust in my friends and relationships, now I see them talking about my back or spreading these things, and it was very hurtful, and I remember thinking, man, this is not fair. This sucks um And it was kind of like this two three months window of like, man, this is really you know, this is kind of doesn't feel good. But I kept saying to myself, I need to have hindsight. Now, this

is happening in my favor. This is going to bring me better perspective, it's gonna make me more humble. I want to know who my real friends are. It's gonna eliminate distractions from my life that are holding me back. And all those things were true as I look back a couple of years now, I found out who my real friends were. I I reorganized my priorities, like, I improved my life and I took ownership of it. So

we gotta have hindsight now. Yeah, absolutely, that is something I remind myself of all the time is this is happening for me? I mean to be honest, when you were just saying, you know, uh, being on someone's couch and your sister's couch and not knowing what you're gonna do with your life. Look, I've been on my own couch now since March, and I've been I was touring my whole life since I was thirteen. I have not come off the road like this ever. You know, I've

had all of these ideas. I had the idea to do a podcast, I've had the idea to do a chant record, and I'm working on a new album also in the middle of all of this. But at the beginning of this year, my question was, Oh, I'm touring so much. I wonder, like where I'm gonna have the time to create all this new stuff. And then bam, hello, and so now I have all this time. But in the midst of all of that, yes, I still have things I'm creating, and I still know who I am.

But there's a piece of me that is really kind of renewing and creating. I'm creating new avenues and new ways once again for me to utilize my gifts. And that's scary. As shit like it is scary. It's scary as ship. When you have your your livelihood just and I know so many people understand that ripped out from under you, Like you know, you get injured all of a sudden, you that's your livelihood, whether you're making two

or fifty bucks or millions of dollars, is gone. I think it's interesting the idea of identity because anytime we strip our identity or identity is stripped from us, whether it's I'm choosing not to do something, I'm retiring from something. When you see an athlete who's been doing someboding for so long on this so you know what, I'm retiring, a lot of them go through depression for a few years because they're holding onto the the the identity of the past that is no longer there. And it's almost

like we need to have an identity death. We need to kill the death of that person and allow for a rebirth. Like you talked about, this takes time. This isn't just like Okay, I'm gonna kill this old way of me that I've been doing for twenty years and

be this new person overnight. There is a an offseason that needs to happen in sports for you to reflect on the season, and for you to rest and to try different things and to recover and then to train again and try to develop new skills, work on weaknesses, to develop new skills, to prepare for the new season. And there were many seasons where I was like, you know what, I don't think I want to play this sport anymore, whether it be in high school or college.

I was like, I'm done with this. I've I've taken this to as far as I want to have accomplished things, So I just don't care as much anymore and I'd rather go do this. And I think that's part of I use a lot of sports analogies, but I think for me, holding onto the glory days of an old identity, an old relationship we are a part of for a decade that is no longer there. It's very hard to let go of an identity of you with another person. This is why it takes time to to grieve and

let go it. And that's a that's just a challenging process. That's why I see a lot of artists someone who's done this great as Madonna. I think she's reinvented herself every five years and it's like, Okay, this was great in the past in my twenties and thirties, but it no longer works for me. So I need to reinvent for what's gonna work for me now to make an impact, to give my message out there, uh, and to have

fun in her stage of life. So it's it's a challenging thing to kill the ego and the identity and how do you So what we're talking about is that space in between, right, So there's the in between space. Talk about that in between space for a moment and how how do you allow yourself grace in that in between space? Isn't it? There's a I can't remember the exact quote from yo Yo Ma, but I think he said the music is the notes between is like played in between the notes, when the melody is in between

the notes. I'm not sure if that's the exact quote, but something like my I heard that quote from Yoyoma something like that, and then I heard my friend Rob Bell, who's a spiritual teacher, and he says, like love is you create love in the space between coming together of two people. It's not when you're around the person all the time. It's actually when you're not around them when you get experience the love and to see how deep

the depth of love is. And I think when we have space in between something, that's when we can truly reflect and see what is here. Where's the magic, Where's the juice? It's the pause, you know. It's not when someone's speaking non stop. It's when they stop and allow you to sink it in of that moment. And I think we have conditioned ourselves with the idea of being the most productive we can be, filling up our plates and and overflowing our plates with things to do that

we don't spend enough time stopping. And it's funny. I was just listening to a book on audio today called Essentialism, which uh he literally right when I stopped it. He literally said, some of the greatest thinkers and artists of our past and of today schedule in fun and nothing time in their scout and their calendars, like two hour blocks of nothing to allow themselves to think and problem solve and ask themselves those questions, as opposed to filling

up their calendar all day long. So I think it's something to be aware of. Is the space between the doing is where we can really create some magic. All right, we're gonna take a quick breath, but we'll be right back with much more. Louis in a super simple way I found to really connect from home. Welcome back everyone.

