The actions or value add that's going to fall in low effort but yield the highest result. Something as shifting the way that you show the venue is low effort, high result, right? Having the sample, you know, veil hidden in one of your suites. Low effort, high result, right? It's nothing groundbreaking. And so I challenge anybody that's listening that is a venue to really think about. What are these little changes that I can make to add to the experience?
Is it something as simple as let's sit down and chat for 10 minutes. I'm Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger and you're listening to the Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you love, then you're in the right place. Let's get going with today's episode. Today I'm chatting with Ian Ramirez, co owner and venue Director of Madeira Estates, an award winning Spanish and European inspired luxury wedding and event venue located in Texas.
Ian also loves to give back to the industry by sharing his knowledge with other wedding professionals and venues. I first met Ian out at Wedding MBA in Las Vegas, but there'll be more on that later. Ian, welcome to the podcast. Thank you Becca, so much for having me. I am so excited to have you. As I said, I'm going to talk a little bit more about why I've invited you on and how we met at Wedding MBA in a little while.
But before we get to that, I always like to start by taking my guests back to the start of their journey because if there's people listening and they've never heard of you before, they need to understand why they should listen to what you have to say. So take us back. How did you end up in this crazy world of the wedding industry in the first place? I love that. So I always like to say I'm the opera singer and venue owner from Texas that you didn't know you were meant to meet.
So I actually started my professional career as a professional opera singer and sang professionally across the globe from Portland, Oregon to Stuttgart, Germany. I lived in Deutschland for a little bit and then I got a little homesick so went back to the States and around that time my parents had started Madera, the wedding venue and I started working there just in between opera gigs. I was like, you know, I need something a Little more regular. This is fun. Let me help out my parents.
I'm really OCD and organized. So a lot of what I was doing around the venue was very organizational. And then they were like, well, you're here more and more. Like, don't you want to make this more of like a full time thing? And I was like, yeah, you know, I like it. Let me give it a shot. The general manager position, we called it then became available and they said, why don't you give it a shot? So then I jumped in. And that was eight years ago.
Having no background in hospitality and I just ran with it. I fell in love with the industry. Every wedding was like a little mini opera production to me. We've got the stars of the show, right? We've got our leading couple there that evening that we want to make sure our hitting their cues, we want to make them look good throughout the evening. And so, yeah, that journey started eight years ago. That's when I joined the family business.
And about four years in, my parents approached me and said, hey, you know, as, as we get older, we're starting to think about, you know, our future and retirement and the, the legacy of the venue and would you be interested in becoming, you know, a partner of the business? So then four years in, I became a managing partner at the venue. And at that point, that's when I really started to take it seriously and have always loved being able to give back, as you mentioned in my, my introduction.
And that's when I started getting involved more in the industry and going to things like wedding, MBA and speaking and educating and then starting an additional business that I'm sure we'll talk about here on the podcast today. So that's my journey. I love it. Do you know what I love about the wedding industry is it's full of so many creative people, but also so many people with theatrical backgrounds.
Like you would not believe the amount of people I speak to on this podcast who have a background in singing or in theater or in opera. And I myself love musical theater. I talk about it a lot on the podcast as well. So I'm here for the opera stuff. So I want to talk a little bit more about that before we get into more of the wedding stuff, because in my mind, and I may be completely wrong, but Texas doesn't strike me as a place where opera is big. To me, opera feels like a very European thing.
London, we have a big kind of royal opera. You mentioned Germany. Was opera big in Texas or were you very different to everyone else around you when you do that tree. Great question. Well, knowing that I have a fellow musical theater stan or fan with me, I started my journey actually in musical theater in high school. And it wasn't until my senior year in high school that I joined a high school voice program with Houston Grand Opera.
So Houston Grand Opera is one of the major A houses in the United States. So in Houston, yes, there's a fabulous opera scene, if you will. And so that was really my first exposure to opera. And my teacher there was like, you know, you've got an operatic voice, not a musical theater voice. And she really encouraged me to do auditions for for music school. So then I went off to school in Cincinnati and continued to pursue my opera career.
So yes, in Texas there's quite a few really high level opera houses, including Houston Grand Opera is up there along with Dallas Opera. I would say those are really two great A houses in the United States. Fantastic. I'm learning so much already. I know it's nothing to do with the wedding industry, but it's interesting. I love it. So indulge me for a moment. What is your favorite musical? My favorite musical, I really love Guilty Pleasure. Phantom of the Opera. Yes, I love that.
And do you know that I went to see Phantom of the Opera in London the day I got engaged? My husband surprised me with tickets to go that evening. I didn't know he was going to propose. He proposed at like lunchtime and then he was like, surprise. We have tickets to go to Phantom of the Opera. So that has a special place in my heart. Yes, yes. And for those of you that are like opera or classical music, musical purists, don't worry.
