Hi. What the health tech listeners? I'm your host, Chloe Weatherhead. This is the podcast where we tackle some of the trending topics, ideas and best practice in health and social care. This week we're speaking to Mike Taylor, CTO at Radar Healthcare.
Mike's IT journey started when he was a child programming on the zedx spectrum, showing his age. He would spend hours coding Sinclair Basic. He didn't pick this love of everything IT until his early twenties after doing several varied jobs from working on cars, sports, and teaching. It was at night school that he rekindled his love for software development doing c and vb6. The rest is history.
Working his way up through the ranks in several head of and director level roles in the IT legal industry and joining Radar Healthcare at the end of 2021. Mike's main focus is helping the company grow from a strategic point of view, building teams and their structures, upskilling team members, and assisting growth in UK and international sectors from a technical standpoint. Outside of work, Mike has a keen interest in health fitness and has competed in bodybuilding around the world, even stepping on the Mr Universe stage once graced by mister Swartzenegger himself. Hi, Mike. Welcome to What the Health Tech.
Hi, Chloe. Thanks for that amazing intro.
Today, I want to talk a bit about system integrations and what that means for health and social care organizations. We hear the term interoperability and integration used a lot, but it'd be great to find out more about what it means, why it's beneficial, and why systems should have that ability to talk to each other. A good place to start, what do we mean by integration?
Yeah. So integrations, it is a it encompasses a lot. So we've got things like, in simplistic terms, it's application to application or sometimes abbreviated to a to a. So it's how one application can talk to another one and pass data between the 2. So some examples would be, you know, in sort of health care when you've got one system that wants to use, a u user's information from another one.
So it could be active directory. So it could be that your healthcare system wants to get login information for that for for you logging into the system. So we would you we would connect to Azure AD, and we'll be able to pull that information down into into radar, for example. Okay. Another example could be, the likes of Epic and Cenon and these type of things where you're for example, imagine you're filling out a form in in radar or in any other system.
And rather than typing that information in, you want to be able to lock up this data. So from drop downs and things like that Yeah. Those drop downs can be linked into an API. So as you click it, it pulls back the data from another system, and it's available there. So you can imagine the benefits of that, obviously speed, no human error, and stuff like that.
So that's type type of thing. But on they're like they're they're they're what's called APIs. You also have things like, connecting to databases. So again, one of the things we do at Radar is we open up a database connection so people can connect their BI platform in. So that's for form of integration.
And then some systems don't have limited functionality, so we can do things like CSV and XML imports. So they're basically a flat file. So you can imagine a flat file being being presented, and the system can essentially read that, transform it into what it needs, and import that into the the the new system or the other system.
Okay. So you've mentioned a few benefits there. What would you identify as the key benefits of integrating systems to health and social care organizations?
Yeah. I'd I'd say there's probably three main reasons. I sort of touched on there. So, reduced risk. So with the best one in the world, you know, humans have been putting this data. So if you've got multiple systems where they have to repeat a job over and over again, so it could be like they have 2 systems, 3 systems, an event happens, have to type it one system, and then they have to almost, like, copy and paste it and stick into the next.
Yep.
Can imagine, you know, you could put the wrong date in. You could put the wrong user ID in and things like this. It could could cause a lot of issues. If those systems are connected, you only have to fill it in once and it's passed over. And obviously that leads me on to efficiency.
Again, people aren't essentially wasting time copy and paste and moving data from one to another, and improves data integrity. So if there's less errors in the data, you can imagine what your your Mi is gonna be more more powerful, less less full of errors and things like that. One of the things, obviously, we do at Radar with the projects team is always look at, ways we can, make this type of thing easier for our clients and make things better, as we're onboarding them. That's sort of obviously what the your projects teams do.
Okay. So we quite often hear feedback about systems not talking to each other. It's definitely something that was mentioned at a recent roundtable. Why do you think the industry still faces challenges like this?
I do you know what? I don't I don't think we should be too too hard on ourselves with with this type of thing because there is there is no standardization. Companies have tried to do standardization, but the the thing is is whoever stand puts a standard out, they're gonna be able to monopolize the area. Yeah. And they'll see if there's gonna be company b that goes, well, hang on. We'll no. We we say this is the standard and company c is gonna come on. No. No. This is the standard.
