Practice, practice, practice. Preparation, preparation, preparation. You can't teach somebody to be confident in front of people. But I'm Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger. And you're listening to the Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you love, then you're in the the right place. Let's get going with today's episode. Today I'm chatting with toastmaster John Heisman. Having graduated from the Professional Toastmaster Academy in London, he now helps his clients, weddings and events run smoothly.
When I first met John, I knew he was a lot of fun and he told me he is not the stereotypical toastmaster. I can't wait to find out more about his journey. John, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much, Becca. Lovely to be here. Lovely to talk to you. Thank you for that great introduction. Oh, it's an absolute pleasure. I'm really looking forward to diving into your career path and how you got into weddings. So take me back because I know you've had lots of different jobs over your lifetime.
So tell me some of the things you've done in your career that's led you to this point. Oh, okay, Good one. Yes, number one, I would say a lot of jobs, not careers, but in no particular order.
I've been a toddler, schoolboy, then trainee chef, turf accountant, worked in the bookies for a long, long time as a trainee, then a manager, branch manager, golf equipment salesman, driver, various vehicles and companies, and moved gradually at the age of 60 into toastmastering to bridge that gap between, between work and retirement. And so it's been a lot of fun. Wow, that is a varied list of things. I didn't even know you'd been a trainee chef. What happened to your chefing career?
Well, with the current weight distribution, Becca, I'm really pleased I didn't carry on with it because I might have been twice my size, but no, I managed to win a place at a prestigious college in London near where I live as a teenager and it just wasn't for me. The more you did it, the trainers were fabulous, but the pressure hours, etc that would have been coming along behind it were maybe not for me. I'm a social butterfly. Yes, you definitely are that.
Okay, so you said that it took until your 60s to decide to be A toastmaster. So talk to me about that decision. With all of those different, varied things, being a chef, working in the bookies, how on earth did you think, one day am I going to be a toastmaster? Oh, well, that's a lovely question because I tell everyone, friends and family who can be bothered to listen. It was my sister and my wife who actually gave me the little push.
So in a nutshell, in the past where you've had family trips or golf trips for the chaps or mixed events, I've always been the one where friends would say, come on John, be no different to you, Come on, Becca, you can chivy them along, you can organize that. And timings this, timings that, and you know, it's fun and games at 3 o'clock, dinner at 7, you can do this, you can do this.
And of course we Never related the two and you know, late 50s somehow we were looking at, saw a toastmaster at work somewhere and my wife said, you could do that. When I took. My sister is 88 years old, she's an older half sister, but she's my sister. To me she said, oh, well, you're like me, you're a born blooming show off, so you could do that job. And she meant that in a nice way. And the pair of them, oh, let's do some research on it. And then of course you dig deeper.
As you know, you dig deeper in any business there's more to it than just hiring a red coat and showing off. So there's far more to it. And that's how it sort of came about in my late 50s, which is probably a good thing on balance, you know. Yeah, absolutely.
And I think what's interesting about being a toastmaster is actually I think it's one of the hardest parts of the wedding industry to train for, because for a lot of us we become a wedding planner or we become a florist or a cake maker on experience. Experience. But actually to become a toastmaster you have to go through some proper official training, don't you? Tell us about that. Yes, you certainly do.
And I would give a mention to the Guild of Professional Toastmasters because I did a little bit of research and there are a number of associations and guilds who would offer training. But to give you one example, I could launch my own association and call myself the JH Guild of Toastmasters, founded in 1959. And it turns out there's some one man bands out there who will claim this. And they, of course they were born in 1959. That's when it was founded.
But the Guild, the Guild of Professional Toastmasters is been going perhaps 50 years, 1968 I think and you do a five day. I decided to do residential course but this was in London and so I went and met the guys, the training officers and so it pans out, you know, the others didn't seem quite as keen on getting back to me and anyway I met the guys twice and found out how much and what it involved.