We are here with my friend Lewis House. One of my practices that I've been doing while I've been at home is to go outside and sit, not breathe, not like not distract myself with the meditation or whatever else it is I'm doing, Like literally go outside and by the way, nature is the best TV screen of life that we'd never ever turn on, and so like just to walk outside and sit. And I started doing it.

When I started doing it was like three or four minutes because it's very activating because we always have something going on and so and now I can I can go out and sit for a good like thirty forty minutes just like and during that time, I'll want to move, i want to get up, but I'm like, just just sit, just be, just be, And and there is there's some magic there because we allow in the way when you're talking about in that space, it allows for things to

start pouring into us, like we That for me is the moment where I connect with with everything. We we really start to feel our connection with with nature, with others, with the universe, with God. And that's some some of the times where we actually well. For me, I actually just sit still and allow things to come to me. That's the receiving time. You know, we talked, we're always doing. It's like and I think it's so challenging for a

lot of us to receive, to receive ideas, to receive love. Um, that for me has been has been a challenging piece is receiving in the in the in the law of attraction, you know, philosophies or war Old they'll say, anytime you're chasing something, you're resisting it. You're acting like you don't have it, and therefore it you'll resist it or it

will resist you. But when you allow and you allow us, and you act as if you know what this is coming to me, I'm going to allow this to happen through my daily actions and by trusting the process, uh, then you allow for it to come. It's it's like when you've ever had a needy boyfriend in the past, you're like someone needs you, You're like, okay, get away, or needy girlfriend you're like, uh, you don't trust yourself enough to be alone in your own space. You need

someone else to bring you that thing. Then that thing will reject you. So it's uh, I think it's powerful you're doing that. My girlfriend is reminding me to do this more and more as a someone who wants to, you know, create and achieve and make things. I'm reminded to, like, you know what takes some time in the morning and just sit with our dog and let our dog with my face for ten minutes and just not be in production mode or productive mode and allow for these kind

of beautiful moments in between the actions. Yeah, it was interesting how my chant record came through because it was I would sit in meditation and then press play on my phone and then just start singing, and I would see what felt good, and when something ended up feeling good, that was it, and then I'd expand upon it. And so I literally was sitting there going, I'm yours, like I'm your vessel come through me, and I think that,

you know it's that trust piece. Actually have trust tattooed on my wrist um and I did it years ago because I knew I needed to trust the universe. More myself more, and I need to dress others more. And so it's that trust piece that's so important that I feel like we're all being we all have an invitation

to really lean into. Like I almost feel like there's there's no other option at this point, Like we have we have to trust, trusting the process, and I think trusting yourself to have discernment with the people you're working with, because you obviously we talked about an our interview. You've got you know, burned so many times by people's people, a lot of people closest to you, uh, and not even just the media or the industry, but people close

to you for many years. And I think that's hard for someone who gets taken advantage of or burned in that way to figure out, Oh, do I trust myself to make decisions on the people around me? But trusting the processes of something I have written down all the time. Do you find it easier these days? Like all the all the work that you've done on yourself, and you know, do you do you find that it's do you find

that that becomes an easier thing to do? It is just because I'm learning to trust and surrender more and more there's so many things that have happened this year that are out of our control. And I am witnessing a lot of people that I know, whether publicly or privately, a lot going it to consume their thoughts, consume their their heart, consume their entire emotions to where it cripples them. And I see them in the way they're posting online, I see them in the way they communicate with me,

and I'm like, I could consume my thoughts around. I don't have control over the election. I don't have the control over this thing. I don't have the control over what people are doing in business. I don't have control over my employee. I could. I could obsess over this, and it will make me sick. It'll make me physically sick, emotionally sick, mentally sick, and I'll make poor decisions. So a leader, what I've learned, doesn't react to the environment

in a negative way. Reacts from a place of vision. Okay, let me go back to my vision. I have no control over anything that's happening except for the way I show up my actions, my intentions, my words. Uh, how I schedule things, the things I watch, and the things as I say I can control the way I respond, and so it's just putting into practice not reacting from a place of anger all the time, because that anger

really doesn't make me feel good. And then I am a ripple effect in my personal relationships, in my business, and so I come from a place of vision as often as I can. I'm not perfect. That's still react in a negative way here and there, but I am able to see things differently at thirty seven than it was at thirty three, you know, seven, And I'm sure I have a long way to go still, um, but I can notice it a lot faster and it's I

feel just so much more inner peace. And I think that's the thing that a lot of people are missing, is how to cultivate inter peace because we live in such a negative state of mind as opposed to a beautiful state of mind. And um, I want to be in a beautiful state. Yeah, I think we all desire that so deeply, But no one can give that to us.

