To market yourself, you need visual content. Because humans and consumers are visual creatures. They are shopping, whether it's online, whether it's in person, they're shopping with their eyes and they are looking at you and your presence in your story and your vibe and your personality. So you need visual content that is accurate, that is absolutely on brand for you, that tells your story, shows you and shows your vibe and attracts your ideal clients to you.
I'm Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger, and you're listening to the Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level. If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you love, then you're in the right place.
Let's get going with today's episode. Today I'm chatting with Gillian Devine, the photography success mentor. Having worked as a photographer for 14 years, she now works with female brand photographers to help them grow a successful business. I've been a guest expert for her student on a few occasions, so I thought it was about time to turn the tables and let you learn from her. Gillian, welcome to the podcast. Hi Becca, how are you? Brilliant.
I'm so thrilled to have you on the podcast and for me to be asking you the questions today because normally it's the other other way around. I'm doing the presentation for your members. They're asking me the questions. But today the tables have turned and I'm going to dig into your story a little bit. Sounds good to me. We had an ace time when you came and spoke with my members in my mentorship program, so I was so, so thrilled to be invited onto your podcast. Thank you very much.
Getting excited about just chatting to you now. Whenever I have a guest on my podcast, especially someone that maybe my audience haven't come across before, I always like to go back because I think it's important before we give tips and advice that people understand where we came from or where my guests came from. So take us back to the beginning of your journey. How did you end up in the world of photography in the first place? Oh my gosh. I am a photographer because I married the wrong man.
Basically I moved into photography when my first husband got a sound like Liz Elizabeth Taylor when I say first husband. I haven't had that many, but my first husband's dad was the most amazing photographer and I started going on the weddings, with him, assisting him on portraiture sessions. And I just started there and that was actually 20 years ago. I can't believe it. But yeah, so that is the beginning of my journey. I am here because I married the wrong man and got to learn from his father.
Wow, okay, great starting point already. I love that. And we were just talking before we hit record about your amazing surname and how you also kept the surname and not the husband. So you kept the career, you've kept the surname. But we got rid of the husband along the way. So we can talk about that more in a little while. But when you started out in photography then were you just second shooting? Were you just helping him out? At what point did you start going out on your own? Yeah, it was.
So I was second shooting. I was, I was already full in full time work. I was actually in marketing and sales. I worked for Focus diy, would you believe Jacob's cream crackers, would you believe? And a wedding dress designer. So. So I had my job, I had my career. But Vincent Devine was such an amazing photographer, such an amazing man. So yeah, I was second shooting for him. I was a girly girl. So I really wanted to go on the weddings with him, fluff the veil, carry his equipment.
Then he started letting me do it, a little bit of second shooting, just using a spare camera of his. And he invited me to go on and assist other photographers he knew on their weddings. And then I started just doing a bit of help in his portraiture sessions and it went from there and it really ignited the passion in me. I'm not someone that thought about photography. When I was a little girl, a teenager, a young adult, it was later in life for me.
So yeah, it was, it was beautiful to have that passion ignited. And then obviously I bought my own kit, went and had some training, got some qualifications and it all went from there. Vincent was super, super supportive and then after a couple of years he was wanting to retire and he invited to take over the business, which I was thrilled to do. Wow. I didn't realize that part of the story. So you actually took over his business and took it in your own direction.
So at that time were you doing different types of photography? Were you doing weddings and babies and brand or were you starting to specialize? No, I was absolutely doing weddings. Vincent was primarily weddings. So I moved into weddings. I loved my weddings. So that's the first genre I worked in. I then expanded. I was doing families and babies and pets, a little bit of events. I then specialized down to Newborns.
I was a newborn specialist for quite a while and now I've pivoted into brand photography and I did brand alongside my newborns for quite a while and then I decided to specialize in the brand. The brand just ticks all my boxes. So yeah, I'm now a specialist brand photographer. So what is it that you love then about being a brand photographer? Because you've obviously kind of gone on this journey and you've gone through different iterations. Some people love weddings, some people love babies.
You've obviously landed on brand photography. What is it that lights you up about that? Why do you enjoy doing it? Oh my gosh. I've got a list as long as my arm. Becca. Okay, so from the point of view of a business owner photographer, you know, it's sometimes hard, isn't it? We work all the hours, especially in my weddings. In my family shoots, I was working at weekends with my newborns and weddings, I was editing late into the night.