I'm very well aware that Phantom of the Opera is not an opera, but I can still love it. It's one of my favorites. And then I actually got to see it in London in December this past year or two years ago now, which was absolutely amazing. Love it. Right now I am loving Hamilton. That's a big favor of mine because it's really help understand American history.
Although I was making a joke to someone the other day because when I went to Disney and I went to the hall of Presidents and George Washington was like, there. I was like, in my head, George Washington is a black man because that is what happens in Hamilton. And I know realistically that is not true, but that is what I picture in my head. And so that man in the hall of Presidents just didn't look quite right to me. So I absolutely love that.
And my other guilty pleasure, I don't know if this has hit the state so much. Yeah, is six the musical. I went to see that just this weekend, learning all about Henry VIII and his six wives. Fabulous. I love six. Talk about a couple of degrees of separation. My college roommate and high school best friend actually is a sound engineer on Broadway for sick, and so it's definitely one of my favorite shows too. That is so awesome. Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
I went to see it this past weekend and I just love how these shows are coming, like history coming into the mainstream. And my kids were listening to the 6 soundtrack and now they're excited to learn about Henry VIII in so it all comes full circle. Anyway, enough of my guilty pleasure talking about musical theater. We need to get back to weddings, because that is why we are here.
So talk to me about the venue then, because you explained to me that you kind of went into it, it was your parents venue, and then you came into it. Were weddings always a big part of that, or is that a part of the business you've grown yourself? Great question. So I think really a big part of our history is that Madera Estates was always purposefully built to be a wedding venue.
It was really in 2000, like early 2010, 2011, when my parents purchase the property and they weren't quite sure what to do with it, and they went to a wedding that my brother was in in Houston, and they said, this is what we should do with the property. And that was really before the big influx of wedding venues, at least in our market, but even nationwide in the United States, before that became really all the rage of like building purposely built spaces to host weddings.
Coming back to your question, really, pretty much the whole history, we focused on weddings as our main bread and butter. But we do all typ of events. We've hosted quinceaneras, so the basically sweet 16 or the 15 in the Hispanic culture. We have a big Hispanic following in Texas being where we're at. So quinceaneras. We actually just had one of our quinces, they call them. She was at the venue today taking pictures in her dress. Her big celebrations on February 8th.
So quince corporate events, nonprofit galas, even fundraisers, anniversaries and milestones. But again, I think I would come back, Becca, to really, the reason why we started Madera and our bread and butter really is wedding. Okay, so you've. That's always been part of the business. And have you seen, over the time you've worked there, a shift in the wedding market when it comes to your venue has it always been the same or have you seen things change?
What's today's couples looking for versus what they were looking for 10 years ago? Yeah, I think in my time at Madera, the two main shifts that I have seen, I would say when I first started the venue it was everybody was wanting the all inclusive packages, right. The stress free experience and where everything was taken care of for you in house. And then about three or four years into my time at Madera, there was a big influx of new venues in our market that were all just venue only.
They were just the rental of the space. So Becca, you could come to one of my colleagues in the industry, you could pay 8,000, $10,000 just to rent the venue on a Saturday night. But that's all we gave you and tables and chairs, but they didn't offer you any other services. So the pendulum swung the other way. Well now it's really fascinating because now the pendulum is swinging, swinging back towards what we have always been. Our business model is all inclusive now.
Couples, especially Gen Z, they really want that stress free experience. They can't be bothered, right. To deal with all the different moving parts and the stress of planning a wedding. So it's really interesting that the pendulum has swung back in our favor. I would say so. That is one change that I have seen in the industry. I would say really recently a big shift that I have noticed is really the want for intimate weddings.
And I don't really say, you know, everybody has a different definition of what intimate or micro. Right. Really means in my definition, you know, an intimate wedding is anything between 40 to 70 people. Micro in my mind is like 10 or less people because that's like itty bitty bitty. But intimate weddings, we're getting so many inquiries at the venue for 50 guests.
And so I guess today's couples really don't want the whole pomp and circumstance, if you will, of a full blown production, which is, you know, a learning experience for me because I'm so used to. Right, the opera kid that's coming from this full production, right, where there's 150 people, 200 people, where now we're getting a lot more inquiries for these smaller weddings. And so we really have to shift the services that we offer.
Readjusting and rethinking about, well, what is going to be able to serve that audience. Right. We don't want to alienate them. So we did, we did offer some new services to attract and accommodate more of those small intimate weddings. And are you finding those smaller weddings still have the budget of the bigger weddings. Because one thing we're seeing here in the UK is people might be cutting their guest numbers, but then they're just spending more on the fewer guests, if that makes sense.
So rather than spreading it thin, they're kind of spending more on more expensive dinner, but for less people. Is that the same kind of thing that you're seeing or people lowering their budget with their guest numbers? Exactly the same. While I do think inherently when you have a smaller wedding, you it makes sense that they will spend less money. Right. Compared to somebody that has like 150 people. But I would say the per person costs definitely are going up.