No one can give us a beautiful, peaceful state. It's something we must cultivate moment to moment based on the tools we developed for ourselves, whether it be therapy tools or other mantras. Or meditation or time, whatever may be for each individual. I am constantly looking to develop new tools in order for us to cultivate more beautiful states of mind than uh, negative states of mind. And what

my meditation teacher calls a suffering state. If we're not if we're not in a beautiful state, then we are in a suffering state. And we can choose to be in a beautiful state more frequently by utilizing the tools of our of our that we have available for us. And for example, every day, something is going to happen that could upset us. It can potentially upset us, let

us down, hurt us. Uh, someone breaks their words, someone doesn't show up on time, someone in the and uh, you know when you're driving, up set you, cutting you off, someone hurts you in a massive way. And I am not saying we shouldn't feel the feelings of pain and hurt and upset and grief and loss. I think these are all powerful emotions to feel. But when we stay in these motions of a negative state more frequently, it's

really hard to lead our lives. It's really hard to be there for our friends and family, it's really hard to create our dreams at a high level when we're suffering more frequently than when we're in a beautiful state. And so I just feel like it's my responsibility to cultivate the tools I need in order to be in a beautiful state. Well, and it is about that flow between the two I have found of it's not about denying those feelings. It's not about not feeling those feelings

that are more quote un challenging. Um, there's nothing wrong with those, like you said, but it is about like it starts to be like, how how can I feel those? And then how quickly can I come back into equanimity? And it becomes this dance that we get better and better at with, like you're saying, with the tools that we used to cultivate that dance. But it's uh, it's

that really to me is the the practice. The life practice is first off, life is the practice, right, Like, what we're getting at is to be able to live. I feel like what we're getting at is being able to live in a more in a flow state where we're not denying. We're not denying the shadow, we're not denying the light, we're not denying the human, we're not denying the holy, like we flow back and forth and allow the whole experience to be lived through us. Now,

that's not easy to do. It's and it can be very uncomfortable. And I think part of the tools that I have been, you know, cultivating, is being able to live in that discomfort, to be able to expand my container of how much I can hold with grace and love and you know, and just the challenge of sitting on my couch and you know is that is a practice for me. That is a practice. How can I do this with with as much grace and love and

kindness for myself as possible? And how can I not allow my head to spin out, because it's the first thing that wants to do. It's so easy to get spun out. I mean, for you, what's your main tool right now to to cultivate that kinder frame of mind? I just have compassion for myself. Compassion being the tool I guess my you know, I'm grateful that I have a block away from me. I have my studio that I go to from my my apartment that I'm living in.

I think it'd be very challenging def compassion if I was only in my apartment all day long from the last eight months, so having a place to go my my girlfriend is living with me and she is there pretty much all day. So having compassion for her, knowing that her identity has shifted a lot during this time, and me not getting frustrated but understanding and how a perspective that this is something we're going through right now.

And what it does for me is that compassion forces me to level up my my skills and um, there's certain things that I don't want to do, but I'm learning how to do better, becoming a better listener, being more patient when I'm just like, no, let's let's move on, let's do this, come on, just like get over it. But it's like, okay, no, it doesn't work that way for everyone. So I need to have a lot of patients,

which I typically don't have. I need to be a little bit better listener, even when I feel like I've communicated exactly what I need to communicate. You know, all these things make me better, and so I look at it as this is all happening in my favor for something greater in the future. I need to have hindsight now, which constantly brings me back to hindsight now this concept.

In a year, I will look back to this challenging moment, this challenging conversation, this month, whatever it may be, and I'll say I needed that exactly for this reason a year from now. And so I keep putting myself in the future now, and that that space between gives me perspective from that time and that distance, and um, that's what's really helpful. But you know, I'll give an example. My my girlfriend's uh, former TV producer who she worked with every single day for a few years, just passed

away suddenly two days ago. And I only met her a few times, so it's not like she was a friend of mine, but I met her a few times, but her energy impacted me in a powerful way. And this isn't and she's she didn't even speaks English, so I didn't even have a conversation with her, but her energy was very impactful. And it was very sad that she died very drastically in the last couple of days

out of the blue. And as I was sitting in kind of comforting my girlfriend and she's kind of watching the TV and the news about it, and she's why stching these videos that they made about this woman who passed away, she's reflecting on it. I'm watching these videos and I'm in tears for a good five to ten minutes watching this with her, allowing myself to feel, allowing

myself to sink into it. Even though this wasn't a close friend of mine, I had met her, and just watching someone's life, a beautiful life, slip away and be gone made me so sad, made me so sad, and it gave me perspective of man, these things that I'm frustrated with right now don't matter, Like these things don't matter. When tomorrow I could be gone, When tomorrow my girlfriend could be gone, when my mom could be gone, I

don't know. We don't know. And one day I'm gonna be sitting around talking to my friends and you won't be here. Or one day you're gonna be sitting around talking to your friends about this conversation we had and I would no longer be here. Hopefully that is not for decades for either one of us. But we don't know. And I could be gone tomorrow, You could be gone tomorrow.