So I have found that brand photography has given me much better work life balance because brand photography for me it's a three, three hour shoot, it's midweek and it's also highly profitable and it's a light edit. So instead of working at the weekends like I did in the weddings, like I did in the families, instead of editing late into the night, I'm now doing a midweek three hour shoot. And it's also highly profitable. You know, it's for me, it's £1,895 for a three hour midweek shoot.
It's a very light edit. So it's not hours and hours, days and days of editing like it might have been with weddings or newborns or babies, etc. It's a very light edit. It's done and dusted in two to three hours or I can outsource it. I also find that brand photography gives me a lot of creativity because every brand, every business, every entrepreneur, business owner that I work with is completely different.
They have a different vibe, a different style, a different story to tell, different needs and requirements for their images. So it really is a great genre to be in for the creativity. As I said, super profitable. Most of the the deliverables in a brand shoot are digital. So I haven't got to order wall art, I haven't got to order a book or an album.
It's also quite, I say it's f free because, and I'm not someone that likes bath because with brand photography you get the client design the shoes, go out and do the shoes It's a three hour midweek shoot, deliver the digital gallery and then I'm not caught up in the faff of online galleries, in person sales, trying to push people to choose their images. For me, the next step is taking that person, that business owner, onto their next shoes.
Because business owners need recurring visual imagery for their marketing. And that's the other beautiful thing about brand photography. One of the things that I love. It's recurring shoots with regular clients that you really get to know, get to know their vibe, their energy, their brand. And it's so joyful when you're working with a bit business owner on a regular basis like and as well as being good for the business, it's good for the soul.
I love the fat free idea as well because I was just having this little giggle to myself as you were talking. I'd never really contemplated the fact that brand photography was faff free because of the fact that you don't have an album. And then I was imagining to myself when I have my brand shoots or one of your clients coming to you and saying, could you make an album of all of these photos of me? That would be so weird. It would be so weird. And you're right, it is so easy. If someone does.
If I have a brand shoot, they literally just send me all the photos. I wouldn't dream, dream of having them blown up and put on my wall. I wouldn't dream of an album. And I definitely don't want to pick the best ones. I just want to get them all and then use them in my content. So yeah, I did have a little giggle to myself as you were talking about that. Just at the thought of me ordering an album of all of the photos just of myself, that would be very, very strange.
Now you've done a lot over your career. You've, you've done a lot of different things. You've changed along the way, you've moved on and we'll get on to some of your business stuff in a minute. But in the photography part of your career, when you look back, are there some mistakes that you remember making along the way that you would encourage others maybe not to do the same? Yeah, Defin differently. I think trying to spread myself too thinly has not worked for me.
And as much as I've loved all the different genres I've worked in, specializing down to brand or just having one or two that I work in rather than trying to do everything and be everything to everyone because that really sucks the joy, it sucks the soul. And it's Difficult. Most of us are one man bands, so it is difficult to try and work in all the different genres and try and market yourself as doing all the different genres. So that's, that's definitely a mistake in my mind to avoid.
And then the other thing is not having boundaries. I think that's a mindset thing. Working on your mindset, working on standing up for your boundaries, whether they're time boundaries, whether they're financial boundaries. So charging your worth, definitely standing up for your boundaries and stepping up as the CEO of a business rather than going down the route of not protecting your boundaries and ending up running a hobby or a charity that you're putting all your hours, all your energy into.
And it's not making you the money that you need and want and deserve from your beautiful craft. Having those boundaries. So you do step up as the CEO and protect yourself, give the best you can, deliver amazing service and images to your clients, but actually protect your boundaries as a business owner and make the money you need and want and deserve. Absolutely. It's interesting because actually my word for 2025 is boundaries.
So you know, when people come up with their word and it's like thrive and accelerate and all of these big things, for me this year it is about better boundaries, bigger boundaries, changing my boundaries. So I love it. I think it's really important for all of us to do and I think it's something that evol and change over time.
And as we grow our businesses and our businesses change direction, sometimes we realize we need to make those boundaries different or stronger or bigger because of the change of circumstance. So I think it's something we always need to revisit however long we've been in our businesses. Now, we also talked and. Oh, sorry, go for it. No, that's okay. Absolutely. I'm so, so thrilled to hear that's one of your words. Because I think as business owners, obviously I work a lot with photographers.
