Aloe Blacc on Being Unmasked

He was a renaissance and trustee scholar at the University of Southern California, where he majored in linguistics and psychology, and after graduating, he went on to become the international recording superstar known as drum Roll Allow Black, and I am so happy to welcome him on the Holy Human Podcast. Thank you worsing with me. Hallo Black, Welcome to the Holy Human Podcast. Thank you so much for coming on here. Thank you, It's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for

inviting me. I have to say, if anyone has met this man, you are one of the kindest human beings I have ever been around, and it brings me such joy to just even be in your energy because your heart is so full and what you give to people is so beautiful. Um, so just thank you for that. Thank you. You seem the same. So I think this

game recognized game, right. I'm so glad that we actually get to sit here and talk about our experience on the Mass Singer because, first off, as I have been keeping this in for months weeks now, and it's been really difficult, people hitting us up thinking it's us on the show, how has the experience been for you? Of just like, of just keeping it quiet. Keeping it quiet is is definitely the hard part because I was trying to keep it a secret and make it a surprise

for my wife. And there was one I think it was like a holiday, labor day or something came up and she was wondering, why am I working on labor day? So I can't I cancel whatever I'm doing, and and so I had to open up and let her know that, Okay, here's the deal. I know you didn't sign the NDA, but this is this is the secret, and I was going to surprise you with it. But now let's keep it a secret and we can surprise the kids. Yeah, because I mean, how old are your children? I have

a four year old and a seven year old. Okay, so yeah, have you and your family ever watched the show before previous seasons, and no, we hadn't watched as a family. This season, we're certainly watching as a family. And recently my daughter said, oh, my gosh, mushroom kind of sounded like daddy for a second, and then I realized that that's the end of this group uh episode that we're gonna watch. We're gonna watch all the other groups. We're not going to watch my group's episodes anymore. That

is too funny, I know. For me, Like I was in the studio recording, it was my I want I don't want to say, lie, but that my white life. What were you out doing in the studio? Same exact, same exact I had. I had on the calendar, you know, this thing about a toy company I was negotiating with and then I was making children's music four and it's true I am doing it, but it just wasn't happening then, and so that was what was on the calendar. And

that's what the do we say, lie? Yeah, that's what the lie was Our fib Yeah, because I was in the studio too at the same time. Is so it wasn't really like quite the lie. But what led you to say yes to the mass Singer? I had been asked to participate in a mess singer in another country and I was really seriously considering it, but I thought the travel, the time away from family, all of that was going to be a bit overbearing. The fact that it was in Los Angeles, just down the street from

my house sealed the deal. But also to be able to be someone completely different and experience what I do on stage as a brand new character and with a brand new energy. I thought that was an exciting part of the show. And it doesn't hurt that it's the most popular show on TV right right right? Um? Yeah, that's such a character and developing the character was such

an interesting piece. And one of my favorite things about the show was the team that we got to work with, Like every single person was so creative and just brought their own gifts to the show. And there were so many gifted people. Like when you started creating your character, did they present you with the mushroom? Did you have an idea to do the mushroom? Like tell me that whole process a few ideas of what character they could present me. They all seemed a bit too close to

who I am. Right, My stage name is Alo, and one of the characters was broccoli, and I thought, that's a little bit too close a green vegetable. And then there was this other character, I think it was a shark or something like that, and with a fedora or a Trilby hat, and it felt like, Okay, that's a bit too close to my style as well, like in a suit. So I thought, um, what is the complete opposite?

That looks different? And the mushroom outfit looked very different from me and from the artist that I am in my career, so I figured this was the one I wanted to play the game and try to throw everybody off the trail. I have to say, I had no idea, no idea until until the day were the same, Yeah, until the day we were in the same building at

the same time. Yeah. No, Well, because we were also in different groups, so I hadn't gotten to hear you perform, and you were next to me warming up singing Stevie Wonder, and I started like harmonizing with you, like underneath my breath and literally I go, damn, we sound good together. We should do we should do it whoever that is, we've already done that, which you are so gracious to come on my Christmas record and that's one of my favorite favorite It's so good. I love your voice so much.

