Ashley Neese on Breath to Breakthrough

And I say life changing because that is how powerful this work was for my life. And I'm sincerely excited to share her insight with you on today's Holy Human. And if you know someone you feel could benefit from this episode, please pass it along. If you're moved by this podcast, I would love to hear what it inspired in you, So please leave your thoughts and ratings wherever you're listening to Holy Human wording that all you see with me. Hi, my friend, thank you so much for

coming on this podcast. You were the first person that I felt that I needed to have on here because you have been so pivotal in my journey of coming into my own wholeness, into healing so many parts of myself. I don't ever think that I've ever been able to tell you how pivotal you have been and how deeply I am grateful for the work that we have done together. You really are are just a guide for my life. So thank you. Thank you for staring up. Just really

moved just by your vulnerability and your honesty. And it's been such a gift for me to be on this journey with you, and it's such an honor and I just have the most like love and respect for you. So I'm thank you. Yeah, it's mutual all the way around. And I love this because this is one of the first practices I think you ever worked with me. On the top was the praise practice, which, first off, how

how challenging is a praise practice? Because I feel like I've run away from it for so long and just recently and I've been doing this work now for about eight years, like just recently. Can I actually sit within a praise practice and take something in from someone which is I think really huge? Just say, that's a big growth, big big change for me. Why do you think it's

so hard for us to receive something like that? Goshly, I mean, I think this is such an important question, And just as you're talking, I was feeling my own sense of just how long I've been in this work and how long It's taken me to be able to receive the praise as well. And it's just not something that comes naturally to me at all, Like my my

natural tendency is just always deflection. It's like no, no, no, no no. But if you only knew what was really happening for me, probably wouldn't want to give me that praise, or if you knew about my history, if you knew this, And so there's so much of that that comes up. I think for all of us, you know, especially given our rough childhoods and just all the things that we've gone through in life, it just makes it really difficult to sit in the vulnerability of actually being seen for

our wholeness and seen for our goodness. Yeah, and it's so interesting because it's someone can shame us and talk down to us, and we're like, oh, we'll take that all day long. That feels comfortable, That feels maybe like that was thrown at us as children, like you're saying, and that that's something that we're easily we can take in. But then we talk about praise. It can be so vulnerable to have someone see the good in us, which

is so best ackwards. I just want to say, once again, thank you for teaching me that, because you were the first person to introduce me to breath work, and that was really my entry point on this healing journey. And I didn't start with meditation. That wasn't the first thing that I gravitated towards. It was I think you and your energy, And first off, Instagram kept throwing you up in my feed for like five months, and finally I was like, I'm going to call this woman. I don't

know what she does. I don't know what energy work is, I don't know what breath work is, but there's something in me and my instinct that wanted to connect with you. So just for everyone, if everyone listening has followed me on my path, they have heard your name many many times, and they've heard me talk about breath work. So I just want to introduce people to breath work and what that is a little more today. So for someone out there who doesn't know what it is, can you explain

what breath work is? Yes? I can, and it's a lot of different things so I think, first and foremost, it's a practice of being with yourself. It's a practice that allows us to bring our awareness inside to our bodies so that we can learn how to regulate, so that we can learn how to bring our nervous systems from a state of override and stress and sympathetic activation to a state of more calm and peace and healing.

It's also a practice that can be deeply confronting, right because for many of us there's a reason why, and there's probably many reasons why we don't want to sit with ourselves and be with ourselves, and for all that complexity and all that richness is there, Ultimately, the breath is really a tool and a practice for self healing, for embodiment, and for empowerment. We talk about healing a lot. This is a big question, but I just want to know, from your point of view, what is healing. That's a

huge question. It is a big question, but it's we talk about it all the time, like, oh, healing, and I think it's different for everyone. I just wondered what that meant to you. It's interestingly, and you know, because I'm it's each here that goes by I think my understanding of what healing is, and even the way I would define it changes. At this point in my life where I'm sitting today, I feel like healing looks a

lot like repair. Healing looks a lot like restoration, right, And so when I look at the healing also looks a lot like rest. Right. So that kind of slowing down, that rest, that repair, all those like regeneration. Those are all the words that kind of come to mind, And those are the types of practices that I'm really involved with right now. And breath work is a huge part of that as well. It's an amazing way to kind of reset and restore and rebalance. So yeah, that's really

what healing. It's not. It's not just one word. It's a lot of different words, but they all kind of mean the same thing to me. I love that. And rest, Oh my gosh, Like I think that's so foreign to so many of us. I know it's still foreign to me. Like I I claim that I'm resting, but I know that I'm not. There's still so much doing within my resting. You know, some of us think just because I'm laying on the couch and working doesn't mean I'm resting. But