In my brand photography business, I work with business owners. But all business owners, we are kind, heart centered, lovely people. We want to deliver the best to our clients. And that sometimes can mean that we do not protect our boundaries. We over deliver, we over give to the detriment of ourselves. And yeah, I'm loving the fact that that is your word of the year. That's wonderful because that doesn't mean you can't deliver amazing stuff for your clients.
It just means that you are protecting yourself and your own boundaries. Yeah, absolutely. Now, we referred at the beginning of this conversation to your first husband and we need to Finish a little bit of the story. So clearly there's been some changes in your life over the years and in your business. I believe you may have even moved country. So how have all of these different things impacted on your business? Because sometimes life and business, we can't help but separate them.
They do have an impact on each other. Absolutely. So going through a divorce was awful. Obviously. Motivation, confidence on the floor. Definitely my business was negatively affected through that time. But, you know, I bounce back. We all go through personal ups and downs. We all go through difficult times, don't we? That's. There's nothing special about me. We all go through that.
And for me, it's making sure you bounce back and do whatever you can to regain your spark, regain your confidence, regain your motivation, which I did. I. I definitely found my business suffered for a while, but then I did bounce back. I invested in a mentor, I made sure I was doing some passion projects, I made sure I was operating in my business in the areas that bring me joy that I'm good at as well as made me money. So, yeah, the ups and downs of the personal life moving, obviously.
Meeting my gorgeous new husband, Lee. He's amazing. So, so supportive. I did keep the name Divine for my business because it was already well known and it's a lovely name, but I'm now Mrs. Thomas in my personal life. And then we decided to move to Spain. Yeah, that was a big change for us, but very, very exciting and one I would always encourage others to contemplate if it's something that they're dreaming of.
Don't ever be afraid as a business owner that if you move area, geographical area, even if it's up and down the country or a different country. Don't ever be afraid that you can't take your business with you and run your business. You can, you can absolutely do it. I did. So when we were making those plans, I made it my business to start researching how am I going to move my business over Spain. Who will my client be in in that area?
And before we even moved over here, I was making contacts with local businesses, I was forming relationships, making contacts, getting involved in networking groups. So before I even moved over here, my name was known in the area and I'd already had quite a few brand photography clients over here that had flown over to do their shoots for before we even made the move. So, yeah, it's just planning ahead and making your dreams come true, taking action towards them. Fantastic.
I think it's really important we talk about this stuff as well. Because I think there will be people listening that maybe are in the middle of the difficult time and it can feel like this is never going to get better, I need to just quit everything. Or we can put a lot of guilt on ourselves and think, oh, my business is suffering and we feel really bad about it.
But as you said, life happens sometimes and sometimes we've got to give ourselves a little bit of grace and realize, yeah, maybe the business will suffer for a year, six months, two years, or maybe it needs to suffer to give yourself some personal time. But that doesn't mean that you can't come back to it, you can't start again, you can't revamp and refresh. So thank you for sharing that because I think it's really helpful and I know that will reach a few people. Absolutely. I completely agree.
Sometimes you have got to just give yourself that time and you do what you need to do to survive. I mean, when I came out of the divorce because my business was negatively affected, my income was negatively affected, I took a couple of part time jobs. I'm not ashamed to admit that I was a part time receptionist in a hairdresser salon which was ace because I'm super, super girly and I loved the people interact.
I also did a little bit of clean, easy door to door sales, which I hated every second of. That was not my bag. But you have to do what you've got to do to survive those down times and just crack on. And it actually gave me space to think about, okay, where do I want to take my photography business? And it actually gave me the kick up the bum to do it.
Because while I was trying to do clean, easy rounds and hating every second of it, thinking to myself, I've got photography skills, what am I doing this for? So it did, it gave me the kick up the bump to then push further forward with my photography business. I'd love to go back and tell the clean, easy version of you that you're now living in Spain running this successful business because you probably wouldn't have ever believed that that was possible at that time. Absolutely.
I'd have never believed you. I am living proof that you can make your dreams come true. Because I would never have believed you. I remember back in Covid, remember we had that beautiful weather and I was actually, I was living in a little tiny apartment back then with no garden but that beautiful weather. I used to take my deck chair, go and sit in the car park, close my eyes and imagine I was in Spain. I called it Costa del Car Parchio, love that. And now here you are in Spain.