You'll have to look at, you know, how we view things on the web. It wasn't so long ago where Microsoft had the monopoly on how you viewed things on the Internet with browsers. Yep. Like, there's meant to be a standard on how you develop websites and stuff like that, and how they're presented and all these type of things and the technologies you use. But Microsoft had the monopoly and obviously they got their wrist slapped and then had to open it up.
So will we ever get there? I don't know is is the answer. But think things that can sort of have impacts on are obviously regulations. So, obviously, they're they're ever changing and they're ever improving and developing. But also you've got things like, you know, government government policies and regulations and things like that.
These companies go away and invest in, like, this is the standard way to do it. And and you government can come in and go, right, rip that off. You're not doing it that way. It's this way. And you've got to think that company's just invested in in to do it this way. Yeah. And now it's changed to do that. So it's it's constantly it's a moving target essentially. Another thing would be the way companies go about buying software. So often companies, especially larger companies, act in silos.
So you have the head of this and manager of this, and they all go off and buy they all got their own budget. They all go off and buy their own software. And at some point, all that software has got to talk to each other, and it's often overlooked. And it's like, these two systems can't talk to each other. We're gonna have to, gonna have to invest in some, some middleware or, bespoke developments in the middle.
And then there's an ounce of cost. Bespoke developments is not cheap. So getting that in, cost comes into it as well. So people go, oh, it's not really worth it. We'll just carry on doing the way we've always done it. That's how we think. But that's it. That's it.
Okay. So what would you suggest to a healthcare team that are trying to get their supply to their supply systems to talk to each other? Are there a list of questions they should be asking? What they should what should they look out for?
Yeah. I think probably the main one is the source of truth. And even before they look at integrating with a no external system, there needs to be a source of truth. So if you're looking at, user data, for example, or even patient records, if they've got multiple systems all stored in the same thing, which one are you gonna integrate with and which one is the which one is the source of truth? So if you give the example before of, these company and silos, you could go into a company and go, right, which ones, which software am I integrating with?
What's the source of truth? All the departments will go, yep. That's me. And they could be off, especially if you've got that human on it, human error elements in there as well. Yeah. Where they're not connected. You could could run into issues there. Also just just defining the goal. So a lot of companies just sort of go through the process of we've got to do an integration with X and everyone's sort of running along like lemons going, yeah. We've got it.
We've got to do this. Don't know why we're doing it. We've got to do it. And there's no thought gone into it. No planning gone into it. So it's often you know, you've got a hard hard deadline often with these things. And a lot of these things are left right to the end. So planning would be a a good one, you know, getting a resource involved. Technical resource is another one. For some reason, that during these processes, the technical conversations are had are had right at the end Yeah.
When it should be the investigation of that should be towards the beginning, to make sure, you know, 1, you cannot integrate with it, and 2, you actually have got the internal resource to do so. And, obviously, security being a big thing in me to all your security requirements, which leads yeah. So security is a big one. Obviously, do your due diligence on on the company that you're connecting to. Does the software provide a good way of securing the authentication, things like that doesn't meet the needs?
Do you have have to get extra resource to do the security checks? Maybe a pen test. And data residency is another one. So especially in healthcare, there's no point you integrating with a system where the data is outside the UK. It's obviously you you can't do that. So making sure, all all those things are in order.
Brilliant. Tell me a little bit about the integration work we do at Radar Healthcare.
Yeah. So we have I'm gonna refer to my list on this one because there's a fair few. So we've got things like these are for patient records, so this is pulling data into the system. So we've got, like, epic, Cerna, h l seven, fire, abilis, civica, and some more. And this is allows us to do those if you've got forms, look up data, again, improving validation and data import and things like that.
Of mentioned the BI platforms, they can connect in SQL Server, and we've got the flat files for those systems that are limited on functionality. So if they haven't got APIs and things like that, we can use XML and CSV. But what's coming in what's coming in the future, is and we're we're investing heavily in this with recruitment for this as well. What we've recruited, we've actually built a team for it, is the radar standard APIs.
Okay.