It's interesting. I remember after the whole finale and after I won, and I was like, can I go hug him? I know we had all been, you know, tested, and I'm like, that's my friend. I just want to go hug him. He's the sweetest man. I'm so glad. It was a real moment in this in this uh masked world, right and of um putting on airs and like trying to be something different. That was a real moment. Thank you,

Oh yes, and thank you. And I actually I was crying the other day because I was I was thinking of our our conversation today and I was going through just your life and just questions and thinking about things. And one of the things you said to me right after was I hope she was hearing how much love they had from her. And I literally I remembered that the other day and I told my husband. I started crying.

I was like, that's so sweet, like but it was it was so cool to have a friend like next to me at the final and not even knowing it. That was awesome. You know. I didn't realize um, who you were either until the end. There was a text that I received out of the blue from uh Darryl, and I thought was Darryll texting? Right? And I thought, do I respond? Does he know he has to know? Is that lee Anne? Oh my goodness, that is Leanne. I just want to quickly explain to you guys that

Darryll is my wonderful manager. And so I texted him back and was like, hey, how's everything going. I try to keep it, you know, a bit casual and not not blow my cover. Yeah. No, he knew, I know, like at the very very end, and he didn't tell me because I was like, I was totally like, I just had no idea. And it was so interesting to me because I don't know, this is something I want to get into with you as competition, Like how are

you with competition? Because for me, I've really kind of dug into this because I haven't had to be in kind of that kind of competition and like mode for a very very long time and it's interesting what it turns on inside of me. Um, there's like this like I'm going for it, like full out, like you know, everything I've got goes into the creation or went into the creation of my character and the songs and the

whole thing. When it was down to you and me, it was like, it was so interesting what I recognized for myself about what competition does because I started competing when I was really really young. Competition for me was almost like to win was the way that I learned how to receive love or less. That's what I equated it with. And so I know what comes out in me to avoid the feeling of loss or how I equate quote unquote losing is like a loss for me. So I think in my mind and my body like

what comes out is like I have to win. And then when it's your friend next to you, I'm like, I don't anybody else feeling opposite of winning, like, which who knows how you out? But in my mind it's like for anyone to have to win this at this moment is like really sad me because you're my friend, you know, so how does that play out in your world?

So for me, okay, I haven't had to compete since high school, like in sports and music festival when I played the trumpet and I had to compete for first chair. What comes up for me in competition now is like just have fun and winning doesn't matter. That's what comes up for me. It's like I was in this game, playing it to see how long I could last and

and fool the panel. So that's what I thought. Really the mask scene was about fooling the panel, not standing the final who is the last person to win the Golden Mask? You did amazing? I thought I did pretty good. I was like, I'm I'm fooling him. This seems like it's you know, I'm I'm getting away with it. So I felt I felt like I was doing all right. I think that's where all my my competitive spirit was in, like making sure that I was, you know, ducking all

the clues. Yeah, it was interesting for me because I actually have said no to the show. They've asked me to do the show before, and even this time, I was like, I don't think I can do that because I don't think I can fool people with my voice. And then am I doing myself an injustice if I'd go to try to disguise my voice and how would that sound? And from their point of view, they were like, no,

just be you and do you. And like from the first show, my Twitter was blowing up like that, oh yeah instantly, and I'm like, I knew, I just knew. People like people have grown up with listening. There was just no way. I tried to throw different voices as often as I could. I love that because I knew if I went in with my regular you know and well known timber, immediately they would guess who I was and the show would be over and I wouldn't I

wouldn't have any fun. And so for me, the fun was really just coming back and singing something different with a different voice. I asked for um female power ballads so that I could try to approximate a whole different kind of energy in a different timbre, and especially with the mushroom outfit that had you know, the stem that was basically a skirt. Then I put on this this character that was like my little daughter's energy when she dresses up in her princess dresses? Have you ever worn

a skirt before that? The first time? And you know what, when I perform on stage, I do a lot of funky soul music. So I'm dancing. I'm like, you know, doing James Brown moves and all kinds of stuff, and I couldn't move the way I wanted to move on stage because the skirt was really restrictive. So you know, if I ever do this again, I'm definitely getting pants. Yeah, well you did great, and that's we actually we're backstage.