And again in a bullet point list five day residential course in London on the fifth lunch time the new boys, it was five of us on the course for four and a half days and on the fifth lunchtime we toastmastered a lunch with the experts taking lunch and watching on. Now that's very nerve wracking whether you're 16 or 60. But then after that if you there was no pass or fail, they trained you to a standard. After that you did a sixth day where you meet up and try sound checks and microphone work.
You did a two and a half hour exam and then most nerve wracking of all, when you are out in the field getting work, you then said, right, I'm confident enough, I'm going to ask a fellow along to watch me and mark me at two different functions. Two different fellows, two different functions. If you get the boxes ticked at both of those functions then you are invited to receive the medallion and you are then a fellow of the Guild as opposed to a trainee.
So you can still go out and do the job but you are then recognized. So that's what that sparkly gong's for. In some of my photos, you know, the just shows you've done some training, you can confidently tell people you're trained. It's really impressive because you would think like you said at the beginning actually, you know, we get asked to just stand up and tell people where to go and we think that's a natural thing and it's very easy. I can't imagine what you can possibly do in five days.
It shows that there really is a. Lot to learn certainly. Oh, it's amazing Becca. You've been around that industry a long, long time even though you're only in your 20s. I wish you've been around a long time. Every different culture of wedding Masonic, Ladies nights, charity dues, prize givings, awards ceremonies, Rotary Round Table, each of them have their own niche events. I do a hell of a lot of weddings. It seems to have, seems to have niche towards me, weddings which I love.
But Saturday two days ago I did a charity ball for a local charity to me and my wife and eight friends were paid guests at the ball and I did the auction and etc as well as ushering guests around for the evening. So there's tons to it and you know, preambles. Well, we haven't got enough time but preambles, there's a pecking order as there always is, you know, when, if I was announcing the first speech, I better hope I get this right in case.
But anyway, if there was, if the vicar who'd conducted the service was invited to the reception, whilst introducing the first speech, I would say, Reverend sir, parents of the bride and bridegroom, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, pray silence for the proudest man in the room today. Father of the bride, Mr. Joe blogs.
You know, so if there were lords of the realm or you know, very important VIPs, if they wanted the recognition in the preamble, some of them would say, oh no, I'm Uncle Brian today. You know, because they're just a guest at their niece's wedding. But if they wanted the full preamble, you would, you know, you'd have to introduce Knights of the Realm or Dignity or, you know, so there's a hell of a lot to it, you know.
So we should have more respect for Toastmasters when we come across them because actually they've put in a huge amount of work and a huge amount of training to get to where they are. And also we should be looking out for that medallion because if we want to know that someone has done the training and some that separates people apart. Right, that's spot on. And I make a slight joke about it, no surprises there.
But if I'm a wedding, open day or a fair, I generally will wear a lounge suit or a combination, not the reds. And I have the big pull up banner because the reds can be intimidating for some, you know, so it's very much a 50, 50 spin. My point being I have the medallion on the table and I tell people that it's for running the London Marathon and they look at me with again with the current weight distribution and they think I said, don't worry, it's not. I'm only joking.
This shows I've done the training. And you know when they say, when you quote a price and then they say, oh well, I've spoken to George down the road and he can do it for 200, you say that's absolutely fine. You know, just make sure that George has some recognized training and qualifications. Yeah, absolutely. It sets you apart and I love that joke, that's always a good way to build rapport with people at a wedding. Yes, yes. Get them laughing, get them changing their mind.
Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about confidence because I think actually you make it sound easy, but to change career or to add this new part to your career in your late 50s, early 60s, a lot of people would think, oh, that's not possible for me. It's too late for me to learn something new. Like, how did you have the confidence to do that? And how would you encourage someone else who's maybe thinking about changing what they do? Oh, that's good. Well, number one, it's never worried me.
I've always gravitated towards people. So, you know, it's not me, it's friends, family who say, this job lends itself to you. So that's the easy bit for me. But I do fully appreciate not everyone has the same clubs in their bag. And so all it is is practice, practice, practice, preparation, preparation, preparation. You can't teach somebody to be confident in front of people.