Something we don't know. And I think that tool of death and perspective around death brings me back into a place of perspective of it could all like things are so fragile, we have no idea when it's gonna be over. Why suffer when we the opposite of joy is so much better? And again I felt sadness in that moment,

and I felt sadness the last few days. But I said, what can I do in this moment for my life to lead with a sense of purpose and vision, to make a better impact with the gifts that I have, so that if I die tomorrow, I was living my vision just the way this woman was living her vision at a high level, high energy, positive, powerful, And I'm like, at least she went out impacting people, living her truth.

And that's the way. That's the tool that I want to have to interest saying yeah, it's funny because this podcasts has definitely stretched me beyond my comfort whatever. Why do you think no, I just because I'm doing something completely different. First of all, I've never been on the the questioning side of things, Like I'm always the receiver of questions that I I'm great at being able to come back and answer things, but to to have to be to be on the other side of things is

challenging for me, and it's terrifying. I've literally you should have seen me before we got on. I'm literally breathing, and I'm like, it's gonna be okaying, thank you, thank you. I can't even tell You're doing amazing. You're very natural. Thank you very much. But it's um, it's new, and I think I don't I don't think I don't like people seeing my uh my process. Like ever since I was yeah, you know, like ever since I was little.

I I did this one thing and I did really freaking well, and I perfected it and and I perfect I've perfected the art of the interview also of being on the other side, like I've I've had all of these things that I just I know I can do, and I've that has been my I won't even call it comfort zone. It's actually been my my death like it's been it has. It's been the death of a piece of me that I haven't allowed out and allowed

to grow. And this new challenge is is part of my growth and I know I'm I'm choosing it now and I know I have to do this for myself because you talk about vision, and I think of where I want to be in a year from now or even when I'm done with the first you know series of these podcasts. I think about where I'm going to be, and I know what I have to do to get there, and I know I have to sit in this damn

discomfort of feeling fear and doing it anyway. And you know, I mean, I look at going to your your event, when I came to your event, and I told you, I'm terrified, like I'm terrified of being seen in this way because it's a new way for me and this is a new way for me to be seen. So when I think of I think I I completely agree with you on the vision part is like, Oh, I have this dream, I have this I have this almost like this bodily feeling that I know where I'm supposed

to be. I know what's going to be on the other side of that, and I have to have to do this right now for myself. I have to make these choices in order to get there. And that's what I feel like. That's what vision does, is it gives you the drive and the will to be able to sit in the discomfort. Here's a here's an exercise I try to do every year for myself at the end of the year, most people think of like, Okay, let me reflect on the year and what I accomplished in

my news resolutions. I think of my um my fear list. I think, in order to become fearless, I need to create a fear list. Oh gotta love this. Okay, tell me more. And so every year I try to find three big fears at the end of the year, or it could be at any time during the year, but I'm like, Okay, this is something I'm afraid of, and I put it on my fear list. And this list I'll rank at the end of the year, and I'll say, what are the things that are holding me back the most?

What are these fears? I have five fears, twenty fears whatever. It could be something small. It could be like I'm afraid to have conversations with my family about this thing. I'm afraid to launch a chant uh you know record, I'm afraid to open up about soriosis. All these different things, right, whatever they are. Create a list and then and then circle the top three the ones that make the top of the list the greatest fears, and I make it

my mission to go all in on those fears. That next year so that they no longer on are on the list, so that I fully have embraced it. I've become you know, uh, I've become bad man essentially, where I'm afraid of the bats, and then I become the bat because I live in the darkness with the bats, so that they don't I'm not afraid of them anymore, and then I have power over on them. And it's it's something that I try to do every year. This

year it's it's Spanish. It's been something for twenty years I've been wanting to learn, and I'll always download a Spanish app and I'll always do this thing, but I never fully commit. So this year I finally committed. I'm doing three days a week private lessons an hour at a time. I'm paying for it. I found a teacher and it's scheduled in my calendar and I tell you what, I am horrible. I am so bad, and it's it.