So you've got your brand photography. We've talked a lot about how you've grown that side of your business. At what point did you start thinking, actually, I could help other people with this as well? So what was your motivation about that side of your business, about starting to help other. Other people in their brand photography journey? So that was way back before I moved to Spain.
After having gone through the split and the difficult time, one of the big actions I took to bounce back was I invested in a mentor. He was amazing. He really helped me as I had an absolute heart attack handing over that little, that last bit of money I had. And it wasn't, wasn't a small amount of money, it was £6,000. But I was, was desperate because I needed to make my photography business work and I was inspired by what he was talking about I could achieve. So I went for it.
I felt sick handing over the money, but I did it and I actually made that money back within five weeks just by following what he told me to do. So then on that mentorship journey, I was, I was one of the people in the group. A little bit like a goody two shoes. I did everything he told me to do. I was like teacher's pet because I couldn't afford to lose that money. So I, I was actually one of the high flyers in the group. And my business just went from success to success to success.
And until I was running the business of my dreams, making the money I wanted, getting the joy out of it, it was wonderful. And at the time when he then decided to close his mentorship group, a lot of the members actually went into complete panic and they turned to me for help and support. And a lot of them had already been helping and supporting, giving them advice and guidance on the things that were working for me. So it felt like a really natural progression.
And with his blessing, I then went on to start my own mentorship business and it went from there. I've loved every second of helping other photographers and my strap line is now be a Rich Talk. So a tog, short for photographer. I'm rich in terms of happiness and life and contentment and confidence, as well as richness in business and finance and making the money from your craft. So, yeah, that's what I want to do. I'm on a mission to create Rich Talk.
It was definitely a natural step for you as well, then. If it was already what you were doing, if people were already coming to you, I think sometimes that does happen to us. That's how I ended up doing what I'm doing is because I was running a networking thing and I was telling people I have my videography business, but people are asking me about their marketing and asking me about their business and you suddenly realize, oh, actually, maybe I can give.
And I think when we start our businesses or start a part of our businesses from that place of giving and that heartfelt place of wanting to succeed, absolutely leads to more success, not only for our clients clients, but obviously for ourselves as well. So I love that part of your journey. I'm learning so many things that I didn't know about how you've got to, where you've got to. I didn't know that you'd taken over a group or started your new group after your own mentor stepped down as well.
So it's absolutely fascinating. Now, a little bit earlier, we talked about what lights you up about brand photography and why you love that part of it. And already when you were talking about it, I was getting a little bit excited because I personally love brand photo shoots. I've used them in my own business. I think they're really powerful.
But sometimes when I talk to my clients about them, the florists, the cake makers, the DJs, the celebrants, they feel a bit icky about it and they're not sure why they would want photos of themselves. And they may be laughing at my joke about having a whole album of photos of themselves and they think, oh, isn't it a bit, you know, a little bit stuck up to get loads of photos of myself?
So tell people out there listening why they need to change that mindset around brand photography and why you think it is actually a powerful resource in their business. Okay, so whatever your business is, whether you are a florist, wedding dress designer, photographer, an accountant, a yoga instructor, whatever business you are running to get clients to sell your services, you need to market yourself. To market yourself, you need visual content. Because humans and consumers are visual creatures.
They are shopping, whether it's online, whether it's in person. They're shopping with their eyes and they are looking at you and your presence and your story and your vibe and your personality. So you need visual content that is accurate, that is absolutely on brand for you, that tells your story, shows you and shows your vibe and attracts your ideal clients to you.
If someone was trying to sell you something, Becca, with a bag on their head, you wouldn't buy off them because you wouldn't trust them. You think, I can't even see the whites of your eyes. People do buy from people. So showcasing brand visual content that showcases you your personality, your vibe, but also shows you interacting with clients, shows your product, shows your service, shows your personal life as well as your business life. We have to take our consumers.
Whatever your business is, your consumers need to go down that journey of knowing you, liking you and trusting you before they'll part with their hard earned cash to buy from you and to take them down that journey. A big chunk of that is them absorbing your visual content to get to know, like and trust you. So true. And quite often I'll come across a wedding business owner on Instagram or something like that and I'll have a look at their work and I'll love it.