for me, that can feel like resting. It's something that we've been taught we have to do, do do so much, and we're rest is not something we're worthy of. We're talking about worthiness so much. Actually, if you think about it, not being able to receive praise, not really being able to receive rest, we get down to that core wound of what that isn't it's unworthiness? I would say, I mean,

how do you feel about that piece? I feel that's really accurate because that unworthiness piece is a huge driving factor in all of the doing right, and not even just doing. It's more than doing. It's all the hustling, right, It's the hustle, it's the push, it's all the different ways, subtle and not subtle, that we override our bodies to get whatever it is done or whatever it is accomplished. And then it's like, at the end of the day,

at what cost? You know? And the rest is so huge in that because it is this question of like, oh, when we start to kind of go deeper into those layers of unworthiness, it's like that question, am I worthy of rest? Am I actually worthy of taking really deep care of myself? Yeah? And oh my goodness. It's that's something that I'm I think we're all coming home to

is actually self care. And I know that's such a buzzword for a lot of people, and some people that can mean many different things to a lot of different people. But for instance, small things like I'm not allowing myself to go to sleep without washing my face. It's little tiny things like that for me that I'm really I'm putting myself before like all the busy stuff that keeps me from the tiny things. And I think that's super important when we're coming home to ourselves, to be able

to come home to those pieces. I think that's so huge. And what you're saying resonates for me on so many levels. And I found even in these last couple of years, you know, my son just turned to and still as a relatively new parent to me, they're just these little commitments that I make every day to myself, and they're so simple these days. It's like all about that back to basics, Like am I drinking enough water? Was like just so simple When I am not hydrated, like things

just aren't right, you know. So it's like just these simple things. Am I drinking enough water? Am I going to commit to drinking water today, and like you said, just do myself care things. Wash my face at the end of the day, brush my teeth, run a comb through my hair, just all those simple things. It's like that's so essential, and sometimes those things can just go by the wayside when I'm focused on my son or like you're saying, I'm focused on these bigger picture of

things that just need my attention. But I know from my experience, if I'm not doing those little things, I just get destabilized really quickly, like I need those practices to inchor myself well. And I love that those are practices.

I think when people think of oh, I have to commit to a practice, I have to commit to meditation practice or breathwork practice, whatever it is, and sometimes it feels like it has to be large, like oh, this, this is what a practice looks like, when really, when we're talking about the commitment, like you're saying to ourselves as the ultimate practice, and it can look very different

for everyone. And I think for me, I know during this time, especially because I was meditating and breath working and the whole deal for like an hour to an hour and a half every day before we went into lockdown, and I found myself with all of this time and actually not wanting to sit down and do that, because obviously there was so much coming up that I was wanting to run away from. But then at the same time, I started looking at it as it doesn't have to

look like that. It can look like anything. I can give five minutes to that. It doesn't need to be all or nothing, thinking the little things, just going outside, putting my feet in the grass, whatever it might have been. The smaller things became my practices, and I think that's important for people when they think of starting a practice, or it doesn't have to look big. I love that, and it doesn't have to look like anybody else's either.

We're inundated with so much imagery of here's what spirituality looks like, or here's what breath work looks like, or here's what meditation looks like. And like what you're saying is so important because it's a daily practice, right, It's a daily practice, and so whatever that is, and practice can be having a cup of tea just quietly for a minute. Practice can be breathing, and that's great, but there's so many things that we can do that are all inherently about self care and it can all be

spiritual just depending on our perspective that day. Totally, just circling back into breathwork. Breathing is something that we do so inherently and so naturally, and I feel like it's also something that can be the first thing that goes when things get stressful, anxiety arises, and it's something that we really haven't unless we're guided to focus on our breath.

It's not something we put our focus on. So can you talk to me a little bit about like when we're holding our breath, are daily breathing if if we're not somewhat focused in that area, like what can happen to the body and the mind and through lack of air basically Yeah, so a lot of different things can happen, and we can get headaches, we can feel not as focused, you know, so a big thing that happens when they

start to intake more oxygen as focused. Which was amazing And from doing all this corporate work for so many years, the corporations like to see, Okay, what's the metrics here? They all like metrics like how can we engage if this is really working? Or and on in twenty minutes of breathing. Then their employees are going in their focus shoots up this huge percentage because they've had a moment to actually connect to themselves and get in more open.