I hate it. It's so much insecurity around it. Because I usually do things that i'm really good at at, or natural at, picking up or an extension of something i'm good at so that I can excel at it. I'm not excelling at this and it's painful, and it's sucks, and it hurts the ego, all these things, but it's

exactly what I need. And it's also gratifying the fact that I'm proud of myself for showing up consistently, even if I'm not learning it as quick as i'd like, even if I sound like a second grader half the time. It's great for my ego. It's great for my growth, and I focus on that. Also another thing, I think I'm gonna saw this. I haven't taken out, but I haven't VISI line in and I have been like afraid of getting bracest for the last twenty years, and it's

something I'm like, ah, but it's I'm gonna look insecure. Uh, you know, people are gonna see my teeth and make fun of me. I'm on camera, I take photos like this isn't gonna look good. It's gonna hurt my brand. And I was just like, it's just it's not okay. I just need to lean into this and accept it and trust the process. That this is more important for my health because my actually back teeth were not actually touching.

It's more important for my digestion because I wasn't able to chew my food properly, more than vanity than anything. And I'm like, do I want, you know, decades of health or do I wanna um uh for a couple of years of pain or continue to be insecure about this for the rest of my life. And so there's things that I do that I don't want to do every year and they served me at the greatest level, and I'm so grateful and proud of myself for taking it on that it builds my confidence and also increases

my humility at the same time. Yeah, that's key you talk about brand I when I look at you and when I see all the things that you post on social media, I I find you first of all, I adore you, and I find you so very warm, and I do. But you feel so upbeat and driven and like fearless, And do you feel do you feel that way inside or is there or do you even do you ever feel like you can't show a piece of you? Because that is so that's so much of your message.

I choose to create that inside so that it becomes on the outside. Like if I'm not feeling good for whatever reason, or from feeling a little groggy in the morning for something or whatever. Um, I have tools where when I walk into a room, I I tell myself something. I have a mantra. I'm like, I'm gonna bring the

joy even if I'm not feeling it. And so when I walk through a doorway typically and I know someone's in there in the next room, whether it's my office or an event or whatever may be, literally just lift act as if like there's a string pulling from on top of the doorway. It's pulling me up. When I walked through the door, and I'm just say and I smile, instantly walked the door, lift your shoulders back, put your head up, and smile, and you start to attract that

energy to you. You start to notice it in other places, and you start to become it. So it's just it's a I wouldn't call fake it till you make it. It's just create it and become it. It's like, Okay, you need to choose joy. You need to choose uh, being outgoing when you don't when you feel introverted. You need to choose to work out when you want to relax. You need to choose these to meditate when you are feel stressed. You need to choose this, and it's a

moment by moment choice. And I'm not perfect all the time. Again, I'm not always happy, and sometimes with my brand online, I feel like so many people are dependent on me to bring some type of positive energy or to have the answers or whatever it may be. UM, I I feel like I have shared enough vulnerabilities that I'm still allowing myself to open up when I need to UM from my from myself online. But again, I try. I try to just work on these things all the time.

In my interviews that I do, I'm doing therapy. I'm doing it with other people and myself. I'm being vulnerable in my videos and audios and my long form content, UM, being vulnerable with my team, with my girlfriend, with my family. So I feel like I'm doing it all the time so that I don't suppress those emotions and get trapped into a state of depression. All Right, we're gonna take a brief pause, but when we come back, we're gonna

be tackling the very vulnerable topic of vulnerability. Welcome back. You talk about vulnerability. How what makes you choose to be vulnerable? Because it's scary, I mean, I don't feel like you can walk. I don't feel like you can be vulnerable without fear, some sort of fear walking along right beside that. Terrified, terrified. I mean, member when I when I opened up about sexual abuse seven years ago, it took me. I recorded the first off. I probably

talked about it for Yeah. I thought about doing an episode on it for six months. Um, it took me. It took me twenty five years just to tell a soul about it, and then it took me six to nine months of like, Okay, let me tell my family, let me tell my friends one on one, and terrified to tell one person. As I continued to tell more people, I kept asking myself, do I need to tell more people?

And I came to the decision of yes, because I felt like this still had power over me, this story of being sexually abused, the fear of people judging me if they knew this about me. I was like, no one would ever love me if they knew that I'd been sexually abused by a man. People would make fun of me for the rest of my life. It was just the stories that I had made up, and so the first time of sharing it with someone a family member. I was like, they may disown me. I don't know,

they may blame I have no idea. It's the unknown. And when the opposite happened, which was total love, total acceptance, total I'm here for you, and deeper vulnerability and trust and connection, I was like, wow, really, the thing I've been most afraid of has actually brought me closer to the people in my life, has actually created more empathy and compassion between each other. I was like, wow, okay, let me share this with a friend of mine. Now my family knows they have to love me well. A

friend accept me. And then I started sharing with a friend and another friend, and I was like, wow, they accept me. And I remember thinking, after a period of time, like I was still stuttering. As I would tell the story, as I would bring the attention to someone, as I would share this vulnerability, I would still get really sweaty.