And I'll scroll down their grid a little bit because I kind of want to know who is the person behind this business. And so often I will scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and never see anything. And there's no way of me knowing who are you? What makes you different to any of the other people offering the same service? Do you look like someone I might like, get on with? You know, there's nothing there and it does feel empty.
But I think the thing that sometimes holds people back is their own self confidence. Worrying about how they look, thinking they need to lose weight before they have their shoot, worrying about what to wear, worrying they'll look silly on the camera. So as a photographer yourself, how do you make your clients feel more comfortable and how can we stop worrying about some of those little things? Things? Absolutely.
There's lots of genuine worries there that we all have, even those photographers have. When I book my brand shoot and my photographers coming over to shoot me, I'm worried about, oh, do we need to lose a few pounds? What am I going to wear? So the genuine worries, first off, I always start by talking to my clients and saying, look, you have a beautiful service talent. Whatever your businesses, you have impact to have in the world.
And the fact that you don't like your arms, bottom, legs, chin, nose, whatever. The thing is that we don't like about ourselves because there's always things that should not hold you back from serving your clients. Your clients don't care about your arms, bottom, nose, chin, whatever it is. So don't let that hold you back. Your, your magic, your sparkle needs to shine to attract your ideal clients to you.
So I try and do a little bit of mindset work with my clients, to be honest, to get them in that, that state of mind where they're thinking, yes, I have impact to have in the world. I shouldn't be holding myself back. But then it is also my job as their brand photographer to make sure I'm helping them choose the right outfits to help pose them, to make them feel super confident, to make the whole experience really, really fun and relaxed so that it's not them feeling awkward and difficult.
And it's all about, you know, them feeling difficult in front of the lens because that is not going to create a beautiful gallery of images that they love. So it's definitely my job as a brand photographer to do all of those things. If there are people listening and thinking, okay, I understand, I think I need to do this, I need to get some photos myself. But I don't know even know where to start looking to find the right brand photographer. I mean, obviously not all people are created equal.
If you've got any tips for how people can find the right person, the sort of thing they should be looking for, how they should be making those kind of decisions, I would definitely bite. The bullet and have some calls with brand photographers. Because choosing your brand photographer, it's going to be a really key relationship. You do want someone that you feel understands you, your business gets you, gets where you're trying to take your business and you vibe with.
You're not going to feel comfortable and confident with someone if you, if you don't really, it's like choosing a friend, almost a business buddy. So having a video call with a couple of different brand photographers to see if you connect with them, if you get them, if you, you have that really good feeling about them, obviously looking at their work to see that you're happy with their work, that their style suits what you're trying to do with your visual content.
And also I think something to bear in mind is your brand photographer is not just going to be your brand photographer. They're actually going to be a little bit of a mini business buddy, a business mentor. I know the brand photographers that I mentor and train, they're not just providing a gallery of images for their clients. They actually provide a lot of clear business and marketing guidance and advice.
A lot of their clients, just the way a lot of my, my brand photography clients come out of the experiences with me saying things like, I feel so much more confident now in my marketing. I feel so much clearer on how to market myself. My brand photography clients as well as the photographers that I mentor, we provide to our business owner clients things like marketing hacks, checklists and sheets and guidance. We give content creation Services and guidance.
I give my clients a lot of help with regards to what marketing content to put out there and what marketing is going to work for them. So it's not just a gallery of brand images, it's a hand, back hand, you know, hand holding exercise where we're almost going to be your mini marketing mentor. I think when you look at brand photography, sometimes it can be a bit bland and sometimes you just think that is perfect.
And I know even in my own business, when I look back at some of my early years ago brand photos, I'm kind of stood there very formally with my cup of tea and I look back at them, I think that's not really me. Whereas then a little bit later down the line when I felt a bit more confident and had different photographers, you know, I started having photos on the carousel, which is much more me and much more fun and much more my personality.
So how do you think as business owners we can inject that personality into our brand photo shoots? How do we take the idea of having a shoe and think, right, right. Because creatively I'm always like, I don't know what I should do to bring more Becca into this shoot. So any tips for us? Definitely think about what, what things do you love to do? Again, your chosen brand photographer will guide you through this process. We'll really get to know you and make some great suggestions.