I remember talking about how well you play that skirt, because I mean, you did it well, and we were like, oh no, like you had kind of a feminine, feminine quality about it, which was so beautiful. I don't how did that feel for you to like bring out that side of it. Just kept thinking of like when I'm playing with my daughter and she's you know, she's dressing

up and her princess outfits when she's on stage. We have this uh, raised area over by the fireplace where she'll perform, and all of that really started to be the kind of character of the mushroom who I was. And even though I know they changed the voice, I would still even speak into the microphone like this. I was changing my voice on purpose, knowing that they're going to change my voice later. It was it worked so

well though, because you really had everyone fooled. I mean, to me, you were my favorite part of that show because of that reason. Like you clearly you thought out that process of really disguising who you were, and it was your voice sounded from a phenomenal on all of the songs, and the way that you performed Billie Eilish's

when the Party's Over was stunning. It was inspiring. Thank you. Yeah, that was interesting because the arrangement was really interesting, what was going on in my ears and what people couldn't see because everything was acapella. So then it was all of these different counts right too, they want like and so I was so nervous before that because I'm like, I'm so going to screw this up. Like this is

the hard part about the show. There's so much going on your ears, there's a count, there's stage managers, and then there's the nervousness of performing but not having a second chance because you're in front of the panel, right, and so it's not a rehearsal. This is real. You're doing it live. You're you're stuck in this hot costume. You're not sure if it's picking up all your your moments perfectly like it was. It's really tough. This is

not an easy, easy show. No it's not. It was a lot more w than I expected ever to for anything like that to be. And what was your experience inside the costume because I know for me, like, you know, the head piece, are you like at all claustrophobics. I'm not claustphobic, but the headpiece was heavy, and I was like, I'm going to need two weeks worth of massages every day to get over get over this. Uh you know this muscles, the muscles that are growing in my neck

right now. Oh yeah. No. It was definitely a challenge because as a singer, as you know, like everything needs to be open and free. And I actually lost my voice so right after the first show because they had a singing they had us pre recording everything I had. There was so much to do in so little time. And after the first show, I came the next day to record and I all of a sudden start warming up and I'm like, oh my god, I'm losing my voice. Okay, We're going to be right back with the more inside

scoop from behind the mess singer. Welcome back, you guys. So yes, after the very first show, I started to lose my voice. So I ended up on like drugs and steroids, not drug drugs, but like steroids, and like, I was so worried, Like I had the worst experience, And one of the reasons was because of the weight of the costume, like made me start contorting myself and doing things that I wouldn't normally do, so people have no idea what's going on. That's one of the things.

I didn't prepare properly either, and there was no one to tell me. Like my producer. It was amazing, but I don't think he understands the nuances of of a singer. So when I went into pre record the justin cases like in the studio, I went hard. I went like six takes of each song and and the next day I was like, oh, I gotta actually do this on stage. Yeah, I wasn't strategizing properly. So then by the end of the whole thing, I think my last song, the finale song,

was when my voice was the weakest. I remember rehearsing backstage because I had vocal coaches for us, rehearsing with a vocal coach, and I was like you know what, let's just take it down another half step. Okay, let's go down another half step, just so I can get the notes that I normally get, because at this point my voice was tired. Yeah, well, it's interesting because we I don't know about you, but I mean, I'm on the road a lot of the time. I'm sure you

are too, and this whole situation wouldn't have happened. I don't think I would have said yes to the show because they usually spread it out over a significant period of time and oh yeah, it's usually like several weeks, and so for us, we got like this condensed version for us. Then, Okay, I thought this was I thought actually was good. It was great, but it was definitely challenging. I feel you on the costume. But I did love being like you were saying a different character of ourselves

as an artist. Do you really feel like you wear a mask as an artist? Do you feel like, yeah, there's any fragmentation there? There's definitely, yeah, fragmentation. I call it compartmentalization. Like there's a there's a there's a Nathaniel Dawkins that's my legal name, and then there's an Alo Black and then because I came up as an MC as a as a rapper, there's a whole other kind of character and energy to what I do as an

as a rapper. And then there are songs that I write that are literally, you know, kind of teeny bopper pop songs that I could never present as the bow tie and and Fedora with a three piece soup guy. Right, So you know, I feel like there's all kinds of compartmentalization. And then the real me that you get is when we do an interview like this. You know, I'm not I'm not being Alo Black right now. I'm not on stage. I'm just being myself. How does that stage persona serve you?