I'd still you know, stumble. I was just like still nervous, which made me realize that this is a big fear of mine, and personally, I do made a decision I'm going all in on this until it no longer consumes me. Because I was coming from a place of reaction a lot of the times in my life when I felt abused uh or taken advantage of, or like something wasn't fair to me, it would bring me back to that

place of sexual abuse. And it was almost like I was recreating the sexual abuse in all these little moments of my life, triggered by the feeling of being abused. And I was just like, that does not serve my vision, that does not serve my joy, and that does not help me inspire the people. So I need to do the work and heal this. And I learned for my process was telling more people one by one by asking

them if I could share with them something. And then I decided, I think I should share this on my podcast, and so I found someone to help guide the conversation because I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna say. I'm terrified of this. I need someone who can guide me. We recorded it and I held it for six months. I had it on my blog like ready to publish, but I was like, this is gonna ruin me, Like my friends, my family has to love me, my friends

support me. My audience, I don't know, they may like make memes about me. I was just I was so unsure, and this was seven years ago. This is, in my opinion, I had never really seen other men who kind of looked like me and fit my archetype open up about sexual abuse. I wasn't seeing it happening or just open up and be vulnerable online in general. I just wasn't seeing it happened seven years ago, so it was terrifying to me. I saw women do this, but men needed

to be strong and be this thing or whatever. And I was like, man, this is gonna really hurt my brand, my business, like all these things, but it was more of a it wasn't an option anymore. I was just like, I don't care if everyone unfriends me. I don't care if the world criticized me for the rest of my life.

This will set me free by doing this. And I'm doing this and if it helps one person sin who one man who's been sexually abused and who has been a prisoner of this abuse for their whole life, It'll be worth it for me to lose everything if I can help one person. And this is why when I saw your post a week ago, I was so I

was smiling. I was so happy because I knew I knew internally I didn't know this about you, but I knew internally this was something that you've been You must have been insecure with for a long time to be able to not be able to talk about it openly. You must have felt like a prisoner in some sense in your own heart and mind. And that's why I was so proud of you for being completely vulnerable. It's not like you're just like, oh, check out my arm

i psoriasis. You were like, I am a naked human being in the woods, completely naked for the world to see my body, and how it's not, you know, quote unquote perfect, and I was just like, I was so happy. I just wanted to hug you right then. And if you'll notice, you know that that post has sixty likes, almost six thousand comments, essentially fifty times more than the

average post of a photo that you would get. And as I'm sure you're still having kind of an emotional hangover from this, where thousands of probably women and men are messaging you saying I've been going through something similar my entire life or my adult life and have been so insecure. Thank you for giving me the permission to not feel shame. Thank you for giving me the power to share this with a close friend. And by you taking on your fear list, you're becoming more fearless and

you're empowering other people to do the same. And that's where the beauty and yeah, that was that was so powerful for me to do and it is. It's as I was diagnosed when I was two years old, so I've lived with this my whole life and I hadn't hadn't had a break out in sixteen years, I guess, And so this time I was like, I'm being given this for a reason. I'm going to use this for all its worth and I'm going to free myself from something that I felt such shame around, like I never

wanted to go out in a bathing suit. In fact, this summer we went on a boat with friends and I literally wore like long pants and a T shirt. I still still was was just like I can't and these are people I know love me and accept me, and I I still hid. There was still this little girl in me that was like like you're saying, will I be accepted? Will they love me? And I know I had to accept that piece of myself, like I I know it came back in this time for a reason.

While I was sitting at home, while I was letting my head spin out, like whatever it may be, like, it all came rushing up and back to me to be to be shifted. And I I've done enough work to know like, oh, here's a lesson. I'm going time going, I'm going to learn this so I don't have to do this again. And you know, I really did take it and utilize it. And I I wanted, like you did with sexual abuse, to be able to number one, come out of my own hiding and to free myself

from that cage. And number two, I know there's so many people out there who not only experienced horiasis, but need the permission to find freedom like that, Really, whatever it is that you're hiding. My my friend always says, we're only as sick as our secrets, and and it's

so true. It's like, and we talk about stories and sharing our stories, like you know, look, you didn't hear a lot of men that fit your archetype talking about sexual abuse, because you have to lead the way sometimes and and there has to be people that eat the way. And it is amazing to me people who commented on that photo of mine and you know, talk about how much they're still hiding and whether or not they have it as a woman in the society to have to be perfect and think that we have to use all

the photoshop on our photos and all the things. Like I I have photos of me that I just did, um from a photo shoot, and before I released this, I was like, oh, we have to photoshop all of that out. And I know, look, I know I used I will completely use photoshop for what it needs to be used for. Um. You know, it has a time of place. But I felt the other day I looked at that photo and I was like, I don't think