A lot of times, what happens when there's a stressor to the nervous system or there's anxiety, the body will contract, right, and so in that contraction there's tension, and then often in that tension it kind of can go up your back into your upper shoulders like traps, neck area, which can then lead to tension headaches and things like that, or even just kind of general stiffness or soreness in the upper part of the body, which is that's also

my picture. As soon as I get stressed in my back, just kind of I've become this turtle in a shell and it just gets really hard and rigid. So I know, in those moments, oh right, just inhale and just excel really slowly and start to let everything kind of soften. So those are some of the big things that can happen. And also the other thing that can happen in like a stress and anxiety breathing pattern is it just starts to replicate itself, right and so often you'll hear the phrase,

and I hear this a lot in the industry. It's like, just calm down, right, and well, okay, well, if I could, like I totally would, But like, I'm super stressed right now, so that's not that actually makes me more anxious, and that makes my breath more shallow and more tight. Yeah, that's the worst thing you can say to anyone who's having any kind of anxieties. Oh, just just calm down, just chill out. It's like, well, if I could, yes,

I would. Well, on that note, let's all take a deep breath and we'll be right back with more from Ashley Nye's Welcome Back Again, my friends, let's tackle anxiety when someone is caught in that anxiety spin out, when we all of a sudden can't catch our breath. Like, what is the most quote unquote right thing to do? I guess it's whatever is right for you, But like, what is the most healing thing that we can do in that moment when we feel like, oh my god,

like I can't catch my breath. That's a great question. I'm going to answer that with like a couple of different suggestions because we're all we all just work so differently. Um one thing and then I typically suggest as a practice called orienting. So and it doesn't even evolve doing anything with their breath. It's literally just looking around your environment, whether you're at home, whether you're out and about in the world, and just looking and focusing your attention on

the things that you can see. Right. So, right now I'm in my office, what can I see? Okay, I can see the window, right, Okay, I can see a lamp. I can see the light coming through the window. So those types of things, and that will automatically start to shift your nervous system from like a more of a sympathetic kind of activated state to start to ground bring

it down. So just slow it down. And then what's really cool with an orienting practice that instead of just focusing on like okay, now I'm stressed, I've got to like somehow figure out how to call my breath down. You know, that can also be really difficult too. As we start to orient the breath will naturally start to lengthen, the exhale will slow, our heart rate will go down. And so that's a great practice. Another one that I said just is a practice. It's just a really simple

grounding practice. So just feel your feet on the ground, right, just feel your feet. You could press one foot down, press another foot down, just really bring your awareness and your energy down towards the ground. Another thing you can do is if you're sitting in a seat, is just feel your butt on the seat. No, oh, okay, my butts on the seat. Now there's a little bit of settling. And we're not necessarily looking for like, Okay, I feel

the most relaxive ever felt in my life in this moment. Like, that's not the practice that's going to do that necessarily, But what we are looking for is just a slight shift because once we have that slight shift, then the nervous system can start to down regulate and then we can start to get those longer exhales that we're looking for. I love that because the first thing that people say is like, just take a deep breath, and it's like, well,

I can't really get in a deep breath. And so yeah, that's so amazing that you explain that, because I think that will be helpful to so many people. Is that's not the first thing that we should be focusing on. If it's the first thing, you know, because we can't we can't access that at the moment, so what is accessible. You're totally spot on with that, which is exactly why I suggested it. And I love what you said because

that's something that I used to hear before. I you know, top breath, where people would say things like we'll just take a deep breath, and I'm like, I'm literally having a panic attack. It's actually not physically possible for me to take a deep breath right now, So what are some other things that I can do? And it's also you know, a way of working with the body that's less about going straight into the center of the quote

unquote problem, and we're kind of working the periphery. So instead of going right into the breath and trying to get that longer exhale, we're just looking around the room, right,

So it also takes a pressure off. And for those of us, you know, who are like perfectionists or recovering perfectionists and like always want to get it right and always want to go full forth right into whatever the thing is that we're trying to heal or change, it's like again, it brings in that softness and that slowness, which is teaching us something totally different than what we've kind of been addition to practice, Yeah, totally, we've been

conditioned to attack it. So the first word that came into my mind just attack the thing. Yeah. I think that's one of the things that breath work has taught me is that softness into the allowance of things, of allowing things to arise and allowing the discomfort to be in that discomfort. Breath work has helped me to expand my container and my ability to sit in the uncomfortable feelings. Um, can you speak to that a little bit of how

breath work can take us on that journey? Yes? And I love what you shared because that's been my experience as well. It's just this kind of ever widening container for being with whatever showing up in that moment, you know, or the moment. And for me, so much of the

breathwork practice is about growing our capacity. Going back to the example of that kind of just like highly anxious picture or that panic attack, It's like, so much of what's happening in that moment is there's this perceived emergency, right, It's like, Okay, there's an emergency, and you know the way that we were brought up was like, Okay, well I have to just go in full force and attack

this and handle this emergency right now. But what often happens in that moment is that it's actually the real emergency is already over right with, The emergency is past, but in that moment, it feels like it's happening now because we've been triggered, right, So there's a trigger that comes up, and then we have the panic attack and are the anxiety, picture, the stress or whatever it is that we're trying to change, but we forget that like,