Could you walk on stage? Is just you? You know I can. I've walked on stage. It's just me, and I do that when it's an acoustic performance. Um, when I'm with my pianist or my guitarist and we're really the bare bones, just voice and instrument, and I get to tell the stories behind the songs, how I wrote them and how the ideas came to me. That's when

it's not the showman. When I've got my full six piece band, sometimes with background singers, usually not I've got to put so much energy out and I love calling response. I love getting the audience to dance and clap and be participating in the concert. I call it a party instead of a concert. Then that's when I know I'm

something else, right, I'm I'm putting on the Aloe black character. Well, I'm sure that also comes into play too, from like you said, you being a rapper and MC and guarantee you hit the nail on the head so becau because I came up as a teenager having to rock a stage. There's no getting on. I have ballants. I have really tender, soft moment songs that I never do on stage with my band because when I'm on stage with a best I need to make the crowd say hey and yes, yes,

y'all and home. And you know that's I'm still trying to be LLL cool Ja run d m C on stage as the soul singer. So I love that. I love that. What I feel for me was you really intuitive, sensitive human being? And with that being said, what revelations did you have? Were there any things that surprised you about yourself or things that you learned being another character that you wouldn't have learned unless you would have been

on the show. Um. Definitely a new level of endurance. Um. There were moments where they're like, oh, do you want some water? And I was like nah. And then I got to the point where I was like, you know what when they asked if I want water, just take it, Just take it. I'm not proving nothing to nobody. Just take the water. It was like, I can do this. I'm gonna rough through it. Um. So you know, a new level of endurance, but also just um the idea

that I could probably do theater. I'd never done choreography on stage. For me, it's all about freestyle. When I was young, the hip hop clubs, going to the dance circles, and it's all freestyle. It's not there's no choreography, not the kind of things that kids are doing on TikTok

nowadays where they memorize movements. Right. It's like I had in this moment to learn how to move while I was singing, and that is brand new and I'm interested to do it more now, to have some choreography, but probably not with my soul music, probably with something else, and it could be a whole new artist character that I developed that will be doing. But that's cool. I mean, have you always wanted to do theater? Is that something

that you keep thinking about? It? The I just I just keep thinking about how it would feel like a prison to me because music is such a free form of expression and I get to control every single piece of it since I was young, writing, producing, mixing, mastering, all the engineering, even the artwork. All of that stuff I would do either by myself or with my hip

hop partner DJ Exile. But being in a film or on a TV show or on stage and having to do the same exact thing over and over again, and having to be at a specific place and time the same place and time over and over again feels very restrictive to me. And that's something I think I would have to get over to engage. But I think I would love to do theater. I've been coming up with a one man piece that's awesome. Is it the monotony or the lack of control? I think it's the lack

of control. My wife says I have control issues. I know it's true I do, but you know, I feel like this is what I'm I'm in a comfort zone with this much freedom, and I can do these other things where there's less control for little bits of time. But then I just so, does that control bleed over into like into all of your whole life? I think, I mean my wife would say yes, absolutely, I don't. I don't think so, but definitely, um, there are other parts.

You know, musicians that I work with is I love working with new musicians all the time, and that's because they get to color their personality onto the performance in a different way. I have a band in Paris, I have two bands in l A, you know, when I go to Australia, have a band in Australia, and they all play my songs differently, and I'm not controlling or strict about how they share their personality on the music. Where the control comes in is like strategies, processes, functionality.

I'm a process driven individual. So when I can foresee like ten move was ahead, I want to be sure all those moves are met, and I don't want to take any extra time to explore any other avenues because I already know it, like I saw it clear as day. Well, so that's your intuition, like that's you trust, but you know I trust myself. That's me trusted myself. I have to do some work to open up and be a

bit more relaxed when other people are involved. Because of my status, and this has been for many years, not just as a career artist, people assume that I have executive power, and it's because I take the position of executive power and that then subordinates others in a way that makes them feel that anything that I say could and is incisive. And I, you know, I don't want to let that assumption of power subject others to a

feeling of subordination. You know, how do your chill? Because when you have kids, like I have two stepsons, and I know when I have kids like all because I'm I like to control things also, and I feel like I've definitely done some work on being able to be

a lot more collaborative in many ways. I had a writing session with someone the other day who was another artist, and it was the first time I've ever done that, and it was so interesting because I'm like having to hold myself back then, like, oh, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say that right now, like really trying to walk the line of allowing that real collaboration, of allowing someone else the process having my own process, and it's