But from a business owner point of view, think about what would you like people to know about you and never go fall down the trap of thinking, well, I'm a bit boring. Nobody really, you know, there's nothing exciting about me me. There's no stories to tell. People buy from people. Even if it's something as simple as you're a dog lover, you love walking your dogs on the beach. That should definitely be part of your shoes.
Because if you're a dog lover, you can bet your bottom dollar your ideal clients will probably be dog lovers too. So to see you walking the dog on the beach, enjoying that moment, if you're a makeup free girl, then be makeup free on your shoot. Don't try and be something you're not. Try and choose a brand photographer. This is what I was saying about that you feel comfortable enough with to just be yourself and do the things you love and inject your passion into those images.
I love it when I ask my brand photography clients to bring a client into the shoot. And I always say, for instance, working with Dion, a yoga instructor, I've just done her second shoot with her, I always say bring in some of your favorite clients to be a part of the shoot and then you'll vibe with them and bounce with them. And I can see that the sparks in the relationship you have with your clients and I can see the joy and the smiles that that brings you.
And then those images are going to inspire people that are thinking about booking a yoga yoga session. They'll see the genuine reactions and connections you've got with your clients and they'll want to book you over anyone else because they can see that we're bringing it to life in visual content. Love it. Now, this is a bit of a million dollar question, but what I want to know is in an ideal world, as a business owner, maybe you can answer what you do yourself.
How frequently should refreshing our brand images, how often should we be having new shoots? At the minimum, once a year. I mean, a lot of my annual clients, they're having a shoot every quarter. Because what we have to remember is, particularly online, the world moves quickly. We're being subjected to and absorbing such a lot of visual content that if you end up using the same image time and time again, people are going to get blind to it.
It's things like profile images on your social media that should be changed every month. Your posts, your reels with all the regular fresh visual content. Again, a lot of the brand photographers that I train, they'll do video content for you as well as still imagery, but that does need to be refreshed on a regular basis. So think about you as a business owner. Do you. Are you running a business where it's seasonal, like floristry? Do you have various seasons? So we need to capture those.
Do you have, if you're a wedding dress designer, for instance, I know Caroline Castelliano who I used to work, worked for. She would have a collection every year. So is yearly going to be enough for you or would you like to showcase some winter weddings and some summer weddings or some spring weddings?
So it very much can depend on your business, but at the very, very least, I'd say once a year, because we change as individuals as our business changes and we want our consumers to not get bored with our visual content. So really refreshing it in that way. And also can I tell a quick story, Becca, about the power of brand photography? This is a story of. It's actually me. I was the consumer.
I had £100 to spend on some flowers and this was going to be a flower display that I was going to use in a brand photography shoot. The shoot was with actually a mindset coach. But we wanted some flowers in the background. So I'm now shopping. I've come over to Spain. I'm new to the area, I don't know any florists. So I'm shopping for a florist. Florist with a budget of 100 quid.
Had a couple of recommends, looked at florist number one on Instagram, and I can see beautiful flowers, beautiful flowers, beautiful flowers, beautiful flowers. Why wouldn't I choose that florist? I thought, I'll just go and have a look at the second place that was recommended to me. Now, on this second florist, she had clearly had a brown shoot, because now I can not only see beautiful flowers, beautiful flowers, but I can see the. I could see the florist, Fiona.
I can see her in a florist shop. I can see her interacting with clients, the joy it's bringing her. I can see her in the flower market in the morning picking the blooms. I can see her outside putting the displays together. I actually saw images of her walking her dogs on the beach and that's what drew me to spend my money with her because I felt like I got to know her. Oh, she's a dog owner. She loves her flower street. Oh, look at her in the flower market. Look at her interacting with clients.
So that is the power of having a brand shoot. I had a budget of 100 quid and I spelled spent it with Fiona purely because she had had a beautiful brand shoot and it was showcasing her, her vibe, her personality. And it drew me in as a client. Also makes it so much more memorable as well. I always think if you see lots of pictures of flowers, you can forget which business was which. But when you start seeing the faces, we're much more likely to remember it.
And especially when people are turning up not only in their brand photos, but on the reels and on the lives, and you start to see the same face over and over again. That's when you remember that person. Whereas other. It's like, which of the many people that I looked at who all had flowers that look kind of the same, was it that I liked the best? It's definitely, definitely true. Now, we talked a lot about brand photography and why we think it's important.
