Nerja, Spain: A Mediterranean Hideaway with Richard Carnaby

Welcome to the Where Do Gays Retire Podcast where we help you in the LGBTQ community find a safe and affordable retirement place. Join Mark Goldstein as he interviews others who live in gay friendly places around the globe. Learn about the climate, cost of living, health care, crime and safety and more. Now here's your host, Mark Goldstein.

Have you ever wondered what it's like living in Nerja, Spain today? Stay tuned and find out. We have our special guest, Richard Carnaby here and Richard is an actor based in Norfolk, uk, where he lives with his husband Steve and his two beagles. He's appeared in several films, one of which is due for release next month in the UK alongside Kevin McNally of Pirates of the Caribbean and Downton Abbey. He's currently performing Oscar Wilde's An Ideal Husband in the Duchess Theatre in Leicester, uk.

I got that right. Richard and Steve have been married for almost 14 years and have decided in advance of Stephen's retirement to buy and build a home on the eastern Costa del Sol in Spain. Their search began in the popular town of Nerja, but as time went on, they realized the lesser known town of Sanobrena was the perfect fit on the nearby Casta Tropical. I hope I pronounced all of that correct. Oh, 10 out of 10. Thank you, Richard. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Sure.

So, Richard, tell us about yourself. What led you and your husband to choose Nerja or nearby Sal as your future retirement? It was all a bit of an accident, actually, and the story sort of unfolds. I was introduced to NER Wow. About 25 years ago when I was with a previous partner. We owned a house there just outside in a small village called Friglana. And we then, yeah, we then parted ways and weirdly, I never thought it was likely that I'd go back. But then I met Stephen.

Time went on and what have you, and we were looking for a place to go and visit just for a long weekend. And the flights from here. Our nearest city is Norwich in Norfolk in the uk and it's on the east coast. And the flights were fairly commonplace to Malaga at the time. And we just decided to fly on a Thursday to Malaga and come home the following Monday, just for a long weekend break. It's only a two hour flight, a little over two hours. It was really, really simple. Whilst there, we went to.

We actually stayed in Marbella, which is on the western Costa del Sol. Much more touristy, urbanized, very developed and very popular. And whilst there I thought, well, actually, let me just Go back to. Let's take a drive across along the coast to Nerha and see how it is and what's changed, if anything. Because don't forget, this was about, I'd say, five, maybe 10 years after I'd previously been. And we went and we went up into the mountains to a little town called Kompata.

We went to Nerha and I said to Stephen, you know, what do you think? And he said, why wouldn't I love it? It's beautiful. And I suppose since then it's become our go to emergency break kind of place because of the ease of access. And then over time, again, sort of, whilst we've been married, we started to think, well, we don't do well in the winter here in the uk.

Let's be honest, I suffer from a degree of depression which is exacerbated by the dark nights and the, the gloom of winter here in the uk. Steve is very hard working and, and is slightly older than me, about five years older than me, so he's closer to retirement than I am.

And we thought, well, we'd like to find a place that allows us to live well in our retirement and that is, I went sort of house hunting very frequently over to the area on the Costa del Sol and we kind of decided that, yeah, actually we could make this work. And the intention is to spend several months in the winter months in Spain in the Costa del Sol and obviously the summers here in the uk.

That's the plan and that's what we're kind of the kit of parts is there and forming and coming together. Would you. So when you mentioned you were in Marbella, which is west of the Casa del Sol, west of Malaga, right? Yep. And then you traveled east to Nerja, what. What caught your eye? Like, what made the difference between those two locations? Was it the mountains or. Oh, you can't. The two are completely different. We, Stephen and I, aren't what I would call city dwellers.

Yes, we've had careers and we work in the capital of the uk, London, and I've worked in Nottingham and Leicester and Steve's worked all around the world as well. But we're not city dwellers, we prefer the countryside. And also whilst Marbella and Portobenus and all of the west coast there has elements of it that are beautiful, it's all quite purpose built. Whereas on the eastern side of Malaga things are a little bit more rural and a little bit more traditional.

It's still accessible by a fantastic road, the Autovia del Mediterraneo. Which goes all the way up to Barcelona, but it's not so urbanized, I would say. And we just felt that because we live in the countryside in the UK and again we've got access to good roads and an airport and train stations and things like that. Here we don't, we didn't want an environment that means we're confronted with people on all sides, whether you go out or whether you're out for a Sunday drive or a dog walk even.

We crave tranquility and a degree of isolation. And that was why we favored the eastern side, because it's not as heavily developed. Even though it's accessible to Granada, the city of Granada and Malaga, it's still relatively unfound, I think is the. An untrodden, I think is the phrase. It's a little bit of a secret. It sounds like the best of both worlds that. So you have access, really good access to urban lifestyle if you need it.

So in other words, you can go to Malaga on a. The same day and see a show or go to some restaurants that you want to and yet get away to the peacefulness of ne. Absolutely, yeah. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about climate and geography. Can you describe the climate and natural setting of Nerja and the surrounding Casa del Sol? Yeah, it's protected from the north. It's clearly south facing. It's on the. The southern coast of Spain.

It's protected from its north side by a mountain range called the Sierras de Oh, Sierra Taja. And the highest point of which is a ski resort, believe it or not, even though you are in at ground level or sea level, you're probably in 25 degrees. There is a ski resort up in the mountains and it's very popular. So you're protected from that north blast that we get here in the, in the northern hemisphere, I'm afraid for.

And so within that it, it faces south so that the climate is always very accommodating. Certainly in the winter months it rarely drops below 20 degrees Celsius, which is around about 70 degrees Fahrenheit. So but in the winter months it's not fiercely hot, so it's comfortable. And then of course, as you evolve into the, the summer in the northern hemisphere, of course it gets hotter, which again gives you license to relax.

There's nothing, you know, nothing wrong, there's nothing to feel guilty about by wanting to spend a day by a swimming pool in a 25, 30 degree heat. And that is what they're familiar with in Spain in on the south coast there. So, so that's the, the, the sort of heat factor. And I've, I've seen days where it has gone over 40 degrees Celsius, which is significant. It's a rarity. But it happens and it's happened more frequently, more recently.