so interesting. I feel like my stepsons have taught me so much about allowing everyone's personality into the room and allowing for flexibility, because you know, I grew up an only child and I talked about non flexible I mean, but at the same time, I was also very much a kind of codependent caretaker with everyone. So I would still make sure that everyone's feelings were taken care of, but at the same time, I felt like I was for my own safety need control And I just wonder

what your kids have taught you around that. Okay, kids have taught me that my concept of control has to be thrown out the window completely. Okay, um, I didn't realize it until my son was three years old. These four now, you can't just constantly exert your will over kids. They need, they want, and they're supposed to push and

pull to find out what the boundaries are. And sometimes you allow them to find those boundaries on their own, and then sometimes, you know, like when it's something dangerous, you make sure that you set that boundary. Kids need to to play through. Some moments, when my son is acting up or acting out, I changed my mind and I say, he's not acting up, he's not acting out, he's not being disagreeable. He just wants to play through this. And so when I changed my mind about it, I

play with him through it. Then we eventually get there, like brushing teeth or you know, putting on your pajamas before bed. It's not that he doesn't want to do it. Why is he running around the house naked. He he's not trying to make me upset. He just wants attention in a certain way, and he wants to play through it. And at the end of everything, when my kids are older and I'm at the end of my life, what I want them to say about me is that Daddy

was fun. We always have fun with Daddy. So instead of me saying, hurry up and get to the bedroom and put on your pajamas, I'll chase him. I'll chase him around, pick him up, tickle him, and carry him to the bedroom and put on his pajamas. Because ultimately, when he's ten years old, he's not going to be running around the house naked. And and I think he is then and then I take back everything I'm saying.

But I'm hoping that when he's ten years old. I didn't leave those moments of you know, parenting where I could have used more authority. I didn't leave them in a way that made him a derelict. That's what I hope,

and I don't think it will be that way. So beautiful that you brought up the word play, because you know, I started so young, and I I lost so much of my childhood and it didn't really dawn on me till I had children around me and saw I mean, their dad is so wonderful with them and how he played with them, and I'm like, oh, I didn't being an only child and having a job so early on, like,

I missed play. And part of my discovery with the Massinger was getting to play again, like as a character, because I remember growing up, you know, being outside and playing on my own and having all these characters and people that I talked to and I created those, you know, when I was little, and it was all most like it took me back to being five again and getting to create a character and play. It's amazing that you're doing that with your children, because I think that adults

forget that piece. I think we as songwriters, as performers entertainers and singers. We are almost very last playground, the last real playground for adults. There, of course, are other forms of art that are entertaining and our playgrounds as well, but they're a bit rigid. Television shows and films, everything spelled out for you. Music, there's still a whole lot

of interpretation going on. Visual art, there's still a whole lot of interpretation going on, and we um we get to play with our fans and they get to play with us the whole day. You hear a song and it stays in your head the whole day, maybe a whole week or month, and you're constantly in this playground and you can go to it whenever you want because

nobody else can hear it. And I think that's one of the beautiful things that we have as songwriters, and hearing your story about the song session writing with other folks. I got into that a couple of years ago, and I dove, you know, headfirst into it with a bunch of blind date songwriting sessions, like just random people I never met in my life when I'm gonna go write a song with them. And I started to learn a lot of different techniques and songwriting methods, and I think

it's improved my ability as a songwriter. It's broadened my perspective as a songwriter as well. How does that control play into that piece? You know, I I surrendered, I surrendered right away. Not right away. Sorry, I didn't surrender right away. There was there was there were sessions where I was really really silly with the control. So I like, again, I enjoyed process, and I was experimenting, had theories and I had all kinds of you know, concepts about how

to make the best song. At one point, I was like, writing a song with a producer who's making a beat in the room, creating a vibe is cheating because is what you're doing is you're borrowing that vibe and you may end up skimping or slipping on the quality and the strength of the words. So I was like, let's just go in. We're going to write a song. We're just gonna write some lyrics and we're gonna come up with a melody. I'll have a piano nearby, so we

can come up with chords around the melody. But let's come up with a concept words lyrics, And you know, a couple of times that rubbed the songwriting partner the wrong way because they totally needed a vibe. They come from a vibe place, and um, you know, I didn't surrender and I didn't check their needs and I didn't acknowledge what the moment required. And so at this point I kind of sit back and I, you know, I glean the best from the people that I'm in the