I want to go back briefly to the business side of things because you do work with a lot of business owners, you work with a lot of photographers, and we talked earlier about mistakes you made in your business. Are there any common mistakes? You see that when clients come to you, when photographers come to you, that they're making in their business. So I would say photographers in the main, a lot of the time, they're lacking confidence.
So it's not necessarily a mistake, but it's a lacking confidence in being visible, in putting themselves out there. A lot of the photographers that come to me are maybe wedding photographers or maybe baby photographers. They've not yet dabbled in brand, so they are. They haven't actually been marketing themselves and visibly showing themselves and their vibe and their personality.
So I would say that's definitely a great change to make to all businesses having that confidence to show up, to show yourself, to shine a light on you and your face. Denise Duffield Thomas, I love her. If you've not read her book, it's amazing. Get rich, lucky bitch. But she would say your face is your fortune. And that ties into all business ownership.
Owners, we all need to have the balls, the confidence to stand up and show our face and really attract our ideal clients to us by standing up for who we are and the magic and the spark that we've got. So, yeah, that's definitely not necessarily a mistake, but some something to strive for. Yeah, and it is kind of a mistake because I think the mistake is we think we can succeed without being visible or we think we can succeed without putting our face out there.
But actually if no one knows we exist, then we're not actually going to sell anything. And we need to get past that block of and realize the more people that know we exist and the more we put ourselves out there, the more likely it is that work is going to come in and that if we're confident, that shines out as well to our clients and they're more likely to want to go ahead and work with us. Now, obviously, marketing is my main thing, so marketing is what I talk about a lot.
And so one of the things I've been trying to do recently with my guests is to talk to them about right now as we record this podcast, what's working for them, marketing wise. So right now, as we're at the start of 2025, where are you finding most of your clients are coming from and what's working for you from a market perspective? Okay, so love talking marketing. This is super exciting. So for me, from a marketing perspective, it's always important to have what I call multiple marketing pillars.
If you imagine the roof of your business, if you only have one marketing pillar, such as social media, you find a lot of photographers, that's a mistake they make. And a lot of business owners, they are reliant on Social media for all of their marketing. Now you imagine a roof with one pillar, it's very quickly going to fall down. So I always say you really should have multiple marketing pillars.
Pillars holding up the roof of your business not only to nurture and engage your audience, take them down that know like and trust journey, but also to drip feed your business with new leads, with new inquiries to grow your audience. So multiple marketing pillars in terms of social media could be one, networking could be another. Collaborations, strategic partnerships with businesses that are already dealing with an audience of of your ideal clients.
PR maybe email marketing lead magnet they are, that's another great marketing pillar. So definitely if you're someone that's looking great time of year to look at this year and refresh on your marketing, make sure you have these multiple marketing pillars that are nurturing and engaging your current audience or aiming to grow and bring in those new leads and inquiries.
You need to so important to have multiple streams and not all the streams will always be equal all of the time and there'll be fluctuation between where the good stuff comes from from I know email marketing is a huge part of your strategy when it comes to getting clients. Do you think most of your clients come through your email marketing or do you get more from the networking and the people you meet or is it kind of equal? I think it all works together.
I for my brand photography business networking is a very, very powerful marketing pillar. So go into the networking groups, mixing with all the business owners, starting the connection, starting the relationship, getting to know people, people buy from people, people. But then once I have met someone, I make it my business to welcome them into my world and to make sure they stay in my world. So I'll use my lead magnet to get them on my email list.
I'll make sure they're following me on socials and I'll go and follow them. I'll make sure I do what I call winking and wooing which is just engaging with them on social media in a bid to deepen the relationship, to deepen the connection. So all of the marketing pillars I think work together. Network networking, going to networking groups is brilliant for brand photographers. My lead magnet. And then obviously through to my email marketing.
Absolutely work in a treat as well because that means I'm leading with value. So I'm giving my business owner, if I meet a new business owner, I will make sure they sign up to my lead magnet which at the minute is five steps to being more visible in your business business. So it's something of value. They're getting and then they're also on my email list so I can regularly email and that email marketing can be a slow burner.
But once they're on your email list that you're regularly having that communication with them so you're keeping yourself top of mind. What's powerful about those two strategies is that you're in control pretty much of both of them. And the thing with social media, we know that they can change things, take things away, remove our accounts at any time time.