There are strong winds at times and when it rains, it seems to really rain. They call them the inundations. And I've been there where one or two days, say in October, it's usually October and it does make the national international news where just for some reason a weather system gets caught by, I don't know whether by the mountains, between the mountains and the sea. I don't know what, I'm not a weather forecaster but, but, and whoa, does it rain.

And you know, people's cars get washed down the road and things like that. So, but that's a, that's the worst case scenario and it only happens infrequently. So other than that, you get the odd shower in spring and autumn, but from about June, 1 June onwards, it rarely rains all the way through to October. So what that does is, allows you a lifestyle that you can plan and you can, you know that you. It's not going to be rained off or snowed off, unlike the UK where.

Yeah, yeah, you know, and you can eat outside that simple relaxing pastime of, you know, having a beat. Absolutely. You can sit there and have your coffee in the morning without being rained on or you can have a beach picnic or you can sit by your swimming pool and have your evening meal and. Sounds so delightful, doesn't it? I know, I'm selling it well, aren't I, Mark? I'm kind of doing quite well, even though I've told everybody, I think it's the best kept secret.

I'm now telling everybody how great it is. But never mind, carry on. So explain to our audience. Nerja is also. Is it on the Mediterranean? It is. All of that coastline is Mediterranean. Okay, so it's just east of Malaga. Yeah. Anything east of Gibraltar is on the Mediterranean. Gibraltar is, is British, of course. It's a United Kingdom territory. Anything west of Gibraltar is, I think over towards Portugal is class as the Atlantic. So, so yes, we're on the Mediterranean coast.

The localized sea is called the Albaran Sea and it's a, again, not too heavily, not a lot of shipping traffic. It's a, it's a marine nature reserve which again is really lovely because it's protected so there aren't kind of masses of speedboats and Jet skis and water skis. Yes, there is some localized stuff going on off the beach, but it isn't a kind of heavily trafficked area because they have dolphins and, and, and other really heavily protected sea creatures of all kinds.

And you can do scuba diving, you can take a boat out and, and go scuba diving and all of that stuff. And of course because of the heat, you know, the, the sea warms up through August and it's at its best in sort of September, October. It's not a particularly freezing cold kind of sea. You know, you can spend time in it and actually it's quite a relief too. So from Centro Nerja, the beach is how far away? Oh, there are, there are about four or five beaches. Nerha itself is on the coast.

It's literally on the, on the shoreline and it's known as the Balcony of Europe. And there is a main, I've seen that balcony. Yes. There's a main prominent tree from the town square that juts out over the sea and it's called the Balcon di Europa, which is Balcony of Europe. And on a very clear day, and you would have to require a very clear day, you can see the northern coast of Africa from it. That's how geographically I suppose close you are to the northern coast of Africa.

But beaches across the town there's a couple of town beaches. One's called Calahonda, Torricella is another one and they're quite sweet twee little beaches. There's little beach huts and it's all quite traditional. It's not rammed full of sunbeds and commercial. You're not laying there next to somebody that you've never met kind of beach. It's not like that.

It's, unless you choose to of course, but, but, and the main big I suppose family orientated beach is called Burriana Playa Burriana, which is just east of the town. It's a little bit of a walk from the town center. Although they are trying to form a, a walkway between the town center and the balcony. Balcony through to Buryana. But that's where kind of most of the family activities are based.

Like, like I say, the, the bouncy castles and the, the, the water sports and that kind of thing that's more driven to family environment. There's restaurants and bars and, and beach bars and they call them chiringuitos, which is little restaurants that are on the sand where they keep your, your, your sardines on the barbecue. Absolutely. So there's a, there's a multitude of Choices, which is again, great. Further afield there's the more rural ones as well. There's a couple of naturist beaches.

How about towards Salobrena? Well, that's where the more rural ones I find tend to be. Do you still have beaches there? Oh, absolutely. Again, that's directly on the coast. Salabren, which is as, as we're about to talk about is, is further east, only about 10 minutes drive. Nothing dramatic. Salabrina is an old medieval town. It's got, is. Is formed around a giant castle that's in the middle. It was clearly a fortress back in the day of the.

The numerous invasions that Spain underwent hundreds of years ago. It's less touristy and this is where we eventually settled on a property. It's got everything that you want, your supermarkets, your bars, your huge beach. Huge beach. But it's not so well trodden and not so well known. And I think that's born out of the fact that it's just. First of all, it's in a different province. It's in Granada province rather than Malaga province.

So our, our technically our go to city at Sala Brent, when we, where we live in Salaabrenia is Granada, which. Is inland, is Malaga. Yes. Yeah, but they're only 10 minutes. No, her and celebrity are only 10 minutes apart. So really Malaga and Granada are equidistant from both. It's just Malaga is the big port, airport city. Whereas Granada, because it's inland, it hasn't got the port, it has an airport, but it's more traditional. It's certainly.

It's known by its Alhambra palace, which is a great big, one of the sort of wonders of the world style palace. It's huge. Salaba, as I say, is a little less developed, has got the elements of a, of an old Spanish town like Nerja. It's just not as well groomed and put up for tourism as Nerja is, which has its benefits and burdens. I suppose it's not so crowded. Certainly in the summer it's, it's more tranquil.

But of course you haven't got the variety of restaurants and other things going on because it's not so touristy centered. It's such. It's much more of a local Spanish town. Do you find yourself going into Nerja? Absolutely. No. Her is always. Neha is a great. Yeah, no, her is a great go to town. It really, really is. It's. It's got every single facility. You would really want access to health care. There's private doctors of all languages. There's clinics, that kind of thing. Dentistry.

There's, of course, supermarkets. There's more. What I have noticed about Nerha, and I have noticed it about many of the towns on the cost, these more small market towns on the Costa del del Sol is they don't have these overwhelming shopping complexes. It's, it's not like they're going to find the Beverly center just outside on the motorway. It doesn't work like that in Spain.

They're, they're quite, from what I can see, they, they quite like to keep things within the towns and keep it centralized rather than these big out of town shopping complexes. There are the odd one or two, but everything is centered in the town. So you've always got your pharmacies, your hairdressers, your restaurants, cafes, bars, shoe shops. Because it's walkable too. Absolutely. Everything is in walking distance as it is in Salabrenia. And is there a town called Torox? Torox isn't a town.