oh wait, the emergency is over. And I'm not saying in a moment if you're having a real life or death emergency, feel like, of course that's an actual emergency. But oftentimes that's not actually what's happening. Right So we're just kind of in this imprint from our history. And so what breath work really gives us the space to do it. It kind of opens up our capacity and in working with the imprints from our history, it allows

us to start to differentiate. And as we start to differentiate from our history and kind of unhook from the wounds and unhooked from those places that bring us so much pain, we can a little space, right and in that space, we can be with whatever is happening because we know, in that moment, Okay, this is really painful, this hurts so bad, and I'm breathing, my butt is on this chair and I can look out the window.

All these things can happen versus before. It's like, the pain and the grief can feel so consuming and it can just take you down. You know. When I've had that experienced, grief has taken me down many times, many times, and some of us have to go through that process a lot, and grief will definitely take me down again, you know, but I'm gonna be able to get back up. And yeah, grief was something that came up for me

tremendously when we started working together. My breath work practice has shifted and changed so many times, but I feel like when we first started diving in, that was so much grief. I mean, I feel like that's why at that point in my life I was going through so much anxiety and depression was because I wasn't facing that grief. I also felt like I was going to die if I did because it felt so big. And now when grief comes up I'm like, oh, I know what that is.

Now I allow myself space to hold myself in the space. But I would have never known how to hold myself if it wasn't for the practice of breath work, because I feel like that's part of what it has, you know, as teaching us as we go through breath work practices, how to hold ourselves within all of these complex emotions.

That's exactly it. You said it so beautifully. It's how to hold ourselves, that's how to grow our capacity, and it's just how to like actually be in it, right, because it's like what you said, it's like there's so much avoidance and there's so much distraction, and and it's we don't need to beat ourselves up for that. That's

totally human, you know. It's like we are human, Like we want to feel safe and comfortable, and so often our experiences are just really painful and that's hard to like sit in that, especially with what you brought up,

which is I connect as well. It's like that fear of like and I have this with the grief, and I also have worked really hard over a lot of years to overcome my fear of feeling like if I say what I need, something bad is going to happen, or if I say what I need, you know this person is going to leave or whatever the thing is. It's like that fear was so gripping, like my throat would get so tight and I would just be terrified to say what I needed. And that's of course from

you know, the history that I have. But breathing has allowed me the ability to just start to one layer at a time feel it, just actually feel it, like feel that tension in my throat, feel the pain there, feel the fear, and then actually start to metabolize it right and digest it. Yeah, as you're saying that my throat is getting tight, I feel that so deeply because that's something that I think that I've also struggled with and still due to be honest, is to say what

I need. Yeah, I feel I feel that intensely. That's what's been so interesting about starting this podcast for me too, is I've been so connected to my singing voice, but my speaking voice, and to put myself out in the world in this way is very activating, like so intensely

that I'll I'll go into like a free state. Before we even got on this call, like my body just it's learning and I've I would have never been able to do this if I wouldn't have expanded my capacity to be with all of those uncomfortable feelings, because I would have immediately shut down and deflected and been like, oh, I can't do that, which, by the way, everybody that's listening right now and then knows me it's like you

did that, sweetheart. You did shut down. It's a defense mechanism to shut down and not want to open my voice in this way. But I have learned to be able to sit with all that comes up, and that is so uncomfortable, and god, it's been so uncomfortable. But I feel like as I'm starting to do this, like the layers of the energy behind you know that that kind of grips my throat is starting to dissipate. I mean, I feel like sometimes we just have to do the thing that we're so fearful of to be able to

start to move through that energetically. I totally agree. And there is risk involved. There's risk involved in the vulnerability. I think it's burn A Brown says something I'm gonna misquote her, but something about like there's no vulnerability without risk.

That's part of the same soup, right, And so for you, like, you've done all this work and you've shown up in all these ways, and you've done all this healing and processing and being with and just all the feelings, and you're ready for this next step, you know, And so you're here doing it and like opening up to it and making yourself available to it, which is so incredible.

And it's to me just such a testament to how much you've grown and how willing you've been just to continue showing up day after day to your practices and to this work. Thank you. It feels more uncomfortable to not do the thing than it does to do the thing. Now. I also know how I'm limiting myself. There's pain within

that limitation. I hear someone the other day, some said something like basically, choose your pain, because there's pain in the limitation, and there's pain in stepping outside of that comfort zone and letting go of that limitation. And so it's like, I think I value growth so much that I would really be denying myself of something that I value deeply if I didn't step outside of that. So yeah, I've just had to do it. And I and I

find joy in it too. I mean there is joy and also stepping right into the fear and overcoming you know, the thing that you thought, you know, five minutes ago was gonna literally kill you. And there's great joy to be had in that too, as I'm finding. I agree and I feel that too. It's like, even just listening to you, I can feel and enjoy just so much potency right like there, that's where our life force energy is.

It's like in those moments where we're taking those risks and really and I also completely relate to the kind of pain and suffering of not doing the thing. You know, it's like to a certain point in your life and in your healing journey where you're like, okay, it's actually more painful for me and to just not show up and do this podcast and it is to just show up and do it and like open my heart and you know, open myself, did this experience and those limitations

are so painful. And then like you're saying, we don't when we say second, those we don't get to experience the joy. We don't get to experience a kind of potency and the energy and the vitality that comes from, you know, moving through what we're here to move through. Yeah. Absolutely, you know you talk about life force energy, I mean ultimately, like that's what breath is, right, that is our ultimate

life force. And when we're shutting down in any way, um and not allowing that breath to like fully move through us, and life starts to contract. And I think that's That's one of the beautiful things when I started breathwork with you, is that I started my life started expanding because there was also a literal piece of me

that I was I was beginning to expand. I started to get in touch with things that I've always been in touch with my intuition, but there was definitely so many voices in my head at one point, I mean were figuratively and literally there were there were a lot of people around me, and so there was constantly different voices, and I started to lose touch with my intuition. And I feel like breath work is such a direct line

to intuition. You talked about clarity earlier, and I remember like we would start our session and I would be so fearful and confused, and then all of a sudden, we would breathe and I would start talking to you, like mid breath work session about all the things that I was just so super clear on that I was

very confused about twenty minutes beforehand. I'm smiling so big because I just have such fond memories of those sessions with you and just those moments and you would get so razor focused and the intuition would come in so strong, and there's no doubt to me. That's one of the most incredible things about breath work. You know. I love that you touch on this too, because what it does is it just kind of filters out all the noise.

It gets us really clear. It gets us that direct line to our intuition, which then once they've got that, we can start to build our us muscle. Right, we can start to build the muscles that we need to start to listen to that and trust that intuition off the mat, so to speak. Right when we're outside of practice and when our lives are expanding and things are opening up, you know, there's this consolidation of just energy.

Once we start their breathing practice. It's like there's this burnoff period and like a lot of the stuff just starts to burn off. It's like the thing that we were worried about from two days ago or earlier. Today, it's like everything just starts to burn off and kind of filter through, and we start to process it and metabolize it, and then what's really important, right, what really matters, what's kind of underneath all the mirriage of stuff starts

to emerge. And to me, that's one of the most beautiful things about the practice is because we start to go through all those layers and they get right down to the core. And even if in the core it's like, oh, I'm feeling that I'm more actually really afraid of X, it's like, great, that's really good to know because before

it was just confusion, distraction, avoidance, whatever it was. Once we get through those first fifteen twenty minutes of practice, there's just enough space for us to be able to hear ourselves, for us to be able to actually listen to ourselves in that moment, and then to be able to voice whatever needs to come forward or take action

on whatever we need to take action on. So to me, it's like that first part of the breathing is like a clearing and just kind of consolidation process that happens both physiologically with their breath and then also energetically as well. Those types of things are just so so so empowering and important because it's like we can do so much talk therapy, but unless we're addressing the body, that information

is not going to come out. And so it's essential that we do some kind of mind body, some kind of somatic practice to help us unlock and release and you know, not just our path from us, but also you know, the joy and the creativity that we want for ourselves moving forward. All Right, you guys, let's take a quick pause, but when we return, we're going to dive into why body work can feel so incredibly intimidating.

Will be back, Welcome back everyone. When I met you, I had gone to treatment after my thirtieth birthday, and it was a couple of years after that, and I had done plenty of talk therapy. Not that that isn't amazing, It definitely is and has definitely served its purpose for me. But I felt like I was kind of going round and round in circles until I began to get into the body. I was, as I'm listening to you talk about this, I feel like this can sound incredibly scary

for a lot of people. It's not like, oh yeah, let's just jump in so I can dig up all the ship that's gone on in my life for you know, however, many years would you say to people like that maybe listening and going, oh this sounds this sounds terrifying. I really get that. And I've had so many people come, you know, when I was doing a lot of private sessions, I sometimes have people come and they're like they would say things like, I mean, I kind of know why

I'm here, I kind of don't. I'm really scared, and I'm scared that like I'm going to discover something that I just don't want to know, you know too that I was like, all right, but I just really don't want to feel, you know, um, And that's I really

get that. I really get that. And you know, there's like there's not really a whole lot of comfort that I can necessarily give somebody who's just starting out and as somebody who has been deeply involved in like breathing and meditation for a long time and also thinking about myself.

When I first started this path at twenty three years old, and you know, it was in rehab and was just like completely, like just scared out of my mind, you know, because I had also spent so many years like drinking and using drugs and doing all these things and not

feel myself. And then when the opportunity came to actually sit and just be with myself, it was honestly excruciating, and it really hurt, and it was really painful to have to feel so much of what I'd been putting away or what I've been kind of living with for so long and or avoiding all the things. And really, what I want to say to people who are just getting started, it's just go slow, you know, like we don't you know, I'm the kind of person who's like

I started my practice just going full force. And I don't recommend that. I really don't recommend that to people that let me be an example of like what not to do, you know, but just feel really slowly, you know. I write about this in my book. It's like, do one practice and if it feels like it's too much for you, stop, just stop. You don't have to push

yourself here, you don't have to. And actually, what's more healing and what's more restorative and reparative for our nervous systems is to not override and to just go in as much as we can. And so, for example, if you're working with grief, like feel your grief and your breathing practice five percent. Just feel it five percent and that's all you need to do in that moment. And if it feels like you want to feel at ten percent, feel at ten percent. And if you start to get overwhelmed,

back off. There's so much to be said for doing work in a tie traded, slow, safe and contained way. Absolutely. I've also started to trust, and I've I've kind of always been this way, but I was trusting what comes up is is what you can handle? You know what I mean? Like you can I think that's when we start to really build trust within ourselves and and our

intuition and trusting that we can handle it. And that's been huge for me, going back to that thing of oh my god, I'm gonna die, Like if I feel this, it's wait, I'm being shown this for a reason. I'm being I'm I'm here in this moment for a reason to be able to feel this, and that I've I think I've thought those things for a long time, but um, I haven't really felt that kind of trust. So it has taken some time to build that trust to myself.

And the only thing I would say to for folks who are if you're curious about starting a breathing practice and want to do some things on your own, is just to get support. You know, even if you have a one person in your life. It doesn't have to be even anybody in your family, but just a trusted friend and you can be like, Hey, I'm going to start this journey and I'm scared. I don't know what's going to come up, but you know, can I just

check in with you about it? Or can I just get your support and just know that you're here kind of cheering me on doing this thing, And even that can just work wonders to know, like there's a person in my corner, There's somebody has got my back. So if I just go off the rails here and like it gets really intense, like I can call somebody and

just check in with them. Yeah, there was a quote that I saw that you said healing is a natural byproduct of experiencing each other's vulnerability, which I think is so beautiful. I mean, I feel like that connection with even one person is so important in our healing journey to be witnessed. And it's uncomfortable to be witnessed. And I think in you know a lot of our pain, because I think a lot of us can feel like, oh,

my pain is too much. Like when those things start to arise, how do we deal with that mental chatter and to be able to start connecting with others. A big part of it for me has been being in relationships where it's safe, right, So choosing relationships that are safe, where I can show up and where I can even be super vulnerable and just say, you know, in a moment, hey, I'm feeling like I'm taking up a lot of space and I'm feeling super weird and secure about that. Now,

is that your experience? You know? It's so even as I say that, my body kind of like contracts and I'm like, oh, that's like is so like it's like the teenage me is like, oh, hell no, I would never say something like that, you know what I mean, it's up as nails. But as an adult, it's like, that's that's been part of it. It's but like that's been a huge part of my healing. It's just to reach over to my partner and I just say, hey, babe, like I'm just feeling so just scared right now, you know,

and do you still love me or whatever? It is just that that I with my younger self, would just cringe at the thought of saying, but it's it's really healing, you know. And then he can give me his honest feedback and he'll be like, no, you're not taking up too much space, or I'm really appreciating that you're being honest with me instead of just projecting all your stuff

on me, you know what I mean. It's like, what's the offer of a relationship with like m brother You just say hey, I'm really angry with you then lash out at me like that is an amazing alternative. So he's always super on board and really happy when I'm able to show up in those ways. But I think that's a big part of it, is just like having establishing that trust in relationship and having you know, a couple of people that you can really just kind of

unwind with. That's even something that I'm still learning and something that you've taught me. And then something you're just reminding me of just speaking the thing, not having to project, but just speaking out the thing that you're feeling, it literally shifts energy instantly. It does take a certain level of vulnerability to be able to do that. And and and I feel like I'm still on that journey of learning how to not hold those things in you know,

me too, Me too. And over the last couple of years, what I've really come to is that it's really about just being in connection. And it's about being in connection. And in those moments when I feel like, oh, like what you're describing, because you and I are both very similar in this way, like we're oh sensitive energetically. It's like as soon as somebody's like calibration changes, even just like half a degree, you're like, whoa, I felt that?

What's going on? You know? It's like the signals go out. You're like, are you mad at me? What's happening? Like I remember a therapist years ago. He's like, you were like exquisitely tuned. You know. It's like You're like this a exquisitely tuned instrument. And I'm like, I am, that's right. That's a super it is a superpower, and it's something to be so grateful for. And in those moments, it's

like it's a lot of work. You know. If I'm like, Okay, I'm feeling something, and then instead of just going into my little cave or being angry or whatever it is that I'm doing, I gotta just say, well, i'm feeling something. Here's what I'm noticing. It's a practice of naming. And I'll just start to say, like, my stomach is getting tight,

I'm scared right now. And then that actually just gives my partner an opportunity to be like I can show up for that, right he can show up for that, just like I can show up for that with him. But when it comes out as like I start lashing out or I totally check out, or any of those other things, and he's kind of, wait, where are you? Like what's going on? And so naming is what brings us into connection. And it's such a practice. It's such a practice. I'm so far from where I want to be.

I feel the same way. But but I'm still learning, you know, I mean, we're learning. And I the more I choose to show up in that way, I won't say easier it gets, but the more practiced I become at it. You know, it's never really easy, but it becomes something that becomes more repetitive for people out there listening to who are thinking, oh, yeah, like that's me.

What's just a simple tip for people to begin to work with that energy and their sensitivity taking some time to connect to nature, right, because that's such nicknature for me. It's just like the kind of great equalizer, it's the great restabilizer. So it's like just taking a moment to let our energy kind of tap into something that's holding us. So what often happens with a lot of the empathy and the sensitivities and those kind of things, it can

just pull us in so many different directions. It can feel really destabilizing. And so the first thing we want to do is like find our ground, right And so I know, we're moving into winter up where I and we just had our first know and so it's less about being barefoot right now because it's just too cold,

but you know, anything that we can do. I'll soak my feet at night, you know, with warm water, and just even that is so grounding and it just helps me like feel into my body, feel into my own space. And that's just the first great tip for anybody who wants to just know how to start to work with that kind of sensitive and empathetic energy is just connect to nature. I love that and I've been doing that more and more, talking about like nature holding us, and

I haven't really grasped that until recently. And there's something about really deeply connecting with the ground that has brought me into I don't know, it feels like I'm like you said, it feels like you're being held. It feels very motherly. I mean, that's that mother Earth thing is living up to its name. But I love the I love the soaking of the feet because I think I've never been a huge bath person, and so many people talk about baths and I'm like, I like them, but

I don't do them all the time. Soaking the feet seems a lot more accessible. So thank you for recommending that that. Yeah, just put some essential oils in there, even like a fresh brigger, rosemary or something that can be really nice. And I'm like you, I love I love a bath too, but I'm like, I don't know, sometimes it just feels like a lot and like a

footsto just feels really nigible. You know. I would love to note with your son, like how has your son changed your work and your mission in this world, godly Anne, and in ways that I just never expected. Even just getting pregnant. You know, I hear a lot of moms saying like, oh, what forced me to do X? And for me, it was really just an opportunity to start to really embody the things that I had been working towards,

the slowing down, working less. Being pregnant also gave me so many incredible opportunity is to practice boundaries around work, which was huge. Instead of just saying like yes to every opportunity that came through, I was like really having to look at like, Okay, I only have X amount of energy in a day now, especially that I'm growing this little human miracle and my uterus, So where am

I going to put my energy? You know? And I could already see it's like, as soon as he comes earthside, it's going to be a whole another ballgame of just kind of recalibrating my energy and where I wanted to go. But it's been an incredible process of going even deeper internally and really shifting the focus so less kind of on what I'm producing and what I'm creating for the world, and more about like just how I'm living on a day to day basis, and that's been a huge shift,

and it's been an ego kind of die off. For so much of my life, I've put so much stock in like my accomplishments, and you know, whether that be education or whether that be like you know, the work that I do, any of those things, which are all valid and incredible, and I feel super fortunate to be able to do what I do, and I know it's like such an incredible blessing and gift, and you know, it's a huge privilege. And I also really struggled with my worth, like how much do I have to work?

How hard do I have to push myself? And being pregnant was just this beautiful opportunity to go. My body is working so hard growing this human, Like everything outside can just like take a backseat, because this is like really awesome, you know, like I don't have to like I'm already like creating a life here of people, like I don't need to do all this other stuff. And then you know, birthing him and bring him into the world, and now he just turned to and just really showing

up just been a refinement process. I've really been refining like what my mission is in the world, what my mission is just individually as a parent, as a partner person in my community, how I want to show up, where I want to spend my energy and what really matters. And it's been this massive editing process and it's been so fun to just go in redline anything that just isn't driving with me anymore, you know, anything it just isn't giving me the energy exchange and the reciprocation that

I'm looking for. I'm just you know, saying goodbye. And there's been grief and sadness and letting a lot of kind of parts of myself shift and die. But it's also been this incredible initiation into the next phase of my life. Yeah, I see such as softening within you, and that's so beautiful. I so desperately want that too for myself, and I know I have. I know I've

softened a lot around so many things. And you and I, like you were saying earlier, you and are very similar in that way of like driven and you know, accomplishments and all the things. And I honestly think that that's one of the everything you just talked about is what's always scared me about motherhood, like, actually, you know, I have two stepsons and it's very different though, you know, to have your own child. And I think everything you just said is like, oh, that's what that's exactly what

would happen. And I got pregnant, and there's something about that that has ter fight me to be really honest. But there's something also when listening to you talk about it that sounded really inviting. So, yeah, you just piqued my interest on motherhead. Then maybe I changed back and forth all the time. Yes, now I would have finished our conversation. By the way, thank you for this lovely conversation, and I hope people kind of have gotten a better idea of how breath work has led me into this

journey and what it could also possibly do for them. Um. But part of your breath work sessions that I loved so much is your music because I feel like you and I had a conversation, you listened to what I needed, and then you chose songs as I was breathing that like spoke directly to that. And I think that's what music is my entryway into any kind of emotion, and it's it's I think it is for a lot of people because of that, I've just always loved the music

that you chose. So I would love to know what you're We call this the Holy Five, so five songs that speak to like the wholeness of maybe your life now or your life you know, over the entirety of your life. But some some great music from you and why you you love these songs. I would love to know you know everything about music, You're like all the things. I'm like, I'm gonna come here with my little like playlist and she's gonna be like, please, this is like

the song sucks. I was so still like what is she playing? Like doesn't what is she doing? So it's like, so I'm so happy to hear that, and I know, you know, we would talk about it, but those first couple of lessons, I was just a little bit nervous and like, oh my gosh, i'mally funny just thinking about that. So and this funny. The funny part is that I've I've literally gotten so much of my great music from you and from sessions because I would be at the end of be like, what is that song you just

played for me? So yeah, so that's funny. I'm pulling up this playlist right now. You know, we're talking about our son Solomon, and he's really into music, and um, it's incredible, like what like how kind of eclectic his taste is. These aren't necessarily the songs that, like I would say, I'd like to find my life overall, but definitely in this moment, they are the ones that are like on repeat. And we've got Running Up that Hill Kate Bush Big one. Oh yeah, he loves really. Oh yeah,

he's I mean Kate huge. Kate Bush, Oh my god, I mean for a two year old, that's amazing. I love him. You know, we've got It's my House Diana Ross. That one's been really fun with him. Musician that we love listened to a lot in our house is Trebor Hall and the song of his that we all love so much, it's called Chapter of the Forest. And his songs are really deep and there's so much about Nate her and animals and community and kind of spirituality from from the Song of the Lies And as he taught

sister Sun, I said, back can't be bad. I love him. I love him. Got a fun one in here, man eater Um hall of Oates amazing. Although when Solomon was little, he was just learning to talk, and he was beat in the back seat and we'd put on Man Eater and he would every time it would go to the part where it says man Eater, he'd sit in the back and go, man, Man Man. It was epic. Watch up, She'll shoot you up. I love it. It's so funny. Was that was that? Were five? I'm sorry I lost

those four? That was four? One more Jose Gonzellas stay alive, very cool, beautiful son with you. But yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing. Like I said, your music choices have always been on point, so I appreciate it. Thank You're welcome. Yeah, thank you for all that you've done in my world and continue to do. And I am Yeah. I appreciate you coming on here and sharing your wisdom

with all of our listeners. And I hope that they've found something that deeply touched their heart and maybe some of them will begin on their own breath work journey because I I think it is incredibly transformational. Both of us can definitely speak to the power of it. So

thank you again, You're so welcome. Thank you for having me only and it's been such a beautiful hour and so meaningful to me as so many levels, and just my heart is so full of gratitude this moment, and yeah, I just have so much love and appreciation and respect for you, and thank you so much, thank you, and then we're in with that praise practice right there. Thank you so much for joining me here today. I am so glad that we got to spend this time together.

And if there's someone in your life you feel could also find inspiration in today's conversation, please share this episode with them, and if you were moved by today's episode, let me know your thoughts by leaving me a comment and rating wherever you found Holy Human. On our next Holy Human, I'll introduce you to one of my dearest friends, life coach Ryan Weiss. We'll let you in on one of our deep conversations that we have on the regular, and I promise you you will love his brilliant heart

and insight. Listen and follow Holy Human on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. M