I had what we call it Madeira Madeira minis. That's our 50 to 70 person guest count. I had a couple that still came in for 50 people spending close to $30,000. Right. And that's just for 50 people. I have some people that come in or potential leads that come in and they're like, oh, I have 150 people and you know, I want to get married on a Saturday and my budget is like $15,000. Right. So I would agree with you.
I think it's the same here in the US that even though they're having more intimate weddings, it doesn't necessarily equate to them spending less money. Yeah, I think that's really interesting that that's obviously shifting both sides of the world, that kind of mindset of smaller. And I think part of that is to do with COVID I think people saw a smaller intimate experience during COVID and I think some of that's trickled through. But yeah, it's always interesting. The market is always shifting.
That's why I love our industry, because it's interesting to see the twists and turns it takes. Now, you talked about your all inclusive package. So one of the things that I know my listeners love to talk about is the venue vendor relationship. Because I have listeners who are venue owners or work for venues. I have listeners who are the DJs, the florists, the cake makers.
So when you're working with vendors at your venue, are you prescriptive that your couples can only use one cake maker, or do you have a set list or are they included in the package? Or is your package more just the catering and the venue and then they bring in the other things? Great question.
I think one of the biggest things that I will point out that has from a business model perspective here in the States, that has continued to again, the pendulum swinging back towards all inclusive is that venues now in our market are really going towards what we would consider optional packages because we're trying to cast a wider net to couples that maybe potentially want to bring in, say, you know, they have a contact or somebody in their network that is a cake baker.
So really these optional a la carte services is really how we are seeing a lot of the venues in my market move towards. So for us we offer catering partners. So we have three catering packages that they can choose from. We have bar service in house. So in Texas we have something called the Texas association of Beverage Commission, basically which manages, you know, liquor licenses, being able to serve alcohol. And so we have a TABC license.
So the bar services are definitely a big revenue stream for us. We offer in house wedding coordination. I employ two full time wedding coordinators. We have partners for cake, dj, fireworks even. So all of those, we have commission based structures and relationships with these vendors that I mentioned that can be included in the package package for our clients. Now there is, there are some required services, everything from the bar services.
Legally we are required to make our clients use our bar services and then our in house coordination team. And, and a big part of the reason why we have always required our clients to use our in house coordinators is it's another extension of protection for you as the venue. A lot of venues that don't offer that in house wedding coordination or wedding day planning service, I think open themselves up to a lot of risk.
And you're not always getting the same person in there that knows how to use the layout of the venue very well. They're not doing things to your liking in terms of being able to stick to your policies or even bring in vendors that you're used to. So those are really why we require those two services. And then for catering, we do charge a buyout fee if they want to bring in an outside caterer. And for me, catering really is one of those vendor services that will make or break an evening.
And we don't want you just to bring in, you know, Joe Schmo off the street to, to bring food for 200 guests because it's a reflection on us as the venue. So I would say as a venue, regardless if it is being sold in package at Madera or if it's just simply a vendor living on a preferred vendor list. I think the most important recommendation that I would have to any vendor venue relationship is that it's mutually beneficial and that there's a benefit for each party that's involved.
And do you ever look at new suppliers? Because I Think I see it from both sides. I think as a venue, it's helpful to have people that you know and you trust and that have used the venue before and you know you're in safe hands. But then also as a vendor, when, especially when people are newer to the market, sometimes they feel like, well, no one will ever want to work with me because I'm new and they've already got their favorite people. So do you ever have much of a change of supplier?
Do you have vendors approaching you? How do you look at bringing newer people into that system? Great question. So we have, I'll talk about our vendors almost in two categories. We have the vendors that we sell, I would say that our salespeople are selling the catering, the cake, the dj, the fireworks as I referenced. And then we have really the vendors that are just preferred vendor status.
So let's say in package vendors and then preferred vendors, those are the two vendor categories that we work in. I would say in package vendors, very rarely do we make a change unless the vendor is no longer executing to our expectations for our clients. And as a venue, I have absolutely fired vendors in the past for not meeting our expectations or not meeting my clients expectations. One of my catering partners, we've been in business with two of them actually the entire 13 years.
And one of them came on board about five or six years ago. And that was kind of that example that you mentioned. You know, I always want to be open and accommodating to newer vendors that come into the industry. And so this one vendor, I mean, they did it right. They were recording me. They knew that we had a set list already and they were just kind of always there in the wings. They kept messaging me, sending me gifts, right. Networking with me at events.
And in that moment when I needed somebody, guess who is at the top of the list? When I fired one caterer, I was like, I need a new, a new third caterer. That was the person that I brought on. And so I've done that with all of our in package vendors. There has been a change over the years in some of them and ultimately it just depends on the level of service they're offering our clients.
Now with our in package services, if I do get a vendor that reaches out wanting to be on our list, we send them a vendor application to get onto our list and then we talk to them with ways of how they can continue to foster the relationship that would be with the in package vendors. With the preferred vendors, we're always looking for, you know, the newest and coolest thing in the industry that we can share with our couples.
I think I absolutely am one of those venue owners that has that mindset that if a newer business reaches out to me, I want to give them at least the opportunity to get to know me. I never want to just, like, slam the door because you never know who may be able to help you in the future. And. And the truth is, let's use photography as an example. A lot of my preferred photographers have been on my list for 13 years. Well, guess what that means. As they have grown, so have their price points.
Right? So now all of my vendors that have been on my preferred vendor list, specifically with photography, have all raised their prices to where I can't accommodate some of my couples that may necessarily not want to spend as much money. At Madera, we call it fun bucks. We have a cool term for a budget. It's like, how do you want to spend your fun bucks? Right.
And so it is important for me to be able to cater to my clients that maybe don't have a budget of 5 or $6,000 or $8,000 for photography, but rather maybe their budget is only $2,500, $3,000. And newer vendors tend to fall into that category as they're starting their business.
So I think it is important to be able to find that balance of, like, your old guard, if you will, of the vendors that you know that you can trust, but then also having some newer faces that come in that you know, really truthfully bring a different perspective, whether it is photography or cake. Right. Or DJ services. But, yes, absolutely, we're always open to receiving those new inquiries and then fostering relationships from there.
I think there's something that can be learned from that from both sides as well. I think there's that reminder to the people who are on lists and are the old guard not to get lazy and not to let their standards slip, because there is always someone else that's waiting in the wings, the understudy. We'll go back to our theater reference. There's always the understudy waiting when you break your leg to come on and take your place.
So we need to make sure that we're keeping our standards high so that the other people don't come in. And I think it's encouraging for newer people to realize there are those gaps. There are those. Those places you can fill, but you need to look at what you're bringing that's different. And also being willing to keep going and be that understudy, because you might just get Your moment eventually. And I think a lot of people think, oh, they don't want me today. I'll just give up.
Whereas actually, as you mentioned, your caterer story, they were persistent and they stayed and they were genuine and eventually it paid off for them. So, yeah, so much to learn. So much to learn. Okay, I want to move on and talk about Wedding mba, because I mentioned it at the start that that is where we met in person this year, which is gone 2024.
And the reason I wanted to bring you on the podcast, Ian, was because when I was at Wedding MBA Day 1, I go round and I interview people and I chat people for my own podcast and I say, you know, you've been to your vendor specific session. So I was going around interviewing people. What have you learned today? What were the highlights from this session? And I am not joking when I say I was doing this after the first day and everyone was saying to me, I went to Ian Ramirez session.
It was amazing. I loved Ian's session. Ian's session from the venue track was amazing to the point where I actually had to start saying, can you say something different? Because this is going to be a really boring podcast episode if everyone says that their favorite thing on day one was the same thing. So I'm like, I need to chat to this Ian guy because clearly he has something good to say. I love that so many people loved your session.
So I wanted to get you on the podcast because a lot of my listeners weren't able to get out to Vegas, especially if they're based here in the uk. And there was clearly some golden nuggets in your talk, which I also didn't come to you. So I'm hoping you can not share them all, but just share a little taste of what you spoke about and why everyone loved it so much. So the name of your session, I've got my Wedding MBA program right here, was the unopened house.
So the little tagline that was put together says it's time to say goodbye to the traditional open house. So first of all, explain to me in terms that English people would understand, what is an open house to start with? And then explain to me why we don't want it anymore. Okay, so an open house essentially is an event at your venue that you would host to attract prospective couples that may want to book their wedding at your venue.
And at this event, it is very common for the venue to invite the preferred vendors. So caterers, cake bakers, photographers, DJs to be in attendance at this open house. So that the couples can not only picture their wedding at your venue, oftentimes the ceremony site is set up for a real ceremony. The reception hall is set up with tables and chairs so they can imagine, right, what their wedding day could look like, but they also have the opportunity to meet a bunch of vendors.
And so you're really as a venue, we have two audiences at an open house. When we were doing our open houses for many years, as many venues still do today, they host an open house for two reasons. To attract prospective couples, right? We're getting new couples to come in the door. And then we also have the audience of our booked couples, our couples that are already. Their contract is signed, they're getting married at my venue. So you have those two audiences.
So for me, and selfishly, my focus was always on the prospective couples. We our intention of doing the open house was to attract potential couples to book their wedding at Madera Estates. Well, then you're like, okay, that's great, but I'm ignoring my current couples. And so my intention with them was to essentially squeeze the lemon, if you will, to generate more revenue off of my booked couples. So we would upsell them on additional services.
But really the value add for my couples that are already booked at Madera is they have the benefit of meeting all of our preferred vendors in person. And a lot of my preferred vendors like that because a photographer, you know, we're spoiled venues that are listening today on the podcast, we are spoiled because we are one of the only vendor categories, save maybe for catering, that actually get to meet prospective couples in person.
Photographers, even DJs sometimes efficient, y'all are doing zoom calls, I imagine. I don't know how many of you that are listening today actually do appointments in person. But we are spoiled as venues, right, because we get the bodies. We get that belly to belly interaction when we meet with them. And so my preferred vendors loved coming to the open house because they could meet my couples in person.
So it was really another sales opportunity for them to get in front of, in their eyes, what were qualified leads. And so that was really the essence of why we hosted the open house. Now to your question of why it's time to say goodbye to the traditional open house. I think I'll answer this in a couple of ways. I think first of all, if you are a newer venue listening and you're maybe in year one, year two, even year three of business, oftentimes you just need bodies in the door, right?
You just want people to come see the venue, to be exposed to the venue and open house may still be a good fit for you, but after being in the industry for 13 years, a couple of things, a couple of patterns emerged for us. And so I'll start it with the data that I shared at Wedding MBA at the very beginning of my presentation. For those of you that didn't attend Wedding mba, I'm very dramatic, going with the opera vibe. I started my whole presentation with a, a eulogy to the open house.
So I read a eulogy basically saying, you know, it's time to put them to rest. And I started the presentation with some data. We noticed that in 2023 we had booked 15 weddings in the month of January, which was very common for us. January's engagement season, you know, it was our highest booking month and we hosted an open house that month. 2023 in July, we hosted an open house. At the end of that month, we had booked seven weddings.
Historically pretty average, right, for the number of weddings that we had booked in that month. But we realized we were putting a lot of effort into the open house, right. Particularly for these prospective couples to get them there. Right. And we found that a lot of patterns were coming about that. Our couples that were touring the venue earlier in the month, let's say at the beginning of January, they toured and they knew we were hosting an open house at the end of the month.
Well, in our market, it's very common for the venues to release open house promotions. So what was happening is if a couple came at the beginning of January and they knew we were hosting an open house at the end of the month, they would actually wait to come to the open house and take advantage of that booking promotion. So in essence, what it's doing is it's delaying the sales process. It's taking longer for them to book.
On the other side of the coin, we would host an open house with the hope of attracting new leads and new clients to the venue. We did that. Our open houses in January saw sometimes 300, 400 people. We noticed that the couples that were interested at the open house, there was so much going on, it was very hard for us to give our one on one attention to that many people that so many of the couples had to schedule a follow up tour and come back after the open house to get the full experience.
And so we were like, huh, we're really not converting that many people at the open house. They're either touring earlier in the month and they're coming to book because of the open house promotion or they're finding about madera they're coming to the open house, and then they need to come back out for a tour afterwards. And we said, well, why don't we just eliminate the open house? Because touring seems like the golden nugget, right?
And at Madera, our venue tours are like 90 minutes to two hours long. A traditional open house in our market is anywhere from maybe three, four hours. So for me to give my 100% of a venue tour to a couple at an open house, if our open house is only three hours long, that means I can see maybe, maybe as one person, two people, I don't have enough salespeople to accommodate the 300 people, right, that were coming to the open house.
So it's actually creating a lot of friction because people would get frustrated that they didn't get the answers that they needed at the open house. Case in point, I'll drop this in here because this is real world experience. I gave a venue tour to a potential client this last weekend that said, oh yeah, you know, we've been going to open houses in the market.
And she said, I was really disappointed at this one venue that I follow that I really love because I went to the open house and there was no one there to answer my questions. And this is like a level venue in my market. And I was like, wow, I'm really sorry that that happened to you. And we just realized that we needed to do a test after we experienced that in 2023. So 2024, we decided we weren't going to do any open houses. No open house in January, no open house in July.
And guess what happened? The month of January 2024, we booked 15 weddings, the same number of weddings we booked the year before. In July of 2024, we booked eight weddings, actually one wedding more than we had the July before. So we found that the open house really wasn't moving the needle for our primary goal, which was to book new weddings, to book more couples.
And so with that data in mind, you know, there's a couple of things that I shared during my presentation of why I think that is the case. A part of it I already shared. But a lot of it comes down to this current generation Gen Z and the model of the open house. Traditionally, the vendors would have booths almost around your venue, kind of like a wedding show. So when couples go to wedding shows or when they were coming to our open house, they feel like a fish in a barrel, right?
The vendors are going up. Oh, my gosh. Have you found your cake yet? Have you found your photographer yet? And what does that do to the couple? It puts them in the mindset of saying no instead of in the mindset of saying yes. And in my opinion, if any vendors are listening, that are preferred vendors at Madera States. I'm sorry, in my opinion, it's all about me. The open house was all about showing off the venue, right, to book more weddings.
So we found out that data and now we're a team, no open house. So we decide it's time to say goodbye. And essentially what we've done is we no longer offer the open house to prospective couples and we've really gone all in on the one on one experience during the venue tour and really elevating that. And, and for me, that really is the main way that you can book more couples is by taking your venue tour to the next level.
And then we've implemented what I call, which is probably the closest thing to now, we still do an open house. We call it a VIP experience for our current booked couples. So that hasn't gone away, but now we really have a separate day that I can add value to my current clients experience. They come meet our vendors, they meet our wedding coordinators, they meet our team, they can show off the venue to family and friends and I can also maximize my revenue per booking on my booked clients.
So yeah, that's kind of like in a nutshell why we have said goodbye to the open house. And yeah, there's so much I love about that. Okay, I'm already seeing why people are saying they loved your talk at wedding mva, because I can see that there's so much in that because not only are you sharing your own story, but you're sharing it with data and what you've looked at. So there's, you know, you haven't just gone, no, I don't fancy this anymore, so we're going to do this.
You've got kind of cold hard facts in your venue about while that's worked. And also you can see how it's tracking against today's generation. I talk a lot about Gen Z and how they want more of a personalized experience and they want bespoke so they don't want to be shoved in a room with everyone else and no one to answer their questions. It just doesn't work anymore. The one bit of pushback I know I would get.
So if I was meeting one to one with a client here in the UK and I said to them, look, I've had Ian on my podcast, he says, say goodbye to your, your venue Open day, say goodbye to your open houses.
The first thing I know they would say to me, and I wonder if people have said this to you, is I'm just worried it'll be more time intensive because if I do one open house, all the people come at once, whereas if I do individual tours, it's going to be an hour and a half of my time times 15, 20, 30 people. So have people pushed back with that and what would you say to them in response? Absolutely.
So I think and there may be a difference of the business model here in the United States than in the uk. In, in the US it is very common for venues to do those one on one appointments. And I will say it is very much driven by exactly what you said, Becca, in terms of getting those personalized experiences when you were doing like the open house or the venue open day where couples just come and tour the space.
I think ultimately you are actually saving yourself time from having to put all of that effort and energy into one event. You're saving marketing dollars. Think of as a venue. How, how much time am I investing and putting this one event together to market to clients? How much money am I spending also on marketing dollars to get them there for one day? Right. A couple that's really eager, that's really qualified, they might not, they may not be available for that one day.
And so for us it's really putting it back in the client's shoes and their benefit to be able to come at a time that's more beneficial to them. But I think as a venue you can still safeguard your time. And I think that's really where a lot of that concern may come from, from other venues. Right. It's like one, I'm wasting my time with unqualified leads. Right. Which none of us want to deal with unqualified leads.
And so for us, we've done a really good job of qualifying our leads, not only with transparent pricing on our website, but through our sales funnel, but even through our communication with them. If we sense that a lead is not a good fit, we're going to tell them that they're not a good fit and they shouldn't come out for a venue tour. And so I think that is, you can really combat that perspective or change their perspective.
I would challenge anybody that has that feeling, okay, well how can I make it work for me? How can I still maximize my time without having to feel like I'm meeting with all these individual people? So that's what I would do is really get focused on the qualification process before just inviting anybody and everybody out to see your space. Yes, the transparent pricing as well.
I just have to highlight that because it's something I talk about all of the time and sometimes I know venues don't like to do that. So I'm all on board with that because. Because I do think it, it does make sure that the people that can't afford to come or it's not in their price range, don't waste your time on a 90 minute tour when they're not the right people. So I'm here for it.
Okay. You said that you got rid of your open house, you're doing these tours, but you also said something interesting to me, which was that you're making them more personalized, interactive. I can't remember exactly the words you said. So what makes your venue tour different to the standard venue tour that I might go on? So I think there's a big trap, if you will, with venue tours in that owners, venue managers, sales rep, show the venue like a real estate agent would show a home, right?
So when a real estate agent shows someone's a home, someone a home, they're very focused on the amenities, right? Or the specs of the house. It's like, oh, well, this is a two bedroom house and here's the vanity bath and here's the kitchen, right. And here's the living room. It's all just blanket statements and features. You're not getting a chance to learn about the client that is standing in front of you.
And a big part of the reason why our tours are so long is we actually start with about a 15 minutes, 10, 15 minute pre sit down meeting where we get to know them, we warm them up, we understand, you know, their engagement story, how long they've been together, what's important to them. Because if I don't know my client that's sitting in front of me for the tour, how can I even try to sell them something? And the truth is, right, you want to be almost like the, like a boxer, right?
Anytime that a client throws a job one way, you kind of have to bob and weave. So I talk about the venue tour almost as like being on your feet, bobbing and weaving. So if they start to go one direction with their vibe for the wedding, I'm picking up on that and I'm jumping on their bandwagon. Maybe a better analogy might be a chameleon, right? We can kind of like shape shift and change our colors to adapt to the client that's in front of us.
And so there's there's really these two concepts when it comes to the venue tour. It's either, you know, they arrive and you go, right, they get to the venue and you start touring, or you sit down and you get to know them just a little bit first. And I'm, I'm more of the mindset of doing the latter. But my experience is very personal. It's very individualized. We get to know the couple on the tour. We're not just pointing out spaces and amenities.
I continue to ask them questions and get to know them and I paint the picture of their wedding day. I actually make it interactive. And so you mentioned one of those ways you asked, how do I make it interactive when I get to the ceremony site, instead of just like walking down to the ceremony site and saying, well, here it is, this is where you get married.
No, what I do is if I have a couple that's in front of me, I may have one of them practice walking down the aisle first and then I'll have the other one hang back and watch with me and say, oh, this is, this is what you would see on wedding day. Your partner's gonna walk down the aisle. So then they get put into that emotional experience of the wedding day. And it's something that I like to call I geek out on reading. I read a lot of books. It's called the co creative process.
So when you're doing that right, they're actually starting to participate. They're building the own, their own story in their own mind. And so that's how I engage them. If, if I'm in the champagne suite, for example, at Madera, we have a champagne su. We have two on site suites where couples get ready. If I have, let's say a bride and her mom is there with me on the tour, I may bring out a practice veil and tell the mom, this is where you're going to put the veil on your bride on wedding day.
This is where you're going to help her button up her dress and actually have them stand where they would be on wedding day. And so it's involving them more as an active participant. I like to say that we want to move them from an observer role, right where I'm just like, like looking around the house. I'm looking at the bedroom, number one. Number two, I'm looking at the venue to an active participant.
So how can you twist it to where they're actually involved in the process of touring the venue? So good. So, so helpful. I think people just need to think differently and realize that couples want this. Like, they're so excited about the experience of their day. I quite often say to my hotel venues or venues I work with, right?
Imagine when your couple turn up for the venue tour and they just wander in, they don't know where to park, and then they go find the reception, and then someone's grumpy with them, and then they're waiting around for you. I said, you're trying to sell them the wedding day. Now. On the wedding day, I guarantee you're gonna greet them like they're the King and Queen of England with their Prosecco.
I'm like, how are you selling that when you're not giving them an experience that's anywhere close to that? And I think people are like, oh, yeah. Like, it's the simple things where it's like, how can we make these people. People feel as special as they will on their wedding day? I think you've got some great, great ideas in there. Yeah. And it's really about finding the actions. You know, I think about what we do as a. As a business in a quadrant, right.
We have actions or opportunities that land in this quadrant. And I always want to find the. The actions or value add that's going to fall in low effort, but yield the highest result. Something as shifting the way that you show the venue is low effort, high result, Right. Having the sample, you know, veil hidden in one of your suites. Low effort, high result, right. It's nothing groundbreaking.
And so I challenge anybody that's listening that is a venue to really think about, what are these little changes that I can make to add to the experience? Is it something as simple as let's sit down and chat for 10 minutes? That's nothing groundbreaking, but it's going to give you a big result. Even, like you said, the Prosecco, like, like, hey, let's kick things off right at the beginning with a little bit of celebratory toast.
At Madera, we host Sangria, so we do Sangria Saturdays for our tours. And again, it's coming down to what this current generation wants. They want an experience, right. We want to tap into their emotions. We want to tap into their senses. Even more importantly, love it. So many great ideas. I know people listening are going to be having sparks flying and different things they're thinking about. Now, you mentioned at the beginning that you also have another business venture on the go now.
So you obviously have your work with the venue. You have, you're speaking, but I believe you're now working with other venue owners as well. So just tell me a bit more about that and what that involves. Yeah, so we started the Venue help desk in 2023. Essentially what venue Help Desk is, is we are a go to resource for venues that have a specific problem and then we point them in the direction of a vetted solution.
And ultimately our goals are to help you attract more leads, convert more of those tours into bookings and help you optimize your operation. And so we have a couple different ways that then you Help Desk helps venues. Number one, it would be through our educational arm, venueversity. So we do have online recordings for courses. Tour to yes, Success was one of our most recent courses that we launched that will be coming back this year by popular demand.
So if anybody is looking to elevate their tour experience, be on the lookout for that launching. We also have the lead conversion Lab which is really helping venues convert more of those inquiries. Right, those precious inquiries that are coming in, helping you take them from initial inquiry and converting them into booked appointments. And then outside of the courses, we also have our online shop. So we're a big believer in sharing the wealth and knowledge.
If you go to venuehelpdesk.com, you'll see our free resources shop. There's a lot of templates and tools for you to be able to download and then we have some purchasable downloads too. If you do host, still host open houses. We just released our open house marketing playbook. For those of you that just can't let go, you can't put it to rest, there's that resource for you.
And then we do have our trusted Helper guide which essentially is a list of vetted industry professionals that we like to work with and trust. So we've either used them personally in our own business at Madera Estates or we have vetted them and worked with other venues that know like and trust those services. So if you need help with SEO, we've got a go to recommendation for SEO. If you need help with Google Ads, TikTok Ads, we've got our recommendation for that as well.
So really being that one stop shop for venues when they have a specific problem and we can help them find that one solution. I just had a really funny thought. When you were sharing through all of those things and you were talking about your, your program where people could still buy the resources to help them with their venue open house, I was like, wouldn't it be funny if that they paid to download it?
And then it was just you reading the eulogy and explaining why the open house is dead and they shouldn't do it anymore. Stop it. That's going to be amazing. I'm adding that to my list of things to do. Just don't do it. Don't do it. Like we know you, you want to do it. But even now you've purchased this thing, we're still going to tell you why you shouldn't do it. Absolutely love it. So many great things.
Before we kind of come on to the closing part of the podcast us, I'd love to just know from your point of view because you obviously work with a lot of venues across the spectrum, particularly in the states. Is there one particular thing that you see a lot of venues doing that you would say is a mistake or where they're really struggling? A common theme. Yeah, I would say really the, the number one mistake that I see a lot of venues make. Can I, can I give two? I'm gonna give two. You can.
I think number one is coming back to what is, what is going to help you move the needle in terms of sales. And at the end of the day it comes down individual tours. You may be coming after me, right? Because some of you are used to doing those open house style events where you're doing group tours or a lot of people coming in. But this current generation wants one on one experiences.
And so if I were to go back and to focus on how I would grow my business differently, then it would be go all in on the venue tour experience. Our tour when I first started at Madera was an hour long. I was doing exactly what, what the realtor does and just like pointing out rooms in the house, right? Fast forward to 2025. Our venue tours now are regularly two hours long. And listeners today, you may be like, oh my God, that's a lot of time.
But think about the investment that some of these couples are making. I just sold a couple that spent almost $60,000 with us. Don't you think it deserves that amount of time to go over all of the details for their wedding? So that would be number one biggest mistake, mistake that venues make is that they don't take stock and inventory of what's really going to be able to help them make more sales. And that is the venue tour, Right. It is vital to the success of your venue.
And then I would say number two is really looking at when you make decisions at your venue when it comes to making renovations. If you're an older venue or if it's buying new inventory. Make decisions with the concept in your head of Follow the money, right? Before you decide to invest in anything at your venue, what is the return going to be once you've made that decision? So I use this example of a lot. If, if.
If it comes down to a new rental item that a lot of your couples, you know are gonna rent. Let's say new chairs, right? Or is it landscaping on a portion of your business? Which one is gonna get you money faster? Right? Maybe the landscaping will be attracting to the new tourists that come in. Or is it the chairs? Right. Maybe couples want to rent the chairs. So I'm not going to tell you the answer here, but think for yourself. How am I going to make money faster?
So before you make any decision, I want you to live by the mantra, follow the money. So important. And I think that translates across the spectrum of all vendors when they're running their businesses is that exact thing. What is the return on investment? Where are you going to follow the money? Love it, love it, love it. Ian, this has been fantastic. I'm so glad I followed up on the advice of all of those people that I interviewed at Wedding MVA and got you on the podcast. Chat to you now.
I always end my podcast with the same question, so I'm going to pose that to you now. And it's. What's one thing you personally wish you'd known sooner in your own business? One thing that I wish I knew sooner was setting boundaries with my clients. I think when I started in the industry, I had a different perspective or thought process of what customer service was and what hospitality meant. And I have a new appreciation for the way that we run our business now. And so that.
That is one thing that I think I wish I had known when I started. Love it. Ian, it's been so fun to talk to you. You said you like reading a book, so I'm gonna send you a copy of my book, so make sure you send me your address. Thank you. After this because my book last year came out just before Wedding MBA last year. It's called Done is Better than Perfect Building a Successful Wedding Business.
I'll send it over to you and you can read it because not only is there some musical theater references in there, there is also a QR code that you can. You can scan inside my book and it gives you a musical theater playlist to listen to while you read it. So that is coming your way. And if you come to London again soon, let's go together and watch something in the West End, because I would absolutely love that. Let's do it. Thank you so much. Amazing. Thank you so much for being here. Take care.
Bye. Such a fantastic conversation. I knew when I interviewed all those people on the first day of Wedding, NBA and Ian Zane kept coming up that I absolutely had to invite him onto the podcast. And I'm so glad he did. Not only is he a kindred musical theater fan and opera singer performer, but he also really knows his stuff when it comes to his venues and what they should be doing with their marketing. See you next time.