I want to photoshop that out of that. I think I want people to experience another piece of me besides that photo. Like there's there's such power in it. There really is that vulnerability. I know. I read where you said that it's like a superpower, and it's I think the biggest superpower that we hold it within us. Well,

I think what I've learned. I mean, I was getting a lot of results in my life as an athlete and then transitioning into business in my twenties and late twenties, but it was something I guess it was right around when I hit thirty, when I started opening up about the sexual abuse. It was something about like being vulnerable, really truly being vulnerable. There was like I created a deeper sense of trust with people, my my friends, my family, and also kind of my community. It was like, you know,

I liked you before, Louis. You're nice, you were fun, you were like you achieved, like you did awesome things. But now I really trust you and I'm you know, listen, I'm gonna make mistakes and I'm not going to be perfect my whole life. But it's like this sense of like, Okay, yeah, I just believe him more, like everything he does, like I just something about it. I just feel a little bit more trustworthy. Even if you trusted people trust you before,

it's like, now I really trust her. H if she's willing to go out and share that, like she's real. And I think that's that's something that people can learn, is it. It's a superpower in the fact that you're strengthening your late relationships with the people around you, whether you have an audience and a platform or not, You're deepening relationships and the the true um key to success

in life is relationships. And so if your relationships are at a seven because you're not vulnerable and people don't trust you, you're gonna get seven results in those relationships and in life. But if you're fully open again with the right context, I think there's a There are some people that are just throwing up vulnerabilities all day long

on social media to use it for attention. Uh, when it's a consistent day after day after day, you're like, Okay, there's there's a game behind this, so you have to be really careful about how you're doing this. I think there can be manipulation because then it's like the sympathy, there can be a manipulation to that. Also, that's the

shadow side of vulnerability. I believe that we're seeing. I feel like people are turning vulnerability into a business and it's and and it's yeah, and it's it's kind of oh, it's almost like the person that's revealing something, it's like, have you really processed that yet to be able to reveal that? Are you just using it for manipulation? There is there is a shadow side to that or for likes or for yeah, And I think you gotta and you gotta check yourself before you post something to ask

is this to serve people? Or is this for me to get attention when I'm not getting right now? And I remember asking many when I opened up with the sexual abuse, and I again, I held it for six months before I published the interview that I did. I remember asking many female leaders in the space and saying, listen, I'm thinking about doing this. Will you please look this over.

When you look over the post, we listen to it and make sure that I'm not doing anything out of integrity, for manipulation, for whatever people thinking I'm using this to get attention, because my whole intention is to set myself free and to support any other men who might have gone through this. And so I got feedback from women who I trusted and respected to kind of like give me permission. And that's the way I did it. And um, when you're opening up about something big like that, I

think it's you know, get some trusted advisers. When I admire you so much for for revealing that piece of you, because you're right like I because of that story, I feel like I know, I feel like I know why you do the things that you do, Like you know, I mean, like it's it's it's great to be able to It's like, oh, I see where his passion comes from and helping people. And you know, it's like you said,

I trust you. I trust that your intentions are coming from a beautiful place and a place where you know you want to you want to help set people free, and that, to me is is so beautiful because we need more men like you in the world. I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate that I received that. And again it's I've had many years where I was not my best and I think I had to go through pain, go through hurting myself, hurting other people in order to realize okay,

pain is allowing me to reflect again. This guy interviewed Ray Dalio, who wrote a book called Principles. He's one of the richest people in the world. He created a formula called pain plus reflection equals Progress for his life. Is one of his main principles. And I think one pain can be a great thing because if we allow ourselves to reflect in the pain. If we do nothing and we don't reflect and we just keep going into it,

then that's not gonna get progress. But when we hurt someone and we feel that pain when someone hurts us and we feel that pain, and we take a moment to reflect and say, Okay, did I truly do something wrong here? If I did, let me own and and take responsibility and reflect on what I can create moving forward, the actions I can take moving forward. And so I think I've just been I've I've hurt people, people have

hurt me. You know, all these different things have happened in my life where I'm like, I've reflected a lot. And that was one of the reasons why I started School of Greatness was because I was like, I want to learn from people. I want to reflect, and I want to be able to open up as well. And I think, and I think it's beautiful that you're doing this, and I'm curious, is your record, Well, it will be out when this is right, Yeah, when this airs will be out. Yes. So I'm sending it to you, so

you have it. I'm so excited for that. Oh yeah, thank you. Yes, text me, I want to. I want to listen to that asap. I feel like that's gonna I think it's gonna heal me. And so many people to text to you. Um, I just want to finish out our conversation. I think music is obviously one of the most incredible um gifts that we have been given in this world art forms. It really does take us to so many places internally. Um, it connects us in

such a deep way. And I'm always curious about people's playlist and what music is influencing your life at maybe could be at this moment or like, what do you feel? What songs? What five songs we call this the Holy Five? What five songs do you feel like? Uh, speak to your life this moment or your whole life. I try to do my best of putting us together at the last minute. UM. I listen to a lot of Latin music, Latin pop. This is for whatever. I'm a big sauca dancer.