It's. Yeah, Torox is, is known as the best climate in Europe. Where is that? That is just about two miles to the west of Nerha. So you have to drive past it from. Yeah, yeah, it's very close. Torox is lovely. It's a sweet little Andalusian village, slightly inland. And again, like I say, it's because of its geographical location. It's kind of in a valley which is sheltered on all sides by mountains apart from the, the south, which is of course facing the sea.

So it's known as having the best climate in Europe. And the countryside around Torox is beautiful. It's very dramatic, very green and verdant, very hilly and, and lots of people have found beautiful villas in that area. And going up towards Kompata, which is nearby the town I mentioned earlier, but up in the mountains and. But Torox also has a Costa. Torox. Costa, which is a purpose built kind of beach location for the village.

And I've noticed that they've done that a lot in Spain where, where you have a city or town in the. In, in land, it will have its purpose built beach kind of vibey area also. So you can dip between the two. I mean, the classic case is Torolinos at Malaga was purpose built as the beach resort for Malaga. So again, it gives you all the options. You can hit the beach, you can stay in town, you can, you know, it's great.

Have you noticed any climate change in the region? Like I mentioned earlier, the odd day there's A there's a fierce moment in August and it's. August has always been blisteringly hot in Spain, full stop. And what tends to happen is you'll find people from Madrid, the Spaniards who, who work and live in Madrid and other big cities will have a home on the coast that they kind of migrate to for August because it's slightly cooler, even though it's 35 or 40 degrees Celsius.

But, but obviously they can jump in the pool or jump in the sea. And I've noticed certainly there's a, there's a, a moment in August, usually about a week long, that it is extraordinary hot, extraordinarily hot. The, the ween, the wind stops, is still, it's peaceful because nobody's moving, nobody dare go anywhere because it's just so you can't, you can't get tradesmen to do anything in August because. But, and also the rainfall in winter hasn't been as consistent as I used to know it was.

And there was a concern certainly about six months ago that the, the reservoirs. I know there's a big reservoir near Nerha called Lake Vinuela, which is a giant reservoir. Its resources were dwindling then they had the inundation in, in August, sorry, October, and it, it literally filled up within the space of about a fortnight. So they're. But, but, but there is an issue with water supply in the area. Quite a big issue.

And that's born out, not born out of development, that's actually born out of avocado farming. Believe it or not, a lot of the farmers have moved over to the global demand for avocados, which require huge amount of water. Water to irrigate them. And they're calling on the resource to make a living, which of course is having an impact on water supplies to urbanized areas, towns.

And I know certainly in the rural areas, areas like I mentioned earlier, outside Torox and Competa, they do switch the water off from time to time to residential areas to, to feed other residential areas. It is a little bit push me, pull you and give and take. How that's being addressed, I don't know. It's. Spain has faced this problem for several years. I don't know what to say. It is an issue for, for to consider. Yeah.

Okay, let's move on to the cost of living. So how would you describe the cost of living in Nerja and the Costa Tropical as opposed to the UK or. The US in the uk I don't live in the US So it's difficult for me to convey it, but I would imagine in the US life is expensive. I've worked and lived in la, I've visited New York. I know though certainly those places are expensive to live in all kind of directions. In the uk, life is expensive. Our food has gone up significantly.

Our resources like power, energy, petrol, diesel, gasoline, you call it, are all expensive. Spain is much cheaper. There are elements that are slightly more expensive but nothing of note. It's, and I think that's because they're connected to other countries in the eu, so of course supply chains are there. Food, it has to be mentioned, is cheaper. Is cheaper. Absolutely. And I think again that comes from the fact that it's easier to go out to eat in Spain.

People do, because the last thing you want to do is stand over a hot stove in a 30 degree heat at home. So just go outside, go out and get someone else to do it. And, and of course it's probably cheaper. Yeah, absolutely. But of course also it's easier to grow, you know, vegetables and that kind of thing is much easier to come by out there.

And their food standards, I personally feel a higher, I go, I love going shopping, food shopping in Spain because simply the colors and the, the life in the food on the shelves, on, you know, the grocery areas is, it's really flamboyant, I can't describe it. And it's much more of what I would call a higher standard compared to that in the supermarkets and grocery stores I see in England. I, I again, I don't know where that comes from. It just feels like it is. Alcohol is cheaper there.

However, their drink driving laws are, are much more tough. So be careful. Their threshold for being under the influence of alcohol whilst driving is really, really low. So don't think you're going to get away with having three cans of beer or whatever and getting in your car and driving home, because if you get caught, they will. And I, I don't want to get on the wrong side of the Guardia Civil. They look a bit scary. What's, what I've, what I've heard in Spain is though, like, wine is so.

Much cheaper because grapes are easier to come right. And you know, you'll have wine with lunch, you'll have wine with dinner, you might even have wine with breakfast. But the way they, they drink their wine is not like, you know, they go crazy. They take like a half a glass or a small portion of the wine and it's just like a social thing. Absolutely. We, I mean, we're British people are renowned for, across the world, for our poor management of alcohol. I make no secret of that.

And I'm gonna hold my hands up to that. We're terrible at it. And. But. But yes, absolutely. Out there in Spain, it is certainly more of a social thing. And it is very uncommon to see a Spanish person who is drunk. In fact, I don't think in all the time I've been going there nearly 30 years, and I can't recall a time where I've seen a Spanish person drunk. They're much more considered with it and much more measured. And you're right, it is a very much an addition to a meal, not a prerequisite.

Right. And I think, again, that comes from the heat. I mean, the lot. You know, the last thing, the worst feeling in the world is a thumping hangover when it's 35 degrees. It's just the. Oh, really? Why do we do that to ourselves? I've never done it out there, I have to say. I've never done it and I wouldn't. I avoid it because I don't want to feel like that. Right, yeah. Who does? Let's talk about. How about cost of living as far as the housing market is concerned? So you're building a house.

Yeah. So do you know what the average median, maybe the median home price is, in a word? No, because it's so variable. Because there are rural spots, unpopulated spots. You could quite easily pick yourself up a tiny little village house with maybe two bedrooms, a little roof terrace, little white sugar cube house with a living room kitchen for the equivalent of £30,000, which is, I think, around about $45,000. Ish, I think. Sorry. Yeah, that's in the more rural areas. Absolutely.