But with the two things that are working best for you, the networking and the email marketing, you're kind of in the driving seat and you hold the keys to keeping that. And so it always concerns me that more people don't pay attention to these kind of things because I think the shiny object syndrome, the oh Tick Tock's new, Instagram's new threads is new. I want to be there. I get the dopamine hit is instant response. You know, all of that thing.
Sometimes we're spending so much of our time on that that and we're actually not doing the two things that you've just talked about which can be the most powerful. Absolutely agree. Definitely. It's, it's tough because we're all slightly addicted to social media. The scroll, the having a look at the funny videos. For me it's cat and dog stuff. I'm obsessed. Obsessed. But yeah, it's really important.
I mean that's one of the great things to do as a business owner to make sure you are very strict on your time boundaries, you're not getting pulled into scrolling and you are, are making sure you spend time on your marketing. But those marketing pillars that are going to make the difference. Incredible.
Now you mentioned your free marketing lead magnet that you have and we were talking before we hit record that actually this would be quite useful to some of the people listening, particularly the photographers. So do you want to just tell us a bit more about what it is and what it includes and I'll make sure I put a link to it in the show notes as well. Absolutely.
So a couple of times a year I will run a five day free sales and marketing mini course all online and it's really, really, really good fun. It's basically over five days. I'm going to go over with you five different marketing strategies that are guaranteed to bring you in. Leads, bookings, inquiries.
So for any photographers out there that are really thinking about up in their game with regards to their sales and marketing strategies, it's a great way to come into the mini course get some guidance and actionable strategies. But also it's such a high vibe in the group. It's a great community and it's a great way to kickstart your marketing and your business strategies. We also have lots of prizes up the grabs as well. Oh, I love a prize. Anyone in my world knows that.
I love to give away a prize. It's always a motivation for me and so I like to share the love with my clients as well. And I know that you attract some really great people. As I said at the beginning, I've been in and spoken to your group now or your members particularly a couple of times and they are such lovely people. It's a lovely vibe, a lovely energy.
So if you are a photographer, particularly if you're thinking about going into brand photography or even if you just want a bit more confidence in some of these other areas, do check out that lead magnet that Jillian mentioned and I will make sure that we've got the link to it in the show notes so you can find it. It's been so much fun chatting to you as always. I could talk to you forever and ever and ever, but we do need to bring it to a close.
So I'm going to ask you the question I always end my podcast with, which is what's one thing you wish you'd known sooner in your own business? I'm going to hit you with two things if that's okay. Take the imperfect actions that are scaring you. Just frogging doing it. I always say frogging, do it. It's a little bit of a saying of mine, just frogging, do it. Just take those imperfect actions. Don't let fear and doubt and fear of judgment hold you back.
Take that imperfect action that you know is going to grow your business. And then the second thing is investing. There's nothing like investing in the experts. I very much doubt I'd be here where I am today if I hadn't of very early on invested in those business coaches and mentors. They massively help helped me grow my business to where it is. And having that cheerleader, having that helping hand from an expert, absolutely something I would recommend.
Two great pieces of advice and of course I should have expected to you to give me two rather than just one because you're always breaking the rules and breaking the boundaries. But I love it. And if someone's interested in working with you as their branding photographer, maybe they even fancy a little trip out to Spain to get some photos. Where's the best place to find you, to chat with you, to connect with you. Definitely on Facebook. It's Jillian Divine.
Just come over to my personal profile or even on Instagram at Jillian Divine Mentor. Drop me a message. I'd love to help. Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time. I hope our paths cross again very soon. Maybe you need to hold an event in Spain so I can come and speak at it and we can come and hang out and drink some sangria in person. That sounds amazing. I will see you poolside. Thank you for having me here, Becca. No problem. Great to have you as always. Thanks so much. Bye. What?
What a fantastic conversation. I just love chatting to Jillian. She's so much fun. I love her energy, I love her vibe and she's always got so many great things to share with you.
I hope that if you've listened to that and you've been holding back on your own brand photography and thinking you'll have to hide behind your visuals that you've got at the moment, please break out of that feeling, get out of your comfort zone and go book a brand shoot because people buy from people and they want to see your face. Hope you've got lots from this episode. Check out that lead magnet. And I hope to see you all next time.