But if you do a wedding and you talk to everybody, the parents and the bridesmaids and the this and the venue and this and that, and it goes well, you know, and then it gets mentioned to you, then it can only boost you up. You know, I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to tell an individual until I spoke to them about, you know, you can't teach confidence, can you? Yeah, so you can, you can give them a good help or a helping hand.
But, yeah, for me, it's never been an issue going, going back to the show off thing. And a very valid point is in the training, again, you're not the cabaret, but you can read the room. So I'm definitely not the cabaret. But of course, people love a great atmosphere and a little bit of humor and friendliness in the right places. So, again, I could talk to anyone who was considering. I could talk to them and see where they are in their journey, you know.
Yeah. And I think sometimes it is so much about just a little word of encouragement. You say so lovely in your story about your family encouraging you and telling you you're good at that. You know, it's so important for us to surround ourselves with people who lift us up rather than tear us down. And actually we can be an encouragement to someone else and say, you're actually really good at this. You actually could do this for a job.
And I think that you've been blessed to have those people around you which has helped you to have that confidence along the way as well. Now, let's talk about your first weddings, then, because you do the training, you do your five days and then you've got a business. Now you need to start a business, you need to get some clients. Do you remember where you got your first wedding businesses clients from? Oh, yes. How brilliant. So, right, so number one, I had a big kick start on a plate, really.
But because of knowing people in a former life, okay, I used to sell golf equipment and I used to sell it 30, 40 years ago to young men in golf shops who were then 18 or 20 years old and they were assistant professionals and they were earning nothing. Well, those guys are now the owners and chief execs at golf course hotels. I have. This is not, bully for me, this. I have four venues that include me in packages and two of those are guys I've known since they were 18, they're now 50.
And oh, yeah, you, we're going to have you as our toastmaster. I said, well, I haven't done the course yet and you don't know if I'll be. Yeah, we do. We know you from old, so that helps a hell of a lot. So, yeah, Cave Hotel. Cave Hotel near Canterbury. First one had confidence in me, no questions asked. And the chief exec's daughter is now the main coordinator. How's that? Wow. And I've been to the Cave Hotel. I came down there recently.
I went and spoke at Kent Wedfest, and it's a beautiful venue. What a great place to have as your first recommendation. But again, don't underestimate that because you've put in the work over years of being the guy that talks to everyone by being the person who's built relationships and that people remember. You know, I talk about it all the time. People buy from people, build connections. It's all about knowing the right people, putting yourself in the right room, being a good person.
And you've done that naturally over time, and that's now paid off in your business because now those people are in the right places to give you an opportunity. So that's what first made me notice you, is that people, some people, early afternoon, were half falling asleep at Birmingham. You came on and I thought, who's this? And you rejuvenated that room.
Some of them probably thought they knew it all anyway, but you rejuvenated that room because it doesn't matter what's gone before and what's following you. You were there doing your thing. And that's exactly right. The lad who is Chief exec at Cave. I won't mention his name, mind you, that's probably fairly obvious. But at 18, he moved to a strange area and he was earning possibly 25, 30 pounds a week. He used to scrounge cigarette and grips for his golf clubs off the old salesman.
But he'd realized he was keen and he just needed a bit of help and that was it, you know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it is so much is about who you know, not what you know. And we've had another thing where me and you've worked together before, where I was speaking to someone at another event that I was speaking at and they said to me, becca, do you know a toastmaster? We're desperately looking for a new toastmaster.
And we'd been talking and you'd been in my members lounge and your name popped up and that's led to some great work as well. All about that relationship that me and you had has now led to that work too. Hey, that's so true. And yeah, big up. Warbrook House Hotel and Georgina, absolutely fabulous.
And it's an ongoing thing where myself and if I'm not available, colleagues that I put into bat have done the weddings 2024, so much so that they're more than happy we've got the 2025 gig and they're putting Toastmaster back in a package. I leave because having been let down previously, they now think that the guild of professional Toastmasters, oh, these guys are reliable and steady. So excellent.