It would need some work, but it's yours and it's legal because it's in the. The town, so to speak. So it's urbanized all the way across to. If you want your beachfront villa with sea view from dawn till dusk, uninterrupted, of course, they go up into the millions. So there is a fantastic cross section of property prices depending. And it is all based on postcode. It is literally, you know those houses outside of.

On the edge of Marbella, on the Golden Mile there, where the Sultan of Brunei and the King of Saudi Arabia all have houses? Well, you're talking literally Bel Air prices. Whereas, of course, I could find a similar sized villa in the countryside just outside Torox for €300,000, which is a lot of money. But again, you aren't cheek by jowl to your neighbor, you've got towns and villages that you want to visit close by. It all depends what you want.

But I assure you it's, I would argue it's cheaper than, certainly cheaper than the uk. I mean, I don't know again, it's, I'm pretty sure the, the cost of housing across the US will vary where, where you want to be. It's that supply and demand stuff. But it's funny, I found myself, we found ourselves not wanting to be in the sought after areas, which might be a fantastic lesson to sort of watch as it's understandable. How about groceries, dining out prices, Transportation.

How did they compare to the uk? Transportation is brilliant. The road network, I mean, the first thing I always notice when I get home to the UK is how terrible our roads are. And even though we have motorways and high, you know, six lane highways, the Spanish road network, the motorway network is brilliant and it's almost under subscribed. You could drive on a motorway and not see another car and think, where is everybody?

And I know certainly on the west western Costa del Sol they have toll roads as well, which are completely empty and you pay your five euro toll and you can race down to Marbella. So. And also the public transport system is very effective. Actually, Noha and Salaba aren't on a railway network, which I think is, dare I say it, a good thing, keeps the people out. I'm glad you said it. They are on a very good bus network, very efficient bus network.

And I've never used the bus, but I see them and they are very frequent. They're very clean and tidy looking. The locals use them, the Spaniards use them all the time. You see them. And I don't believe from what I hear in Facebook forums for the town and things like that it's only a couple of euros, which is not a dramatic to go anywhere. These are fairly frequent. They go up into the countryside, into the villages, serve the villages also off to Malaga, into Malaga.

Malaga, where you can get the very efficient training service. Yeah, you can. You've got the train service out of Malaga which goes along the west coast to Toromalinos and another locations for Wangarola. Yeah. But it also goes direct to Madrid, other big cities all the way through. They have the bullet trains. They do, they do, they do, they do. And I've been on a train. I haven't been on a bullet train. I've been. And again, it's clean, tidy, efficient and it's, it's very user friendly.

Yeah, absolutely. What's the transportation time from by bus or by car from Nerha to Malaga? Hour and a half. Oh, it's that far from Malaga? Yeah, on the road, I think. Yeah, I think a bus would take a little bit longer. I, I've done her to Malaga in an hour. On the, on the road, on the car. In a car. But I guess by bus you're talking an hour and a half to get into the center of the city. Yeah. So it is far away. I mean, far enough that you have peace and quiet and seclusion.

I, I think that distance is meaningful. Yeah, absolutely. And it brings a lot of benefits and it, again, it depends what you want. If you want people, if you, you don't want isolation. There are areas in the Costa del Sol of all kinds that you can find a home in. But for us personally, the eastern side was the winner at all times.

Because, because it allows you, if you want to go in and dip your toe into the busy stuff, of course you can, but you always go home and, you know, have a quiet night's sleep. Do you know what the cost of Internet and those kind of utilities like gas and electric? No, there's no mains gas. There's no such thing as mains gas. They have bottled gas delivered in the countryside, which I. Excuse me, sorry. They have bottle gas delivered in the countryside.

A little man with a little truck comes around and drops you off your bottles and takes your empties away. I don't believe it's particularly expensive, but I don't also believe it's particularly efficient. I know our house build.

We concentrate on electric and because it's south facing and we're going to get away with solar panels on the roof and that's going to prop up the hot water and the city central heating, what heating you actually need, don't forget, you don't actually need a lot of heating, A lot of the air conditioning that you do. And, and of course that, that provides a reverse function of heating as well. If you needed warm air on a particularly rare occasion where it is cool enough to, to need it.

I don't get a sense it's particularly expensive though, Mark. Neither is water, strangely, given its degree, the degree of scarceness. I, I don't believe it's particularly expensive to fill up a swimming pool or even just, you know, fill up a kettle to boil yourself a cup of coffee. It's, it's all fairly accessible. And I think it would be wrong to think that this is a primitive place where resources are scarce and, and difficult to come by and expensive as a result.

It's that it's not like that at all. It's a very well accomplished organized area of the country with great facilities and utilities, Internet and broadband and that kind of thing. Do you know what? I don't know, forgive me, I genuinely don't know what the comparison would be. I know in the countryside people have kind of satellite broadband and I think there's one big company called Axel Fusion who provide it. I don't get it.

Again, I think because it's so domestically available, I don't get a sense that it's expensive and I don't. And I think it's fairly reliable as well. So, yeah, I've heard others in different parts of Spain say that it was pretty inexpensive. So yeah, yeah, it's not a drama. Seriously.

Okay, let's move on to the LGBTQ community or lack of now. So we know Spain is very LGBTQ plus, you know, oriented or, or minded. What's the community like in Nerja or Rena as far as compare comparing it to Malaga? Is there any type of community, Is there an LGBTQ community at all? Malaga. And it's kind of a neighbor. Toromalinos is where the major gay LGBTQ plus communities congregate to socialize.

And again, Toromalinos has a purpose built zone, I would call it a kind of neighborhood which is alive with bars, clubs, venues, restaurants. And it's lovely, it's, it's really sweet. And, and what's lovely about what I really, I was there in March actually. It was a friend of mine's 30th birthday and we went out on a Saturday night and we were there till 5am and I'm nearly 50 years old and I thought, oh my God, I can, I can't do this anymore. This is crazy. And it was great.

But what I loved about it, it was, wasn't just little kids or I, I say little kids, you know, your, your late teens, twenties, thirties. There's there's also a cross section of ages and there's drag and there's, there's, there's leather. There's. There, there's. So, so the night scene is concentrated in Torolinos and Malaga, Nura and Salabren. Yes, it's much more restrained. And I think that is by choice. I think like you said in the introduction to that question, Spain is incredibly tolerant.

They're a fantastically welcoming and tolerant nation. And it's fine to be gay. You know, I've been there with my husband and my. Nobody cares. No one gives us stuff. I, I admit, I. We don't hold hands. We don't do public displays of affection. I don't believe for a second if I did, I would get a scowl of any kind. It would not be received unpleasantly at all. Like in the uk. Is it like the us like, is there anti. There's a degree of.

Yeah, the UK is a. Oh, I don't want to go into politics, but we, we have some influences in the UK at the moment that. To the lgbtq, you. Even though we've got a. An arguably a socialist government, the Labor Party at the moment, which is more left. Left leaning, there are some influences in the UK off to the right that aren't helping. And whilst it is perfectly legal and lawful and okay to be gay and, and show that in the. In on the street in the uk, you know, holding hands, I'm always.

I personally am always reluctant to. Because we hear the stories, I'm afraid. And, And I don't want to be dragged into some sort of show where just because I, I don't know, patted my husband on the back and, you know, put my arm around his shoulders, all of a sudden I'm dragged into. Oh, you know, that's all wrong, those kind of comments. But, but it is lawful. It's just, it's more restrained here. It's like the U.S. yeah, what you're describing.

But, but, but Nerha, you're right, there are pockets. There's the odd venue that is. I wouldn't say exclusively gay. It's leaning towards gay. There's no particular zone or street or shop that I can think of that is of relevance to the gay community. There's a beach, actually, fairly in between Salabino Nerja. There's a beach, actually. It's on the edge of the national park, so it's not developed at all. There's just a couple of little beach bars and that is it.

And the car park and it's beautiful. And there is a gay zone of that particular beach, which I think. Because it's secluded. Absolutely. Yeah. But, but, but. And again, it's beautiful. I've been there. I make no secret. It's fine. And there's a naturist area and it's so. It. I don't think that's anything negative though, why it's done like that. And I, I just think it's formed out, it's been formed organically.

I always describe Nerha and Sala Brenya and certainly the Countryside where I've rented villas so often over the last 25 years while we're house hunting and holiday as somewhere where if I don't want to be found as an actor, let's just say I became the next who, I don't know, Tom Cruise. It's just imagine if I don't want to be found, that's where I'll go because it's accessible to me and I know where to get to and I know how to get to where I need to be.

But it's also difficult for other people to find you. It's secluded, it's discreet, it's select and that is why we chose it. It's not in your face, it's not brash, it's not, you know, drag dragon. It sounds refreshing, but it doesn't need it. And, and I think if that's your choice of a location for a home or a holiday destination, don't expect fireworks and, you know. Right. Feather boas. All right, gotcha. No, I totally get it, I totally get it.

But everyone seems to be very welcoming and absolutely, they won't bat an eye. And also because it's a, a hotbed of other nationalities, you know, British people and Americans and Canadians aren't the only people buying holiday homes and retirement homes. Don't forget it's accessible hugely to the north European market. So Germany and Dutch, Sweden, Switzerland, all of those traditionally, I would argue, cold locations where, where again, gay couples.

I, I know I, I can think of a handful of gay couples that I've met whilst holidaying in Nerha that have. They come from Holland and Sweden and Denmark open and, and those locations are always totally, you know, fabulously accepting and to, to the gay culture and Iceland. I. Absolutely. So, you know, you will always find this fantastically accepting culture in Neha and celebrity. That's great. Yeah, that's great. Great. Let's talk about walkability again. Transportation.

So we, we talked about how accessible the wet towards the west is with rail. Nerha has buses. How about walkability? So can you walk to everything in Nerja? If you lived in Nerja or in Sala, could you walk to the pharmacy? Yes. Grocery store. Yeah. The short answer to that question is yes.

You will always find something, of course there, like, like I said earlier, there are bigger supermarkets accessible by the motorway and things like that, but you will always find little grocery stores, little shoe shops, little designer boutiques, the, the, you know, the shop where you need to buy some sun lotion. The pharmacy, there's Yet Nerha is a very accomplished market town and there is a regular market as well on the outskirts of the town. Again, I, I could. I know my way around it and.

It'S all walkable here is not always better. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Says who? And Sala Brenya is the same, but it's more, it's a smaller town generally got a smaller population and, but everything is walkable or bikable and, and there's ample car parking as well. So if you do live outside and you need to go into town, there's ample car parking either on street or in purpose built car parks around the town. Do you need a car if you lived in ner?

No. If you lived in the countryside or one of the villages outside, I would argue yes. My home is, is in an area, it's a gated development called Monte de los Almondres. I've got the card in front of me for the, the administration office and it's. That translates to Almond Mountain and it's a, an estate that is outside of the town of Salabren.

And actually, whilst it's a beautiful location and every home is like that, like you would see in sort of those Bel Air estates where, where every home is beautiful and they have the green hedges and the big gates and things like that, there isn't a shop on that particular area of the town. So you would need a car. You've got neighbors, you've got, you know, a communal pool which is rarely used because.

And a tennis court and a paddle port and things like that, which is rarely used because everybody's got their own blooming pool anyway. But there isn't any retail there, so you would need a car. And is there car riding services like Uber? No, no, no. There's taxis. There's. There's taxis, but there isn't a, an app based. Not that I'm aware of it. It will creep in, I'm sure.

Then there probably is one in Malaga and Marbella because they're more businessy, they're more financially kind of driven cities with finance districts and, and things like that. But no, I can't recall seeing anything like the app based service like those, Uber and Bolt and things like that yet. Okay. But of course you can just pick up the phone and ring a taxi.

Lots of people actually fly in and get a taxi to their home where they've got a car waiting for them that they purchased to sit with their home. It saves them parking at the airport, it saves them frantically driving to the airport late or whatever takes the stress out of all that bit. So that's quite commonplace. So, yes, walkability is great and actually quite relaxing. Yeah, sounds like.

Let's talk about health care. I don't know if you've experienced the health care system, but you. You probably know about it in, in Spain, in general. So is there a hospital in Nerja? No, there's lots of small. There's lots of small clinics, private ones. What's the closest? Oh, the, the closest hospital hospital. Yeah. There's a large one at a town called Veles, Malaga, which is about halfway between Nerha and the city of Malaga. It's a big half hour, 30 minutes maybe.