And this will allow things like companies to come along and connect with their user data, but also quite powerfully connecting to an event. So they have to be able to trigger an event inside radar from another system. So if you can imagine something so simple as filling a form out, how that could become more powerful. So you could have your patient record and you fill a form out, say, someone's had a trip or a fall, and that gets recorded as an event. That triggers into radar.
Radar then triggers a workflow off the back of that. So the steps that need to be done from that event, but then all that also pulls back into the our powerful analytics tool. And you can start to look at things and predict what why that happened and how can you stop it happening again. That's where it gets really powerful and cool. So someone just a simple act of filling a form in for a normal event, which they do every day, triggering another system through an API, that's when it can it can start getting really, really powerful when you're using the system just like like ours.
Okay. So you've given loads of great advice. To summarize for our listeners, what would be your top three tips for successful integration?
Top 3. Top 3. I would say the technical conversations. Again, getting these technical conversations on Okay. At the beginning, rather than towards the end. If you can picture a IT department, I'm IT, so I can see this, not always the happiest chappies in the world. They get a someone lands on a desk, you know, you've got to finish this by in 4 weeks. Yeah. And it's like, what's this? What's that?
And no one knows the answers to any of these technical questions. Quite rightly, these security issues. And then plus, they're not on board. Someone just land on a desk and that they, you know, it's not on board. So getting these conversations in well in advance with these APIs and these integrations is is is a key factor, I would say.
So just getting the technical people all towards the the beginning of the procurement stage. Number 2, what would number 2 be? Procrastination. So this comes from we've spoke about this a few times.
We have.
This comes from previous examples. So when people have integrated with those systems or bought a new piece of software, it's always painful, because there's, you know, all the factors we spoke about, lack of planning, resource, cost, and all this type of stuff. It's always painful. So when another one lands on their desk and say, well, you've got to integrate with this sort of system, people are gonna go, oh, I'm do you know what? Who's gonna put that off till next week, next month, and stuff like that?
And then before you know it, there's a hard deadline in a month's time, and everyone has to rush that round. And, obviously, as we've alluded to, planning is key with these things. Yeah. So if you've procrastinated, what's the term? Eat the frog.
So pick the hardest thing to do. Do that first, get it properly planned, and it should. There's no reason why these things just can't go live and they just they just breeze through, like, quite quite simply. But when the the problems come with lack of plan Yeah. And I suppose the final one is tested again because things get rushed. It does hard deadlines and things like this. Testing is always something that is sort of afterthought.
Everyone hates testing.
Yeah. I mean, look, this is why obviously we've got a testing team to allow that, you know, what it's, it's always overlooked with, in in these projects and it's always rushed through. What's the minimum amount we can do to get it live? And it's like, you're just gonna create problems for yourself. So it could be you might get look lucky and find those edits on go live date.
But if you're not lucky, you could be finding these 6 months down the line when all the data is completely incorrect, and it's gotta come back and bite you in the proverbial. So yeah. So let's say technical, procrastination, and testing are my top three tips.
Perfect. Thank you. At the end of each episode, we ask our guests to describe their what health tech moment. This question is a bit of fun. We want to hear your weird and wonderful stories that you've experienced in the health and social care industry. Or if you haven't got anything weird and wonderful, something that's made a real impact on you, a life changing moment. What's your experience?
Yeah. I'd say I this my response encompasses all of those things in one. And I could probably blame blame Simon or head of sales for this one if you're listening to Simon. So we went to, and then in NHS Trust for a meeting, which I presumed 4 or 5 people sitting on a table. Yeah.
Walked in. There's about 40, 50 people there. And I went, oh, you're up on stage and here's your microphone. I was like, what the hell is going on here? So, yeah, I'd say that was my, what what the what the health care moment was that.
Definitely put you on the spot.
It certainly did. It certainly did. Yeah.
Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you. Thanks again for joining us this week, and thanks to you all for listening. Next week, we're going to hear from Rebecca and Lauren, digital PR experts who work with health and social care sectors across the UK to help them manage their reputation, raise their profile, and promote themselves to new patients or residents.
Don't forget to rate and subscribe wherever you get your podcast from. And if you have any questions for us or our guests, please email what the health tech atradarhealthcare.com.