That is excellent news and I'm thrilled for you and I know that the team there are really thrilled about all you've done for them as well. Now, as I mentioned in my introduction, when we first met, you kind of described yourself to me as not the stereotypical toastmaster and I definitely agree with you. But just explain to people listening, what do you mean by that and what do you mean when you say that.
Okay, I need to be careful here, not to offend some colleagues, but in the 70s and 80s, perhaps Toastmasters had a bad press. They were ex military or ex police, nothing wrong with that. But more to the point, they would be ordering guests around and ordering the guests that they will be dining at 7:00 or 5:00 and barking orders and all a bit harsh. And a regular, regular comment I get is, oh, you were, you were talking to us, you weren't shouting to us.
So even though you have to project your voice, and I'm thinking, and so that time after time after time, I get guests of all ages saying, oh, how fantastic. You know, you let us know we hardly saw you, but you popped up and you let us know where we go and what we're doing. And I haven't missed the speeches or I haven't missed this, you know, and so little things like that. But I'm not stereotypical in as much as I just.
I just love people and make sure they have the day that they're dreaming of having been a quivering wreck two hours before. When she's walking down the aisle at 3:00, she's looking at me and saying, oh, thanks, John. And, oh, are we gonna do this? I said, don't worry, you got 15 minutes. And then we're going through for that. We're bang on time. And you just go and mingle and enjoy yourself. It's not difficult in a people skills way, but on their day, it's everything and more.
Yeah, and that's something that comes naturally to you. You are personable. You are good at making people feel relaxed. You're good at making people laugh or smile or, you know, you make jokes at your own, you know, the expense of yourself sometimes. But it makes us feel more relaxed. And I think that is a good thing because, you know, you say you don't want to offend your colleagues, but I say all of the time, there's someone out there for everyone. Right. So it's not a right and a wrong.
Some people want the really formal and some people want the really personable. And you've just really opened up, I think, the niche of Toastmasters to say, you know, you can have the Toastmaster in all of the gear, but that doesn't mean that you've got to have the boring guy. Like, we can still make it fun, we can still make it personable, we can still inject that personality into it. Very. So that's. Yeah, that's brilliant. And as you rightly say, nothing wrong with formality at all.
A lot of venues insist on it. You know, they insist on it. And rightly so. You know, a lot of elite venues, you know, would insist on that. Well, that's great. And we can do that because of the training. But it. It's quite noticeable that the weddings that have gravitated towards me, if people talk about me, are they. I don't like entry level, I like traditional wedding, you know, the. Yeah, those type of weddings, they're the ones that gravitate towards me there, I think.
So I've been told what my character lends itself to. Yeah. And I think I'd love to see you properly in action, because I'm sure you're absolutely amazing on a wedding day. I really know that you would be. Now, the other thing I wanted to talk to you about is how you've embraced social media because you haven't shied away from social media and the changing technology. And one of the things I remember having a conversation with you about is how you were embracing TikTok.
I think you're embracing TikTok before most wedding businesses even had a TikTok account. So talk to me about your mindset around social media and how you've made that happen. Oh, Becca, how honest you want me to be. I can't bear it. I can't bear it. I'm 103 years old and I'm having to go on TikTok, doing a little dance here and there, but it's a source of high amusement. And I go on to TikTok.
I mean, Facebook and Instagram are obvious, you know, if you want to be on social media, then, you know, that's a good starting point. And I've gradually done a few bits. But TikTok. I got on TikTok because my granddaughter explained, you've got to be on there, granddad. So I said, fair enough. And I've had a lot of fun with it because I get, well, people like yourself, but wedding coordinators and suppliers who are in their 20s. Oh, come on, let's do a TikTok. Well, how'd you do that, then?
So I just pass over my phone and they sort it out for me. There's a. There's a lovely one at Windsor Racecourse on TikTok. This. This charming server, young girl, uni and serving behind. Oh, yeah, I'll do a TikTok. And she did it for me and posted it. And it's got thousands of views, you know, So I had a Look at. That 8,000 views it had when I looked at it earlier today. You? Winsor race course. I loved it. Oh, is that old? I thought it might have been 10,000. Only joking.
How many do I have to get to go viral, becca? Well, maybe 100,000 or more. But I always say to people with the numbers, if you imagine that you stood in front of 8,000 people and talked about yourself and your business, you'd be very chuffed. So the fact that you've done that via TikTok, I think that's a lot to be proud of. And again, I love the way that TikTok, I actually think it really suits your personality because you are fun and you don't mind making a joke and having a go at a go at it.
And so what you're telling me is you don't do it yourself. You basically convince other people to make the TikTok for you and then you post it. Yes. So that was that example. Yes. I mean, my, my posting on TikTok is sparse. Definitely when I'm at an open day or wedding. Yes, I would always. A photographer did one for me a couple of weeks ago at a wedding. So, you know, you. So here's another thing that you were talking about. I got on great with the photographer, charming lady.
She was second shooter. But I worked together with the photographers and, you know, I rounded them up, they took the shots and we got everything done. Good timescale where we're in time. We've got a gap till we go in for the wedding breakfast. So, you know, jobs are good and they fully appreciated my help with rounding the group photos up. So, you know, we were already on a. A plus curve with the photo and then we were talking about tick tock and I said, oh, right, well.
And she said, look, I'll do something for you. This is on trend. And so she did this one for, you know, so that sort of works. And I suppose it's another example of, you know, people person, but I can do a tick tock, but it's so much better when it looks a little more polished with a young person. So QR codes. Becca, I'm blowing smoke somewhere now. You sorted a QR code for me, right? A little while back. Right. Magical. Changed my life.
Instead of getting depressed on a Sunday night, emailing 31 couples from this afternoon, QR code, sign up to my mailing list, etc. So we in the wedding business, we all sort of know that story, but I didn't know. And so that's brilliant. An automated chain of emails. And then people do get back to you at the right time if they're interested in talking, you know.
And so of course, my hilarious announcement at a wedding is, oh, on the tables, ladies and gentlemen, I've been asked to mention there's a QR code, so please scan it and sign up to it and you can upload all your photos for today so that the couple can see them in days and years to come. So please make sure you do that. If you do not know what a QR code is, ask someone half your age and always raises a titter. And of course, people of 50 and 60 are saying, what's this? What's this?
QR code he's talking about. What's this? What's this? I know they're out there thinking that because that was me. So yeah, it's so true. And what I love about you, John, is that you know that you want to do these things and you're not afraid to learn about them, but you're also not afraid to ask other people to help you with them. Whether that's me helping you with the QR code, whether that's the photographer helping you with the TikTok.
And actually we do better when we do the things we're good at, but we also ask for help with the things that we're not so good at. And I think you're absolutely amazing at doing that for sure. Now that leads me nicely on to one of my final questions actually because I know that education is important to you. You know that from the fact that you did a five day course to become a toastmaster and then you got your medallion. I know that because you've read my book.
I know that because you're in the members lounge for people listening who have their wedding businesses. Why do you think it is important at any age to keep on educating yourself? Oh yeah, because nobody ever knows it all. Anyone who a golf analogy. You can shoot five under par today, but you won't do it again tomorrow. You know 18 under par is perfection. Well, it's not because you could make an eagle at a cup of so 20 under pars achievable and so on and so on.
There's never perfection and we know that story. But you've got to keep moving forward and striving to make yourself better because anything. And I'm really keen on this industry and this job. I don't know whether I can go fully, fully full time and I may learn to not enjoy it as much if I did go full time. I was traveling all over during the week. What I've got is a magnificent balance but I want to, I want to get more out of it. And for example, back to home base.
A wedding when guests come and say oh fantastic, we love what you did for our girl and son in law today. Whatever, whatever. That's not unusual because that's the training and that should be a given. You've given them a good day. What I will go away and look at is I actually forgot to check with the venue whether chef's okay before I announced dinner is served. Bon appetit. I didn't check with Lauren, you know, and etc, etc. So you can always just Sharpen up however much it is.
A little bit or a lot. And I mean, my first wedding and last week's wedding would, you know, if you had a video, then the training officers would pull the first one apart, probably, you know. Yeah, but you can always improve. And I always say the only person you should be comparing yourself is to yourself previously. So the fact that you can see that journey, you can see where you've got to where you've come from, I think is so, so important. So, John, what is next for you?
If you could do anything in your life, your career, your business, do you know what's. What's on that bucket list? What's next for you? Yeah, that's really good as well. You've done this before, haven't you? This is really good. Well, I've actually. I'm actually a celebrant, so. But I don't push that. I've got more than enough going on with Toastmaster. I did some training with Karina, who I believe you know, a magnificent celebrant from Kent and Wales. She is, so don't ask.
But I did some training with her and it. I only use it because there's lots of fab celebrants out there, but I only use it if a couple gravitate towards me and ask about a ceremony and if they really invest in you, they say, john, could you do our ceremony? We want you. Yes, I can. And so it's happened half a dozen times where in the past, and I've got them coming up next year as well, where I will do both roles and change hats or coats, in this case, halfway through.
So that's really flattering. So maybe a bit more of that, but just in conversation and definitely, definitely increasing my work on the toastmastering. Yeah, Yeah, I love that. I didn't even know. We hadn't even had time to talk about the fact that you did celebrant training. So I love that you're always expanding, always looking at what you offer, and I'm sure those couples will be thrilled to have you both as their celebrant and their toastmaster.
Now, John, I always end my podcast episodes with the same question, so I'm going to pose that to you now. And that's what's one thing you wish you'd known sooner in your own wedding business. So that's really good. If only I'd known this in advance. Joking. So you may well hate this, but it's not a thing, it's a person.
It's Becca Pountney I could have done with knowing five years ago because don't smile or applaud yourself too much, but because it's experts who know where the network is to outsource. Outsource. Mine's a part time business, but I need to work out whether I can afford £1 10, £400 to outsource something that I know I can't do. Whereas before it's, oh my God, how am I going to do social media? How am I going to do automatic this, that and the other, and then you leave it.
Well, now outsourcing and having a network of people that have been doing this like child's play. And if they then said to me, well, in return, we need someone at the school prize giving, right, here we go, then I'll come and do that for or you're no trouble at all, you know. So Becca Pountney is my answer to that. And John, this is why you're such a good people person, because you make us all feel so good about ourselves. And I appreciate you. I appreciate you so much.
And we'll take that as an answer. Everyone needs a bit more Beck, apparently in their life maybe. Unless they're my husband and then maybe they want a little bit less of me in their life. Who knows? I think I wind them up. Becca, if I could just say my wife has been a great fan of my business, if you like. And another announcement. I say, because you say you wind your husband up. Well, I say to the correct guests at weddings that I think my wife's embarrassed by me and they're on the back foot.
They say, really? I said, yeah, we got married 14 years ago. But I still think she's embarrassed by me because on our wedding day I was only invited to the evening reception. And of course, again, that breaks the ice and raises a lot of smiles, calms some nerves and everything else. John, this has been such a fantastic conversation. You always make me smile. I love talking to you and I hope it's been inspiring to some of my listeners.
If people want to find out more about your business and about you, where's the best place for them to do that? Oh, okay, so website is toastmasterjohn.com it all does what it says on the tin and Facebook, Instagram and TikTok will be Toastmaster John or Instagram's with an underscore in the middle. So fantastic.
And I will make sure I put a link to all of those places in the show notes so people can come and find you and come and watch some of your TikToks, and I hope that there's going to be some more TikTok content coming soon, because I love it. John, thank you so much for being here. It's been a pleasure. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Becca loved it. And, yeah, if you can explain to me what that link is, then I'll have a look at it. Perhaps I'll have a look at myself. I will let you know, I promise.
I love that conversation with John. Isn't he fabulous? He's definitely breaking the mold of the stereotypical toastmaster. He's making me want to see Toastmasters in more wedding packages. And I love how he doesn't care about his age, he doesn't care about his knowledge. He's always looking to move forward and do things and be more creative. And he's a great people person, too. I'll see you all next time.