Yeah, yeah, around that, yeah. And of course, there are big hospitals in Malaga. There's a couple of. That I can think of. I've seen signs for. I've. I've had to use healthcare out there a couple of times and it is better, although more costly, to take the private route. It's easier. And, and you know what, forgive me for being blunt, but if you've got enough money to retire to Spain, you've got enough money to pay €50 for a GP appointment, doctor. So. And also I'm.

We're going through the visa process at the moment where we can apply since we've left the. The uk, left the eu. Yeah. We have to now apply for visas to, to live and work in Spain for any reasonable amount of time. So I'm currently going through the visa application process. What. What type of visa are you applying for?

We're having the, the domestic nomad visa, so we can still work from Spain without restriction and it allows us to reside there and carry on our work in the UK and potentially in Spain as well. I'm an actor, so, hey, I might get an advert to advertise a car in Barcelona. I don't know. But. And I know part of that, that visa application process is proving that we've got adequate private health care cover that you can purchase.

You can purchase an insurance policy or alternatively, you can pay for it ad hoc as and when you need it. Like I say, I can't remember what the health care issue was now, to be honest. It was a good few years ago, but I thought, you know what, I'm going to go and get this looked at. And what is great about it being a private system is that you pick up the phone, you book in, you go down and you have your appointment and that's it. And you're seeing at the time you Booked it.

You haven't got away in queues, you haven't got a, you know, run around buildings looking for the relevant doctor or the relevant reception desk to, to get yourself to where you need to be. It's all just done and there and sorted and so it is a private based system.

There is a cost to that but from what I've seen also the standards are high and I know there are hospitals in Marbella, which of course is a good couple of hours away from where we're talking about that are the best in the world or considered the best in the world for various treatments. I understand. Is it true or pro. Do you. You. You'll be applying for private health care, Correct. So yes, yes. Do you have any idea what it cost costs? I think anywhere from 100 to $200 a person per month.

I think it would depend on your age, your any, any pre existing conditions. Conditions whether you're a smoker, whether you're a drinker. All of those things fall into place, don't they, when, when considering this kind of policy. And actually I haven't had my quote back yet from my visa consultant who, who's doing ours. So in answer to your question, I don't know but I would, I. It's again, we're in a situation where it's a commercial country where provision is available.

It. I, I would imagine given how many people require it who are retiring or visiting or residing, certainly from the uk, let alone Germany, France, sp, you know, Sweden, Holland. It's a fairly accessible. There are fairly accessible schemes available with the relevant cover that's necessary. Now once you get your visa, how long does it take to get on to the public system? I can apply for residency in. I can apply for residency at any time actually. Whether I'll get it or not, I don't know.

But you can become a citizen within three years. So. But the public health care system, 1, 1, 2 visa. I, I actually don't know the answer to that question. But, but. And I think the very fact that we've got to have a private health care policy means we can't. I think it's a year, I think, I'm not quite sure if it's three months or a year. Yeah, but I think you need private health care. Yeah. For a year.

Yeah. And then when you're eligible for the public, since you haven't been paying, paid, you haven't paid into the system, the Social Security system of Spain all of those years, there is a charge. I think it's something like 70. The equivalent of €70 per month if you're below. If you're less than 65 years old. Okay. Younger than 65 and 65, it goes up double. Yeah. We do have a benefit that has maintained and been retained since the UK left the EU of reciprocal health care.

So. Yeah. So I know British citizens, if you're in, you can apply for a card while you're in the UK and it's a little blue one with, with the European and British flag on. And that allows UK citizens to have reciprocal free emergency health care, which is the same that we would get in the UK if we needed it. Whether that. That wouldn't. That would. That. That covers emergency provision. I don't know. Say I slipped down the stairs and broke my leg on holiday or whatever.

Think that would allow for a more residency based issue like say perish the thought. I was living in Salaba and I contracted cancer. I don't think that that cover would, would allow for that. Which is why the policy would kick in for us. Right. I don't know how that sits with American or Canadian. Yeah. So I think after that period of time of your residency, I think it's a year. And then you can pay into the public system as well. And there's no pre existing conditions with the public system?

No. Okay.

Let's talk a little bit about arts, culture and dining. Moving right along. What's the cultural scene in Nerja? Beautiful. The first thing that springs to mind, and don't forget Malaga is the home of Pablo Picard, the artist. Granada is very artsy. So what I love about Nerha, as I've mentioned before in celebration, is every shop, every little corner, there's something individual, it's very cultured.

And that part of Spain has over the years been fought over from medieval times and beyond by different Romans, the Moors, the Jews. It's, it's. No. The area is known as the village of three cultures. So. So there is a lot of history. There's a huge amount of history. And the first thing that springs to mind is the caves in. They are again, I would argue, a wonder of the world. There's a beautiful cave complex that's open to the public, very cheap and accessible, just outside the town.

And it's amazing. And they hold music concerts in there, which of course the acoustics are extraordinary. You've got museums, obviously. Celebr, as I mentioned earlier, is based around a great big medieval castle fortress, which is great. It's kind of like this pinnacle on, on the, the top of the hill, you've got the influence of Pablo Picasso in Malaga. There's art galleries, there's museums.

Malaga is a beautiful old colonial city and some of the architecture is really quite beautiful, as is in Granada. So yes, it's, it's, it's there if you want to go and find it and look for it. Absolutely. And aside from that, there's walking trails into the mountains, there's quad bike rides, there's, there's all that will take you into these untouched kind of corners of the mountain, mountainous area. There's a great deal of culture going on if you wanted. It's Spain.

They don't need asking twice to have a festival about something, I assure you. I don't think I've ever had a two week holiday in Spain where there hasn't been a holiday of some description. A public holiday where all the shops are shut and, and they're all partying or doing something in the town square is so it's brilliant. I mean, good for them. They know where, what it's like. They have the right idea. Yes. Their, their public holiday life balance is the one that I really, really aspire to.

Yes. How about if you wanted to go to theater, where would you go? To Malaga. Yes, yes. Yeah, I, I can't think of a theater in Neha. There's a cinema in Veles, Malaga. But, but your big cinema. But like live theater. Live theater. I would, yes. It would have to be Nerha. Sorry, Malaga or Granada. But also, I believe. What's anything going to say? Oh, it's gone now. Oh, flamenco. Oh yeah. Well, as well. So you would think I, we, the last time we were there in March, stumbled on this over.