I've been tell us a dancing for year, almost fifteen years now, and something about Latin music. Saw some music, Latin pop music that just when I'm not feeling good, it on. It's like the beat makes you move, and when we get into our bodies and express ourselves, we start to feel a little bit better. So does are That's something that gets me in a beautiful state that genre. But I have, uh, I have some key songs that I like that I have on repeat a lot, So

that's what I thought about. I don't know these are my top five of all time, but I think these are songs that I put on repeat for certain reasons. One is, uh, don't Stop Believing. As kind of cheesy as that is, Journey, I don't know why, I just don't about it. It's like I can listen to any time, it never gets hold. There's certain there's certain songs that I'm like. I When I like a song, I'll listen to it a thousand times over three weeks, and then

I don't want to listen to it anymore. This song I can listen to over and over and it still gets me. Uh, So, don't stop believing. I'm a I'm a big movie soundtrack guy. Um so charit's of Fire. I'm not even sure the name him with the song, but it's just the slow mo like build up. It's just an inspirational instrumental. Yes, No, that song is his killer for sure. I think it's called vent Van Vangelists or something like that. But that song, what is it?

Van gillis? Oh is the artist? Yes? Oh? Interesting? I never knew that interesting. There you go. Yeah. Um I'm a big fan of the Last Mohicans theme song. Oh my god, I have to revisit that. I need to that. It's it's amazing. It's this instrumental theme song that just he's running through the woods like trying to go save his woman and like killies people. You know, it's amazing. Um that's song. I'm I really like, uh I the Tiger back to movie themes. Yeah, but he's training in Russia,

like preparing to go against the Russian uh. And then I like, there's a song I put on repeat for whatever reason over the years, Testo. I think it's called adagio for strings. Interesting. Sure if that's how you say it, okay, but it just it just gets me in the zone. I love you like you get these are like in your zone songs which yeah, another one out to say, Shepherd Moon, Shepherd's Moon and yeah, oh wow, I'm a big I'm a big Enya fan. And uh I listened

to Watermark by en Yeah, Shepherd's Moons. It's really really beautiful. You should listen to Shepherd Moons before you, uh think about a chance. There might be a good chance that comes out of that that that track. Yeah, I love and yeah, I don't. It's funny. I don't know the names of the songs, but I remember that, Yes that's her, Yes, that's her. The Shepherd moont either Shepherd's Moon or Shepherd Moon. Listen to that after this one. It's a It's such

a beautiful piece. I think you'll like it. I'll check it out if the two guests now that I've had on the podcast so far, everybody has such different views of music, and that's why I love music so much, like it speaks to people so differently. Your second here view, you are my second interview. You're doing amazing. Seem like you've done a thousand thank you. No I have not, but I appreciate that. So thank You're doing great. I'm

I'm excited for this. I think people need to hear this side of your voice, which is a more I guess, vulnerable side for you, and I think it's perfect for you, It's perfect for your audience. And um, I can't wait for the chance. What's the chant album called? The Chant album is actually called Chant the Human and the Holy. So the Chance that I wrote for your event is

actually that's the first thing that kicked everything on. No way, Yeah, so that's the name of the album, The Human and the Hole was that it was that a chance that you made for the event ors, that's something you were working on, is like, it was a chance. I sat down one day in meditation and I was like, okay,

I know I want. I've had such a desire to be able to to meld my spirituality and my music and do it live, and so I just he was literally I don't know, maybe a week before and I was like, okay, well, something's gonna come through if I'm supposed to share it. And I sat down and I started singing, I am human, I am Holy Grace for news me, it's love that guides me, and it just came flowing out. I'm like, well that's it. There you go. Wow.

I feel like in every one of these episodes throwing out an idea here, just take you for whatever you one. Every one of them should open with like a seven to ten second part of one of your chance songs or finish with a yes. We have been discussing that to play around. So yeah, yeah, you're on the same page for sure. I could be great. Yeah, well, thank you, thank you, thank you, and I greatly appreciate you and all that you do in this world. I am grateful

for you. I'm glad we're friends. I'm glad you're you're doing this and I've always got your back. Thank you. That's always and that wraps up this episode with Louis House. I want to thank you and Louis for joining me on this continuing journey to be more Holy Human. Holy Human with Lean Rhymes is the production of I Heart Radio. Listen and follow Holy Human on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts.