It doesn't matter where you are . You can be kind , you can be responsive , you know you can be clear .
Clarity is kindness , like all of those things are very important to me and as I work with each client and I'm getting a feel for , okay , this is how responsive they are or this is how much hand-holding they need , I'm kind of making mental notes to myself like , okay , if I see this again and really it takes a lot of and I think probably some of my
background in reading people through interpreting kind of plays into this Like you have to really see a person beyond what the superficial are , just the first layer that you first initially have when you meet them .
Welcome to the Web Design Business Podcast , with your host , josh Hall , helping you build a Web Design Business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you love .
Happy New Year , friends . Welcome into the podcast . I'm so excited to kick off 2024 with a whopper of a conversation with one of my students , a member of Web Designer Pro .
This is Jennifer Alford , who has such an incredible Web Design Business behind her , and it's been a joy and an honor to see what she's done this year , this past year in particular , in 2023 , to build a business that suits her personality and her background .
But , more importantly , she's done some really really cool things to attract the right style clients for her based off of personality fit . So one big thing going on in Web Design right now is niching , and if you're like me , when you think of niching , you probably think about niching by industry or niching by a certain client profile .
But what Jennifer has done , which is really interesting , is she's really found out the way to niche by personality type . So she works with a lot of different types of businesses , but her ideal clients that are coming to her have certain values and you'll find out . She really is all about helping purpose driven business owners .
But the question is , how the heck do you find people who jive with you like that and not get people who are just solely focused on profit or growth or who are not potentially good client fits for any reason .
Jennifer has really done a good job with her business to distill what's worked for her in attracting the right purpose and passion , led business owners to her and her business and it's really , as you'll find out through this conversation it's made her enjoy her business more and more and she's laid an incredible foundation here for 2024 and beyond , and I'm so excited
to share with you our conversation , where she really opens up completely about what she's learned to do this so that you can do it , too , for your business , because there's nothing worse than building your business only to be working with clients that just make you sigh when they call you or that you just don't want to show up for , don't even want to get the
day started because you got to work with some pain in the ass , clients who you're just not a good personality fit for .
So I want you to enjoy your web design business and to enjoy the people you're working with just as much as Jennifer , and that's exactly what we're going to dive into here for everything from attracting your ideal clients , how to do that , how to position your website through copy and graphics and messaging to weed out the bad fit personality clients .
She's also learned a lot about boundaries and running her business and being a business owner and , again , how to attract those similar , like minded , passion led business owners . So much and more we cover in this conversation . You can find out more about Jennifer by going to her site at Jenny Lane Designscom .
That'll be linked in the show notes for this episode of Josh Hallco , slash 306 as well , along with all the other links and resources we've mentioned . So , without further ado , here's Jennifer to share exactly what she's learned and done in her business to attract the ideal clients for her , so that you can do the same , jennifer . Welcome to the podcast officially .
I'm so excited to chat with you . Thank you for taking some time and I'd like I said , I don't know exactly what we're going to get into here , but you have an incredible foundation to your business . You're just up to some amazing things , so thank you for joining .
Yeah , I'm excited to be here .
You said that you you like to talk , but what's really interesting about that is I have found that to be a common thread with folks who do sign language .
That's because we have to be quiet so long and then we don't especially women , we don't get all our words out , but that is honestly , I could see that it , because how often are you doing signing like signing for folks ? Right now I've pulled way back , just physically .
It's demanding on my shoulders , but so I'm maybe 10 hours a week right now , but I was full time pretty much for I don't know the last few years . I've been an interpreter for 25 years or so .
Okay , I've been on sporadically that makes sense , though , if you're literally like feeling bottled up to where , when you're done signing it's yeah , you're like you're going 10 miles a minute . And I say that because we had a founding member of Pro , nick who , who also did signing and yeah , he could just go , so very common thread .
But yeah , I'm so excited to hear what's worked for you this year . I mean , you joined Pro , I think springtime right and I've seen you in less than a year , so what like nine months .
I've seen your business take a 360 change and I think the most , the coolest thing I've seen from you and you even mentioned this to me recently is like you , as a business owner , have have grown . I mean , how has how has you focusing on being a business owner helped your business as a yeah , yeah .
So when I first started doing web design , just from the very beginning , it was just kind of dabble , helped somebody here and there . And then a couple years ago someone asked me to build a site for them and I was like , yeah , I can throw you a WordPress together , a site together . And so I did that . And I was like I actually really like this .
I wonder if I can make this a business . And so then I took , like I was in WordPress , that felt a little bit like I'm just skirting around the platform and doing the best I could with what I had basically taught myself .
And so then I found this other platform called show it that also uses some of WordPress , and I was like , oh , wow , okay , so I can build this . And then I started learning design concepts and just how to build a website that's not just pretty but actually works well for the customer . And so I was doing that .
And so , as I was building a business , not really understanding what that meant exactly , I was like I don't really know what I'm doing , business wise . And so I was in another show it the show it course and I was just asking , like , what do I need to have in place before I start taking clients . Do I need a contract ? Do I need some kind of CRM ?
I'm doing like I was seeing all these words and not really knowing what that meant . And so and I am a course junkie I love to learn .
I like I'm a professional learner and I was like a hyper learner right now and I learned fast and like I learned and apply .
I learned and apply . And so what did that course started ? Building out sites for people and but still feeling a little fumbly in the business side of it how do I take payments , how do I do payment plans , how do you know how do I do all that ? And so I was asking the previous course creator that I was in you know how do I set that up ?
And they gave us a little glimpse of how to run business stuff . But I was like , okay , I'm getting a feel and put my toe in the water , I'm getting these different products to help me . And then I took the VIP course .
That was Sarah .
Yes , yes , and I think you were on one of her things and I was like I literally just bought this course . I cannot buy another course Like that's it . This was my course for the year , that's it , that's all I've been investing right now and then I would . So I hopped on your podcast . I was like , oh , this is so good . Why are you so good ?
And so I was like , okay fine , okay fine . And I was able to get another website . So I literally took what I made on that website and invested it like 100% into Web Designer Pro and I was like oh , that's amazing . Yeah .
And so I got in and I was just like oh my goodness , because I was just looking at the courses , like okay , I can do these courses . But then I like community , like I build my whole everything that I do in life on community , like I love the neighborhood I you know I love that whole thought process .
Yeah , I .
As soon as I got in , I was like , oh , wow , this is like the real deal . This is not just these courses , which I literally would be laying in bed on my side just absorbing them at night on two times speed , because I learned you have web design business dreams as you're doing your business . I was like wait , wait , wait .
And then it's like I'm hopping out of bed because I'm so excited to apply all these things that I'm learning . Before I would dread getting out of the bed going to work . Not because I didn't love what I did , it was just I kind of lost my way in that and I just was ready for this new creative adventure .
And so I would literally hop out of the bed like six o'clock , like ready to go in my office , and my kids are like what are you doing , mom ?
What an exciting thing though . Isn't that great ? This is actually a really important point to enjoy learning , because it is one of the funnest aspects .
It is and it's like oh wow , this is brand new . I feel like a kid all over again . I'm a home school mom , so that really just kind of propelled me into this kind of life .
Inside of it . I've been doing this podcast now for four years this fall and one of the funnest aspects of it was learning . When I went through Pat Flynn's podcasting course and I was so excited about now I know what to do and now I know how to format this .
It's not near as complicated as I thought and that was one of the funnest parts was like gearing up for it . So I love that you are a proponent of enjoying the learning process because it is so important , so fun , yeah . And then , when it's over , it's like , oh , I wish there was more . That's all right . More courses , more courses , you're coming .
Yeah , yeah , so yeah , and I was not even thinking I was moving back to WordPress . And then you had your Divi course and I was like , let me just see you know . I was like , oh , this is very similar . I wish I had found this first . I would have totally done Divi , just because I felt like there's just so much more flexibility in WordPress .
And you were doing ? Were you doing like 50-50 between Show it and Squarespace ? Were you using Squarespace as well ?
I actually had not started using Squarespace at that time , but I started working with somebody just kind of helping her behind the scenes . I love all the little nitty-gritty stuff , the details , the making sure everything's where it needs to be . So she was like what about Squarespace ? Can you help me in Squarespace ? And I was like , well , I'm sure I could .
And so I hopped in a course and took that course real quick and learned that and built a couple of Squarespace sites for some of my customers and I really , like I learned to appreciate . I know we had a conversation like early on like how do I decide which platform to use ?
But I really have kind of refined like okay , wordpress is for my people that are kind of hands off and maybe they just want to do post or they just want to update little things , whereas Show it is more like they might want to get in there and kind of play around .
Maybe the people that like Adobe and you know , because it has that kind of feel but still has some WordPress parts of it . And then Squarespace is like I want to be able to handle this after I'm , after you design it .
I want , I want to be able to take care of it , and so I've really been able to kind of help my clients decide which platform is best by just knowing what's in it ?
That's very , very cool .
I mean , in most cases I don't advise using different platforms or use two , but , to your point , if there is a need with clientele where you can , if you feel confident with WordPress and the tool stack there , you feel confident with Show it or one other option , then you are the best example in order to do that effectively , because it really is about your
client . It's like , well , yeah , if they do want to manage it , then that's going to be the way to go , whereas WordPress is even more so nowadays . I feel like the least user friendly compared to Show it or Squarespace or Wix . So I think it's a really solid model .
I actually think a lot of web designers are going to move to that direction , so you may be on the cutting edge of like having different platforms as options for different cases .
I'm like I'm , I'm hinted at it , like I'm like I don't really want anything else . Every now and then I get a little like what I don't know , that's that's plenty to keep up with too there . It is , it is .
So how , like when you joined Pro , as you mentioned , you're in the weeds of like figuring things out . Business is a little messy . There's a lot you don't know and you're still early into the game . I mean even this spring . What was it ? A couple of years you were into it .
Yeah , just yeah , I'm right at two years .
Okay , so what has been ? Let's just dive right into like what . How you evolved as a business owner because that's been one of the coolest things Like the way you almost like respect yourself as a business owner , has changed with how you value your time .
You had mentioned leading up to this that you had a situation recently where you had a was it a potential client who was almost taking advantage of your time and you you had some . I guess it seems like you're a little more confident in how you conduct yourself . Can you speak to that situation in particular ?
Absolutely yeah . So when I first started it was like just take any client , which is still somewhat kind of where I'm at because I'm so new .
But as I've become more confident and like the business course , so I did the original business course and then it wasn't long after that you put out the second version and I was like okay , I'm going back through and it was so good . It was so good .
There was so many things in there that really did give me the confidence to say , okay , this is how I run my business and I am the owner of my business , so I get to choose . Like I'm not an employee , like I get to choose who I work with , and so I was taking all these things that I had learned through the course .
And then there's sometimes that , like I forget , so I'm able to go in the community that's what I love about the community , like questions that are answered in the course that either you or someone else is like , oh well , look in there , and there's like this great search function .
You're like typing in , you're like , oh yeah , yeah , yeah , that's right , that's right , this is how I need to handle the situation , yeah , and so , yeah , so I , I actually have a client now and he's on a very limited budget , and so I was like , okay , since you're on a limited budget , like I , really I have a heart for new business owners .
Like I , I love small business , I love this is a purpose driven business , and like I am all in for these purpose driven small businesses . And so I was like , look , you're on a budget .
That's fine , cause I gave a regular proposal which your stuff is great for teaching how to do that Like I didn't know how to really offer a proposal , but now I do , so awesome . So I did a proposal . It was a little out of his price range . He's young , just starting out in his business , and I said , well , look , this is what we can do .
I can do a templated version where I just kind of fill in , change colors , change fonts , put your stuff in there . There will have to be some tweaks , you know , just because the more copy you have , you have to move things around , you know that kind of thing , so , anyhow . So I did that .
I've had a hard time with him responding and I do think it's probably a generation difference , just in the in , maybe the platforms we use to communicate and that . So , anyhow , just waiting and all of that kind of thing just became very frustrating to me , and so at first I was like , oh , how do I deal with this ? And then I was like you know what ?
This is a learning experience , and this is what I really talk this whole year up to is I'm learning through walking through clients , and I think it's really hard to know how you're going to handle things until you walk through something that's challenging .
So then you can back up and say , okay , I didn't like how this was , I didn't , I didn't like how it made me feel , and so I need to change something on my side that is so I'm able to communicate more effectively to my potential clients .
So let them know this is how I work as a business owner and I just want to make sure that we're a good fit , like I . I think you use like the potential client , like I have used that potential client page . I have done all kinds of things to make it really show . Okay , this is the kind of web designer I am .
This is the kind of online digital strategist I am . This is how I communicate , this is how I work and very systematic because I have systems now , because of your courses . Like , I have systems and I want to make sure that you can work within those boundaries and you're kind of weeding clients out to make sure they're a fit too right ?
I mean , it's about you , but it's also making sure that they know what to expect and they're in line with you , Right .
So I literally made a video of these are the things that I'm going to go through on our discovery call . You don't have to have the answers to everything , but just so that you'll . Just so you'll know .
This is how I'm making sure that we're going to be a good fit , and I just got to the point where it's like it's not just about taking on any client , it's about taking on the right client . So , that both of us can feel like we're coming out of it successfully .
Can we ? Are you cool if we link your potential client page ? Yeah , yeah .
I have my prices and stuff on there . I know there's lots of back and forth like should I share my prices , should I not ? But I'm like you know what I really just want them to know , like this is where I start at yeah .
That's the beauty about a potential client page . For anyone who doesn't know , if you haven't been inside of WebZenner Pro through my business course yet , what I teach is you have a potential client page that is hidden Like you wouldn't know it's there unless you get a lead through the door , and then they're questionable .
So you send them this page , which could be a different version of your home page , but it has your pricing , your potential client page . One thing I love about you that what you have is that you have a video that says are we a good fit ? Yeah , and that is such a perfect .
It's like so clear , let's make sure both parties are going to be set up for success here . You have a traditional package with your rates and then a subscription package . So , yeah , I love , love , love seeing this in action , because you've taken what I did and just kind of made of your own . So well done on you , jennifer , to be able to guide clients .
I mean , I know that's been a huge part of the success you've had recently . Going back to that situation with your your the younger guy who was dragging his feet Is that still in the works or did you finish ?
that he finally responded and I you know I was actually talking to a friend today Um , like , I struggle a little bit , probably just because my own things I bring into . Uh , my business , like being direct , is not being angry .
Um , and so I I like had to tell myself , like , just because I was being direct in the um email , that I was trying to say , okay , these are the things we went over in our zoom call , because we went through , kind of we fought . When we finally got connected , we went through everything , went through the edits that need to be made .
And then he wanted some other changes , and so I was like , okay , your budget allowed for this , and so I can continue down this road and make the edits we talked about , or I can do a new proposal , which is something that you guys suggested , and then we can , you know , revisit that and see how long that will take , and then we can make it what you want
, so that you know . So I gave him a choice , like it's great the way it is , but if you want it a certain way , it's changed now not to a template , that's site to the web .
And that's I know . You were up on a hot seat recently in web center pro for one of our weekly calls and , yeah , that was the situation . That's so common with template sites is they become custom sites really quick . A client's like oh , actually , can we do the image there and can we add this copy here ? Can we add another page with this ?
Oh , I'd like to add a store too . Or can we do a calendar ? I'd like to be able to post blogs . It's like okay , now we're past , like a custom , like we're in like the middle tier right . Like $5,000 range or $10,000 range . So , yeah , really , really common . But you're , you did exactly right , jennifer . You give options .
It's like , well , we could either do add ons and retainer style work ongoing . You could phase it out if they don't have the budget , or you could just upgrade to the custom route , and sure we could . You know , let's say they've already paid a grand .
Well , we could just bump it up to the $3,000 price range and finish off the rest if you want to , because that's actually a bit of a sales , not a sales trick , I'd say .
But it's almost like an up sale option when you do a template site , because the thing about template sites that I've learned now being I did not do template sites , but what I've seen with a lot of my students is that they are like the , the testing ground , because you're also using that time to forge a relationship and start to learn , like they're learning
about you . And if , if this client's like , oh my gosh , working with Jennifer is awesome , yeah , I now I trust you to invest $5,000 or $10,000 . Right .
Right .
So that seems to be pretty common , so that you did a . Really that's such a great job on that . And again , for everyone who wants to check it out , we'll have it linked in the show notes . But it's Jenny Lane designscom slash potential dash client to check out your potential client page . I love to see that .
On that , I love seeing you know the framework that I did in my business and laid out in the course , but to see your flare on it is really cool . You had another situation too , uh , that really kind of bordered along the lines of boundaries and like really respecting your time . Do you want to kind of share about that too ?
I thought that was really interesting because I've seen you . I think they like didn't show up for a discovery call multiple times .
Yeah , for sure .
It's just what was really cool about that is like that shows like maturing as a business owner , when you start to respect your time . And to your point , Jenny , before you dive into that , it's not that you're being mean or overly assertive , but you do need to be uh , what was the word you used earlier ?
Like , um , I guess assertive might be the right word Like you do need to almost remove the personal aspects and like treat this like a business , which it is . You have to almost be like you know the boss version of you , Right , Um , but yeah .
Yeah , I have a potential client and , like any web designer , before they meet with a client , if a if a client already has a website , you kind of go take a peek , see what's going on there . See , you know what's going to be required to either rebuild or revamp or whatever . And so you spend a little bit of time doing that and coming up with some ideas .
I have lots of notes . So I mean , I probably spent 15 , 20 minutes , maybe 30 already doing that . And then , uh , so we were supposed to meet , and last Friday , and then she canceled like last minute , maybe an hour or two before the meeting , and so I was like , that's fine , we can reschedule .
Uh , so I rescheduled her for Monday , and then there was a time uh distance time , uh time zone thing , and so that didn't work out and so I was like , that's fine , we'll reschedule . Um , and so I rescheduled A third time , which was wins no , yeah , wins yesterday . So , um , and then she didn't show up .
Wow , didn't show up , straight , didn't show up .
So I was like , okay , red flag , red flag , red flag , you know so . But she seemed like a really good client and she came from a referral , which is a great referral . Uh , so at first I was . I started typing out an email , said you know , we had a meeting this morning at eight . Uh , didn't work out . I'm so sorry .
It looks like maybe we're just not going to be a good fit , and so that's where it was headed . And then I kind of stood back and I was like , okay , maybe there was a legitimate reason . Something happened .
I was like , but I also need to respect my time and I want her to understand that , like , our time is valuable , it is , and I have a lot going on . So I deleted that and I said , look , I understand , things happen . Um , however , since we've missed three meetings , which seems like a lot , um , I'll have to move you into my paid discovery um session .
And so I gave her the link to that and it just automatically um goes through where she can make the payment . And I was like , oh , she's probably not going to reach back out to me . Um , so , and I did tell her and I was like look , if you end up doing the project with me . I will apply that towards your project .
Um , so that's not like totally lost and it's for an hour . So , and surprisingly , she responded back . She was like now , how much is that ? Again ? I couldn't find that . So , uh , she was very apologetic , like I'm so sorry , I've never missed meetings like this before , and so you know , things happen , things happen .
I understand that , um , but it also like allowed me to be like okay , well , I'm at least going to get paid for the time I've already invested in the time .
Well , it's such a great little case study example of respecting your time as a business owner , treating that situation with really like you don't need to be emotional about it . You just have a plan . It's like if somebody misses , which three times , is very gracious , I would say like two times would be the time for a paid discovery call .
Some people may even do one miss , but you know , situations do happen , life does happen . But yeah , in that case I would probably just , yeah , make that and I'm sure you've learned from this . You make it a standard rule .
If somebody misses two or three times , whatever the window is , uh , or stands you up completely like that happened on a call , then the only option to talk to you from there is a paid discovery call . And , to your point , that can , that can be applied to the project If it's a $99 call or 200 or whatever the price is .
But um , that will not only will that weed out the people who are not a good fit and you don't even need to talk to them , but it also it just shows like a little legitimacy in the people who do feel really bad are going to be like , wow , jennifer is legit , like this isn't somebody who's messing around and it sets the precedent and the foundation for ,
like , a healthy relationship , client relationship , moving forward .
Because you'd imagine and I've had this happen before early on it's like if somebody gets used to just ghosting you or you're like a low priority for them and they're like I had a call with Josh , but I'd rather do this this afternoon , um , then what's going to happen when it comes to content , collection and feedback and deadlines and and moving forward , like all
those things are going to be predicated on them almost in a power struggle , but just , they can easily take advantage of you , even if it's not intentional . So I love , love , love what you've done here and now you know what to do , moving forward , if it happens again .
I'm like , yeah , I feel so much more confident as a business owner than I did in January or February . You know , I felt like I was kind of flailing around and the thought process of me potentially not have joined your community Really just I mean , I can't believe that .
I almost didn't , because now I'm like I don't care what else is happening , like this membership is important . Like I'm like that even on Thursdays when we have our little hangout , the pro hangout , like that is carved out , like it's almost like it's a paid situation .
Like I get so much value from hanging out with other web designers that can speak my language and then I can ask questions and I don't feel silly because I'm not at the same level that someone else is , and they respond in a way that's respectful and kind and like that they want to teach and they want you to learn and I just get so much out of this
community . Okay , there's just so much value . There's more value than what you , what I'm financially putting in .
So that's so gosh . I mean you're like you've given me , I think , 12 testimonials over the past months and even this conversation .
Just hearing , like , hearing how , what the hard work that has gone into pro , like to see it actually , like you know , go to you and other members and how it's it's working Through your , through your business and through your life , is just so amazing .
I see , I really I so appreciate you voicing that publicly and just seeing what it's doing for you and it really is , I mean , the goal of all that Community is awesome and it's wonderful to have information resources , but at the end of the day , like the transformation to see somebody Become a business owner and like enjoy running their business and like said ,
waking up early , being excited to learn and apply , that is what is just the coolest . Coolest thing is is what that you know fruit is Is going towards . So , gosh , it's so awesome .
But , to your point , like you you have you should give yourself a lot of credit for like applying Everything you're learning and doing and you are Active and you are joining the calls and it really I learned this in my networking group the people who would go there and the takers who would want to referral first day and be upset if they didn't get a referral .
And then they came a couple other times and they're like yeah , it's just not worth my time , it's kind of early , no wonder it didn't work out .
But the people who were giving and the people who committed to it and who were serious and and really Not only understood the value but made sure that what was there like they made sure to apply it , those were the people who thrive and that goes with . That's just a one-on-one for anybody who joins a course , joins a community .
But yeah , to see , like to see your journey , progress already I mean , you haven't even been in pro a year and I feel like you're a whole different person from the first , even the way you talked , even the way you talked in messenger , when the first couple times it was a bit like you were just kind of scattered and just trying to figure out .
But you're like , now you're talking . Now you have , like you know your price Systems . Now the conversation is to like well , how do I refine my best clients and keep getting best clients and then up my rates versus like yeah , how do I ?
Before I was like Nitching and I need to do this and this , but I'm like you know what ? I think my niche is not what , like what you do or what you know . Is it a plumber , is it electrician , is it a hair salon ? Like that's not my niche . My niche is my customer .
Like my niche is someone that communicates well , that Is responsive , like that's my niche , because that's how I work best and that's how I can deliver the best to my client .
So yeah , just let's dive into that , because you yeah , you don't work with a certain industry Right now .
You're working with different industries , but you have learned to kind of niche by personality type , which is so fascinating because in this , in this world , where niching is such a hot topic , a lot of people say , niche by a certain avatar , like client avatar . You could do it by industry . You do it by project types .
Some people niche by just doing who commerce sites , or just doing Shopify sites or just doing Non e-commerce sites or certain marketing elements , but you're niching my personality type , which I feel like that's almost a level back . I think that's probably hard to do initially .
So I actually think , yeah , I don't even know if it's possible , necessarily because you may not be sure of your services or what you want to do . So , but this is a really good time for everyone to think about , like , what type of people do I want to work with ?
And if you've been at it for any amount of time , it could be six months or it could be six years and you realize I know my service as well . To your point , jennifer , you know your tools , you have your tool stack , you have the training , the community education you need , the coaching you need in pro . You've got all your bases covered .
Now it's about you and your clients , and how do you create a business that you love showing up for , they love waking up for and that Gives you life rather than drains you ? So I just love that you like this is the focus now Moving forward . But how are you doing that ? Is that the potential client page , are you ?
I mean , you're getting a good feel for clients , but , as you said , you know you didn't expect that one client to miss two calls and then ghost you on one . So how are you niching by personality ?
so Basically , like you said , like it's hard to do that in the very beginning because you don't know Really what your clients going to do . So to me it's been the way I'm doing .
That is , by having clients and realizing , okay , this is a personality type that I Am not working the best with and it's not always about a needy client , oh , that's not , that's not gonna be a great client . Like I don't mind a needy client because it means they're communicating with me .
So Just that , even those first interactions , like how quickly they respond , like I'm in my email every day , all day , probably more than it should be , because I have ADHD and I have a thousand tabs open and I'm popping back and forth . But I like customer service has always been a huge , huge thing to me .
Like it doesn't matter if you're at Walmart , it doesn't matter if you're like the CEO of some fortune 500 , like Like when I walk into a restaurant and I see the manager like cleaning things . Like to me that brings value to the place that I'm at and so it doesn't matter where you are .
You can be kind , you , you can be responsive , you know , you can be clear . Clarity is kindness , like all of those things are very important to me and as I Work with each client and I'm getting a feel for , okay , this is how responsive they are or this is how much hand-holding they need I'm kind of making mental notes to myself .
Like , okay , if I see this again and really it takes a lot of , and I think probably some of my background in reading people through interpreting Kind of plays into this like you have to really see a person beyond what the superficial or Just the first layer that you first initially have when you meet them . Like it's a lot of different things .
Can I interject right there ? How do you ? How do you do that If you're just on a phone call or just via email , because I imagine you don't want to do a bunch of discovery calls To weed people out . I mean , that's the purpose of the potential client page is to alleviate Having like 10 calls with people who maybe none of them are a good fit .
How are you doing that through email and via phone calls ?
Yeah , so , um , basically , I have I for the discovery call . I have them fill out a short little form . It's a little bit longer than just their name and email , so they can just do a name and email intake .
But when they get to the discovery call , that means they have some intention , like they really want to talk to me about Web design and they've seen my prices and they've you know . So they've seen what I'm offering . And so there's a few more questions that I ask , like what would a big win be for you ?
So it's something that's more Like can you internalize what you need and can you put it back out to me ? Can you communicate that back out to me ? What's a big ? You know ? What would be a great win ? What do you feel like is like oh , you know , and I use those words what's a big in your business , right ?
now , that's cool .
Yeah , so I have several questions , questions like that not overwhelming , you know , because you just ask a thousand questions on a questionnaire like that but I just have a few questions that kind of give me a feel for the kind of client , how they respond to me and how quickly they respond to me .
You know , I don't expect my clients to be like at my beck and call by any means , but there are certain parts of the project where you're like I need you to be on , I need you to check this today Because we're moving forward and so I can kind of see that through the discovery , even the intake form for them , they even get on a call with me and so
that's been very helpful to me .
And you said even in your website , you , you , your tagline or I think it's in your tagline and bio and pro is that you help Purpose driven business owners . So I imagine business owners , well , that have some heart in their business , like , how do you identify that ?
Is it the type of industries that generally lead to like heartfelt or heartfelt business owner or business because you're working with Profits . Do you work with nonprofits at all ? Okay so yeah , like how do you identify ? I guess the question is how do you identify a purpose driven business owner ?
Yeah , so usually at somebody that's super passionate about their business and growing their business for a purpose .
So , like I did a hair salon earlier this year and that was like my first really big website and I don't think I would have had the confidence to sell myself- on that website , had I not been in pro because , like , it was probably my biggest site .
But if she's a hair salon owner , however , the way I see her Really wanting to grow her team and the passion she has behind , like , almost like a community sense , it's not just all about the money . For me , you know , it's about how do I make the world I'm in , like my sphere of influence , a better place .
So that , to me , is purpose driven and I and I need passion . Like I'm a passionate girl and I'm , when I'm working on a website , I pour everything I have into it . Like I think I made a post this past week . I was like I'm all in , like you're not gonna get halfway , jennifer .
Like I'm an all-in girl and so I need to work on a project that's all in , that has purpose behind it . I have a potential website coming up next year , for it's a nonprofit that helps , like police officers and people have been in the military and Helps them like after the fact , like helps them process through maybe even into retirement .
Helps them process through like what kind of life They've lived and how they live after the fact . Like things like that , like that Can change somebody's life for the better and not leave them just kind of left in a yeah . Oh , like , those things are super important to me , like .
I love . I love that and honestly , even just by stating I Serve purpose driven business owners , that right there will bring you . Majority of your leads are gonna be much more pre-qualified just with a line of messaging on your site versus somebody who is like Revenue , top , you know , top-line profit , that's it , don't .
I don't care who we turn and burn , this is the most important thing . Like , yeah , probably not an ideal fit for you , but that's somebody who does have a passion behind it . That , yeah , that that makes a ton of sense , that it's like the first level of a weed out .
And then , if they get the , your potential client page and everything else , then it's very likely you're already attracting people who , even before they come through the , the initial like intake form and your potential client page , they're already probably pre-qualified .
So this it's a really good case study of how messaging and copy and knowing your company , knowing your vision , knowing the people you want to work with , can really help with this . And you're at a really cool point because you've I'm to your credit there like said a little bit ago , you've worked at this , I know you're business .
Yeah , we're constantly iterating , like I know your website didn't look like this in March . But all that to say , it doesn't take that long to get to this point when you level up pretty quickly with a foundation like you , a little bit of copy , getting some vision for yourself , knowing your tool stack , knowing your services once you get to that place .
And then and the point I'm trying to make is I want everyone to really start thinking about your ideal client way sooner than you think you should .
And it doesn't mean you need to completely niche off everybody else and only go to one industry , but , like you're doing , purpose-driven business owners are a good fit for you because you are a all-in , purpose-driven web designer . That might need to be your new email tag line . But yeah , it's so cool , that's really cool .
I was actually thinking even for corporate brands . I think it was WeatherTech . I think it's like who make , like , the mats for trucks and stuff ? You're in Iowa , right ? I'm sure you guys have .
Yeah , yeah .
WeatherTech stuff out there . Yeah , we do . I remember this vividly . A few years ago we were looking at which I still I never . I think I need to buy some more . They have like a golden their owner was a golden retriever owner and I am too and I think they had one that had passed away from cancer and they have like a donation thing on their site .
It might still be a let me look real quick , I think it might still be up but I remember that like even that was a good example of like there's , there's something else . I mean , obviously you know , weathertech isn't around just for golden retriever donations , but that is something that humanizes it and makes it more authentic and gives a little more personality .
And and , yeah , like it's kind of a why behind the brand yeah , yeah , yeah , they do . They have shop pets , so they have like a whole line of products now for WeatherTech pet stuff . Can you speak to that Like ? You are a why girl , can you ?
I think this is so important in web design nowadays , especially in the age of AI , where there's a lot of junk , like pushed out content that's similar or just blah , but it's got all kinds of things Robots can't articulate . A why Can you share like do you feel like having a why and making that so clear on your website ?
As a web designer , do you think that's gonna be a big differentiator ?
to help web designers nowadays . For sure , like I love AI . Like I love AI , I'm one there all the time . I'm one chat to you all the time . However , because I'm one there all the time , I see there is a flatness about it .
That's a good term , flatness .
Yeah , I mean it produces some great stuff that you can tweak and make it your own and it's been very helpful in my business . But I would say we as the human race , connect with people . We don't connect with two-dimensional things .
You know we , like I loved in the very beginning when I was I can't remember what course I was going through at the years just talking about people , connect with people and you know that creates that no-like-and-trust factor and so I mean that really propelled me to put myself more on my website than just like stock photos .
You know , like I'm a real human and I really care about you , I really care about your business . On one of your recommendations to join like a local referral group , I joined the B&I and I have loved it .
Oh good .
Yes .
And so last week or the week before , I can't remember they had us kind of pair up and give the other person like a positive thing about that person , like what did they see about that person , and I was so flattered by what the person that I was paired up with I didn't even know very well , I've only been in it like two , three months and he said you
know , it was about taking compliments and being able to receive compliments , and so I was just supposed to say thank you and I appreciate that . And so he said you really care about your clients and you can tell that by what you say every week , that you truly care about seeing other people succeed .
And so I feel like , when you have that kind of why behind you , like you can't replicate that on AI . You know , Like you have to bring yourself into it , which is not always easy . First , I'm in the middle of introvert .
Extrovert , Like I like to be by myself a lot , but I also like people , and so you have to really put yourself out there , and that's not always easy for somebody that would rather just be behind the screen doing their thing .
But a website is kind of almost an easier way to do that , because you can do it without having to actually physically put yourself out there . Yeah , that's well said .
That is so well said . I don't want to overlook that point . It's so important .
Yeah , if you are very introverted by nature , if you get your why across on your website and get an image of you , or if you're feeling wild enough to make a video , like you've done , like with your Good Fit video , and I think you have a video on your homepage too you don't have to do that again In sales call like . You don't need to sell .
So everyone who's introverted actually if you think putting yourself out there on your site is like if that's going to make things worse , actually it makes things way better because you don't have to do that again and by the time somebody comes to your contact form , they likely already know like and trust you . So you don't need to sell at all .
All you need to do is sit behind the screen and get the proposal out .
And they know how you communicate .
They know how you talk .
They might . Some people might say , oh , she's a southern girl , so I'm going to .
I like her , yeah let's talk to a southern girl . I can handle that . Let's talk about that getting your authentic self , like your real self , on your website , because you do come from a really fascinating background . I mean talk about it why .
I mean I know you have such a drive and a desire and a passion for helping for the deaf , especially deaf business owners , which is amazing . We just recently had Julia Taylor on talking about grant funding . Did you listen to that yet , by chance ?
Not yet , Like it's all mine to do today .
Because I guess by the time this goes live , we're about a month out . On podcasts , I would be shocked if you didn't have a grant already for for because of your mission to help deaf business owners , like that is . That is amazing and so worthwhile .
And and I want to publicly say thank you to Jennifer because we have we're serving a member of what was on a pro who's deaf right now and he was messaging me and was really hesitant because he's like do you have , like am I going to be able to utilize my membership and pro ?
And I was like we actually have a member who comes from that world and and could probably connect with you and I have to . I just want to say publicly thank you because you did a call with him and signed and and like he came into pro based off of I mean , you were a huge part of him feeling comfortable to come to pro .
So thank you .
Thank you for that . I mean what a what an amazing , what an amazing way to use your , your background to this point , so to that , like you you have , you have passion and and the in the deaf community to help deaf business owners .
Your purpose driven business owner , adhd , you know , your Southern girl all these things come across on your site Like can you tell us about how that's helped ? I guess the question is , how has getting your your true self , all the aspects of that , helped you reel in the good clients that that , like that ?
Yeah , yeah .
Resonate with that .
So well , first of all , it's like walking into that and accepting , like this is who I am , you know , and not apologizing for who I am , Um , because I come from a lot of different things . Like I yeah , I had I have deaf family . Um , that really pretty much made me who I am , Like that's why I sign , it's why I have a passion for the deaf community .
It's it's like my grandparents , were deaf . Right Is that right ?
My grandparents were deaf and I have several aunts and an uncle that are deaf , and then , uh , my niece is hard of hearing , so deafness is a generational thing in our family , and so I grew up signing , like , as a baby , my grandmother kept me uh , my deaf grandmother kept me , as my parents were working and we lived right next door to her .
So , like it's part , it's who I am , um , it's just ingrained in me . And , and my deaf family are deaf professionals , like they went to college and got upper level degrees and were successful in their in the workforce , and so I know that deaf can , and so I am not willing to settle for , uh , they can't do it . No , no , they can .
Sometimes it's like you just need . I feel like I'm the connector . I I'm not here to take over by any means , but if I can somehow help you navigate worlds that maybe you don't have a connection to , then let me help you .
Like I literally just hopped on a call and it was somebody I met through B and I a VR person through B , and I connected me to a deaf person in the VR who connected me to a new marketing . He just graduated , uh , with a marketing degree . He's deaf and he's trying to figure out how to get his business going and how to build a website .
And so I I'm a teacher at heart and so I'm like whatever you need me to help you with , who you need me to help you connect with , like I built a website for a deaf book author and so I'm like I think she probably would be very grateful for any service that you could help , so connect them . They're supposed to be meeting sometime this week .
Like all of those things are , um , it's just , and it's not because I'm anything special , it's just because of what I've been brought up in , and so it has given me a passion Like what is my part to play in this world , where I'm at , when I'm here ? Like what is my part to play and how can I help you know it just and that brought In different places .
It's like broadens my scope of who can be helped . And it's not like help in the sense of , oh , I have to do this for you . It's helping like how can I teach you to be able to navigate things on your own ? I don't know .
It's such a great way to build trust and likability too .
Like I found that just being open about not only my past being a drummer and being in a rock band but also my present with being a family man and being a dad of a daughter with special needs Like that's actually broadened A lot of people who come into my world who resonate with that , and in fact , one of our newest members of Pro went through something
where a child had surgery and then needed emergency surgery and it just like a fire in her that she wanted freedom . She was in the corporate job and she didn't want to have to talk to a boss to try to request time off during that . Like she wanted freedom .
And I've learned like talking about lifestyle freedom has attracted lifestyle freedom entrepreneurs rather than like the broperners who are all you know yeah , yeah like they just want . You know certain yeah , it's all about numbers and profit and whatever .
Like you know those there are tangible things in revenue that we need to look at and we need to be business owners , but not to lose the why and not to overlook the heart part of business and passion .
It's actually a really great reminder about this to not lose and not overlook why you do what you do and the reason for this and the goal , because it can easily be overlooked when you're either busy or swamped or stressed or if things are Like this year has been I've had plenty of challenges this year and part of me did .
I almost stopped thinking about some of the why when I was just trying to hustle just to keep things going Like it's really easy to overlook the why , but it's always a good reminder to take a step back , think about that and , more importantly , to get that across on your site . Like you're a perfect example .
Going back to the question , like I imagine it's evident already that you're bringing in people who are like-minded . At least Are you also are you bringing in people in the Deaf community ? And I don't know if you're intentionally marketing or is- .
Yeah , I'm basically making myself available . I know there are Deaf web designers and I would almost like push them to Deaf web designers so that we can keep growing that ecosystem as well . But , if I can , you know if they like my style better , because , just like a hearing web designer , you might like one hearing web designer or another one .
You know , it's the same idea . It's like who do you work best with and who do you connect best with ? But yeah , I've had I've already done one website for a Deaf business owner . I have another one that's supposed to be coming up doing a landing page for him , and so and it's basically it's about that connection .
It's not like , oh , I'm hearing , oh , I'm Deaf . You know , it's a connection . I just happen to have a language that I can communicate both with sign and my voice , and so I'll use whichever thing that I , you know , need to do to be able to help .
Yeah , business owners , they're just such an underserved community and anything that I can do , it doesn't like I don't need my name on anything , I just anything like even if I can refer them to someone that I know , like if I can refer them to our Deaf web designer in our group , like so that they can have that they don't have that in-between person .
Working through an interpreter is very hard . And so if they can have somebody they can just work straight with , that is super valuable Okay .
Your background . You were in the signing world for so long . What I guess , how cool is it right now to be in this new season of life and chapter with your business ? I mean this year , 2023 , this may come out in January , so beginning of 24 . But so we might be talking past tense now .
But 2023 , what I mean a huge shift for you , I imagine both business and person . Like , how I guess , how cool is it to be in this situation where , like you , have a foundation to a thriving web design business that you know , I don't know what the If there is a revenue goal or a mission behind it ?
But I mean you could really I guess now it's probably like vision casting right . Like , how cool is it to be in this spot that you're in ?
Yeah , I have lots of things that I want to do . It's usually raining my thoughts in , like I just- .
I have this vision of building courses for the deaf that are like straight like , not closed caption , because a lot of people have this misconception that closed caption is the answer for deaf people and , while it is super helpful , it's not like the first go-to for somebody that signs , for someone that signs to be able to get the direction and straight sign and ,
you know , be able to see it while there's somebody signing . That's way better . So it's just like how can I bring a community in and be super collaborative ? Maybe it's not even me designing the course , maybe it's , you know , just working together with the deaf community Somehow .
I don't know , I don't know exactly what that is , but , yeah , a lot of vision casting , a lot of dreams that I have and just wanting to serve the community . Well , yeah , which is possible ?
I mean it's really cool because you've been serving the deaf community for years , but now it's at a different it's a different way .
A different way , yeah , because now you're like , instead of just helping them understand something , you're helping them , like , build something , potentially , yeah , as a business owner , as an entrepreneur , because really , at heart , you're an entrepreneur .
I mean , you're a web designer , a web strategist , but you are 100% when I dub the webpreneur I could talk about in the business course .
I don't know when you went through that lesson .
I imagine you were pretty quickly like , okay , I'm owner , or I'm heading , I'm becoming an owner and then , very quickly , you're going to be the webpreneur who has a course on circle along with your web design business , just like a lot of pros .
There's some shock about how many web designer pros are like the webpreneurs like Steve and April , who of course is , and others who are like doing things outside of just being a web designer , which is that's what's so cool about this world .
I often joke that the first time I ever sold anything that I recall was in the first grade . I sold paper hats and paper boats to my classmates for five and 10 cents , and so I actually kind of brought that into one of my speeches at B&I and I passed paper round . I didn't really tell what I was doing and I had them .
I wanted them to make a paper hat . I was in shock that half of them didn't know how to make a paper hat and I was like , well , maybe I did have an industry back then and they for sure couldn't make a paper boat , so I had to teach them how to do that . So yeah , so my entrepreneurial journey probably started way back in the first grade .
And I feel like I'm always . When somebody tells me a good idea , I'm like , well , let's see , how could we monetize that ? And not only about the money per se , but money does make the world go round .
Yeah , yeah . And if you want to support yourself and actually have an endeavor to fund , then yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .
My goal is to earn enough to be able to help our family and then be able to help people that I'm passionate about and try to help serve communities that I'm super passionate about . So I'm not money driven in the sense of I want a lot of things , but the freedom that you talk about is super important to me .
I'm a new grandmother and I want the freedom to be able to hop in my car and drive over to my grandbaby's house . I want the freedom to be able to help people that need business websites and just be able to help people Like that is my passion .
And honestly , I found , like with a push towards a certain revenue goal , or getting into hustle mode occasionally to like to build up funds , that those are the things , while it may seem counterintuitive because like it's a little less freedom for a time , but you create more freedom if you do have six months saved up and you're like I don't need to take on as
many projects right now or I could be three months booked out if I wanted to , and it's fine . That's where , like the , I think a lot of entrepreneurs find this out of . They're like I'm not really worried about money , but you can have freedom unless you have the financial backing to have the freedom .
That's actually maybe that's going to be my next brand is like to help freedom based entrepreneurs think about money .
Yeah , like it's not evil , greedy capitalism .
It's like . This is practical . Yeah , the mortgage company is not going to be like you know what ? You're a passion based person . It's all right , don't worry about it . No , they're going to be like give me my freaking money . So , yeah , that's so cool . I just , I really just I love your story , jennifer .
I love the journey I've seen you take even up to this point . I mean , my gosh , the sky is the limit with you . I cannot wait to see what you do in 2024 .
I think by this , I think by the end of 2024 , you're going to be yeah , you'll probably have like the course for the deaf business owners and I don't know if you have dreams of scaling Jenny Lane designs , but of course , that's what's coming up next in pro is the scaling resources and , yeah , my gosh , this has just been so cool .
I've really enjoyed this to kind of to pick in on some of the really important aspects of what you've done , including the boundaries . I really like not I don't want to say self respect , but just respecting yourself as a business owner , which is a very big mindset shift compared to when you start out .
That is not a you know . Take on any projects .
Yeah .
But you know , one thing I do want to add about the community that I was not expecting and I did put this in my testimonial is the friendships , but also like you can't know everything about everything and you don't have the time and capacity to know everything about everything .
But there are so many resources in the community and , you know , a lot of times as a business owner I get a lot of spam email and you're like I would never send you stuff because I don't know you and I don't recognize your name .
But the people in the community that I've built relationships with , like I trust them and so I know I can without hesitation say , oh , this person does email marketing , I can get you there . Are they referred me to somebody that they trust , you know , and so that part of it is huge to me . Like I don't really know how to do commerce .
I mean I could go through the lessons but I don't know if that's really where I want to be . But I know that there's people in the group that like that's their thing and so I feel good about saying , hey , could you help me with this project ?
So I love that aspect of the community too , and I feel like 2024 is where I will be utilizing that even more than our cap .
Yeah , that's so well said . That's one thing I really need to do a better job and I have a lot of promotional ideas for pro . Just just to like it's almost hard to market because there's like so many amazing things about it .
I almost have to like chunk it out , to like like focus on focus on the community , focus on the courts , the coaching , like in different sections . Cause , yeah , there's just like there's so much I want to say .
I'm trying to figure out how to best get that across , but I think you've probably seen like you can talk about something all you want , but until you experience it , that's what it's just getting somebody through the door . And actually we've had a lot of members join recently and every one of them , it's .
One thing that's been really cool is , I don't know you've seen this , but in the introductions , when people do an introduction , the coolest thing is how many people say , like new members say this community is so welcoming , like it's so helpful .
All right , I've only been in two weeks and like I found my tribe , I found my crew and , to your point , like we're really at the point now with pro to where , at the time of recording this , we're at 169 members . I don't know if there's any gaps that aren't filled now with either trainings or courses . Of course we're going to .
I'm going to be coming out with a lot of more resources to really just kind of better put all the information together and make it more succinct and actionable . And then the people there's really not I can't think of anything that we can't figure out between somebody in pro , between email accessibility , speed , development , business strategy , mindset , whatever .
I mean . We've really got the full gamut . So it's very , really cool . And then you fill such an important role too on the deaf side of things and being like you are that you are .
Whether you realize it or not , you are becoming like my go-to for like , if you want to be a passion led business owner , web designer , and you want to get clients who are like minded , like you , like Jennifer , look at her site , look at what she's doing and look at her background , even like with with the deaf and stuff , so you , you fill a very , very
important role too . So so thank you for stepping in and doing that .
I love pro so much . And I feel like I just want to be a cheerleader in there , like it's just so great , all the people are amazing and just super positive and it's not like that fakey positive , it's like genuine . I want to see you succeed , which is the kind of community I want to be a part of .
Like I , I understand there's room for competition and all that kind of thing , but that is not what pro is to me , like it's collaborative and bridging and just a great place to be .
Even the people who are location central , like the people who , like we , do have a lot of members now , who , like we , have a lot of members around London , a lot of UKers even stateside . There's a few pro members now in Columbus or in central Ohio , but yeah , they're not competing with each other .
There are so many businesses , there's millions of businesses in central .
Ohio .
There's no need to be a competitor . You know , like of course we should partner up with each other and fill the gaps . That we don't want to do in our own businesses .
But , to your point , like and I think the camaraderie and pro that I found is also , I think , by nature , because it's both we're like in it to support each other and to grow our businesses at the same time . It reminds me so much of my networking group when we were just thriving because there were kind of two things on the line .
There was , like my business is on the line , so this is important to me . I am going to show up , I am going to get as much as I can , but also help , and then also to have the support when you are stuck or you have questions or you need some motivation or you want to support others .
As you know , that's one of the best feelings is like to help somebody out with a problem and then you see them make the progress . I'm sure you've seen a lot of pros to this point even in your time . Like to see their progress they're making is like .
Exciting yeah .
Yeah .
You understand that . Balloons all the time .
Yeah , balloons all the time . Well , we're going to . You can definitely wrap it now , because t-shirts are coming , hoodies are coming . I'm so excited . I know I'm coming to you so well .
Jennifer , thank you so much for your time and sharing about , yeah , just your journey and how you've matured as a business owner , how you've really reeled in a nice framework for weeding out clients to bring in the purpose you know heart led , passion , type of clients . It's been really , really cool . Again , I think 2024 is going to be huge for you .
So where should people go ? Where would you like people to go to connect with ? Are you active on certain socials ? Of course , we'll have your website linked .
Yeah , so yeah , I can definitely find me on jennylanedesignscom and it's lainecom , but I'm sure those will be in the notes . And then I'm on Facebook a lot . Yes , I'm the Facebook generation , instagram , and I love TikTok probably more than I should , so I do . I post on TikTok all the time Not daily like some people do , but I do .
I try to post tips to help business owners with their website , just things to consider and think about as they're working through their business , things that they need to just remember about their websites as well , because it's their online presence at 24-7 storefront .
So awesome . Well , I'm excited to help you branch into the webpreneur side of things too for this next phase , which I know is coming sooner than later . So thank you so much , jennifer . I'm so excited to be a part of your journey and to continue on , so thank you for sharing what's worked for you this year .
Awesome , thank you .
Well , friend , I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did having it . Jennifer is just such a prime example of how to build a business that is attracting good quality , like-minded people that you're working with . So , again , you enjoy your business . You enjoy your day , every day , every week .
That's what I want for you and that's what Jennifer has worked so hard at achieving with her business . I'm excited to help her go to the next level and I'm excited to help you as well . I would love to hear from you if this episode made an impact on you , on how you're thinking about attracting web design clients moving forward .
And again , as we talked about , this isn't something you're likely going to dive into . You know client number one it's .
You generally have to work through some clients to figure out what type of business and what type of client works for you , but it doesn't take long before you need to start really focusing and honing in on your ideal clients , and you don't need an itch just by industry . You can 100% by personality , type , and that's what Jennifer has done so well .
So I can't wait to hear from you on how this helps you out . Go to joshallco , slash 306 , to leave us a comment . I hope to see you in Web Designer Pro , where you can meet Jennifer and you can come alongside me and I can coach you directly , along with all the other Web Designer Pros , so that you can start attracting the perfect clients for you .
And again , I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode by going to joshallco , slash 306 . And if you'd like to send Jennifer a note , go to her website , jennylanedesignscom . That will be linked on the show notes as well . Thanks for joining friends .
Happy New Year and , man , we have some awesome stuff coming up in 2024 here , so make sure to subscribe and I'll see you on the next episode .