I've been going to know her for nearly 30 years. Stumbled on a bar that I have walked past dozens of times, a doorway. It's. It was completely inconspicuous and we went in and saw the complete works of a flamenco show that was totally raw, untouched, beautiful as it would be. I mean, you know, I'm not an emotional person, but I sit sat there watching this flamenco dance with a tear in my eye thinking this is absolutely beautiful.

So there are these pockets of culture that again, if you go digging, you'll find it. It's gorgeous. Great. How about dining? Oh, again, you can you. You've got the cross, cross section from high end, you know, Hulk cuisine all the way through to down to pizza. Now in Nurheim, is it also a cafe culture where everybody eats outdoors? Yeah, absolutely. The weather allows for it. The. Because Most of the streets are cobbled and pedestrianized. It's. There's always cafes and baths.

The balcon itself is, is alive with, with outdoor eateries, but of course there's others that are set back and, and, and hidden in the town. There's lots of beachfront eating, dining, which is beautiful. Sitting there eating your, your fish that was caught in the sea literally there while, and hearing the waves crashing. There isn't a real demand of any kind that I've noticed for fast food there. I can't blame them. There is no McDonald's, Burger King, Five Guys, nothing keep them away.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I've heard it mentioned that one of the service stations on, on the motorway might be getting a McDonald's. And literally the outpouring of hatred on, on, on the Facebook forum was no, keep it away, don't allow it, leave it alone, don't do it. But no. So again, if, if McDonald's or Burger King is your thing, you're choosing the wrong location. Not to say there aren't burger, you know, American style burger places, but they're more. Right. But that. Yeah, yeah.

And they're great. And again, it's also individual. There's a Mexican I can think of. There's, there's. Oh, sushi. Beautiful Japanese restaurant. Seriously, I bet you don't have Chinese. Not takeaway. I can't think of a takeaway actually. No, that's a very English thing. Yeah. Oh, what's he done? Tip his coffee over. So again, if you can't find something you like, I would argue there must be something wrong with you. Right. And again, it's all so fresh and, and bespoke sort of cook there.

And then it's I. Because the restaurants are all fighting for customs. The standards are high. Standards are very high. And the service is very, very good as well. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, let's talk a little bit about crime and safety in Nerha. Is there an. Any kind of crime? There's certainly no serious crime that I can think of. See you don't even. So Spain doesn't allow guns. Well, as the uk Yeah. I think guns are lawful in Spain. They're. They're not lawful. Are they not? Okay, pass.

I, I thought they were. I've not come across a particularly serious crime in all the time I've gone there. And I know areas of the west coast. Again, I'm going to talk about Marbella, which are. Because Marbella developed from the 60s onwards as a millionaires playground, it's known as. It's Like Beverly Hills. Absolutely. And it's beautiful. You're right. It's well groomed. There are beautiful cars, beautiful people, beautiful homes. There is also an element of underground crime in Marbella.

In fact, one British journalist did a big article on Marbella and basically said, marbella is the place you either go to to do shops or get shot. And it's known. Whereas on the east side, I've not seen anything even remotely near that. There is the odd pickpocket incident and it's funnier. And again, there are what I would call, I don't know what you call them, guys that sell fake handbags and fake luggage.

They're more prevalent on the west side because they attract, they're attracted to the tourism who buy their fake Gucci bag and their fake fondi purse or whatever and they sell them on the streets. That element has only just crept in, into Nerha in about the last five years. And there's only, I can think of two guys that walk about selling these faux bags.

And again, when somebody on one of the Facebook forums for the town said, oh, look, you know, I've just purchased three handbags and a, and a clutch purse for €200, everybody attacked this woman and said, you do realize you're funding organized crime. Stop, don't do it. So there is a real kind of sense of protection of, no, we don't want crime here and we won't tolerate it. It in, in, in a town like nha, yeah, you get your petty little bits.

And I know certain houses in the countryside get burgled because it, you know, and they, they're usually holiday homes because people watching them, the, the, the burglar watching them knows that well, that that owner is Swiss. They've gone home for the next month. I can break into here anytime I want and no one's going to come knocking. But of course, if you're.

Again, if you've got a beautiful home that you want to Protect, you have 24 hour security and, and you know, you can have your cameras and your alarms and things like that and, and your little man that will turn up in his, in his car with the little orange light on the top just to check it every day. So there's, there's always defenses to the crime of which again, there isn't a lot.

So let's say you lived in Nerha and you went to a restaurant at late hour because Spain just starts eating maybe at 10pm Absolutely. Yeah. When I'm like in my third dream by then. But let's say you finish dinner, it's midnight, you want to walk home. If you were living in Nerha, would you feel safe walking home? Without a shadow of doubt? No other answer to that. Even women, I've heard, feel safe. Yes, yes, it's, it's, yeah, totally.

I can't think of a, an area or a place where I would question that. No, absolutely not. It's completely at ease, comforting. Oh, totally. It's funny, last year I had to go over and sign some papers to do with the house build and my flight time, it was August and my flight time was at silly o'clock in the morning and I parked my car in the town center and had to walk through the town center to get to the car about 3am actually.

So it was the dead of night with my luggage and you know, my passport and wallet in my pockets and things like that. And I can remember seeing people and you know, walking in the street, walking about. Not, not. I can remember seeing police cars driving about, the local police, all the civil guard. I didn't even think about crime. It didn't, it didn't occur to me what I was doing. And so no, I, I, I, Yeah, absolutely. Safe types of. Very comforting. Yeah, very, it's a very comforting feeling.

Feeling that you're, you're safe and not. Even have to think about completely, completely anything. Yeah, other.

Okay, so let's talk about perception versus reality. Many people picture Nerha as a touristy beach town. What do people often get wrong about life there. From the point of view of an English person? What Nurha isn't is Brits abroad. We again, we have at times in areas of the of Europe. British people have a terrible reputation of wanting everything cheap, everything basic, being loud and brash to get it. You know, we drink too much, we party too hard. You will not find that in Nerha.

It is and remains a quintessential straightforward, well groomed and well cared for Spanish town. So when people think of the Costa del Sol, that's what I'm getting to is when people think of the Costa del Sol in Spain, they think of those urbanized party capitals and those, you know, lots of sunbeds by big swimming pools at great big complex hotels. No, it's not like that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's simple, sedate, twee, easygoing, take me as you find me. And it's very, very beautiful.

And it's also not a beach town. It's on the beach, it's on the coast. But there's so much more hidden behind, behind those bright lights of the balcony. There's a lot more. There's winding paths and, and, and sweet little alleyways with little boutique shops in. Just go beyond those bright lights in that central balcon area and you'll find all sorts. Like I said, the flamenco bar we stumbled upon last time in March, which was packed in March given the demand.

So you know, we had to book when we swore it. So yeah, that, that's what people get wrong. It's not Brits abroad and I think that's steered off from also the other European influences, the Germans, the Swedish and the Scandinavians. What else do people get wrong? No, that's about it really. It's. What would you say to someone who's unsure about retiring in Spain or hesitant about moving abroad? What would you say to them?

Go and have a look but also try and live it rather than be a holiday maker. And by that I mean rent an apartment of the sort that you might like to live in. Rent the villa of the sort that, that you might like to retire to and live it, you know, hire yourself a car and drive around and, and think well you know, is this, you know, if I lived here, would I put up with this house that's up in the mountains? How perish of thought, how would an ambulance get to me?

Where do I go for my next grocery shop? You know, if I went rent this apartment, how many flights of stairs have I got to go up if I live in the town center? Where, where do I park my car? Will it cost me a fortune? Just live it like even for two weeks, three weeks, live it like you would be living in it and sample it at different times of the year because yeah, it's got a beautiful climate. It really, really has.

And that's what's drawn me and us and the health benefits of that beautiful climate and sunlight. But of course he isn't for everyone, you know and, and, and, and certainly I know I can think of my mother in law who's in her 80s. She would hate to, to be in a 35 degree heat. She just can't deal with it. However, we've taken her out for Christmas and taken her to Spain for New Year and she's loved it because she can walk around in a jacket. It's not freezing, freezing, freezing cold.

And she's, you know, she loves the cafe culture. She sit there and have a coffee and watch the world go by. So what I would say to, if you are thinking of sampling that area just Go for it and live it. Don't pretend to be a tourist. And also, one other thing is, for heaven's sake, try and learn some of the language. Ah, yes, we didn't, we didn't touch on that. So I'm glad you brought that up because you do. You are fluent in Spanish. I am. See?

And not, and don't get me wrong, the, the locals in Nerha and the venues and the restaurants and shops, they all speak a degree of English. And because they've, they've developed with English tourism and English tourists for 50 years, for heaven's sake, so they're familiar with it. However, I noticed when I started learning Spanish and speaking to Spanish people in Spanish in Spain, I mean, I'm a great believer in don't ever go to someone's country and try and teach them your language.

Learn theirs first, for heaven's sake, at least a bit. Show them some accord and respect. I noticed I was treated completely differently and this place played out actually in March again, we were sat on the balcony weirdly having a cup of coffee and I spoke to the waitress in Spanish and her face lit up and I ordered all the food and all the drinks in Spanish and she was speaking back and, and, and then I saw her, I just.

We watched her speak to a British couple behind me on us, on the table next door. And actually they were really quite blunt almost. Again, we have this fantastic, terrible ability to. If we don't understand the language, we shout English at them a bit louder. I want a beer, please. Can't you understand me? And this happened and I just watched this waitress look at this couple as if to say, for heaven's sake, what on earth do you think you're doing?

You know, I'm not d. You know, and, and it's just disrespectful. It, it's not, it's just. Yeah, ill considered. And so if you're going to dance in someone else's dance floor, learn their music and, and, and, you know, and, and that even just a bit, and the laugh of it is I get things wrong. You know, I've gone around saying, thinking I'm saying the words, hello, I'm Richard, I speak a little Spanish when actually I'm walking around saying, hello, I'm Richard, I'm a little Spaniard.

So, you know, and, and these, these people are staring at me thinking, oh my God, they, you quite clearly are mad. But they try with you and they help you out as well and they'll work with you if you try and they, you know, and they find it is flattering to them. And then they want to learn English, too. Oh, God. Yeah. And. And that's the hilarious. Again, the bizarre thing is, you know, I've been having conversations.

We're building a house, as we know, as we've discussed, and I'm having a conversation with the architect, and I'm trying to speak to him in Spanish, developing my Spanish. And he. No, he says, I want to speak English. So we have an argument. It's like, no, I'm in Spain, I'm going to speak Spanish. Manager. No, my client's English. I'm gonna speak English. So it all just goes horribly wrong, really. But. But yes, that. That is what I would say as well, is at least try.

Even if you get it wrong, they won't laugh at you. And it opens up a whole different life and vision on. On the country that you're in. Oh, heavens. Yeah. And it opens up more doors as well. Yes, yeah, yes. You'll find if you telephone and book a table in Spanish, you'll probably get a better table in the restaurant than you will if you do it in English. I believe. Yeah, I believe. Yeah. Great.

So, for wrapping up, Richard, finally, what do you personally love about building your future in Nerha and Sala Brenya?

Oh, the vision. We've never been people that kind of live life like it's over there, and there's something that we're constantly chasing, but this is a destination and. And I suppose we've taken a route. We couldn't find the house we wanted, which is why we've chosen to buy a building plot and build it, because I've built my own home in the uk and I just thought, you know, what if I've done it in England, I could do inspiration Spain. How difficult could it be?

And it's just that knowing and feeling like all the things we've discussed that that destination is safe, warm, welcoming, friendly. You. I've worked way, my way through the currency and the. I've got a bank account and all of those things that, you know, you. Those boring domestic things like finding yourself a solicitor and a lawyer and all of those things, but it's all doable and actually strangely easy, even though there's a language difference. And so. So it's to me, the.

Is the vision and the destination and. And that knowing that I've got that place to hide. And actually the house is called Escondite, which in Spanish is Hideaway, because it's our little home. And our hideaway. And that is what I'm so looking forward to. And again, I can't help but recommend it. Just go and look and decide for yourself. There's plenty on offer there and it's a wonderfully welcoming country. Really is great advice. Well, thank you so much, Richard. You are welcome.

Thank you for having me. Thank you for joining the podcast. Yeah, it's been great. We learned a lot about Nerha and Salo. Salo. Sal. I forgot the accent. The end has got a bounce in. It's an accent. Okay, well, thank you very much and we'll talk soon. You are welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Bye Bye. Thank you for listening to the Where Do Gays Retire? Podcast.

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