room with. It's interesting, it's an interesting process to dance on that line and collaborate. And you know, I think, like I said, as an only child and someone who's been running my life for so long, thank god I actually had kids in my life to teach me a little bit of that. I think it's made me a much softer human being and be able to collaborate with

people because it's, uh, we're meant to be communal. People were meant to meant to collaborate like this, you know, when you do it with art, like you're all painting a picture together, And it's a beautiful experience to have to be able to connect with people on that level. Absolutely, Okay, on that beautiful note, We're going to take a quick pause, but when we return, Ala reveals his greatest takeaway from

behind that mushroom masque. Welcome back everyone. So I have a question I'd love to ask, given our shared ex barience, what did you learn from the anonymity of wearing the mask that you think you will take forward with you. Okay, this may sound a bit functional or clerical, but really it is be prepared no matter what. So part of me felt like, oh, I'm wearing a mask. I can phone it in, but it's not true, and you should never phone it in. Should always always be prepared and

always you know. The great thing about the mask for me as a woman was I could phone in my hair and make up. I was in sweats, sweats outfit back into sweats, like, did not care. I'd come in with wet hair. It was awesome. So yeah, definitely, always be prepared. And I think you had to be even more prepared, which we didn't know when we first started.

I think you had to be even more prepared because of the masks, Like you really had to know what you were doing because you were contending with many things interesting. I just want to pivot here and go into your history with your psych major I did. I did major in um psychology and linguistics when I was in college, which is very cool. When I was little, I was

like five or six. I have no idea how this came to my head, but I either wanted to be a singer, or I wanted to be the first female baseball player because I loved a baseball or I wanted to be a psych major I mean five or had no idea how all that came to be. But I just found that so interesting about you, Like, as far as wearing the mask, if we're going to talk about that from your psych brain, how do you see that

playing out in the world right now? Like the we've all been wearing masks for I mean, our whole lives. I mean, how do you feel do you feel like this is a time of as we're being revealed, do you feel this is a time that people are actually like starting to take those off. I don't know. I think people think they're starting to take their masks off. But I feel like social media has doubled down on

our superficiality. I think because we have these over enhanced, embellished lives where we only get to show the best sides on our Instagrams and our facebooks and twitters, that it's a mask that exists, and it it also it persists in a way that is wholly untrue because it's not the whole story. And it also makes other people

feel uncomfortable or inadequate or insufficient. When we look at our social media feeds and we see other people's lives that are so amazing, we're not qualifying the fact that there's a lot of stuff they're not showing us. So when we measure against our own reflection, we see all of the bad and all of the good, and it doesn't measure up to someone who's only showing you all the good. That's why I feel like I don't know

that we are unmasked yet. I thought that the pandemic would be a moment that would fully ignite this concept and enlighten everyone that we are all super connected and in the most existential ways, especially when it's just the air between us, that it is ultimately what could affect us right interesting politically, it just got spun terribly and

I think we as artists are opportunity. Our challenge is to unify, is to unify people again through music and bring people together and give them a chance to feel whole and human um without the pretense you know, Yeah, that wholeness piece is like you're saying, there's and I call it fragmentation. There's so much fragmentation that happens, especially on social media, where people feel like, oh, this piece

of me. And it's not just social media. I feel like for myself, you know, this has been kind of my life, of my whole life of don't bring that piece of you to the party because it's not accepted, you know, and you know, the mask of especially for me being the good girl and like all the things that were fed to me from a very young age, and that fragmentation for me, my healing of that has actually been the way I use social media is actually

to share the pieces that haven't been brought to the table. And that's new for me. That's a new revelation. And I think that this whole pandemic has actually enlightened me in the way of like, I want to bring all the things to the table that haven't been accepted, because that's the way healing happens to me, in my opinion, And you're right, I feel like this pandemic allowed us

to touch upon that. But there's a lot of bravery, there's a lot of you know it takes a brave soul to walk that path of being fully exposed and honest, and I'm still digging into the layers of that. But I do think it is our responsibility as artists who connect people. But also if we have the opportunity in the platform. For me, at least, it's like, I want to show up fully. The fragmentation for me has been so painful. I think sometimes if people really sit down

and think about it as painful for them too. You know, it's like if you can't if there are pieces of you that are unacceptable, they can't be brought forth, then like there's pieces of you that you aren't loving, that you aren't extending love to. I think that's like you're saying that that door opened for people, but did they walk through it? You know? Who knows. I feel like um, as an artist, I have not offered enough of who I am, of myself. I've been I've been playing the

game of presenting art and not presenting myself. And I always had this idea, this theory. You know, as an artist, I get to create characters. That's my artistic license, poetic license, is to create stories and characters and present something other

than who I am. But this last album for me was an opportunity to start trying to share are more that's emotional sharing, more that's personal sharing, more that's intimate, and getting even deeper and closer to who I am, hopefully in subsequent projects, so that I am showing up

fully and not just as the showman. Now I I I dug into your new record a bit, and and I see that, and I appreciate that because I think you have so many beautiful things to share and you're such a beautiful human being in your heart is just so in it, and I just really appreciate that and respect that about you as an artist, So so thank you. And speaking of artistry, because I know music obviously, like

we're saying, unites so many of us. And I always find it interesting to dig into everyone's little like music catalog and see what interests them and like what they're into. So we have this thing on here called the Holy Five. And so what would be like your five top songs that could be just what you're interested and now or what you've been like throughout your life, like what you've loved. What would be your top five? Okay, so it's all over the place like that. One of my favorite artists

of all time is Bill Withers. I feel like when I started singing, I adopted a lot of his style. Lean on Me would be one of my top five songs for sure, Lead on Me when You're I'm a huge, huge fan of Stevie Wonder. There are too many songs of his name put into a top five. But you know, I remember when I very first accepted Steve Wonder as my own. It wasn't my parents anymore, he was my own. Golden Lady was one of the songs, and that's the one that I remember having a huge impact on me

and my love for Stevie Wonder. When I started singing the artist that sort of made me make that transition from rapping to singing. I saw an infomercial for Cat Stevens, and in this infomercial, I saw his face and I saw him playing guitar and singing, and he felt like he believed every word he said. And the emotion that I just felt from just seeing him made me want to do that. And so there's a song called Father and Son that he has that's really powerful. Now that's

away and I know, but I have to go. His writing is amazing. Yeah, absolutely, Who do you love now? Like, what's something that's inspiring you are? Like? That's I cry to a song called be Good by Gregory Reporter. He's one of the new talents in jazz music. I have to heard that. I have to go listen the music video, the song, the lyric voice, the musicianship, all of it

is above a D percent in my opinion. But the one I think this mess so my best hasn't left me rude hi and it's hard for me to find that a lot of times where someone's punching way above average on so many different variables. Yeah, I agreed. What's about for your fifth song? If I may, what is your favorite off of your new record? Do you have? Harvard? Is my favorite off my new record Everything They Need? Do? We all got issues? It's just the stuff we live through.

Everybody's got the coffee stains. I ain't complained and I'm just singing. It's the last song on the album, and it's just, in my opinion, a touching story about how connected we are. We may have different livelihoods, different sources of income, we if under potentially different circumstances, but there are still emotionally some of the things that we just are trying to do that. It's all the same. We all want to be happy, we all want comfort, we all want to provide a life for our kids. And so,

you know, I really like that that song. I feel like it's one of the stronger songs that I've written. I love that. I love what I hear in your music is what I feel like. I'm where I'm going with mine right now, and like you're saying, it is connecting people, and it is reminding people of who we are and where you're going and where where you are right now and you're with your music is just beautiful. So congratulations on your new record. I know that takes

a lot to birth something into the world. So and thank you for coming on here, thank you for chatting with me about life and the mass singer, and I'm just honored that we're able to connect. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. I'm really happy that you asked me to come and talk to you and nice to catch up again. And if I didn't get my fifth song, then I would say Joni Mitchell's anything any anything, Yeah, maybe maybe Big Yellow Taxing very fun there's your playful side.

I love that. Well. Thank you, my friend, thank you, Yeah, much love. I'll see you sooner. Al Right, everyone, that's it for this episode. Please don't hesitate to share with anyone you think would benefit from listening, and I would love to hear from you too, so leave me a message and a rating and wherever you get your podcast on the next Holy Human will be with the incredibly amusing and inspiring Amber Hawken, the force of nature behind

an amazing book called The Unfunck Withible Life. Seven codes to embrace connection and vulnerability to create a life of inspiration and freedom. Until then, I wish you peace and much connection with those you love, especially yourself. Listen and follow Holy Human on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts.